SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Since I don't get a party I'm open to suggestions on where to adventure. I don't think there's an inherent clock on when I have to decide, but let's say 48 hours. I'll keep my own counsel concerning the rest of what I know for the time being.

VOTE: Cool Cucumbers - My hydra partner is cheating on me and we both agreed that the result would be that we would end up on opposing factions. Well ... I don't have access to any PTs for this game so that is all I need to know.

VOTE: Drixx
For not accepting we tried to get you in when you mentioned it.
(Can we be in your party so we can pretend to be hyrda'd at least?)
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Wait, you have to go party-less tonight?
I suggest going to one of the less appealing locations as Varsoon probably put something in that the least likeable options hold something (or not and they truly are as appealing as they seem). Possibly yorkland?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Giving the MC to the most widely town-read player is a good idea, then having the town bloc chosen as the rest also sounds like a good idea.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Main Character: DrippingGoofball

VOTE: Cooldog

Why do you want DrippingGoofball as MC? Throwing MC votes around seems like a bad idea.

The Cool Cucumbers is scum

~Spiffy

Says you!

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Bookmark post so I can follow this game from my mains topics.

Putting it in the hydra cause idk, don't want floating ego posts without any iso. I'll be around later and reading throughout, but I'm going to be trying to limit my posting during work cause it's bad and making me bad at my job.


Until then, leave me a list of shit to give my thoughts on so when I get home I have a good reason to actually dive into the game.

kthxbai.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I don't know who you are and I don't give two shits. Sit the fuck back down, you don't order anyone around here.

Chill bro. Everything has a time

dont let this go into team mafia again :~

on other notes ABR might be town.

Maybe we could make it team Mafia nightless but with the nasty bits filtered out. Us all being town would be pretty incredible, we can all work together then and get me into some noisy 1v1 ending with me self-hammering

Also DGB, don't listen to spiffy. Our username is obviously an indicator that we are town. Which sadly means that Drixx must be scum and our vote is in the right place.

Anyway, on a more serious note:
ArcAngel in response to your 172 I was saying that I think it's a good idea to get the towniest guy (or gal) as the main character and then to have them choose the towniest after them. Abusing town blocs and all that. Being MC however isn't indicative of alignment as you seem to have mistakenly draw from my post though.
Anyway Drixx is townyish, abr, dgb and diamond as well to a lesser extent. As usual with my reads posted by phone shoot me a question about them and I'll discuss/explain/scandle about them with you.

We should also not be making the Miller the MC without role cop result or something.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If you guys ever want me to MC, you know I am a team player.

Well actually I know it seems odd to claim miller and request this but if you read emilia story you'll understand that Emilia is not a bad person and only accused to something wrong [Miller!] so we want to be in MC as well ...

@Molie I cant understand your last post . to much abbreviations. can you rephrase it please ?

~Rylai

My gut is yelling at me that something is wrong with this post but I can't place my finger on it, especially as others have asked for MC status and I saw nothing wrong with them.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Main Character: Drixx

VOTE: Fluminator

I don't like Flum's posts, and Drixx is obviously town.

It's seems to me votes for the MC should be discussed and held off until later, they really shouldn't be rushed as its an influential position. Though this isn't necessarily a bad choice at the moment.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I gave my reads about town reading someone and I'm asking questions to help me understand them better

everything. the way people townblocking. your idea about drixx , stuffs like that ...

~Rylai

Frozen, are you town?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Main Character: Drixx

VOTE: Fluminator

I don't like Flum's posts, and Drixx is obviously town.

Titus?
Why don't you like them?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well seeing how 6 pages didn't appear of fullcaps rage since I last posted I will let you off for now.

P-edit: we will see about that, I'm rather fond of my gut as it is when I overthink things that I start messing my stuff up.

P-edit2: for some strange reasons I thought it was the pirate hydra that voted flub and not you. Anyway your reasons are also fine.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Main Character: Drixx

VOTE: Fluminator

I don't like Flum's posts, and Drixx is obviously town.

Titus?
Why don't you like them?

I like Titus just fine. Or at least, I haven't seen enough to tell.

Fluminator is pinging me, though.

Are your sure it's not because I already have a few votes and it's an easy "gut feel" to blend in with?

You honestly think mafia are going to drive a lynch wagon this early on?
There aren't even that many votes on you considering the amount of players.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also Mollie I don't think I have pushed for a town bloc since Team Mafia after the scarring events of mentioned game.

And flum, why would mafia fake gut reads on you right now if they know this isn't likely going to be a lynch?
Explain this to me what I'm missing or your post you made earlier doesn't make a lot of sense.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Main Character: Drixx

VOTE: Fluminator

I don't like Flum's posts, and Drixx is obviously town.

Titus?
Why don't you like them?

wat is this post I don't even

Read on, I messed up a little
Also using this to get the game into my ego.

Picking this up for ISO and fixing the spelling.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You didn't ask for him explain himself, you posted more of a defensive blargh.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ALRIGHT GUYS! I'M HOME!

DS: This is Cerb. I tag all my posts. Always. If it's not tagged, it's probably wgeurts. I was letting him handle the hydra stuff cause too much mafia is bad for me being productive at work, I said this earlier.

Anyways,i think the only question anybody had for me was mollie, she asked me my thoughts on her reads. Sec while I go grab that post.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

okay I am caught up

I am also on the phone with titus.

I think drixx is town, zzthing and unfortunately possibly abr.

that is what I have so far.

also

this hydra is a healing hydra so that I can stop wanting to murder titus and so that titus will not take it personally that I wanna always murder her. we are hoping to end the shit war between us and learn to get along. we have very different playstyles and very different game approaches but we have agreed to a plan of action; I am going to do most of the heavy lifting on d1 and if we are alive after d3. I am at my best early in the game cos I read players based on reactions whereas titus does better flips and more info. we are going to communicate via text and phone.

true story: when titus and i were talking about game approaches we covered policy lynches and she said she is against them. I said I used to feel that way but I had a change of heart and she asked why. I said "cos of you!" and she laughed and said "I knew it!". <---- I am feeling good about this hydra.

most of the reads on d1 will be MY reads but I AM discussing them with her.

flum is ticking my scumdar so

VOTE: fluminator

I am also very happy with my role.

This is it, yes Mollie?

So, Drixx tox, zzetc town, abr town.

Flum scum.

Lemme iso.

Drixx is null. His posting is all setting up for future game play and stating things which are obvious optimal play, but that's what he would do as either alignment. He will absolutely tell us the best way to play the game with the rules presented, to do otherwise runs counter to both his nature and his interests in the game, since getting caught presenting sub-optimal play to the town as *him* will get him killed by *me*

zzzx: I dislike ZZZX's opening. How hard is it to read the rules? No reason why he should be confused about whether or not drixx's MC status is alignment indicative. Oh, speaking of which, I missed this when I was talking about drixx, yes, obviously something as simple as who starts off as mc isn't alignment indicative, BUT it is incredibly difficult to balance. Assuming one scum team(which is a meh assumption, I think mod meta is "I hate multiball", but the mod has also said he wants to break out of that meta, sooooooooooo), he would need to balance the rewards of ALL the choices Drixx could make on N1 to ensure his scum team didn't end up overpowered. Seems difficult to do, and even harder to do in multiball where you don't want the teams massively imbalanced as well. So, yes, unlikely that he is scum, but if Varsoon is super smart about setting games up, which he is, he might have managed to pull it off without imbalancing *everything*.

Back to zzzx: Not enugh zzzx experience, he's always been inactive as fuck in all our games. This early activity is, well, nothing especially impressive, but it is weird for him. Keeping an eye on him, but I don't have an opinion on him overall. Sorry.

abr: Who the hell is ABR? Another toxic individual who should have replaced out of the game when he realized mollie was going to be in it if he wasn't going to be able to be civil, it seems.

ABR: I give no shits about you, like none at this, but if you fuck up my happy little game with insults and vitriol because you personally dislike another player, i will be very upset with you. It's a large, ignore mollie. There ya go, problem solved, when we get down to 10 players you guys can go at it or something if you're both still around.

Alright, that aside over, I hope we can get along man. I love everyone. ^^

And, yeah I don't know him at all. He's another one who couldn't read the basic rules for the game and asked a question he should have known the answer to. Does that make him town or scum? fuck if I know. I do like his desire to get to the adventures though! That's awesome, adventures are the best part, and he makes valid points regarding the gameplay space that was superseded by flavor, but, well, it was kinda an elegant way to handle this situation. If Varsoon hadn't done things this way, there would be like, no MC tonight, or we'd have to vote for two MC's(one for tonight, one for tomorrow), etc. It would have been messy.

Again, sorry. I suck at this "reading someone from less than a 3 digit post count with 0 flips" thing. Like, I can give thoughts on individual posts, but I can't really see motivation or an overall design with so little ot go off of.

Alright, fluminator: Entry is weird as fuck, but it begs the question of why would scum him make that entry that just draws all eyes to him. Brazen etc, would need to look at games to see if he's that bold as scum, and I won't be doing that. Also, fluminator, maxwells scum game was on point man. He was like, super smooth and stuff in SU. AND town lost in SU because grapes torpedoed us AND Drixx and I didn't follow our original lynch order AND because we were dumb and didn't connect "acid spewing monster" with "janitor". ^^ I agree with my other head that it's weird how he reacted to the barely even there wagon.

Those are my thoughts? They're not really reads, just...thoughts. What I get from their iso's alone with no context. I have been reading the game, but I've been only half paying attention cause work.

Any futher questions, feel free to ask, i'm open for business for another couple hours, then I'll be out partying, and then I'll be around pretty much all weekend to some extent.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx is for tonight. we're choosing the next MC

Wait, can we do that today?

Yes. Read the rules. Thanks! <3

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hi Max! Good to be playing with you again.

DS, some of the players in this game can accrue power by doing certain actions. I suspect that Fluminator is one of them. The way he went about asking for getting to hammer and then saying he's going to bitch about if we don't really sounds bad to me.

Interesting soft. I don't think this was hinted at in the rules. If it was, someone please correct me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh. I'm dumb. There was a bit about ther ebeing other methods to gain techniques other than going on adventures, I believe. Alright. NM. Ignore me, I'm dumb!

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, @Cerb, call me vain, but what are your thoughts on me? I'm both trying to read you here and trying to gauge my D1 performance. It seems like I'm getting better, but I dunno.

Eh, give me a bit, I kinda wanna watch some shows for a bit..:p I'll look at your iso shortly!

vote:Skybird

Not liking the reasoning for the fluminator vote.

Lol. It's true though.

First, we should never rule someone as town based on their role power. That mistake cost town the game in Steven Universe mafia.
Also, in the scum chat for that game, some of the scum gave Varsoon a hard time for not making good enough fakeclaims, so I imagine he has pretty good fakeclaims this game.

Since so many people want to be in the main party, I'll be a nice person and not ask to be in it IF you guys give me the hammers. If not prepare for bitching.

I don't like this post at all. Claiming to be nice and then asking for all the hammers.

VOTE: Fluminator

Hi Max! Good to be playing with you again.

DS, some of the players in this game can accrue power by doing certain actions. I suspect that Fluminator is one of them. The way he went about asking for getting to hammer and then saying he's going to bitch about if we don't really sounds bad to me.

If you think Fluminator has a role that gains powers if he gets hammers or whatever, then why wouldn't he ask for hammers no matter what his alignment was? How is that alignment indicative in any way? At worst those posts were totally null.

I love you for this post. I mean, skyburd being wrong isn't alignment indicative, but I enjoy you pointing it out.

MP: my first thought was a soft, my second thought was oh yeah, that one technique, and my third thought was things other than adventures give powers, in that order. All possible.

Multiball is not something I'm n going to assume, but it shouldn't be dismissed completely based on mod meta, which it might be if the possibility isn't mentioned.
-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Skybird, we tried but just couldn't get someone to fill the spot that would have appeared if he had hydraed with us.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Titus, I asked people to leave me questions and mollie asked me a very specific one. She didn't say here, tell me all your reads about all the everything and determine who is more scum than town right now!

She just asked me for my thoughts on her reads. Very specific.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

The Cerb hydra is very helpful. Abnormally so for him. I fight him all the time on being transparent and he's giving a readwall unprompted. What?

Okay I'm not the only one who noticed it.

This is stragne as HELL for cerb and I don't think hes town.

I *always* answer questions. What I don't do is vomit reads lists, and that's what titus always asks from me. Look at my friggin responses, is any of that actually a read? Like seriously, did I take a stance on a single fucking one of them? No, because I don't fucking know, but I did give mollie my thoughts, as requested.

Also, again, what I posted was not unprompted. Mollie specifically said "what are your thoughts on my reads"(or something quite close to that). I gave said thoughts. Done.

Cerb: Do you think this is unusual for you? Is it on purpose?

I don't think it's unusual for me to answer questions. I think they're both confusing me responding to specific questions with the way I respond to people asking me for reads on D1. There's a big difference between thoughts and conclusions. I have LOADS of thoughts, but people don't ask about those. They always ask about conclusions, and D1 I fail at concluding things.

Also, just a note fuckers: I'm hugely aware of my fucking meta, don't try to tell me I'd go around just, ya know, blatantly acting against my meta as scum.

That's stupid, and whatever else you may think of me, you know I'm not stupid.

-Cerb

p.s. curses added for emphasis, I love you guys. <3

[The Cool Cucumbers]

cooldog, ds is mislynch bait put your sights on Cerberus, the guy playing completely opposite to his very clear town meta

this is the equivalent of Antihero lurking away into nowhere. Cerb doesn't do this.

I'm not gonna make up a meta case, Maxwell. Vote with me

pedit: its subconsciously easdier for you as scum to make reads. I think this is scumyou. You weren't just "answering questions" Town cerb would be like "WELL UHH IDK and write an essay about your uncertainty. This also doesn't seem like towngeurts

I have *one* completed scum game. Go read it and tell me I don't know how to duplicate my town meta on demand. Shit's easy yo.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63704

You are welcome to believe that I would be so terrible, but you're wrong.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, holy shit, look at my fucking post. How is it anything but an essay on uncertainty? Did you not read it?

*sigh*

I mean, none of that is alignment indicative, I just told you I have no problem being me all the time, but like....the post is a case fucking study on the art of waffling and spewing out thoughts without actually reaching a read. I'm inclined to ignore you here, but...you're just so wrong.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx, the ONLY thing about that post that was super firm was what I said about you. Do you know what the difference between you and every other player I was asked to evaluate is? Hundreds of hours of taking in real time, a few games hydraing together, and a dozen or more games together in a very different environment, PLUS massive insight into how you approach games in general through paying cooperatively with you over multiple genres of games.

Damn fucking straight I can evaluate the shit out of you on D1.

Everybody else, not so much.

So yes, if you want to call my willingness to firmly establish a fucking null read on you with 20 posts to work with a change in my meta, you're welcome to do so, but you know it's reflective of the unique nature of our relationship, and not a change in my gameplay.

I don't believe I have *ever* been asked to evaluate just you in a game on this site. There is no precedent.

Also, thank you for the ego boost.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

'allo ZZZX. Let's talk
Do you have any scum reads or suspicions right now?
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Shiro could you change your posting default to include your sig automatically for those that can't tell the difference?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

He got mod-killed.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

'allo ZZZX. Let's talk
Do you have any scum reads or suspicions right now?
~wgeurts

Suspicious of Drixx

Kinda scumreading DGB

Waiting for like 5-6 people to start posting.

Town reading:
TItus/Mollie
ABR
DS slightly.

I'm interested in why your suspicious of both as they both are town reads of mine to some extent.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What angst.mollie? I clearly said any cursing was for emphasis only. it's irritating to have people claim they know what I'm doing better than I do, but I can understand that it's easy to confuse my answer to your questions with actually having solid reads on people, at least partially because I just say so damn much.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hi. My MC vote is for sale. If I don't think you're scum, and wgeurts doesn't disagree, and you take me on a single adventure, I will support your campaign.

Just one guys. Cuz it'll be fun.

Anyways, I have more time too now, so I read the last buncha pages, two things in particular jumped at me (well, more than that, but two things I actually noted in our hydra pt and then figured hey, why not just tell the whole game?

Pretty sure I can quote from my hydra pt because I've, like, done basically that before, but I'm going to just remove the quote tags. Just in case!!

Catching up on what's happened since I slept now. Drixx just said ( 6 pages back) that all he can see is defensive but nothing scummy from the Rylan slot, but whIle interacting with ABR earlier he said he was 90% of the way to agreeing with him about the Rylan slot....and ABR waa pushing that it was scum. That is weird.

Mechanically it seems unlikely Drixx is scum, but, umm. Explain the above Drixx. How did you go from 90% agreeing with ABR to determining that everything was defensive and nothing was scummy?

