Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[Titus]

Ok, i need claims, if the scum lynch was a guilty.

Also, if someone colors and replaces all names in Mastina's VCA that would be awesome.

[Titus]

What are your reads on each current player? (I accept read through may take time, on the flip side... two days of quick lynching will speed it up considerably, on the other hand, two tonnes of shit-posting may make it a slog)

I do not read until I do my VCA barring extrem circumstances.

What do you feel about my VCA? Do you agree/disagree with my theory that there must be scum between shannon/Garmr and myself/Lexa?

What post is your VCA in? Please lay out your methodology if you have not.

What are your thoughts on Lexa's RB claim, and shannon's JOAT claim?

What are your thoughts on shannon's Gin/TB = scum theory?

Non plussed by Lexa's claim but Mastina probably did not make things simple. My own theories will come in my VCA.

Who are your top two scum reads? And which of them do you propose should be lynched and why?

Punt until vca.

[Titus]

A proper VCA needs every single vote count, not just the end ones.

Unless there is a wagon sensor I missed, do not do the max scum on wagon thing. No obvious but unflipped reads either.

[Titus]

So are you saying don't color code Thinkbig or I green because we aren't flipped? I mean I'm JOAT cop and proved 3 people and conf!town two people.

Obviously this is for you to do but there's that I need to know for you to consider

Correct. If it is not mod confirmed, do not color it.
You can put the information that Pine clears so and so at the top (claims are relevant), but no color. Color suggests result.

In fact, you should mark when you knew each player's alignment and announced it. Masons/cop innos act differently.

[Titus]

Ty. I will be waiting for your VCs.

[Titus]

Yeah but by your posting, you kinda already did before I spoke.

[Titus]

Yippie skippy present for me!

[Titus]

I could have fixed the broken tags but lol lazy and dear Titus can make due and I can't wait to see what she comes up with.

Thanks. So let's establish the groundwork and procedures before determining anything.

1) Gather but do not assess reliability of claims. If you can get in without developing reads but being nice to people do that. The idea is to get data but NOT bias.
2) Get a scum lynch without a guilty. (If we don't have that, this becomes less reliable.)
3) Establish expectations.
a) There is no clear ONE SCUM ACTION. Certain things are more indicative.
b) There are actions that are more or less town indicative. For instance, being a scum wagon suggests town.
c) Aggregate these factors. Then, make a conclusion.
d) People may disagree, but the disagreement should come from the motivation of the scumteam at that point. A wrong lynch should be able to recalibrate the theory is the hope.

[Titus]

Alisae - 3 (PranaDevil, nydushermain, shannon)
XnadrojX - 2 (karnos, Alisae)
karnos - 2 (Garmr, XnadrojX)

Garmr and the three names on Alisae have major scumpoints to here, but there is little to zero chance that there are two scum on the Alisae wagon, as they'd likely jump onto X wagon

[Titus]

karnos - 3 (Garmr, XnadrojX, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)
Alisae - 2 (PranaDevil, shannon)

Good points for Gin for swapping wagons, but do need to check to ensure not a bus.

[Titus]

Spoiler: 1. Claims

1. shannon - JOAT (1-shot jailkeeper,1-shot doctor,1-shot bodyguard)
3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic - JOAT (1-shot cop, 1-shot gunsmith, 1-shot neapolitan)
5. Titus - No claim
6. Lexa - Roleblocker
8. ThinkBig - Vanilla
10. Garmr - Vanilla
13. PranaDevil - No claim

2. Scum Lynch = karnos D1, non guilty

3. Expectations stage is next?

Yup. I'm setting them up as I go. Unless you're scum with a preplanned narrative, it's hard to establish precise expectations. Scum play changes with dynamic.

[Titus]

Do scum have daychat?

<<< Answered in 1546. >>>

[Titus]

karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)[/color]
All Alone - 3 (Lexa, Alisae, LicketyQuickety)
LicketyQuickety - 3 (PranaDevil, shannon, ThinkBig)

Leaning town on PranaDevil, because of the fact scum are not jumping onto karnos, yet an LQ wagon seems to be appearing. Why not just join the AA wagon. This suggests that either a) scum are splitting their votes between AA and LQ and are unsure which they want to push or b) AA is doing what scum want and scum would rather wagon LQ because his reads are objectively better at this point. The names on LQ are the same names from Alisae before. There's a wierd alliance between PranaDevil and shannon that needs prodding to see if it is organic.

[Titus]

Doesn't say it in the OP

Ok so Encryptor or no daychat.

[Titus]

karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)[/color]
All Alone - 4 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety, PranaDevil, ThinkBig)
ThinkBig - 2 (shannon, Alisae)

The LQ push is abandoned entirely here, with all its membership splitting onto different wagons. This should have a closer look.

[Titus]

One could assume encryptor but Occam's Razor and I'd have to research all of Mastina's modded games to see the plausibility that she would use it.

No. Bad. No assumptions.

Mine assumes I'm town but it's because I cannot filter that knowledge, although I am not seeing Pepto on this sheet, so lol if I say wierd shit.

[Titus]

karnos - 6 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, PranaDevil, ThinkBig)[/color]
All Alone - 2 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety)
ThinkBig - 2 (shannon, Alisae)
LicketyQuickety - 1 (All Alone)
XnadrojX - 1 (karnos)

Not Voting - 2 (Pepchoninga)

This ending suggests a mass bus after the scum failed to get a town wagon to counter. Although, if I'm candid, I'd suspect my slot for not even trying during this wagon. The lack of a counter = ineffective scum or lurker scum.

We have ineffective scum here and I know that because I am in the slot of lurker.

