Gistou (Over!)

[rb]

/confirmed

[rb]

I want to talk about percentages again.

[rb]

I want to talk about percentages again.

70% chance Luna Fox will call you scum for this post

If Luna calls me scum for this post, there's a 42% chance she's scum.

If Luna is scum, that means a 67% chance that Exped is also scum.

If Exped is scum, there's a 91% chance that Ceph is Town.

What's the percentage possibility of being culled again?

[rb]

I get a slight town read from Luna, 58% is the exact percentage. I give Exped a 33% chance of being Town. That means that there's a 0.58 x 0.33 = 19% chance they're both Town. I think Luna and Exped are different alignments.

Since I give Exped a 67% chance of scum, there's a 0.67 x 0.91 = 61% chance that Ceph is Town.

I sure do love me some percentages.

[rb]

I want to talk about percentages again.

whyyyyy
Well percentages of someone being scum due to some weird math is fine, i just dont get the benefit of discussing chances of being culted, when the only ones interested in that would be the cult recruiters.

Why would only cult recruiters be interested?

[rb]

In other news my cat just dropped a dead mouse on my foot. There's a 73% chance it's native.

[rb]

It doesn't actually help them though right? I guess your point is that it doesn't help anyone do anything though. That's fair enough.

I don't understand BBMolla's point on page 1. I've been awake for 19 hours and it's not clicking. The fact that it's not clicking at 19 hours of no-sleep gives them a 54% chance of being scum. If I was at say 1-12 hours of waking and it wasn't clicking then I'd bump that up to 61%.

[rb]

Well that wouldn't really affect that percentage.

If you must know, the probability of Exped + Ceph both being Town is 38%.

[rb]

I would prefer if the discussion was "What's Luna's alignment" instead of "Who's Luna".

the answer to this question is 99% scum

I get a slight town read from Luna, 58% is the exact percentage. I give Exped a 33% chance of being Town. That means that there's a 0.58 x 0.33 = 19% chance they're both Town. I think Luna and Exped are different alignments.

Since I give Exped a 67% chance of scum, there's a 0.67 x 0.91 = 61% chance that Ceph is Town.

I sure do love me some percentages.

are these legit reads?

-sc

I'm mostly just trying to give Luna an aneurysm by talking about percentages as much as possible, but put in the plainest terms:

- Luna on slight town read for trying to direct discussion to something useful (I understand her point)
- Exped on slight scum read (he's pushing her about it for reason I don't quite understand, plus he's possibly buddying me)
- Ceph on slight town read (the alts altiness thing just seems like town motivated to me)

There's a 63% chance I talk about percentages in every post I remember to talk about percentages in for the rest of the game.

[rb]

Going to bed, might post more from phone or I might not: it's hard to get the % symbol on the phone.

[rb]

It's moving discussion away from a game of "whose alt is it anyway?"

Seems town to me. The reason isn't different to me townreading Luna for stopping percentage talk. I'm just bordering on sleep deprived and there's an 85% chance my wording needs to be more good like.

[rb]

If Salthydra is scum, how many of the named Town would you think were also scum? If any?

[rb]

Going to sleep now.

@Dram there's an 83% chance that you're the messiah

[rb]

If Salthydra is scum, how many of the named Town would you think were also scum? If any?

Probably around 3.

~Bee

There's a 59% chance that you'd actually name 1 but say this to get us to lynch 3 if you were ScumSaltSquad.

[rb]

There's a 31% chance I'll say less sig-worthy things when not sleep deprived.

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Luna lets be friends this game!

Everyone's my friend!

There's a 29% chance this ends in an emotionally turbulent fallout between friends which drags on for many months but ultimately just ends in an angry sex orgy.

Okay I'm awake now, re-reading the last few pages and doing some calculations.

[rb]

Luna Fox was slight town before I went to bed, I think she's more town now. Seems to be genuinely attempting to figure out the game.

Nosferatu I actually scumlean on as well. Somebody said last page what I was thinking before I got to posting this. In 485 it feels like Nos is setting Titus/Hydrouse for a fall. I don't really see the point of what he's pointed out or questioning.

Also the talk about other games feels useless to me. It all seems NAI and there's an 87% chance I don't factor in anything that someone is saying when they start referencing someone's meta.

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Whoever the person that said the game isn't even Day 1, could you please outline how and why these pre-game interactions are apparently unimportant?

It may as well be called Day 1 with the way interactions are going.

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Goddamn so I had 5 pages down in a big long catchup post and then my computer crashed so you people are just gonn ahve to to dealwith this shit sloppy shit and ur gonna like it

ok first 5 pages. from what i remember it was mostly bbmolla being dumb and ppl yelling. Tim was mad at him and i couldn't decide if it was disingeousous "trying really hard to look like town" or actually town. bbmolla wasn't actually town fori t. copper was right on that. luna was right to say people should stop giving a fuck. SC was bad when he called luna scum for that but was town when he said something else and i dont really remmber what it was. also THIS GUY. THIS FUCKING GUY. THIS GUY IS SCUM. AND IM GONNA VOTE HIM RIGIHT NOW:

VOTE: EXPEDIENCE

im actually so pos of this and whenever i get confident early game reads they're usually right so look the fuck out dude im tunneling you till the end of time.

other stuff. The ice head of Ice and Fire got salty and Titus called her town for it and Titus was probably right but NAI from Titus. ASOIAF lean town tho. Nosferatu dishes out some quality bant and Cephir apparently isn't about that lifestyle but he can step off bc Nosferatu is cool by me dude. i feel ike scum were moe inclined to harp on that molla bullshit for as long as they could bc it's the kind of discussion where ucan blend in and earn #townpoints without actually having reads.

anyway more to come SOON probably maybe and i will likely be more drunk by then this is just first 5 pages.

-Nahdia

I'm inclined to townread Stormblade for this because Exped was my biggest scumlean early game as well. I want to hear reasons though, once you catch up.

Exped scumread increased from 67% to 69% (hehe 69!)

[rb]

Whoever the person that said the game isn't even Day 1, could you please outline how and why these pre-game interactions are apparently unimportant?

It may as well be called Day 1 with the way interactions are going.

I don't like this post because you don't specifically address anyone.

Silence mr.69% probability of being scum guy.

Got it now though, it was Cane + Able. Couldn't find the fucking post because of his grey text and I'm on phone so no search function.

@Cane + Maple Syrup: can you please explain why you're dismissing the validity of the content in pre-game?

[rb]

Is that fair shake like a fair shake of a sauce bottle or a fair shake of a salt shaker?

[rb]

But Luna is our FRIEND.

[rb]

Titus and Cane are giving me an aneurysm because everything they're doing is NAI.

[rb]

578 by Stormblade intensifies my town read of them. Reasoning makes sense, it's full of actual content and there's a 72% chance it's Town-motivated.

I don't understand how Luna is scummy. Exped's reasoning is shit. At this point her actions have been to direct the Town away from a pointless discussion and to ask clarifying questions of people. She's putting the town on a productive path and trying to figure the game out. My comment that "Luna is our FRIEND" had two-fold meaning:
1. to imply that she's my townread. I don't see how you'd be confused by that.
2. her signature actually says, "Everyone's your friend"

581 by exped is awful. Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense. Outright saying scummy things isn't excusable by "I'm tired "

Cephrir has similar reads to mine, but it's bugging me. I don't like 580 because even though I disagree with Exped, it's not just the fact he disagrees that make him feel scummy. Ceph is making less effort to understand Exped's POV than he is focussing on the fact that he apparently thinks Exped is just wrong. Town are wrong all the time. Scumreading people because you think they're wrong is dumb.

I can't stand 604 - as a general rule I zone out and can't be fucked dealing with meta and delving into other games. If someone wants to give a specific example from another game they can go and get it themselves. I'll still disregard it but it annoys me to no end to be told to go and look at another game. Explain your actions in THIS game without sending Town on a multi-game-interpretation circlejerk. Also the statement, "it's not important what my reasons are" is just setting Wayward up to make a whole bunch of shit reasons for reads and expect people to not question them. Sorry, not letting you do that.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

@MathBlade post 608 duly noted - but can you point out what you see to be a lack of content? As far as I'm concerned I'm sharing reads and pressing people on their opinions/thoughts, with the numbers for flavour. You seem to be implying that I'm just throwing out arbitrary numbers with no meaning - show me what you're talking about.

Following on from that, Ceph pointed that out in 623 - I'm wary of Ceph sheeping me here for the same sentiments I expressed about his post 580. He likes me just because we seem to agree - that's not a good reason to townread someone imo.

Post 629 is crap. I read this as having a lot of potential for sheeping on MathBlade's 608 - where am I sheeping? Show me. Planning ahead? Who doesn't? Are you saying that you don't read into the interactions and their context between people in the game and think about how they might play out? Surely if someone died right now and flipped scum, you'd have an idea of where that'd lead you next right? If I was doing full-blown scum-association crap and trying to pick the scum-team, I'd understand your skepticism. I don't understand it from this POV though because I'm clearly not playing the scum-association game.

Post 671 - Yes you've watched me play a game as Town and also as Scum. My first and second games ever. Being that it was about 2 months ago that I played my last Town game (this is my 4th game overall, 1 as Town, 2 as Scum) I've obviously changed quite a bit. Also you mention in this post that what I'm doing here is something you've not seen me do either as Town OR Scum - so what's with the scumread? Shouldn't it be NAI? Why don't you focus on the other stuff I'm posting instead?

Post 683 There's a 64% chance that Mastin has a crush on me and gives me special italics treatment in the Vote Count.

Post 688 What am I hiding? What's not clear to you? There's an 84% chance you're confused Town not understanding why I'm posting numbers.

735 I don't really understand what Exped doesn't understand about 590. He's asking you if you generally think players putting in a lack of effort into posts is a scumread in your opinion, because that's what you specifically mentioned not liking in 546...also wtf: did you just do the

exact same thing

in 751?

@Expedience in 747 you say you'd prefer to lurk. How come?

770 can we not have, "I'm tired " as a defence? I made a joke that I say less sig-worthy things when I'm not sleep-deprived, but I find it fully acceptable if people find things I say or do scummy when I'm sleepy and I see no reason why I'd be somehow "more scummy" just because I was tired. Motivation of figuring out game and helping town is still there.

771 is cute. I hereby

deny

so that you can tunnel me all game because this is scummy-af and the perfect cherry on top of your ice-cream sundae of, "I don't need to reason it doesn't matter!" if and when it's successful and I flip Town there's an 90% probability that you'll be next lynch and I'm perfectly okay with a 1-for-1 Town/Scum trade. Tunnel away baby. You're my highest scumread and I'd happily die if it means you get lynched next.

775 -

There's like 4 more pages now. Trying to catch up again. There's a 69% chance that I'll post in the next 30 minutes.

[rb]

Er, I put spoiler tags around that but it didn't spoiler. Sorry.

[rb]

@Expedience - In 818 you say Nahdia's case on you makes no sense. What about it makes no sense?

In 828 you say Salt Squad is being dumb. Why are they being dumb?

@Heartless - 868 are you reading Ceph as Null or are you reading Ceph as Town?

@No Retreat - Dave's honestly bypassed all my filters, can you briefly outline what you find scummy about him?

