Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Hebee Inc]

UNVOTE: Vedith. I'm going to have to swallow my pride and admit that I was completely and totally off on everything in this game so far. My focus over the next couple of days is to just go back and reread the game and focus on the Vedith/NJAC interaction in some detail. At this point I'm not even sure of any of my reads anymore. Before this, I'd like to address a few of the points made against me.

~~~~

Re: Vedith

I want to know your meta before this.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make.

Scum found.
You want to know my meta, but you imply that you know it already from the type of posts I make.
This could be Vedith not being Vedith, but you have already decided that this is Vedith being Vedith while asking for meta on me.
And you can't say that this is wrong, because you are responding to a comment about me with saying that it's my usual play, just to ignore it (TYhis is what I get from, Vedith being Vedith).

Your reads are basically mirror with High Hopes (Who I haven't decided yet if I think scum or not)

Why did I keep my vote on Kyndy? I wanted to see what scum would use this to their advantage. In 156 he defends me voting Kyndy, in 220 he uses it for an excuse to push me as scum, but in a subtle way.

1) Regarding the first point: I think you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying at all. Why would I bother asking about meta not once, but so many times, if I already knew how you played? It'd be a useless waste of time.

2) My statement on the types of post you make are based on your past behaviour. I posted this in 156 as well, which I think sums up my thoughts about how you've posted, and is what I'm referring to when I refer to your posts as such.

To sum, his posts are non-comittal and reactionary, which to me are quite clear scumtells.

3) I presume that for your third and fourth point you're asking me about me about this post I made here.

4) For your next point, I posted my reads before High Hopes did and have modified them only very slightly.

5) How do I defend your vote on Kyndy in any way? I said that you're arguing against me on kyndy back in 156, and that's good.

After he goes off on how I'm wrong on kyndy (which is fair enough, argument is always good),

Back here, my vote was on kyndy and yours was on her as well. I don't defend you voting kyndy at all, and even say this in the same post.

His vote on you is not due to legit suspicion, he really hasn't formed a case on anyone yet

. But you're already getting defensive based on an

RVS vote.

I get that you may not have noticed it was an RVS vote, but it really is a little bit too defensive for my liking.

I guess you could interpret this as being supportive of your vote, but my intent was to say your vote was an RVS one and not based in fact, and Kyndy's overreaction to that RVS vote is a little worrying. I don't think I flip on it at all in my later post (220): I mention your vote is an RVS vote twice, and in both cases say that your vote is weak.

~~~~

Re: Sir Bastion

1) Yeah, apologies for my formatting issues. I can't find any way to make it easier to read, apologies. As for posting my train of thought, I have a serious problem with not being able to control what I actually say and get across.

2) I don't think I'm sitting on the kyndy wagon at all. I've been pushing for Vedith over the last couple of posts I've made, with NJAC as a close second. I'm keeping an eye on kyndy without being too commital as I'm watching for how her actions develop over the course of the next few posts. I'm unsure on her recent posts, and I don't want to force a read that I'm not sure on, and even more so now considering what happened when I believed Vedith was right.