Idk why ABR is suggesting we get the information Rylai has about confirmed town characters. All scum need to have us a janitor, and if they kill one of those people with a janitor kill and then Rylan flips town they have a nearly ironclad free trip to the endgame. There will be Wifom sure, but they'll only be considered as a lynch in lylo. :/

And ABR, WTF? I get that the information might be lost, BUT if the information is part of their role card (confirm that rylai), then I would expect it to be shared with town when they flip. If it won't be, your concern is valid....but umm...what do we do if we end up with janitored kills and people claiming the roles a town flipped Rylai named as town? I get that it's a moderately improbable scenario, but what you're suggesting can give scum another tool. :/

Hmm. Maybe I'm over thinking this. If we have agreement from the entire game that the individuals rylai knows are guaranteed town are going to claim roles today if rylai names them, then I think they should share who they are. Since everyone is alive, scum will be unable to fake claim them because said characters will be here to counterclaim.

Yeah, okay, I like this better now that I think about it. We can't just have her share the information. We need the information shared and a clear x and y are town claim established. Then, IF we lynch her and she flips town, we'll know certain slots are town. If she's scum, we'll have associatives to follow up on.

Sorry ABR. Not as bad if an idea as I thought at first.

Also: ABRs attitude is super antitown, his activity and pushing of people is absolutely super town. However, at this point, because I know Drixx wants to figure us out and will thus take us on an adventure (plus the mechanical unlikely hood of him being scum, his inconsistency on the R&L slot aside ), consider me part of the Drixx for MC lobby, but the polls aren't open yet so I can't vote. :p

Also Varsoon, I haven't said this yet, but it was my first thought: Thanks for making a game where I have to try to be popular to get to do the cool stuff, instead of trying to be unpopular like I normally do. :p

-Cerb

Pedit: OMG ABR WANTS ME TO GO ON AN ADVENTURE WITH HIM SHIT. Okay, ABR is acceptable too. :p

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Titus what do you think of my hypothetical party?

Too drama filled. RaL and Cool Dog in the same party although both town is a recipe for disaster. Cool Cumberbers need to post more.

Petit...and he posted

~Titus

Sorry Titus, I was doing shiz in ongoing and afterwards I hated mafia with a passion and had to go play fallout 4 and listen to good music and sleep lest I replace out of all my games and swear this game off forever. I'm feeling better now.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ITT Yos is Sonic.

BUT if the information is part of their role card (confirm that rylai), then I would expect it to be shared with town when they flip

No. Our role has info that somewhat confirms another and there's nothing that says it's shared upon flip except perhaps role name.

Also: ABRs attitude is super antitown

Have you played with ABR before? This is one of his better games.

Holy shit. That's terrifying. Are we talking kuribo levels of assholehood, or not quite?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

We now have a two party system people. The DP's and the ABR's, but the independent's Drixx and Wicked are looking quite strong, even though they haven't laid out any of the details of their platform.

Shit.

Someone ask me something? I read everything that's happened, but it really needs to be reread because fucking hell FA noise again. Plus this is a large, with a number of people I haven't played with, gotta go deep to understand them.

-Cerb

pedit: Oh. That kind of thing. Got it. Yeah, okay, this is way better. I'm going ot assume it's because he knows lurking doesn't make people townread you, and you only get to be MC if you are townread, and he really wants to go on adventures. It's the same problem I have. Usually I deliberately try to get people to scum read me because as town, it lets me live to the late game, where I'm useful, and as scum, it helps explain why I'm living to the late game. But now...fuck. I need people to think I'm town and shit. Some bullshit going on here.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hey guys, guess what? Nobody has responded to my idea yet.

Let's recap:

R&L claim who the characters who they KNOW are town are. Before we have a single death or any uncertainty. Those two players claim their characters. Now, if R&L dies, and we see they are town, we get two conftown out of it. Boom.

Why wouldn't we do that again? It even has the added benefit of creating incentive for scum to focus their fire on certain locations, marginally increasing our protective's ability to be useful(especially if t hose slots R&L claims will be town are actually active and good enough players for scum to consider them a threat, rather than sucking and thus increasing the number of likely targets for scum)
-Cerb

pedit: Shit was said,I'll address it before more shit is said and I end up in an eternal loop of pedits.

pedit x2: fuck, it's begun.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Someone ask me something? I read everything that's happened, but it really needs to be reread because fucking hell FA noise again. Plus this is a large, with a number of people I haven't played with, gotta go deep to understand them.

Do you think my slot is scum? I'm losing hype, man. The only reason I am so active is because I thought I'd be an easy town read and could go on adventures. That's the only reason Lowell wants to even play the game. He hasn't read this thread since like page 3.

Also, who do you think is scum? I'm surprised to see cdg and max as possible options. And definitely thought the flum hype would've died down once he explained himself.

I need to iso you to answer that, but seriously, I'm leaving all the heavy lifting to wgeurts today. He does shit like reread the thread and put together associatives and stuff on D1. I don't bother with that shit on D1 because it feels like a crapshoot to me.

So yeah, umm, when wgeurts finishes his reread and stuff and we talk about stuff he'll probably give you an idea of who he thinks is scum. *shrug* I might look into cdg and max too. We'll see. There is a nonzero chance I'll ISO the three of you and tell you my thoughts. But it's closer to zero than you'd probably like.

Also, if you want to go on adventures, you hsould probably like obvtown yourself and shit, so people pick you as MC. Either that, or be such an enigma that they want quality private time with you to sort you. One of those might work?

But, really, you should just be scumhunting and solving the game and stuff. That's probably optimal. Scumhunt, be obvtown, profit.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hey guys, guess what? Nobody has responded to my idea yet.

Let's recap:

R&L claim who the characters who they KNOW are town are. Before we have a single death or any uncertainty. Those two players claim their characters. Now, if R&L dies, and we see they are town, we get two conftown out of it. Boom.

Why wouldn't we do that again? It even has the added benefit of creating incentive for scum to focus their fire on certain locations, marginally increasing our protective's ability to be useful(especially if t hose slots R&L claims will be town are actually active and good enough players for scum to consider them a threat, rather than sucking and thus increasing the number of likely targets for scum)
-Cerb

pedit: Shit was said,I'll address it before more shit is said and I end up in an eternal loop of pedits.

pedit x2: fuck, it's begun.

I do indeed want them to claim the two character names, but I don't necessarily want the characters to claim yet. They might be specialized / powerful PRs and if so shouldn't out themselves.

Flavor claim alone should not out the level of their power. If the characters don't claim, there is potential for uncertainty going forwad. Only now can we be 100% certain that they are who they say they are, because no scum would risk the cc. We don't know what their alignments are until R&L flips though.

Titus is the only player in the game who has voiced criticism about Drixx picking any specific region. This is alarming for several reasons. One, because I think that each of the region yields positive rewards; there are no "cursed" powers. Therefore, I infer that Titus is trying to get to Ghost town FIRST so SHE can get the power there. This isn't looking good for her.

This is laughable. The regions are all third party neutral sites. If scum have any info about what's in them, alright, but to openly oppose you and create all this noise in the thread, please. DP is not scum.

If scum have any info about what's in them, alright, but to openly oppose you and create all this noise in the thread, please. DP is not scum.

That's the thing; I'm saying she knows what's there and wants it for herself.

Bullshit. Agree with lowkey, except for the DP is definitely not scum thing. I don't believe scum would start a fight over a 5% chance of town choosing the specific location they're interested in, but that doesn't mean she's town. It does mean ABR's idea is bullshit.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What? We have someone who claims they have information that 100% means certain flavor claims are town. I specifically said those people aren't cleared until that person flips town. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be *aware* of who they are and have the associatives known ASAP.

In SU, you coasted until D3/4! We just didn't call you out until D5. We were even suspicious of you from the very first moment you took responsibility for the doc save invention. Just sayin! I do get your point though. This situation is different though. Unless Varsoon has a planned release of powers, regardless of what region we visit(which, while it's better for planning, just...idk...seems unfun?), it seems really hard to balance for scum!drixx receiving any of 20 different rewards. That's the crux of the Drixx as a good MC thought there.

-Cerb

pedit:ABR, yes, you're right, that would be stronger. It does make us vulnerable to losing them tonight though. :-/

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP: You are misunderstanding. R&L Say they have the flavor names of two confirmed town. Period. That is what is going on. It is optimal to reveal to a neighborhood of all town, but I feel the benefit of revealing in sucha situation is marginal overall. We still don't know R&L's alignment.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lowkey, you are right. DP is wrong.

Rylai and Lina: You're making a ton of posts, but I'm having trouble following all of it, and most of what you are saying seem to be fluff or just calling yourself town over and over again which isn't terribly helpful.

If you want to convince me you are town, there are two things you should do:

1. I am very unlikely to be convinced of anything by role flavor. Honestly I basically know nothing about the RPG in question, and I don't really care anyway, a competent mod in a setup like this would probably either give the scum town sounding rolenames or else give them town sounding fakeclaims.

However, I think you've claimed or hinted at several parts of your role, both in terms of flavor and role power, but your claim is so all over the place and confusing that I'm having figuring out what you have and haven't claimed. If there's some parts of your role you actually don't want to claim yet that is fine, but if you could take everything you have said and want to say right now and condense it down into a coherent partial roleclaim in a couple of sentences that would be a lot more clear.

2. Start scumhunting. All you've basically done for the past several pages is call yourself town and get upset that you're been voted. That doesn't really tell me anything.

What you need to do is to make a detailed case against someone (you don't have to be 100% sure, just whoever is your top suspect right now), lay out why you think they are scum, try to get them to respond, try to put pressure on them, and try to convince other people to join you. You know, scumhunting; trying to both figure out if your top suspect is scum and trying to get him lynched. We're going to lynch someone today; if you think it shouldn't be you. then tell us who we should lynch, and why. And the sooner you do this the better.

1 - We are Emilia , accused for the murder of our fiance and got put into a prison but with the help of some friends escaped.
we are miller , we will be investigated as "not town"

we know 2 characters are definitely town

we have an ability related to MC and adventures
+ ....

2 - see this spoiler and define me the definition of scum hunting ...

Spoiler: our scum hunts

there is one who claims that they are not miller seems scummy to me...

why? whats scummy about it?

~Rylai

Oh boy. I forgot how fast these threads go.

Like to start playing ? anytime soon maybe?

~Rylai

The not-miller claim was pretty null, imo.

anything else?

~Rylai

@drixx, that should be handled privately.

whats a universal miller ? We show "Not town" to everyone ...

~Rylai

A universal miller returns scum regardless of the type of investigation. For instance, you would be tracked to every kill, show as guilty to any cop, have a gun to any GS etc.

A gravedigger shows up as guilty to watchers and trackers.

So when you state you have a miller modifier, this is very very unclear.

If you only give false positives to cops, then you're just a miller. Miller modifier is unnecessarily confusing.

~Titus

I find it weird that you would question that Titus.

Not only I had already said that we are ust a miller a few posts above but you should have been aware that FA english are a bit weird sometimes. Not a single other person got confused, what gives?

~Lina

Got Ninjad

Hmm zzx what didn't you like about Dgb entrance?

Her readslist I guess I see why you raised an eyebrow since she had you as a lurker but anything other than that?

Fakish P.edit

Gets auto logged off. Relogs in. Wgeurts already asked

Why is ABR nearly universally town readed again?

~Rylai

Why is ABR nearly universally town readed again?

~Rylai

I don't have a problem with ABR's play so far.

I don't either to be honest.

isn't this null ? why town read?

for ego

Skybird any other insides beside Flum ?

~Rylai

Nothing that jumped out at me like the hammer thing with Flum. ZZZX is posting a lot more than I've seen him post before. But I haven't seen anything in his posts that makes me think he is scum. I like Drunken Pirates for town so far.

I'd really like to see the rest of the player list post something. I think we still have 3 players that haven't posted yet.

whats your opinion about ArcAngel , Drixx and cucumbers?

There are 17 pages and tons of posts to be discussed. why your w8ing for the slots hasn't showed up yet?

~Rylai

I haven't been accused of active lurking yet I don't think? Unless you are?
I'll give my reads as I get them. I still don't even have a mental image of a lot of the players yet though.

well your avoiding to give reads.

whats your reads overall? people are scumreading you for your fluffy no content based posts ...

I am not a Miller

I haven't been accused of active lurking yet I don't think? Unless you are?
I'll give my reads as I get them. I still don't even have a mental image of a lot of the players yet though.

well your avoiding to give reads.

whats your reads overall? people are scumreading you for your fluffy no content based posts ...

I'm just going to say I strongly disagree with you then.
Especially considering my first post is one of the hottest topics still.

THAT'S A READ

I'm totally convinced ....

Why are you acting this weird? your like "too scummy" to be the scum

It seems you just begged me to vote you ...

in that case here you go VOTE: Fluminator

But before that ABR you made 79 posts (nearly as much as us (me and shiro together) ) and WHAT have you done for the game so far ?

All I can see from you is throwing stones in a muddy watter ...

~Rylai

eh. we can lose a character cop, hindu I will lynch her if you are happy with your bus.

I am only saying this cos you are suddenly becoming weird.

I'm not a character cop I just have information about characters... and my main role is to help MC in adventures as I claimed it before ...

and i'm not weird he has 49 posts just saying "Rylai your scum" or "talk to others about her" or " why your not voting her"

~Rylai

I'm town and I'm accused of nothing people are just voting me.

I have a shitty list? I suck as town.

But that doesn't mean I'm scum because I'm not.

This is pinging scum SO HARD right now.

Here you go buddy

@Cooldog

Since you have been around the block as you are saying then buddy I am in shock you know ? Because almost every game I played here when someone shouted about his self meta he was town and the people jumping on it scum. You reason is probably worse than ABR and abr is just shouting.

Your nose is pinging me so hard ABR

This isn't a hentai fanfic, stop.

That was a good joke xD

ABR, can you summarize the case against Rylaigh please?

Absolutely not. Read through cooldog, wicked, and Yosarian. You've done jack this game and are voting Skybird, really??

The case is bad though borderline none existant. It pretty much sums up to

Weird and OMG SELF META MUST BE SCUM. ABR tell me that you have never seen town provide self meta

your meta reads on me contradict each other...

You're playing the newbie card when we both know you aren't. You're bringing up every imaginable excuse. "My hydra partner not here" "My role pm" "My meta". It's obvious you're scum.

Well, I mean I wasn't here. I spend the whole day out yesteday. I told her in our PT. But I mean if you want to say it never happnened then go ahead.

I think I saw something town in FA's posts.

VOTE: Klingon

Sheep me FA.

Ooook? I will have to read Kling. ABR i know you are absolutly wrong but from your interation with FA I feel you are town as town can be like it contradicts the scum games I have seen from you to a dot. Is this warcraft 3 ABR ?

To anyone that asked why we were wishy washy on flum early it was because I was not really buying the scumlean while FA was.

I really don't like max's number things it feel like he is trying to appears busy with it. His posts reminds me the game we were scumpartners but I only saw a little of him since he replaced in and died day 1. It more of gut than anything.

Can someone tell me why we are voting wickd as MC ? Like the most I can recall from him is sheeping ABR and calling Rylai weird. I did just wake up though and read 10 pages after FA told me we were wagoned. (Yea I just checked and he has 5 posts wtf ?)

FA has no trouble with english.

For someone that says this. You are having serious trouble understanding what FA is telling you.

FA is saying that we have info that will confirm people as town BUT it not wise to make them public.

We discussed this on skype and agreed that the best course of action is to be in trusted party (for the record what FA means as MC is being in the party) and reveal it there so more people are aware of it.

Like her crmping is pretty eh so I am just going to semi claim it. We have two confirmed town people by flavour name. Obviously calling them out will get them killed pretty fast though so you get the idea I have already claimed who I am so they might piece it togther and throw a hint our way.


~Lina

Oops

Hey Drixx what do you think of the totally bs push for wicdj for MC?

I find it nonsensical and most likely scum motivated.

Skybird just fallen down in my list more than anyone else

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

NO I'm not asking people to town read me because I'm a main character. I'm saying as a main charcter I will fight for avoiding this lynch because that will screw the town.

YOUR BOLDING my sentense and omit the "or I'm useless(Kind of)" part in purpose to change my claim as a try for begging to be townreaded. Its my role claim. I fucking don't care if people can't believe it ...

The fact that your ignoring all the fucking things I said and zooming in my defensive usual behavior Is devilish scummy

Even before this you were one of me and shiro's scum reads so far. the fact I asked you what are your reads and you just gave me 3 shitty reads , the fact that you have no solid read of your own and the fact you just jumped on my wagon is enough for me to think your scum.

VOTE: Skybird This was the worst jump on a wagon ever! [people are free to call that omgus - He is scummy and yes he is scummy ]

about max as I finished reading his Iso , his posts give me different feelings. he is holding middleground in like everything. call us scum but attack drunken pirates for questioning us. not giving a solid read on flum or in any case.

that gave me a bad feeling.

~Rylai

@Sky

You are making no sense.

Yes I asked if it is safe to assume. YOU should bloody know that I value flavour A LOT. Remember hard defending a hood till two people In it flipped scum in twilight zone? Yea.