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rb one thing i dont understand is you spend a lot of time saying how exp's reads are fake yada yada yada, yet you end up voting wayward.

Unfortunately I'm not a double voter and I can't OMGUS them both at once

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I think I covered it at 885 as to how much I disliked their posts. I have more questions for Exped but Wayward is my strongest scumlean. Exped is unhelpful and not at all giving goos reasons for his thoughts.

Wayward is doing the same thing on top of throwing in meta reads (which I dislike) and also the fact that he calls it a pressure vote but then also insists they refuse to remove it if I don't do some specific thing is scummy af to me.

Pressure votes are what you do when someone isn't giving content, tunnel votes are what you do to your strong scumreads.

So why's he tunneling if it's just pressure?

Wayward = scum imo.

[rb]

Spelling, formatting, grammar and whatever other errors that makes sense is NOT AI. It should be apparent that they very well may be tired given the time of night it was for them.

I'm actually getting legit annoyed now.

You just repeated what I already fucking said: that I can understand if people have a lapse in spelling/formatting/grammar then that makes sense and isn't something to worry about. The point is that outright scummy things aren't excused by, "I'm tired." I literally fucking said word for word:

"Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense. Outright saying scummy things isn't excusable by "I'm tired "

Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense.

Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense.

And then the thing you come and attack me for is that I'm apparently taking spelling, formatting and grammar as being AI? Fuck off. If you actually turn out to be Town right now, I'm outright blacklisting you and refusing to play any further games with you because this is so fucking dumb that my brain literally hurts.

[rb]

I had a slight scum-lean on Expedience way back in post 187. Nahdia made a longer case though and with more information than I had.

I like to think that I'm the 100% OG of Expedience-scumreading in this game.

[rb]

@Expedience you're gonna have to explain why WT is painfully Town and also answer some of the questions I posed in 885

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@everyone who is calling Expedience Town: Wtf are you seeing in him that's Town?

He doesn't provide reasons for anything he does, he barely responds to questions, he doesn't do anything that I can even perceive as pro-town.

I need an adult to highlight a bunch of his posts and show me why they're town motivated. Explain it to me like I'm real dumb, I don't care - just show me how and why you could possibly read Exped as Town.

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How do we know if the Gladiate is real?

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@everyone who is calling Expedience Town: Wtf are you seeing in him that's Town?

He doesn't provide reasons for anything he does, he barely responds to questions, he doesn't do anything that I can even perceive as pro-town.

I need an adult to highlight a bunch of his posts and show me why they're town motivated. Explain it to me like I'm real dumb, I don't care - just show me how and why you could possibly read Exped as Town.

I can't respond to your essay and I don't see how that could be anything other than non-alignment-indicative.

Essay? Wtf there's like 5 sentences directed at you.

Then again all your content up to this point has been really lazy so not sure why I'm surprised.

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dave maybe scum.

I honestly had this same though. I would be curious of how you got at it. My way was kind of backwards and hard for people to follow but it may hold weight.

My meta reads are great.

A lot of people can't do meta reads.

Please don't try to stifle those of us that can.

Yes, but I dislike meta reads so much. They make me die inside a little bit.
(The on going catch up continues. I am watching the game topic at normal speed too)

This better not be LQ posting on the Hydra because the entire reason you said you were going to tunnel me was a meta reason

[rb]

rb did you have any response to my recent issues with you

Didn't see them sorry, which posts?

I actually tend to gloss over big quote-walls because I just end up reading all the same stuff over and over again. Some people prefer it but if you want my attention it's best to just say: @rb and then do a post number quote.

[rb]

Oh that? All you said was basically, "you're wrong". Was there a question or something worth responding to that I missed?

[rb]

wait maybe not

rb how many games have you played so far, how much are you experinced in this? have you ever see a gladiation ?

~Ice

I've played 3 open games.

1st as Town in a 13-player with 10town 3scum. Only PR was Town Cop.
2nd as Scum in 13-player 10town 3scum. Town Cop, Doctor and Mafia Roleblocker.
3rd as Scum in Matrix6, BP+Tracker.

First 2 were off-site, 3rd was here. Newbie 1716 - I replaced into Jordarrian's slot about halfway through Day 1 iirc.

[rb]

Oh that? All you said was basically, "you're wrong". Was there a question or something worth responding to that I missed?

lolk.

Actually there is something, now that I read my original post for context.

The chain goes:

Light scumread on RB right now for posting math instead of content.
Don't get me wrong I love numbers but this is bad.

If y'all want probability numbers I can fucking do that but that leads to a ton of gambler's fallacy and I would rather focus on scum hunting.

Ignore the numbers and you'll see there's content in those posts.

Right here you're giving MathBlade a contrary opinion after he gives me a light scumread. He's saying, "scumread for lack of content" and you're saying, "actually there IS content."
The implied point here being that you're

not

scumreading me - and since you didn't specify that it was actually a null-read, the impression I got is that it was a town-read.

So if I was wrong and you're not townreading me, I want to know if English is your first language because I feel like there's a language barrier here. And no that's not meant as an insult. If English is actually is your first language then please be more clear because I don't see it at all weird that I'd interpret your post as a townread.

Also if I'm null-read why are you bothering to defend me? Wouldn't you wait to see how I actually respond first? You're telling me you weren't sheeping and your response in 1032 made me think I was just wrong because of the way you dismissed it, but now I'm back to thinking you're potentially sheeping me.

[rb]

In mother Russia, post hate you.

(sorry couldn't resist)

[rb]

Right here you're giving MathBlade a contrary opinion after he gives me a light scumread. He's saying, "scumread for lack of content" and you're saying, "actually there IS content."
The implied point here being that you're not scumreading me - and since you didn't specify that it was actually a null-read, the impression I got is that it was a town-read.

I was pointing out that her premise was incorrect

I shoot down shitty arguments because they're shitty. It upsets me when people say and do things I percieve as dumb or wrong.

Could have just started with that, yo.

Not sure I'll believe you until I see you shoot yourself though

[rb]

There's a 69% chance you're caught between figuring out whether you're mad at me or just think I'm dumb.

[rb]

Anyway your motivation for shooting down MathBlade makes sense. Looking at your ISO you did the same thing earlier in the game to someone else so I'm inclined to believe that the thing that I thought was potentially scummy is actually NAI.

[rb]

@Luna

Not that it's an excuse but I'm pretty inexperienced in comparison to most people here, so if I misuse terms or because I've misunderstood them I don't have a problem with being told so. I generally read between the lines when people make posts and if people don't explicitly make their point clear I'm probably going to just go with whatever I find to be the simplest explanation. I still think that Ceph should have clarified what his actual read of me was and don't like his wording, but I'm not really suspect of his motivations at this point. His outburst makes me want to townlean though.

[rb]

salt and others who are still strongly pushing other things

do you think almost50 is scum

I'd say yes but I hate "read lists" in general so I'm probably biased.

[rb]

There's an 81% chance that davesaz feels a mixture of both disappointment and relief when he finds out there's not another 10 pages.

[rb]

Off to bed now. Night everyone.

[rb]

This is mainly so that I express my paranoia of certain town reads I have before it comes up later and I flail around a bunch about how they are freaking the beejesus out of me.

This is overexplanatory and describing your own thought process unprompted is a scumtell.

[rb]

I townread Stormblade because of Nahdia, but ABR and Errant's lack of participation makes me wonder.

What if they've decided that Nahdia's doing such a great job they'll just stay out of her way for now? As one of the most townread slots right now their input seems pretty important to the game but they're both opting to take a backseat. I don't like it.

[rb]

I townread Stormblade because of Nahdia, but ABR and Errant's lack of participation makes me wonder.

What if they've decided that Nahdia's doing such a great job they'll just stay out of her way for now? As one of the most townread slots right now their input seems pretty important to the game but they're both opting to take a backseat. I don't like it.

This.

So much this.

nope errant last participation happened before nahdia coming out and as he said I want him to back his reads up. There is hydra conflict reads between what they represents so they won't feel that way obviously about each other

and no ABR's town game is not like that

even a single bit to stand down

Ever

~Ice

So what you're saying is that I'm wrong?

Sorry, having trouble deciphering your post. In any case I want to hear more people's thoughts on what I said.

[rb]

I meant that both Errant + ABR have just now declared their intent to wait until later. I didn't mean that they decided pre/early-game to get out of her way, I meant that I don't like how 2/3 of Stormblade's heads are taking a backseat role when their slot is being townread so heavily.

You seemed to think I meant they pre-decided this early game or something? I feel really dumb atm because I think I'm missing something really obvious.

[rb]

I meant that both Errant + ABR have just now declared their intent to wait until later. I didn't mean that they decided pre/early-game to get out of her way, I meant that I don't like how 2/3 of Stormblade's heads are taking a backseat role when their slot is being townread so heavily.

You seemed to think I meant they pre-decided this early game or something? I feel really dumb atm because I think I'm missing something really obvious.

this post directed @SongFireIceHydra

[rb]

@IceFire

Oh okay you don't like C+A's acceptance of my thought. Fair enough. I don't know what to think because he's null-read for me. Are you scumreading C+A?

I don't like that C+A was invalidating the value of early game before. Like he just accepts A50's shitty read list because, "it's early so it's expected". Game has to get somewhere somehow, and you can't get out of early-game unless people start to take early-game seriously. I don't see it as a scumtell because the slot is still pushing reads and poking around for information, but I don't townread it either.

[rb]

I meant that both Errant + ABR have just now declared their intent to wait until later. I didn't mean that they decided pre/early-game to get out of her way, I meant that I don't like how 2/3 of Stormblade's heads are taking a backseat role when their slot is being townread so heavily.

This is, and always will be, the issue with all Hydras, not just isolated to this particular case.

Don't necessarily relate this to it being a Hydra. Imo it's important that people who are strong townreads in the eyes of many people actually remain active. That I don't like ABR + Errant taking a backseat on a heavy townread slot doesn't have much to do with it being a Hydra.

[rb]

@IceFire

Oh okay you don't like C+A's acceptance of my thought. Fair enough. I don't know what to think because he's null-read for me. Are you scumreading C+A?

I don't like that C+A was invalidating the value of early game before. Like he just accepts A50's shitty read list because, "it's early so it's expected". Game has to get somewhere somehow, and you can't get out of early-game unless people start to take early-game seriously. I don't see it as a scumtell because the slot is still pushing reads and poking around for information, but I don't townread it either.

Early game is shit for information.

That is not a subjective statement. It is not open to interpretation or varying perspectives. It is fact.

So no, I'm not going to get all up in somebody's shit because they have shit reads, nor should anybody else unless they're certain they have the scum team pegged.

Let he who is without sin tie the first noose, yo.

It's important for re-reads once a few people have flipped though. People pushing/retaliating and stuff is shit for information when you have nothing solid (pre-flip) but it's useful post-flip.

Do you disagree?

[rb]

That I don't like ABR + Errant taking a backseat on a heavy townread slot doesn't have much to do with it being a Hydra.

Sure it does. It's townread due to Nahdia, not the other two, so despite dislike of the actions regarding ABR and errant, the slot likely won't have any trouble keeping away from a lynch because people will be hesitant to the townposting on Nahdia's part.

