I am opinionated about modding

[kuribo]

For the love of GOD update your OP, even after the game is over.

A quick look into my wiki will reveal that some day, I may want to go back and see who was what. If your OP isn't updated, I'm not looking through the thread for that shit.

Also, links in the OP to significant events like lynches and Day starts are nice.

[kuribo]

IIRC last to confirm was a scumtell?

uh no, last to confirm is usually last to be online

[kuribo]

hello opinionated about modding

i'm davsto

im old enough now that i can appreciate a good dad joke

[Postie]

I started adding sitewide rules into my ruleset because people don't click links.

In the beginning, I only had 11 rules, but by page 4 of my first game I already needed a new one (no tiny text).

Then I had 14 rules because I needed a new one to explain a mechanic and a new one to explain that twilight lasts until the next pagetop (longer if I'm afk).

I think I started adding the "everybody already knows this but i have to include it anyway" rules to my ruleset when i started modding newbie games. I didn't have "don't talk about ongoing" in my ruleset until two newbies PMed each other because they hadn't clicked the link in "follow all site rules" and didn't know it wasn't okay. And then in the second newbie game I modded someone used to a different site meta suggested they find someone they can trust to be town and then "whisper" their roles to that person, so I had to put a pre-emptive reminder in my page 2 votecount.


I didn't have details about how to vote in my ruleset before i started modding newbie games either.

I have 22 rules now

Oh, yeah, in newbie games I can understand it. If ever moderate newbie games, I'll probably make a separate ruleset for them that's my usual rules + more common sense stuff. That, or I'll include a

massive

scary-looking notice telling people to read the sitewide rules above my ruleset.

[Plotinus]

I do have a separate ruleset for newbies because a lot of my weirder rules are a little too weird for the newbie queue. If I ever moderate something with an experience requirement maybe i'll take out the "you can vote by typing [

v]Plotinus[/v

]" stuff.

[callforjudgement]

Clearly, the solution to making people read the rules is to run games so Theme that all the rules have changed and thus you need to track them from the start. (For example, a game that I've been planning for a while has deadlines, prods, inactivity etc. as major parts of the mechanics. At some point I'm going to have to write a new version of my automated vote counter to keep track of it.)

[kuribo]

I'd like to implement a rule in my rule set that out-of hydra posting gets you two warnings followed by a penalty vote


But I don't know how well that would go

Only other rule I can think of is that cop sanity is not guaranteed unless explicitly stated but that's probably just something that would be mentioned in a role PM

[callforjudgement]

What irritates me is how often people disobey "please repeat the post from the correct account after alti/hydra-slipping" rules. Perhaps I'll have to start modkilling over it eventually.

So far I've only run games with Normal roles where the cop sanity thing is kind-of obvious, but I think the best way to run a cop of unknown sanity is to list all the four possible roles it could be in the role PM. This means that you don't have to know the history of Cops to be able to know what your results might mean.

[Davsto]

hello opinionated about modding

i'm davsto

im old enough now that i can appreciate a good dad joke

Dude I'm 16 and I can appreciate a good dad joke

[Dwlee99]

I am 14 and I can appreciate a good dad joke.

[Psyche]

ban hydras it's the only way

[Psyche]

ah
that's what's missing from N's post

[Dwlee99]

I VERY strongly disagree with this.

The longer your ruleset, the more likely it is that I'm just going to ignore it entirely and not even bother reading it.

Dead serious, if your rules are longer than a screenwidth and contain basic, redundant, and even obsolete information that's frankly unnecessary to include? I'm not reading that shit. I'm just assuming you don't have anything remotely surprising in your rules.

In contrast, if I see a short, neat, ruleset that is directly to the point and contains just the essentials? Damn right I'll read it. It's short. I have no reason not to read it.

I want to make my ruleset shorter but my players keep making me feel the need to add more rules. For example the reason my rule about quoting the PT is a paragraph long is because when it was "Don't quote any private communicaiton you have access to. Paraphrasing is okay" i got so many questions and it was a hassle.

I didn't used to have "don't talk about ongoing games" in my ruleset, because I thought everybody knew that rule but then it turned out that they didn't.

In my first VC of Day 1, I always put this note: "Please take a moment to familiarise yourselves with my ruleset because I have some rules you may not have encountered in other games before regarding animated gifs, tiny text, prodging, proxying, last words, fallback kills and perhaps some other things!"

