Micro 533: Restricted Great Idea Mafia (Game over)

[GuiltyLion]

Also Fro99er could you address my question to you in 73?

[Vedith]

Self-meta isn't exactly a good strategy. I typically read it as a scummy tactic. I do want to know where Silver is getting that quoted info though.

That's not so much self meta but more of a fact of me saying that his comment is void and only a null tell.
I think that he got it from a different game, as this seems to be something going around at the moment.

[Vedith]

Like why would you disregard the possibility of multiball when the mod listed three factions in the intro posts and the setup of restricted great idea mafia uses the mafia/alien deck?

Oh, I missed this.
So what are we assuming here? 1 faction has a kill possibly a solo player with another faction of 2 without a kill?

[Not_Mafia]

So that basically says there could be a

possibility

of being multi ball, but to be honest, I'd rather not speculate on that right this minute, we can leave that for day two once we have actions in, night kills to prove that theory before we can start speculating on that.

Talking about it now, doesn't offer anything and we may end up implicating people for the sake of guess work on setup.

Aka, what I said before the mod clarified. Thank you, captain obvious.

What's the point of this post?

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

Not much

[SilverWolf]

Leaning town on kop

Because?

grayfoxxxx-I asked you this two days ago.

[SilverWolf]

Vedith is also null but I think I read somewhere that he's more active and involved as scum.

I only have 1 scum game.
People try to meta me for me being active or not - that's null.

Self-meta isn't exactly a good strategy. I typically read it as a scummy tactic. I do want to know where Silver is getting that quoted info though.

I read it in an ongoing game I was asked to replace into. I can't say further at this time.

[SilverWolf]

Like why would you disregard the possibility of multiball when the mod listed three factions in the intro posts and the setup of restricted great idea mafia uses the mafia/alien deck?

Because I have never seen multiball in a 9 player game, exactly like I said. I have never played this set up before.

And then ASP went at length to explain it could be multiball and Wolfie doesn't comment on that?

What do you want me to say? Once he clarified it and the mod clarified it, I understood what was going on. There is no further reason for me to comment on it.

[Kop]

So I'm assuming that everybody makes a random vote and goes into lurking.

Lets start.

VOTE: Soren

As mentioned, the vote looks random. Is it random or was there a reason behind this?

It was random at the time that I voted. There was a lot of votes putting people on one votes, which didn't really prompt any discussion so I chose a name at random to put the person on 2, to at least possibly may react if he sees a possible wagon forming. Looking into his posts, I am fairly happy to take my vote of him right now.

UNVOTE: Soren

Really? They appear to be easy questions that doesn't require much effort to me. I agree on your second read though.

I agree that they are easy questions that do not require much effort, but my thinking last night was that they are also questions that are easy to

forget

to ask. They're questions that don't immediately jump out to me as something that needs explanation, but then I read them and think, "yeah, you know, that is something worth pressing on". So my first gut read interpretation is that lazy scum that's trying to blend in (and not truly solve the game) would take those posts that she questioned at the surface level and not bother to press for details.

That being said, I wasn't a fan of SilverWolf's vote in 79. It felt rushed and lazy, but if her thinking was along the lines of the question she posed in 91 then it makes a bit more sense.

Also her point about Not_Mafia in 87 firmed up my townread of her a little bit as well.

UNVOTE: , I don't want my vote here anymore at the moment.
--

I don't think speculating on the setup is entirely useless. We shouldn't be implicating people based on convoluted theories about multiple scum factions, but I think it's worth keeping in mind that we may be dealing with two entirely separate groups of scum, and so associative tells do not necessarily guarantee towncred should one person flip scum. I think Kop had a good point about waiting for NKs.

However, I very much agree with Frogger that 81 reads like scum talking about theory as an effort to look town. There was a lot of significant content between 55 and 81 and Kop commented on none of it, and asked questions about none of it.

