Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[EchoVision]

Spoiler: Mort Wraith notes

Wraith

30 so no RVS vote to start. I never like when people decline to RVS in their first post but it's prob NAI
119 when I read Debi it was CLEAR to me that she was newb and pulled a ratio out of nowhere. It's one of the
reasons I strongly townread the slot. Scum doesn't come up with an absurd hypothetical ratio and spend
paragraphs analyzing the math around it when scum knows how many people are on their team. Wraith
assumed two things:
1. that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge and because of this
2. that the setup was multiball
That the setup is actually multiball could be confbias but I do agree with Severa here. Why would town ever
think that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge? 9/19 is absurd and everyone including Wraith pointed this out.
Yet Wraith, rather than doing what (?) Creature (? Don't remember who this was might have been Pine) did
and repeat "Adapt" 30 times, took Debi at face value. This belies a paranoia that I don't think is town.
Arguments against this are essentially "But Wraith has done towny things" and "This is reachy" so I'm
keeping these in mind as I read.
121 Wraith continues to maintain that Debi has foreknowledge. It is not a possibility in Wraith's mind that Debi
is newb and has no idea what she is talking about.
126 more of Wraith's not allowing that Debi is newb.
130 Wraith allows that Debi might be newb.
144 Ircher says 'yo dude you're assumin a lot and it ain't helpful' Wraith says 'nah it is helpful bro'
488 starts off towny. Alisae's vote was awful. But I can see scum!Wraith making that post assuming Alisae is
not on his scumteam. Especially without even a vote, just like 'yo look at this scummery!' He then goes on to say
he doesn't like rb's entrance but doesn't say why (for the record, I've seen town rb enter other games in a very
similar way) and he townleans Echo and Grey. Echo+Wraith is Severa's proposed scumteam and Grey is
confscum, so /shrug idk imma keep reading.
621 is grosss accusing now conftown rb of a scumslip and then spending two paragraphs speculating about
multiball. I get that multiball/no multiball is part of the basis for his rb vote, but that honestly makes it worse
for me. Maybe I am bad but as town I wasn't even thinking about multiball before it was confirmed.
622 does Grey make this vote if he and Wraith are a scumteam? Probably not, imo
676 Wraith has already said he thinks Alisae is lynchbait (621) and that he shouldn't lynch lynchbait that day,
but now he's 180ing and focusing on Ali's Pine townread - which is a bad townread yes but stuff like that is exactly
why Ali is considered lynchbait. He also recalls her Wraith vote which I get, it's a bad vote. But it feels like he
tosses it in with other pieces of 'evidence' as part of an Ali case, given that nobody latched onto it originally. He's
also explicitly fence sitting between rb and Ali wagons.
681 apologizes for Debi vote… NAI. I've seen both town and scum do this. Reading the rest of 681 it honestly looks
really town. I agree with a lot of what he says and it's really measured, objective, and gamesolvy. His reads are
confusing though for their lack of Dunn and LUV who had both been fairly active.
777 so this is a D7 flashwagon? Hm. Sitting out is NAI I think but I don't like using unmentionable player trends as
justification for a read. Not sure if it's actually anti-town.
1092 ugghhhh these walls I hate walls (knowing full well I am creating some - I would never ever do this
if I didn't replace in after 150 pages). Don't like some of his reads. HS' 1007 is not that bad. Townreads Grey
(though I do highly doubt they're on a scumteam). Don't get the Alisae read, gotta actually read 1097. In general
the reads are based on how much sense players make - not sure if that shows scum/town intent.
1097 ok I guess this could be town. I don't think it's too arguable than an Alisae lynch would be pro-town in
some respects.
Dude I can't deal with Wraith's playstyle. He doesn't even link posts.
2314 why is he scumreading Gin now? 1758 (ok, I can see this) and the vig claim. Given that Gin was actually
fakeclaiming I guess I can see this. But you've been saying Gin is the voice of reason all game and now a post from
AA and Gin's claim that you don't believe transform him from TOP TOWNREAD to SCUMREAD… a little fishy
Hmm. Wraith insists on a Gin lynch a lot. Could be that he believes the claim and wants to push the Vig lynch
through.
Disclaimer, I am skimming. Eyes are getting tired.
Census. What was the percentage of people who believed Gin vs people who didn't? Clearly he was lynched so.
Dunnstral's 2753 is pinging me.
2980 grossssssss why is Alisae town now?? This renews the idea of Wraith+Greyslot scumteam. 2980 honestly
looks like the reads you'd get if you knew it wasn't multiball.
Taking a break bc sleep.

TL;DR Wraith might be town. But I don't like 119 at all and there are enough weird poorly justified switches in opinion to give me pause. Could be explained by Wraith's constant missing a lot and catching up, or that could be a built-in excuse for having reads on the periphery.

SEVERA TAKE FUCKING NOTES THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE A CASE

I don't like this at all. As annoying as Ali's tone is, she's right. Echo has been taking a stance on Wraith: Wraith is not scummy and nobody has made a case (until Mort). But Severa has made a case; in fact, a large portion of my case comes from Severa. So Echo either
1. doesn't understand the case
2. doesn't think it legitimately shows scum intent or
3. understands it but doesn't think it overrides whatever towny things Wraith has done.

In each case there's a burden on Echo that he hasn't fulfilled. In 1. he should work to understand Severa's case instead of yelling over and over that there is no case. In 2. he should explain why, but since 2. implies ~1. I don't think 2. is the case. In 3. he should explain why Wraith is town (what Ali said).

I don't agree with telling players how they should play but completely disregarding the reasons a wagon has formed is not pro-town.

You keep saying he's shown a case, but I read through his ISO and didn't see shit for a case. Show me the case please...

[EchoVision]

Considering that my predecessor vigged one scumfuck, I don't see why the vig is being a detriment to town.

Wait, so if your predecessor shot texcat, then neither mafia team went through with a night kill??????????

that's weird as fuck...?

[EchoVision]

How hillarious would it be if the mod was just making us think it was multiball?

I've seen moderators do that before. That might actually explain why there was only one kill last night. I don't think both scum teams would accurately role block each other.

but the one kill was by you?

[EchoVision]

I don't believe the vig claim.

Something tells me that scum made that claim to make sure I don't get doc protection.

for once i actually agree with you on something... that vig claim is weird as fuck to me and it's making me uneasy.

[EchoVision]

also mort, it's not that i don't understand his case against wraith, it's that i never saw a case against wraith to understand. but i'm sure yours is sufficient, so i'll go reread yours

[EchoVision]

I believe the claim

Wraith I thought my scumreading you was evident. I just pause since I don't know if a scummer would put so much analytical effort into the catch up walls.

Rebbe explain kyouko vote please. If your claim is true I also scumread Kyouko but I'm not sure why you do.

you believe that neither mafia faction got a kill last night??

