Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[lane0168]

Where did I assume I could not possibly get called? I said I didn't think it would.

Fa, that's 11 hands. 1 call so far. I was hoping people wouldn't be willing to risk all their money right away.

How is my all in scummy? Unless the mm is my partner. Otherwise it could just be someone who tried to bluff and got called. You guys obviously know nothing about poker. People bluff. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's obvious you guys know nothing about poker to think that there would obviously be a call on all in first hand. You're trying to make it scummy when it isn't.

The only thing that makes sense would be if I really am dumping money into scum. In that case its me and mm and good game. You're wrong though cause you can't understand that someone might actually just failed at the bluff.

Go scum hunt. Like genuine proof not speculation cause the only thing that will happen here is mm will win the hand. Mm will get lynched because he must be the partner. Hopefully he Flips scum. But even if he Flips town we'll all hear "well lanes partner probably doesn't call cause someone else did"

You're going down the wrong road. Stop it

[Infinity 324]

^^ town

[Infinity 324]

I probably should've called cause now my top scumread is probably gonna get a shitton of money :/

Hand sucked tho, I got out-bluffed lol

What do you think about mm so far, lane?

[lane0168]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

@infinity, I don't like mm. Here he says town wouldn't give away their monies random like that. I'm lead to believe he thinks scum would give away their money at random... And yet scum would LOVE to get those abilities. We've already established its hugely beneficial for scum to gain money. And everyone seems to think I'm in a ploy to give my money to mm.

But mm seems to think I'm scum because town wouldn't give money away like that.

@mm, why would scum give money away like that? Especially when they can benefit hugely from getting perks?

[lane0168]

VOTE: the mm

[Alchemist21]

♠ ♡ VOTECOUNT 1.5 ♢ ♣

lane (3):

Persivul, The MM, magnaofillusion

Something Smart (2):

Something Smart, BBT

MM (2):

Infinity, lane

BBT (1):

qubixes

Not Voting (3):

Kappy, FA_Q2, RedCoyote

With 11 Votes, it takes 6 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-07-05 12:30:00)

The current pot is $1170
The amount to call is $495

Still in the Hand: Kappy, lane, MM

Spoiler: Betting History

Bet orders:
Ante
Magna bets $25
MM raises to $50
qubixes folds
something smart folds
Infinity raises to $100
persivul folds
lane raises to $495
BBT folds
MM calls
Magna folds
RC folds
Infinity folds
FA folds

Kappy must submit an action.

[lane0168]

I won't win lol

So why did you bet all your money?

Could be scum dumping money to each other so they can buy out one of the bigger PRs early.

mod, did scum have pre-game talk? Do they have day talk?

A mislynch to verify this being completely false isn't the worst way to start out the game. However you'll change your mind on due time

@rc and infinity, this was me speaking specifically to Persivul, because he will know that I'm town by the way I play.

[Infinity 324]

O...k

I don't know what to make of the fact that I ask you to look at mm and then you vote him for different reasons for me. igmeou. Let's see where this goes though.

[lane0168]

What's wrong with voting for different reasons than you?

[lane0168]

FA, if I have a good hand, am I scum?

[Infinity 324]

What's wrong with voting for different reasons than you?

It would've been scummier had you repeated the same reasons, but I still thought it was weird that I said "what do you think about mm" and you said "oh he's scum I'll vote him"

Anyway you're still null-town to me.

[FA_Q2]

FA, if I have a good hand, am I scum?

Less likely IMHO.

[FA_Q2]

Where did I assume I could not possibly get called? I said I didn't think it would.

Fa, that's 11 hands. 1 call so far. I was hoping people wouldn't be willing to risk all their money right away.

How is my all in scummy? Unless the mm is my partner. Otherwise it could just be someone who tried to bluff and got called. You guys obviously know nothing about poker. People bluff. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's obvious you guys know nothing about poker to think that there would obviously be a call on all in first hand. You're trying to make it scummy when it isn't.

The only thing that makes sense would be if I really am dumping money into scum. In that case its me and mm and good game. You're wrong though cause you can't understand that someone might actually just failed at the bluff.

Go scum hunt. Like genuine proof not speculation cause the only thing that will happen here is mm will win the hand. Mm will get lynched because he must be the partner. Hopefully he Flips scum. But even if he Flips town we'll all hear "well lanes partner probably doesn't call cause someone else did"

You're going down the wrong road. Stop it

*I* know nothing about poker?

Clearly you are bullshitting here to cover your bad play. I have no patience for this BS so I will wait to see the end of the hand for how I will judge your current play.

And I am scum hunting. Right now your actions and the motivations behind them are the best place to be hunting right now. We are on page 4 - not much else to analyze other than how people have played their hands.

[The MM]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

@infinity, I don't like mm. Here he says town wouldn't give away their monies random like that. I'm lead to believe he thinks scum would give away their money at random... And yet scum would LOVE to get those abilities. We've already established its hugely beneficial for scum to gain money. And everyone seems to think I'm in a ploy to give my money to mm.

