Gistou (Over!)

[Klingoncelt]

that's one of the weirdest reasons i've ever been townread but okay

Town post because the person is weirded out, and only people who are weirded out are town.

~Fire Song

FireSong is an actual user's name...

also

/Confirm

[Klingoncelt]

1) Nero Cain is spelled quite differently.
2) Cane & Able is the title of a House episode.

It's obviously based off Cain & Abel though.

And thanks for forming further distracting associations with Kurio's avatar.

They've been using House avies forever.

House uses a

cane

now because he's slightly dis

able

d.

[Klingoncelt]

1) Nero Cain is spelled quite differently.
2) Cane & Able is the title of a House episode.

It's obviously based off Cain & Abel though.

And thanks for forming further distracting associations with Kurio's avatar.

They've been using House avies forever.

House uses a

cane

now because he's slightly dis

able

d.

Silly me, I forgot something:

VOTE: Expedience

[Klingoncelt]

@LQ, How can you play with me this much and not know what moon logic is?

I never quite understood exactly what it was and still don't.

@Wayward Thinker - Lickety, you've played with Titus and with me. You know how we think outside the box, but we do it kinda like we're trippin' balls on peyote while reading too many Agatha Christie novels? That's moonlogic.

[Klingoncelt]

First Votecount

:

Expedience - 5 (Stormblade, Cephrir, Nosferatu, Luna Fox, Klingoncelt)

rb - 2 (Expedience, Wayward Thinker)

Wayward Thinker - 2 (dramonic, Salt Squad)
Heartless - 1 (copper223)
copper223 - 1 (KuroiXHF)
Titus - 1 (Nosferatu)
Cane + Able - 1 (Titus)

Not Voting - 16 (Heartless, Almost50, Mathblade, davesaz, Cane + Able, Tim, No Retreat, A Song of Ice and Fire, RAM, Lady Lambdadelta, rb, BBMolla, TheWayItEnds, Skybird, Toogeloo, Franky)

With

28

alive, it takes

15

to lynch.

Day 1's deadline is Tuesday, August 2nd, @ 9:00 PM PST: (expired on 2016-08-02 21:00:00).
At deadline,

Expedience

would be lynched.

Why is

rb - 2 (Expedience, Wayward Thinker)

italicized?

<<< That is meant to show the largest counterwagon. In other words, who would be lynched if the largest wagon suddenly evaporated with no other wagon forming in its place. rb had two votes before Wayward Thinker, and would therefore be lynched if Expedience was not. >>>

[Klingoncelt]

I like the extras section of the vote count, wtg Mastin.
@Klingon: While i appreciate voting my scumread, can you comment on everything else?

I'm not sheeping you.

That's

my

Scumread I'm voting.

I think Titus and the House heads are Town.

I think Lickety's Scum.

The game's too big with too many mechanics for me to comment on everything this freakin' early. Wednesday of next week is far more likely.

[Klingoncelt]

@LQ, How can you play with me this much and not know what moon logic is?

I never quite understood exactly what it was and still don't.

@Wayward Thinker - Lickety, you've played with Titus and with me. You know how we think outside the box, but we do it kinda like we're trippin' balls on peyote while reading too many Agatha Christie novels? That's moonlogic.

Is it an exclusive club? cuz i feel I fit right in there with you guys.

Anyone can join, but it usually means getting mislynched early in the game.

[Klingoncelt]

I think Titus and the

House

heads are Town.

Tell me more about that.

I'll know more later on, but so far we haven't had Wake's Random Wall O' Bullshit, that's always a good sign.

Town House: Fuck you I'm not sorry.
Scum House: Could you go fuck yourself, please?

Titus' nitpicking tunnel looks typical of Town Titus. (Of course the best tell is her legendary Day 3 VCA.)

[Klingoncelt]

I like the extras section of the vote count, wtg Mastin.
@Klingon: While i appreciate voting my scumread, can you comment on everything else?

I'm not sheeping you.

That's

my

Scumread I'm voting.

I think Titus and the House heads are Town.

I think Lickety's Scum.

The game's too big with too many mechanics for me to comment on everything this freakin' early. Wednesday of next week is far more likely.

Not every read is mechanics based...

Seriously blatantly skirting content and fighting is your scum mo. Saw it in you can be anyone and saga.
I am not waiting, if I have my way, half way through an annoyingly long d1 to hear from you.

The game started an hour ago, fucking hell.

Go drink more Nyquil and have a nap.

[Klingoncelt]

What's your reason for why I am Scum?

Town Lickety is cocky & goofy.

Scum Lickety is quieter and appease-y.

[Klingoncelt]

Hey guys, we had a long pre game.
I can't speak for frozen, but I would really like us to not have a 100+ day. So, if we could maybe get a lynch by like page 50. It would just be gravy for me!

Also hi BBMOLLA!

And Titus again, and Kling.

~Firebringer, the Dragon head.

Hi.

[Klingoncelt]

Kling don't be rude!

Titus has a cold.

I'm speaking as a granny here, when you're sick don't strain your eyes, get lots of sleep, yadda yadda...

[Klingoncelt]

VCA

oh good i need to add to my wall of self-quotes about vca being shit

Titus is actually very good with VCA - if she's Town.

As Scum, her analysis is a load of wank.

[Klingoncelt]

I never quite understood exactly what it was and still don't.

@Wayward Thinker - Lickety, you've played with Titus and with me. You know how we think outside the box, but we do it kinda like we're trippin' balls on peyote while reading too many Agatha Christie novels? That's moonlogic.

I really don't like this kind of post. It sets up yourself up for having bad logic, and I never considered you a moon logic person kling. You always just seemed scummy.

That's a side effect of moonlogic, looking scummy, being low-hanging fruit.

[Klingoncelt]

What's your reason for why I am Scum?

Town Lickety is cocky & goofy.

Scum Lickety is quieter and appease-y.

Ehhhhhhhhh.....this is probably true, but can we not do meta reads

My meta reads are great.

A lot of people can't do meta reads.

Please don't try to stifle those of us that can.

[Klingoncelt]

I think Titus and the

House

heads are Town.

Tell me more about that.

I'll know more later on, but so far we haven't had Wake's Random Wall O' Bullshit, that's always a good sign.

Town House: Fuck you I'm not sorry.
Scum House: Could you go fuck yourself, please?

So you're saying...
Sorry, what are you saying? What's the distinction?

I'm not townreading anything House has said so far and the Wake entrance pinged me a little with how softballed it seemed.

Town House is meaner than Scum House.

[Klingoncelt]

VCA

oh good i need to add to my wall of self-quotes about vca being shit

Titus is actually very good with VCA - if she's Town.

As Scum, her analysis is a load of wank.

This is an empty statement. What do you think she is now given her likely connection to Expedience I outlined? (Or rather Expedience's possible connection to her?)

I admit I'm cutting her some slack due to her illness. Plus you and I

always

scumread her, so I'm cutting some slack there, too.

Anyway, an Expedience flip would tell us some things, no?

[Klingoncelt]

What's your reason for why I am Scum?

Town Lickety is cocky & goofy.

Scum Lickety is quieter and appease-y.

Ehhhhhhhhh.....this is probably true, but can we not do meta reads

My meta reads are great.

A lot of people can't do meta reads.

Please don't try to stifle those of us that can.

Please post links where your meta reads have been "great."

Go to my profile page and read my games. I'm not digging through all that now, or anytime soon.

[Klingoncelt]

Town House is meaner than Scum House.

I don't really buy this....Kling you said you used moon logic but all you are using is meta reads right now. Since when have you done only meta reads? If you have any none meta reads let me know pls. Cause I am not liking what has been coming out of you so far.

~Dragonbringer

COM hunting is usually modkillable at that other site, so I have no choice but to moonlogic in those finished games.

[Klingoncelt]

Town House is meaner than Scum House.

I disagree. Like in mafiacraft game where he was SK he way getting all pissy and name calling. Supposedly he's an ass as either alignment ...

There are slight differences...

[Klingoncelt]

Anyway, an Expedience flip would tell us some things, no?

WHat would it tell you?

Whether or not Titus is scum.

[Klingoncelt]

What is COM hunting?

At that other site, players are forced to use different alts in each game. Said alts are made by the mod and handed out randomly.

COM is a player's actual username.

[Klingoncelt]

VCA

oh good i need to add to my wall of self-quotes about vca being shit

Titus is actually very good with VCA - if she's Town.

As Scum, her analysis is a load of wank.

This is an empty statement. What do you think she is now given her likely connection to Expedience I outlined? (Or rather Expedience's possible connection to her?)

I admit I'm cutting her some slack due to her illness. Plus you and I

always

scumread her, so I'm cutting some slack there, too.

Anyway, an Expedience flip would tell us some things, no?