[EchoVision]

Wraith

30 so no RVS vote to start. I never like when people decline to RVS in their first post but it's prob NAI
119 when I read Debi it was CLEAR to me that she was newb and pulled a ratio out of nowhere. It's one of the
reasons I strongly townread the slot. Scum doesn't come up with an absurd hypothetical ratio and spend
paragraphs analyzing the math around it when scum knows how many people are on their team. Wraith
assumed two things:
1. that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge and because of this
2. that the setup was multiball
That the setup is actually multiball could be confbias but I do agree with Severa here. Why would town ever
think that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge? 9/19 is absurd and everyone including Wraith pointed this out.
Yet Wraith, rather than doing what (?) Creature (? Don't remember who this was might have been Pine) did
and repeat "Adapt" 30 times, took Debi at face value. This belies a paranoia that I don't think is town.
Arguments against this are essentially "But Wraith has done towny things" and "This is reachy" so I'm
keeping these in mind as I read.
121 Wraith continues to maintain that Debi has foreknowledge. It is not a possibility in Wraith's mind that Debi
is newb and has no idea what she is talking about.
126 more of Wraith's not allowing that Debi is newb.
130 Wraith allows that Debi might be newb.
144 Ircher says 'yo dude you're assumin a lot and it ain't helpful' Wraith says 'nah it is helpful bro'
488 starts off towny. Alisae's vote was awful. But I can see scum!Wraith making that post assuming Alisae is
not on his scumteam. Especially without even a vote, just like 'yo look at this scummery!' He then goes on to say
he doesn't like rb's entrance but doesn't say why (for the record, I've seen town rb enter other games in a very
similar way) and he townleans Echo and Grey. Echo+Wraith is Severa's proposed scumteam and Grey is
confscum, so /shrug idk imma keep reading.
621 is grosss accusing now conftown rb of a scumslip and then spending two paragraphs speculating about
multiball. I get that multiball/no multiball is part of the basis for his rb vote, but that honestly makes it worse
for me. Maybe I am bad but as town I wasn't even thinking about multiball before it was confirmed.
622 does Grey make this vote if he and Wraith are a scumteam? Probably not, imo
676 Wraith has already said he thinks Alisae is lynchbait (621) and that he shouldn't lynch lynchbait that day,
but now he's 180ing and focusing on Ali's Pine townread - which is a bad townread yes but stuff like that is exactly
why Ali is considered lynchbait. He also recalls her Wraith vote which I get, it's a bad vote. But it feels like he
tosses it in with other pieces of 'evidence' as part of an Ali case, given that nobody latched onto it originally. He's
also explicitly fence sitting between rb and Ali wagons.
681 apologizes for Debi vote… NAI. I've seen both town and scum do this. Reading the rest of 681 it honestly looks
really town. I agree with a lot of what he says and it's really measured, objective, and gamesolvy. His reads are
confusing though for their lack of Dunn and LUV who had both been fairly active.
777 so this is a D7 flashwagon? Hm. Sitting out is NAI I think but I don't like using unmentionable player trends as
justification for a read. Not sure if it's actually anti-town.
1092 ugghhhh these walls I hate walls (knowing full well I am creating some - I would never ever do this
if I didn't replace in after 150 pages). Don't like some of his reads. HS' 1007 is not that bad. Townreads Grey
(though I do highly doubt they're on a scumteam). Don't get the Alisae read, gotta actually read 1097. In general
the reads are based on how much sense players make - not sure if that shows scum/town intent.
1097 ok I guess this could be town. I don't think it's too arguable than an Alisae lynch would be pro-town in
some respects.
Dude I can't deal with Wraith's playstyle. He doesn't even link posts.
2314 why is he scumreading Gin now? 1758 (ok, I can see this) and the vig claim. Given that Gin was actually
fakeclaiming I guess I can see this. But you've been saying Gin is the voice of reason all game and now a post from
AA and Gin's claim that you don't believe transform him from TOP TOWNREAD to SCUMREAD… a little fishy
Hmm. Wraith insists on a Gin lynch a lot. Could be that he believes the claim and wants to push the Vig lynch
through.
Disclaimer, I am skimming. Eyes are getting tired.
Census. What was the percentage of people who believed Gin vs people who didn't? Clearly he was lynched so.
Dunnstral's 2753 is pinging me.
2980 grossssssss why is Alisae town now?? This renews the idea of Wraith+Greyslot scumteam. 2980 honestly
looks like the reads you'd get if you knew it wasn't multiball.
Taking a break bc sleep.

TL;DR Wraith might be town. But I don't like 119 at all and there are enough weird poorly justified switches in opinion to give me pause. Could be explained by Wraith's constant missing a lot and catching up, or that could be a built-in excuse for having reads on the periphery.

I agree with the first little bit of this, when you were saying how he started out scummy cause of the confrontation with Debi. I believe I even put up a vote for him cause of this on d1. My issue with it is everything after that has pinged as town for me, and I haven't had an issue with anything else that he's posted.

[EchoVision]

Considering that my predecessor vigged one scumfuck, I don't see why the vig is being a detriment to town.

Wait, so if your predecessor shot texcat, then neither mafia team went through with a night kill??????????

that's weird as fuck...?

Went through with? Weird phrasing

just the first words that came to my head. when i start writing, i don't stop until i'm done typing even if it makes me sound stupid.

[EchoVision]

I believe the claim

Wraith I thought my scumreading you was evident. I just pause since I don't know if a scummer would put so much analytical effort into the catch up walls.

Rebbe explain kyouko vote please. If your claim is true I also scumread Kyouko but I'm not sure why you do.

you believe that neither mafia faction got a kill last night??

I townread debislot and don't see why scum who is not under pressure would fakeclaim vig knowing there was only 1 nightkill.

very true... I trust the slot, i just don't trust the claim...

[EchoVision]

Echo explain to me the perfect, believable vig claim.

tl;dr me getting a message that says hey fucker you're vig

[EchoVision]

You saying that worries me. You should have little idea what happened at night. Even if you're a protective PR that would explain only 1 scum nightkill and any number of things could explain the other one.

I don't have any idea what happened at night. That's why it worries me that there was only one kill that was a supposed vig kill. We've already established that there is two separate mafia factions. At night, what do mafia factions do? They kill people. If this vig got the only kill, what happened with the TWO mafia kills that night? One being blocked is believable. A lucky roleblock, or a lucky doc I get it. But that happening twice?? I just don't think it's likely...

[EchoVision]

Dunn returned a guilty on someone, who was it again?

was a fake cop claim saying that I got a guilty result back, which is one of my main reasons for my vote on him

[EchoVision]

You saying that worries me. You should have little idea what happened at night. Even if you're a protective PR that would explain only 1 scum nightkill and any number of things could explain the other one.

I don't have any idea what happened at night. That's why it worries me that there was only one kill that was a supposed vig kill. We've already established that there is two separate mafia factions. At night, what do mafia factions do? They kill people. If this vig got the only kill, what happened with the TWO mafia kills that night? One being blocked is believable. A lucky roleblock, or a lucky doc I get it. But that happening twice?? I just don't think it's likely...

Statistically, probably not. Why do you think Rebbe claimed?

that's where i'm fucked in my brain that barely exists... i've got absolutely no clue.

[EchoVision]

Slick's ISO is 19 posts long.
AA's ISO is 32 posts long.

Your point?

They're lurking hard.

Or they're not invested.

Why do you think activity alone is indicative of alignment?

If you're right about the non investment, could they have forgotten about the night phase and forgotten to put in their night kills?? That would explain a lot tbh...

[EchoVision]

alisae knows all of this...they're just a scumbag

Was there ever a push for an Alisae PL?

there was an attempt, i'm pretty sure texcat was on it which is one of my reasons for alisae town lean

[EchoVision]

Wraith, Drealmers, Texcat, and Pine had attempted to do a quick lynch on Alisae on D1. Texcat, we already know, flipped as scum. So is there a possibility that Wraith, drealmerz, texcat, and pine are a team? Or at least some of them are part of a team??

PEdit: true.

[EchoVision]

Like I legit think you are trying to pocket rb.

I must not understand what "pocket" means. Or one of us doesn't??

I thought it was like when a mobster has the police sergeant in his pocket, meaning the police sergeant will do what the mobster tells him to. But Pine isn't trying to tell Rb what to do, it looks exactly the opposite to me. Pine is asking Rb what to do. I hate it when people throw around jargon that I don't understand.

And it bothers me that Alisae threw in the word "legit" here. It's as if she's admitting that her other posts are not what she legitimately thinks.

VOTE: Alisae

okay so this was his reason for a vote on you. shitty reason, alisae isn't red maf. still could be blue, but i don't think he is.