I townread Drixx because I like his posts. He has the same mindset as me. That we should be thinking of the mechanics as well not purely on lynch scum. The fact that his flavour is an main character is a bonus.

P.edit

@Sky that was no complain, that was me questioning how she could misunderstand it. I said in thebsame post We are just a miller.

It would would give me pause. And I would tell you to reassess the situation if you are legit about it.

You already saw how a Mc flipped. Things are wacky.

@Cooldog

So you say you never seen town do it? Cause I have seen town do it far more.

~Lina

Flum started the game with a very odd sentense like he wanted to attract attention. people show their will and unwillingness about the wagon. it built several times and disbanded . and now there is a sudden wagon on us.

Flum claim (about hammer thing) looks like a scum or 3party. I have a hard time believing thats a town role. its kind of like "hammer town , steal their powers" . we don't have that much scum in game to get hammered do we?

his read list is basically nothing, the way people are interacting with him is tooo much wifom'y in my mind ...

quoting from hydra chat

we decided to move back our vote here , even though max seems fairly scummy as well

VOTE: Flum

[point : I unvoted because shiro's last post before last day disappearance was a null read on him and I needed to talk about this case with him]

pedit : "our other posts are not clearly scummy" WE can defend. talk to us about them instead of throwing shade

~Rylai

Later, someone suggests they name who those characters are, and they say they thought about it but decided against it or something. Clearly, they have the names of two characters who are town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Whoever we choose to be MC can still be killed tonight. If that's the case, then the first person on the list of the dead MC becomes MC. I confirmed this with Varsoon.

ABR's pretty much as obvtown as it gets. This was in my head yesterday but I didn't ask because I was lazy.

Important thing to know. Also gives us cause to keep the MC in the hands of the same player, because that prevents them from dying. *shrug* Dunno if that's optimal, I like Titus' idea of always having a new MC/party because that gives us revolving pools of players and associative and such to work with, instead of just gaining more and more information on the same small pool.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fuck, DS. I'm sorry. I told you I'd read your iso and tell you what I thought. I started reading and said fuck it, I'm not doing ISO reading today. Sorry man. I haven't forgotten you, but I have decided I'm not in the mood for that today.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Let's not post the examples.

Also, I just got mod confirmation that entire role PM's flip in this game in the style of the previous modkill. Increased chance there's a janitor, though, given the entire pm flips.

I just think max is town mollie, not really sure what to tell you besides I just read him as town. Look at the first lines of his last post because I felt like that comes from town too. Also, I know you made a case on him but I may or may have not skipped it because I skimmed some posts selectively while trying to catch up in this game. I'll reread it but I don't think I'll change from rereading. You should join the Klingon wagon and we can get back to Max later!

I would get extra super special confirmation that if there is a specific character/player mentioned in your role pm, that information will come with your flip. In the first SU game the lover masons had their partner included in their flip, but in Suikoden, the masons would not have had their partner included in their flip, and the information of "you know x is town" was included on the role card in both cases.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hi. My MC vote is for sale. If I don't think you're scum, and wgeurts doesn't disagree, and you take me on a single adventure, I will support your campaign.

Just one guys. Cuz it'll be fun.

Anyways, I have more time too now, so I read the last buncha pages, two things in particular jumped at me (well, more than that, but two things I actually noted in our hydra pt and then figured hey, why not just tell the whole game?

Pretty sure I can quote from my hydra pt because I've, like, done basically that before, but I'm going to just remove the quote tags. Just in case!!

Catching up on what's happened since I slept now. Drixx just said ( 6 pages back) that all he can see is defensive but nothing scummy from the Rylan slot, but whIle interacting with ABR earlier he said he was 90% of the way to agreeing with him about the Rylan slot....and ABR waa pushing that it was scum. That is weird.

Mechanically it seems unlikely Drixx is scum, but, umm. Explain the above Drixx.

How did you go from 90% agreeing with ABR to determining that everything was defensive and nothing was scummy?

Idk why ABR is suggesting we get the information Rylai has about confirmed town characters. All scum need to have us a janitor, and if they kill one of those people with a janitor kill and then Rylan flips town they have a nearly ironclad free trip to the endgame. There will be Wifom sure, but they'll only be considered as a lynch in lylo. :/

And ABR, WTF? I get that the information might be lost, BUT if the information is part of their role card (confirm that rylai), then I would expect it to be shared with town when they flip. If it won't be, your concern is valid....but umm...what do we do if we end up with janitored kills and people claiming the roles a town flipped Rylai named as town? I get that it's a moderately improbable scenario, but what you're suggesting can give scum another tool. :/

Hmm. Maybe I'm over thinking this. If we have agreement from the entire game that the individuals rylai knows are guaranteed town are going to claim roles today if rylai names them, then I think they should share who they are. Since everyone is alive, scum will be unable to fake claim them because said characters will be here to counterclaim.

Yeah, okay, I like this better now that I think about it. We can't just have her share the information. We need the information shared and a clear x and y are town claim established. Then, IF we lynch her and she flips town, we'll know certain slots are town. If she's scum, we'll have associatives to follow up on.

Sorry ABR. Not as bad if an idea as I thought at first.

Also: ABRs attitude is super antitown, his activity and pushing of people is absolutely super town. However, at this point, because I know Drixx wants to figure us out and will thus take us on an adventure (plus the mechanical unlikely hood of him being scum, his inconsistency on the R&L slot aside ), consider me part of the Drixx for MC lobby, but the polls aren't open yet so I can't vote. :p

Also Varsoon, I haven't said this yet, but it was my first thought: Thanks for making a game where I have to try to be popular to get to do the cool stuff, instead of trying to be unpopular like I normally do. :p

-Cerb

Pedit: OMG ABR WANTS ME TO GO ON AN ADVENTURE WITH HIM SHIT. Okay, ABR is acceptable too. :p

Drixx: bold please, Kthxbye going to sleep now.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I don't think defending the fluminator wagon/questioning fluminators response to the wagon is the same as defending fluminator. In fact, I'd be inclined to say it represented the opposite at the time, given that wgeurts left me a note saying he was suspicious of flum at that moment...

Also, have you ever considered that perhaps ABR didn't call me out on 982 because it's a statement of a fact? What exactly was there to call me out on?

Also, fucking hate not being able to sleep.

Also, umm. Why are you not voting ABR? I don't believe you are right? That entire wall there, though titled Why ABR is not to be trusted, is really Why Titus believes ABR is scum, along with notes on people whose interactions with him have led me to believe certain things about them. Maybe just say that?

Also, I didn't even notice fluminator defending my meta or whatever, so thank you for pointing that out: Fluminator, though I have no problem with sharing my opinion on things, I generally(like, practically never) have a definite opinion on a slot d1, because I can always think of plenty of ways the actions they've taken could make sense for either scum or town..As we get further in the game and know more, I can dismiss posibilities because of the increased knowledge we have.

So, the point Titus was making waa she believed that earlier post was a reads list(which it wasn't, but whatever, Titus is bad at understanding me), and since I don't give reads lists this early, it was very very suspicious.

Also, Titus, can you create a TL;DR for your ABR post? I read the first third and stopped because there was no way I was going to manually go back and check all those posts to double check your work.

Hi mollie. Do you think my answer to your questions was a reads list?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh! Also, we totally had an interaction with ABR! I called him a toxic asshole and told him to ignore you guys and stop bringing this shit into my happy fun times.

It is weird that he'd suggest me as part of the party though, especially since he ninjaed my post expressing that my loyalty was for sale..:p

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sorry ABR, you won't like this, because I read your earlier opinion on not voting, but this head of the hydra I'd SUPER stingy with voting. and I also told wgeurts he gets to make decisions about everything except Drixx until we get further into the game, and he was working on rereading the game 13 hours ago, and I haven't heard from him since, so idk where he is at. Whenever he's done though we'll probably end up voting for all the things.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You know, if I didn't have work tomorrow I'd totally start isoing people and giving unasked for opinions totally freak titus out....hmm.

Stupid work.

-Cerb

Pedit: congrats! I'm sucking. Since I started playing on this site I keep fucking losing, except for suikoden. I mean, I guess WDPT was a draw, really, but man. Sick of losing in lylo. also, umm, why am I town? Everything everyone(like, I think just fluminator, actually) has said about my lack of actual productive content is totally correct. I'd think I'm null at this point, at best.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hey I'm just glad you're town. I'd like to take a quick moment to mention I'm on an 8 game winning streak rampage Yeahhhhh!

I have won 21 out of the last 27 town games I have played! I am even counting the cupcake 1 altho that game was bullshit.

hi cerb!

tbh I don't even remember what your exact response was I just felt like it was very hedgy. but I bet i remember what your responses are on this page tho!

"hedgey"

"hedgey"

You know, that's a decent way of describing the way I answered your question(s)(which was, btw, you asking what my thoughts were on your reads), but...it's a markedly different way of describing it than the way Drixx and Titus described it. They were both shocked by me taking firm stances on things....firm stances which you call..."hedgey"

So, umm, which is it guys? Was I taking surprisingly firm stances, or was i being "hedgey"?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I assume they meant I was "hedging my bets", as in, not firmly coming down on either side of the issue...as in...not giving a firm read as either scum or town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm not trying to drive a wedge, I just like explanations for what I view as inconsistencies. One slot saying that I'm being hedgey with regards to the same post another head thinks I'm being too firm in requires explanation.

I lumped her in with Drixx because they are the two parties(along with spifflop, who is, unfortunately, no longer relevant, other than in our knowledge that his concerns were town motivated), who found my post displayed too much certainty for them to be comfortable with it, and viewed it as a departure from my normal play.

So, ABR: Are you guys in agreement that you believe he is scum? Or did that wall from Titus mean something else?

-Cerb

pedit: Ooh, drixx said something, I'll read it. ^^

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh. It was testing about the whole pt link thing. Hmph. I think that was an unfair test. They were posting in hydra, so I can only assume they had their hydra pt open. You would need to do something like have a hydra pt open in the preview window, and open a topic in here, and see what the post tags did in various scenarios with different pt's open and stuff. There's clearly something weird going on there, but given that they're a hydra the weird thing is less likely to mean something than if they were in a solo slot that has no pt's. Unfortunately, even if they were said solo slot, whatever is happening could even be caused by having pt's within other games they're currently playing. :-/

In short, idk. It's weird.

Anyways, other thing you said.

But...if I go on offense, Drixx, that means I'm taking firm stances on things? I thought that wasn't what I did???????



Seriously though, I'm just keeping up and responding to things that catch my eye until wgeurts finishes his reread(which was delayed by a migraine today, it seems). I'd prefer to not influence his thoughts while he's working on figuring things out. I want uncorrupted wgeurts analysis, and then I'll see if I agree with him or not on the strong reads either way.


Also, you STILL haven't answered the bolded portion of my comment towards you. Maybe if you had noticed it you'd think I was going on the offense, because I was questioning you.

So, here it is again: Earlier in the game, while ABR was scumreading R&L, you stated that you were 90% to seeing things the way he did, but later on, when asked about them, you said that you found nothing scummy about what they had said...only defensive things.

So, which is it? How were you 90% of the way to thinking they were scummy, without having found anything scummy in their play/iso?

Hmm, also, didn't I, like, just question why ABR was townreading me? Why aren't you picking up on these things Drixx? You said our slot was an important one for you to figure out, but it seems like you're not putting any real effort into actually reading our posts. You're just hung up on me spewing a buncha bullshit that, other than the read given on you, was me saying idk with more words.

-Cerb

pedit: Mollie, I asked you about your ABR read? Cuz Titus is using imprecise language(which is almost certainly deliberate), which leads me to belivee she is considering that he might be scum, but isn't certain enough to actually call him scum. I'll discuss whatever else too, cuz idgaf. It'll just be off the top of my head thoughts though cause work, if I answer before I go home for the day at least.

peditx2: omg Yosarian, shut up. Does Drixx know you're town? No? Okay, so let's change what you said to what it actually means.

If you don't give rings to Yosarian, you are preventing a slot in this game of unknown alignment from gaining powers.

That's Drixx's fucking point. If you obvtown, he'll consider you town, and then the point you're making is relevant. Until you fucking obvtown, and he considers you town, he is not going to risk giving power to you.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, these adventure lists are shitty. They're all "Yes, I would pick the people who have been talking the most and who people have expressed the most thoughts on that aren't negative"

Like. Idk, it doesn't feel good to me that there are so many consistencies in the lists that are being given out.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@ drixx - titus wanted to post her big long wall from our hydra pt. she had been working on it for hours. which is why I was like "wow abr picked up that holy shit" but it only moves him to unsure cos why wld he have the confidence to say that it came from a hydra pt. the insight startles me and if abr is town I will be reevaluating him as a player. it strikes me as something that only scum (cos I am not in their pt) or perceptive town wld know. lets just say I am trying to be optimistic here despite the earlier townleans I had on him. when we flip, look at that. still wanna lean town but he is unsure tbh.

What? It's not hard to notice that most of the links there simply don't exist, or lead to a topic we can't access. Why...why does that give ABR *any* credit at all? Anyone who decided to click on the links would have the same knowledge he displayed, which would lead to a very small pool of possibilities.

pedit: R&L. Be useful. Tell Drixx why he shouldn't go there. Seriously. stop with the "oh yeah we totally know things but we refuse to share these things because we're being secretive and playing sub optimally. We already outlined why it's *optimal* for you to name the flavor of the people you know are town. If you have other friggin information that helps us go on good adventures, friggin share it. Like, all of it. The only benefit to *not* sharing it is if you have this hope that scum will go adventure there and receive whatever negative result you're concerned about, and that's fucking marginal. It's a lot less significant than making sure the town doesn't misstep and accidentally help scum.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lowkey, I'm not so sure about that. I'm going to stop discussing this particular mechanical thing because it's kinda not useful for finding scum, other than having the list in the first place, but...well, if everyone is giving out the same list, it could also mean they're simply not trying, and are just defaulting to bullshit that someone else suggested. It also means scum get a free pass for just sheeping the suggested lists and "consensus" choices, which removes a lot of the value of having the list in the first place.

-Cerb

pedit: Yosarian, you are creating a parallel where none exists. It's not like roleblocking you. It's like inventing to you. He wouldn't invent a power to someone he was uncertain of. He would only invent it to someone whose alignment he was very certain of.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, Drixx, btw: I recommend you read the wiki/plot spoilers of the game, and see what locations lute visits in the game and in what order, and go with his first place as your first choice. That's...just a suggestion, but if there's some sort of changing effect of locations depending on when you go there, it would probably be bad to jump to someplace late game at the start of the adventure.

Just a thought. *shrug*

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Some other thoughts through page 32 and then I'll continue reading.

*I agree that Drixx's bait post was strange. If the intention was to make a bait post to elicit telling reactions, then I'm not sure why he disappointedly outed its purpose in the same post where he says he got a town read on ABR from it. I also think it's somewhat strange how he acted as if the gambit was 'blown up' and then later defends that he's content with observing the follow up conversation. If he doesn't follow up on this, then this is something concerning.

Wicked4President2k16

I like the sound of that.

I was trying to see If I can trust them both or not. Yes I'm trying to town block for above reason ^
As I said I read people's meta at night - not game related for sure - this helps me to play better in my next games and know people better

There's nothing wrong in and of itself with 'trying to town block'. Town blocks require confidence from each and every member that all other members are also town. But your immediate request for meta demonstrated some doubt. That's what I don't understand: it feels contradictory.

*I get town vibes from these posts;

Spoiler: not sure what to title this

@ABR You're not contributing to town. You're not fostering conversation. Great, you think I am pushing a shitty lynch, fine. Killing conversation isn't cool. That's all your approach is doing. You aren't asking why I have a problem with lynching FA/Shiro, why I want Flum dead, and why of other people. Even if your mind is made up, these questions can help get reads on others and help me read you. Right now, engaging you

regardless of your alignment

is just going to get you yelling that we're wrong. It's not helpful.

Unless you intend to have a rational conversation about reads, we have zero to talk about.

Unvote; Vote: Rylai

I have no idea where Lowell is in this game just so you guys know. All he said in our PT today was stuff about the gifs I posted so I'm going to have him sheep me until we have adventures.

Felt earlier that Flum was town and slowly being reassured of that read.

*For what it's worth: I am extremely uncomfortable with assuming that all main characters are town.

(Moving on)

Agreed.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

pedit: Yosarian, you are creating a parallel where none exists. It's not like roleblocking you. It's like inventing to you. He wouldn't invent a power to someone he was uncertain of. He would only invent it to someone whose alignment he was very certain of.

That analogy does not work, because I'm the only one who can use them. It's an investment that costs nothing.

It's not about cost, it's about risk. If a town slot had an ability to give out a double vote to as many people as they wanted to, they wouldn't give it to anyone they're uncertain of because of the risk inherent in giving power to an unknown.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this. It doesn't matter that only you can use it and he loses nothing. He's concerned about what you might gain.

