Micro 662: ArcAngel's Twin Trap Mafia (Ended)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lame game is lame so far. Most votes on the Cylon

Who?

Arnold. A Cylon is a robot imitating a person, from Battlestar Galactica. Because I was calling Arnold Terminator earlier. It was an RVS joke, because I didn't have any leads. We're past it.

Being defensive is indeed a scum tell. Town care less for personal survival, more for investigating and lynching scum. If you drop everything as Town to defend yourself against an attack, you're Towning wrong.

Ah okay. No problem.

This is a generality and doesn't take into account play style or personality at all. I don't think she dropped everything in this case to defend herself considering how inactive the game was. There isn't really much to work with and we are also waiting on two replacements.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Misa, I don't dispute anything in post 63, but you haven't changed my mind on anything either. I also just re-read 58 and I get what you're saying but that's just not the vibe I get from your earlier posting. it feels more like something you came up with later.

Lil, I agree completely about defensiveness in general. There are a few different types of defensiveness though and the defensiveness instead of doing anything else feels like scum who doesn't know what to say and uses it to be active. The vote on me after I called her out for not scumhunting fits perfectly with that.

Misa's post 69 is just... like... if that's not scummy I don't know what is.

Pine, defensiveness definitely can be a personality tell, or hell even a town tell. I just don't think it is here. It's case by case like most things in mafia.

Misa, any power role who plays differently because they are a power role is doing town a disservice. That's a good way for scum to catch on to who power roles are. (There are exceptions to this, but probably not in this setup)

Oh I agree with you, I just feel her defensiveness here isn't really telling since there isn't much to work with but her OMGUS vote was pretty bad.

[Pine]

[img]https://media4.giphy.com/media/GfAD7Bl016Gfm/200_s.gif[/b]

Undue

defensiveness is a scumtell. If a Townie is under heavy attack from something that can be countered and defeated, they should defend against it. When a player moves into full-scale, drop everything else defense mode after one or two votes or a weak case not going anywhere, it's a sign that they have no investment in pushing Town objectives, only in not getting lynched themselves. That's a scum motivation.

[Pine]

Boooo. Image fail. Fortunately, my image applies equally to my tag fail and your interpretation fail.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Well, the game is coming to life so we must be doing something right.

[MisaTange]

Eh, don't believe that was OMGUS since that involves empty accusations imo.

Also I agree with Pine -- Those "defensiveness" posts come after Pine's (and yours) accusations.

[milkshake]

Sleepless Assassin should agree with this vote. Bandwagons are good for making games come to life!

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sleepless Assassin should agree with this vote. Bandwagons are good for making games come to life!

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

This is true

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

First serious vote. SA goes that overboard making a bullshit case in RVS? Nah. This smacks of someone eager to fabricate reasoning, rather than spotting something real.

Vote Sleepless Assassin

Hey at least he's doing something. Like trying to progress the game. Don't vote him for it.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

Cause I feel like that was an opportunistic case by scum rather than town

Your argument falls flat when you realize that I wasn't scumleaning Pine/TB at all. Not from the beginning, not at the end of page one. If I had been scumleaning Pine/TB due to their RvS exchange, I would have voted for one of the two in my 15. You've made a PBPA of my current iso, but you haven't noted that my vote was on Tyler the

entire time before this post

... I.E: Someone who hasn't posted at all.

This post's vote is my first serious vote.

I repeat,

I never believed TB/Pine was scummy at all.

Not even a gut-scumlean. I never suspected Pine/TB due to 15. In fact, Pine is a gut-townread atm (due to 25, willingness to help a newbie, but I also recognize that can come from scum as well).

I only needed to point that out in the world (as in: I recognize that Pine/TB might be universally-townread in this game, which I'm okay about atm) that town finds TB/Pine to be scummy enough for a lynch, Pine/TB's RvS exchange might be some means of getting to their partner, especially if their partner shows sign of scummy behavior. It's future-evidence, if you will. It's nothing to pursue because if we applied that scumtell to right about now in three-page, just-out-of-RvS, we're doomed to fail, even with the basic questions of "Is this scum-intentioned? Is this town-intentioned?"

Which is why I sounded noncommittal before that post.