All you've done is voiced your dislike, but unless you put action to your words, you're more or less fine with the way it's going as well and will continue to let ABR and errant do their thing.

Why would I vote a slot I currently townread?

[rb]

@Dramonic: am I incorrect in saying that your read of Exped as Town is that he's 2dumb4scum? But why is he terrible town as opposed to terrible scum?

@Exped + Wayward: why are you buddying each other so hard? How could your townreads of each other be THAT strong?

Does anyone else feel like at least one of these slots has to be scum?

[rb]

Titus is grilling Ice and Fire for posting too much but is seemingly unhappy with MathBlades' level of activity?

????????

[rb]

I really wanna believe Dram is town right now. If you're scum I'll never 5give you.

[rb]

Everyone pls stfu about wincons and factions.

p-edit: ok Titus that's different.

[rb]

I actually like MathBlade's explanation of his approach. If he follows through and consistently plays by the example he's setting then I don't see a problem with it.

p-edit: I've actually forgotten exactly what Titus was telling you to do, re-reading now.

[rb]

Shit sorry Math. I'm terrible with this pronoun stuff.

@Math, There are reasons. You're just ignoring them. Kuroi has terribad survivalistic posting and you're not even engaging that. You haven't engaged Cane and Able. Cane and Able seems awfully interested I splitting hairs on kuroi's behalf. There's yellow monkeys and purple flying monsters you're ignoring. You've also ignored A50, and Heartless, and Dram, and Cephrir.

Okay on re-reading titus I again don't like this and her explanation that she's finding MathBlade anti-town doesn't sit with me.

Lists 5 people that MathBlade isn't engaging. There's probably 10 people (more) I haven't engaged, why not throw that at me? Or anyone else who hasn't engaged 5 or more people? I haven't spoken to Kuroi either, why not come at me? Why is Math's lack of engagement more significant than anyone else's?

What thing are you seeing Titus that makes Math more important, because your response to me implies that it's more than just his lack of engagement of others but you're not showing that. Show that.

[rb]

@Exped + Wayward: why are you buddying each other so hard? How could your townreads of each other be THAT strong?

I'm townreading him kind of strongly I guess. You can't ask "why are you buddying him", because that implies that i'm scum.

You're right, it does imply that you're scum. I'm not sorry.

This is going to sound bad because I can see you're seeing us as partners or something, because this is honestly similar to what I would say if I was scum with him, but I was actually just trying to look at LicketyQuickety's meta earlier today in search of some certainty because he seemed like the type of player with a strange style. And I came to the conclusion that the majority of the things he did that you might notice from reading his posts were NAI but he was more awkward, less confident, less pushy as scum. And some of the posts like 771 (bottom of the post) and 1434 seem especially town.

I'm seeing one of you as scum. If you're both Town my head will probably explode. One of you is buddying the other.

Also the certainty with which you speak of your townread doesn't just sound like you plunged some of his meta, because that's not what would give you this absurdly strong town-read. Doesn't make sense.

[rb]

@RB, Are you crowing you have 3-4 scumreads while ignoring major events? Nope. It's not an obligation for every player to interact with everyone else. Selective reading/pushing is Antitown or scummy. This is our first interaction I believe because the percentage quirk thing is a personality tell. Ignoring half the game to tunnel is NOT a personality tell.

Need to think about this tbh, I don't really know how I'm 'not-ignoring' major events moreso than MathBlade. Their reasoning seems legit to me, and I know I've talked to another player who's pretty damn good (DarthPunk from TLmafia) and his opinion is that Town players should just always focus on their top scumread until either they start to lose the read because the player improves their town-play or someone else becomes scummier. Maybe he's wrong, maybe I'm wrong and maybe MathBlade is wrong but I don't see a problem with their approach so far.

In any case I null-read them because I want to see if they actually live up to their stated intentions. So carry on pressuring I guess.

[rb]

@Exped + Wayward: why are you buddying each other so hard? How could your townreads of each other be THAT strong?

I'm townreading him kind of strongly I guess. You can't ask "why are you buddying him", because that implies that i'm scum.

You're right, it does imply that you're scum. I'm not sorry.

This is going to sound bad because I can see you're seeing us as partners or something, because this is honestly similar to what I would say if I was scum with him, but I was actually just trying to look at LicketyQuickety's meta earlier today in search of some certainty because he seemed like the type of player with a strange style. And I came to the conclusion that the majority of the things he did that you might notice from reading his posts were NAI but he was more awkward, less confident, less pushy as scum. And some of the posts like 771 (bottom of the post) and 1434 seem especially town.

I'm seeing one of you as scum. If you're both Town my head will probably explode. One of you is buddying the other.

Also the certainty with which you speak of your townread doesn't just sound like you plunged some of his meta, because that's not what would give you this absurdly strong town-read. Doesn't make sense.

It's not absurdly strong and I don't know where you got that idea from. I said that I tried to search for more certainty.

You just said that you're townreading him strongly? Okay, kind of strong.

Plus you defend him in 55 and then went and painted IceFire Hydra as being scummy for disliking his play. You also joined his wagon on me. Then a little later he read you strongly as town and defended you as well.

So yeah, I don't necessarily think that you're scum partners but the interactions between the two of you are scummy af. At least one of you is full of shit.

[rb]

rb, it's actually much more indicative of Wayward Thinker being the same alignment as me because if he's scum it doesn't make sense to townread his counterwagon unless I am also scum (which I'm not).

what does this even mean?

~Ice

It means in a scenario whether it's currently him or Expedience, WT could have jumped on Exp no problem. The fact WT did not suggests town. Or that they are buddies.

Are you just explaining his point or actually agreeing with it?

[rb]

Lol, the fuck?

So why ARE you townreading him then.

[rb]

I'm not townreading WT for it. It was just a counterpoint to what rb said. Not exactly what Cephrir said but close enough.

I'm denying it because it isn't true and a miscommunication but you seem to think that I'm hiding something.

So what are you townreading WT for? You just keep saying I'm wrong, but you already admitted you have a 'kind of strong' townread on WT but you don't say why.

If I'm wrong about the reason you're townreading him, then give me the proper reason you're townreading him.

[rb]

FUCK

tbh

[rb]

Don't have much time but I've caught up with the last 10 pages or so.

@LadyLambaDelta / LLD: I think you should read the ISO's of Wayward Thinker, Dramonic, Kuroi, Stormblade and Luna Fox. Or at least skim-read them. A lot of the interactions in this game have centered around them. I did a breakdown of what I thought were my most relevant points of the game so far in post 885.

Other stuff:
I hope Dramonic is town and not scum. I feel like he's town and I also agree with majority of his points and reads. If he's scum that sucks.

I like Mathblade's approach. I don't like their vote on Expedience over Wayward though. It doesn't seem consistent with their reasoning so far, but I might be missing something. @MathBlade: why vote Expedience over Wayward?

I'm still convinced that one of Expedience/Wayward are scum. Their interactions as I've already outlined just reek of scum.

The Kuroi wagon is shit. It occurs to me that multiple people on the Wayward wagon are jumping off it. I want to know why Kuroi is more scummy than Wayward. So far I haven't seen much from anyone to indicate

WHY

they actually think Wayward is town. That coupled with the fact that this Kuroi wagon would be so easy to jump on disturbs me. I feel like Kuroi's a counter-wagon.

It disturbs me also that Titus actually LIKES the Kuroi wagon. Actually, more on Titus:
In 1375 she refers to a Kuroi wagon as a "policy compromise"
But then in 1435 she says she's finally glad to have a good wagon to join? What am I missing here?

She calls Kuroi opportunistic but to me the Kuroi wagon seems the most obviously opportunistic wagon in the game at the moment and Titus is on it. Not adding up for me. @Titus: why do you like the Kuroi wagon?

[rb]

Well there's guaranteed to be scum, cult and human. We don't know if there's a 4th, but you seem pretty sure about it - why?

[rb]

From Mastin's wording the only thing we can be sure of is that there's at least one scum faction - but I'm sure that's the wording that would be used regardless of the number of factions. It could mean there's 3 or 6, I don't see how we could ascertain if there's more or not without direct role claims which please for the love of dog no.

Anyway can we stfu about this faction stuff? It seems so irrelevant pre-flip. Correct me if I'm wrong.

@No Retreat do you have any input that might help us figure the game out? I'm deliberately ignoring factional stuff because I'm pretty sure no one else is going to let it slip at this stage anyway so why focus on it? And if they are going to let it slip I don't think it'll make much difference whether or not we're talking about it or if the slip will even help us figure this out. Again correct me if I'm wrong.

[rb]

So RAM since you're scumreading me could you be nice enough to tell me which of your scumbuddies you're defending?

[rb]

Can we just fast-track this to the part where you tell me your scumbuddies?

[rb]

Hey @RAM, are you going to make a case any further than "rb though..." because if not stfu and do something useful.

[rb]

Hey @RAM, are you going to make a case any further than "rb though..." because if not stfu and do something useful.

lmfao

1) cases are so not my style it's all about calling out BS and vibe in the moment. that's pretty much the reason drixx and cerb wanted to hydra with me.
2) jesus i normally townread defensiveness but this is unnatural. i haven't even PUSHED you yet (i've literally just said "rb tho..." and youre right, haven't given reasons), but you're acting like this? why?? i have literally posed no threat to you AT ALL except for saying my read on you. yet this. what?!

~ Bins

So where's the posts containing the BS and "vibe" that you saw?

Did you want my starsign next, will that help you determine which "vibe" I should be giving off?

[rb]

Oh and also, if you read my ISO you'll see that I play the game by pushing people to give reasons and provide examples of what they're talking about as opposed to just giving naked reads. So no, this isn't "defensiveness".

In wayb4 "saying you're not defensive is defensive!"

[rb]

Oh and also, if you read my ISO you'll see that I play the game by pushing people to give reasons and provide examples of what they're talking about as opposed to just giving naked reads. So no, this isn't "defensiveness".

In wayb4 "saying you're not defensive is defensive!"

My point here being: my reaction is like this because your content's shit. I don't care if you write a gigantic wall of text and do your absolute best to build a case against me. Quote every single post I've ever made and give reasons, I really don't care because at least you're putting some kind of effort in. So far all of your townreads and scumreads are pretty much unexplained and, just like with WT: I don't give a free pass to people neglecting to post reasons for things because it's what scum do.

"Vibes" is just shit. Give a reason or an example. Any example.

[rb]

Actually you know what, do it. Switch to me. Get off copper and switch to me right now and do your best to frame me as scum. Gogogo.

[rb]

Actually you know what, do it. Switch to me. Get off copper and switch to me right now and do your best to frame me as scum. Gogogo.

They can't do it this post is just too town

jesus no this post is the opposite of town i would actually switch to them if the copper wagon wasn't starting

how is this reaction town at all? it's fake as fuck

my case on rb wasn't that strong that's why i picked copper instead but this reaction is honestly making it 169% worse for you

negging or whatever the fuck this is is not a town response
it's what scum do to make it seem like they aren't afraid
but clearly rb has some sort of problem with keeping his cool

Actually you know what, do it. Switch to me. Get off copper and switch to me right now and do your best to frame me as scum. Gogogo.