Because I figure most people are going to skim the rules and think "blahblah if I vote people I can lynch them blahblah i will get prodded if i don't post okay nothing new" and will miss that I do actually have some exciting rules in my ruleset.

noooo proxying is awful

[Plotinus]

why don't you like proxying? if someone goes away, they can lend their vote to their townread until they post in the game again. it's to prevent the game from compeltely grinding to a halt on weekends.

[kuribo]

I don't like proxying but the get a room mechanic sounds fun

[Plotinus]

it is pretty fun! i've had it in 3 games so far and it's been really neat. Mostly people use it to get neighbourhoods with their townreads/townies they are buddying up to, which is fine and helps whichever faction has strong players without hurting anything, but i initially envisioned as more of a way to let town shut down those 40 page arguments that nobody wants to read by giving people a 48 hour post restriction that they can't talk about each other in public (and a room so that they can still have their conversation that nobody else cares about).


The first game I forgot to put a limit on it and found myself babysitting 22 PTs in a micro, but I learned my lesson.

[Dwlee99]

why don't you like proxying? if someone goes away, they can lend their vote to their townread until they post in the game again. it's to prevent the game from compeltely grinding to a halt on weekends.

No one shpuld be able to use your vote.

[Plotinus]

it's optional. you don't have to proxy your vote to anyone if you don't want to, but you can if you do want to (and only when v/la.) It's never been used in the games i modded, but I like the idea of the option being available.

[Dwlee99]

oh if only when vla it seems ok

[Untrod Tripod]

I endorse this product or service

[Psyche]

concerned about it being used strategically
but there's a taboo against v/laing strategically

[talah]

Vote-proxying can also be used to see what someone does with the extra vote, so I agree with it being used strategically at times but I don't really see it being a problem either way. I know of at least some mods who let it happen as a matter of course - it's just an extension of sheeping without having to sheep.

Get a Room threads on the other hand? I mean I think it's interesting but shutting people out of conversations... to me I'd be pissed even if there had been too much spam. Not knowing what x and y had been talking about if they both came back into the thread and started ganging up on me (or another townread of mine, or conversely if they dropped a scumread they'd been previously discussing and which I also had) might just end up with me asking repeatedly what specifically had been going on in that thread... possibly leading to another Room thread with x, y and me (probably voted by *other* players when I start reading into what might have been said instead of what was actually said and getting grumpy about it).

I like the feel of the mechanic as part of a specific *game's* ruleset but not as a standard thing that just happens.

Then again, I haven't looked at what happens in practice, so that's just a feeling :)

[Dwlee99]

Vote-proxying can also be used to see what someone does with the extra vote, so I agree with it being used strategically at times but I don't really see it being a problem either way. I know of at least some mods who let it happen as a matter of course - it's just an extension of sheeping without having to sheep.

Get a Room threads on the other hand? I mean I think it's interesting but shutting people out of conversations... to me I'd be pissed even if there had been too much spam. Not knowing what x and y had been talking about if they both came back into the thread and started ganging up on me (or another townread of mine, or conversely if they dropped a scumread they'd been previously discussing and which I also had) might just end up with me asking repeatedly what specifically had been going on in that thread... possibly leading to another Room thread with x, y and me (probably voted by *other* players when I start reading into what might have been said instead of what was actually said and getting grumpy about it).

I like the feel of the mechanic as part of a specific *game's* ruleset but not as a standard thing that just happens.

Then again, I haven't looked at what happens in practice, so that's just a feeling

yea i can agree with this is pretty much gives everyone in the game the power to neighborize.

[Not_Mafia]

Have you thought about providing a template/standardised (non-mandatory) OP and ruleset for mods or highlighting a few mods who make good opening posts?

[callforjudgement]

Many games offsite allow unlimited PMs between players (either as a strategy thing or because they feel it's impossible to enforce no PMs between players).
The games normally end up revolving around it; things like "as soon as a player becomes confirmed town, everyone fullclaims to that player, who can dictate lynches without having to state their evidence from then on and it's assumed that it was based on role information received from someone else". It'd make breadcrumbling pretty much obsolete.
In other words, Get a Room has a really major impact on a setup's balance unless the setup is particularly role-light.