3) I think reads are useful as a starting point and can be very helpful in kickstarting the game past RVS mode. I felt the game was already moving past RVS, but needed a little bit of a push to move things along. Knowing what reads people have is actually immensely helpful to see who they're potentially buddying with (in terms of who they're being soft on), but the act of providing reads in themselves can be analysed. From things like what tells they pick up on, to their structure you can really tell a lot about who a person is based on reads. Also they provide a really good discussion over whether a person deserves a town/scum read, and probably most importantly they force you to take a look at the game overall.

~~~~

As of right now doing some initial reading I'd say my initial read on NJAC was definitely wrong, but as I mentioned I'll get back to that later.

This is raising all sorts of red flags for me, smells of scum distancing.

[lilith2013]

Votecount 1.011

light_ganski and HighHopes have yet to respond to their prods.

kyndy101 [1]

HighHopes

Vedith [2]

light_ganski, Hebee Inc

light_ganski [3]

Lycanfire, shaddowez, Raskolnikov

SoraAdvent [3]

NJAC, Vedith, Sir Bastion

NJAC [1]

superbowl9

Not Voting [2]

kyndy101, SoraAdvent

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-08-22 01:30:00)

pagetop count: Vedith 3 | Lilith 2 | NJAC 2 | light_ganski 2 | Hebee Inc 1 | HighHopes 1 | shaddowez 1 | kyndy101 1

[light_ganski]

I'm here now people. Not going to be very active until I get home on tuesday evening I'm afraid but I'll try to keep up.

Ugh anyway my reads are all scrambled and there's a nice growing wagon on my head. Lovely

Definitely scum reading lycanfire now. Still not sure what to think of the cop claim but not scum reading it. Gonna read some ISOs now and get back to you.

[SoraAdvent]

OK here's

So for the vast majority of the game NJAC and Vedith seem to be reading each other as town based on this interaction here near the beginning of the game, after NJAC initially calls out Shadow for selfvotinghere in 20.

Then, after shadow posts this:

It's unlikely scum would be questioning my alignment

Vedith immediately agrees by posting this:

It's unlikely scum would be questioning my alignment

Shadow and NJAC are town then.
We're getting somewhere!

Agreeing with the IC immediately is something I didn't pick up on before, and that's a little suspicious in and of itself, how he just flat-out agrees without stating any reasoning whatsoever. The later posts seem to indicate he's not being sarcastic, either, since he maintains this throughout the game. Soon after he makes this post, which 'confirms' a town-team of NJAC/Lycan/Shadow with very little evidence of Lycan.

What is really interesting is that NJAC follows this up soon by somewhat agreeing with my post suspecting Vedith in 119, then immediately turning around and saying that Vedith is a part of the town-team in 120.

@Sora:

I agree with what you said about Vedith. I'm also not a fan of his recent posts.

However Kindy is more in the townie side of null for me, but I'll let her defend herself.

So, we are the Town-Team. Why is Lycan listed with us?

My theory is that he doesn't want to appear suspicious by immediately jumping to Vedith's defence as soon as I attacked him, regardless if Vedith's town or not, because if he did so it'll be really obvious that he's trying to protect him. In fact, if we assume Vedith's town and NJAC is trying to curry his favor (being aware of this), 120 becomes fascinating. He refers to Vedith as we even though there's no evidence supporting Vedith as town at that point. Sure, you could argue that NJAC's townslip was evidence of him being town, but on that basis alone he considered Vedith town himself? The fact that there's not an iota of suspicion on NJAC ironically makes me suspicious of him.

Or I could just be reading this wrong and it's sarcasm, so sue me.

~~~~

OK, so I may be reading way too far into this one, but I really don't like the feel of NJAC's defense of Vedith one bit in this post here.

I don't see a "solid case" against Vedith, and many of your points against him are based on posts he made after you announced your "solid case".

Your arguments seem forced and written just for the sake of supossedly support a scumread, but I have to say they're weak and most of the posts of Vedith are saturated with sarcasm (a bigger dose of it than what I'd like to read, tbh) more than scumminess.

However, this one is a valid point and I want to see Vedith's response:

Why would reactions mean nothing? Also, why are you overlooking Light Ganski's comment by offering the point of looking for a reaction?

While, yes, this is the style of posting that NJAC has adopted (clear from his posts within the game, don't know his meta at all), I don't like the way it's written. Yes, I don't think kyndy's post was very well reasoned, but NJAC doesn't provde any reasoning at all. He says that they're weak and saturated with sarcasm, but doesn't note any examples within her post or explain why they're weak. He makes a point that her posts have come after, but it still seems like a stretch to me, and the softball question he quotes to Vedith seems to me to be an attempt to balance his post out to appear less scummy.

Let's compare this to his post against me.

@Sora WRT 156:
You initially supported Bastion's push on Kindy with arguments in 114 like

"I actually both agree and disagree with Sir Bastion that the random RVS unvote is somewhat suspicious"

(so you agree but at the same time disagree? ), and now that the wagon on Vedith is starting to gain some traction you suddenly end up supporting Kindy's push on him.

IDK but to me your post seems as an excuse to opportunistically vote Vedith.

I'm happy with my vote on you.

When he sees that my post on Vedith starts ramping things up a little more (eventually leading to his claim of Goon Cop), then he does immediately start to react against me (perhaps he didn't think kyndy was worth the time to respond to). I'd like to focus on the second part the quote, which I've quoted. He believes that my explanation isn't adequate, and that the wagon is heating up -

the most important thing to note is that at the time he posted, Vedith only had two votes.

