Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[Hawk]

Hey everyone just letting ya'll know I am at work but will try and be more active than Arrow or Missle were. Catching up right now will make a post with my reads later tonight.

[Hawk]

Ack so sorry guys still catching up my other game was picking up steam and I have been trying to get notes together. Initial reads are Toto Town, Krylea Town and Fruitsman softTown. Liking Toto's read believe at least one of Grey, Titus, Shannon are scum.

[Hawk]

Okay finally caught up entirely. This whole game seems fucked because of AFK Lurking players. Feel like we need to pressure now tho.

Here's my full read.

Town:
Toto
Fruit

Null/Scum lean
Krylea
Titus
Grey

Pretty sure Scum:
Shannon

So VOTE: Shannon

[Hawk]

Fucking shit. It's grey and Titus. Guys if Shannon is town. I didn't get a chance to explain my reads but basically I wasn't buying the accidental self hammer d1 or a few other things. I feel like this is my fault for trying to juggle Christmas stuff and writing out my reads!

[Hawk]

Pfft lol Titus I promise it isn't a scum Flail it was 2am where I was and I had forgotten Toto asked for reads I came back to check and miscounted thinking Toto had voted.

[Hawk]

Hey Toto honest play question. If you're coming in as a Fill for someone else is there a certain etiquette or good way to present your reads if you have a couple hundred posts to sift through?

[Hawk]

Hey Titus honest play question. If you're coming in as a Fill for someone else is there a certain etiquette or good way to present your reads if you have a couple hundred posts to sift through? Like what is optimal play for that kind kf situation?

EBWOP

[Hawk]

Sorry guys been super busy with Christmas stuff just now getting back to a regular schedule where I can take time to read and react. I will post more in depth later today after I get off work but I can quickly respond to Titus since my reasoning is pretty quick and sound.


638 Titus. I didn't 180 my read. I was afraid that because of the quick hammer that I was incorrect. If you check my Reads which I didn't get to go into but I was very confident in Shannon. In a world where Shannon is scum I don't see Grey being scum but when I Thought Grey hammered so quickly I immediately was on the defensive because my secondary read is a world where our scum is You and Grey.

The two worlds I'm living in right now (without catching up) are Shannon and Krylea/Titus or Grey and Krylea/Titus. In a case where Grey insta Hammers Shannon and we don't get any more discussion before thread lock then that means I was most likely wrong about Shannon and Grey is scum. I even say in my desperation post after panic that if Shannon is Town then I think it's Grey and Titus. Because I could become NK too.

So yeah it was slightly panic'd but your evaluation of why I responded the way I did and the fact that I didn't unvote Shannon are unfounded. Shannon still hadn't responded when I last posted. After I catch up I will unvote her if I change my opinion.

[Hawk]

640 and 644

I still want to hear from fruit, But feeling extremely confident in my Shannon Vote still.

Reading Shannon's ISO I find her reasonings fake or forced because of error. IDK if the self hammer was fake (probably wasnt) But I also don't think she isn't scum just because of that.

She tries to get a BP claim which just feels like scummy Role fishing and I don't like it.

On top of that her direction for pushing pressure off of herself has been Titus. Which to me seems super strange to me. Titus is firmly in the Krylea is bad camp. I'm fencing it cause I still wasn't sure at the moment thinking Krylea might be trying to scum lead the town to one more mislynch but I really don't get that feeling anymore. So Shannon could have thrown attention that way and counter scum read Krylea for calling her out. But she didnt. Then there is the fact that me and Krylea both read Grey and Titus as a possibility because of votes yesterday and a belief that at least one of them was scum. So she could have counter pressed Grey but no she diverts to Titus.

Then Titus responds with don't be an idiot basically...

To me this reads as scum being like let's try and make it seem like Shannon is genuine and just messes up she's town. But it doesn't read like that.

Firmly in the Shannon Titus camp.

Fruit thoughts?

[Hawk]

Shannon appears scummy as town, but she is not incompetent.

You keep on repeating this but you have never given an actual good reason why scum is any less likely to fuck up quote tags than town is.

Scum are not going to implode their entire argument by derp hammering themselves.

The reason isn't "good" for you because your PM is red and it's the thing you harp on to appear busy.

Hang on, this heavily implies you think the self-hammer was deliberate. The rest of us have been assuming it was accidental. Why do you think it was deliberate?