But mm seems to think I'm scum because town wouldn't give money away like that.

@mm, why would scum give money away like that? Especially when they can benefit hugely from getting perks?

1- Even scum wouldn't give away monies at random, the only way that it makes any amount of sense is scum trying to give away their monies to a scumpartner with a good hand, to get this perk out ASAP. I called to break that, as I am quite confident in my hand. But here's the kicker: for any townie, doing that is betting blind. It's like how I play poker at home, all-in first hand and get ready to lol. I didn't win an online tour for my stepfather by all-ining, I did it by eating a few dumb all-ins with good hands. Luck played its part.
2- That's certainly a scummy move, though my scumread on you is soft at best. I've been pushing it for several other reasons though.
3 - Scum wouldn't, unless they're trying to bank on town being unwilling to risk too much to move the money to one scum so they can get those juicy 1250$ abilities.
PS - Bluffing is useless if you don't have any semblance of cred (like a hand won or two).

And to all of you who say I'm playing bad, that's normal: this is my second game here, and it's months after my first due to a quite tense situation I got into IRL. As for being hasty, I was: one of the primal needs of the human body is sleep, and I was in lack of it. I'll be coming up with a readslist as well as I can, but keep in mind that didn't help me much in my first game so don't be surprised if I only dig myself deeper and you end up lynching me.

[wgeurts]

Hello, I'm co-modding this game with Alchemist, however he'll be the most visible and I'll mostly just be helping out unless he leaves for a while. I hope you all have a great game!

[The MM]

Readslist:

BlueBloodedToffee
* 27: "How good are y'all at poker?" I forgot to answer to that. I'm sure I'm very swingy as a player, so I'd say 2~7 depending on the moment/mood.
Nothing very helpful, but nothing scummy:

NULL

MagnaOfIllusion
* 19 was no more than calling out a hard-to-use tactic. I condone this, but that doesn't tell anything alignment-related.
Makes sense all around. I'm inclined to trust him but I'm not making that mistake again:

NULL (+Town)

Persivul
* 35: I don't mean to be a whiner, but winning at poker doesn't mean one's scum. As far as I'm going, I'm likely to win, except if lane mindgemmed me and actually has a sure-win hand, something like a straight flush.
Makes sense, but I have a feel that tells me more "no-nonsense and cutthroat" for some reason:

NULL

Kappy
We waitin for YOU, [REDACTED]!! :

NULL

lane0168
* 21's the big bluff that we've been talking about. I'm undecided between thinking this was a scummy move to pass money to scum, or really just a mindless bluff, but I'd think lane's better than that.
I don't know if he's playing me, but I'm convinced he plays dumb -- though is it that he's playing dumb to fool me or his plays are just dumb, I don't know. The vote switch on me just to please infinity doe.

NULL (+ slight scum)

FA_Q2
Kinda aggro on lane's move. Frankly I think it's a good player to keep but really:

NULL

Something_Smart
Very un-striking to me. Nothing stands out, except the propensity to come up with complicated stuff, or lies (42 wasn't a big leap to take).

NULL

qubixes
Only posted once "lynch BBT boohoo u lynch'd me". I can make nothing of this:

NULL

Infinity 324:
* 24 is, I think, a wannabe readslist or ranking or etc, but ranking quibixes at top dawg town is full of bull seeing as his only post so far was "vote BBT you got me lynched last time :,(". Magna has been making sense, that's for sure, but I don't see how town this is. S_S has only been asking for a move that would be in the best interest of town, but I only see his idea as a candid dream. The only thing lane had done was his epic bluff. I don't see persivul as "possible scum" tho, seeing as the only thing he did was fold and detecting the bluff from lane. Also, yourself at the bottom of the readslist? Was that copypasta'd, is that a mindgem to tell us not to think you're scum?
* 63: I'm not at fault for being unoriginal when I express my approval of others' points. 61 was just that. It's not my fault if I get predated. Also, someone visibly doesn't know me.
Kinda-groundless readslist on third post. Thinking I'm scum just because of my posting style, and not drawing the money plays to his mind since I've put on paper I was likely to take those $500 from lane. Bleeeeh. For all I hate his behaviour tho, he's barely even scummy.

RedCoyote
One post, though it has substance. I can pretty much agree on everything he said, but I'm meh about it.

NULL

[Persivul]

Does this necessarily point to lane as scum though? I'm thinking no. lane strikes me as the impulsive type. I don't get the feeling that his bet was part of a gambit, but it's something to still consider going forward.

I also consider lane to be impulsive and could see it coming from town!lane, but yes, it needs to be watched. It shouldn't matter for today. If Lane loses as he says he will, then it would be the winner we would want to lynch. I'm kind of kicking myself for mentioning the possibility when I did. It might have been more informative to let the hand play out before saying anything.

Fold

... are we going in any specific order? I didn't see anything about this in the rules. If not, should the town organize a makeshift order of players so that the scum cannot act in unison to their advantage? We could use dice tags to keep it random.