I am cutting Titus specifically slack as there are possibilities in which Expedience is just a sheeping scum. What I am more concerned with is why Titus was avoiding commentary on the main wagon, Song's now push on you for your House/C+A read, and why people aren't looking at connected dots to try to see further into the game than meta. There are more than 20 pages. If you don't have something more than "meta" or "gut" my bullshit detector is going off. This is why I want to see Titus's response to how when I vote expedience I am somehow confirming them as town.

Just because you cut someone slack doesn't mean you don't ask questions and that you don't poke around and demonstrate crazy shit you see. It seems like right now those three have a hard on for a House/c+a scumread/lynch. If anything it means you do to see if you are crazy or not. And if I am crazy then someone will point out where it is crazy and not just "give Titus some slack".

OR...

It's after 2am my time, I've been running on 4 hours' sleep the past few nights, I'm in several other large themes, and this one JUST started.

I'm really not emotionally involved with it right now. By the middle of next week I should care more.

Damned unlikely that there will be a lynch before then.

[Klingoncelt]

What is COM hunting?

It's hunting for the identity of an anonymous poster in an anonymous game... Why klingon is citing it here, I have no idea.

Strictly for Firebringer's benefit.

[Klingoncelt]

Apparently being (Insert time past midnight) has become the go to solution nowadays.

Math and I are in different time zones.

Usually I'm up all night eastern time, but the lack of sleep is fucking killing me.

[Klingoncelt]

It's after 2am my time, I've been running on 4 hours' sleep the past few nights, I'm in several other large themes, and this one JUST started.

I'm really not emotionally involved with it right now. By the middle of next week I should care more.

Damned unlikely that there will be a lynch before then.

Well, I Have said you are Scum before for using AtE just like this. I'm starting to think I need to move my vote. Would do it in a heartbeat if I wasn't hydraing with Suz.

I don't do AtE. Never have.

Where the hell does it look like I'm using AtE in my post? Why would I need to on the very first day of a game when no one's voting for me?

[Klingoncelt]

It's after 2am my time, I've been running on 4 hours' sleep the past few nights,

<snipped for clarity>

Apparently being (Insert time past midnight) has become the go to solution nowadays.

Just a little comment now while I'm calm, to potentially avoid an explosion later. RL is RL, I expect people to be generally truthful about it, and I expect people to respect it. My RL statement are always true. End PSA.

Yep.

Never a good thing to lie about real life.

[Klingoncelt]

It's after 2am my time, I've been running on 4 hours' sleep the past few nights, I'm in several other large themes, and this one JUST started.

I'm really not emotionally involved with it right now. By the middle of next week I should care more.

Damned unlikely that there will be a lynch before then.

Well, I Have said you are Scum before for using AtE just like this. I'm starting to think I need to move my vote. Would do it in a heartbeat if I wasn't hydraing with Suz.

I don't do AtE. Never have.

Where the hell does it look like I'm using AtE in my post? Why would I need to on the very first day of a game when no one's voting for me?

You AtE as a course of nature grandma.

Well yeah, it's part of my actual personality, but it's not something I go to as a game tactic. It's RL.

[Klingoncelt]

V/LA until the 27th.

Trying to catch up now...

[Klingoncelt]

V/LA until the 27th.

Trying to catch up now...

what the fuck

RL things including health and internet issues.

I'll be here as much as possible.

[Klingoncelt]

... KC claims to be able to read me, so I'll let her decide on whether we should be friends of foes here.

Right now I do believe we are friends.

[Klingoncelt]

Actually, when I look back at Mathblade's earlier post, umm what's up with "grouping" people so early anyway?

Not liking this. We need to figure out who's who and whom they're aligned with. It's not like this is a simple "everyone plays for their own" kind of game.

Which brings me to this simple announcement:

- To ALL Humans (regardless of your origin, tribe and what not): Do NOT drop by (i.e. do not try to visit me).

Non-Humans are welcome to try though
here, kitty kitty kitty kitty

What about non-humans that might be friendly to humans, hmm?

[Klingoncelt]

It just seems like Exp is too "out there" to be Scum IMO. I have the same problem sometimes.

You two are on the same scumteam, aren't you?

[Klingoncelt]

The more you try to control people, the more we rebel and don't listen.

I had absolute control over that game but for a strongman kill that fucked up my protection.

*whistles innocently*

[Klingoncelt]

Now I can see why Wayward isn't doing well at this game - he's not a great player.

No. it's because he's Scum.

I bet he's partners with Expedience, a side-by-side ISO is interesting...

[Klingoncelt]

... D1 is trash AFAIC. The lynch is seldom better than a coin toss, and typically less likely to hit scum. D2 is where the game actually starts. Once there is real information to work with, people start getting serious about their win con.

Can scum do something spectacularly stupid on d1? Sure. Do they? Not typically. On d1, scum are on their toes. It's mid-game where mistakes are more likely to occur, where they get lazy, careless, or overconfident.

That meta is becoming outdated.

Recently there have been games where Town sniffed out a Scum and that Scum got bused hard so the teammates could get towncred.

Lots of Day1 Scum lynches lately.

[Klingoncelt]

@Dramonic: am I incorrect in saying that your read of Exped as Town is that he's 2dumb4scum? But why is he terrible town as opposed to terrible scum?

@Exped + Wayward: why are you buddying each other so hard? How could your townreads of each other be THAT strong?

Does anyone else feel like at least one of these slots has to be scum?

[Klingoncelt]

Grr, Saga called.

Before you go, document reads, where you are at page wise, and who you would be voting if caught up. Keep doing that.

With SaGa, I had the worst flu ever in my entire life. And I'm old.

It's different stuff this time, RL creating commitments and difficulties that I can't alter. And my internet will be iffy for a couple weeks.

[Klingoncelt]

if lld does not come in here and do shit i would not be opposed to lynching her

I asked someone to help run me through things, and checked several pages of posts after.

No help.

so one more fucking time, I am not reading 2000 posts. I've been in this game under 48 hours. I feel like I've replaced into a fucking game on day 5.

If you want me to help, then fucking give me things to give opinions on, direct me. Use me as a bloodhound, IDGAF.

But don't tell me to "get in here and do shit" when fucks like you have made it literally cancer to try and do so.

Okay, how about ISO-ing each of the players being voted?

It's a start.

[Klingoncelt]

Now I can see why Wayward isn't doing well at this game - he's not a great player.

No. it's because he's Scum.

I bet he's partners with Expedience, a side-by-side ISO is interesting...

Umm. Is this seriously where you're at in the game klingon?

-Cerb

Yeah...

I rolled Town this time, so don't expect to be impressed before Day 3.

[Klingoncelt]

Now lets ISO her.

hop on Exe for???

The game's too big with too many mechanics for me to comment on everything this freakin' early. Wednesday of next week is far more likely.

it doesn't take this long or shouldn't

I'm a Day 3 player and this is an extra-large game. Bad attempt at throwing shade.

Titus is actually very good with VCA - if she's Town.

As Scum, her analysis is a load of wank.

its a load of wank regardless of alignment :/ but nice to see you buttering up Titus here.

I'm not buttering up anyone. Again, you're failing in your attempt to throw shade. Also, her VCA is pretty good. Are you jelly?

THIS IS PROBABLY NOT SCUM.

ftfy

[Klingoncelt]

...
...
Now lets ISO her.

DID yOU POINT OUT THE SLIP?

~ Bins

Of course not. There is no slip.

[Klingoncelt]

That's not a slip... maybe try asking her for the reason for her V/LA lmao.

-Nahdia

My V/LAs aren't anyone's business.

I never fake RL to get out of playing a game, if that's what they're thinking.

[Klingoncelt]

town

Heartless (Antihero + TellTaleHeart)
dramonic
Almost50
Mathblade
Lady Lambdadelta
Expedience

scum

KuroiXHF
Klingoncelt
Stormblade (Albert B. Rampage + Errantparabola + Nahdia)
davesaz
Cane + Able (House + Wake88)
Tim (Iecerint + ActionDan)
rb
Cephrir
Luna Fox
BBMolla

and everyone else is null or I don't remember anything they've done

You know what's weird about this list?

Wayward Thinker isn't on it.

Now as much as I've been connecting WT to Expedience, you'd think No Retreat would have read up on that hydra to find more bad excuses to "scumread" me.

Yep, there's no way Nero could have reads on me and Expedience without a read on WT...

Hmm...

[Klingoncelt]

I accidentally didn't move Klingoncelt to slight scum,

Town: Wayward Thinker, Cephrir, rb, Heartless, Luna Fox
Slight town: Klingoncelt, Almost50, Nosferatu, Stormblade, A Song of Ice and Fire, BBMolla, Toogeloo, DrippingGoofball
Null: dramonic, Salt Squad, Mathblade, davesaz, copper223, Tim, Franky, Wake88, KuroiXHF
Slight scum: Titus, TheWayItEnds, Lady Lambdadelta
Scum: RAM

apparently I don't exist

And Expe leaves Nero off his list.

smh...