No. I am saying scum wouldn't make that kind of mistake.

It is incredibly easy to mess up the quotes of a post. Is this your only reasoning behind Shannon being town?

[Hawk]

No I'm reading Fruit as Town.

Toto looks Town
Krylea looks Town
Grey looks Town
Fruit looks Town

Fairly certain it's Shannon/Titus.

I'm fine with lynching either.

[Hawk]

Krylea kinda hit the nail on the head here for my read on Fruit. I might be wrong but even his most recent posts feel town and have good content. Like asking Shannon why she's voting Titus and not pushing more on Fruit who she was voting for prior.

Also I liked his thought process behind claiming and how knowing there is a BP isn't helpful to town and we shouldn't even nesscarily believe a BP claim anyway.

[Hawk]

@mod can we get a Prod on Fruit? His last activity was 2 days and 2 hours ago...

I'd like fruit to weigh in on the situation... As of right now most of us are in agreement that it's Shannon Titus... the only thing bothering me is Fruit being quiet and Shannon's willingness to Bus Titus because I don't see anyone besides Titus backing Shannon at this point. I know Toto wants Fruit to weigh in so do I.

[Hawk]

Welcome. JDW.

[Hawk]

UNVOTE:

Why did you Unvote Shannon?

[Hawk]

I know I'm asking why she unvoted in general. Sorry my Grammar is bad lol.

@Shannon, Why did you unvoted? Titus wasn't at risk for hammer so is there a particular reason you're unvotingoing while we wait on fruits slot JDW to catch up?

[Hawk]

OMGUS mobile keyboard autocorrect!!

[Hawk]

JDW.... please read the thread and catch up. It's not nesscarily you but the slot you are filling for...

[Hawk]

So what did Shannon claim again I can't find the page she claim when she is at L-1

236 where she accidentally self hammers she claims VT.

After that no one Hammers her which to me bothers me a lot... at that point before the accidental self hammer everyone in the town was ok with this lynch and while it's not good to lynch town I think with how scummy she had played it's fine to lynch her D1 as VT. Instead what we end up with is her not getting Lynched. A second wagon formed. A PR lynched and two VT's claiming at the end of day 2. That's pretty rough for town.

I'm waiting on JDW to pose more thoughts. As it was I was fairly certain fruit was just quiet and taking his time. As is now I'm not sure how to read that slot and would like more from JDW.... I came into the game as a replacement of a replacement that had less than 12 posts between the 2 of them.... I can understand needing to catch up but if he's read the first 10 pages or so I'd hope he'd have something for us today.

[Hawk]

JDW have you ever played Mafia besides TOS like IRL or on Skype or anything?

[Hawk]

Each of our opinions are gonna vary on our reads JDW but I think at least Me, grey, and Krylea think Shannon and Titus are both scum everyone else is either town or possibly scum.

For me my list looks like this from town to scum at the bottomoment

Town
Toto
Grey
Krylea
JDW (fruits slot)
Titus
Shannon

and of course I'm town.

If it turns out Shannon is town it shakes up my reads quite a bit but right now I'm heavily leaning Shannon Titus. I'm fine with lynching either.

[Hawk]

Well, shake up your reads in advance then please, because I'm town town x

Convince me Shannon... Because here's the thing... you and I don't see eye to eye. I know my PM is Green. If yours is Green too that makes me firmly believe that the camp is somewhere in Titus, JDW, Grey. The only problem is correct me if I'm wrong. You are now town reading Titus which puts us to JDW and Grey which is joy a world I'm can see happening...

Who is scum if you're town. Cause I know I am so if you're town too then you gotta show me how you me and Titus can all be town and who scum is.

[Hawk]

Well, shake up your reads in advance then please, because I'm town town x

Convince me Shannon... Because here's the thing... you and I don't see eye to eye. I know my PM is Green. If yours is Green too that makes me firmly believe that the camp is somewhere in Titus, JDW, Grey. The only problem is correct me if I'm wrong. You are now town reading Titus which puts us to JDW and Grey which is joy a world I'm can see happening...

Who is scum if you're town. Cause I know I am so if you're town too then you gotta show me how you me and Titus can all be town and who scum is.

Nope. It's you and K.

Titus you're so scum in my book I'm sorry man. I know it's not me. I could almost believe it's like K/Fruit or like K/Grey but I promise you it's not K me so sit your Scum butt down.