-Cerb

Pedit: Drixx, now you're being dumb too. How is this any different from flum and skybirds doing x gives me power claims? Are we going to just let them do whatever gets them power too withiut any consensus regarding their alignment?

Bah. Got caught up in the moment while keeping up with the posts on my phone and responded there instead of on the computer.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, these adventure lists are shitty. They're all "Yes, I would pick the people who have been talking the most and who people have expressed the most thoughts on that aren't negative"

Like. Idk, it doesn't feel good to me that there are so many consistencies in the lists that are being given out.

-Cerb

so who wld you like to adventure with cerb? if you think the lists provided so far are based on who is talking the most then mebbe you cld provide 1 yourself and show us the way?

I will as soon as wgeurts tells me who he actually thinks is town? Once we've established that, I'll pick the players who have been strong as town in my experience, within that group.


Without actually doing so though, I would adventure with everyone who has expressed a desire thus far to go on adventures, starting with whoever made the first claim of such a desire. The point is for people to have fun, so I would enable them having fun. ^^

So, in other words, dunno right now, ask again later? (This, btw, is the sort of question that Titus is mistaking your original question for. You gave me this big fucking open ended thing asking that I evaluate the entire game and the whole player list and tell you who I feel is the most town, basically. I'm not going to go do that.)

-Cerb

pedit: Drixx: So, null reads should be given powers? If you were an inventor who had no idea what his inventions would be, but could just choose a person to receive it, and only ONE person was a possible target, who happened to also be a null read, would you give your invention of unknown use to them?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Umm, we wouldn't get two people claiming that unless we were in lylo. Like...why would scum deliberatley create a 1v1 or risk it happening by fake claiming? That's the reason why it's best to get the names now, and have the individuals who have those names claim. Maybe they get targeted by scum, maybe they don't, either way scum have to choose to leave the pool of potential scum smaller, or risk having their kills stopped by protectives.

-Cerb

pedit: Which words did I put in your mouth? I"m not sure which post you're referring to Drixx?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If he's the only one who can use rings,

and he doesn't scum up his slot

, then there's no reason not to see what he does, yeah? That strikes me as a pretty good way to firm up a read in one direction or the other, in fact.

@R&L - Don't go all silent now. You claimed you knew the flavor names of some of town. There's zero reason to keep that to yourself. The people you name can claim or not claim. Like I said before, if we get two people claiming to be one of the characters you say is town, then we have a pretty good situation. We can test

you

, and worst case with conflicting claims is a 1-for-1 trade, which I'm pretty sure is in our favor.

In this post, you declared that not having scummed up your slot and being the only one who can use something, means you should be given the power.

That's very precise wording. "Hasn't scummed up his slot"

You didn't say "has obvtowned", like you did earlier.

Let's just get this straight.

If the power is usable by multiple people, it should only go to the obvtown.

If the power is only usable by a single person, it should go to that person so long as they haven't scummed up their slot.

Is that what you meant? The level of confidence required is lowered if the person receiving the power is the only option?

-Cerb

pedit: DP read my many many posts stating I'm not going to be answering that question until after my other head actually reads the game and tells me what he thinks.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Like I said Drixx, you said two separate things.

You said if he was obvtown, you would give him the rings, when you thought anyone could use them.

Once he told you only *he* could use them, the level of confidence you needed to have in him became lower, and he only needed to have not scummed up his slot.

If that's the case, it's fine, I just think it's dumb.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I love you Drixx. Thank you for actually explaining who exactly you had a problem with and why, instead of just fucking unvoting while vaguely saying you didn't like the wagon. Much appreciated.

What I was trying to nail down was the fact that I did not put words in your friggin mouth man. You said, yourself, that in x situation, you would do one thing, and in y situation, you would do another. That's really all. I don't think you actually mean that you would act differently in each of those situations, so I'm trying to determine which it really is.

I feel like you're all making the foolish assumption that R&L's names are somehow indicative of the alignment of those who claimed them until R&L has flipped themselves?

-Cerb

Hi EP. Good luck catching up.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I wasn't being sarcastic Titus. I realize that. I was being appreciative of the fact that Drixx gave thoughts on both of the other slots on the wagon he was moving away from. I'm not always a sarcastic ass guys. :-/ I express sincere appreciation for people doing things I like, while being an ass to those who do things I think are terrible.

Yes, DP, I agree with what you're saying about what has to happen with regards to the names R&L have saved up. I believe, however, that you're focusing too much on a unlikely marginal benefit.

We need there to be all town on the adventure.
We need R&L to be town.
We need people to try to lynch those slots.
We need the push on those slots to happen before they would otherwise claim.

If all those things don't happen, then the marginal benefit of being able to analyze who was pushing someone who is now known to be conftown doesn't exist. I'd prefer to take them off the mislynch table now, and force scum to shoot them at some point, especially if they're strong, threatening players. As I said, better chance for our protective roles to do their jobs.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

EBWOP; "Both of the slots involved in the wagon"

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That's all you needed to say. Now Drixx just has to decide if he thinks you're town or scum, and thus whether or not something good is actually going to happen rather than something bad. :p

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

*waves hands*
*points to drixx*
*points to luminous*

Poor EP. Replace in and end up with a post restriction.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sensei: you still don't know if it lead back to a scum topic or a hydra topic. All Drixx knows is how that particular error happened, but that post could have come from any topic other than this one.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, so you know things too ABR?

And, this is better.

Errant, Wave 5 times if mulple items in that list are true.

THEN.


Wave 6 times if the first and second are true
Wave 7 times if the first and third are true
Wave 8 times if the second and third are true.
Wave 9 times if ALL of the items are true.

Also, ignore ABR's post quoted below.

quote="In post 1343, Albert B. Rampage"]Wave once if it wears out over time / day phase

Wave twice if it wears off under a non time related condition[/quote]


Instead of waving in response to his post, nod that number of times.

ABR, don't ask him multiple questions using the same conditions for answering, until we've determined if he can quote posts or not.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Luminous is an adventure place pretty sure.

Yes. He's telling Drixx to go to Luminous.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Wiki says Rouge is recruited at Luminous.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Let's test out your voting capabilities, vote me for MC and vote klingon.

If you're going to test out the voting, you should do so on someone with no votes.

You should vote me for both MC and as the lynch for today, then remove those votes after the vote count, unless you feel either one should remain.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sorry all for not being around and posting, I've bad an awful migraine today and I can only guess how long it will last. Just want to let everyone know I haven't forgotten about this game and to say I will be merrily annoyed if you end this day before I'm back. (Half-joking)
Cerb can pick this up for me.

<3 wgeurts. Feel better man

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm back, albeit over 30 pages behind!
Catching up, any questions you want answered now though?
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hello all. Been, well, not prioritizing this. I think there were a couple allegations levelled at this slot, or at least questioning of something which is super basic play for me, so I'll address that.

Yosarian: Earlier you said you found it suspect that 1) I questioned giving abilities to unknown quantities, and 2) I refused to offer up reads without consulting with my other head. With regards to 1, I maintain that your comparison of my words to "roleblocking someone you're not scumreading"(phrasing mine, I did not double check what he said exactly, but that was the intent of his phrasing) is deceptive, and such willful repetition of something which is clearly false strikes me as an attempt to create a negative consensus on my slot without having to outright attack us. Giving power to an unknown, regardless of whether or not said power is usable by anyone else, is stupid. That's all I have to say on the matter, those who go on the adventure may do with their rings what they please, but until I, at least, have good cause to townread you, I will oppose giving you any rings. The same goes for the hammerers. Until I see cause for them to be townread, I will actively work to ensure there are multiple people ready to vote at once when the time comes for a hammer, to ensure a hammer doesn't go to someone we mean to keep it from. With regards to them, however, ignoring all other play, the fact that they claimed their desire to have hammers when they could have just taken them once the opportunity came up, gives them a bit more credit than you have. Now, as for 2, this particular point about my playstyle was the reason for the suspicion levelled at my play by DP, Drixx, and spifflop before he passed on. I don't offer reads until we have flips/hard data in terms of confirmed alignments. As I said before, until we begin to gain such data, I can easily find reasoning to justify someones play as either town *or* scum, and do so. It isn't until we gain more information and I become able to sift through those options and determine what lines of play are extremely unlikely that I offer up hard reads on slots. My other head is different. he freely analyzes and judges individuals on D1, and so I told him I'm following his lead on these things at this stage of the game. THAT is why you get to wait for him to show up before you get to hear any solid reads from us.

Beyond that, I've been reading, I'm aware of all the stuff you guys are talking about, AA9 is all fluff posting so I don't have any objections to a lynch on said slot, but there's also nothing innately scummy in their posting, except insofar as lack of content is scummy.You've all heard my stance with regards to R&L sharing the information they claim they have. Are there any other pressing topics of conversation I may have neglected to address? I read the bulk of what was posted last night in bed and didn't feel like logging in to this account at that time, so I may have forgotten something.

And, as always, like wgeurts said, if you want to hear me talk about something, ask me about it.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm obviously removing your post restriction tonight EP. Like ... there's literally no reason for me to do anything else.

He's asking you who you would choose on an adventuring party if he voted you for MC tomorrow.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cooldog what's your read on cucumbers?

Oh shit, YOU were the one who questioned my insistence on getting feedback from wgeurts! Shit. I think? Sorry. I was sure yos was the one who has said that. I think it was you, so like, go look at the second point of my last post about my general style etc.

I'm also curious about CoolDogs read on me, because it's interesting to see what people think my intentions were with my posts.

Also, nobody has tried to interact with me today. Not one person.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

<snip Drixx being Drixx>

But what if they're in between?

I already said that I thought giving someone one ability (so long as I can be fairly sure it's not super dangerous) at a time and seeing how they actually use it would help. But even then, clever scum who is being town read could use the powers leashed until the time is right to spring the trap. I don't think there's an excluded middle ground here. I think there's "That guy is town. I'm giving him stuff." and there's "That guy is scum, I'm pushing him to be lynched right freaking now" and then there's

"I'm not sure".

Basically what he said. He gets me. I understand your perspective Yosarian, I simply feel it's too black and white, and I pretty much always err on the side of caution when it comes to risking giving the scum team any further advantages. It's why I do everything in my power to keep as much information as possible limited to town, except when said information can be used to constrain the likely moves scum will make and thus be made advantageous when shared with everyone.

Oh, and also, sorry Yosarian, that post I originally made about this, the second point with regards to the my other head was not meant for you. I thought you had said something which I, upon seeing him post, remembered sensei had actually said. I apologize if it distracted from what I was getting at.

You were right though, this is all mechanical nonsense that's basically irrelevant to the actual objectives of the game.

-Cerb

pedit: sweet, we post a lot of content.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

<snip stuff Mollie said>

Ok. I have a question for you, then, because there was one thing about your play I didn't really get.

Your crusade against Albert for MC; was that partly because you didn't think he would want to bring you along adventuring?

I mean, if so, that's on some level understandable, but it seems anti-town.

If not, then I don't really get what you were trying to do. I mean, I get that you were worried Albert was biased against you, but if so, so what? The MC doesn't have any power except picking people to go on an adventure with him, and I guess whatever powers he gains on an adventure. If you didn't really think he was scum, then why were you so worried about him becoming MC?

I mean, you just put so much effort and energy into it, and I don't understand why.

<snip more stuff mollie said and yosarian responded to>

I second this question. I asked you guys umm, well, shortly after the wall of anti ABR, which read to me like a wall of ABR is scum, why you weren't voting him/weren't just coming right out and calling him scum, and I did not receive a response. Unless I missed it.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I did miss a few pages and didn't bother. If it was there maybe. My bad but Flum if you are telling the truth sky was lying,. Fact is one of you certainly is.

This is what I think happened

I believe the game has sone of the Mc given as fake claims. One of you has such fake claim. Unaware of the game story claimed role and using the fake claim both claimed that you main characters.

This is dumb. There is absolutely no way any scum was given a fake claim that wasn't safe from counterclaims. It's more likely that Skybird isn't familiar with the game flavor and read her wiki on her character and thought they were a MC.

Seriously. How stupid would it be to be scum caught because the mod gave you a fake claim that was a role someone else already had.

Also ABR: First, I'm disappointed that I have fallen from your good graces and am no longer worthy of adventuring with you, but I understand that sometimes leaders must make hard choices, and this was surely one of them. With that said, I have two comments. First of all, your claim is shit. It makes no sense. You were already the person most likely to be mc, with moderate opposition but nothing insurmountable. Why would you claim the way you just did? It's horrible and I hate that you did it. Its also fairly dumb for scum to do, so...meh. Unless it's a gambit to get killed...or a scum gambit of "too dumb to be scum"...bleh. anyways, second point: if you become MC, perhaps a reasonable compromise would be a party with you at it's head, but with composition of DP's choice, since they said they don't trust your judgment. I think their last proposed party list was terrible too though, so hmm.

Also, your party list is fantastic I believe.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I did miss a few pages and didn't bother. If it was there maybe. My bad but Flum if you are telling the truth sky was lying,. Fact is one of you certainly is.

This is what I think happened

I believe the game has sone of the Mc given as fake claims. One of you has such fake claim. Unaware of the game story claimed role and using the fake claim both claimed that you main characters.

This is dumb. There is absolutely no way any scum was given a fake claim that wasn't safe from counterclaims. It's more likely that Skybird isn't familiar with the game flavor and read her wiki on her character and thought they were a MC.

Seriously. How stupid would it be to be scum caught because the mod gave you a fake claim that was a role someone else already had.

Also ABR: First, I'm disappointed that I have fallen from your good graces and am no longer worthy of adventuring with you, but I understand that sometimes leaders must make hard choices, and this was surely one of them. With that said, I have two comments. First of all, your claim is shit. It makes no sense. You were already the person most likely to be mc, with moderate opposition but nothing insurmountable. Why would you claim the way you just did? It's horrible and I hate that you did it. Its also fairly dumb for scum to do, so...meh. Unless it's a gambit to get killed...or a scum gambit of "too dumb to be scum"...bleh. anyways, second point: if you become MC, perhaps a reasonable compromise would be a party with you at it's head, but with composition of DP's choice, since they said they don't trust your judgment. I think their last proposed party list was terrible too though, so hmm.

Also, your party list is fantastic I believe.

-Cerb

Knew I was forgetting something...

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cucumber
Not what I am saying.

Jesus

I said some

Game has 7 mc say 5 are given to town 2 as safe claims.

They both claimed their real role but in an attempt to get towncred one also claimed to be a main character based on the fake claim they have.

But WHY would they risk that? It's stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Main Character: DrippingGoofball

VOTE: Cooldog

Why do you want DrippingGoofball as MC? Throwing MC votes around seems like a bad idea.

Because I haven't had the honor of playing a game with DrippingGoofball in years, and she's a badass from top to bottom. I want her to put together a party of heroes to go adventuring. I love everything about this game.

Either this or the claim is a lie. I also don't feel your activity early on, or the way you played, seemed to indicate you had any intention of "laying low".

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Scum can kill anyone they want N1 except for Drixx. That's a scary thought.

You never explained why this was scary.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Bleh, already sick of isoing, like 15 posts into ABR. Going to sleep now.

DP: early in the game you said you'd have a suggestion for where Drixx should visit. Did that suggestion ever get shared with everyone? Why or why not?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hey I am not saying it was a good strategy on their part. And lacking flavour knowledge may so that.

I once claimed to be not scourge in a game where scourge where the game town. It happens.
~Lina

Meh, I refuse to assume scum are incompetent. :/

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yeah. I don't understand their thought process.
I'm not sure if I see any scum motive in it though.

Whose thought process? There's no scum motive behind any aspect of what's currently being discussed, except possibly the questions I've asked ABR.

Also, flum, you know, if you had stayed in inorganic instead of getting replaced by constantine, we would have crushed that game man. :p

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Shiro, carelessness=incompetence. This is a forum based game. You have DAYS to make posts. If you're letting yourself be careless as scum, you are incompetent.

-Cerb

Pedit: BUT WHY!! It's so unnecessary!!! And claiming mc doesn't actually solve any of the problems people maybe have with them!! Everyone is aware that flavor is certainly my not alignment indicative.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Maxwell: there was a question for me? I already said a bit asking him to explain the apparent contradiction in his early game play and current campaign to be MC, and to explain why he claimed when it doesn't make sense. If you had a question with regards to my stance on that, I'd have to say I think it should be pretty obvious that my stance is. If you have another question, please repeat it.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

17 fudge pages, this marathon is almost over.
Also if we aren't already:

MC: ABR

I have no problems with this though discussing the team to optimise it may be a thing once I've finished.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Stop posting so much!
Anyway Sensei is scum and a lynch there would be good, await my full catch-up post when I'm done reading up for more reads and thoughts on everything.
Stay tuned.

Woops, didn't realise I slipped here.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You're not as strong a town read as you were earlier in the game. Still leaning town on your slot, but less confident; much of your recent stuff has been nullish at best, like your campaign against ABR as MC to the point of calling people scum for voting for him.