Did some rival cowboy shoot you in the butt last night?

Why so drama heavy now?

^ ty

~ bins

See RAM? You CAN do it!

You just looked at a post of mine and made an assessment of it. You didn't refer back to some pathetic concept of "vibes" - you took a post I made, and you actually made salient points about it.

Keep going please.

[rb]

What people call "overdefensivenes" is usually a towntell.

omg

expe

read my posts dont you just
DO IT
FOR ONCE THIS GAME

i literally said overdefensiveness is normally a towntell to me


but the thing is i didnt even PUSH rb
i just poked his name
and yet he's doing the fake "vote me then i AINT SCARED" bs

See, you're getting better! You're actually playing the game now and doing something of worth for a change. I'm not sure why you dislike me when I'm helping you. There's a reason you were stuck right down in the scumdumpster section of DGB's scum list, this is your chance to actually get out.

Try and lynch me.

[rb]

Omg no don't pussy out now RAM, this was just getting good.

[rb]

like idk how it wasn't clear to you that from my vote, the amount of times i mentioned it

that copper is my strongest scumread and i have hated every post from him

and then you get all super defensive

don't you think it'd be
you know
super antitown to ask me to vote you and to stray away from who i really really think is scum here? you can't seriously be being geniune right now?

Quite simply the way you dislike kuroi's wagon doesn't make sense to me tbh. We agree that it's a bad wagon, but it's not about whether or not we agree. I don't play like that, I've said as much already. Plus the wagons you're happy with include:

LLD - holy shit nice opportunism
myself - I'm town, so that's an even shittier wagon than kuroi
Copper - tbh he's barely registering on my filters and he seems like an

even easier

lynch than kuroi at this point, again opportunistic

Plus you're townreading people I scumread for reasons that don't make sense to me.

From my POV your entire game so far is opportunistic and anti-town. The fact that you're seemingly incapable of providing even basic reasons for my scumminess outside of, "lol you're defensive" and "you're omgus'ing me!" when I'm doing neither of those two things just screams scum to me.

[rb]

Oh sorry, to your credit you also said my "vibe" was bad.

[rb]

Fuck it.

OMG RAM, YOU SUCK!

VOTE: RAM

[rb]

Please tunnel me back <3

[rb]

Luna my good friend, join me on the RAM wagon please.

[rb]

RAM agreed with NBG's read list which included Klingon as strong town.

[rb]

RAM agreed with NBG's read list which included Klingon as strong town.

also how the fuck
is saying both Kuroi and WT are town
and then going for copper, you and LLD opportunistic?!

how can you call copper lynchbait and seriously how is LLD an opportunistic vote!?

what?!

you're making less sense than expe

Because I see no reasoning as to why you' see both Kuroi and WT as town. You're not providing reasons. Scum looking for towncred imo.

Also the main targets for your own wagon are people who'd be easy targets in their own right. Opportunistic.

[rb]

@RAM

Cool. So let's get this straight.

When RAM says:

"I strongly townread X person"

RAM actually means:

"I don't see the reasoning for why X person is scum"

?

And you wonder why I have trouble interpreting your posts

[rb]

Oh... that's what i get for not reading every single post in detail after waking up.

Vote: Kuroi

rb why you deceive me.

Tbh didn't even read that part

[rb]

Okay RAM, so looking at the last Vote Count it looks like the majority of Kuroi's wagon is made up of people you null/scum read. Wayward's has me on it and you think I'm probably scum. Makes sense I guess.

@everyone: Am I wrong in thinking that Copper/LLD/myself were moderately on multiple people's scumdar's though? The thing that bugs me is that RAM quotes a big read list and goes, "I like this" and then calls for a new wagon. Doesn't strike me as independent thought. Also so that you're aware RAM, people not giving reasoning is something I HATE a lot and when people offer naked reads of any kind I really don't like it.

The only reason I'm not ploughing into DGB is because she doesn't seem to be pushing any agenda on the basis of unreasoned reads so I don't really see it as scummy.

[rb]

@RAM

Cool. So let's get this straight.

When RAM says:

"I strongly townread X person"

RAM actually means:

"I don't see the reasoning for why X person is scum"

?

And you wonder why I have trouble interpreting your posts

when did i ever say i strongly townread either WT or kuroi.........


i have a mild VERY null mild townread on both of them
enough that i'm uncomfortable with their lynches

kuroi i also have a problem with his wagon which i have explained
WT i have already explained why i dont see them as scum like most people do




titus idk he hasn't said anything in PT

Okay but most people aren't seeing WT as scum as far as I can tell. I keep hearing people tell me he's Town but I can never get a decent reason out of them. So why is he NOT scum then, in your opinion because I honestly don't feel like the general consensus is that WT is scum and I'm tired of being told he's not scum without good reasons. His wagon also pretty much evaporated and went onto Kuroi which is why I'm townreading Kuroi and intensifying in scumread of WT.

[rb]

Believe me. I get you're frustrated.

It's even more than frustrated.
As he already claimed, we're on the neighborhood which means that
A) He's scum
or
B) He's the same race as me.

And i shouldnt need to get into why he being B and getting lynched scares the heck outta me.

Wait, who claimed that?

[rb]

UNVOTE: RAM as well since I obviously misread that quote wall and when I look at their stated scum + townreads and the vote count, both the wagons do look bad from the perspective of their reads.

[rb]

copper did

So now Stormblade/Copper/Luna have all claimed to be part of the same neighbourhood.

aJJDsakd akd laSdk

[rb]

Fucking hell. I'm reading Kuroi's ISO again to see if I can independently understand why he is scummy like everyone else apparently does.

[rb]

I don't see where Kuroi is scum. He joined the game and started getting attacked for some vote he made which wasn't even a bad vote from what I see, and he's trying to get people to stop sheeping and play the game for themselves. Are these bad things now? What am I missing here?

Kuroi still looks like the counterwagon to Wayward.

VOTE: Vote: Wayward Thinker

[rb]

LOL wtf no idea how I did that.

[rb]

Fucking hell. I'm reading Kuroi's ISO again to see if I can independently understand why he is scummy like everyone else apparently does.

Please let me know if you find something, but I've got nothing.

Didnt I literally just do this?

Amazingly, I like to read things and reach conclusions for myself. Don't you?

Plus your posts in 1988, 1990 and 1991 don't tell me much when you don't link to the actual post Kuroi was making, so I'd still have to go and check his ISO to understand what you mean regardless.

[rb]

@TWIE:

Wayward earlier in the game voted someone for sheeping, then when Kuroi voted someone for sheeping they ask Kuroi, "what's wrong with sheeping"

Among other things how is that wall by Wayward not terrible? What's in that Wayward wall that's good?

[rb]

Luna, what do YOU think he is?

[rb]

Yep and this is exactly what I mean when I keep saying that Kuroi looks like a counter-wagon.

No one ever fucking talks or gives good reasons as to why they think Wayward is town and/or not scum, and they're picking the easiest target who was against Wayward for shitty reasons.

[rb]

Yep and this is exactly what I mean when I keep saying that Kuroi looks like a counter-wagon.

No one ever fucking talks or gives good reasons as to why they think Wayward is town and/or not scum, and they're picking the easiest target who was against Wayward for shitty reasons.

Ugh, badly worded. Meaning that the reasons against Kuroi are shitty, not Kuroi's reasons. That wall by Wayward is terrible.

[rb]

Yep and this is exactly what I mean when I keep saying that Kuroi looks like a counter-wagon.

No one ever fucking talks or gives good reasons as to why they think Wayward is town and/or not scum, and they're picking the easiest target who was against Wayward for shitty reasons.

Ugh, badly worded. Meaning that the reasons against Kuroi are shitty, not Kuroi's reasons. That wall by Wayward is terrible.

im not sure how much clearer i could have been earlier.

the wayward wall literally doesnt matter.

like at all.

i dont even know whats in it because i didnt read it.

Like, wow.

So there's two wagons, one is Kuroi and the other is Wayward and you just somehow decide that you're going to go with Kuroi, without even reading Wayward?

Can you explain the town-motivated logic behind not actually reading about the players who're the two biggest wagons in the game?

[rb]

Yep and this is exactly what I mean when I keep saying that Kuroi looks like a counter-wagon.

No one ever fucking talks or gives good reasons as to why they think Wayward is town and/or not scum, and they're picking the easiest target who was against Wayward for shitty reasons.

Ugh, badly worded. Meaning that the reasons against Kuroi are shitty, not Kuroi's reasons. That wall by Wayward is terrible.

im not sure how much clearer i could have been earlier.

the wayward wall literally doesnt matter.

like at all.

i dont even know whats in it because i didnt read it.

Like, wow.

So there's two wagons, one is Kuroi and the other is Wayward and you just somehow decide that you're going to go with Kuroi, without even reading Wayward?

Can you explain the town-motivated logic behind not actually reading about the players who're the two biggest wagons in the game?

my vote isnt even on kuroi but please panic more.

im answering your question about what whats in kurois iso that everyone doesnt like because i just went through it because i was asked for a kuroi read.

You're actually not answering my question since I want to know why Wayward is a town read.

Asking questions = panicking

In any case, should I not be concerned when I feel like we're about to mislynch a counter-wagon and that my top scumread is being completely ignored by majority of the game, despite being the 2nd largest wagon?

[rb]

Okay so I suppose in conclusion I'm not voting Kuroi because his wagon is terrible and the case against him doesn't have reasoning I can work with. But he doesn't give me a strong townread either so I cbf defending him.

[rb]

The Kuroi wagon is shit. It occurs to me that multiple people on the Wayward wagon are jumping off it. I want to know why Kuroi is more scummy than Wayward. So far I haven't seen much from anyone to indicate

WHY

they actually think Wayward is town. That coupled with the fact that this Kuroi wagon would be so easy to jump on disturbs me. I feel like Kuroi's a counter-wagon.

why are these mutually exclusive? I'm scumreading both.

Yeah I don't think you're one of the people I'm referring to.

I have problems with people scumreading Kuroi while townreading WT, giving poor reasons for both reads.

[rb]

Lawd, that's what I get for posting at 4am

[rb]

Good night, vote Wayward. Thanks.

[rb]

You talk to me disrespectfully again, I replace ask mod to sort you out.

What is this even.

[rb]

@TWIE:

Wayward earlier in the game voted someone for sheeping, then when Kuroi voted someone for sheeping they ask Kuroi, "what's wrong with sheeping"

Among other things how is that wall by Wayward not terrible? What's in that Wayward wall that's good?

I did? I voted someone for sheeping? Can you point this out because I have no recollection of this.

My point is that Kuroi isn't doing a damn thing to solve the game and is just content to make shit posts.

In post 629 you cited one of your reasons for your vote on me as being my, "general sheeping of opinions".

Then when Kuroi calls someone out for a potential sheep you go ahead and ask him, "what's wrong with sheeping?".

[rb]

Oh that was Suz, but that doesn't really change how bad it is.

[rb]

I feel like all the faction talk is pointless until we see flips tbh. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the essential thing that we want to ascertain on Day1 is whether or not the person we're lynching is scum. Yes? No?

[rb]

What we need to ascertain is wether the person we're lynching is WT or not. Wether he's scum isn't in question.

