Mafiascum.net

I can't tell if that's manipulation or a genuine sentiment there. And I was hoping that it would be like that if you were town as well. But I can't help feeling like that's what you're doing with the Medea interaction. Maybe you're not, maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel that wrong right now and that's just what really sucks.

Prism - Why did you realize that your original scum read on me was wrong?

Actually it's manipulation.

In post 202, Tammy wrote:Actually it's manipulation.

You're wrong, but your wrongness doesn't make me love you any less!

Alright hey everyone, this post is going to be split into two parts, one has my original thoughts and one is responding to questions about yesterday.

So far I concur with Tammy's (and Nacho's) points on Medea. In particular, I concur that the town points thrown to Aj were nonsense. My reason that they were second yesterday was that these:

In post 48, Medea the Alien wrote:Gamma Emerald, why would you want to throw in RQS at this point? Are you dissatisfied with the discourse in progress? What was your thought process that mass claiming would be useful?

In post 56, Medea the Alien wrote:

In post 41, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I think our best bet is to just play and convince the vigilante to stay put if we mislynch D1.

Okay, so on the playing side of that, you said you have high expectations of this player list. How's that working out from your perspective so far?

Read as superfluous or lazy to me. Meaningful answers are unlikely to come from either. That said, now having energy and not feeling like walking death, there's more to their posts. I think the "Aj townpoints" are more alignment indicative on their part.

I also strongly dislike the late reaction of #125 to the setup. It reads to me as following Tammy's lead with setup complaints. For all Medea's apparent discussion about breaking the setup, I find it hard to believe that the most helpful thing to tell the town is that.

Aj would likely be my second vote right now, as for someone who hates setup discussion their ISO has hardly anything else. BB is still worth following up on, and I'll explain why in my next post. I currently have no townreads, if I had a gun to my head I'd guess Tammy but my confidence in that is low. Fate needs to start playing mafia.

I'm still doing my own thinking on possible breaks before clogging the thread with it, as it gets in the way of reads more than anything else, but a quick note is that we're really undervaluing our assets. Cop gets true guilties, gunsmith gives true innocents. Ergo, gunsmith investigates townreads, cop scumreads. The innocent for a cop has an 88% chance of being town and the guilty for a gunsmith has a 75% chance of being confirmed, as only one scum will claim cop. Vig kill is more powerful than a mislynch. This is swingy as hell but if we get a good Day 1 lynch off, or even just have a good N1 it's hard to imagine us losing.

I've still got to talk to Nacho about LUV but for now I'm moving our vote to Medea. So far this looks less the LUV I was scum with a few months ago.
VOTE: Medea

In post 29, Tammy wrote:It's definitely a you problem.

Just talk to your other head. You'll have to wait until tomorrow though.

But I would like for you to explain what about them reads horrifically? Like how do you not read that and go oh that looks like she has experience with my other head, maybe I'll talk to my other head about it? How does that not be a thing that enters your mind at all?

Your tone was fine (though that wasn't my opinion at the time) but the crux of it is/was that I tend to scumread openings that are "Are you town with me? I hope you're town with me." My opening votes are purposely vague for a few reasons. The first is you get more interesting, revealing responses if you leave it open ended. The second is that often I don't have anything hard, and I basically just stared at it and said "Feels scummy/town"

In post 134, Tammy wrote:What didn't you like about BB's defense?

Scum tends to find the town a lot easier than the town do, and it pinged me because it was done in a way that stifled a discussion that in my opinion was fruitful. Now, there's votes I like better, explained above.

In post 172, Gamma Emerald wrote:Looking at this there's not much to it, looks like Reflektor is making something out of nothing.
VOTE: Reflektor

Alchemists don't make good mafia players.

In post 201, Tammy wrote:Prism - Why did you realize that your original scum read on me was wrong?

To use your words, I decided it was a me problem. In particular, and please don't take offense to this, is that you seem like a very personal player. Your consecutive posts reinforced this and sold me on it. I doubt that after 4 years that your whole choice of playstyle is AI. Your early appeal likely meant nothing, and even if it does it'll take more time to go over your past games and read it. You also are expecting a lot of deference to Nacho out of me, and that's something I'm not going to give. He recruited me to help his scum game but I'm not deadweight as town. I'll use him, but I don't care if he's God himself. I will have the best reads in the town, and in my hydra, or die trying. The fact that you know him, and presumably have more ideas about what he scumreads, is all the more reason not to just defer to him.

What's your opinion on Fate?

Also find it funny that you scum read me BEFORE learning I don't do a lot of setup spec (because of a mafia-expressed reason ROFL) and still scum read me after, when it seems to be the bulk of your read.

I think Fate needs to start playing mafia.

I'll start signing again, all posts from today before the two i just made by Nacho. My read on you, post-discussion, is my first.

-Prism

In post 190, Indigo wrote:I ISOed LUV because of some comments on his posts, so i thought that i would try to see their point of view. People can push whoever they want, if i have a solid read on them (its early D1 so i dont have much reads) then i will chime in but im not going to hard defend someone unless i feel strongly about the person's alignment.

What comments on his posts stood out to you in particular? Do you feel like the people who made those comments were justified or reaching?

In post 206, Aj The Epic wrote:(because of a mafia-expressed reason ROFL)

I don't actually understand what you mean by this.

In post 12, Fate wrote:VOTE: Aj the epic

Scum used to be hard to find

VOTE: Aj the epic

In post 209, Reflektor wrote:

In post 190, Indigo wrote:I ISOed LUV because of some comments on his posts, so i thought that i would try to see their point of view. People can push whoever they want, if i have a solid read on them (its early D1 so i dont have much reads) then i will chime in but im not going to hard defend someone unless i feel strongly about the person's alignment.