Also less confident about CC then i was a few pages ago. His attempt to manipulate Drixx into not giving me rings, even though CC never actually has said anything about my alignment at all, seems scummy.

Have the rings for all I care, what your role does will become evident later game and Cerb is just being cautious. I also have you as town read which doesn't hurt.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR has so far mostly pinged town, the occasional thing here and there has made me wonder though as you will read in my catch-up later. I'll keep reading anyway.
I wouldn't mind having some others as MC though and if people are willing to join me on that what I post said catch-up I may consider switching.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

When I post*

[The Cool Cucumbers]

When did hiplop join this game...?

tell me how that is remotely important?

I mean what is the net worth of info finding that you are trying to find here.

in other newz, I think I hate every1 except titus. and some other pple.

this is a new and interesting way to scumhunt I will be composing a list of pple I hate and pple I don't.

no1 shld ever try to be on any list ever.

I asked titus to create a scum!gif of abr cos I thought it wld be funny.

guess what came up!

Am I on the hate list?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I agree this day just needs to end. I want to actually be able to talk to Errant.

That's not a good mentality to have.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I agree this day just needs to end. I want to actually be able to talk to Errant.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww

Oh good, someone else noticed.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Ooh is she lucky and stationed in an island or bleh in Athens?( I mean Athens is awesome but the islands have their own flair)

Athens, I think.

Beep! I forget your reads if RaL is town. Can you suppose she's town and do me a readwall with that perspective? She's town btw.

*bats eyelashes*

~Titus

Remember that Games of Thrones over at SC2? The abandoned one with 6 factions?

Some of the weird interactions here have me thinking this could be a similar setup. Me reading ABR, and R&L as Scum, and them reading each other as Scum would suggest 3 factions, right?

But if R&L are Town (excluding weirdness from other players) then it's more likely that this is a standard 2-faction game.

Maybe some of the weird interactions could relate to the signup thread and that PM from Varsoon asking us to work out our animosities before the game started. It looks like there are a few people here that don't like each other.

So, from that pov, my readslist would need a redo...

What

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Lowkey Don't bother. ABR won't keep up any of his deals. He said he'd give me the party slot and he shows no intention of doing so. He's so blatantly anti-town at this point it's not even funny.

I disagree. I think his posts are oozing town. I'm just not sure if I can trust that he's not faking it. That claim that he made was completely unnecessary. He was running away with votes for being MC, so why make that series of posts? There was literally no reason for it. Like ... there's the super obvious idea that he

wants

to draw the NK tonight, but only a scum team full of people holding idiot balls would leave him alive if he's town after he made the claim he did. He put himself on a clock to deliver scum, and one doesn't do that lightly.

It feels more like a mistake to me than a gambit

, but ABR is tricksie.

Yes, but the question is, what type of mistake? Is it a scum mistake of drawing unnecessary attention to himself by exhibiting behavior that contradicts previous play? Or is it a town mistake of feeling he HAD to make that claim right now or else the sentiment favoring him as MC would slip away?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Done reading up, ISO'ing everyone one final time then I'll make a giant ass wall.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You aren't the only one who saw it. You're just the only one who finds it even the slightest bit likely that they made a play like that as scum.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Okay, so I just read Skybirds ISO, specifically looking for something to support this BS you keep pushing here.

They make NO mention of being a half-mystic, they attack the idea that being a MC makes someone town, AND they don't claim they are town, they propose a hypothetical of "What woud you say if I told you I was a MC".

Dude, you're super duper misreading all of this Go reread her iso. It's short.

With that said though, partway through his catchup wgeurts said skybird was among the people he wanted lynched today, but he didn't tell me why, sooo....all I can say is your particular reason for being suspicious is bullshit. IDK about any other reasons to think they're scum.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

In context, it looks to me like there was some discussion happening about the possibility of MC's being more likely to be town than not, and she was seeing if you were using the MC claim as a reason to townread people who you otherwise didn't have reason to townread, and wanted to see how such a claim would change your read on her.

I might be misunderstanding, of course, but that's my interpretation of those particular posts.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Okay, so I just read Skybirds ISO, specifically looking for something to support this BS you keep pushing here.

They make NO mention of being a half-mystic, they attack the idea that being a MC makes someone town, AND they don't claim they are town, they propose a hypothetical of "What woud you say if I told you I was a MC".

Dude, you're super duper misreading all of this Go reread her iso. It's short.

With that said though, partway through his catchup wgeurts said skybird was among the people he wanted lynched today, but he didn't tell me why, sooo....all I can say is your particular reason for being suspicious is bullshit. IDK about any other reasons to think they're scum.

-Cerb

oh god cerb finally I get a town signal from you thank you thank you thank you

you have no idea how relieved I am. I hated lying to you in ff7 and I am kinda surprised that you aren't eyeball deep in paranoia right now and that was 1 of the things that was making me nervous about you. I think you are town tho yaye!

I deserved to lose in FF7. I was super disengaged and just couldn't put in the energy to actually read through the game properly. I'm normally way tougher on 1) strong players who mysteriously live to the late game, and 2)players who aren't providing real content. My super chill attitude about the game meant I just didn't go back and seriously try to see if I could clear anyone, and meant I didn't have a strong enough stance on anything to actually push anything. Anyways...no feeling bad about deception as scum.

ABR: WHERE ARE YOU WHY DID YOU DISAPPEAR WHEN PEOPLE STARTED QUESTIONING YOU I DON'T LIKE IT STOP IT STOP IT.

-Cerb

pedit: He means he is going to consider L-1 death, so he wants people to give him intent to L-1 him, and he is going to claim at L-2.

pedit x2: Seriously itlepip? Out of all the potential aspects of your role you might choose to reveal, the one that allows shit like R&L claiming the names they believe are guaranteed town to a smaller pool of players is what decide to claim? :-/

[The Cool Cucumbers]

actually fuck it, that post was probably enough to let them figure it out. I am rouge (whatever the fuck that tells you), obviously blue can hammer me and a shit ton of magic shit. I don't know blue's alignment so I didn't want to get to l-1 and get quickhammered. Blue is probably between sky and flum so if I die in the night, know that one of them might get magic depending on how their thing interacts (mine only works if I am on their wagon, but then I have no killing abilities so not sure if it is true for them as well).

What makes you believe that Blue would have known who you were prior to you making that statement? If Blue didn't know who you were, there is no reason why they would have quickhammered you IF they are town. You'd only be "effectively hated" if they were scum, or if they were town and VERY sure you were scum.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

<snip>

ABR not responding to my question or concern, even though he actually quoted a post of Drixx's related to this same issue.

<snip>

Here it is again ABR. I think my other head likes you, but like...I don't like inconsistency or being ignored when I ask you about stuff.

(also, max might be scum, I guess, sure. I don't know, he confuses me, I can't read him for shit)

Main Character: DrippingGoofball

VOTE: Cooldog

Why do you want DrippingGoofball as MC? Throwing MC votes around seems like a bad idea.

Because I haven't had the honor of playing a game with DrippingGoofball in years, and she's a badass from top to bottom. I want her to put together a party of heroes to go adventuring. I love everything about this game.

Either this or the claim is a lie. I also don't feel your activity early on, or the way you played, seemed to indicate you had any intention of "laying low".

-Cerb

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Am I the only fucking person in this game who reads the fucking mechanics? Did you miss, DP, that in your quoted post from Varsoon, it specifically says that the superpowering of abilities due to adventuring together and targeting the same person...doesn't extend to factional abilities?

Like, say, a scum kill? I mean, yes, if they have another extra kill of some sort, AND they only get to use it on D1, AND they want to shoot someone who is likely protected, then, sure.

But that's a lot of things that need to be true for you to possibly be correct.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Am I the only fucking person in this game who reads the fucking mechanics? Did you miss, DP, that in your quoted post from Varsoon, it specifically says that the superpowering of abilities due to adventuring together and targeting the same person...doesn't extend to factional abilities?

Like, say, a scum kill? I mean, yes, if they have another extra kill of some sort, AND they only get to use it on D1, AND they want to shoot someone who is likely protected, then, sure.

But that's a lot of things that need to be true for you to possibly be correct.

-Cerb

Strongman is not a factional ability in most Varsoon setups. I read. I was actually expecting that to be ABR's comeback.

OMG WHY THE HELL DO THEY NEED TO SUPER POWEREDNESS IF THEY'RE ALREADY USING A FRIGGIN STRONGMAN KILL????


Like wtf? Unless you're saying, specifically, that ABR is trying to get a specific team of people with him, just so he has two scum, so THEY CAN FUCKING SHOOT HIM BECAUSE STRONGMAN WOULD KILL ANYBODY FUCKING ELSE WHO ISN'T THE MC.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Okay, a shitload was said, skybird/itlepip is exactly what I expected given R&L forced me to pay attention to something and identify that Skybird wasn't claiming asellus and given I'm currently playing blues story in saga frontier. :p but...I'm not gonna worry about that because one thing is irritating the hell out of me.

DP: your understanding of the MC protection and how it is bypassed is wrong. I don't care about anything else in your role, but the games setup clearly states that the MC may ONLY die if targeted by two members of his party, one of whom uses a NON FACTIONAL killing ability. Shit is basic yo, I don't understand how you keep getting it wrong.

Also, umm, I think Yosarian pretty much told you exactly how the mechanic works, and you told him he was wrong, so, well, I have to assume you are misunderstanding something. Now if....by some miracle...you are NOT misunderstanding, but still think you suggestion is right, keep reading.

My other points remain: ABRs play only matches titus' suggested plan if they want to kill someone who is protected N2, and have a non-factional kill, BUT, the need for being mc/in the party only applies if their non-factional kill sint a strongman, since a strongman could be assumed to be lethal in almost all situations.

So, even in the improbable event that those things are all true....WHY does scum!ABR put himself so far out there just to get control of this party? Why does scum!ABR make an unsolicited claim and draw unnecessary suspicion to himself? I mean, maybe he's scum, but I can't believe you guys seriously believe he's going out on a fucking limb here in order to....get a guaranteed kill on N2.

Like, seriously? THAT'S the payoff?


TL;DR: DP's thoughts about ABR's plan are dumb and wrong, regardless of what their role is, because the mechanics SIMPLY DO NOT WORK in the fashion they seem to feel they do, and even if they do realize how the mechanics work and are just expressing it poorly, it's a shitload of work and risk, especially for scum!abr, with very little gain.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If the party ever groups up on a target (two or more party members target the same player during the same day or night phase) then the abilities that they use on that player will always affect that player without fail--this does not extend to factional abilities.

This is the ONLY way the Main Character can die aside from being lynched in LYLO.

What is the 'Main Character'?
The Main Character, referred to as the 'MC' from here on out, is a temporary modifier that a player can gain. The MC is immune to ALL killing actions (including strongman, treestump, etc.) and may not be lynched (except for in LYLO). The identity of the MC will be public at all times, as will the identity of his chosen Party.

-How does a MC die?

The MC can

only

be killed via two or more players on the party targeting the MC (one of these players must submit a killing action)

. When multiple Party Members submit actions on the same target, all of their actions see 'upgraded priority' and will resolve before any other actions in NAR. Actions with this 'upgraded priority' still follow their own NAR structure, so if one Party member kills the MC and another doctor-protects the MC, the doc shot will still protect from the kill.

This does not extend to factional abilities/kills

. This is the ONLY way the Main Character can die aside from being lynched in LYLO.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Anyways, none of the scenarios you listed ARE THINGS THAT REQUIRE THE EMPOWERMENT OF BEING PART OF THE PARTY. Well, except for murdering the unmurderable.

Also, we haven't even had any conflicts Titus. I <3 you and you're one of my favorites.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, there are lots of other good reasons for not making scum MC like the fact he can then adventure with his buddies and give them all powers (depending on how much risk the scum is willing to take).

Make a case that ABR is scum based on something other then his roleclaim (which I don't have a problem with) and if you convince me that he might be, I'll change my MC vote.

I absolutely agree. I just think the argument that he's trying to get two scum on the team in order to multitarget and get guaranteed kills and that's why the composition always looks so weird (which, btw, is a different conversation, cause wtf do you mean by weird???)is both based on an incorrect interpretation of the mechanicsx and stupid even if it were based on the correct interpretation.

Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224

Yes I am very much curious about why ABR claimed the first person on the chosen MCs party list would become MC in the event of their death.

-Cerb

Pedit: of course, but that isn't what you originally said. I'm in bed and lazy Titus, don't make me go iso you, but in pretty damn sure you said you thought he wanted multiple scum in the party to kill people, NOT to guarantee other combinations of powers work well.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, there are lots of other good reasons for not making scum MC like the fact he can then adventure with his buddies and give them all powers (depending on how much risk the scum is willing to take).

Make a case that ABR is scum based on something other then his roleclaim (which I don't have a problem with) and if you convince me that he might be, I'll change my MC vote.

I absolutely agree. I just think the argument that he's trying to get two scum on the team in order to multitarget and get guaranteed kills and that's why the composition always looks so weird (which, btw, is a different conversation, cause wtf do you mean by weird???)is both based on an incorrect interpretation of the mechanicsx and stupid even if it were based on the correct interpretation.

Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224

Yes I am very much curious about why ABR claimed the first person on the chosen MCs party list would become MC in the event of their death.

-Cerb

Pedit: of course, but that isn't what you originally said. I'm in bed and lazy Titus, don't make me go iso you, but in pretty damn sure you said you thought he wanted multiple scum in the party to kill people, NOT to guarantee other combinations of powers work well.

Let's suppose I did, because I like revealing as much of the scumplan as possible.

I think it's pretty damn obvious RaL is unmurderable and every protective role and their brother is going there tonight.

ABR says that RaL should not claim conftowns and tell them to a trusted hood. Yet he makes no attempt to include RaL in his party, even after kicking me off. He can't then very well claim that his non inclusion is an attempt to work with me, because he's now taking the position we can't work together.

Having this conversation is causing me to post more. So I am going to ask you to trust me again. I should be limiting my posting so that when eventually either a) Mollie and I can chain lynch the scumteam or b) I nail their asses to the wall in Titus fashion.

Trust me until I am wrong if you townread us.

~Titus

The point of R&L being unmurderable tonight is irrelevant to the conversation? ABR won't have MC until D2, his party won't have the opportunity to use "super adventuring party multi-targeting" techniques until N2, so R&L's vulnerability to such, if you were right, wouldn't be an issue until then. N2. Not N1. N2.

And, honestly, this has NOTHING to do with trust, and everything to do with me telling you that the mechanics of the game, as expressed to everyone, say you were wrong in your original suggestion for what ABR's plan is.

Yosarian and Cerberus-hydra, can you tell me why you're voting Albert for MC? If I remember correctly, you haven't given any decent reason on that.

Also, anyone not voting Albert for MC, I'd

highly

suggest that you vote Drixx for MC. He's likely town (since scum is unlikely first MC), so he'd be a smart choice for MC.

IDK why wgeurts voted for ABR originally, he made that vote before he had fully caught up. I don't care enough to change it, because it doesn't matter until the moment of lynch, which we are far from. I do know that I pointed out the contradictions of ABR to wgeurts, and he was of yosarians opinion, that basically it's fine, if ABR turns out to be lying scum he'll be dead on D3/D4 after he fails to produce scum for us.

Okay, a shitload was said, skybird/itlepip is exactly what I expected given R&L forced me to pay attention to something and identify that Skybird wasn't claiming asellus and given I'm currently playing blues story in saga frontier. :p but...I'm not gonna worry about that because one thing is irritating the hell out of me.

DP: your understanding of the MC protection and how it is bypassed is wrong. I don't care about anything else in your role, but the games setup clearly states that the MC may ONLY die if targeted by two members of his party, one of whom uses a NON FACTIONAL killing ability. Shit is basic yo, I don't understand how you keep getting it wrong.

Also, umm, I think Yosarian pretty much told you exactly how the mechanic works, and you told him he was wrong, so, well, I have to assume you are misunderstanding something. Now if....by some miracle...you are NOT misunderstanding, but still think you suggestion is right, keep reading.

My other points remain: ABRs play only matches titus' suggested plan if they want to kill someone who is protected N2, and have a non-factional kill, BUT, the need for being mc/in the party only applies if their non-factional kill sint a strongman, since a strongman could be assumed to be lethal in almost all situations.

So, even in the improbable event that those things are all true....WHY does scum!ABR put himself so far out there just to get control of this party? Why does scum!ABR make an unsolicited claim and draw unnecessary suspicion to himself? I mean, maybe he's scum, but I can't believe you guys seriously believe he's going out on a fucking limb here in order to....get a guaranteed kill on N2.

Like, seriously? THAT'S the payoff?


TL;DR: DP's thoughts about ABR's plan are dumb and wrong, regardless of what their role is, because the mechanics SIMPLY DO NOT WORK in the fashion they seem to feel they do, and even if they do realize how the mechanics work and are just expressing it poorly, it's a shitload of work and risk, especially for scum!abr, with very little gain.