It's comments like this that make me really want Dram to be town. Please Dram don't be scum Dram.

[rb]

What we need to ascertain is wether the person we're lynching is WT or not. Wether he's scum isn't in question.

It's comments like this that make me really want Dram to be town. Please Dram don't be scum Dram.

Baby stay with me, we'll ride into the sunset on matching horses.

But you can't ever reach the sunset because the horizon never gets any closer

[rb]

Which one's the cult faction?

Because Toog is now in that faction.

[rb]

Good point actually.

[rb]

Feel like this is a good time to post this:

[rb]

Almost 20% of the players in this game have role-claimed.

On Day 1.

Dram please save me.

[rb]

Please for the love of whatever the fuck everyone loves, can we stop discussing roles and scum strategy?

Like please? Pretty please? With cherries on top?

[rb]

I'm close to revealing my flavor details for the sake of interest. None of it has bearing on alignment, and if anything players will change a bit in revelation of the news.

LOL

[rb]

Unfortunately that's pretty subjective.

Stop trying to be a mafia purist and understand that different mentalities play this game. Town needs info, it craves it, and that info not only comes from reads, but from gaining insight as to overall setup picture as well, which in this particular game screams as a necessity. One claim from a not so important role isn't going to be the nail in the coffin. I didn't claim cop or doctor, hell I didn't claim anything other than flavor.

Yes but it's also reasonable to assume in a game setup like this that there will be multiple flips at night and then we can claim, without making the game easier for cult/scum factions on Day 1.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[rb]

I used psychology to prove why she is most likely scum?

I actually feel bad that I was townreading Kuroi because of the nature of his wagon.

[rb]

Shut up dram.
I feel like his frustration is genuine.

So do I, but I still think he's scum.

[rb]

Also Kuroi is being at least 350% more obnoxious than WT right now, which I can prove with psychology.

[rb]

I don't even know what VI means.

[rb]

I don't really remember you or Molla getting into it with her but also someone remind me how to do the post link thing.

Just type the post number and put post tags around it.

2000 - random example.

[rb]

Tbh people talking about Kuroi as Vig target just seems off to me. Don't know exactly why, I think because it occurs to me that that's actually a dumb vig target?

Why would vig use a shot on someome who is easily lynchable. Seems to me like the power of vig is being able to remove people who're potential scum but it's hard to gain voting traction on: we're never going to struggle to lynch Kuroi at this rate.

[rb]

Don't have time to read all this before I go but we have more than 10 days. Vote Titus please while I am away. I hope to come back to a Titus lynch

How come your read on WT has changed? Do you think Titus is more likely scum than Kuroi?

[rb]

You'll do a lot of mislynches if you keep thinking that only scum wont act townie in your standards then.
There are more ways to be town, than just not making shit cases or bad reads.
Heck, if anything town's more prone to being stupid than scum.

nah by keeping myself paranoid enough I won't let someone get credit for what they didn't done / deserve , keeping my eyes open to further slips if their scum.

I won't call not scummy town and I won't particpate in any not sorted weird townblock and won't approve any weird moonlogicy townreads. ever

~Ice

If you want logic
Why does Scum!WT Vote Klingy and keep pushing for her lynch instead of Kuroi?
He's obviously not playing for survival.

I don't see how that's alignment indicative.

[rb]

rb you never commented about anything I've said in this game or anything about my slot that I can recall of

why is that ? whats your read on me ? and what do you think about my recent detailed posts about kuroi / WT ?

~Ice

Which detailed posts do you want me to look at? I've read most of them and nothing you do really screams scum or town to me but overall I'd say I'm reading you as null-scum. Tbh if WT flipped Town and Kuroi flipped scum I'd be picking you as scum and that these posts are just looking for towncred, since your case on Kuroi is just repeating what's already been said 27 times per page and I'm not giving anyone town-points for doing that at this stage of the game, and the townread on WT is just the same shit Luna's saying - but feel free to correct me.

So without any flips and VCA I'm not sure which way I'd lean on you but if I had a gun to my head it'd be null-scum.

I don't feel like there's much strength in what you're saying nor do I see much evidence that you're putting out original content. There's a lot of slots I still haven't interacted with so far because as I mentioned in 1792 I'm pretty certain that we've found at least one scum in WT/Expedience because their interactions are just scum all over. On top of that I think Kuroi isn't a bad choice either. I initially was frustrated because I felt like Kuroi was just a counter-wagon and I didn't think his play had so far been scummy enough to warrant such a huge wagon, but his response since being pressured has been absolutely terrible.

So there's 3 lynches that I'm happy with, this thread has reached to almost page 150. Even if it's Day 1, it's not a normal Day 1. I feel like there's more than enough interactions to do a good VCA and get a lot of information from Night 1 flips.

But if people specifically want my opinions on something, I'm happy to give.

[rb]

Pretty big scumread on RAM. Their votes in particular leave a bad taste in my mouth. Cerb head doesn't feel at all like the person I just played with in Bloodborne.

-Nahdia

Are you still scum-reading both WT + Expedience?

[rb]

I don't see how that's alignment indicative.

"Everyone stop unvoting WT!"

Yeah, I dislike it when people don't vote my biggest scumread. Don't you?

I get you're trying to mock me here but that was just dumb.

[rb]

Pretty big scumread on RAM. Their votes in particular leave a bad taste in my mouth. Cerb head doesn't feel at all like the person I just played with in Bloodborne.

-Nahdia

Are you still scum-reading both WT + Expedience?

Expedience yes (though admittedly I haven't revisited that in awhile?), WT I think I've always had as more of a null?

I've been a bit more focused on finding town than scum today, just because I find that easier to parse. Off the top of my head, people I've decided are town so far are...
Kuroi
Klingoncelt
Salt Squad
A Song of Ice and Fire
LLD
Luna

@Stormblade, why are you not voting WT or Kuroi?

I don't have scumreads on either? >_>

-Nahdia

Why're you townreading Ice/Fire? Or more importantly, Kuroi?

Luna I get, Salt Squad and LLD I get too. Klingon's null for me.

[rb]

So there's 3 lynches that I'm happy with, this thread has reached to almost page 150. Even if it's Day 1, it's not a normal Day 1. I feel like there's more than enough interactions to do a good VCA and get a lot of information from Night 1 flips.

VCA is pure shit

just saying

~Ice

I don't think so, if it's done right.

I'd say that outright considering VCA pure shit, is pure shit.

[rb]

rb you never commented about anything I've said in this game or anything about my slot that I can recall of

why is that ? whats your read on me ? and what do you think about my recent detailed posts about kuroi / WT ?

~Ice

Which detailed posts do you want me to look at? I've read most of them and nothing you do really screams scum or town to me but overall I'd say I'm reading you as null-scum. Tbh if WT flipped Town and Kuroi flipped scum I'd be picking you as scum and that these posts are just looking for towncred, since your case on Kuroi is just repeating what's already been said 27 times per page and I'm not giving anyone town-points for doing that at this stage of the game, and the townread on WT is just the same shit Luna's saying - but feel free to correct me.

So without any flips and VCA I'm not sure which way I'd lean on you but if I had a gun to my head it'd be null-scum.

I don't feel like there's much strength in what you're saying nor do I see much evidence that you're putting out original content. There's a lot of slots I still haven't interacted with so far because as I mentioned in 1792 I'm pretty certain that we've found at least one scum in WT/Expedience because their interactions are just scum all over. On top of that I think Kuroi isn't a bad choice either. I initially was frustrated because I felt like Kuroi was just a counter-wagon and I didn't think his play had so far been scummy enough to warrant such a huge wagon, but his response since being pressured has been absolutely terrible.

first I was vla for about 48 hours and I did skimming and isolated reads not reading in full detail cuase that's pure impossible. so what I said about WT was not a definite replica of Luna post at all.

you can't siriously miss what I said about kuroi and the meta dive on WT in 2 or 3 pages ago. and no I didn't repeat what everyone where saying about kuroi. wtf?

please read and comment.

and I want to know what do you mean about not giving out real content cause that seems like a huge discredit even though I can see someone missing following my interactions in this huge game.

and I don't like your pre flip accusation at all. why is him being scum is making me look scummy? cause this looks like you know he will flip scum and wanna bring me down with him ... ?

~Ice

It's not that I didn't see it, I didn't see anything

in

it that indicates whether you're town or scum. I don't really care what your read of Kuroi is, because there's already so much information on him anyway. So like I said, if you have any posts you want me to look at I'm more than happy to do so.

Real content meaning original and/or indicating that you're genuinely trying to solve the game.

It's not a pre-flip accusation really. I already said I'm reading you as null-scum and that if Kuroi flipped scum and WT flipped town (implying that there's two things going on here) then that combo would support the reasons that I'm finding you scummy, since your case on Kuroi isn't special and is partly OMGUS since he's been scum-reading you and you've been getting pretty damn defensive over it, despite the fact multiple people discredited his case. You're awfully touchy for being accused by someone who nearly everyone thinks is an idiot scum - there's no chance people will lynch you over Kuroi, yet you're fired up as if you're about to die.

Oh and new thought: maybe you know Kuroi will flip town and that does make you look pretty bad I guess. Maybe. I don't know how seriously I'd take the opinions of either scum OR town Kuroi at this point. Even if his motivations weren't in question, he's probably still wrong about stuff. Which yeah, makes you look pretty bad for firing up over the opinions coming from a slot that no one gives a shit about.

I admit I could just be confbiasing here but you asked what my read of you was, and I explained it.

[rb]

wow i must be pure shit then

i guess ive learned nothing playing mafia for 10 years!

You said it not me.

[rb]

I'd be willing to bet that people who're saying VCA is pure shit still take note of who votes who and draw conclusions from that in some form, which I'd still call a soft VCA.

I'm not necessarsily referring to some massive analysis and breakdown attempt anyway, it's just a thing that everyone draws conclusions from.

[rb]

@rb

and i tried to correct it?

you said you don't care what my read on kuroi is and how I achived it but you called me slightly scum for just following others in this? like wtf?

the rest was me sarcastickly attacking you for the pure wifom shit you said there and your doing it again. what do you expect me to say about this baseless assosciative assumption? you think kuroi was attacking his scumbuddy like that and you think I faked all the research and back and forth with my other hydra head about it? do you think I faked defending against kuroi and I'm just bussying my partner atm? cuase thats what your saying without backing it up

if you knew me even a little you knew how over reactionary my persona is as either alignment and nah I'm just defending myself against an accusation.

and yeah? its just feel like confbiasing if your town or just shitting around to see if you can put your anchor in someone for later days if your scum ...

~Ice

Like I said, I read you as null leaning scum. So I'm not sure why you're so offended that the thoughts I'm giving on you aren't detailing things that are super scummy, because if they were I'd just be calling you scum.

You asked me directly for my opinion so I gave it to you. What did you expect, a big gold star with *TOWN* written on it?

[rb]

No one, not even scum, knows for certain if someone will flip town.
Just saying.
Tho maybe rb forgetting this is multiball makes him kinda towny?

You can just read it as scum/not-scum.

The point is more to do with whether or not Ice knows the alignments of another player or not, as opposed to whether they flip town specifically.

