Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Raskolnikov]

That was directed at those who are probably lazy like BBT or sotty if town, because the formulaic thing I've seen done with fastwagons is you look at the reaction and judge on that including if omgus or not.

[Raskolnikov]

If people only used valid tells mafia would be a very different game

But I think you mean popular/generally accepted? I still see it personally, even if most disagree.

[MichelSableheart]

Not a fan of the Rask wagon. At the very least, he seems to be putting some effort into scumhunting, and the wishy-washyness is more likely to come from someone who has no clue as to who is scum, IMO. Maria, you seem to have some experience with Rask. How good is he at faking towntells?

Blackvoid is making some town posts as well.

Hoopla, don't you think that your bubblyness, as Rask calls it, should have drawn more reactions then it did? Are there players in his game who you expected would comment on it, but didn't?

Also, looking over goodmorning's ISO, I don't see a lot there that's making me feel good about the slot. Better bandwagon then Rask, IMO.

Vote: goodmorning

@Hoopla, sotty: care to come back?

[Raskolnikov]

And yeah, omgus. Bite me.

eh, this comment was unnecessary cause omgus as a valid tell died years ago

p,edit - you're right, i didn't

I wonder what's your main account now.

[TwoFace]

why does it matter?

[Raskolnikov]

It doesn't, but I'm going to naturally stay curious anyways and wonder if you're someone I played with before.

[Raskolnikov]

Well it would help with meta but the assumption is you made an alt exactly to prevent that.
But the fun is, if I have played with you, in somehow figuring it out because it's a mystery just like scumhunting. But this is getting offtopic.

[Hoopla]

Mostly though, the post saying she feels her scumread is about to crack under pressure but she changes vote is absurd to me.

I feel like it's fairly obvious from context that I am just teasing goodmorning (she seems like a good kid imo and I might invite her to start a town bloc if/when she proves her innocence to me) -- but really, who could resist such a juicy wagoning opportunity this early in the game?

[TwoFace]

Well it would help with meta but the assumption is you made an alt exactly to prevent that.
But the fun is, if I have played with you, in somehow figuring it out because it's a mystery just like scumhunting. But this is getting offtopic.

your name sounds familiar so maybe we have played, but I also like to read games.

If somebody actually correctly guesses my alt, maybe I will out it but yeah let's not clog up the game with it.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, don't you think that your bubblyness, as Rask calls it, should have drawn more reactions then it did? Are there players in his game who you expected would comment on it, but didn't?

I came out all guns blazing yet with no expectations about reactions at all. I know it sounds crazy, but I think I managed to pull it off.

[Raskolnikov]

Mostly though, the post saying she feels her scumread is about to crack under pressure but she changes vote is absurd to me.

I feel like it's fairly obvious from context that I am just teasing goodmorning (she seems like a good kid imo and I might invite her to start a town bloc if/when she proves her innocence to me) -- but really, who could resist such a juicy wagoning opportunity this early in the game?

Okay, if you're town stop talking like this then.

It's vague as to when you're "serious" or not which makes any given action low-commitment. If an opinion is convenient to hold on to, you can later say it was serious. If inconvenient, you can say it wasn't.
But in this case that feels like a stretch. You voted on dice and then said you voted not for it which implied it was at least somewhat serious, as well as what you said about switching. It's almost goes too far really.

Whatever align this has to end. Anyone can realise the issue here; if someone is disingenuous and saying things they don't mean as town, you are not any different from scum being disingenuous and saying things they don't mean. This behaviour from town makes scumhunting difficult so it shouldn't be allowed on principle past RVS (is this still rvs?) unless it's very obvious to be joking, which evidently it was not. And it gives scum an out when people do find a slip up.

It also just annoys me, but that's because I am a uptight bastard who gets bothered seeing people all cheerful-like and having fun... But that's not relevant here.
*ahem*

I want a serious read from you on me as leading wagon, goodmorning (good kid? is that a read or personality?), and whatever else you can offer. Underneath your attitude, I am vaguely familiar with your experience and particularly game knowledge from the setup theory threads, and even if this particular thing hadn't happened, I would want something from you anyways at this point to judge.

[Sotty7]

Also, looking over goodmorning's ISO, I don't see a lot there that's making me feel good about the slot. Better bandwagon then Rask, IMO.

Vote: goodmorning

@Hoopla, sotty: care to come back?

I'm tempted but rask's case on hoopla is pretty weak I'd rather keep my vote there for now and see where it goes.

Pre edit: I haven't read her post above me yet. During the hours of 8-6 CST I'm at work and posting on my kindle. I'll be doing my best to keep up but my more substantive posts will be in the evening.

[Raskolnikov]

Havent outed a single read

can you please link me to where you have outed reads, I have trouble locating them when looking over your iso.

Have a bit of an issue with this. He does have a point on you although you deflect it to him. The deflection doesn't make sense either, he did out reads from his first post even, and his iso is full of analysis.

Now I don't think this is necessarily terrible as it could just be antisocial/lazy, but I do think you should give an opinion or stance at this point now like what he said.