Am I the only one seeing it? Surely someone else does.

Any one of Expedience, Wayward Thinker, or their minion No Retreat should be today's lynch.

@Wake88

- I'm right. You know how sometimes I get the Scumteam right. I did it here. Be a sheep.

[Klingoncelt]

the copper wagon is also getting good

Cerb, vote for Expedience, Wayward Thinker, or No Retreat, they're all Scum. I promise.

[Klingoncelt]

Hey Heartless/RAM, I am a genie giving a two for one special.

Vote Kuroi with me.

Short wagon day too.

Titus, vote for any of Expedience, No Retreat, or Wayward Thinker. You'll be glad you did.

[Klingoncelt]

Heartless is like my strongest townread! what are you doing copper. If you knew anything about anti's meta at all, they would be your strongest townread too, the fact that you called meta on anti to scumread him is very very concerning.
Hmm I don't like Klingon's posting either.

No Retreat's is far worse. Scumreading a player for going V/LA? Really? Just one player, no any of the others that go V/LA.

Vote for No Retreat, Expedience, or Wayward Thinker, make MafiaScum strong again!

[Klingoncelt]

Yes. I understand that. I'm meanwhile tugged in no less than 5 different directions.

Heartless's arguments are sound on Copper.
Kuroi is an obvious scumfuck and has been wagoned by my townreads.
Klingon just needs to die.
Wake is scum.
Math is just pull my hair out.

Like most everyone active and townreading each other agrees on something in here.

Titus, go take a nap, then vote for Expedience, No Retreat, or Wayward Thinker. They are Scum. From the same Scumteam. They are not Town, or friends of Town.

[Klingoncelt]

Kuroi still looks like the counterwagon to Wayward.

VOTE: Vote: Wayward Thinker[/vote ]

this

[Klingoncelt]

Klingoncelt - has posted nothing of value, and has a few buddying posts. When asked to prove her great meta reads, she vanished

Titus - you lied.

You flat-out lied.

I never said anything about having great meta reads ready to go.

Fuck, 48 hours into a game, I usually don't know who all the players are - even in a small game.

I am good at meta-reading players, but it takes time. I've said often, in games you were in, that I can usually do a meta-dive on no more than 3 players per Day phase.

I'll give you this - the three names I listed are on the same team. That team is Scum.

It's after 6am and I'm tired, ISO them yourself & look at the interactions. Check the timestamps too.

[Klingoncelt]

Titus you have alot of town reads and very few scum reads which I think is p odd. Celt not reacting to my push on her also pisses me off. Gonna ISO WT and Copper now since no one bulleted a case for me.

Your "push" is phony.

[Klingoncelt]

Titus you have alot of town reads and very few scum reads which I think is p odd. Celt not reacting to my push on her also pisses me off. Gonna ISO WT and Copper now since no one bulleted a case for me.

I am odd. This is a cult game. I don't expect there to be many scum at start.

I don't mind a Klingon flip at all. Grandma (nickname I use for her) is acting like her scum meta.

You're lying again.

There are people in this game that are well used to my Scum meta, Titus. They know you're lying.

[Klingoncelt]

Nope, not really seeing WT scum.

Of course you aren't.

lol

[Klingoncelt]

“Klingoncelt - Scum” I think she is a 1v1 with Titus and Expedience here. If Titus and Expedience are town, she is probable scum. Reading back the COM hunting section I don’t like it and I don’t like how she mentions that we are likely in a different timezone. This should be fundamentally irrelevant. Post 710 if Titus is town and trying to get them to shut up is all kinds of bad. But if Titus is scum and spamming up the thread (which she can do quite well as scum) this is town aligned.
A lot of the posts for KlingonCelt depend on how to read other players and I don’t like that. I wish they would post some (or more depending your opinion) original content to help me sort out both slots.

2648 is also all kinds of bad. Other games are not indicative of this one. Site meta is a thing, but it is a thing I fucking hate.

I also don’t like that they are pairing Kuroi and Expedience. That is completely unsupported.

I have changed my mind on Kuroi and Expedience. I still have Kuroi on my Scum list, but he''s not paired with Expedience, WT, and No Retreat. He's on a different team.

I don't care that you (and others) don't like site meta (or player meta, or VCA.) Meta works for me. It works well. I'll keep using it.

I'm also no longer sure that Titus is Town. She's fishing too much for information. As Town she usually demands that everyone keep their shit a secret until it's time for the popcorn claim.

[Klingoncelt]

Mathblade, I don't think Klingoncelt is pairing me and Kuroi, I think she's pairing me and Wayward Thinker.

I would support lynching Klingoncelt.

I bet you would.

[Klingoncelt]

Shitty posturing

Be lynched to-day

Be lynched to-day

Be lynched to-day

[Klingoncelt]

These two things conflict. You say you know that these three people are Scum, which is lawl, cuz I think we are all town, but before that you say "don't expect to be impressed before day 3." So either your reads are shit here and you are telling the truth about having a good game by day 3 or you're reads are right (but they aren't) and you are impressing us right now with your for sure scum reads day 1. So which is it? Should we trust your Scum reads now or are these reads shit now?

You're right.

I usually can't get it together until Day 3.

But once in a while, it's like it was handed to me on a silver platter.

You, Expedience, and No Retreat have interacted as a team. A Scum team.

I am 100% sure of this.

[Klingoncelt]

I rolled Town this time, so don't expect to be impressed before Day 3.

Don't expect to live till day 3. :/

So I'm the Scumteam's choice for NK?

Thanks for posting that in the game thread so everyone can see it.

No Retreat's is far worse. Scumreading a player for going V/LA? Really? Just one player, no any of the others that go V/LA.

I have experience with you going v/la to lurk it out as scum. [/quote]

I have never lurked as Scum - or Town or 3rd Party, and I sure as fuck would never lie about V/LA.

Here's something special for you - I sincerely hope that you gain firsthand experience with the reason I went V/LA in that other game. You're a cruel bastard.

[Klingoncelt]

I rolled Town this time, so don't expect to be impressed before Day 3.

Don't expect to live till day 3. :/

So I'm the Scumteam's choice for NK?

Thanks for posting that in the game thread so everyone can see it.

No Retreat's is far worse. Scumreading a player for going V/LA? Really? Just one player, no any of the others that go V/LA.

I have experience with you going v/la to lurk it out as scum.

I have never lurked as Scum - or Town or 3rd Party, and I sure as fuck would never lie about V/LA.

Here's something special for you - I sincerely hope that you gain firsthand experience with the reason I went V/LA in that other game. You're a cruel bastard.

fixed

[Klingoncelt]

You're a cruel bastard.

I'm sure I am. I don't really like how you are name calling here to gain sympathy like I'm somehow being mean to you for suggesting that you are scum. Its mafia, I'm scumhunting. Like I said earlier maybe you going V/LA and being mafia were just a coincidence. I don't know whats gong on, if you are sick or whatever is going on I hope you feel better or the problem fixes itself.

However

I have serious reservation about your slot. You sorta cherry picked my review of your iso. I don't understand why you pushed for an Exe lynch with the reasoning that it would help you read Titus when you were already town reading her. And I'm not sure why you didn't address this unless you are flat out ignoring things and hoping they go away.

Your post about me not listing WT as a town or scum read is balls and totes ignores the fact that said list did NOT contain several players so it feels off and scummy.

I'm not trying to gain anyone's sympathy.

If you knew anything about my private life you'd know better than to say that.

Speaking of private life, I checked everywhere that I could think of, there's no rule that compels players to disclose why they're V/LA. That you're so interested in my whereabouts, I have to think you're stalking.

You're either stalking me or accusing me of cheating.

Both offenses can get you banned.

You should be policy lynched at the very least, Creep.

Beyond that I don't give a flying fuck, a rat's ass, or a tinker's damn how you feel about my slot.

VOTE: No Retreat

[Klingoncelt]

These two things conflict. You say you know that these three people are Scum, which is lawl, cuz I think we are all town, but before that you say "don't expect to be impressed before day 3." So either your reads are shit here and you are telling the truth about having a good game by day 3 or you're reads are right (but they aren't) and you are impressing us right now with your for sure scum reads day 1. So which is it? Should we trust your Scum reads now or are these reads shit now?

You're right.

I usually can't get it together until Day 3.

But once in a while, it's like it was handed to me on a silver platter.

You, Expedience, and No Retreat have interacted as a team. A Scum team.

I am 100% sure of this.

You guys here that? She's 100% sure.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I want this dead more than anything right now.

I bet you do, Scum.