VOTE: Kop -

This is L-2

Kop

, what do you think of the back and forth between A Simple Plan and me, and did it tell you anything about our alignments?

My one hesitation about this vote is that Not_Mafia was the first vote here.

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

The whole back and forth between you and ASP is relatively a lot about possible setups are within this game. I wouldn't really class that as a scum tell, so going to think along the lines that you are both town, simply because of the thought process involved in your little discussion. I have given it some thought about the setup, but I am not going to do it right now until we have night actions on day two to give us a better indication because in general we could waste a lot of time, effort and discussions into what the setup could be and we could be on the wrong path completely. I'm not trying to be captain obvious, I was just merely stating.

I am fairly confident on ASP, Fro99er, Wolf and yourself for town right now. I am null on grayfox, Vedith, but I'm concerned about Not Mafia.

I think I have participated once If I recall correctly with Not Mafia (I will have to go through my previous games, to see how he was but it was a while ago, so he may have changed his style since then). But so far from what I have seen, with the roleclaim first post, disappear, then his naked vote with a feeble excuse, I am not sure if he is coming into this game with a town mentality. I don't want this to feel like it's OMGUS, but I really don't get a town or null feeling about it. If it's his playing style for both town and scum, then what can we class it as in this game?

I think I'm happy with my vote here at the moment.

VOTE: Not Mafia

@Vedith, It's fair to assume plenty of things, nothing is concrete right now, until we see what happens over night. Then we can draw conclusions, over look day one and see what more information we can dig from what has been generated, wagons, vote patterns, etc.

[Vedith]

Yeah but I was more meaning anyone who has experience in this kind of setup can agree/disagree is that would be highly likely or not.

[Kop]

Yeah but I was more meaning anyone who has experience in this kind of setup can agree/disagree is that would be highly likely or not.

A lot of that could depend on Mod meta.

[Fro99er]

Because I have never seen multiball in a 9 player game, exactly like I said. I have never played this set up before.:

Well I just linked to a FOUR faction multiball game with 9 players.

[Fro99er]

Also Fro99er could you address my question to you in 73?

Making a note to answer this when off phone because I'll need to multi quote which sucks ass on mobile.

[Fro99er]

Like why would you disregard the possibility of multiball when the mod listed three factions in the intro posts and the setup of restricted great idea mafia uses the mafia/alien deck?

Oh, I missed this.
So what are we assuming here? 1 faction has a kill possibly a solo player with another faction of 2 without a kill?

No, the only thing we can assum is at least one scum faction has 2 or more members. There is no guarantee there are two scum factions though.

So 5-4 is a possibility or 5-3-1 or 5-2-2 or 6-3 or 6-2-1 or 7-2. As long as at least one scum faction has two or more members as stated in the rules.

[Fro99er]

Fun fact: The first randomisation of the setup generated five aliens and two mafia. Those pesky restrictions!

Like, do people not read the mod posts?

[Vedith]

Like why would you disregard the possibility of multiball when the mod listed three factions in the intro posts and the setup of restricted great idea mafia uses the mafia/alien deck?

Oh, I missed this.
So what are we assuming here? 1 faction has a kill possibly a solo player with another faction of 2 without a kill?

No, the only thing we can assum is at least one scum faction has 2 or more members. There is no guarantee there are two scum factions though.

So 5-4 is a possibility or 5-3-1 or 5-2-2 or 6-3 or 6-2-1 or 7-2. As long as at least one scum faction has two or more members as stated in the rules.

Yeah I guess reading properly would help.

[Soren]

Oh, maybe I misinterpreted the setup. I read the requirement that "there is at least one scum faction with 2 or more members" and thought that a setup with a scum faction of 2 and a scum faction of 1 is allowable.

But I realize now that if both have to have at least two members then it's very unlikely in terms of probability.

@mod - do any and all scum factions have to have at least 2 members?