You and Texacat are scum together. No doubt about that.

That is my case btw.

LMAO. That's quite a case.

Can we lynch this already? No matter what Ircher thinks, lynchbait not= town. We're going to have to lynch this sooner rather than later.

again him trying to go for your lynch

Texcat your posts are making your predecessor look bad... the first and last ones in your ISO are the only good ones

????? whatever

I'm not voting Drealm toDay, chicken pictures or not. If we're not going to lynch Alisae, and this would my preference by far, I need to go back and look at Gin again. Back in a bit.

drealm + texcat scum buds??

Gin I've said this multiple times, Texcat.
>They are my strongest scumread.
>Grey came off to me as not playing his towngame.
>They think they're lynchbait when they aren't
>Their reasoning for voting me is very weak.

I know that it is pointless to defend myself against these lies and shit posting. But Grey is not here to defend himself any longer and I feel like you are making an easy smudge on him. Let's look at your reads on him when he was here.

Spoiler: Alisae town reads Grey

Final reads before I go take a shower, go to sleep, and then wake up to find out that I got lynched.

Town: rb, Grey, Uzi, Gin, Pine, Echo, Debi, Zach
Scum: Kyouko, Creature, Wraith, Dunn, and maybe Ircher
Null: Everyone else.

Your logic makes sense Grey so you're town.

Can you explain what it is about Grey that suddenly made you decide that this was not his town game?
I never said I was lynchbait. I'm tempted to think that this is a purposeful lie to indict me, but I think you just misread something. I said that you were lynchbait, as you've proudly admitted.

Alisae is never going to be a town read for me. This is opportunistic and malicious shit posting.

I'm not going to talk after this point because who I shoot is based on what ya'll come up with (with my authority being supreme but hey gotta satiate that ego).

The two questions in case you forget are:

Shooting Pool: All Alone, Zach, Slick, Echo, Debi, and Texcat

Question 1: Out of the shooting pool, who would you want shot the most?

Question 2: Out of the shooting pool, who would you want shot the least?

1. Echo, Debi
2. Zach, Tex

But any pool that leaves out Alisae is shit.

this kinda confirms mort and I aren't red. mort, you replaced debi right?
Also, I wish i knew his reasoning behind him not wanting to shoot zach but it's too late for that now.

Titus, why are you pushing the Slick lynch? Why not one of the existing candidates?

Gin was promising a reads list when I subbed in. We never saw it.

@mod, VC please

why was he against the slick lynch?? could just be because of him being scum and wanting to end the day as quickly as possible, but idk. I'm probably reading this shit too in depth.

Anybody who thinks that I should be shot or lynched currently, I'd like to here your reasoning.

And this is why....

Debi plz.
rb is confirmed town and Gin claimed vig.
and Grey got replaced.
Just re-read the game when you get a chance.

And I'm not trying to start a slick wagon anymore, Titus is -_-

because you're not even trying to read the thread or keep up. At least you could sheep one of your town reads.

Like I legit think you are trying to pocket rb.

I must not understand what "pocket" means. Or one of us doesn't??

I thought it was like when a mobster has the police sergeant in his pocket, meaning the police sergeant will do what the mobster tells him to. But Pine isn't trying to tell Rb what to do, it looks exactly the opposite to me. Pine is asking Rb what to do. I hate it when people throw around jargon that I don't understand.

And it bothers me that Alisae threw in the word "legit" here. It's as if she's admitting that her other posts are not what she legitimately thinks.

VOTE: Alisae

I still think that Alisae admitted that she had been posting not what she legitimately thought. She says here that she legitimately thinks. That implies to me that her other posts were not what she legitimately thinks. I think that's a scum tell.

[and one of us still doesn't understand "pocket"]

again here's him against alisae.

[EchoVision]

Also is 4v4v11 possible?

idk, i was thinking about it and I think it would be d3 lylo. Do the scum teams have to be even or could it be 4v3v12?

[EchoVision]

idk why i had 2649 in there btw my bad

[EchoVision]

Also is 4v4v11 possible?

idk, i was thinking about it and I think it would be d3 lylo. Do the scum teams have to be even or could it be 4v3v12?

nevermind, only accounted for 1 maf kill each night. would be d2 lylo.

[EchoVision]

Oh... who replaced debi???

[EchoVision]

yeah i like mort he's town. lets go play tf2 so i can pocket you even more

[EchoVision]

4543 is a bad post

you're a bad post

[EchoVision]

Nah, EchoVision is my favorite lurker.

am i considered a lurker with 224 posts??

[EchoVision]

I don't remember tex pushing for a PL on me.
I remember Gin pushing a PL on me.
Also Severa has Pine's slot currently.

This is the reason I made 4543 or whatever it was. He didn't remember texcat pushing a lynch on him, so I went and showed it. It was to back up what I had said earlier about Alisae probably not being scum. I went through the ISO and found more that I thought should be noted so I noted it. More than two sentences, oh fucking well

[EchoVision]

Nah, EchoVision is my favorite lurker.

am i considered a lurker with 224 posts??

Hey, you were considered a lurker some time before.

yeah, had shit going on. Now I'm off cause midterms so I'll be a lot less lurky the next few days.

[EchoVision]

MortField, hopefully you aren't thinking of lynching someone that looks associated with texcat.

i am. either that or dunn

[EchoVision]

or maybe severa or maybe kyuoko

[EchoVision]

I decided to ISO Texcat and see if I could find anything
When Gin faked Vig Tex said that she didn't want Zach shot.
She also said she wanted Debi shot.
Maybe we should we look at Zach again?

I think I pointed that out in what I had said. If not, I definitely meant to point it out.

[EchoVision]

From Dunn and Zach, Dunn looks town and Zach looks scum.

Is your money being long worth yo lifespan being shorter

I decided to ISO Texcat and see if I could find anything
When Gin faked Vig Tex said that she didn't want Zach shot.
She also said she wanted Debi shot.
Maybe we should we look at Zach again?

I think I pointed that out in what I had said. If not, I definitely meant to point it out.

That's dumb. Not sure why you guys are taking flipped scum's "reads" at face value, considering half of scum's job is to misdirect. It shows surface level thinking or intentionally sloppy work.






Even before he mentioned me, as of late Alisae has either been derping hard or making scum posts.

I haven't said anything about Rebbe's claim, I'm still way back at why he felt it was necessary to do it in the first place.

called us dumb. discredit. scum claim. fake ass mother fucker lynch this shit

*obvious sarcasm is obvious*

[EchoVision]

From Dunn and Zach, Dunn looks town and Zach looks scum.

Is your money being long worth yo lifespan being shorter

I decided to ISO Texcat and see if I could find anything
When Gin faked Vig Tex said that she didn't want Zach shot.
She also said she wanted Debi shot.
Maybe we should we look at Zach again?

I think I pointed that out in what I had said. If not, I definitely meant to point it out.

That's dumb. Not sure why you guys are taking flipped scum's "reads" at face value, considering half of scum's job is to misdirect. It shows surface level thinking or intentionally sloppy work.






Even before he mentioned me, as of late Alisae has either been derping hard or making scum posts.

I haven't said anything about Rebbe's claim, I'm still way back at why he felt it was necessary to do it in the first place.

called us dumb. discredit. scum claim. fake ass mother fucker lynch this shit

*obvious sarcasm is obvious*

Your drealmerz impression could use some owrk. try CAPITALS

FUCK YOU discredit again.

PLS HANG THIS SHIT FEST

[EchoVision]

@mod: can we please get a vote count??

[EchoVision]

okay thank you <3

[EchoVision]

Cop can check someone like drealmerz or echo or Wraith

He said this on d1, which causes his cop claim to be completely fake. Why would he say in chat for a cop to check these people if he was a cop???