[Klingoncelt]

Not liking you more Klingon. This looks like you are picking a lot of low hanging fruit and bundling it together.
Furthermore if you think Titus is scum then in your world she is either A) bussing Kuroi which is not Titus scum meta. Titus would probably not bus in D1 28 player multiball. Or B) You have a scum team with Titus, no Retreat, WT, and Expedience. Titus wouldn't risk so little interaction with WT and No Retreat as scum. Or C) Titus is on a third scum team. This is unlikely as mod confirmed 5 factions. Luna is probably on one with this "win with humans" stuff same with BBMolla. This means likely at most two scum teams and maybe a cult faction.

So the world you are pitching I don't think can exist and somewhere your reads are wrong. It just becomes a matter of why and I think it is to butter people up.

Now I know my post has a lot of "if then else" in it and we can see which but I completely understand that certain things will change those associatives and make the game clearer.

My read on Titus isn't solid.

My read on Expedience, No Retreat, and Wayward Thinker is.

[Klingoncelt]

Don't think Nero would of forgotten WT if WT was his buddy. Is that what you're implying? I'm not really sure what you're implying.

It depends on how one lists players in their notes.

One wouldn't have to list Scummates because one already knows their alignment. But one would be careful to list other players.

So yeah, it's possible for two teammates to each leave a teammate off their list.

[Klingoncelt]

I have changed my mind on Kuroi and Expedience. I still have Kuroi on my Scum list, but

he''s not paired with Expedience, WT, and No Retreat.

He's on a different team.

Kuroi still looks like the counterwagon to Wayward.

VOTE: Vote: Wayward Thinker[/vote ]

this

And how the fuck can you have Kuroi on your scum list if you're saying this?

You're just making it up as you go along.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I really wonder what goes on in that head of yours.

Who me?

Or Expedience?

[Klingoncelt]

... my VLA starts soon.

Hopefully no one will accuse you of going V/LA so you can cheat in the game.

[Klingoncelt]

Klingon : I believe 2804 is correct, and you never made any post connecting Expedience to Kuroi. What do you mean when you say you changed your mind about them, given that you had never shared an opinion regarding a connection between those slots?

-Cerb

When I see players as scummy, I tend to lump them all into one basket, at first.

Usually it's Day 3 before I can get everyone somewhat sorted and separated, and get my if/then's organized.

I saw them both as Scum, and auto-lumped them together at first.

I'm still not nuts about Kuroi, but he's higher up the food chain that Expedience and those other two.

[Klingoncelt]

It means that I liked Klingoncelt's confidence this game (that's why I was initially townreading her). But I checked her ISO in BLOODBORNE MAFIA, a recently completed game in which Klingoncelt was scum, and saw similar kinds of posting.

Whut?

Lemme get this straight, as Town I'm supposed to be confident, but as Scum I'm supposed to be something else?

I don't have Multiple Personality Disorder, I'm me no matter what alignment I roll.

Outside of year 1 noobs, most players are consistent.

[Klingoncelt]

What I am getting is that rude Kling is more likely to be town Kling, that is likely what she means about Titus lying about her meta.

Maybe? She wasn't very rude in BLOODBORNE MAFIA, but she was at times kind of snappy / blunt in a way that I would usually associate with town. I did find a counterexample in another game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7455498.

I wasn't being rude there, I was being annoyed.

Not

alignment

indicative.

[Klingoncelt]

You say KC was connecting Expe and Kuroi. She wasn't. Instead of correcting you, she agrees that at one point she was connecting those two, but has since changed her mind.

That inconsistency /contradiction concerns me....like Expe said, it's as though she's not actually holding these reads, and so just went with what you said, even though it wasn't true.

-Cern

Would it help if I listed everyone that pinged my scumdar?
A Song of Ice and Fire
BBMolla
Dramonic
Expedience
Kuroi
No Retreat
Titus
Wayward Thinker

[Klingoncelt]

copper223 what IS your read on RB?

What's yours?

What's your read on Expedience?

On Wayward Thinker?

What's your read on Titus?

[Klingoncelt]

If I can vote KC, the rest of you certainly can.

-Cerb

Cerb, I didn't roll Scum this game.

You want me alive.

If you're town, that is.

[Klingoncelt]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Hmm.. I guess Titus is Scum after all.

Sadz.

[Klingoncelt]

You can be anyone, saga frontier mafia are two examples of her scumgame

You should provide links, it makes it easier to find.

Wake88

- you should turn them on to the Classic Rock Mafia game. That was fun.

But it's stupid for people that don't like and sure as hell don't understand how to interpret meta to claim to be able to sort me according to playstyle points that are Not Alignment Indicative.

In fact, it looks to me like someone's trying really hard to fabricate a phony case against me.

[Klingoncelt]

I respectfully disagree. This looks more like Saga than Space Dandy.

You would also think by now that she would take my hints.

Titus, you're not even close to reality.

Sit down.

[Klingoncelt]

I really dislike all these "I'm only good on Day X onwards"
FMPoV everyone should try their best D1 because that's the only time they're guaranteed to be alive.
Looking back on Klingy's posts i dont like them.
But i don't see why she's scummier than Kuroi on that matter, who's just sitting around spouting reads and not even reading the posts his scumreads make.

Most players suck on Day 1, especially in large games. It does take a while to sort everyone out.

Now I have met players on this site that could sort the entire playerlist by the middle of Page 3. I wish I were that good.

[Klingoncelt]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how sure are you she'll flip scum.
Sorry if im asking too much, but you guys (and specially you Titus) seem very confident.

Titus' reads generally suck.

Ask anyone.

[Klingoncelt]

we aren't going to get clean wagons in this game

IIoA

[Klingoncelt]

Some people should not be allowed in theme games

They'll never learn how to play if they never get to try.

[Klingoncelt]

Guys, may I please have your input on 3330?

I'm back & forth with Titus.

That read's going to take time to sort.

[Klingoncelt]

You are Scum. there are plenty of reasons to think so as well. Doing pre-flip, saying you have a Scum team nailed on top of saying "don't expect much from me until day 3" yeah, just not gunna buy that.

Actually, I'm not Scum this game.

[Klingoncelt]

VOTE: No Retreat

So... is this a PL or do you think NR is Scummy for these reasons? Its not clear.

I think he's Scum. On the same team with you & Expedience.

[Klingoncelt]

/low groan

if you're scumreading wayward why arent you voting them?

I'm Scumreading him and 2 of his teammates.

I can't vote for all 3 at once. I had to make a choice.

[Klingoncelt]

I have never lurked as Scum - or Town or 3rd Party, and I sure as fuck would never lie about V/LA.

What's your definition of lurking?? Cuz I would call your play in Soccer Spirits "mostly lurking".

Lurking is being onsite, reading the game thoroughly, yet avoiding posting.

There's a big difference between someone that lurks in some games and what I do.

I'm a low-number poster.

I simply don't make tons of posts, and I never make walls.

Very often, especially in larges, there's a pages-long fight between a couple players. When that shit's going on I

will

kinda sorta lurk-ish, there's no point in trying to post in the middle of that, the post will be swallowed up. I'll wait for a blank spot to appear.

[Klingoncelt]

This list looks completely random.

It isn't.

[Klingoncelt]

...You could vote the one with a wagon on him?

Yeah, I could.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

[Klingoncelt]

I think this will be my last post on this. In 694 you are town reading Titus. She (Titus) made 3 posts between 694 and 752 What in those three posts made you change your Titus read?

Titus was my IC. I've been in games with her for several years on 4 different sites. A sideways glance from her, an ill-timed sneeze, the slightest change in the wind, and my Scumdar could explode. Or it could give the all-clear.

I think I've said thatI'm back and forth with her.

As big as this game is, I'm going to try and sort some others today (Day1), maybe I'll come to more solid conclusions with them. I'll get back to Titus later.

[Klingoncelt]

also I will not accept a "Maths 692 made me change my mind" I think that's totes buddying her.

I find Math's play today to be a bit unusual, so they have little influence on my decisions.

EVERYONE -

How to link to a post:

Type in, or click on
[/post ] (close the bracket, of course.)

Put the desired post number inside:

[post]692[/post ]

A highlighted link with be created:

[post]692

If you don't do that, I will not go hunting for the fookin' post.

Thanks.

[Klingoncelt]

Would it help if I listed everyone that pinged my scumdar?
A Song of Ice and Fire
BBMolla
Dramonic
Expedience
Kuroi
No Retreat
Titus
Wayward Thinker

Great! Why is dramonic scummy to you? What's your read on me? (3-4 sentences on each, please)

"Reasons" is all I'll say right now. He's not my strongest Scumread, btw.

I'm Null on you and way too many others.

Right now it's all I can do to catch up to the day's posts. I hope to get to where I can actually sit back and do some ISO-ing and meta-diving on a bunch of players.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm asking Luna to confirm he is in that PT alongside the claimed 3 members,

Why would i confirm something like that whether true or false?

as well as tell us if there any other members w/o outing who they are.