Sorry if this is a newbie question

There's nothing to stop scum teams only 1 apart from general standard setups. I agree with whoever it was. There won't be multi in a 9 man setup.

Are you even reading the game and the setup information?

VOTE: Soren
Only one of her 4 posts says anything and it isn't really showing me much.
This is too UTR, safe type of play.

What's UTR? And no, I'm not playing it safe.
What made you pick me as oppose to not mafia and gray? Each of which hasn't really shown anyone much of what they think about the game.
And given that you've fallen onto voting for someone who hasn't posted much, are most of your reads on the others town/null or in other words, no scum reads?

UTR=under the radar and when you add in that your play is safe, that's the basis for a scumread. It's D1 without a lot to go on but that's where I'm at right now. I don't vote for completely null people as a rule unless I think that pressure will bring them into the game.

@Soren-why is it that you didn't like GL's read on me because you thought my questions were easy but were so willing to accept his read on ASP who has only posted 2 posts and is basically reading him as town for doing meta research. Why is meta research more townie to you than asking questions?

More effort is put into it which is town motivated.

So that basically says there could be a

possibility

of being multi ball, but to be honest, I'd rather not speculate on that right this minute, we can leave that for day two once we have actions in, night kills to prove that theory before we can start speculating on that.

Talking about it now, doesn't offer anything and we may end up implicating people for the sake of guess work on setup.

Uuugggh the quoted above by Kop sounds way too much like this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7141971

VOTE: Kop

I question that though. Some things that people say in their scum game are their actual thought process which is non alignment indicative. But just because they said that in their scum game you end up reading them scum for it. Why is this particular thought process scummy?

Really? They appear to be easy questions that doesn't require much effort to me. I agree on your second read though.

I agree that they are easy questions that do not require much effort, but my thinking last night was that they are also questions that are easy to

forget

to ask. They're questions that don't immediately jump out to me as something that needs explanation, but then I read them and think, "yeah, you know, that is something worth pressing on". So my first gut read interpretation

is that lazy scum that's trying to blend in

(and not truly solve the game) would take those posts that she questioned at the surface level and not bother to press for details.

You said you got a town lean from those questions but now you say that you have a lazy scum read on it?

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

I like this.

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

Not much

The is the thing about Not_mafia that makes it a displeasure to play with him. He doesn't even try in the game and he acknowledges his lack of effort but doesn't care to change it. However I feel like this play is pretty town. This is speaking from the top of my head, but unless he is onto something, I feel like there is a sense of carelessness in his town games. Like his read in his 88, I see him do that as town before.
= = = = = = = = = =
I feel like Kop's vote on not_mafia is going after an easy target. Not_mafia's play is so sketchy right now that it's so easy to pin him as scum simply based on a lack of town mentality. And I guess I'm slightly biased here too since I'm reading not_mafia as town. I would vote kop but that would put him at L-1 so I'm going to see what his response is first.

[Vedith]

@Soren, hopefully someone will also say about it. I don't think that 2 people is enough as confirmation.

[Soren]

Say about what?

[Vedith]

Never mind. I was just poking that Frogger already told me that I didn't read the details properly...

[GuiltyLion]

You said you got a town lean from those questions but now you say that you have a lazy scum read on it?

No, I still have a townlean on SilverWolf. What I was trying to say is that lazy scum would forget to ask those questions, which is why they are evidence of a town mindset to me. It's not something that is impossible for scum to fake, but the two things she questioned are easily digestible on the surface, so my theory is that scum looking to press on something confusing/scummy for towncred in the early game would likely push elsewhere.

I have more thoughts but I am phoneposting on the way to work so they'll have to come later during lunch. Just wanted to answer the direct question to me for now.

[Fro99er]

I feel like Kop's vote on not_mafia is going after an easy target.

100% this

[Kop]

Oh, maybe I misinterpreted the setup. I read the requirement that "there is at least one scum faction with 2 or more members" and thought that a setup with a scum faction of 2 and a scum faction of 1 is allowable.