No, then we're all held up by the slowest player. I want to see more hands.

[Persivul]

How is my all in scummy? Unless the mm is my partner. Otherwise it could just be someone who tried to bluff and got called. You guys obviously know nothing about poker. People bluff. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's obvious you guys know nothing about poker to think that there would obviously be a call on all in first hand. You're trying to make it scummy when it isn't.

I would have liked it better if you pleaded ignorance. Before the US got shut down I played a ton of online poker. First-hand all-ins usually got at least one caller on 10-person tables, and here we have 13. Also note that the sites watched for collusion, including chip dumping from one player to another.

[Persivul]

VOTE: The MM

Based on the chip dumping theory and a reads list full of nulls. If you don't have any reads yet, why put up a list? Oh yeah...because it looks kinda townie.

[lane0168]

You could put a time on it. If they don't post in 6 hours then just skip them. Not the end of the world. But then I guess it defeats the purpose of you could just get skipped and call or fold later.

The mm, who said you were playing badly? I must've missed that. And why is everyone single one of your reads null?

I've got rc and Persivul town, probably biased cause I want Persivul to be town.

The mm I started to feel better about until I realized all of the reads in his readslist turned out to be null, and him defending his bad play that I'm sure nobody has brought up or thought yet.

Who is scum just following Persivul's idea? I'll find you. Unless it's just mm and only mm

Pedit: You mean I could get banned for collusion? Good. It should be reported then for sure! Best way to settle this. And I keep counting 11 people in the list. Am I fucking stupid? Cause 2 people have said 13 lol

[Persivul]

Habit - I usually play 13s. The point remains that with 11 people an all-in is likely to be called.

[Infinity 324]

MM has decent analysis, but nothing that can't be faked by scum, and he doesn't actually use it to take very many stances. (By the way, my page 1 reads list was random gut reads and to see how people would react.)

[The MM]

VOTE: The MM
Based on the chip dumping theory and a reads list full of nulls. If you don't have any reads yet, why put up a list? Oh yeah...because it looks kinda townie.

Because it has some leanings (some are so soft they don't show up in the final results) and I'm making sure everyone keeps track of that. I'm not writing down people as scum or town this easily as y'all, that's it. Do I need to write down my tiniest leans? People can change my opinion of them in one post.

The mm, who said you were playing badly? I must've missed that. And why is everyone single one of your reads null?

Your votes for me basically say I'm transparent scum, guys; which would mean I'm bad. I'm not.
My reads are null with very soft leans in case you can read and spot them.

Who is scum just following Persivul's idea? I'll find you. Unless it's just mm and only mm

What idea? The chip-dumping theory? Just because I'm confident in my hand doesn't mean I'm scum, otherwise that would mean I was just collecting lane's monies. Besides, lane claimed to have done that with no coordination, so what do you think are the odds of the guy with the nuts be town? Just down to luck, out of the 10 remaning, odds are 2 or 3 are scum, making it like 75% chance I'm town.

Just saying, people here take too many things at face value.
Apparently some of you have already played each other and thus know each other a bunch, but I didn't. That means I can't go full gung-ho with gut-based or entirely reason-based reads because I don't know how you act at all.
Seems to me, though, that you are not even trying and draw conclusions and vote me at the drop of a hat. A day phase is 2 weeks, we could at least use the time.

[qubixes]

1- Even scum wouldn't give away monies at random, the only way that it makes any amount of sense is scum trying to give away their monies to a scumpartner with a good hand, to get this perk out ASAP.

I called to break that, as I am quite confident in my hand.

But here's the kicker: for any townie, doing that is betting blind. It's like how I play poker at home, all-in first hand and get ready to lol. I didn't win an online tour for my stepfather by all-ining, I did it by eating a few dumb all-ins with good hands. Luck played its part.
2- That's certainly a scummy move, though my scumread on you is soft at best. I've been pushing it for several other reasons though.
3 - Scum wouldn't, unless they're trying to bank on town being unwilling to risk too much to move the money to one scum so they can get those juicy 1250$ abilities.
PS - Bluffing is useless if you don't have any semblance of cred (like a hand won or two).

And to all of you who say I'm playing bad, that's normal: this is my second game here, and it's months after my first due to a quite tense situation I got into IRL. As for being hasty, I was: one of the primal needs of the human body is sleep, and I was in lack of it. I'll be coming up with a readslist as well as I can, but keep in mind that didn't help me much in my first game so don't be surprised if I only dig myself deeper and you end up lynching me.

I don't understand the bolded part. If you thought scum might do that, then why not wait until the partner shows up and calls? (And take both of their money.)

There will be a showdown, right? That might give us some clues as to what happened. If one of the two shows a very premium hand, it's at least unlikely that they are a team.

[qubixes]

MM has decent analysis, but nothing that can't be faked by scum, and he doesn't actually use it to take very many stances. (By the way, my page 1 reads list was random gut reads and to see how people would react.)

Did you get any reads from it?