Why are you interested in this information?

1- Because he already claimed something similar to you, duh! If he's not in your PT he's highly suspicious. Do you think we have TWO non-human groups who are both aligned with town?

2- Same reason, but in reverse. If there are only 4 of you then you only have 1 scum in the PT. If you have like 6 you may have 2 or even 3 (of different factions though). It would make it easier for me to pick the odd one out if there were only 4 of you than it would be to pick the 2/3 out of 6/7/8 (although I feel like I'm stretching it with 8 in one PT I think there should be 4-6 in there).

[Klingoncelt]

Mastin, could you delete my previous post 3650, please? I accidentally submitted without doing anything.

<<< While I believe you, this would be overstepping my boundaries as a moderator, sorry. >>>

Do you think we have TWO non-human groups who are both aligned with town?

I do, either that or there's a Town-friendly and a Benign Neutral group.

[Klingoncelt]

Don't have time to read all this before I go but we have more than 10 days. Vote Titus please while I am away. I hope to come back to a Titus lynch

Ahh, now that's the MathBlade I remember!

And, no, I'm voting someone else today.

[Klingoncelt]

Would it help if I listed everyone that pinged my scumdar?
A Song of Ice and Fire
BBMolla
Dramonic
Expedience
Kuroi
No Retreat
Titus
Wayward Thinker

this is just an OMGUS list
Klingon into the scum pile

-sc

Actually, it's not OMGUS, there are "reasons." Also, note that I used the word "pinged." I don't see

everyone

on that list as hardcore Scum. Just suspicious, mostly.

[Klingoncelt]

So there's 3 lynches that I'm happy with, this thread has reached to almost page 150. Even if it's Day 1, it's not a normal Day 1. I feel like there's more than enough interactions to do a good VCA and get a lot of information from Night 1 flips.

VCA is pure shit

just saying

~Ice

Further into the game it's useful if it's done by someone that knows how to do it.

Day1 VCA is a smokescreen made from burning bullshit.

[Klingoncelt]

I think this will be my last post on this. In 694 you are town reading Titus. She (Titus) made 3 posts between 694 and 752 What in those three posts made you change your Titus read?

Titus was my IC. I've been in games with her for several years on 4 different sites. A sideways glance from her, an ill-timed sneeze, the slightest change in the wind, and my Scumdar could explode. Or it could give the all-clear.

Did it, though?

I think I've said thatI'm back and forth with her.

You didn't answer the question. What exactly did you see or think about that changed your mind?

Vibes.

[Klingoncelt]

See, mine doesn't have 'Town' in it either.

Nor does mine.

[Klingoncelt]

If it's so ambiguous that I can't even use this information to solve the game i.e. hunt Scum, I may as well replace out.

Not saying I will, but unless we have a lead, SOMETHING, how am I supposed to work with this?

What we know is that there are factions, but there's been nothing that says they are Town or Scum, and anything that can give us clues has been redacted.

Perhaps if you look at it in terms of World War III: Most of Europe allied with North America, Israel, Australia, Japan, and South Korea; South and Central America allied with Spain and Portugal; Most African countries allied with each other; China allied with most of Asia; Most Mideast countries allied with each other; Russia and India each standing alone. So - who's the good guy? I think it's whatever alliance I live in, you think it's your alliance, everyone thinks their alliance is the good guy.

At least that's how I think this setup's being promoted.

[Klingoncelt]

So one of the members of my neighborhood.
Has found out that Salt Squad is part of some Isolationist faction?

What the heck is even that.

Must be that "Other" we've heard tell of.

[Klingoncelt]

I did receive a cryptic message last Night.

Just noting this in case Wake hasn't elaborated on it yet.

[Klingoncelt]

It is weird how the individual vampire and human wincon is different from the individual wulden one :/

It is more weird, that it seems to align with MINE, but different.
SPECIALLY knowing that our spy must be Wulden.

As crazy as this game is, the spy could be an ally...

[Klingoncelt]

*Sigh*

*Lays back in a hammock, grabs a beer, and quietly holds a message about the existence of an SK-sounding entity*

I'll have to wade through 30 pages to find out, won't I?

[Klingoncelt]

even to vampire recruit in one night is OP for a faction spescially a claiming town

there is no way I can assume you and kuroi are/were town >.>

Because if I was scum the mod would give me a fake claim upon request.
If I was scum I would CLAIM SCUM.

Nobody claims Scum.

It's considered game-throwing and I've seen people banned for it.

[Klingoncelt]

*Sigh*

*Lays back in a hammock, grabs a beer, and quietly holds a message about the existence of an SK-sounding entity*

I'll have to wade through 30 pages to find out, won't I?

Not unless you use the power of the 3-letter word.

the 3-letter word?

[Klingoncelt]

This game contains an entity called the

Destroyer of Worlds

.

Not a happy, friendly-sounding name there.

[Klingoncelt]

This game contains an entity called the

Destroyer of Worlds

.

And Salt Squad is an Isolationist...

VOTE: Salt Squad

[Klingoncelt]

This is the weirdest game ever. It feels like haunted house instead of legit mafia.

Albert

It feels like Clue with a bunch of other games' rules taped together and all the players are eating LSD.

[Klingoncelt]

This game contains an entity called the

Destroyer of Worlds

.

And Salt Squad is an Isolationist...

VOTE: Salt Squad

See, I'm tempted to join you, but could you persuade me just a teensy bit more?

Still catching up...

I'm at the part where SS and Fire&Ice are screaming at each other in all caps.

[Klingoncelt]

Kuroi's PM:

You are an Individual Vampire Doctor.
[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]

dram's PM:

You are an Undead Risen Slave.
[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]

These two players are obviously scum due to the REDACTED - FACTIONAL portion of their PM. The redacted information is almost assuredly factional chat and/or team buddies. Titus and Molla didn't have any such redaction, and both were Humans, so they are almost assuredly town flips. Multi-town game doesn't necessarily indicate that the towns are against each other, even though there flavor might suggest it.

Based on speculation of flips, I want to say dramonic was possibly our cult since his PM is the only PM thus far to state that at least one member is required to be alive to win.

I attempted to scan the location of dramonic last night, but I got a "no result" returned, which suggests I was blocked as I see nothing in dram's flavor to suggest that targeting him would cause a location scan to fail.

"SCUM" are given FAKECLAIMS. When the player dies, the fakeclaims show up in the flip.

Did you see ANY fakeclaims in ANY of the flips?

None of the deceased were Scum.

Did you see "Cult" in Dramonic's flip? No.

Please read. Please.

[Klingoncelt]

Also, as a heads up, I haven't read anything other than Day 2 start flips, the rest of the page that followed the flips, and my results from my night actions.

In a game like this.

VOTE: Toogeloo

Please help me eliminate this slot, everyone.

[Klingoncelt]

@Salt:

this is from post #3 (Game Mechanics)

Each faction, if possessing a non-human race, has a one-shot ability to recruit a human to their faction.

Emphasis "human". This ability will fail if more than one faction attempts this on the same target. This ability does not work on all humans.

Regardless of success or failure, this ability is used up once activated.

Tell me again, so you think each member of your faction can recruit on their own?????

Note: This isn't flavour for you guys who are not buying Wuldens for scum. I say WULDENS AND VAMPIRES are BOTH SCUM!

The Vampire did not flip with a fakeclaim.

[Klingoncelt]

Kuroi is definitely scum for more than just the Redacted - Factional portion of his role pm too. Don't forget he claimed Human Doctor before he was lynched.

Anyone with a PT will have Factional abilities, like, for example, having a PT. Of course this info will be redacted. NAI.

[Klingoncelt]

Can you guys at the very least let me live for 1 night target a human and make them confirmed town?
Or at least have a confirmed win condition that wins with town.

Salt if you can confirm someone as town why didn't you do it last night?

this.

[Klingoncelt]

By using my 1-shot recruit me and the person I recruit can confirm each other as town.

[Klingoncelt]

No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.

Why are you telling people that there's Scum in Luna's 'Hood? Was that confirmed?

[Klingoncelt]

No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.

No, everyone in the hood didnt know who i was targeting, i did receive some target suggestions but i didnt specify whether i was following them or not (i wasn't)

VOTE: Salt Squad

[Klingoncelt]

It's pretty much confirmed by Luna herself that she was known to the scum as a Faction cop. She's like the absolute perfect target to be redirected, if it exists in the game.

Exactly -

IF

it exists in this game.

There is no evidence that one does.

[Klingoncelt]

the constant one day refrain just makes me think you have a powerful one-shot ability

No I can literally conf myself as town.

If you're scum and you successfully recruit, your target becomes scum with you and says you're town.
If your recruit fails we learn nothing whatsoever.
You don't get confirmed either way. Either we hear from someone we can't trust, or we don't. But it is an argument that scum would make to

try

to get confirmed.