Me pointing out those two RvS votes were in no means a way to properly scumhunt.

How am I able to scumhunt when literally all of the events of this thread are literally:

• RvS > Pine suspecting me due to 15
  
• Pine suspecting me due to 15 > RvS
  
• RvS > SA suspecting me due to 15

If you're suspecting me just because I'm not scumhunting, then it's fair for me to suspect you because you're tunnelling.

The others have been just asking questions which is NAI, and Kop promised to post since yesterday but that is also NAI (especially as I'm still assuming that everyone's busy with Thanksgiving).

^My gut reaction to this is that it may be distancing/tactical bussing. It just plain smells fishy that they're so dead-set against one another. I've had very successful scum games where we come out strong against one another right from the start. Whoever wins coasts on early scumlynch.

PEdit - Reaching? Not at all. You quoted specifically the one thing that supported your position, ignoring the posts following it which explained the context surrounding the voluntary negation of that point. That's like, definitionally out of context.

The thing is bussing in a micro does not work well usually. There's only 2 scum and losing someone on Day 1 leaves only the other 1 to fend for himself.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

Yeah I'm getting a strong tactical bussing vibe. At the very least, I feel confident that this dispute is not Town vs Town

ewww

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

VOTE: Pine

Misa and SA are town.
I don't like Pine's behavior around their argument.

[Pine]

Wtf are you on about? Tactical bussing works just fine in micros. If you do it in a larger game, it looks odd when the survivor lasts a long time. In a micro, you only have to run Town for a couple of days.

[Sleepless Assassin]

VOTE: Pine

Misa and SA are town.
I don't like Pine's behavior around their argument.

Hmm. Why is misa town? What about pine's behavior don't you like? or is it just that you disagree about bussing?

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't like how you're trying to make it a 1vs1. Vote stays.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

VOTE: Pine

Misa and SA are town.
I don't like Pine's behavior around their argument.

Hmm. Why is misa town? What about pine's behavior don't you like? or is it just that you disagree about bussing?

Gut, I guess?

As for pine, see post above.

[Kop]

Wtf are you on about? Tactical bussing works just fine in micros. If you do it in a larger game, it looks odd when the survivor lasts a long time. In a micro, you only have to run Town for a couple of days.

I don't think tactical bussing is something normally done on day one. And even in smaller setups it doesn't always work.

[Pine]

Shrug. I'm just saying it looks fishy. Until evidence suggests otherwise, they're both my suspects.

It definitely doesn't look Town vs Town, so they both need rope.

[MisaTange]

...That implies that both of us are scum.

What makes you think it isn't TvS though?

[MisaTange]

TvS is Town vs Scum, if that isn't clear.

[Kop]

Shrug. I'm just saying it looks fishy. Until evidence suggests otherwise, they're both my suspects.

It definitely doesn't look Town vs Town, so they both need rope.

So are you saying it's Scum vs Town, or are you implying it could be scum theatre and it's scum vs scum?

Judging this post, your implying it's the latter, if both need rope.

[Pine]

Shrug. I'm just saying it looks fishy. Until evidence suggests otherwise, they're both my suspects.

It definitely doesn't look Town vs Town, so they both need rope.

So are you saying it's Scum vs Town, or are you implying it could be scum theatre and it's scum vs scum?

Judging this post, your implying it's the latter, if both need rope.

It could conceivably be TvS, but the whole argument feels contrived and forced. This implies that one or both are scum. I've been saying this right along, are you not reading?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hey Kop, got any reads yet?

[milkshake]

Arnold mentioned Pine's comment that the exchange between MisaTange and Sleepless Assassin was "not town vs. town." I might as well note that I also didn't like Pine's comment. But I don't have any solid reads at this point.

I think the best stance at this point in the game is pro-lynching-anyone. The numbers back this up too. I think this strategy will serve the town well:

1. Bring someone to L-1
2. Listen to what they have to say
3. Someone hammers or someone doesn't. If the latter, repeat these steps.

[MisaTange]

I think I dislike the wording of the post ("pro-lynching-anyone" implies you want to kill town), but I think I know what you're throwing at; pressure wagons, especially as I, personally, don't have any solid reads either and that is a good place to start.