[Hawk]

I am currently playing mafia maniac which is also a forum mafia and real life with my friend's .

Okay well if you've played real life mafia then you shouldn't have too much problem.adjusting. Just go through the Thread and figure out your reads. Toto and you are the two with the ability to hammer Shannon Titus is sitting on me and not moving. Probably because he's scum or Krylea has convinced two Town to vote with him...

[Hawk]

Toto your vote is on Titus would you feel better if we lynched Titus and went from there rather than lynch Shannon?

[Hawk]

I was just waiting for shannon to do something townie. My only worry is shannon could just be having a really really really bad town game.

If that is the case then the people town reading shannon before for bad reasons (fruit/jwd + titus) are more likely to be scum.

Fruit's comment on shannon's 'sound plausible' comment in late D1 is particularly worrying. Jwd hasn't done anything today and I feel the newbtown show is somewhat fake.

The thing is I don't see fruit+shannon because asking fruit for a hammer would be too obvious? But then again that may just be it. Shannon knew that if elhabe claimed pr it would go back to her.

Titus has yet to provide any reason why is hawk+krylea. Hawk looks town to me and is in fact my strongest town read.

I share a lot of these feelings and sentiments one of the reasons I didn't propose switching to Titus earlier was because of the possibility of Shannon Fruit which I agree sounds super obvious, but with JDW playing newbtown in that slot I have nothing to go off of....

If Shannon is town I don't know exactly how the rest of this shakes out but I'd need to pour over the ISO's again to figure out how we got here...

[Hawk]

@Krylea any thoughts on the current state of the game? We need to try and come to a consensus....

[Hawk]

Can we just lynch Shannon? Worst case scenario is Shannon is town and we go into Lylo. With Titus Wageningen strong reads on me and Krylea. I'm null on Krylea but if Shannon flips green and I'm still alive I will snap vote Krylea as Krylea fruit is probably our mafia pair. If Shannon flips red like I think she will then it's easy it's fruit or Titus. I don't like that we're in this position unless someone else has something to say I think we are all just gonna sit here and stare at each other until our faces turn blue...

We can't sleep cause if we don't lynch Scum just kill Toto or Fruit and we're back to the same place. Where we think it's Titus Shannon and Titus thinks it's Krylea Me.

[Hawk]

Okay so after reading Krylea's and Greys ISOs again I'm more or less convinced they are town... Our two scum party lies with Fruit Titus and Shannon. I don't like any of the three but Titus seems convinced Shannon is town just because of a post error d1. Literally no reasoning for scummy behavior before or later. Simply Shannon is most likely town and Titus is most likely scum. It's hard for me to really read it any other way with so many replacements and so little from the Fruit slot. I do not see Toto or Grey being Scum. Krylea if she is has received almost perfect scum cover from Shannon and Titus. So can we just hammer Shannon Toto or JDW.

JDW if your PM was green and you are town just Hammer Shannon. I know this is your first Mafia game on here and it's kinda alot to take in but I honestly think from a town perspective Titus and Shannon are scum so I think this is where we are. Shannon has to flip town for me to believe anything otherwise and at that point I honest just think it's Titus Fruit and Shannon was good cover and Titus played us well making us think she was her Scumbuddy.

[Hawk]

Grammar is shit at 130 am. If any of that reads horribly forgive me.

[Hawk]

So Titus gives Shannon deep clear for being new but then switch votes me and doesn't give me leeway for fucking up and misreading a fake hammer. It was 130 I didn't see it till late and I messed up thinking I'm Toto had voted.

VOTE: Titus

[Hawk]

Titus is at L-1

[Hawk]

Titus claim?

[Hawk]

Well no actual BP should claim BP here cause even if Scum CC BP claim when you flip we know who you Lynch...

[Hawk]

Who too lynch. Sorry very tired here. So you claim VT?

No ill explain my reasoning after you actually say you claim VT

[Hawk]

Fine I'll take your earlier post as a VT claim.

If you are BP you claim for the following reasons and scenarios and how they play out.

You actually are BP
Claim no CC I unvote. We lynch Shannon, Krylea, or JDW most likely.
Claim with CC. we lynch you and you flip BP we lynch CC claim tomorrow hopefully we have a good read going into 2v1 Lylo.