He wouldn't.

I'm on my phone but I'm going through his iso now. might not finish but I will eventually.

fuck you and your meta shit I hate that

PEOPLE CHANGE

from clueless newbie to guy shouting profanities and acting like the stuff

what's the point in calling me out for saying fuck unless you're trying to build a case on me with nothing

Whow as the one who said if it's multiball wraith is scum? Why aren't you voting him?

VOTE: Wraith

then, after realizing his case was ass, he changed to Wraith for this reason. ew.

Alright let's get him

VOTE: SlickDilinger

Now he changes his vote but wait! there's more!

VOTE: Zachstralkita

here's another vote change 4 posts later

More like 8 to 10 pages

Doubt you get lynched that fast. If you think votes will be off you by then fat chance: I make it a point to only vote people when I'm set on lynching them. Vote's not coming off

so much for this post... "votes not coming off" you seem to have a lot of flexibility with your votes considering what I quoted before

Alright let's get slick or wraith

VOTE: Wraith

"I'm not changing my vote"

What Gin failed to account for is that he's revealing who is and isn't a real vig

@Zach really though, you not believing gins claim was baseless and I can only hope you're not a pr when I push you
Why were you discrediting gin and his claim?

claiming a Zach push, isn't your vote on Wraith???

I'd be willing to lynch echo

okay now he's starting to move over to me. now I leave. I'll be back.

What's the right path?

That's what I'm figuring out. Prob lynch wraith vig rb and investigate whoever; and lynch echo tomorrow

why the fuck would you vig rb he's an ic...

willing to lynch echo after that recent display.

why cause I actually have reasons to scum read you and you don't have shit on me?

I don't want to wade through your posts anymore

wanted to vig Alisae because of his posts... that reason is shittier than your non existant reason for me

VOTE: Wraith

This is a better wagon.

Titus, let's deal. If I'm wrong I will vote SlickDilinger with you. If I'm right, nothing besides ego points.

This is scum and I need your vote to lynch it. I am superconfident in you being town.

It's funny how you haven't elaborated why I'm scum outside of "This is scum"

they haven't done that about me either, just claimed I'm scummy

wraith can you see dunnstral lynch today or should I move to kyouko?

Dunn's not getting lynched if I can help it

What do you have against the dunn wagon??

btw i forgot this game existed since my last post... do you guys want me to keep going through his iso or no??

[EchoVision]

HEY FAKED THE RESULT ON HIM, MORRT

Is this supposed to be self-explanatory

Dunn faked a cop claim, which he claimed by saying that he got a guilty for me. As the person who recieved the role pm with my non mafia role, I know that this is complete bullshit and its just like Wraith. why would you claim something you're not...

[EchoVision]

What Gin failed to account for is that he's revealing who is and isn't a real vig

@Zach really though, you not believing gins claim was baseless and I can only hope you're not a pr when I push you
Why were you discrediting gin and his claim?

Alright lads, I figure this is a good a time as any to mention my own investigate guilty on

Echovision

... let's lynch

Echovision

and laugh at rb

Nothing failed

Dunn, help me understand what you're doing right now.

being dumb apparently if echo is town

You're not excused.
Echo's defense checks out -and- is verifiable by Alisae.

Why are you suddenly pushing echo? Your play is survivalistic as fuck.

You latch on to no-lynch to not die. No traction. Then you latch on to slick-lynch to not die. No traction. Then you latch on to echo-lynch. You'll get on any wagon that isn't your own at this point, even though you literally said earlier 'Yeah I don't even care I'll just self-hammer!'

Town vig that wants to self-hammer doesn't say they'll self-hammer. They wait until they can self hammer, and then self-hammer.
Town vig doesn't claim at l-3/4. Town vig does all they can to keep the heat off of them and then claims at L-1 if they must.
Scum/SK does everything they can to keep a wagon off of them, and claims that they'll self-hammer if they have to but they never actually will.
Fucking lynch this.

got bored so I went back through the iso and found this stuff for you

[EchoVision]

yeh they could be scums together fosho

yeah the hole in that strategy is that wraith is a strong town player down the line and we need him for later in the game and he is not NEARLY FUCKING SCUMMY AT ALL to be a lynch consideration today and the push on him is BOGUS, scum just want him dead because they fear his analytical threat

I don't consider a trade of town!Wraith lynch today for guaranteed scum!Severa lynch tomorrow a bad trade, but maybe I don't know Wraith well enough.

I am a way more valuable player to town than Wraith will ever be.

not if you turn out to flip scum

[EchoVision]

I am a way more valuable player to town than Wraith will ever be.

already proven false by content

OH GET BONED

[EchoVision]

I mean 2500+ is shit posting and useless shit to be fair

[EchoVision]

Reading Dunn makes me think that it's site meta to play like shit to not get scumread.

Yes, I've heard folks say that this is culture around here in the past.

boy you gotta learn to stay active... stop posting once after every prod and give this game some attention...

[EchoVision]

Low hanging fruit scum is Echo. Everyone in this game realizes that the slot is scum or will as soon as Wraith flips and their associatives are dragged into the open.

You are dangerous scum who may end up endgaming or you are town who has helped scum winconditions the entire game. IE, a perfect vig shot.

wtf is low hanging fruit scum

[EchoVision]

okay fuck it if Wraith flips green we lynch severa tomorrow, deal?

VOTE: Wraith

[EchoVision]

UGH FUCK YOU GUYS

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SEVERA

[EchoVision]

Okay now that I have some bloody time I can explain things. Quote wall incoming.

Why did you out creature? I'm doubting that hard recently, I'm guessing you picked up on the same crumb I did.

Because outlining my suspicions of Creature's role are integral to understanding why I investigated Titus over Alisae N1.

I'll kill scum myself then.

I took this post for a Vig softclaim, especially after the series preceding it and ESPECIALLY after the one that followed:

Investigatives

Don't waste your precious checks on lurkers (unless you're some tracking-like role who thinks lurker will kill). They won't give info anyway.

I had already been getting PR vibes from Creature based on his playstyle - playing cards close to the chest - and my conclusion of "likely Vig" was due to him constantly pushing lurkers D1. I suspected it was either an attempt to provoke activity from the lurkers and thus separate town!lurkers from scum!lurkers, or to bait scum into an obvious mislynch wagon.

My suspicions of Creature being the Vig are also why I didn't believe Gin's claim whatsoever (combined with Gin loudly shouting about who he intended to "shoot"):

Yeah and it's very obviously fake. AA said it best:

I'm just using my vig shot on you, I dont care if I die claiming a power role, you're a worthy shot.

I'll self hammer at this point but lynch these slots lynched with fire after I'm dead.

Remember, the those 3 pushers of my lynch, also Echo. Let's end Day 1 please.

VOTE: Gin

SELF-HAMMERING IS NOT A TOWN VIG PLAY

SELF-VOTING IS NOT A TOWN VIG PLAY

FAKECLAIM DETECTED, EVERYONE GET YOUR VOTES ON GIN

I also think Zach's case is a decent one when (finally) viewed altogether. And those aren't the only two reasons.

It's tough because the wagon on Alisae is starting to gain steam again and rightfully so. But I'm putting more priority on the terrible, obvious fakeclaim.

Unvote

Vote: Gin

AM I GOING COMPLETELY MAD?!

So the claimed Vig threatens to use his shot on HS the following night, and then actively pushes and votes for his own lynch? And then we're

telegraphing his Vig shot in advance?

In the theoretical scenario where Gin is telling the truth and he is the Vig, and he believes he is shooting scum in Echo, why should we possibly believe scum will just allow this to happen? If we're speculating Vigs and SKs and god-knows-whatever, is it so much of a stretch to speculate that the scum have a Roleblocker handy?