-Cerb

okay I am not gonna talk to you if you are gonna be a jerk.

I thought the exact same thing that you guys thought and argued with titus over it so we asked for clarification. you are simply gonna have to accept the fact we know more than you. period fucking end of story. scum will want their team in the party.

@ yoyo

this isn't coming from me being emotionally compromised. I was giving abr a pass, titus was the who was all over him. I used the exact same arguments that are using. then a piece of the puzzle fell into place. and it isn't that he is campaigning it is how he is going about it. he told diamond that he wld put diamond in the party if diamond voted him and then he didn't despite diamond being a strong town read. stop treating me like I am incapable of being objective cos I can be. I once got in the nastiest bloodiest fight I have ever got into, I mean he was gonna be in my area down from canada and attending a paleontology conference and we had plans to meet up and him and his ta who I also knew and had played mafia with and we cancelled the plans cos we were so mad at each other. he was the doc and I had an inventor's protect and we protected each other despite being mad and scum missed 2 nks.

it was always drilled into my head by both mentors, wc first. I may turn a stark foaming at the mouth ragey person mad at some1 but if they are important to my wc I will do what i can to help/protect them.

titus is like "abr is 100% scum" and I am like "no he isn't" but I am defo seeing some markers here given what I know.

the problem that I am having with abr is his insistence that kewldog be on the team when kewldog stalled a lynch on some1 he was scumreading, is only addressing titus when I have played with kewldog before and it seems he is avoiding interaction.

I'm not being a jerk! The mechanics, as expressed above, contradict the plan your slot has been suggesting is reasonable. I'm pointing that out. Repeatedly. So, let's just get this straight: Are you telling me that the mechanics with regards to the MC and his adventuring party and how targeting multiple effects on a single person guarantees the success of those abilities, as expressed by the moderator, are wrong? Also, ABR has even specifically said he doesn't need to have any particular person on the team. Not sure where you get insistence that cooldog be on the team from that? Has cooldog been in *every* iteration of a potential list that he's given out? If so, okay, reasonable.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Cerberus I don't like that answer. You see he's scummy, and yet you are not only putting it off, but not even offering an alternative. AND you're putting him in a position of power!

I never said I think he's scummy. Not once. I said I see contradictions between his statements in the early game and his actions, and I dislike his unsolicited claim. I've considered unvoting him, but it doesn't fucking matter so I haven't done so. Same reason why wgeurt's RVS vote is still sitting on Drixx.

And, what the hell do you think I meant when I said I wasn't taking the lead here on D1, wgeurts is? Like, whenever he feels up to it we'll talk shit through, until then don't expect me to offer alternatives on anything. I told you guys this already.

Cerb, ABR and I had an exchange awhile back initially when I came back (start with the picture) to prove the very point you were questioning

because many people thought his selection as MC or party was wierd including CoolDog

. I said point blank to ABR that if he wanted to work together, he'd have to keep out CoolDog and Yoyo from the party.

His response was to throw me out from the party despite him thinking I was his second in command and the greatest hydra head since sliced bread.

My point there was to prove the very question you ended with in 2243. CoolDog didn't question his inclusion in the party.

~Titus

I actually think his response to you suggesting he remove cooldog was to state he didn't need anyone in the party, and then some more talk happened, and you upped your demands to removal of yosarian AND cooldog, and that was the point at which he removed you. I get that Cooldog has always been in his parties(apparently, I'd check, but fuck it, whatever), but why couldn't it be yosarian who he needs, if you're right?

I think Mollie can answer that, btw, I'm sure me talking to you and provoking you to keep answering is driving her crazy.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I didn't miss your point. You never asked me a question. you were making points about ABR...so I don't know why the cooldog question was suddenly intended to be directed at us.

I have no answer on cooldog, because I'm not gonna iso him until my break at the earliest, if I do iso him, and I just know nothing he's done has been significant enough that an instant opinion forms in my mind with regards to anything he's done.

I'm quite alright with a Drixx MC for tomorrow.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Starting my posts on everyone:

DiamondSentinel - Leaning Scum

So I didn't have much to say about DS' opening play besides thinking that his post 18 seemed a little off with his "Don't die nastily" and "I'll just end picking a team of all scum so don't choose me as MC", however it's nothing worth assigning alignment to. His mention of Titus is also a little odd and if Pirates ever flips scum we should look back at the interactions here. It improves a little starting with post 32; speculation about whether something is more likely to come from town or scum is a good town minded thing. Sadly it was setup-spec which weakens this all considerably. His anti-lurker thing in 80 is also another small weak tell that points towards being town. All in all, ignoring the weird Titus buddying, his early game play seems to lean slightly towards town. Another thing I have pondered but probably shouldn't be is the fact that Varsoon responded in the manner he did in post 113, here varsoon tells him not to give flavour any alignment indicative worth as he provides fake-claims.
His vote on Flum in 213 is a bit meh seeing how others were also just randomly piling on, could be seen as opportunism. Especially seeing how he only justifies it as a gut read. What does however ease my worry here is the fact that I too was suspicious of Flum at this time as you will read and Cerb has mentioned here and there. 245 just downright confuses me, why he isn't using his vote to push and the fact he doesn't vote someone he knows won't get lynched baffles me. The worst past is that his recent posts indicate he is willing to start a counter-wagon "from scratch" when it is obvious thats unlikely to catch on. Honestly don't know what to make of it besides that it is weird. Could be used as an associative tell later on possibly though. His explanation in 248 really doesn't make it any clearer. It also gets worse, in post 271 he states suspicion of Skybird for voting flum with weak reasoning... while he had been "gut" voting flum a few posts back and only just miraculously went from "hating" Flum's posts with a passion to ???? because the wagon is "wrong". Don't like it, thus assigning it scum points. He's even still scum reading flum for goodness sake, what's wrong with his voting skills?
Thank goodness 292 sheds light on the situation. He thinks Flum is scum but the wagon on him if lead to a lynch will likely end with Flum's flipping town. What, I don't even. And yes he is scum reading flum as stated in the later post 313. Also why does he need someone to back him up as town, let alone a "fall back" he isn't even town reading yet? (314 and 324)
Later posts start looking a bit better, post 552 being an example of a kind of odd post with some town like logic in it. He by the way wants "Flum lynched with fire" in 563 despite the wagon on him being "wrong" and flum likely flipping town because of the "wrong wagon" so that's why he's not voting the person he wants lynched with fire (which he still only calls a gut read for some reason). I completely fail to comprehend his reasoning and actions around flum. The cherry on the top is he goes back to voting him in 576, may I ask DS?
How has his wagon become less "wrong" since you unvoted him?
It doesn't help but ping me as scum trying to escape the slack he was getting for his unvote.

When he finally does give some reasoning for his votes in 684 they are a bit meh, most of them are copied from others and he makes the glorious mistake of not providing evidence to back his claims. I flipping hate when people do that, if we could make it meta that quotes or whatever have to be used when making claims about whatever it would do the town good. I also disagree with his final claim, Flum looks like he doesn't give a crumpets he is getting wagoned and is just becoming annoyed because of it. I really don't see any worry or fear coming from that slot despite DS' statement.
Post 771 also doesn't sit well with me. It's just completely blerg and is worse knowing the fact that R&L was becoming a more globally scum read player around this point. He also dumps another lump of awfulness onto his flum shenanigans when he unvotes in his next post (773) because he "doesn't want an accidental wagon forming" on the play he "wants to lynch with fire". Why is nobody else pushing him for this right now?
You know why this is also opportunistic? Others were also moving of flum around that point!
Why he also 360°'d on his R&L read is also beyond me and I would be more than happy with an explanation for that. Post 786 for the record. He makes some townier posts around here but they are kind of over shadowed by his others. I mean, nobody goes from scum reading someone almost certainly to seeing them as certain town in the space of 5 posts. Or am I mad?

I also don't like how in his further posts he just kind of picks at ABR without really explaining why... him buddying with Titus while doing so doesn't really help. Though the fact he is pushing an unpopular wagon does make me wonder, if he can explain his actions I mentioned earlier so I can see how they could come from town I may be swayed in this point.

@ABR, what makes you town read DS?

1014 he does something that I see scum do a lot. "why me and not x" is something I see way to much as a defense from scum.

This quote from 1316 is another thing that caught my eye: "
You happy now Albert? I'm not voting you. Also, looks like I ought to help you on that MC wagon. MC: Albert, I suppose"
DS just seems to want to appease those the don't go for him and flips seemingly too easily on his reads. I could go on but the essence of his posts is that they don't seem right, there are some that I could assign town motivation to however there are more that look like they come from scum. I wouldn't go as far to say that DS is scum however hes certainly in my scum pool right now, interaction with him should clarify his alignment hopefully.

Now for Klingoncelt

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh shit. wgeurts has showed up. I'm going to go away and let him make a buncha posts because that's probably what he's gonna do.

wgeurts, hit me up in the pt after you post all yo shiz and I read it all.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

At least try to explain what was going on in your head around then in that case. I've seen some moon logic and although I may not agree with how you go to work if you are town I need to know what you are thinking and why.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh shit. wgeurts has showed up. I'm going to go away and let him make a buncha posts because that's probably what he's gonna do.

wgeurts, hit me up in the pt after you post all yo shiz and I read it all.

-Cerb

This will be an ongoing thing, I'm going to eat now and answer any stuff that arises when done.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DS gives me the distinct impression of working alone. Scum usually take sides, sheep, back strong town players, basically doing what Max is doing. That's why I think DS is town. His opposition to me is irrelevent to his alignment, same goes for Titus.

Okay, I can see what you are saying. However wouldn't you say the flum push doesn't seem like this as well as the way he's interacting with Titus?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

As for Rylai, as soon as I found out that Shiro was in that hydra, I completely understood the interactions this game. Shiro in her town games I've seen seems to be a VI/Tragic Hero. Pretty sharp, but never ends up getting anything to work because nobody believes her. Basically like me except actually knows what she's doing.

What would make you scum read shiro?
Also the posts you disliked were made by FA I believe, what's your opinion of this side of the hydra?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DS just strikes me as very confused. I want him in the fold, not in the wild, if that makes sense. The choice is his.

Fair enough

I'm not looking to lynch him anytime soon as I prefer to go after those I'm more confident about. Like Maxwell.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Anyway off to eat home made burgers

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm. Actually, I think I'm totally gonna push ABR out of his MC spot, unless wgeurts tells me not to. So, for now,

MC: Drixx

Unless votes have happened since Varsoons last VC, we're now at 4 Drixx, 7 ABR. DP hasn't voted, they'll vote with me here. 5 Drixx, 7 ABR. So, anybody have any reason why Drixx shouldn't be the MC, given that the mechanics do seem to make it quite unlikely that he's scum, for the same reason why MP is concerned about ABR getting the mc slot?

Varsoon: Does the vote of the person who gets lynched count towards the MC?

This is just cause I kinda wanna do it, and I'm more confident in the mechanical unlikelihood of Drixx being scum than i am of ABR's claim, combined with his weird play.

You can change it back if you want wgeurts, but tell me when when you do.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx will vote me as MC, putting it back to 8 for me, 3 for him. Your actions are pointless.

Oh really? Drixx, would you rather have yourself, who you know to be town, and who will already be down a path towards sparking the more powerful abilities, as the MC tomorrow, or someone who has done the assortment of things ABR has done, and if scum, has a decent possibility of never actually passing on the MC torch?

The MC discussion is detracting from the scumhunting, quite honestly.

Agreed. Of course, that *isn't* what you said before you seemed to have it locked up, now is it?

-Cerb

pedit: yeah, wgeurts might do that. I mean, he already gave me his argument in favor of you, but that was before varsoon clarified the MC thing. You(I think? It may have been someone else, and if it was someone else, I'm a bit less opposed to you. ), at some point earlier in this game, said that you had asked the mod what happened in the event that the selected MC died, you said the first person in their party was the backup, and would become the MC after that. It's possible you misunderstood, or that Varsoon decided he wanted to implement that differently after he thought about it more, but either way...the fact of the matter is now, it's relatively easy for scum to keep control of the party. Obviously that's a risky line, but it's...concerning, that's all. If we're going to possibly have the same person end up as MC all game long, I'd rather it be Drixx.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cerb, you're voting with your lynch vote the same person you're electing MC.

Did you forget where your vote was?

~Titus

Didn't forget, just don't care. That vote was placed back in RVS by wgeurts, and it's meaningless. It'll move when wgeurts tells me where he thinks it should go. (that'll probably be skybird or max, from what he's said over the last few days)

-Cerb

EP, wanna vote Drixx for MC?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Klingoncelt

Well this is an odd read. Klingoncelt is a hard one to read day one due the fact that she posts so darn little content. Apparently those that know her better notice things that lean to the one or the other however my sample size of games played which I call recall is one. Which was also a scum game which may help a little. Anyhow.

Her first vote on ABR isn't too awful, especially seeing how their have been worse votes. The reasoning in 363 is half-decent at least and seems more town minded than scum. The fact she is giving reads early (example: 671) on helps as in Suidoken she avoided giving anything concrete, especially town reads, like the plague. Where (much like Titus has said somewhere) she preferred to lurk and let the town destroy themselves. I also don't think Klingon would be pushing that weird thing where she accuses FA of faking her language barrier. (There is also no way R&L and Kling share a scum alignment.). 1143 is another example of her seemingly sorting the game in her own way.
Honestly, I don't know what to make of klingoncelt right now. I'm leaning town as this play doesn't match her recent scum play I witnessed and caught as she is making pushes (however bad), posting more content *than usual* and is seemingly sorting players... I'm going to have to go back to this read later game.

I know some people were pushing her so I'll take a look at the reasons behind said push as I go through the ISO's. If anyone is willing to quote/summarise their reasons for doing so though that would help.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Ah forgot to add, Klingon is null leaning towards town

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And wgeurts talk to your head tell him why it's better to MC me.

I haven't given him my reasons and reads fully yet so I assure you that will come.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

For one, even if ABR is scum he has promised us scum by day 3.
Now ABR, are you willing to convince me by saying you 100% guarantee this?
As honestly I see no loss if so, we either get scum on a platter or you were lying and we lynch you. Simple.
I also don't doubt for a second you are getting copped tonight either. Your alignment should be pretty clear pretty soon.
Come on people,
What's the problem?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'll take a look at the reasons for Klingons reads again, I also disagree with the second as this a lot more content than the usual Klingon.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Now ABR, are you willing to convince me by saying you 100% guarantee this?

Yes, I 100% guarantee. I promise you if I'm alive Day 3, I will be able to name you one scum. This won't be an ongoing thing for the rest of the game, I can only do it once.

And if you fail we can freely lynch you and you'd place a vote on yourself?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

At least try to explain what was going on in your head around then in that case. I've seen some moon logic and although I may not agree with how you go to work if you are town I need to know what you are thinking and why.
~wgeurts

For me, it's immaterial the reasoning for it. It is evident that certain people have ulterior motives, though which are town is beyond me. I throw things at the wall and see what sticks, and that seems like the most logical thing to do.

DS gives me the distinct impression of working alone. Scum usually take sides, sheep, back strong town players, basically doing what Max is doing. That's why I think DS is town. His opposition to me is irrelevent to his alignment, same goes for Titus.

Okay, I can see what you are saying. However wouldn't you say the flum push doesn't seem like this as well as the way he's interacting with Titus?

Flum push is what it is. I see flum as scum, and that's that.

My interactions with Titus has changed greatly. Admittedly, I saw Titus as a scum hunting pro, but that has changed a lot. I am no longer confident that Titus has skill at doing anything other than being proactive. The results never seem to help.

As for Rylai, it doesn't matter where the posts come from. The fact that the play style is obviously Shiro's town game makes the slot obvious for me.

@Albert Not helpful at all. DGB is not being helpful this game at all, something I associate with her scum game. So no thank you.

Also Diamond, if you were to ignore shiros posts what is your read on R&L?

Also ABR, fair enough. I can't see why we shouldn't so if nobody provides a reason that convinces me otherwise my MC vote is yours.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Diamond, who are your top five town reads plus reasons?
Skybird is also good, as you'll see when I drag myself back to notepad to continue making posts on people.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh wait
I need to chat with cerb about you ABR
See he has drawn our vote back

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Unvote both lynch and MC for now

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I don't care if he busses.
I'm not giving him any town credit for this, a lynched scum is and stays a lynched scum which helps us.
Also,

@ABR: You only needed to be MC today didn't you for your, eh, plan?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@TCC, I don't need any hinky promise to do this. ABR is going to bus a scumbuddy on Day 3.

If you really think so, then shouldn't we let him do it, and revisit the issue of his alignment afterwards?

This

[The Cool Cucumbers]

For one, even if ABR is scum he has promised us scum by day 3.
Now ABR, are you willing to convince me by saying you 100% guarantee this?
As honestly I see no loss if so, we either get scum on a platter or you were lying and we lynch you. Simple.
I also don't doubt for a second you are getting copped tonight either. Your alignment should be pretty clear pretty soon.
Come on people,
What's the problem?