You are scum and claim BP
You would only claim if you know there is no BP cause otherwise your claim gets CC'd.
I unvote. We lynch hopefully second Scum if we miss 2v3 Lylo in which you are heavily favored. This is the most unfortunate scenario but it's not the end of the world We just have to reevaluate our reads if we hit 2v3 lylo.

PEdit: Okay so as my IC where is the flaw in my logic?

[Hawk]

JDW hit just place vote /vote in []'s around the players name.

Also for someone who just came in you wanting to hammer makes me rather sus of you.... maybe Titus isn't on the wrong track and it could be JDW and Krylea.... hmmm...

UNVOTE: Titus UNVOTE: . Extremely surprised Krylea didn't just hammer but came in and even voted intent.... Why when Titus is your top scum read Krylea??

[Hawk]

UNVOTE: Titus Sorry maybe a bit hungover.

[Hawk]

Mostly cause Im still wary of that JDW slot.... he was very much ready to hammer.

Give me a bit I'm still down for this lynch just this game has been at a fucking stand still for so long this sudden jump by JDW makes me wary...

[Hawk]

Mostly because he could have hammered Shannon at any fucking time but didn't but when we switch to Titus he comes in and tries to Hammer immediately for Day end? Can you at least see how that's very scummy...

[Hawk]

Maybe JDW Shannon** not Krylea God my head hurts I can't keep names straight I'll be back in like an hour let me get some water in me.

[Hawk]

Okay this is why I hate replacements so late into a game. If JDW was fruit and had messed up that hammer I would 100% be on a Fruit Shannon or Fruit +1 train. But it wasn't fruit it was JDW. I still don't like Shannon. Less inclined to think Titus is mafia.

@JDW you just wanted Day end why not Hammer Shannon when she was l-1

[Hawk]

Okay here me out here Titus. And answer this. Do you think Shannon derpcleared herself cause she is new and self hammered or do you honestly give her that cleaner no matter her experience level say she was also an IC? Just clarifying

[Hawk]

Yeah this right here. I think that if Shannon doesn't derpclear and fuck up the BBCode that she gets lynched D1 and we flip her as Scum. If she Flips as town then we have most likely Elhabe left and we're in a similar situation where we are possibly leaning one of them. This puts us to a point where I think fruits slot is possibly Scum. But Shannon making it through d1 by the seat of her pants hasn't to me stated anything that couldn't be clever scum taking advantage of a lucky break.

[Hawk]

Yeah this right here. I think that if Shannon doesn't derpclear and fuck up the BBCode that she gets lynched D1 and we flip her as Scum. If she Flips as town then we have most likely Elhabe left and we're in a similar situation where we are possibly leaning one of them. This puts us to a point where I think fruits slot is possibly Scum. But Shannon making it through d1 by the seat of her pants hasn't to me stated anything that couldn't be clever scum taking advantage of a lucky break.

I might be 'clever scum' if I actually *did* anything, though. But I didn't, it was Titus telling people I was town. And suddenly, pouf, away went my wagon (again) and half of you joined me on the new wagon.

Um technically we didn't join you on a new wagon. You were off the Titus Wagon before I switched... JDW came in with intent to hammer. I know you didn't hammer cause you think Titus is town or at least want us to think Titus is town... Honestly this statement reaffirms that I think you and Titus are distancing.

JDW if you still want day end you'll vote this way now or at least give us reasoning why Titus is scum but Shannon isn't and explain your quickness to hammer Titus but not Shannon.

VOTE: Shannon

[Hawk]

@Hawk. I think you misunderstood Shannon. She was talking about we joining the elhabe wagon. Which she never explained why she was voting that way.

Oh... Yeah you're right I forgot about that. Please remember I wasn't here day 1... also I grossly dislike how arrow played day one considering I know my rolecard...

Nice catch Toto.

[Hawk]

Grey's vote is the Hammer I had Vote on Shannon. While I am concerned I am not persuaded that Shannon is not scum.

[Hawk]

I think you were spot on before Titus... I think it's JDW and Krylea... I'm sorry I thought Shannon was Scum...

[Hawk]

Fine then lynch JDW. If you're trying to make it seem like I'm Scum Grey you're sadly mistaken... Why would I kill Toto. You Said it yourself. The only people who would want to kill Toto are Titus if Titus is scum and his partner is JDW or you. Unless the Krylea case is amazing distancing.