[rb]

@rb

as i said i'm trying to correct you on myself

I'm not offended in anyway.

you accused me of just following others while I just gave out my analyzes on two main wagons earlier today which you didn't refer to at all eventhough I asked multiple times.

yes , cause I'm town and I want to be town readed.

It's more to do with the fact that of all the people you choose to analyze, you choose Kuroi who was already well and truly scum-read by many people. I read the actual cases and didn't see much that screamed to me you were putting a great deal of genuine effort into actually solving the game.

Oh you want to be townread? I take it back then, you must be town because no other faction could possibly want to be townread, right?

[rb]

No one, not even scum, knows for certain if someone will flip town.
Just saying.
Tho maybe rb forgetting this is multiball makes him kinda towny?

You can just read it as scum/not-scum.

The point is more to do with whether or not Ice knows the alignments of another player or not, as opposed to whether they flip town specifically.

Still, the only alignment she can know is (in her team/not in her team/unknown), unless there's some sort of Masonry between the 2, which would be the only way for her to know he's town, but then, she wouldn't be voting him.
So i don't see your point there.

The point is that if Kuroi was on her team she'd still know one of their alignments and Kuroi could be a bus to earn townpoints since he pretty much looked like the go-to lynch anyway. I have no idea but I'm assuming the scum teams in a 28 player game are at least like 4-5 people so it's not exactly strange to think that they'd bus on Day 1.

[rb]

@rb

as i said i'm trying to correct you on myself

I'm not offended in anyway.

you accused me of just following others while I just gave out my analyzes on two main wagons earlier today which you didn't refer to at all eventhough I asked multiple times.

yes , cause I'm town and I want to be town readed.

It's more to do with the fact that of all the people you choose to analyze, you choose Kuroi who was already well and truly scum-read by many people. I read the actual cases and didn't see much that screamed to me you were putting a great deal of genuine effort into actually solving the game.

Oh you want to be townread? I take it back then, you must be town because no other faction could possibly want to be townread, right?

I defended myself against him and found a scum. I don't post cases for shit. I'm trying to read you too

and I never said the second line. you said why your scumreading me I said this is my iso and what I did and what your saying is wrong.

why instead of seeing why is your read is wrong and checking out what I said, your just getting offensive?

~Ice

You never said you wanted to be townread? What about post 3510?

You literally say - "I'm town and I want to be town readed."

I feel like you're trying really hard to make it look like I'm being unfair to you here, when I'm really not.

[rb]

The point is that if Kuroi was on her team she'd still know one of their alignments and Kuroi could be a bus to earn townpoints since he pretty much looked like the go-to lynch anyway. I have no idea but I'm assuming the scum teams in a 28 player game are at least like 4-5 people so it's not exactly strange to think that they'd bus on Day 1.

Oh, i was talking about the 2nd part of your post where you said that she could know that Kuroi was going to flip town.

Right, and yeah she couldn't know if he would flip specifically town but she could know he would flip not-scum. That's what I mean.

[rb]

@rb

as i said i'm trying to correct you on myself

I'm not offended in anyway.

you accused me of just following others while I just gave out my analyzes on two main wagons earlier today which you didn't refer to at all eventhough I asked multiple times.

yes , cause I'm town and I want to be town readed.

It's more to do with the fact that of all the people you choose to analyze, you choose Kuroi who was already well and truly scum-read by many people. I read the actual cases and didn't see much that screamed to me you were putting a great deal of genuine effort into actually solving the game.

Oh you want to be townread? I take it back then, you must be town because no other faction could possibly want to be townread, right?

I defended myself against him and found a scum. I don't post cases for shit. I'm trying to read you too

and I never said the second line. you said why your scumreading me I said this is my iso and what I did and what your saying is wrong.

why instead of seeing why is your read is wrong and checking out what I said, your just getting offensive?

~Ice

You never said you wanted to be townread? What about post 3510?

You literally say - "I'm town and I want to be town readed."

I feel like you're trying really hard to make it look like I'm being unfair to you here, when I'm really not.

I said I want to be townreaded but not for wanting to be townreaded ... omfg

no I'm not I'm saying I'm town why you think I'm scum. you said why I said why your wrong and yes I want to be townreaded. wtf is that?

yes your unfair. your not following up the conversation and taking back what you accused me ans is obviously wrong.

~Ice

Uh, I can't parse that.

[rb]

She means it's natural to want to be town-read as town because it validates your play, and that's different from trying to get the rest of the players to town read you cause you have a vested interest in being town-read (cause as scum you are afraid that if you don't have enough players that like you, you will get lynched).

There is an internal consistency in Ice's posting about her reads that considering the free flowing nature of her posts is nearly impossible to fake.

Yeah I get that my comment was meant to highlight how redundant it is to say, "I'm town and I want to be townread!"

Everyone's going to say, "I'm town." Town say it. Scum say it. Cult say it. Serial Killer's say it. Why should I care that she says it?

She's consistent, yes. I don't know if it's that hard to fake or that I trust any of her reasoning/reads.

I'm pretty bad at interpreting emotion-based players though and like I said I just provided this because ASOIAF wanted my opinion. I will note that as difficult as I find it to parse her I'm probably leaning more towards null again and I'll probably try to check my potential confbias - but those were my thoughts and I was asked and we're playing mafia, so I didn't filter them.

[rb]

Everyone's going to say, "I'm town." Town say it. Scum say it. Cult say it. Serial Killer's say it. Why should I care that she says it?

So. It's NAI
Why are you caring then?

Because Ice seems to be saying it as if it should make me think she's more town.

[rb]

rb you said your scumreading me cuase I'm just following others and have others read in my iso which is absolutely wrong. I made two posts earlier today that explains my mindset and how I get there transparently.

now comment on them and stop dodging the main question with "she is saying she want to be townreaded cause she is town"

I asked for your opinion cuase you were commenting on anything beside my posts. I want your read on my mindset that I explained earlier today not for just fixing your read on me but to read you. your dodging is making me think that I was wrong on my initial slight townread on you for the effeort you were putting in for sortting the game current pushes. it feels your nitpicking words to stay in the higher side of the conversation instead of analyzing them.

~Ice

I said I'm reading you null, leaning scum. Why do you persist in twisting what I'm saying as if I just said "Ice is scum"?

I also never said you're JUST following others, I said I don't think much of your case on Kuroi/WT - which are the two things you asked about. I also said really early in this game that I dislike meta reads generally speaking, so again it's not like I'm saying anything new.

Yes, you asked for my opinion and you got it. Now you're having a meltdown. What am I even 'dodging' here?

I'm nitpicking words because you're apparently not even reading the things I'm saying.

[rb]

Everyone's going to say, "I'm town." Town say it. Scum say it. Cult say it. Serial Killer's say it. Why should I care that she says it?

So. It's NAI
Why are you caring then?

Because Ice seems to be saying it as if it should make me think she's more town.

Oh and just pointing out - this thing didn't even factor into what I was null-scum reading her for, so I'm not sure why you think that I'm "caring" about it? I said a thing that to me seems pretty self-evident: everyone wants to be townread. Do you not agree or something?

Wtf are you people even talking about?

[rb]

Also stop dodging her questions by overfocusing on this.

The funny thing is that you're saying that was her intention, when it really wasn't. Yet it somehow made you elevate her from null-scum to null, so i would say that it's causing more of a psychological effect on your read, on something that you... supposedly shouldn't be caring about?

P-Edit: @rb

What. The. Actual. Fuck. Luna?

I didn't say I'm reading her null because of the town thing, I said I'm reading her null again in the post where I mentioned that yes, she does seem consistent. I still don't know how hard it is to fake but I'm not scum-leaning on her anymore. Also, there's two people who keep asking me questions about the thing I said, which I've now explained at least 3 times - I'm not the one focussing on it, other people are asking me/questioning me about it. In my eyes I was just highlighting a thing said by Ice that literally any alignment could say: AT THE SAME TIME AS NULL-READING HER.

I mean yeah, how fucking weird that I'm null-reading a person who says things that I feel like any alignment could say, right?

[rb]

when I said scumread i meant the thing that made you lean scum on me

you said I'm following others like the way you have similar reads with others? if not how and where

why your leaning scum on me again?

I think there's a language barrier here. Honestly.

I've said like at least five times that I didn't like the timing of your case on Kuroi. You DID say you were V/LA so again: null. The case itself doesn't scream town to me, so again: null.

I'm not leaning scum on you again. Wtf.

putting you down in scum lean for not analyzing what I asked you (not even reading it) and pure dodge and pretending it to be something else.

I've been fully reading them. your not the one who is reading anything and dodging here

~Ice

Fucks given = 0.

[rb]

Did you just admit to your kuroi case being OMGUS?

First you say the thimg of your cause is because you were V/LA and now you're saying that it's because it was a defense. Which one of us has no idea again?

Also I can't stop laughing because your scumlean on me just reads to me like, "you scumlean on me?! I scumlean on you!"

[rb]

Fucks given = 0.

well that was just a try to make you read the actual fuck more than being a legit read cuase I feel your just holding a middleground shit about me-kuroi interaction

and given that preflip accusation it only seems like you really want to discredit my push on him

~Ice

Wow it's so fucking weird that I'm holding a middle-ground on a null-read, isn't it?

Yes I really want to discredit your push on Kuroi, that's why I'm saying I find it null as opposed to saying I find it shit - because I REALLY want to discredit it...

[rb]

Did you just admit to your kuroi case being OMGUS?

First you say the thimg of your cause is because you were V/LA and now you're saying that it's because it was a defense. Which one of us has no idea again?

Also I can't stop laughing because your scumlean on me just reads to me like, "you scumlean on me?! I scumlean on you!"

wtf are you talking about I had kuroi as scum sinsce way earlier in game becuase of how he reacted to WT

that was about why I wasn't the first one who made these major wagons or being the first one who says WT might not be scum as you accused me of just duplicating. yes I was V/LA in this game for 2 days. the response on kuroi is me defedning against his shit telling why he making this shit making him more likly scum.

and no thats not even close to what I just said about my scumlean on you.

~Ice

So then why did you say your case was a

defense

if you were scumreading him from early in the game?

[rb]

So far you've said:

- the timing of your case was because you were V/LA
- the timing of your case was because you were defending yourself
- you were building a case on an early scumread

I don't think all three can be true. Or maybe they can. I can't really tell tbh because I find it impossible to decipher how much of this is language barrier, how much is your emotions and how much is because you genuinely think I'm dodging/being scummy right now.

Because if we're just misunderstanding I'd like to fix it up but if you're just "over-reacting" or actually think I'm scummy I really don't give a fuck and this interaction is shitting up the thread.

P-edit:

Again, I read the case I just don't think it's great and nor do I think it makes you town (or scum). You had reasons for making it as any alignment and your case could have been made as any alignment. What's so hard to understand about this?

If you think there's something you said that's supposed to make me go, "WOW! ICE IS TOWN!" then please do point it out to me.