How is this

POSSIBLY

pro-town activity?

and also why I'm currently

very

suspicious of Debi/Rebbe's Vig claim.

I suspected Titus picked up on the same softclaim and vibe, and that he was softclaiming a protective role, after this post:

I'll probably die N1 anyway.

Not if I have anything to say about it.

So I had a dilemma - investigate Alisae or Titus? I picked Titus because to me that would metaphorically confirm two birds with one stone in my mind. Turns out it confirmed three with one stone because the Grey/texcat flip made me firmly believe Alisae is town now.

In hindsight that was probably crucially flawed logic, but w/e. I think my scumreads at the start of the day illustrate my train of thought well enough:

Took a look at Grey/texcat's ISOs. One big thing I can take away from it is that my townread on Creature is cemented and I'm reversing on Alisae. Grey in particular did a lot to try to undermine those two players (as well as rb) early on.

Deftown

rb
Creature
Titus

Likely Town

Alisae
HS
Dunnstral

Neutral/Murky

Zach
Ircher
AA
Kyouko
Debi
drealmerz

Scumreads

Uzi
Echo
Pine
Slick

MortFeld recently pointed out a pretty crucial post Kyouko made:

General question directed mostly at Titus but any experienced players: If there's a (1-shot) BP in this setup is it town or scum?

For the record, I've been thinking about this one a lot. @kyouko why did you ask this?

Holy shit how did I miss that?

Which is pretty clearly Kyouko fishing for PRs and bumped up my 99% certainty of Scum!Kyouko to 100%. That he's asking this question makes me think there are now two possibilities:

1. Kyouko's scumteam shot Creature and think Titus protected him
2. Kyouko's scumteam shot Titus and suspect he is BP

I REALLY like this post. That seems like too complicated of a reason for scum to make up out of nowhere... I've still got a little to read but I might switch over to bdsm_tokyo soon...

[EchoVision]

You are very clearly incorrect on Severa, not only because of my read on Severa but my read on how you came to scumread Severa.
That's a vanity wagon if I ever saw one, boys.

I'm gonna go here.
VOTE: Creature
Your scumgame evolved momentarily, but it's fallen apart again. Points for effort.

So even after you town read on Wraith, you still think that severa was right about him being the gunsmith?????

[EchoVision]

Okay, I'm vigilante and I have a plausible reason to believe there's another vig around. That's enough information for scum.

I'm assuming that Creature is an even night vig and rebbe is an odd night vig???

[EchoVision]

wot

Wraith came out as a cop which you seemed to believe (which i believe too, nothing against you on that) But the gunsmith (supposedly severa) had said that Wraith was armed with a gun. That means his claim is bullshit because Wraith is a cop and cops don't have fuckin guns sir...

[EchoVision]

Cops get a guilty from gunsmiths.

I've also stated reason to believe that Severa is VT faking gunsmith, but I'm not entirely confident in that, I'm just spitballing there.

oh i knew that

[EchoVision]

Reading through now. I really do not buy Creature's vig claim.

@Creature: Did you shoot last night? If so, who did you target?

If this game is mb and there are 2 vigs (I highly doubt it) why was there only one kill last night? I think creature is bullshitting.

creature is most likely an even night vig where rebbe is an odd night vig, last night was even night, so he didn't shoot anyone

[EchoVision]

There's no cop we're still lynching him let's go people.

fuck you scum

VOTE: severa

[EchoVision]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH
I'm Retarded.
Why are we lynching Kyouko over Echo again, or can I find THAT as well by reading?
VOTE: EchoVision

why are we lynching me over kyouko again, or can i find THAT as well by reading?

[EchoVision]

VOTE: Wraith

I'll take care of either echo or ssbm tonight.

okay shoot me pls get a green flip

[EchoVision]

I AM BEING UNPLEASANT AND SPITEFUL. DO YOU KNOW WHY I AM BEING UNPLEASANT AND SPITEFUL? WRAITH IS STILL ALIVE.

shut the fuck up and let people talk oh my lord

[EchoVision]

I am absolutely as stubborn as you are and withdrew from the thread because you cannot be reasoned with. We can do Echo. Not Wraith.

i'd prefer you lynch me over wraith, vt is useless compared to a cop and i'd rather keep a cop around for the sake of the town

[EchoVision]

Gross.

Btw echo it's clear you're not reading so idk why you're being sarcastic about that

just fucking read through... when i read i go from where i last left off to current state so i don't read all the fuck over

[EchoVision]

OH>

fai R C op

wtf is this it looks like drealmerz typed it

[EchoVision]

Gross.

Btw echo it's clear you're not reading so idk why you're being sarcastic about that

just fucking read through... when i read i go from where i last left off to current state so i don't read all the fuck over

I was specifically referring to you posting about Rebbe being odd night

because i read from where i last left off to the end... when i had said what i said i didn't see his fullvig claim

[EchoVision]

Severa was destined to replace pine from the beginning

Pedit: and that's why I said you're not reading. Or at least posting before you read.

that's what i just said i did!!! i read from where i last left off to the most recent most and comment stuff as i see fit for what i have read.........

[EchoVision]

ahahaah fuck you guys i got page top i'm so cool

[EchoVision]

Ohhhh RC is role cop. Me dumb

I'm ignoring you. You made a comment irrelevant to the gamestate because you hadn't read. That annoys me.

holy shit how hard is it to get this through your thick fucking skull...... i was in the middle of reading and i posted oml

[EchoVision]

I'm ignoring you.

okay ignorant little banana fucker

[EchoVision]

Titus, this is a game where you're so locked into one version of what's been going on that you're absolutely blind to how little the gamestate complies with it.

says the one who's had tunnel vision on wraith for half the fucking game

[EchoVision]

if he flips town, severa you're fucking dead...

VOTE: wraith

[EchoVision]

why are we voting me when I hammered a scum?...

[EchoVision]

I was undecided whether to shoot Severa or SlickDilinger tbh.

Severa led us to a scum lynch why were you going to shoot him? I'm so confused at what's happening in everyone's fucking heads...

Edit: well one person died from red and one person died from blue so yeah I'm pretty aware that it's multiball... if I were scum why the fuck would I do that hammer it's obviously drawn a lot of attention to me... that would just be straight out dumb...

Edit2: was going to ask him about that in a second

[EchoVision]

why are we voting me when I hammered a scum?...

Is this why you're town?

no I'm town cause I got a message in the beginning of the game saying a a townie...

[EchoVision]

Well I didn't see it till you pointed it out to me Creature.
And he's in my lynch pool for lieing about that but I wanna see what Severa has to respond to that.

I did what I had to do to get scum lynched.

well I guess it worked... but no comment on what your actual role is now that we know you were bullshitting the rc claim?

[EchoVision]

One of the vigs said that they had reason to believe there was another vig in the game, correct? Which one?

Yeah it was creature because he isn't a full vig he's just an even night vig (I think)

[EchoVision]

lol if it was an SK tripleball set up there would have been 4 nks unless one team didn't night kill or something else happened.

and if there were an SK, two maf factions and a full vig on n1 I'm sure there would have been more than 1 night kill

[EchoVision]

Btw I just got fired so starting tomorrow I'll be able to spend more time with y'all

aww sorry to hear that Mort

[EchoVision]

I think it's pretty fucking likely that a shot was made at me and the presence of a strongman makes it pretty fucking likely that I would have been docced.

So we're probably looking at

Blue team shot me
Red team shot RB
Vig/SKs shot Slick/SSBM

what do you think prevented the shot??

[EchoVision]

I'm stupid, didn't see docced. don't mind me just putting my head through a wall..

[EchoVision]

your shooting theory is making sense. could red have aimed at rb both nights but rb got docced n1 so didn't die?