Yes, he may think that my paragraph of explaining why I don't like Vedith's posting is fine, and that's all well and good, but to me (and this is just an emotional read), he seems to be flustered that I'm attacking him. This then makes me think that he's just focused on defending him, and I find it hard to believe it's simply because Vedith calls him town.

This ties in to his reads post here as well.

@NJAC: Can you please give reads of some sort? I'd love to see who you consider to be the prime suspect now, if you don't mind.

Yep, I was going to give my reads after commenting on some recent posts. A bit of patience please.

Leaning scum: Sora, superbowl.
Null: light, kindy, Lycan, everyone else
Leaning town: Bastian, Vedith, shadow

Guess which two people had a scumlean on Vedith? Superbowl had his reads in 154, and I voted for him as well.

~~~~

At this point the post is looking pretty crowded but posts like 187, 218 and 221 aren't exactly helping this case. In conclusion, I honestly think Vedith is probably town at this point and NJAC might be just trying to buddy up with him to garner his favor.

That being said, VOTE: NJAC

[HighHopes]

I shall make a post soon.

[light_ganski]

UNVOTE: Vedith

[Hebee Inc]

UNVOTE: VedithFair point, I still like a vedith vote, but if we do this we should do this the right way.

VOTE: NJAC

[Lycanfire]

Soon after he makes this post, which 'confirms' a town-team of NJAC/Lycan/Shadow with very little evidence of Lycan.

i see no problem with this tbh

[superbowl9]

I'll probly post sometime today, what a time for NJAC to go V/LA tho. Wanted to see how he reacted to the pressure of a building wagon.

[Vedith]

I shall make a post soon.

I'll probly post sometime today,

...

[light_ganski]

VOTE: NJAC

L-3 seems like a good place to put this for now but I'm equally happy with a lycan lynch since they're both scum

[Vedith]

VOTE: NJAC

Oh nice, NJAC wagon is happening! Chance to lynch a town where I can then push another town tomorrow on Lycan!
I have nothing else to add to the game until town realise that I'm scummy.

Fixed that for you buddy.

[light_ganski]

You really think so? Vote me then

[light_ganski]

But if not, stop taking every chance to bait me with your crappy reads

[shaddowez]

Vedith, who are your scumreads? Why ask people to move from the larger, yet still slow moving, wagon onto a smaller wagon?

[SoraAdvent]

@Vedith you've been pretty opinionated about NJAC being town so far. Mind answering my post when you're free?

Also, I'm waiting on posts from High Hopes and superbowl before pushing anything further. It's annoying that NJAC is on V/LA though, might just do a kyndy reread in the meantime

[superbowl9]

Don´t expect that much. Its (hopefully) not going to be very long.

[superbowl9]

@Hebee is everything not signed bee from hebi? Did your reads evolve? I get the lycan vote but the vedith vote is seemingly based on one interaction, and njac vote is based off of "doing it right"?

@Highhopes

That being said:
Vedith is not a lynch for today.

Why? I thought I knew what you were saying at the time but now i want to know your reasoning.

Kyndy's been feelin town recently
I'll probably elaborate on this later but if i dont remind me

@shaddow (and kinda everyone) would you be ok with an NJAC lynch today? Who would you lynch over him?

[Vedith]

Vedith, who are your scumreads? Why ask people to move from the larger, yet still slow moving, wagon onto a smaller wagon?

Because NJAC is town.
I'm not going to promote his wagon now, am I?

[Vedith]

@Vedith you've been pretty opinionated about NJAC being town so far. Mind answering my post when you're free?

Also, I'm waiting on posts from High Hopes and superbowl before pushing anything further. It's annoying that NJAC is on V/LA though, might just do a kyndy reread in the meantime

I don't see a post directed to me?

[Vedith]

@shaddow (and kinda everyone) would you be ok with an NJAC lynch today? Who would you lynch over him?

Oh boy, I'm part of kinda everyone!
Soya / Light / Hebee and anyone who's just being an opportunist!

[light_ganski]

VOTE: Vedith

[Vedith]

10/10 light!

[HighHopes]

Let me make it clear that WE ARE NOT lynching a PR claim who feels genuine in such a scumsided setup. That fucking kind of stupidity is ridiculous, and I swear to god. Vedith looks town as all hell, and I would know. Any more votes on him makes you confirmed scum.

Unvote now.

[HighHopes]

Vedith, stop being a princess and start playing the game instead of your drama whore shit.