.

[Klingoncelt]

My gut keeps saying Salt Squad is Town and I'm notoriously bad at mislynching people based on 'reason' instead of just listening to my gut so I'm not voting SS today.

p-edit: I see no real issue with Salt Squad's plan really. They recruit someone, they tell us who and we lynch Salt Squad. They're literally giving us a conftown and letting us kill them. On the safe side, we can lynch SS Day 3 but there's no reason to do it today. If they're scum, they're dead Day 3 regardless - we can use today to find connections and there's a chance they ARE town as I see it. So it's a dumb lynch to make today.

Do you not understand that SS can get a Scumbuddy, like you for example, to say "Oyeh I haz convertedz!"

There's no way SS can "confirm" anything.

[Klingoncelt]

Yes I get it, you did a nation check and it seemed to work out dandy but that's also a power that everybody in the game has and if there IS a redirect mechanic we have no idea how it works. I'm happy to kill SS Day 3.

Prove that there's a redirect.

[Klingoncelt]

Apart from WT I'm starting to just want to lynch all of the hood until we find the scum because I'm tired of this game revolving around this stupid hood. Fuck the hood.

Could you buddy your cult leader just a little bit harder there, pal?

Everyone might not have yet noticed how over-the-top your white knighting for Salt is.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm playing against your wincon now because to your own point: your hood has scum. I have a pretty damn strong townread on you, and a pretty damn strong scumread on Stormblade.

So I'm not only lynching a strong scumread, I have confirmation that there's a spy in your hood that needs lynching. Also, your hood is small and with my confidence that you're Town I'm pretty sure we can kill the scum pretty quickly without needing to kill any more of the hood since the rest of you are not-scum. No? Yes?

I don't give a fuck about your hood once the scum is dead and I won't waste any more lynches on it because like I said, it doesn't seem to serve either Town or Scum. I just want to kill the scum and move on from this heartbreakingly shit point of the game where everything is revolving around some hood with a shared PT that like 80% of the game isn't privy to so we're all running in fucking circles debating the unknowns of the unknowns instead of hunting scum.

Reachy reachy...

You're trying so hard to turn a read into a redirect.

Too bad you're failing.

Salt is Cult and you were converted last Night.

If they're allowed to live another Day, they'll bring someone else into the Cult.

How many players have made claims? All of you are targets.

LYNCH

SALT SQUAD

NOW.

[Klingoncelt]

Luna, stop trying to lynch RB. They're clearly Individual Human, and Individual Human wins with us.
-Nahdia

RB's trying too hard to save Salt.

Waaaaaaaaaaayy too hard.

RB's been culted.

[Klingoncelt]

Salt Storm is town.
VOTE: LLD[ote]

Why do you think so?

[Klingoncelt]

So the options are.

I flip town there is scum in your hood and you lynch StormBlade
I flip scum there is still probably scum in your hood and we lynch StormBlade anyway

Nice

Why would you include yourself as Scum as an option if you're Town?

[Klingoncelt]

Vote: SS

Going back here as i no longer think rb might be against us.
If there is a person in my hood i'd suspect to be scum, it would be copper right now, but im literally unsure, everyone's been pretty townie in there, which is another reason im willing to trust my current result.

So who is in your hood.

Copper, StormBlade, You and who else o3o

Mad fishin' going on there.

[Klingoncelt]

Like Luna come on there has to be scum in your hood unless I have abysmal reads this game.

Well you're the only one who knows that for certain right now.
But i find it highly unlikely to see that everyone else in my hood but me is scum.
1 person at worst. None at best.

Even on Normalish setups, Neighborhoods dont contain more than 1 scum unless they're like gigantic.

Hey

@Wake

- Remember that one time when you put Scum Sammeech, Dragonspawn, and House in a neighborhood with Town SilverWolf? But I thought Town Derptex was Scum in my neighborhood? That was funny.

Actually, neighborhoods can have 0-100% Scum. It's usually random.

[Klingoncelt]

Well you definitely are wrong about me and I appreciate the time you gave me.

I don't expect you to lynch everyone in your hood because that goes against your survivor win con but there is definitely 2 scumz in your hood.

Like at least 2 scumz maybe even more.

So it went from 1 possible Scum being confirmed to 2 not likely Scum being confirmed,.

Exactly how were they confirmed?

By a redirected Cop?


Or by the guilty Cult Leader?

[Klingoncelt]

I mean sure, ppl can watch/protect me, and in that case im open again to scan in there instead of lynching, if that's the route we're going.

Why would anyone in their right minds waste a protect on you?

You sold out your entire neighborhood.

Dram is dead.

Your fault.

You cannot be trusted.

Now a Tracker, yes, putting a Tacker on you would be great.

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

[Klingoncelt]

I can't say I'm super pumped about lynching someone (Kling) who might have my win condition and is regularly mislynched, despite the fact I'm scumreading her

I share Dram's win condition.

I don't know anything about treaties.

I do know that Alexis Galenos was the heroine and Dmitri Damanos was evil.

[Klingoncelt]

Thing is she tried to take control of stuff in the hood and is making me super suspect of her.

Liar.

I tried to get everyone to work together.

I tried to get everyone to work as a team.

Thanks for being a maverick.

[Klingoncelt]

You guys know lynch baits can also roll scum right?

Heat should know my Scumgame from Soccer Spirits.

[Klingoncelt]

I think i found it

Vote: copper

Jesus High-Stepping Christ on a cracker.

[Klingoncelt]

I am reading Luna as having received my faction PM but actively playing against my wincon despite being told she was doing so by everyone else in the PT a dozen times, if that is confirmed by her flip I will ask the mod if there are grounds for a ban for playing against your wincon post game.

Unless my read changes I am ignoring her existence for the rest of the game.

2nd

[Klingoncelt]

So there is no old humanity contracts?

Read Dram's win condition.

[Klingoncelt]

Ice head obviously

this is her scum play meta wise

Neither one of you have ever been able to spot my Scum meta. Or my Town meta for that matter.

I'm Undead with Dram's WinCon.

[Klingoncelt]

How do you even know the Wuldens even have a redirector to begin with?? Mastin's post suggest there might be a redirector in game, but not necessarily in your PT and/or in the spy's faction.

Thank you.

[Klingoncelt]

Klingoncelt who spends most of the time interacting with Wake instead of interacting with the thoughts so far and asks for a vote of someone who Wake (I think) has confirmed Northern faction without reasons.

I've know Wake for years from that other site.

(Just saw a couple of interesting posts in the FZ, actually, from a couple of old friends. )

[Klingoncelt]

*known

[Klingoncelt]

No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.

Why are you telling people that there's Scum in Luna's 'Hood? Was that confirmed?

Luna herself said it lol.

Mastin said it was

possible

. It's also possible that the spy is on our side, an ally. But Luna couldn't discuss the possibilities with us in the PT, she had to blab everything out here instead.

[Klingoncelt]

Stormblade hopping on the LLD wagon without seemingly interacting with the Salt Squad claim makes almost no sense. It seems VERY opportunistic to say the least. It's one of the reasons that I think something funny is going on. But see the thing is I had a town read on them beforehand. It could be possible that Stormblade like the majority of everyone else seems to confuse race and wincon but it contributes to my punting on the Salt Squad bit for now. They said it doesn't 100% indicate it, yet they vote it as if it DOES and don't ask any investigative questions before doing so. They eventually unvote at entertaining the possibility, but if they knew it wasn't 100% indicative why weren't they asking questions first?

Reasonable point, I'll try to explain. Basically, there's a LOT of indication that Wulden are our enemies, especially for me because my faction's "spy" should it exist is Wulden. Basically, the vote was a knee-jerk reaction because I want the Wulden scumteam dead. Not to mention putting pressure on the slot is one way to get them to explain themselves faster, though I can't honestly claim that's what was going through my head. Forgive me if this game has left me frazzled. Once LLD explained themselves and I really thought about it, I backed off. ABR still thinks they're scum though so I guess we're voting there.
-Nahdia

Remember when the US got caught spying on Germany & the UK? True story. Angela Merkel was NOT happy.

Embarrassing, what with our countries being friends and all.

[Klingoncelt]

I've come to the conclusion that Luna's faction cop result is not fucked with, Salt Squad really is 'isolationist' - but isolationist doesn't mean scum/cult.

Read about the Individual Vampires - they're outcasts. Read about Kuroi's character Hans Pohl - he's an outcast. They're all

isolated and individual

and hold no particular allegiance to anyone. The 'Individual' factions are somewhat a neutral ground that win with a few different other WinCons. Also, 'isolationism' in political terms is commonly acccepted as meaning that you keep other people's business out of yours and you try to do the best with what you can (roughly speaking).