[EchoVision]

Where are we getting 2 vigs from

creature claimed even-night vig and rebbe claimed fullvig yesterday

EDIT: agreed. you were a scummy little shit sev until he flipped blue now i'm gonna sheep the fuck out of your votes other than this one

VOTE: Dunnstral

[EchoVision]

I think it's pretty fucking likely that a shot was made at me and the presence of a strongman makes it pretty fucking likely that I would have been docced.

So we're probably looking at

Blue team shot me
Red team shot RB
Vig/SKs shot Slick/SSBM

Nobody shot you

what makes you so certain that nobody shot him??

[EchoVision]

good reason

[EchoVision]

Where are we getting 2 vigs from

creature claimed even-night vig and rebbe claimed fullvig yesterday

EDIT: agreed. you were a scummy little shit sev until he flipped blue now i'm gonna sheep the fuck out of your votes other than this one

VOTE: Dunnstral

Posts like this are why my vote doesn't leave you barring radical new into.

why, me saying i'm gonna follow sev's votes because he had a good read that I never caught onto till the last minute?

[EchoVision]

Dunn I'm still waiting for an answer on how you're so certain nobody tried to shoot severa after his fake claim on top of him helping to get of blues scum buddies fucked

[EchoVision]

That and the fact that you're tunneling on Dunn for a dumb reason.

What's so dumb about my reasons??

[EchoVision]

We lynched Gin D1 because of a fake claim. We got a little tiny wagon on sev for his fake claim, but Dunn's "reaction test cop claim" went un-noticed by damn near everyone

Edit: first off what's the p for in pedit? anyways yeah that's probably the biggest reason i'm still on him about it until he says why he faked a cop claim and kept going with it until he got called out on it cause people knew it was bullshit

[EchoVision]

I think it's pretty fucking likely that a shot was made at me and the presence of a strongman makes it pretty fucking likely that I would have been docced.

So we're probably looking at

Blue team shot me
Red team shot RB
Vig/SKs shot Slick/SSBM

Nobody shot you

seems pretty certain to me

[EchoVision]

I think it's pretty fucking likely that a shot was made at me and the presence of a strongman makes it pretty fucking likely that I would have been docced.

So we're probably looking at

Blue team shot me
Red team shot RB
Vig/SKs shot Slick/SSBM

Nobody shot you

seems pretty certain to me

wait... breakthrough... dunn lookout who watched over sev last night??

[EchoVision]

Wraith, Drealmers, Texcat, and Pine had attempted to do a quick lynch on Alisae on D1. Texcat, we already know, flipped as scum. So is there a possibility that Wraith, drealmerz, texcat, and pine are a team? Or at least some of them are part of a team??

PEdit: true.

I'd like to go back to this btw... Wraith AND Texcat have both flipped scum... different teams but still scum.

[EchoVision]

I think it's pretty fucking likely that a shot was made at me and the presence of a strongman makes it pretty fucking likely that I would have been docced.

So we're probably looking at

Blue team shot me
Red team shot RB
Vig/SKs shot Slick/SSBM

Nobody shot you

seems pretty certain to me

wait... breakthrough... dunn lookout who watched over sev last night??

Or he was stating his opinion

Idk if i were scum i would have shot the fuck out of sev last night tbh...

[EchoVision]

sev you replaced pine right??

[EchoVision]

That's all that means

well yeah. but I'd like to look at drealmerz slot a little closer which I'll probably do later tonight or tomorrow. Two people on the mini wagon flipped scum and that kinda raises some red flags about others on the wagon to me

edit: didn't you say you thought it was blue team who shot you yesterday? I hammered a blue member why do you think I'm blue

[EchoVision]

nice thoughts on the game lol

[EchoVision]

I like my creature vote. I think that the slot is probably SK. EchoVision is scum but everyone knows he's scum and he's going to get lynched sooner or later.

not even gonna comment on votes on me anymore cause my death is imminent... I'm not quite sure on there being an SK yet though. in a smite game so I'lltry to post every here and there

[EchoVision]

I think Titus could be scum along with Wraith.

was thinking about this a few days ago but forgot. He seemed so dead set on "no we're not lynching wraith blah blah blah." I'll go find examples when I finish reading if you guys would like.

[EchoVision]

I think Titus could be scum along with Wraith.

was thinking about this a few days ago but forgot. He seemed so dead set on "no we're not lynching wraith blah blah blah." I'll go find examples when I finish reading if you guys would like.

You're getting lynched down the line and you know it.

That's why I said a few posts ago I'm not even gonna bother with votes on me cause my death is imminent.

[EchoVision]

I'm going through titus' iso anyways fuck it

[EchoVision]

Creature, there are too many posts. Who are you voting? Baah.

I don't want to reward the hyper posters.

Why did you ask Creature here as opposed to RB who was confirmed as town at this point?

I'll probably die N1 anyway.

Not if I have anything to say about it.

Again what was with you and Creature d1?

Also I'd like to point out that Echovision keeps trying to discredit me and my Wraith push. I'm assuming that was the purpose of the 'trying to get into Titus's pants' comment.
He goes tomorrow.

We are not lynching Wraith today on your garbage. You want Wraith, bring good evidence that's worth letting near confirmed scum go and wrecking my VCA.

I can't really say much about this, cause I was just like this until the end of d2. Just wanted to quote it cause it says wraith.

I plan to read when I get home but why is Creature confscum?

Creature's scum for Dismantling the Slick wagon and 180ing on Wraith when the opportunity presented itself.

Okay I take back the Creature + Titus thing, unless scum theatre?

Mortfeld/Wraith/EchoVision is the blue scumteam.

No. Wraith and Mort are town.

Again, I agreed with his stance here at this point but obviously he was wrong about Wraith. Just quoted it cause it had to do with Wraith.

[EchoVision]

Cuz you know to me right now it feels like you're not mad at me for not following you, you're mad at me for having been right in not doing so.

Neither. I am mad at you for not trusting me or engaging me and putting your need for your lynch above truth and honesty and teamwork. You lied just to get your way. I can accept being wrong. I cannot accept liars and cheats.

P.S. My reads have usually been right when I do tunnel and tunnel far less often. I would be inclined to see you really felt that way, but I doubt it. It just reeks of you wanting control.

If I cannot trust you, I do not sheep you.

your read isn't right on me but oh well

[EchoVision]

Hey let's point out that Slick was townnn

Forgot about that. When I was going through Titus' ISO she had a lot against slick. Then again, who didn't...?

[EchoVision]

I don't want to fight in thread anymore.

lets step into the ring and fight then

the ONION RING



okay sorry for useless additions

[EchoVision]

ThinkBig, Creature, I need to get a Drealmerz shot from one of you or we need to lynch him today.

tbh i agree. I think a drealmerz flip would reveal a lot...

[EchoVision]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

[EchoVision]

ThinkBig, Creature, I need to get a Drealmerz shot from one of you or we need to lynch him today.

tbh i agree. I think a drealmerz flip would reveal a lot...

just throwing around interactions before you get lynched?

idk why you keep bringing up my lynch I've already stated that I know it's imminent...

[EchoVision]

Why is drealmerz sensible to u

well first off, he's just kind of lurky and isn't contributing much to the game. I feel like at this point, we can't have lurkers anymore. I'd also be down to lynch AA for the same reason.

Also, drealmerz wagons have come time and time again so if we get a flip from drealmerz I feel we can get a lot of information out of it.