The problem is that the MC is immune to lynch and NK until LYLO. Further, if the elected MC for a day gets Night Killed (before immunity happens), MC reverts to the prior MC.

So ... if ABR is scum and he gets MC, he could literally say "Fooled you idiots. I'm scum. You can't do shit about it!" and be immune to any retribution as long as he never lets anyone with a non-factional killing power into his group.

Wrong, they are only immune while MC

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yos, have you read what I said about Klingon?
What were your reasons for her being scum again?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Doesn't it just become the next player on the party list Drixx?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Doesn't it just become the next player on the party list Drixx?

I thought so too. Mod confirmed that it goes to the previous day's MC.

Gah, this changes matters.
I need to think this over before making a decision now.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

He answered me asking him about FA side of R&L.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm not fucking scum dude, have you ever played a single game with me on this site jesus christ

Enough to learn that 1v1'ing each other every game as town didn't work.
I believe you're town, cerb is less convinced

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yosarian would make a good fifth, would have to talk about Sensei though for town.

Anyhow

ErrantParabola - Leaning Town

How to go about reading this slot... man post-restrictions make things weird. I know Varsoon gives town them more than scum, this is a weak as hell tell though anyway.

Starting with his reads list in post 1391, the list seems pretty genuine. My reads overlap mostly with them, which is a good sign. If people are striving for the same causs you would hope to see similarities, hence I use this as a weak town tell.
Not quite sure what he means in post 1414 though, as well as some of his other posts. He seems to be asking worthwile questions in post 1416 which is good. Other posts indicate that he is trying to form reads and figure people out despite his restriction; like when he asks for mollies town reads (1543) and some others like 1545. He seems to have a thing with Drunken Pirates though.

@ABR, you are going to luminous tonight aren't you if you are MC?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I brain farted; completely forgot about Drixx.
Anyway Titus, any thoughts?
Talk about the game with me

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Just realised.
If Drixx is invincable as MC, how did we vote him?

@Titus,
I'm not sure yet and am doing your ISO right now, nothing I can recall. Anything you disagree with us with?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

We can discuss Skybird/ABR when I get to writing my reasons down for my thoughts, with either you or Mollie.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What has come from your discussion with cerb regarding me?

wgeurts is willing to let me make the call. He wasn't aware of the entirety of the mechanics that related to the MC, and I explained to him that it's not so much that I think you're scum, as I'm not certain enough that you're town, to risk any sort of catastrophic sequence that could lead to scum being constantly in charge of the adventures.

Even if you step down tomorrow, either by choice or not, and scum *don't* shoot your replacement...maybe that just means it's another member of your team. Maybe they will shoot the replacement tomorrow, and ope, look at that, you're still the MC but we don't actually have sufficient reason to really be suspicious of *you* as a result. Like, it's just a massive mess that's best avoided by voting like so.

MC: Drixx

So yeah, I'm not really sure why DP isn't already voting for Drixx as MC. Is there a reason for that? Wasn't this your idea?

How about Yosarian? Given the mechanical effect of having the MC always fall back to the previous person who had it, don't you feel that makes it extremely unlikely that scum were gifted the ability to give themselves powers for AT LEAST two nights in a row?

Anybody else? I can be Drixx's PR agent. ^^

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DAMNIT. That's the problem with posting at work. I type up a post in a notepad, and then I copy it in, and forget to do formatting BS.

MC: Drixx

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

In other words; if if isn't changed that confims we likely have a protective role which should always protect the MC-to-be each night.
Or we have a town aligned vig who can nuke any scum who streaks like that.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

/me waits patiently for the chorus of cries shouting out "Therre's no way he would possible flip out like this if he were scum! That emotion must be real!"

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR
Would claiming break your plan?
As in full claiming?
Using very accurate paraphrasing

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fine, Mollie. You can vote me if you like.


But I have 1 request.


I want Albert to hammer me.

And it is posts likes this that cause me to doubt Diamond's towniness.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So far on the hypothetical Max wagon:

me
Lowkey
pip

Who else wants to enlist?

Me, and I'll bring torches to spice up the mob, pitchforks possibly as well.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I need hugs.

Can we lynch itlepip cuz otherwise rocks fall everyone dies? Moon lasers? The Eiffel tower doing the Macarena?

Ok. I am going to cry here. I am drunk. Scums are ABR. Itlepip. Yoyo. Flum and CoolDog.

Bye.

Is it bad that not a single one of these is one I want lynched right now?
Could you please explain them all, make a case or whatever as this is kind of important.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Eh, I'll have to take a look at 616 before I take your word for it.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That was in response to Titus,
Now I definitely need to read that game.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I need hugs.

Can we lynch itlepip cuz otherwise rocks fall everyone dies? Moon lasers? The Eiffel tower doing the Macarena?

Ok. I am going to cry here. I am drunk. Scums are ABR. Itlepip. Yoyo. Flum and CoolDog.

Bye.

Is it bad that not a single one of these is one I want lynched right now?
Could you please explain them all, make a case or whatever as this is kind of important.

If I could email wav files I would be tempted but that's so in violation of site rules. So I will start with itlepip slot since it has the shortest ISO. I will likely only get through that one before I have to sleep. Slim chance I may not get through that.

I absolutely would love to do this. Do not let me get distracted with shiny objects. Like smack me upside the head with funny GiFs if I am not posting cases.

That's something I'll hold you to, also you seem to be more obsessed with shiny things since you started mentioning them...
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Let's lynch Max now if you're up for it Cool Cucumbers.

I'd prefer to do my ISO dive on him first to finalise my read, patience.
Now to do some more ISO dives.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drunken Pirates - Town

Drunken Pirates, one of the more controversial reads at the moment...

Anyway the first thing I noted is post 115, where Mollie puts ABR down as town for the first time. The two seem to loathe each other, so this is pretty good as I don't feel as scum Mollie would feel the need to state something like this. It's very weak but every little counts I guess. Post 138 then proceeds to back up this by showing Mollie has been thinking about this, thus the town points for showing a game-solving-attitude.
They were also the first ones onto Flum and unlike many others they actually give a little reasoning for this (142). It's not a bad push and at that point I also agreed with it, being somewhat suspicious of Flum myself. Post 155 also is weakly town, the way Mollie interacts with arc in it seems more town motivated than scum. This carries on further into post 195 where their (well, Mollie's) early-game reads are stated and briefly explained. They all seem to make sense and feel naturally developed, thus earning them a few more minor town points.
There is nothing that screams "town" in their opening play, however there are a decent amount of smaller tells that lead to meaning leaning towards town for this section.

Post 300 is the first one that I would call a "town-post". It contains a lot of accurate thoughts and analysis, and doesn't have the same feel Titus' scum posts sometime have. (That, "back-off, I'm boss and if you don't bend to my will you will be the next on the chopping block" one). Trying to clarify what R&L's role does to avoid future problems is also good (370 etc.). This kind of posting carries on until the post (718) where they start voting Max, around this point some questions arise. For starters, they do not provide any reasoning for this vote. Which is strange as they gave plenty of it for their flum vote. Then there's the fact that they no longer want to have Max lynched and he isn't in their scum pool.
What changed?
Why where they scum reading him then?
What then also pops up is them having "no interest" in lynching R&L in post 869 and then in post 885 (16 posts later!) "They may be okay with an R&L lynch going through". Why? Because they town read ABR and want him to be MC. What makes this odd is the fact they are still town reading ABR at this point, thus making this all make not a lot of sense.
Then it gets worse, in post 914 they yet again discredit someone for the

same reasons

despite town reading ABR. I don't get it, so I hope they explain themselves here for me.
(Titus actually continues treating R&L as town in post 929 despite all this.)

Post 932 is where they first start scum reading ABR. What changed their minds isn't clear at this point. What it seems to be (in posts like 956) is that they are starting to scum read him because they so strongly disagree and clash with him in just about every aspect. And I'm not convinced that's a reason to scum read someone... anyway. Their post 1001 outlines the situation quite well.
All in all throughout this their motives seem to be coming from town though, their main aim is to try a get town to work together and as they see ABR someone who is hindering that they see him as a threat. This all makes sense from a town-motivated perspective. My own thoughts on ABR will become clear in my next wall-post a la reads.
To add to this all it becomes clear it's only Titus who has moved to ABR being scum with Mollie saying he is town in post 1029. I also get the feeling Titus was pondering whether he could still be town with what she calls "shit play", particulary because of posts like 1031 and 1041. This thought stream coming from them shows they are trying to figure this game out, which in turn is towny. They also finally start explaining their Maxwell push in posts like 1082.

The next thing that strikes me is the fact that they town read Klingoncelt in post 1150, they had had her as scum until now. What changed their mind on this matter isn't clear to me.
They are also desperate to do anything to prevent ABR from being MC, they even go out of their way to try and have one of their scum reads not do it in post 1156. They literally voted flum the post before in 1155. Now this does strike me as a little odd and could be seen as scum motivated, however I believe that their push against ABR as MC goes beyond just his alignment. I don't doubt for a second that if they believed him to be town they would still oppose it. I'm sorry Titus and Mollie but I get the feeling you are biased in this aspect right now. I feel like I should refer to their 1180 and address it to make my point:

For starters it starts with "why not to trust ABR" and not "why ABR isn't town" or something along those lines, pointing that this isn't about ABR's alignment at all.
Their first point is basically just because he clashes with their slot and disagrees with them on just about everything he cannot be trusted. Now it is day 1, so really what peoples reads are (as long as they are backed up correctly and explained) shouldn't be used to say this person can't be trusted. As lets face it, we cannot check who out of DP and ABR currently has the better reads.
Their second point has more weight, and is something I'm going to address in my post to ABR. Some more transparency from ABR on why he has certain reads would help shed light on his alignment.
The third point is built too much off assumptions and slightly hypocritical. They themselves had twice threatened people with scum reads for aiding ABR, another part if based off the assumption that Flum is scum and has better reasons for being so than R&L and a large part is based off his insults to players which you seem him do as any alignment in any of his games. I'll go into more detail when I make my post on ABR, with quotes and what not as evidence. If DP and ABR are town I'd rather have them working together than this ongoing shit fest. I could carry on mentioning their posts but the essence of them is the same.
I think they are town, I disagree with their reads as off now but look forward to seeing their reasoning behind them. Finally I also think they are biasing themselves towards ABR.
~wgeurts

Pr-edit, will go read your post and see how it checks up with my thoughts on that slot. Thanks!

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also really we should be using the MC party as a town bloc ABR. I'll address this in my post on you but I feel like we could use it more optimally by having everyone state their top four town reads then having the most popular go in or something along the lines of that.
This way we place the party creation in the hands of the town and it becomes a lot harder for scum to sneak places into without looking really town, which is harder for them.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, who in particular is losing sight of their win-condition?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fine then Sensei, as requested I'll start on that. You're an odd one like DS, particularly your early game play felt wrong. I'm leaning more towards town on you right now.
Then I'll do ABR and then AA9's slot.
I was just doing them in order of player-list. But I do them anyway as full transparency helps others develop reads and it gets my head into the game after a catch-up.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, I actually went to the trouble of reading his entire iso in GoD, and yes he never says he read that game, no I didn't bother seeing if/when someone suggested it to him, but...that stuff he's expressed in his iso in this game. He said like a page ago that he read portion of dgbs iso for those games. He's not calling it a "comprehensive meta dive", he's saying he poked around a bit and noticed some things that he's also noticed here. Idk how big of a deal that really is. Feels like you're blowing it out of proportion.
Ofc, my other head reads ds as leaning scum, so, ya know, maybe you're onto something.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Look, its not fucking possible for scum to strongarm the MC. Varsoon has explicitly said he has balanced it around the mechanic, guaranteeing the town a counter to this. This whole "ABR may be eternal MC is false", as well as all conspiracy based around it. I'm willing to trust varsoons skill as a mod.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also it's me wgeurts that's forming reads on Klingon and what not not cerb, you also responded to me and not cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Titus, I'm most interested in your case on Yosarian right now.
CoolDog scum I can see and am already slightly leaning towards.

Also silence is a huge scum tell for Klingon.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DS who are your top scum reads, name the top five please.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR, what is making sure you survive tonight?
As you won't be immune

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And you are not a Bulletproof, as you claimed you would be killed if you weren't elected tonight.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You are being interrogated, get used to it I'd say.
Diamondsentinel, I want you to explain these scum reads the best you can. I couldn't care if its moon logic or not or gut, grab some posts and explain what lead to your scum read. I'm pondering the possibility you are town however the main reason I'm scum reading you is because I can't figure out a town motivation behind your posts, if I can begin to understand how you work that will likely influence my thoughts of you. I don't care if you think you suck at this, throw all you have at me whether it's dirt or pure gold.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Flume is town, DS.

You're only being interrogated because people can't read you well and are unsure of themselves and you.

Also, sidenote, there's another mystery vote in the VC. No real need to speculate on it but I felt I'd point that out.

You explain your flum town read as well please.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Who the hell are "BIT" and "FIRE"

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Look, its not fucking possible for scum to strongarm the MC. Varsoon has explicitly said he has balanced it around the mechanic, guaranteeing the town a counter to this. This whole "ABR may be eternal MC is false", as well as all conspiracy based around it. I'm willing to trust varsoons skill as a mod.

I trust varsoona too as mod except for some reason there seems to be something in the water in the games that he runs, do you re
member directing the day vig on kewldog when I kept telling you he was town and that skullz was scum and lo and behold the day vigged kewldog who flipped innocent child and skullz went on to win the game as scum.

good times.

if you are town I need you to get into a team!mafia frame of existence cos you had a good pulse on the game. I am not reading your long walls cos their is no break up into chunks or paragraphs I am just reading your giant shouty font letters and taking it as those are your reads.

this may sound like a contradiction but I wld love to discuss reads with you, I wld love to discuss reads with any1 at this point cos I am feeling lost and like every1 is scum but I think pple are playing to their role and not necessarily to their wc. but the discussion needs to be in a less tl;dr format cos I lose focus after where the break up into a paragraph shld be.

also this is a good distraction right now! I need it.

My walls are pure unfiltered me, they give all the reasons for why I have my reads. Compare them to what I did when I caught up in team Mafia, those walls I made. I have also long since learned my day one play isn't that good, I do much better with a flip or two. What in particular would you like to talk about? I'm still finalizing my reads and those posts are the results. I'm about to go look at Sensei, ABR, ie and yo again so I'll be back with thoughts on them. I'm planning to compare what I find to the thoughts of others, hence I asked Titus to explain herself and am drilling those I'm unsure of for reads.

I was doing so well >-<

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Look, its not fucking possible for scum to strongarm the MC. Varsoon has explicitly said he has balanced it around the mechanic, guaranteeing the town a counter to this. This whole "ABR may be eternal MC is false", as well as all conspiracy based around it. I'm willing to trust varsoons skill as a mod.

You really need to read what Varsoon posted in his updated info about the MC due to questions people had asked. If not for that clarification, I suspect my own vote would be on ABR, because after all, he made a claim that put him on a clock. I figured worst case he gets himself caught out on the gambit later and we vote someone else MC and then lynch him. Except we

CANNOT

do that.

As long as the scum team can get the night kill done on whomever is voted in as MC to replace a current MC, the current MC simply continues as MC. (For example, if we were to elect say "Bob" to be MC, but the scumbutts kill him tonight, then I would be the MC when toMorrow comes because that's how the rules work. THAT is why once ABR has MC, he may very well hold it for the rest of the game. Combine that with the unnecessary claim and you may understand why people are split at the moment about it).

I doubt it, varsoon balanced the game around this so there ARE counters if Varsoon is anything like I think he is. A doctor is all we need and according to the first post we have files that can treestump people which is also another option. Vigs would work as well.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I told you guys Titus sucked d1. I didn't expect her to be this spectacularly bad.

Stuff like this isn't needed

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You know Sensei, after reviewing your ISO you really are as bad as my notes made out.

[size=#]

Sensei - Scum

[/size]

His opening play is weakly town; Sensei shows that he is attempting to figure people out early on in posts like 223. What first caught my eye and looked kind of opportunistic is this:
In post 246 he questions why diamondsentinel doesn't like the wagon on flum. Then he procedes to vote said wagon (which was growing steadily at the time) using the reasoning "ah, now I see it". Looking at the amount of posts he has on site and his join-date it drew the conclusion he was a newbie and newbies have the tendency to silly things like this as scum. It was when I further looked into his post and saw he never joined a newbie that I concluded he is actually more likely to be an alt of someone. It remains a bad vote though.
Anyway, his reasons are god awful. Read post 501, where he votes Flum because the "chance of godfathers are higher with the presence of a miller". Everyone knows this is crumpets reasoning thus I call this vote opportunistic. When people then start pressuring him for this his primary reason to join the wagon becomes "I dislike his playstyle" in post 521. This sudden change of explanation when pressured isn't good and the reasoning remains bad. It continues into 534, the reasoning remains bad but at least he adds a decentish part. The whole making up more reasons as I go along when pressured for them doesn't scream town to me though.