This all sounds very consistent with the flavour for Individual Vampires/Humans and I'm starting to really think that we've simply been reading isolationist wrong. Luna's result wasn't fucked with - Salt Squad IS an isolationist - but isolationist isn't the cult/scum indicator we thought it was.

The reason the result of isolationist makes salt scum is because they are denying being one.

*stands and applauds*

[Klingoncelt]

Klingon what do you lose by lynching me tomorrow.
If this game has a tracker they can just track me and confirm me as scum along with whoever I recruit if I am lying.


Or are you afraid of flipping scum and confirming Luna's cop was messed with?

You're Cult.

We lose a Town or Town-friendly player.

Also you're expecting an UNCONFIRMED Tracker to come to your rescue and out him/herself.

Brilliant.

[Klingoncelt]

I think we should all ignore scum Klingon because I am likely being tracked ^_^
If I was scum and needed 1 night action I would just do what Ram said and say isolationist faction was a town faction.

You're likely being tracked?

Really?

Did someone soft that?

Oh - you just made it up.

Okay.

[Klingoncelt]

[quote="In post 4911,
Klingoncelt is spewing nonsense that she doesn't believe again. Like, what happened to being 100% sure that WT, No Retreat, and I were scum together? It was just hot air.[/quote]

The read

has

changed, slightly...

I'm still certain that the 3 of you are on the same team. I'm not yet convinced it's a Town-friendly team.

<<< I'd fix this if I could figure out what broke. >>>

[Klingoncelt]

Actually, neighborhoods can have 0-100% Scum. It's usually random.

100% scum factions are the best :')

Beware those Wake88 games.

[Klingoncelt]

Eh. I'm not so sure about Salt. Thinking about it more, this feels like Legend of Zelda beeboy when he was begging for 1 more day to confirm he's town so he could just rolecop someone as scum. He might just be cult wanting to recruit one more person.
-Nahdia

Yeah... why didn't I think of that?

[Klingoncelt]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

[Klingoncelt]

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

ASIAOF culted/protected then? That might make some sense actually.

No, silly, I checked ASOIAF. These are the results. I'll be posting my results here instead of in the Hood, that place is no longer home.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

Err, huh? Aren't you defending LLD..?
-Nahdia

I'm trying to figure out why your apparent WinCon which is the same as Dram's is trying to kill cultists. Like I might be totally wrong but it seems to me that your supposed WinCon doesn't actually care if the cult exists or not.

What?

We have to lynch

somebody...

[Klingoncelt]

Dramonic was part of your PT, right Stormblade?

He was.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

Err, huh? Aren't you defending LLD..?
-Nahdia

I'm trying to figure out why your apparent WinCon which is the same as Dram's is trying to kill cultists. Like I might be totally wrong but it seems to me that your supposed WinCon doesn't actually care if the cult exists or not.

OK you are also scum.

Didn't you bother reading my case on him?

[Klingoncelt]

Dramonic was part of your PT, right Stormblade?

Yeah. I miss him
-Nahdia

Thing is she tried to take control of stuff in the hood and is making me super suspect of her.

Liar.

I tried to get everyone to work together.

I tried to get everyone to work as a team.

Thanks for being a maverick.

You were being kind of really bossy...

Because there were players in there spazzing out over a possible mole... pissed me off.

[Klingoncelt]

I can confirm my location. its other.

but I really don't know what that result suppose to mean.

It means someone (x) used a Night Action on you.

It means I checked your Location

It means someone else (y) checked your location +/or nation +/or race.

[Klingoncelt]

Ice head obviously

this is her scum play meta wise

Neither one of you have ever been able to spot my Scum meta. Or my Town meta for that matter.

I'm Undead with Dram's WinCon.

I saw enough from you to judge you meta wise

your today catchup felt like I'm in saga all over again.

Read my sig, dummy.

I log in late at night.

Most players post in the early afternoon.

I had over 30 pages to go through today.

Plus I'm V/LA - do you not see the V/LA banner by my avatar?

Now, tell me how logging into a site after 9pm proves a player is Scum.

Then start making

intelligent

posts, 'kay?

[Klingoncelt]

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

ASIAOF culted/protected then? That might make some sense actually.

No, silly, I checked ASOIAF. These are the results. I'll be posting my results here instead of in the Hood, that place is no longer home.

I'm asking whether you think ASOIAF being visited is possibly them being culted or protected.

What do you think?

I don't have enough info yet.

[Klingoncelt]

Copper + Klingon neighourhood scumteam?

Maybe
I'd find it funny coz last time we were both in a neighborhood that neighborhood also had 2 scum in it.

Copper + Klingon neighbourhood scumteam confirmed.

You need to die so much.

Someone get some rope...

[Klingoncelt]

Beware those Wake88 games.

Speaking of those games, I may start working on a massive one.

/pre-in

[Klingoncelt]

The flavor mentions 'Pinkskin' tribe, that I originate from it. There's no indication of multiple human factions in my role PM.

It does say the Pinkskin are in severe danger of nosferatu attacks, that Wuldens could encroach at any time, and the risk of undead attacking was not outside the realm of possibility. However, it also says fights erupted, and the tribe (my Pinkskin tribe?)

divided

.

Interesting...

My role PM basically says that we Undead hold Humans in very high regard and we have no desire to kill them.

Can you give us any details on these fights or how your tribe is divided?

[Klingoncelt]

How come it didn't tell me you ninja'd me

As far as I know, there's been claims of human town from Northern Tribes, a number of individual factions and some treaty claimers. Titus flipped West Faction. The only human-flavour place in terms of alignment that we haven't seen any claims or flips from is Eastern Kingdom.

So we should specifically look for an East player to lynch, is that what you're saying?

Cause that sounds scummy.

[Klingoncelt]

I feel like this is all pretty obvious. I forgot if I mentioned it before but the likelihood of a "spy" in the undeads is high and it's just as high a chance Celt is that spy.

Because you know so much about the Hood?

There's been no evidence presented beyond Mastin's warning that there's a Wulden in the Hood.

The odds of one being there are 50/50, either there is or there isn't.

Odds among the surviving members being the spy (if there is one) 1 in 4.

There's a 75% chance that I'm not the Wulden.

From YOUR pov.

The factual reality is I'm 100% not Wulden.

[Klingoncelt]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

"Loosely speaking, there is at least one town faction. They win if all threats to them are eliminated.

Loosely speaking, at least one faction is definitely a scum/mafia faction. They win if they control 50% of the living."

[Klingoncelt]

No, I think I get it. So everyone in the PT is guaranteed to count as undead. Per Mastin, undead for the purposes of that PT are Wulden and Undead Risen Slave(or whatever portion of drams' flip counts as your actual faction, not sure if Risen Slave was his role name, or if that's part of the faction name). In addition, everyone in that PT either shares the same wincon, OR is a spy.

After some talk back and forth, you determined that everyone in the PT was claiming to be Undead, therefore if their is a spy, they must be Wulden.

Is that about the gist of it?

-Cerb

No.

In my role PM I'm told who else is in my PT and I'm told that my neighbors are not human, vampire, nosferatu, et cetera, but Mastin can't promise that there are no Wulden.

[Klingoncelt]

Klingon's posting on Day 1 was just that she thought WT/Expedience/No Retreat were scum.

With your result she's convinced SS is cult and that I'm trying to protect them and therefore also cult. The No Retreat scum read seems to be an original line of thought. She's not really shy about voting any of her scumreads, but she never really pushes any of them either. It's just like, "X is scum" and then votes. It's basically slightly-above DGB level of participation for the most part. which is pretty poor. I don't really see much in Celt's specific reads that cry scum, but she's also not taking much of a stance on getting people she thinks are scum lynched. The reads are just there, not much is done about them so it's null to me. Based on her interactions I'd call her Scum.

Talks a lot about her own playstyle and ability to do meta-reads, and says in 752 that an Expedience flip can tell her if Titus is scum or not - but never specifies which of Expedience's flips indicate what. To me that's just real fucking scummy, because it's completely vague and lets her do pretty much whatever the fuck she wants in an Expedience post-flip situation and avoid any sort of accountability. She avoids directly saying anything anywhere and keeps her vote on No Retreat (a totally futile vote, as it was basically WT vs. Kuroi at that point) all the way up until Dram tells her to vote on something useful.

Her push on me is hilariously bad, and I think it's pretty scummy + opportunistic again to suggest that I've been culted overnight. That's a pretty big stretch to think that I'd overreact that badly (LLD was and still is a much stronger wagon) if I was cult and SS was cult with me, based off my questioning interactions regarding the neighbourhood/Copper. It really strikes me that she wants me to stop trying to assess your neighbourhood for scum, whereas the others in there seem to be open to the idea.

I feel pretty 'off' about Klingon after reading her ISO, and coupled with the fact that the neighbourhood collectively felt bad about her in the early game, I think she's likely scum.

You're lying.