VOTE: JDW

[Hawk]

Only removing my vote because I want to be awake if Grey comes in with intent to hammer considering Grey posts as early as 5am my time.

[Hawk]

UNVOTE: JDW would help if I did this.

Gnight all... I've said my peace. I'm firmly in the JDW is scum camp his buddy I'm not sure yet. If you lynch me while I'm asleep GG mafia you fooled me.

[Hawk]

I am understanding the jdw scumreads and am scumreading his play.

Yet, today is lylo. 2 scum alive. 3 town players.

Either jdw is being bussed in lylo or they are town.

Sorry grey I might have misread your post earlier thinking you were pointing blame away from Krylea and Titus not towards him.

This makes sense.

Same time I don't see a reason for Grey or Krylea to shoot Toto. But this can be a WIFOM argument. It can be reasonable to say that we should probably lynch Titus today and lynch JDW tomorrow....

Titus who is scum to you?

Also Grey why vote Titus and not JDW?

[Hawk]

WIFOM. Yolo my read still puts Titus as scum but she was right about Shannon. Oh well

VOTE: Titus

Worst case scenario is I was played by Grey and Krylea which is possible but I don't think so. If that were the case JDW who seems to have gone inactive would have to come and vote with me and Titus... either way we're Lylo and in Lylo I usually go with my gut.

[Hawk]

GG guys. I feel bad for not reading into d1 harder... I tunneled a bit and probably lost it for us cause I was convinced Shannon was scum...

[Hawk]

I was worried this day could go bad actually, especially since we werent able to coordinate the quickhammer on JDW before Hawk unvoted. I was worried you'd catch on to it being me/Grey, convince Hawk and then we would lose. That's why I preferred shooting you last night, bussing me today and then pushing JDW in LyLo/MyLo since Hawk suspected JDW so hard. But Grey's idea ended up working too. It would have been easier if we had been right about Toto being BP and baiting the shot, since then we could have faked that you shot him and gotten a super easy mislynch, but he wasn't BP in the end.

This is scary cause in a world where this happens I probably would have believed it.

I wish paid closer attention to some of the replaced in people. Also wish I had given JDW more time to either be replaced in again or whatever. His attempt to quick hammer fucked with my head man. I was firmly in the JDW Shannon camp for a quarter of a second... If for one second I had believed Shannon was town I think I would have realized it was Grey Krylea... I just wasn't convinced on Krylea cause when I would go back to day one ISO's I'd forget to look at mooneys...

[Hawk]

It also didn't help that Toto Krylea and Grey were firmly with me in the Shannon is scum camp.

If fruit had stayed in and posted more or if any any point I thought Shannon might be town I could see us winning.

[Hawk]

After Shannon was lynched I was still tunneled and gave up lol. JDW was super inactive. I didn't believe Titus + Either you or Krylea was our scum team so I firmly thought that if I was still reading JDW scum I should read Titus as scum. My mistake for not taking my time and feeling like game was lost otherwise.

[Hawk]

This is probably true. I had an unvote post prepped in another tab incase I sus'd a fast hammer.... but yeah that was a bit of a gambit on my part and I wasn't having a great day lol.

[Hawk]

Probably. I was feeling fairly safe cause I didn't think Titus Kreuk was the scum pair and knew I might have a bit before you would be on considering timezones Grey. I was going to take my vote off before 10pm my time anyway so unless you were a stright night owl I didn't worry too much. I even said that... man I got played by you and Krylea. I even had it figured out near the end there but I didn't think we could win with JDW and was fairly certain that was the other possible pair.

Question Grey if we had managed to lynch Krylea who would you have shot? I was leaning more Krylea than you but couldn't Shake JDW being scum... I fucked up letting you sway me to the Titus is scum side :/

[Hawk]

I was feeling fairly safe cause I didn't think Titus Kreuk was the scum pair and knew I might have a bit before you would be on considering timezones Grey.

Never make the mistake of assuming that I operate within a specific timezone.

I keep super weird hours. Check my post history.

I had checked the earliest you ever seem to post is 5am my time and the latest was roughly 9. very few post inbetween. Also remember I didn't have you in my scum pile I was convinced it was JDW Krylea or JDW titus.

Also if you shoot Titus I think ya'll still win unless JDW comes out the woodwork and starts talking.