But I realize now that if both have to have at least two members then it's very unlikely in terms of probability.

@mod - do any and all scum factions have to have at least 2 members?

Sorry if this is a newbie question

There's nothing to stop scum teams only 1 apart from general standard setups. I agree with whoever it was. There won't be multi in a 9 man setup.

Are you even reading the game and the setup information?

VOTE: Soren
Only one of her 4 posts says anything and it isn't really showing me much.
This is too UTR, safe type of play.

What's UTR? And no, I'm not playing it safe.
What made you pick me as oppose to not mafia and gray? Each of which hasn't really shown anyone much of what they think about the game.
And given that you've fallen onto voting for someone who hasn't posted much, are most of your reads on the others town/null or in other words, no scum reads?

UTR=under the radar and when you add in that your play is safe, that's the basis for a scumread. It's D1 without a lot to go on but that's where I'm at right now. I don't vote for completely null people as a rule unless I think that pressure will bring them into the game.

@Soren-why is it that you didn't like GL's read on me because you thought my questions were easy but were so willing to accept his read on ASP who has only posted 2 posts and is basically reading him as town for doing meta research. Why is meta research more townie to you than asking questions?

More effort is put into it which is town motivated.

So that basically says there could be a

possibility

of being multi ball, but to be honest, I'd rather not speculate on that right this minute, we can leave that for day two once we have actions in, night kills to prove that theory before we can start speculating on that.

Talking about it now, doesn't offer anything and we may end up implicating people for the sake of guess work on setup.

Uuugggh the quoted above by Kop sounds way too much like this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7141971

VOTE: Kop

I question that though. Some things that people say in their scum game are their actual thought process which is non alignment indicative. But just because they said that in their scum game you end up reading them scum for it. Why is this particular thought process scummy?

Really? They appear to be easy questions that doesn't require much effort to me. I agree on your second read though.

I agree that they are easy questions that do not require much effort, but my thinking last night was that they are also questions that are easy to

forget

to ask. They're questions that don't immediately jump out to me as something that needs explanation, but then I read them and think, "yeah, you know, that is something worth pressing on". So my first gut read interpretation

is that lazy scum that's trying to blend in

(and not truly solve the game) would take those posts that she questioned at the surface level and not bother to press for details.

You said you got a town lean from those questions but now you say that you have a lazy scum read on it?

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

I like this.

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

Not much

The is the thing about Not_mafia that makes it a displeasure to play with him. He doesn't even try in the game and he acknowledges his lack of effort but doesn't care to change it. However I feel like this play is pretty town. This is speaking from the top of my head, but unless he is onto something, I feel like there is a sense of carelessness in his town games. Like his read in his 88, I see him do that as town before.
= = = = = = = = = =
I feel like Kop's vote on not_mafia is going after an easy target. Not_mafia's play is so sketchy right now that it's so easy to pin him as scum simply based on a lack of town mentality. And I guess I'm slightly biased here too since I'm reading not_mafia as town. I would vote kop but that would put him at L-1 so I'm going to see what his response is first.

It may seem an easy target to you but you are clearly brushing it off as him playing as town. If he has done this in the past, do you believe that he may do the same thing as scum, and ride this all the way to the bank? Because it will be brushed off as his town town play. If he is going to play like that it's anti town and not helping.

Jesus bloody wept.

UNVOTE: Not mafia.



VOTE: Vedith

Reason: too much speculating about setups than actual scum hunting.

[SilverWolf]

Kop looks like frustrated town to me. I'm really starting to dislike all the defense of NM this game.

[Vedith]

Reason: too much speculating about setups than actual scum hunting.

Yeah I can't argue with that so far.
I'll be scum hunting though don't you worry.

[Not_Mafia]

Don't like kop buckling to the slightlest bit of pressure, looks like he just wants to go with the flow/least contraversial target at any given juncture