Anyway, if we assume that he really believes his twisted reasons and is being honest the following few posts could be seen as town. Post 615 is an example of him observing peoples play and finding inconsistencies which is something town should do.

Butttttt, then he makes post 1194 where he says pirates scum slipped, yet where is his vote?! Honestly it could be him waiting to see how others react to it before making a jump, it also shows he isn't convinced of the slip itself making his post false.

Post 1024 is also pretty bad. Here he tells ABR to "convince me flum is town and I'll join you on Klingon"...
Or otherwise put with scum emphasis: " give me a reason to leave this failing wagon and I'll then have an excuse to join this new growing tasty one". Don't like it. He is also just completely parking his vote on flum without ever actually pushing or interacting with the player he is parked on. Sensei also does a ruddy good job of asking a lot of "what do you think of this player who is the current suspect coincidentally?" without ever trying to push people, interact with them or generally do any proper scum hunting. He's coasting along and making the most of what he is given, that doesn't seem town to me.

I also find it odd how he wants to bring diamond in a party with him in post 1524 which seems to indicate he is town reading him but, wait!, he then votes them opportunistically out of the blue without any reasons what so ever in post 1699. Well, besides some "your latest posts suck" and an unbacked claim about buddying.

Shall I go on?
Tl;dr: he's coasting, only asking questions about people who are suspect at the moment. Lacks good reasoning for any of his votes, changes said reasoning when pressured. Opportunism in general and no real scum hunting.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, Sensei does have his town moments but its overshadowed by his other play.
He looks like lazy scum.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm feeling generous, have some quotes from Sensei:

Tell ya what ABR convince me on flum town and I'll join ya on kling. For now I kinda like the dueling wagons. It's ideal.

Posted when Klingon was becoming more likely a lynch.

What did you think of hiplops metacase thingy on them earlier?

Looking back at it now (their wall in response to mollie) it looked like going above and beyond the call of duty pretty hard.

Posted when people started suspecting Cerb.

Also since apparently flum v skybird is a thing. Think I'm liking flum more. (especially recently)

Just noticed this, what happened to his flum scum read?
He makes a lot of pushes and questions but the second he switches his old reads seem instantly forgotten, a scum trait.

What is the case on arcangel? I can't even remember a single post she's made.

Posted when arc angels became more suspicious.

Thought the same thing^

VOTE: skybird

Voted when Skybird was becoming suspected.
This guy is just going along with whatever others do and not actually creating anything himself.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If people don't see what I'm seeing I'll make a better post on him later when not using my phone.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lowkey, please read my post and check Sensei's ISO.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

It's clear I need to make a better post on Sensei then

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I am starting to think Yos might be a really bad townbeard. I really liked his posts defending Skybird.

Extremely worried still because he's still hard defending scum but Yos looks sorta townie here.

Super townie. Super reasonable points to make.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Skybird, GWS is on V/LA. We can only hope that they'll be around once the VLA ends.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yeah, but I've been swayed. This would make sense as a forced TvT.

Shut up and stop your moaning or else I might just hop back on.

NoNoNoNoNoNo
Setup and Flavour speculation are bad and shouldn't ever be used for the basis of a read. This is how people loose games people!

Dammit

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Titus, I'm most interested in your case on Yosarian right now.
CoolDog scum I can see and am already slightly leaning towards.

Also silence is a huge scum tell for Klingon.

Is not.

I was Scum in Micro 560 and I had the second-highest post count.

It's more of a "contentless silence"

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hey Cerb, you never did explain your issue with voting itlepip?

Mostly that I haven't taken a deeper look at their slot yet and Cerb has some deep hatred which he harbours for Day 1 meaning he has literally given me most of the control of the reads until he has something he can work with.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, wgeurts, it's also partially because I do most of my reading logged into my main, and logging into the hydra to drop my thoughts about things as they come up is inconvenient, so I usually end up forgetting about them.

I do hate D1 though. This D1 is more interesting than most though, lots of moving parts.

Also, DP, and everyone else: If it's not signed, it's not me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Klingoncelt

Well this is an odd read. Klingoncelt is a hard one to read day one due the fact that she posts so darn little content. Apparently those that know her better notice things that lean to the one or the other however my sample size of games played which I call recall is one. Which was also a scum game which may help a little. Anyhow.

Her first vote on ABR isn't too awful, especially seeing how their have been worse votes. The reasoning in 363 is half-decent at least and seems more town minded than scum. The fact she is giving reads early (example: 671) on helps as in Suidoken she avoided giving anything concrete, especially town reads, like the plague. Where (much like Titus has said somewhere) she preferred to lurk and let the town destroy themselves. I also don't think Klingon would be pushing that weird thing where she accuses FA of faking her language barrier. (There is also no way R&L and Kling share a scum alignment.). 1143 is another example of her seemingly sorting the game in her own way.
Honestly, I don't know what to make of klingoncelt right now. I'm leaning town as this play doesn't match her recent scum play I witnessed and caught as she is making pushes (however bad), posting more content *than usual* and is seemingly sorting players... I'm going to have to go back to this read later game.

I know some people were pushing her so I'll take a look at the reasons behind said push as I go through the ISO's. If anyone is willing to quote/summarise their reasons for doing so though that would help.
~wgeurts

Ah forgot to add, Klingon is null leaning towards town

I'll look over her iso myself, but it seems unlikely?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If the idea of a Sensei compromise lynch is being floated, I'm much more on board with that one than the KC one. I read her iso, and I really don't see scum play in it. Granted, I haven't read Sensei's iso, but I know wgeurts thinks he's scum, even after a reread, and neither of us want to lynch KC, itlepip, or skybird.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I find myself agreeing with lowkey argument about the difficulty of keeping up a scum move like this on D1 with ABRs posting style. I think I might be able to do it, but it would be really hard, and my posting is a lot fluffier than his, or at least it can be. I'm also having trouble figuring out why scum!ABR does a lot of the stuff he does. I get that there's a buncha shit going on in his posts that makes me want to watch the slow really closely, but...that seems like it's not what he would want as scum right?

ABR, question. Assuming that list above is, based on your statement that the team is strong town reads only, how did you go from this:

I spent the day thinking hard about who I would bring if I was sworn in as the second MC.

Who are my allies, my foes, which ones can be trusted and which ones have an ulterior motive. There were a lot of players that came close to making the cut.

So without any further ado, I present you:

My new party

Spoiler: Second-in-Command

Titus

I'm convinced that Titus is town. Her logic for suspecting me makes complete sense from her point of view, her push on Max mirrors my own, she has been out in the cold looking in for the majority of the game, and doesn't plan on changing her opinions to fit in. Should I die, there's no one I would prefer succeeding me than Titus. As Titus reads these words, she will be more convinced that I'm scum, thinking I'm trying to bribe her with frivolities because I won't die and so this is nothing but a token gesture. She's wrong. The risks of my dying are real. Should the worst befall me, similar to Kylo Ren, I trust Titus to finish what I started.

Spoiler: The Big Guy

Drixx

Drixx has a self-proclaimed powerless role, and is almost universally trusted. He gets wordy and likes to overthink to the point that our collective minds trail off when he writes one his walls. Not the leader type, but Drixx is a great candidate for sparking abilities. As he gains new skills, he will become more useful to town.

Spoiler: The Point Man

Cooldog

I like him for town and so does most of this town. He's brash, he's aggressive, he doesn't like you, and most of all, unlike me, he's expendable. Good man to bring aboard this first mission.

Spoiler: The Smart Guy

Errant

His list ranking everyone from town to scum makes the most sense out of everyone in the game. He's been earnest in his scumhunting. He's town. He's an asset, and I know this for having played with him before, and believe me I tried to get him to sign up for this game many times. One of the most underrated players currently on the site. He's going to talk soon, and when he does, scum will cower in their boots.

To this:

I trust 4 players to be town. Lowkey, Drixx, Cool Cucumbers, and you.

Mainly, how did Lowkey and ourselves come to supplant Cooldog and Errant? I understand we were the two names you floated as possible replacements when DP pushed you on changing the lineup, but I'm interests in what lowkey, cooldog, errant, and and I/wgeurts have done to move around in your apparent reads.

-Cerb

Pedit: Klingon, beyond the thought that those who have consistently been voting you (which, btw, is a very reasonable explanation for why the wagon on you keeps going from nothing to 6+ votes...the people who want you lynched find something scummier, pressure it, determine it's not scummy/optimal to lynch in the discussion that results, and then the votes move back to you because they never stopped wanted you lynched, they just wanted you lynched less than the other party for a moment) are scummy, what else do you have to say about the game state, the topics discussed today, and the 15 slots that you aren't mentioning as much?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Behind eight pages but reading up, also making the posts on Sensei, Max, ABR and Itepip as promised.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@mollie: Why don't I have a cool nickname yer???

So, zulfy, previously wicked. I read the super short isos (combined, they make up less than 1% of the thread!), and the fact that they've had so little to say makes me not care about not lynching them, but it also makes it difficult to find a reason to want to lynch them. So, why?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Wgeurts' attempt at fram... uh, explaining why Sensei is scum:

VOTE: Fluminator

I get it now. Also his posts are pretty dry.

Okay so he starts voting Flum here, now considering that people were mass-piling votes onto him saying "I get it now" and voting is pretty darn opportunistic... or am I mistaken? Also, since when is "Dryness" a scum tell? He fails to explain his vote or explain how any of flum's actions are more likely to come from scum.

Sensei, what do you 'get' now? What does dry mean? Sentinel gives me bad vibes but I'm kind of agreeing with them on how I don't like this wagon.

It clicked in my head why fluminator is scum. With the presence of a miller the chances of there being a godfather go up. So his entrance is not as null as it would be in a vacuum.

It means not wet.

So then Maxwell questions him on this and he gives this piece of crumpets. Please, everyone read this and if you don't see how this reasoning is absolute crumpets tell me ASAP as we need to have a serious talk in that case. His reasoning sucks, so joining this wagon with crumpets explanations just makes it a whole lot more opportunistic.

Basically, just don't worry much about wild longshots like "but what if he's a mafia godfather" at this point on day 1. You shouldn't seriously be entiertaining longshot ideas like that until you have a lot more evidence to work with, and they certanly shouldn't be affecting your vote.

Sure.

All I was clarifying was that when I earlier expressed flums not-miller claim as null - I wasn't really considering any outside factors.

I'm not a fan of his play so far, which is the largest contributing factor.

So thank god people see how it sucks and point that out, how does Sensei respond? By ditching it and saying that the largest factor is "he is not a fan of his play". CONTRADICTION! He went from saying "It clicked that flum is scum because the existence of a miller makes godfather more likely" (this explanation makes me laugh every time that's how bad it is) to saying the "largest facor is I don't like his play". Yet he lacks an explanation of what exactly he "isn't a fan of". Changing your narrative to justify a vote is scummy and mixed with the opportunism it's down right awful.

Flum is still pretty scum.
Even discounting the fact that scum are probably fucking stacked. (spifflops role was pretty bonkers powerful and that's just the first flip we've seen) Given there's a miller - I apologize but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they've got a godfather and Flums entrance screams that.

His posts are dry. Meaning there's not really any emotion there. Even the quote walls where he's responding to pressure it's just like empty jabs at everyone scumreading him or even tossing a glance in his direction.

Even his read on me was pretty fake. "Liked his questions early but blah blah could be scum." That's not a real thought process of somebody reading my posts frankly - I've only asked like a couple questions at that point and they weren't alignment indicative.

People don't like his explanation... so what does Sensei do? CHANGE HIS EXPLANATION AGAIN! Suddenly some more random points have appeared he completely forgot to mention earlier to try and appease those that are pressuring him on them. They aren't even good reasons for a scum read. He makes a few statements but doesn't explain how mentioned things are likelier to come from scum. Do people not see what I'm seeing?

They link to a different topic. That's more than likely a scumslip.

Here he says that DP "more than likely" scum slipped, and what do you do when you think someone has done that? Well according to Sensei that is definitely do not vote that player. This doesn't add up, and indicates he knows what he said isn't entirely as he makes it out to be. Why would town lie though? I don't know.
Why would scum do this? To see if others pile on before going after something that may fail.
It's a simple matter of looking for what one may be thinking as either alignment and which makes more sense, in this case Sensei is making a lot of sense as scum.

Sensei what do you think of klingon's catch up post placing everyone that voted her in her scum pile, with Rylai, and inexplicable townreads?

It

is

pretty shit all around.

Okay so Klingoncelt is pretty shit all around, and seeing how he hasn't mentioned flum in forever (in fact as I'll get to later he magically becomes a town read for no reason) you would expect to see Sensei following up on this pushing Klingon. Or saying why its pretty shit around. Instead we get this:

Tell ya what ABR convince me on flum town and I'll join ya on kling. For now I kinda like the dueling wagons. It's ideal.

What.
This is just a scum post all round. Basically he is asking ABR to give him a reason to leave his current vote without looking too dodgy and he gets a chance to vote a popular target. Win win right?
Do we so Sensei questioning people to figure out their motives or perspectives?
No.
Do we find him actually explain his statements like "x's play is bad"?
No.
Do we find him making a lot of posts that seems useful but really arent?
Yes.
Why he never votes kling is beyond me, especially how he does end up town reading flum. Maybe it just didn't have enough potential to be a lynch...

What did you think of hiplops metacase thingy on them earlier?

Looking back at it now (their wall in response to mollie) it looked like going above and beyond the call of duty pretty hard.

Another example of him suddenly picking on a player who is being suspect (in this case us) but never explaining why he is also suspicious and never following up on his suspicions. Does he ever continue to interact with me or kling? No.
Does he make it seem like his positioning himself to join a potential wagon on us if one arises? Possibly.
He is not scum hunting. He is playing opportunistically and making the most of what we give him.

If I was looking for a party...

drixx/yos/rylai/zzzx/diamond

would be a solid one

By the way, I just want you to note how Diamond is town here seemingly.

I mean, you are obviously not a popular lynch target right now. Your buddy arc is on the line right now. Flum ain't getting the lynch today, hate to break that one to you.

Wanna make it popular?

VOTE: diamondsentinal

But bamn, suddenly he votes him here out of the blue. Me, flum and Klingon or completely forgotten.

Because your reaction to being placed in a townlist was to buddy me.

And your latest posts suck.

He doesn't explain how the first comes from scum, as many others have done this (heck ABR is basically selling himself to win MC votes). Also we get another "your play sucks" like comment. These statements are so easy for scum to throw around as it makes them seem justified, while not having to make any explanation where someone could catch you out. He's not given any half-decent explanation for any of his suspicions. In fact half of his suspicions are only there while others suspect them and then they disappear.

Also since apparently flum v skybird is a thing. Think I'm liking flum more. (especially recently)

What.
Suddenly flum is town?
But I thought he was scum reading him.
I wonder what changed...

You just said you agreed with what most of cooldog has been saying and he has been one of my most vocal defenders. Wha?

This line in particular just feels genuine. Like just typed out straight off the cuff. (and it's a good point too)

He's gone from scum reading flum to town reading him because of this one line. Somebody please tell me you think this is genuine. You don't just flip reads for something like this, its ridiculous. You know what it does do though?
Give him an opportunity to vote skybird who was becoming a more likely wagon than flum if the opportunity arises.

We also haven't had a votecount in a while but if there was one on this page what you all would see is a wagon on flum that I'm thinking I'm not gonna support anymore. A wagon on a slot that's being replaced, which is wasted pressure. A shit ton of 1 or 2 vote vanities, some with potential some not. And then like 6 mofos not voting.

Sensei is not happy.

"Useless post complaining about the current wagons while he himself has parked on his votes all game almost but hey he wants to seem useful so this post will do"

What is the case on arcangel? I can't even remember a single post she's made.

Convenient "convince me" like post that would give him a change to vote the now globally suspect arc. Why does he only ask these things about the suspects of others at any point in time and why isn't he pushing anything himself or interacting with his suspects?

Klingon your posts are making my eyes bleed.

Also Max are you scum?

Another useless post.

So skybird is essentially voting you because you said something weird that looked like claiming third party and because she gets cool things by lynching you?
Oh yea that sounds town.

Why are you voting skybird again though itlepip?

"Let me questions about the current global suspect again"

Thought the same thing^

VOTE: skybird

Oh, I really couldn't have predicted this happening...

VOTE: sensei
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh forgot, Sensei literally called Skybird town in 2148 and then votes him 4 posts later without another explanation yet again.
What happened to Klingon? Us? Flum? Arc?
I really don't know. The only one he's maintain slightly is Klingon who coincidentally is also still a suspect for many.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sensei is also completely ignoring me conveniently, nobody seems to be going after him so why should he bother? It would draw attention to him
Somebody help me with a vote or two at least until he gives a decent explanation for every one of the points I made.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

FA, could you shortly halt your catch up and read my last three posts on Sensei and then give thoughts.
Too many people are ignoring it.