[rb]

So then why did you say your case was a defense if you were scumreading him from early in the game?

there are two parts in kuroi scumread.

he said he has my slot as town way earlier. yesterday he started to post from post 1 again called my first emotional rages probably scum aligned - backtracking from his earlier read right after two of my scumgames finished which had dgb and titus on who are both townreading me for my emotional posting.

when I called him out for this timing he faked a pattern in my meta,

I explained all these with a meta read on him based on the same game I found and said how we discussed stiff (me and my hydra partner earlier today)

~Ice

You see this is fine but this particular case could be made as any alignment, so I read it as null. Is that a problem?

[rb]

So far you've said:

- the timing of your case was because you were V/LA
- the timing of your case was because you were defending yourself
- you were building a case on an early scumread

I don't think all three can be true. Or maybe they can. I can't really tell tbh because I find it impossible to decipher how much of this is language barrier, how much is your emotions and how much is because you genuinely think I'm dodging/being scummy right now.

Because if we're just misunderstanding I'd like to fix it up but if you're just "over-reacting" or actually think I'm scummy I really don't give a fuck and this interaction is shitting up the thread.

P-edit:

Again, I read the case I just don't think it's great and nor do I think it makes you town (or scum). You had reasons for making it as any alignment and your case could have been made as any alignment. What's so hard to understand about this?

If you think there's something you said that's supposed to make me go, "WOW! ICE IS TOWN!" then please do point it out to me.

thats not what I said at all

there were answers to different question and the third is not at all true

Kuroi had a townread on my posts before and He changed that later right after those game finished. I was V/LA and yes so many points were actually already mentioned not by me before - like luna said the same thing about WT apperently and achived another deduction - I made a full Iso dive from my pov so that was saying why it happened now and not before.

the case is not omgus

I had kuroi as scum before him attacking me . the fact he attacked me like that is scummy as well and I explained it.

I usually townread whoever start to scum read / engage and legitly read me unless I feel their just dirting me up and kuroi is dirting me up.

and no you may be null on the case, you just need to know what was the case cuase that disaprove what you said about me sheeping others on kuroi.

~Ice

Yeah and that's fine. You can do this as either alignment and have the potential motivation to do so as either alignment as well, so I read it/you as null. I've rescinded what I thought was scummy about it, because I don't really see the likelihood of a bus now but it's still a multi-faction game and I'm still not entirely sure if your persona is as impossible to fake as others are saying. If you keep it up for more of the game then I'll townread it but it's still only Day 1. Although yeah it's a pretty long Day 1 I'm just not comfortable town-reading it because like in the above I don't necessarily see you as doing anything that's specifically town-motivated, despite the consistency.

We done now?

[rb]

not till the scums die never till the scums die.

vote kuroi with me please ?!

~Ice

Sorry, I still think WT is scum.

[rb]

Maybe LLD is trying to get a ruling to AVOID people potentially getting modkilled as opposed to trying TO get people modkilled.

I fail to see how that would warrant an outburst in a game with a 21 day cycle. Yes lots of people have posted a lot in the 1 week of game play, but it's hardly LLD's fault that the rest of us are collectively smoking meth.

She made a promise to provide some content and I only see the problem if that somehow doesn't pull through.

As to your last point, you could have just responded with: "hey LLD no blue and red text isn't banned don't worry. I look forward to your input and I want to see you more productive in this game."

No need for non-game related hostility.

[rb]

Are we still lyching Kuroi? Or are we switching to RAM?

Why do you want a RAM switch?

[rb]

OR we could lynch scum WT and stop fucking around.

[rb]

From what I can tell there's two towns. What I notice is that both Kuroi and BBMolla give a nation result of "Other"

Also being Human doesn't make you Town unless you're an Individual Human. I think that the "Individual" factions are the Town ones, and it seems there's Individual Human and Individual Vampire. West Empire seems to be scum, but they only kill non-humans? They're human but their WinCon isn't the same as Individual Humans so they aren't Town.

I guess there might be a non-human scum faction then, to counter-balance the human one.

So to summarise:

BBMolla + Kuroi = Town on different factions
Dram = Cult (I think)
Titus = Scum

My night check was Nation on Titus, so no help there.

[rb]

Wait no, BBMolla's nation is West Empire. Okay I'm lost then. No idea how to differentiate town via Nation result then, because it's inconsistent.

[rb]

Being not-scum doesn't mean you aren't cult. Changing people's WinCon is pretty much definition of cult, no?

VOTE: Salt Squad

Like I believe that you believe you're Town, but I don't believe you really are what you believe you are.

[rb]

Also I'm pretty sure the "Town" WinCon is the one that says you win with the Individual Humans, regardless of your race.

All Individual Human factioners please vote Salt Squad.

[rb]

What if "Individual Vampire" was your fake claim.
I mean you said:

Kuroi was town I believe.

I don't know how much more obvious town I can get this game.
And I am clearly being pushed by 3 people who think individual vampire is a scum faction.

It's not a scum faction, but it's a faction different to Individual Humans, and since there's like zero chance you're aligned with Individual Humans - it makes perfect sense for anyone aligned with Individual Humans to vote you.

[rb]

Sure, you could try convert me then I might have your wincon. I'd rather just lynch you though.

[rb]

Based on Kuroi's flip, he was clearly town, ie the Individual Vampire faction is town.

I do believe Salt Squad is being genuine here especially wrt his defense that he wasn't allowed a fakeclaim.

-Nahdia

Salt is either in the wrong town or is scum. I don't see why I'd not vote either of those reasons, since race is totally unreliable in this game and apparently location is too. Only thing that matters is wincon.

[rb]

Individual Humans and maybe Titus' faction are the towns like Toog said. I think I was wrong thinking Titus was scum.

Luna I thought won with humans but now she's revealed she actually had Dram's wincon which isn't really for the Individual humans it's just about some dumb treaty.

Also I think RAM/WT are actual scum-faction.

I'll lynch any of Luna/Salt/WT/RAM and anyone else who could be confirmed as not being Individual Human/Titus Faction.

[rb]

I'm not sure but Titus could only kill non-humans (with 2 exceptions) so I'm taking it her faction doesn't count as threat to Individual Humans and that those are the 2 towns. Everyone else =.some flavour of scum or 3rd party or weird thing that doesn't ultimately equate to town or helping either of the two town factions.

[rb]

So maybe Individual Humans + Titus faction can actually win together? Not sure but it seems possible that way.

[rb]

I'll also lynch A50 if needed because I'm starting to think he might be one of those non-recruitable humans, but not aligned with either of the Town-human factions because he makes such a big deal over people being not-human that it feels fake.

Salt/Luna/RAM/A50/WT lynch pls.

Ram + Salt + WT = probable scum
Luna + A50 = not town

Someone from here needs to die, thanks.

[rb]

Almost50 sounds like he's some kind of non-Wulden scum BTW

Yeah I said that before. We can lynch A50 if you want.

Fact is the 5 people I mentioned need to die.

POSSIBLY not Luna though as I review it. Dram is definitely not town though, I don't think their WinCon is compatible with Titus or Molla's faction.

Someone do correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm pretty sure that it would be mod confirmable that the two compatible wincons here are Titus/Molla.

[rb]

VOTE: LLD

It just doesn't add up.

Albert

Someone with brain!

@rb + LLD: OK.. I got it.. we all got it ... you two are scum together. Like rb will lynch SS, Luna, me, WT or even RAM (I have no idea why RAM is tossed in this pool tbh) but won't touch YOU. I mean, even Stevie Wonder can see this! And yes I cannot be culted.. I'm a bloody PGO for God's sake. You come near me and you get blown to pieces. That IS why I said "Humans" should not target me, but non-humans were welcome. I simply did not want to kill a Human, bc I am one and I didn't want to kill one of my own.

You vote doesn't scare me either. If Humans want to win this game they will come forward and unite for the cause. If they fail to, then I won't be the one to blame for failing the human race. It's as simple as that. Good Night!

Yeah like I said, you're probably a human not aligned with Individual Humans. If you're PGO that makes more sense *shrug*

Don't know why an ACTUAL PGO would claim it when they're so far from a lynch and "not scared" of the vote though? Why wouldn't you at least wait it out and not-claim.

[rb]

To whom it may concern:

This is how I perceive the setup so far:

1- Four Human factions, namely: Northern Tribes, Western Empire, Eastern Kingdom & Individual Humans.

Apparently these have overlapping win-cons. Each would win when "all threats to said faction are eliminated", but it doesn't necessarily mean that they would be considered a threat to eachother.

2- From Titus Role PM we deduce there are at least 3 Heros (mentioned by name in said PM). I suggest these INDIVIDUALS would be considered a threat to eachother (but not to other members of the other factions). Once 2 of them die this means the one standing is not threatened by any Human entity (individual or consequently a faction) anymore, and all 4 Human factions can win together. (This bit was not clear before we saw the Titus flip in full).

3- There is a non-Human faction that can also win with humans.

4- All other non-Humans (aside from the faction mentioned in #3) are considered enemies of the Human Race (they can either cult, recruit or kill Humans). These factions fight for their own survival.

5- I have yet to understand the "new treaty bit", so I'm not going there until we have more information.

6- I'm reluctant to claim more, but here's how i know there are likely 4 TOWN factions: I belong to the Northern Tribes (Nation) and we also win when all threats to our faction are eliminated. To the members of this very faction who share the very same condition, my PM text colour is

CYAN

(I believe that's proof enough, since no Northerner has flipped yet).

Now, I invite all Humans and their non-Human allies to unite here and now and VOTE LLD. It's a priority for all of us to get rid of a possible CULT than it is to get rid of the one shot recruiting Vampires. Besides, the vampire doctor is dead, so Salt could actually be taken out by any killing role out there at night.

Now I've put myself in a very delicate situation, bc all non-Humans will now want me dead for being this firm against them (except those who can win with us, that is). But I will remind you that we started the game as a majority (and I estimate that to be between 16-12 to 18-10), so we still likely have the majority here. If we all unite and vote for one of the confirmed non-humans ) and I already explained why it's better to vote off the Wulden over the Vampire) we can get them lynched no matter what. Additionally some of them will have to join us to try and blend in (isn't that what Scum is all about?) and we will have a clearer view as to who to investigate at night (be that for race if Humans have that, for Nation or Location as most of us have been offered to pick pre-game).

P.S. I'm not even sure the "Town" needs a Race Cop to begin with. If the Race isn't indicative of alignment then the Town simply has no use for one. Only SCUM will need it to ensure they target a Human as a recruit, since it's specifically stated in the rules that only Humans (actually only some of them even) can be recruited, while other races cannot.

Please give this your utmost consideration when deciding to cast a vote.

P-edit:

@rb:

The only Humans that will be against the Human Race are those culted or recruited by a Scum faction. And yes, you're right, I'm not "directly" aligned with them Individual Humans, as I'm a proud NORTHERN TRIBES member!

@Mastin:

Can we call ourselves VIKINGS??

Okay so if you're not lying then you're basically confirming what I was thinking: which is that the two TOWN flips from last night are Titus + BBMolla? Yes? With the added point that there's 2 more factions with win conditions like that.

Okay, A50's off my lynch-list at least for today.

Salt/Luna/Wayward/RAM

Wayward + RAM is because I think they're just overall scummy, as I went through a few Day 1 ISO's during night game. Luna + Salt definitely don't have the same WinCon as I do. I'm pretty certain that this treaty business isn't compatible with the win condition of Individual Humans or any of the tribes you're speaking of.