[Raskolnikov]

Hoopla, don't you think that your bubblyness, as Rask calls it, should have drawn more reactions then it did? Are there players in his game who you expected would comment on it, but didn't?

I came out all guns blazing yet with no expectations about reactions at all. I know it sounds crazy, but I think I managed to pull it off.

...how would you fail to pull it off?

[Hoopla]

Okay, if you're town stop talking like this then.

It's vague as to when you're "serious" or not which makes any given action low-commitment. If an opinion is convenient to hold on to, you can later say it was serious. If inconvenient, you can say it wasn't.
But in this case that feels like a stretch. You voted on dice and then said you voted not for it which implied it was at least somewhat serious, as well as what you said about switching. It's almost goes too far really.

Whatever align this has to end. Anyone can realise the issue here; if someone is disingenuous and saying things they don't mean as town, you are not any different from scum being disingenuous and saying things they don't mean. This behaviour from town makes scumhunting difficult so it shouldn't be allowed on principle past RVS (is this still rvs?) unless it's very obvious to be joking, which evidently it was not. And it gives scum an out when people do find a slip up.

It also just annoys me, but that's because I am a uptight bastard who gets bothered seeing people all cheerful-like and having fun... But that's not relevant here.
*ahem*

I want a serious read from you on me as leading wagon, goodmorning (good kid? is that a read or personality?), and whatever else you can offer. Underneath your attitude, I am vaguely familiar with your experience and particularly game knowledge from the setup theory threads, and even if this particular thing hadn't happened, I would want something from you anyways at this point to judge.

Raskol, I know you're frustrated, but you have to respect the shapes I'm throwing down here. You may not like it, but it's already netted us an L-2 wagon so I must be doing something right. As a polite compromise I'll give you my for real 100% serious read on the situation (sandwiched between angel emojis so you know I'm definitely for real no-takesies-backsies)

I thought BlackVoid's post illuminating your overly qualifier-y post was good and I like to reward good posts with wagon support. You're the best candidate I have so far, and I'm still reviewing your reaction to your wagon so no further comment yet. goodmorning is a good kid, but I have no read on her alignment yet. I think Michel is town. The end.

[TwoFace]

Havent outed a single read

can you please link me to where you have outed reads, I have trouble locating them when looking over your iso.

Have a bit of an issue with this. He does have a point on you although you deflect it to him. The deflection doesn't make sense either, he did out reads from his first post even, and his iso is full of analysis.

Now I don't think this is necessarily terrible as it could just be antisocial/lazy, but I do think you should give an opinion or stance at this point now like what he said.

he doesn't have a point though. who cares if I haven't outed any reads. on page 3/4 that isn't scummy at all.

he outed reads? I didn't see any which is why i asked him. I will look over his first post again. thanks

his iso is full of analysis? if you say so

[TwoFace]

ok so he fos'd somebody. fine he gave 1 read.

[Raskolnikov]

Am I in the twilight zone?

You may not like it, but it's already netted us an L-2 wagon so I must be doing something right.

You seem to be taking credit for this wagon which I don't get. Not only that, but justifying your playstyle with it (??).
Even if you assume any early wagon is good as it starts the game, I'm pretty sure your style was not the cause of this at all and that doesn't somehow negate or address my actual, explicitly voiced problems with it.

Me: I have a problem with your play for X Y and Z reasons
Answer: [doesn't respond to points] it got us this l-2 wagon so it must be good!

Will anyone see my problem with this?

If you actually think like this, UGH.

I thought BlackVoid's post illuminating your overly qualifier-y post was good and I like to reward good posts with wagon support.

Okay, we're starting to get into sensible territory.
Do you know what though? I townread black for that post as well. I don't think he is scum who faked that perspective.
The question isn't if you think it's a good post or not, it's if you agree with what's said as something alignment indicative.

If you're town and think playing the game "rewarding" good posts with votes without having your own opinion is a good approach, I don't know what to say. For starting an rvs wagon, okay. It's still earlygame for now.
But if you play like this midgame or later (well you see your honor, I lynched him yesterday to reward a good post) it might be actually be for the best if I'm out of this early.

[Hoopla]

If you're town and think playing the game "rewarding" good posts with votes without having your own opinion is a good approach, I don't know what to say. For starting an rvs wagon, okay. It's still earlygame for now.
But if you play like this midgame or later (well you see your honor, I lynched him yesterday to reward a good post) it might be actually be for the best if I'm out of this early.

Do you feel like you're a chance to be lynched early?

[Raskolnikov]

I have seen some hammers in my time.

I also don't trust anyone here. Even those I'm familiar with. Actually, especially them.

[Raskolnikov]

I mean, I suppose someone who, if they actually like to "reward" people for good posts by voting with them, could fail the see the issue with relying on other people.

[Hoopla]

Not everyone can be a leader. Some of us have to follow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE: Rask

Cool, Rask is town. Rask, who do you think is most likely to be scum from your wagon?

[Hoopla]

UNVOTE: Rask

Cool, Rask is town.

woah, woah woah, lets not jump to conclusions here...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, Rask is town.