[EchoVision]

Why is drealmerz sensible to u

also i'm blatant scum so i want everyone to die

obvious sarcasm is obvious

[EchoVision]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

scumplay

i'm getting lynched anyways why does it matter

[EchoVision]

Why is drealmerz sensible to u

also i'm blatant scum so i want everyone to die

obvious sarcasm is obvious

scumplay

[EchoVision]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

scumplay

i'm getting lynched anyways why does it matter

hehe scumplay

never noticed this but lol

echo if you are town you are playing on my team and right now you are not advancing my team's win condition

well i'm voting for my scum read so idk how i'm not advancing towns win condition

[EchoVision]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

scumplay

i'm getting lynched anyways why does it matter

hehe scumplay

never noticed this but lol

echo if you are town you are playing on my team and right now you are not advancing my team's win condition

well i'm voting for my scum read so idk how i'm not advancing towns win condition

Your scumreads are Dunn and D7? lol

But more to the point if all town ever did was vote their scumreads town would never win.

well the only real wagon out there is me and i'm not going to vote for myself so what would you like me to do??

[EchoVision]

Not sure. I'm gonna do some reading tomorrow. You've done reading too but your analysis is awful.

what can i say, i'm a shitty player

[EchoVision]

creature isn't a vig, fools

I agree

what would your opinions be on a Creature, Wraith, Titus scum team??

[EchoVision]

creature isn't a vig, fools

I agree

what would your opinions be on a Creature, Wraith, Titus scum team??

Wraith and Titus most likely. Creature being with them? Ehhhhh, maybe...

well the reason I included creature was because when Titus replaced in he seemed to be all buddy buddy with creature. then not too long ago when I asked about it, I wasn't sure if the answer came off as scum theater or not. you said how you don't think Creature is really vig, so I just thought it was a possibility. My votes all over today cause idk where to put it. my reason for drealmerz is stupid...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

I'm confident in this one.

[EchoVision]

I think he's scum.
TBH I haven't really been looking for who he's associated with.
If I had to give him a color I would probably say Red because I think Grey's attempt to push Creature way back then was maybe an attempt to distance?

I honestly don't see what Creature would get from fakeclaiming vig as town.

hadn't seen this when I posted. idk where I got the idea from but am okay to assume that each team has 3 members?

[EchoVision]

creature isn't a vig, fools

I agree

what would your opinions be on a Creature, Wraith, Titus scum team??

Wraith and Titus most likely. Creature being with them? Ehhhhh, maybe...

well the reason I included creature was because when Titus replaced in he seemed to be all buddy buddy with creature. then not too long ago when I asked about it, I wasn't sure if the answer came off as scum theater or not. you said how you don't think Creature is really vig, so I just thought it was a possibility. My votes all over today cause idk where to put it. my reason for drealmerz is stupid...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

I'm confident in this one.

You're voting Titus because you think Creature is scum and because Titus buddied Creature so you think Titus and Creature on the same scumteam? Let me know if this is off base.

And what is your reason for scumreading D7?

that's not my reasoning at all. If I were voting creature it would be for that reason, but my vote is on Titus. The reason for my vote on Titus as I pointed out a few posts ago with quotes and all that good shit was because of her interaction with Wraith. She was so set on not lynching Wraith but there really wasn't any reasoning behind it. What would be the reason other than scum pals? So you were on the right track but replace Creature with Wraith. Idk about creature. I'm going down to PA tomorrow so I'll probably read through his ISO on my way down there.

[EchoVision]

Don't talk to me about this set up spec stuff.
I'm clueless about it.

Also Echo, also I dunno if scum would be so obvious to buddy their scumbuddy.

true, especially someone like titus

[EchoVision]

Also Echo, also I dunno if scum would be so obvious to buddy their scumbuddy.

Not to mention that he's scumhunting by association despite both players involved still being alive.

wasn't how I was scum hunting but okay

[EchoVision]

why are we voting me when I hammered a scum?...

VOTE: Echo

Why are you trying to fake being confused here? You aren't confirmed town or even close to it so you're reaction to being wagoned here is quite poor. Scum hammer scum all the time and this is something you should be even more aware of considering it's multi-ball.

like I said not really caring about votes on me cause my death is imminent

[EchoVision]

fire avi there creature

Top 5.

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

Could you explain why you shifted focus from Titus to D7 here? I believe you are currently scum reading Severa so I don't understand why would you sheep him.

how the hell did you get the idea I was scum reading Severa...? now that rb is dead Severa and Alisae are my top two town reads...

[EchoVision]

Echo you're incoherent re: Titus, Creature, Wraith

okay. Wraith flipped scum. Titus was trying very hard to make a Wraith vote not go through. This leads me to believe Titus and Wraith are scum buddies. I'll explain the creature part tomorrow when I'm sure about his alignment.

edit: forgot to include Mort as a top town read too

[EchoVision]

drealm I still think you're scum too

[EchoVision]

I'm not liking severa at all. He lied about being a gunsmith and he lied about being a rolecop

He could still be red, but something about him is just yelling town to me

[EchoVision]

I'm not liking severa at all. He lied about being a gunsmith and he lied about being a rolecop

could be because I'm still in a single ball mentality but idk I have to fix that

[EchoVision]

I'm also not liking Titus. Especially after wraith faked cop and claimed an innocent on Titus. Lots of potential WIFOM to look at.

didn't even remember that until you pointed it out. why an innocent in Titus of all people?... I like you think...

OMG ECHOS BUDDYING THINK LET'S LYNCH HIM THATS SO SCUMMY OMG OMG HANG HIM

[EchoVision]

fire avi there creature

Top 5.

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

Could you explain why you shifted focus from Titus to D7 here? I believe you are currently scum reading Severa so I don't understand why would you sheep him.

how the hell did you get the idea I was scum reading Severa...? now that rb is dead Severa and Alisae are my top two town reads...

I skimmed but I got the idea that you were flipping your read on him based on your 5142, 5143, and 5172.

Why do you think D7 is scum?

well 5142 was me saying that if i were scum I would have shot the fuck out of him cause he figured out Wraith and if I were scum he would have gotten my scum buddy and I just wouldn't want him around anymore the way he's playing. but that's all if I were scum, which I'm not... lol

5172 was just me saying my opinions on him saying creature was SK. nothing against him in that, I just didn't believe that he was correct with that.

[EchoVision]

drealm I still think you're scum too

yeah I raelize that, but in that case I know you're wrong

and regardless, there are still problems with your reasoning in assuming because someone defends someone that then they're aligned

if you look through titus' iso (on mobile so I'm not quoting stuff. sorry!) towards the middle/end of d2 she kept trying to get severa to switch his vote from Wraith (who we all know is scum) to me. she never questioned me or anything and she didn't really seem to be scum hunting, just trying to take the focus off of Wraith and put the focus on to me. wasn't just the defense that made me scum read her, I should have been more specific.

btw Titus I'm sorry if I keep referring to you as he, force of habit. I know you aren't a he lol.

[EchoVision]

I was undecided whether to shoot Severa or SlickDilinger tbh.

So you expect me to believe that only one scum team killed?? Yeah. Bullshit

Severa thinks that blue tried killing him last night but severa got docced. we know Doc didn't heal rb, cause rb is kinda dead... and honestly idk who else doc would heal so I'm with severa on this.

[EchoVision]

I was undecided whether to shoot Severa or SlickDilinger tbh.

So you expect me to believe that only one scum team killed?? Yeah. Bullshit

Severa thinks that blue tried killing him last night but severa got docced. we know Doc didn't heal rb, cause rb is kinda dead... and honestly idk who else doc would heal so I'm with severa on this.

Good point. But at the same time, that gives me even more of a reason to scum read Severa. He got the doc off our IC and onto him so the IC could die. Yeah, I'm not liking Severa.

I think doc might have been thinking that they tried to kill rb already and that they'd give up but I definitely get what you're saying.

[EchoVision]

Holy shit fuck off guys. I did what I had to do to get scum lynched. Have a problem with my playstyle, fine, but you are a fucking tool if you think that I'm scum for it.