Shall I go through it point-by-point?

I pushed as hard as I could on the Expedience/Wayward/No Retreat triad, and I'm still sure they are connected and not aligned with my win condition.

I also pushed hard on SS-is-Cult-and-so-is-RB, but that got drowned out.

So your claim "It's just like, "X is scum" and then votes" is pure horseshit.

Saying that I'm slightly above DGB-level, when I make more posts per 24 hours than she does in an entire game is, again, horseshit. And, oh, yeah, by the way,

I'M V/LA!!!!!!!!!

So you're lying about that.

"says in 752 that an Expedience flip can tell her if Titus is scum or not - but never specifies which of Expedience's flips indicate what."
Kind of a moot point since Titus was NK'd, but I don't recall

anyone

else being made to define what they're looking for in a flip.
And if it's a concern, why the fuck did you wait until now to mention it?

Oh - my meta reads? They're great. I haven't done any this game, though. You see,

I'M V/LA!!!!!!!!!

I like the way you try to make me look bad without explaining why you white knighted SaltScum so hard.

And then there's this:

It really strikes me that she wants me to stop trying to assess your neighbourhood for scum, whereas the others in there seem to be open to the idea.

There's been no "assessment" whatsoever, it's been nothing but a spazztard-fueled witch hunt. No one did a goddamn thing to figure out the Wulden issue.

Finally you give a ham-handed pile of words final decision in such a manner that I must beg of you to never consider a career in acting.

Your read is so full of bullshit that I'm thinking of having the listmods report you to the EPA for exceeding methane limits.

[Klingoncelt]

I share Dram's win condition.

I don't know anything about treaties.

I do know that Alexis Galenos was the heroine and Dmitri Damanos was evil.

If you were to flip, would you have redacted factional information?

Umm, yeah, I'm in a PT.

[Klingoncelt]

Until I get definitive proof other wise, I will auto-assume any flip with Redacted Factional information is scum, and if they had a fake claim it'd likely be there (as Mastina pointed out somewhere).

Redacted Factional Information might be nothing more than the shared link to the PT.

It could mean much more, like factional kills, but don't read into something what isn't there, people are fucking this game up pretty badly as it is.

[Klingoncelt]

@KC: You had a faction cop who claimed in an unsecure PT, who was widely townread by the game at large. Why did you watch ASOIAF instead of her?

-Cerb

I was the first to suggest copping within the PT.

The idea was shot down.

I (and I think someone else) suggested outing who would be investigated, so the investigates wouldn't overlap.

That idea was shot down.

The Hood was a dysfunctional clusterfuck by then, so I didn't waste time pushing reason or logic.

[Klingoncelt]

Kling seems like some kind of Watcher though with his results claimed on ASOIAF.

I couldn't have been more obvious.

[Klingoncelt]

I think you need to chill Klingy.

Please don't think, Luna, it's too much work for you.

[Klingoncelt]

*fixed, I hope

I share Dram's win condition.

I don't know anything about treaties.

I do know that Alexis Galenos was the heroine and Dmitri Damanos was evil.

If you were to flip, would you have redacted factional information?

Umm, yeah, I'm in a PT.

[Klingoncelt]

I was the first to suggest copping within the PT.

You suggested circular scanning assuming everyone was investigative...
Which again how does that help us figure out anything?
You seemed to assume everyone was factional cop like me, obviously the idea would be shot down.

[Klingoncelt]

Here is the problem. The entire day has been about "information" (reason for quotes later) instead of analysis. It is that "information" that people are sheeping. Yet the entire PT says that they don't trust the people in the PT. by consequence it means I do not trust the "Information" that has been shared in this thread.

Now the entire thread has been taken up with discussions of information over trying to read people. In regards to Luna especially for all the worry you have about there being a Wulden in your PT so you look to the main thread for help and out powers and some such. But you are not interacting with each other very much in the thread so we can help you find it and get reads off of it.

Instead after several pleas of "Hey don't claim" the group outs that they are undead and that there is a watcher with certain results. At best this is clogging up discussion of who to believe and who not to and is stopping actual read progression, and at worst all of y'all are scum and just spewing shit to see who reacts to what to know who has to go. Either way I see none of you trying to figure out what the win con means or suggesting ideas.

Speaking of which FoS Wake for wanting people to say a certain three letter word for a potential cult leader. That seems very odd. Also for not wanting to read it he is borrowing some of those ideas. 4828

Like I don't see much "helping a human treaty". The entire hood is toxic and I think in order to allow scumhunting we lynch within it. IMHO there is no way a "faction cop" a 2 shot BP a watcher and if dram was in there whatever they were since it is gone are all town. I don't see that.

Furthermore the undead had a person who could check Race in their flip. Wouldn't a faction cop that also included race be more op than the original race check? Then it would be a wincon and a race cop in one. Instead no one is thinking, slowing down and analyzing and trying to balance reads with that information. Quite frankly I am sick of it.

@Wake -- In my humble very strong opinion there are some people with North East West and Other that are all a part of the treaty but which parts. I would not go down the path you are thinking. You are still IMHO trying to use a certain element to break the game. If nation or location could break the game and every player picked that as pregame stuff then that would be ridiculous. Stop fishing and read my posts. I swear if you look hard enough you may find nachos. You get a huge FoS for wanting even more people to claim while I am trying to give away pants.

Yeah, Math this post was completely unhelpful.

I do better working with a group, sharing info and working out theories.

Luna said she doesn't like Hoods and has effectively ruined ours. So I'm putting whatever info I have out here in the game thread.

Would it make more sense to keep it to myself?

Absolutely not.

There are players more than happy to lynch me, and no doubt some would love to NK me.

It's better that the info is out here where it can be used, than sitting with me in a nonfunctional, paranoid neighborhood, or, worse yet, the Dead Thread.

[Klingoncelt]

it was probably best the undead were given the possibility of a traitor. yeah it made us blow up but if it hadnt been there, we would have been insanely powerful.

pretty funny that we tried recruiting No Retreat who ended up being the most wary of the New Humanity Treaty in the end.

I have to disagree.

In a group of fairly normal players it would be an interesting mechanic. Unfortunately our group had a special snowflake that made it clear that she didn't like neighborhoods and was doing all she could to create dissension and drama.

It cut down on the entire group's potential enjoyment of the game.

Luna Fox's shenanigans also led to my being force-replaced, the rest of the group, herself included, being nightkilled, and my replacement having to work super hard to get through each day.

Yeah, I was dumb, I took her bait and got all reactive, I'll freely admit to that, but she should have been force-replaced along with me.

Which calls into question Mastin's modding.

Henceforth I will WOTC Luna and her alts to the inner circles of hell. She's more concerned with being a special snowflake than actually playing the game. I will never sign up for a Mastin-hosted game, because she plays favorites.

That's what I have to say on the matter.

[Klingoncelt]

Yeah, about that Klingoncelt:
I received multiple complaints, not just from Luna Fox, but from

literally every member of the faction

about your actions.
You used some highly-abusive language.

The first time it happened, I gave you a warning: I told you that if it happened a second time, I was force-replacing you.

It happened a second time, BUT, the other players in the topic told me you had cooled down, you had improved, that you had smoothed things out with them.
I still made it clear that if you acted that way a third time, I was force-replacing you.

And then you acted that way a third time.

That's not playing favorites.
That's me enforcing my rules:

Have fun, but don't be a jerkass. Seriously,

I'll force-replace you if you prove toxic to the game's atmosphere.

I made the call that you were being toxic to the game's atmosphere. You had, by THRICE violating the same rule (not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES) shown that you were not going to improve your behavior any time soon. The abusive language you were using, especially aimed at a particular player, was not acceptable, and need I remind you: your two PMs to me after the decision were made

continued this

, even further than before.

I do not replace players lightly. I also don't warn them lightly. (For instance, rb once or twice came close to a warning with his posting, among others.) But if one player is proving detrimental to

multiple

players (it was not just Luna Fox, as you claim, but all your undead teammates), damn straight I'm going to tell them to either improve their game or leave mine. And you didn't improve.

The third time was what I referred to. Luna was stirring the pot with a very big spoon. It didn't help that I had no access to the faction PT at first. It didn't help that I was being scumread for being V/LA ( - and what the fuck is up with that? NO ONE should be scumread for V/LA,

EVER

.)

The first two infractions I was in large multiball games (plural,) ongoing so I couldn't say what needed said, but in those games lurky Scum was helping Town lynch the low-hanging fruit during the Day, then at Night Scum would kill the Town-aligned PRs. Guess who ultimately won.

Town was playing the same way here, exactly the same way. I was well past frustrated and halfway through furious by then. Fuck, Town, just hand Scum the game on a silver platter round about page 4 or 5 and let's be done with it.

But I did settle down after #2. #3 was entrapment.

Whatever.

It's done and done.

Out.