What comments on his posts stood out to you in particular? Do you feel like the people who made those comments were justified or reaching?

Posts 41 89 171 are good content that is not scummy imo. The rest of his posts are either slight fluff or observations/NAI interactions. I think the people that are scumreading him, say he is scummy, or suspecting him are reaching at this point in time. LUV has 16 posts so far and it would take a lot of imagination to make those posts out to be anything that is AI/scummy.

I would have joined the fun and silently voted LUV, if not for my already being on him. I don't like the post because he is being entirely silent on why he voted and one can not reasonably guess why. Presumably the vote, but why the vote. It just creates a worse atmosphere. However, as I said, I'm already on him.

In post 214, Empking wrote:I would have joined the fun and silently voted LUV, if not for my already being on him. I don't like the post because he is being entirely silent on why he voted and one can not reasonably guess why. Presumably the vote, but why the vote. It just creates a worse atmosphere. However, as I said, I'm already on him.

Why does my naked vote create a worse atmosphere and BB's doesn't? He just naked vote in 208.

In post 152, BBmolla wrote:Those five posts were all low effort, low content, safe posts.

You can say that about a lot of people's first five posts regardless of alignment. Absent meta, that doesn't say much.

In post 165, Tammy wrote: I meant exactly what I said. Even if all you read was the post I voted in them, I still don't see how you got that. The last two sentences should have clued you into the fact that your interpretation isn't even close to correct. It was born of a lack of interaction, not whatever interpretation you came up with.

The last two sentences seem to be based on personal past experience which I don't share.

And yes, I do think that in a game of mafia, when there are only five pages, that it's reasonable to expect you to read and even iso to respond.

And I think when you say "my point on" someone, and I see a post in which you voted that person and made a point, it's reasonable for me to conclude that that's the point you're referring to.

Why I asked you in the first place was because the manner in which you went, and didn't, go through the thread pinged me. You seemed like you were reading the thread. You were interacting and responding to posts as if you were trucking along, but all you really did was respond to setup spec stuff. The only sort of scum hunting response you had was responding to Gamma's RQS post.

First, not all scum hunting is obvious. Do you really think I wasn't sorting you as we talked?

Second, how much heavy-handed scum hunting do you expect at that point in the game? If only pushing one person at that point is scummy, then probably everyone in the game is scummy.

(What is it with people caring that he did rqs even after someone said not to anyway?)

That wasn't my point, which you'd know if you had read my ISO.

But you stopped commenting on anything going on in the game thread after that except to discuss with me about people being aware of the setup.

I find it odd that you literally stopped responding once actual game relevant stuff started happening. Since you were shooting down setup suggestions, I expected to see you responding to actual scum hunting that was going on, but you merrily ignored it.

The comment on Gamma was in 96. In 117 I commented on your questioning of molla. In 142 I commented on molla's push on LUV. In 151 I followed up on that, asking what the substantive case on LUV was if it wasn't based on tone (and the response has been underwhelming).

So, no, it's incorrect to say that apart from gamma, I've only talked setup spec.

Why are you casting shade like that?

Did you actually read my problem with them? Go ahead and read that page to see me explain my read two whole posts later after I voted them.

Two posts after you voted them is 57, and again that's based on past personal experience which I don't share. Accordingly, there's not much for me to say about it.

In post 171, Lil Uzi Vert wrote: I understand, the thing is I'm not going to force things. It's not how I like to play. I find that a lot of people on this site don't understand that a lot of stuff is just noise or NAI and tend to end up

making something out of nothing

as a result, rather than letting things progress naturally.

In post 172, Gamma Emerald wrote: Looking at this there's not much to it, looks like Reflektor is

making something out of nothing

.
VOTE: Reflektor

This struck me as odd. Rules don't say if scum have daytalk. If they do, this could be two people both unconsciously using wording that came up in their scum thread.

In post 174, Reflektor wrote: I understand that approach. I don't think that

making something out of nothing

is the worst thing in the world as long as you can pull back and see you're making something out of nothing; it's a hell of a lot easier to read a room full of misguided people than it is to read a room where everyone's shuffling their feet and looking at the floor and waiting for someone to do something that really, really stands out.

Apparently it's the phrase of the day.

Still Cabd.

I'm letting Penguin live her own mafia life; Tammy. It's not my place to get in between you and her; and I have no designs on yelling at you; and turning this thread into a slag heap of emotions. You won't have to worry about our slot for long anyways.

I don't think scum has daytalk (KBW is very oldschool from a brief mod meta flipthru); Persivul gets town points for noticing the crossover though. It is possible that the thread was open during the confirmation stage; so theory less likely but not impossible.

In post 204, Reflektor wrote: I also strongly dislike the late reaction of #125 to the setup. It reads to me as following Tammy's lead with setup complaints. For all Medea's apparent discussion about breaking the setup, I find it hard to believe that the most helpful thing to tell the town is that.

It was their first post after mod gave setup information which was both new and unusual. How is it late?

In post 207, Reflektor wrote:I think Fate needs to start playing mafia.

Randomidget too. He was on site yesterday but didn't bother posting here.

In post 210, Reflektor wrote:

In post 206, Aj The Epic wrote:(because of a mafia-expressed reason ROFL)

I don't actually understand what you mean by this.

The reason I don't like setup spec is because of something I do as scum, not anything in particular I do as town. So using my discussion of setup spec this game (which is also unique for me as I don't play a lot of open setups) makes less sense when my expressed reason is basically for helping my scum meta.

Also is it too much to ask for that both Shadonra and Fate show up scum? I've never played with Fate but I'd imagine a 5 year vet wouldn't struggle this much getting into a game/tripping over himself in the first few pages as town.

Persivul I think it's actually more likely that it's just subconscious use of the phrase from Gamma, and Reflektor just used Gamma's wording to respond.