[rb]

EBWOP: night game = night time*

[rb]

Oh and I'm inclined to disagree about there being no humans who are not aligned with any of the Individual Human factions. Also if A50 is correct, I really think that one of either the Vampires and/or Dram's faction are scum/cult. Like there's no way that both of them can both be Town. UNLESS I'm _COMPLETELY_ wrong and Titus' faction is the scummers...but how would that work?

[rb]

Cause like, depending on wordings couldn't it jsut refer to having a Wulden (me) who is part of the treaty?

I very much doubt a HUMAN treaty would include a WULDEN "race", but what do I know? You could argue you were once Human, but so were the Undead and probably Vampires, Lycans and what not (nobody claimed a Lycan yet, btw. Shouldn't there always be Lycans vs Vampires and we could go Bella-isque

Upon further investigation, (though I don't think A50 is perfect in their analysis) I can't think of a valid reason NOT to lunch LLD now.

VOTE: LLD

It does one of two things:

1. Confirms that Wulden race are definitely the worst ones to keep around because they are automatically (IMO) cult if they flip Scum.
2. Confirms that race doesn't mean a damn thing considering win cons. This will be valuable info going forward and we can then just ignore 90% of the flavor and just Scum hunt.
2.

Omg can we just lynch this slot already?

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

[rb]

@Frozen:

Would you disagree that lynching the CULT is more important than lynching any other scum? Cult starts with 1 recruiter (cultist) and there's only been 1 night so we have a 50% chance of flipping the cultist themselves. If not, then -at least- keep them at bay (since they are not guaranteed to succeed every night).

Btw, do the cult suicide if the cultist is lynched in this game??

Okay so I'm struggling to follow but why is LLD the cultist exactly?

[rb]

Like I actually believe (for now) that she's not part of the Wulden Faction because why would a Wulden claim otherwise when it's basically a 100% guarantee that they're Cult/Scum and they're basically guaranteed to get lynched for it? If she was actual scum this play would be terrible, I don't think LLD is terrible.

I mean maybe it's just so terrible that it's good, but LLD had no pressure on her to reveal herself if she actually was Scum/Cultist but she did anyway. I might be completely wrong but an LLD lynch just seems really dumb at this point. Am starting to wonder again if you're part of a human scum-faction A50.

[rb]

WT is definitely not something we should even be entertaining lynching given the info we have at the moment. Possible he's just bad at posting or a VI, but he's almost certainly the low-hanging fruit option of the day, and should be disregarded as of now. A50 and I are definitely on the same wave-length today, and I can definitely back the decision to lynch LLD first for cult fear. Salt needs to be vigged tonight if we still have a role capable of doing so.

Unvote;
Vote: LLD

I really think LLD is gonna be not-cult though.

[rb]

rb, you do realize there's a huge number of factions in this game, right? I'm 99% every faction we've seen flip so far is town, though not necessarily all of them can win with each other. I'm also like, 90% the Individual Human faction could win with ANY of them. There's nothing I've seen that requires the Individual Human Faction to be a group of xenophobic fuckheads. Literally the factions that have flipped thus far are confirmed town based on mechanics; their wincons are "eliminates all threats" not "control's 50% of the votes" which is listed as the scum wincon in the mechanics post. You need to stop being so closed-minded about this, actually look at the flavor of the people who are flipping, and really THINK "does this sound like a threat to me?" rather than just seeing "oh it's a faction oh hurr durr vampires r evil guess that's scum."

The way this town works is that there's various town factions, all or virtually all of which have a number of mutual enemies (right now I suspect a Wulden and Nosferatu faction, as well as a full cult we're mod confirmed to know nothing about, not the recruiter factions we've seen which were explained in the mechanics posts). However, not every town faction can necessarily win with every town faction, there MIGHT be some conflict there. But again, I'm positive the Individual Humans are the neutrals that can win with all of them.

-Nahdia

I realise.

I'm 99% that at least one of those two factions is cult/scum. I don't know how you can be so sure they're all town. I agree, there's wincons that align - I've said that. But I don't think the Individual Vampire + Human factions are compatible wincons. I want to know what was redacted from Kuroi's Role PM.

The humanity treaty thing is starting to sound like some mason-ish kind of thing which doesn't necessarily have scum-motivation or the power to recruit more masons. It's actually the MOST cult-sounding type thing there is. I also don't see how it's a compatible WinCon with Individual humans + whatever Titus' WinCon is. You can explain it to me like I'm 5 years old, I don't really care. Just explain why I'm supposed to think it's a not-scum/not-cult faction.

Oh and then also explain why I'm supposed to not vote Wayward and why you insist I vote LLD when that's pretty much banking on her either:

1. claiming Wulden when she's actually Wulden-aligned for like, no fucking reason at all because she's under no pressure
2. making an absolutely

_SSSHIT_

fake-claim as opposed to it just being a real claim

[rb]

Ohh okay, I get what you're saying.

They all have to have all threats eliminated, except Dram's one which requires a player alive. Isn't that cult?

But just because they're a town doesn't mean they are an allied-town. I don't really think KuroiTown is the good Town.

[rb]

LLD was confirmed as Wulden by a race-cop so uhhh.... she kinda had to claim that?

You're not supposed to think it's a scum/cult faction because those factions are denied fakeclaims and given the "town" wincon as specifically listed by the moderator; "eliminating all threats". Scum wincons are specifically listed as "controlling 50% of the vote".

Dram's wincon looks more like a group survivor wincon? Only one of them needs to be alive when the game ends doesn't sound like a cult; a cult traditionally still needs majority.

-Nahdia

Okay thanks. I've only played open-style setups and I'm not dumb but I'm definitely not experienced with big setups like these. If A50 is right and you're right, that means there's poossibly 8 (or more) factions. That seems completely absurd but I think my brain can accept it now.

VOTE: LLD

[rb]

But just because they're a town doesn't mean they are an allied-town. I don't really think KuroiTown is the good Town.

OK well this is where I guess we disagree. I believe Individual Humans win with whomever as long as they're not explicitly scum. Otherwise the game really wouldn't make much sense.

-Nahdia

It would if Vampires had a factional Night Kill

[rb]

UNVOTE: LLD

Why are we so certain that Wulden is cult again?

Nahdia said in an earlier post that race doesn't matter, yet she wants to vote LLD because 'race-cop got her as Wulden'.

Pls explain.

[rb]

Again sorry if I sound dumb, just pretend I'm 5 I won't be offended.

[rb]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!

I am halfway caught up and I just.....

Pants people!!! They are very important. Mastin specifically said this game could not be broken through mass/flavor claim so why the hell would anyone specifically claim right now? Between yesterday and today and how many claims there have been already I seriously am banging my head against the wall.

I have a townread on both LLD and Stormblade and their reactions to the shitstorm haven't changed that. Since this game is inherently bastard maybe there could be an individual Wulden? Based on my flavor (not claiming), I could really see that happening. I do believe "Individual" <X> is without a PT.

The only thing we have gained is more people streaking around the thread and voluntarily claiming.

Let's get to scum hunting.

What we need to figure out is what is a "threat". IMHO Kuroi was town but probably a different town than me. But the truth of it is I don't know right now and I think that we need to push people who are either silent through this OR people pushing specific stances for "information". This game is a clusterfuck. Let's not make it easier on scum by waving information about ourselves like candy.

When I get caught up the rest of the way tonight I will start asking specific questions I just want to make one message very goddamn clear:

Keep it in your pants!!!!

Oh wowow I thought I was going insane until I read this post. Math you better not be scum.

Does this mean you'll lynch Wayward/RAM with me?

[rb]

@Stormblade

Buuuuut it also says we know nothing about the cult.

I don't know why we're taking flavour to be relevant.

[rb]

I'm going to have to go with FA on this one in that I don't really think that it's somehow a matter of lynching all the scum + cult and then everyone else gets to have supper-happy-fun-times and wins the game.

Or maybe they do. I really can't tell because I think everyone believes they're Town but I think that what everyone believes might actually be wrong and Dram and co. aren't necessarily scum but they're possibly not-town and their WinCon isn't compatible with Individual humans necessarily.

I get the impression that Luna/SS/Dram/Stormblade are like shared-survivors or something who need to survive to endgame and that they'll probably take any kind of action either town or scum aligned if it means they survive. Maybe I'm crazy but that's how I see it. I don't really see how their wincon works with what I know to be Town. I think they actually misunderstood what they are and mistakenly thought they were 'Town' because 'new humanity treaty' sounds all special and good and human-alignmenty, but they didn't know that Titus/BBMolla type factions existed.

[rb]

I can dig the Invidual Vampires being the superhappyfuntime friends of the Individual Humans, but the humanity treaty stuff is dodgy af and I want it dead.

[rb]

I am Cerberus, you are all dumb, let me make a huge post that reaches no conclusion and parrots Nahdia.

LLD's forced claim after the check is not null ( ), it makes her by far the likeliest scum or if we want to be generous anti-town even over heartless whom I know has other as a nation and is therefore very unlikely to be human, likeliest is they are the 5th faction.

Beeboy is still posting in this game and this makes it unlikely for him to be pure scum, LLD did not cc so this discussion for today is pointless anyway.

I'm human and 'Other' so no it doesn't mean shit. Race is literally poop in this game.

[rb]

Actually, from a strictly logic based perspective, Frozen Angel is

right

. All we know is that ONE scum faction has the wincon "You must control 50% of the vote". There could be other scum factions with other win conditions.
Personally, I disagree with that notion, but that's not a confirmation.

-Nahdia

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Which is why your faction looks bad to me

[rb]

So since I don't know who is with me or against me, what does this mean?

It doesn't say I'm individual or isolationist, and I don't have a PT.

All it says is that you win if all threats to the Northern Tribes faction have been eliminated.

Problem is, I don't know who or what they are.

You're Town.

[rb]

I'm going to hazard a guess that the Town which is meant to co-operate, who don't have PT and who can have a shared win is:

- Individual Humans
- Northern Tribes
- West Empire
- Eastern Kingdom

By virtue of the fact that Individual Humans are called individual Humans - and the Tribes, Empire and Kingdom all have a HUMAN champion who presumably kills non-humans.

[rb]

Oh and _MAYBE_ the Individual Vampires are part of this and can be part of the super-happy-fun-times. MAYBE.

[rb]

I'm human and 'Other' so no it doesn't mean shit. Race is literally poop in this game.

False, Martin confirmed that geography makes it more likely for you to be a certain faction, and that there are exceptions to throw people off.

So you confirm claiming human with other as a nation?

'More likely'
'Exceptions to throw people off'

Yes, I'm a human from the Nation of 'Other'.

Apparently I'm the exception. So I guess that DOES make heartless more likely scum unless there's more than one exception, by Mastin's mechanics.

[rb]

Why do I feel like there's a human scum faction though? Why tell me whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[rb]

Am actually on the side of FA here because we're all acting like things are mod confirmed when things aren't really mod confirmed and I don't like that people keep using the term mod confirmed when the things they're talking about aren't really mod confirmed because it makes me think they're just saying mod confirmed to make me feel like they're mod confirmed when they aren't really mod confirmed.

Mod confirmed.