:/ People thinking you're scum for lying about having a role twice is not a stretch.

we already lynched Gin for that, and Wraith turned out to be lying about roles. so lying about roles doesn't sit so well with anyone in this game anymore...

[EchoVision]

^ what is your point

was backing you up saying that lying about roles is definitely a lynch able offense especially in our game lol

[EchoVision]

drealm I still think you're scum too

yeah I raelize that, but in that case I know you're wrong

and regardless, there are still problems with your reasoning in assuming because someone defends someone that then they're aligned

if you look through titus' iso (on mobile so I'm not quoting stuff. sorry!) towards the middle/end of d2 she kept trying to get severa to switch his vote from Wraith (who we all know is scum) to me. she never questioned me or anything and she didn't really seem to be scum hunting, just trying to take the focus off of Wraith and put the focus on to me. wasn't just the defense that made me scum read her, I should have been more specific.

btw Titus I'm sorry if I keep referring to you as he, force of habit. I know you aren't a he lol.

also, this was more reasoning behind my Titus case. idk if you noticed it and just disregarded it or just never noticed it

[EchoVision]

^ what is your point

was backing you up saying that lying about roles is definitely a lynch able offense especially in our game lol

Just realized this isn't even what I said.

forgot to put an and in there after backing you up

[EchoVision]

^ what is your point

was backing you up

AND

saying that lying about roles is definitely a lynch able offense especially in our game lol

Just realized this isn't even what I said.

I fixed it for you since you didn't understand what I meant by saying I forgot the word and in that spot

[EchoVision]

11 roles zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
skimmed the thread, will read more deeply in a sec

basic thoughts:
there's no such thing as a lynchable offense, i agree with the metric that severa may have taken questionable actions but in the end she didn't break any rules nor was she even incorrect. it would have taken a lot of effort to get me back on the wraith wagon after that cop claim, and if more people saw through her lies we'd probably have a really low chance of victory, especially after such a horrid night phase.
regardless of all that, i'd really much rather lynch scum, which severa isn't

creature sk i never considered, but it makes a lot of sense. still not lynching today.

idk about dreal, maybe i was stuck in a massive tunnel all along.
echo reads fucking rancidly today.

uzi, mort, titus, severa, where should i vote and why? first dibs!

i forgot AA was even in this game lmao

not by the mod by the players. am I really that unclear with everything I say that I have to go in depth and explain it so many times???

[EchoVision]

It isn't that easy to cram a SK on a normal game with already two factions.

it would pretty much be the same as a full vig just evil instead of town. I don't see it as impossible or even unlikely. I'm in the car on my way to PA for 2 hours so Im going through your iso

[EchoVision]

The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.

Singleball.

obviously on mobile cause I'm in the car so I'll be annotating notes like this. how did this come off as single ball to you? all threats to me comes off as multiball.

to me, "all threats have been eliminated" enhances the possibility of there being an SK in my mind.

edit: thanks going to splash lagoon with my cousin and aunt lol

[EchoVision]

The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.

Singleball.

How does that confirm singleball? (Although, that is badly worded imo.)

Oh nvm, that does not confirm singleball.

when asked about it you switched your stance so quickly and easily. was that just cause of a reread or what sparked the change in stance

edit: probably. feel free to hammer.

edit2: Yeah, but idk. I'm thinking SK from that but idk why. you're probably right though.

edit3: I think creature has like 1 vote on him

[EchoVision]

The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.

Singleball.

How does that confirm singleball? (Although, that is badly worded imo.)

Oh nvm, that does not confirm singleball.

Care to explain your original logic in the first place?

It says the game ends when all threats to town were eliminated (town win) or it couldn't happen (town loss), but say there's:
3 mafia alive
2 townies alive
1 BP SK alive

At this point town pretty much already lost, though, then the mafia would win even if the SK were alive?

Then I realised the game would still go on at that point.

you even brought up the possibility of an SK in the very beginning of d1. why are you against there being one now?

[EchoVision]

Grey, don't be surprised if you don't make it to Day 3.

what was going to stop him?

[EchoVision]

Okay then:
I hate being scum
I hate and react pretty badly for pressure as either alignment
If I am pressured as town I usually attack someone who's pressuring me because I believe scum wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to lynch me as I am harder to lynch later in the game

youve been being pressured but haven't really gone after anyone other than severa and that was just in your last few posts. you seem to be responding okay so far for the little bit of pressure you're getting

[EchoVision]

I'm not letting you escape either if I turn out be a vigilante or some other strong power role.

this seems like fake stupidity. you know your role, why are you saying "if I turn out to be a vig"

[EchoVision]

At least I won't eat the first NK.

or any nk cause you're BP SK?

[EchoVision]

okay you're responding well and I like your posts on p1 of your iso. you're off the hook for now. When I was reading through your p1, I noticed a decent amount against all alone and he has like 12 posts and I don't like that at all. I'd either like am all alone lynch or an all alone vig shot tonight. I don't want him left alive if he's just going to lurk like a mofo

[EchoVision]

OH YAY RAIN DROP DROP TOP FUCK YOU ALL I WANT PAGE TOP

[EchoVision]

echovision is just taking shit out of context in the shallowest way possible
every point he raises has an easy logical step to the next one he just chooses not to take
i don't think he's an idiot, i think he's not putting the logical effort in because he doesn't have to. he's scum

then lynch me my death is imminent anyways

[EchoVision]

echovision is just taking shit out of context in the shallowest way possible
every point he raises has an easy logical step to the next one he just chooses not to take
i don't think he's an idiot, i think he's not putting the logical effort in because he doesn't have to. he's scum

then lynch me my death is imminent anyways

scum wants the day to end soon what a surprise

ok

[EchoVision]

echovision is just taking shit out of context in the shallowest way possible
every point he raises has an easy logical step to the next one he just chooses not to take
i don't think he's an idiot, i think he's not putting the logical effort in because he doesn't have to. he's scum

then lynch me my death is imminent anyways

scum wants the day to end soon what a surprise

that doesn't make any sense... why would I want it to end with my death? whatever. again, my death is imminent...

[EchoVision]

if you're town you want to drag it out as long as possible to try to stop your lynch.

As well as for other reasons.

well why do you think I was trying to make cases against Titus and creature??

[EchoVision]

if you're town you want to drag it out as long as possible to try to stop your lynch.

As well as for other reasons.

well why do you think I was trying to make cases against Titus and creature??

You didn't even make a case against Creature. I asked you about it and you said 'eh I'll tell you tomorrow'

did you not see all my posts in the past few hours? I was trying to make an attempt to go against creature but all of his behavior was too town to me

[EchoVision]

Echo can you please explain the Titus/Creature/Wraith connection you were seeing?

when Titus replaced in Titus and creature were all buddy buddy hence the Titus creature connection.

Titus was super against Wraith lynch trying to repeatedly stop it hence the Titus and Wraith connection

creature and Wraith idk I'm going down to the Waterpark right now so if I'm not dead I'll examine shit when I get back but I'll probably be dead. oh well.

[EchoVision]

Echo Claim

already claimed VT but feel free to hammer

[EchoVision]

Severa why?
Titus showed a lot of resistance towards the Wraith wagon and Wraith faked cop to "confirm" Titus.

OH IT'S OKAY WHEN YOU USE IT AS A REASON BUT NO I CAN'T USE IT

[EchoVision]

Its okay just started a new game so I've still got shit to do now. Y'all lost a member of your town btw. do me a favor and kill Titus and aa thanks <3

[EchoVision]

nobody ever believes me

[EchoVision]

Titus Dunn aa and drealmerz need to be dead. idc in what order but they all need to die k thx

[EchoVision]

I want my last page top k thx