[Titus]

I'm at the end of day 1, and I'm leaning towards a Prana flip.

What was your N1 result Pine?

[Titus]

Ok, to be clear

Gin copped ThinkBig, so you universally have ThinkBig as town. Decent cop given the vote patterns and hammer on scum.

Since this is a normal and Godfather is blacklisted, we can presume that in order for ThinkBig to be scum, you MUST be his buddy or there is a third buddy for the two of you.

[Titus]

I also cleared BBT, what does that lead to?

I'm going in order. I'll ask for your night 2 result when I get there. I want to know what you know and when you know it to understand your vote motions on the vote counts. Right now, given I have the theory of scum being bussed, I can't quite jump on the you being town wagon yet although you do have points in that direction. You're also in my bus zone.

[Titus]

Interesting, both day 2 wagons on town, and little pressure on the backhalf of the wagon. Those wagons taking off makes horrible sense which suggests scum are promoting bad town with their bus cred.

[Titus]

What result did you get on N2 exactly?

[Titus]

Checked BBT night 2 after his "pow" hammer and used a gunsmith, given that my results said he had no gun, I was able to conclude he was not mafia

That is NOT a confirmed clear on BBT.

[Titus]

Checked BBT night 2 after his "pow" hammer and used a gunsmith, given that my results said he had no gun, I was able to conclude he was not mafia

That is NOT a confirmed clear on BBT.

^^

Though it is pretty close IMO. If the mafia had a doctor or traitor, they will show up as NOT having a gun. Similar, town roles might also have a gun.

This. If everyone in the town PRs is honest, a traitor wouldn't be unheard of.

Back to the VCs.

[Titus]

Alisae - 5 (PranaDevil, BlueBloodedToffee, ThinkBig, Lexa, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)[/color]
Lexa - 1 (Alisae)

What happened here? Did Prana fake a guilty on Alisae?

[Titus]

This is fascinating!

Echoing, never seen anything like this before

I usually do something much more neat than this, but most everyone here has already seen my VCA in some way shape or form.

Basically, it is an idea that scum tend to act in rhythmic patterns or have certain behavior patterns based on personality. By looking for what scum would NOT do, you can narrow down a pool of suspects.

I kinda want to hear more about why you voted my slot during day 2.

[Titus]

I'm thinking more Shannon, PranaDevil as my top two myself at the moment but I need to organize my thoughts before coming down with where I'd like to focus.

[Titus]

Mod: Is this day 4 or Day 5?

<<< It is Day Four. >>>

Pine, did you short me a few VCs? the first post has bbt dead... and the clear on him... that's a wagon I want to see.

[Titus]

By Pine, I mean Gin. Lol.

[Titus]

BBT was killed night theee, not lynched. Mod needs to fix that in the OP

Yes. I thought Pine was hiding wagons from me because BBT was never lynched yet first post... LOLs.

The mod is telling us something... lynch the corpse!!!!

No wait, that can't be right...

[Titus]

I am the most horrible person with names.

[Titus]

@Titus: What do you think of my theory that there is probably a watcher/tracker role in the game given AA's 1-shot fruit vendor?

I avoided this deliberately. Why do you think it's protown to ask?

[Titus]

@Titus: What do you think of my theory that there is probably a watcher/tracker role in the game given AA's 1-shot fruit vendor?

I avoided this deliberately. Why do you think it's protown to ask?

More set up speculation than anything. I don't want a claim from anyone FTR unless you have an incriminating result.

That's not a cool thing to ask IMO.

[Titus]

Hey Devil, time to claim your role.

[Titus]

Alisae - 5 (PranaDevil, BlueBloodedToffee, ThinkBig, Lexa, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)[/color]
Lexa - 1 (Alisae)

What happened here? Did Prana fake a guilty on Alisae?

town went full derp here and made the shittest reason for lynching alisae.

Which was?

[Titus]

@Titus, here are the snippets on Pep from my major catchup post where I went through the game up to the end of d1 and looked for scum tells. To this point Pep had contributed literally nothing of value beyond some jokey posts in RVS and no one seemed to care or even notice, this despite it still being early in the day, the majority of other players getting wagoned/pressured, and the karnos lynch wagon having yet to have formed.

Jesus how has pepchoninga gone unnoticed? 434 he says "this is my playing". He hasn't contributed anything and somehow isn't getting read or pressured!!! I have to imagine

someone

on the scum team would have noticed and pushed him by now. Moderate scum points given here.

IN POST EDIT: Upgraded to major scum points, popped my head into his iso and holy fuck someone vote his ass.

Confirmed my read on the above, the posts leading up to 444 are such obvious attempts to bus the top wagon in karnos and gain town points. And then immediately flip flops at 451 giving karnos a softball set up to deflect pressure away from him. Pep is top scum read at this point.

Major hint that scum already have a mislynch in mind (or if you didn't know my slot's alignment) that I am scum or it's too early to determine lurkers
Based from posts 434 to 452 in Pep's iso

[Titus]

Major hint that scum already have a mislynch in mind (or if you didn't know my slot's alignment) that I am scum or it's too early to determine lurkers

Where did this come from?

On day 1, when scum don't care to pressure a lurker, it's because they do not need to.

My slot wasn't pressured for shit.

Scum did not need to.

[Titus]

I'm being fucking stupid because I know scum slips come from town 90% of the time but could you reword it because it's bugging me seeing "that I am scum"

It just sounds really weird and makes me uncomfortable

No problem.

If scum don't pressure a lurker slot it's because either

a) Scum have a planned mislynch
b) It's a buddy
c) Scum don't need to (planned bus, town eating itself, etc)

[Titus]

I was saying b is false but technically that's known only to me.

[Titus]

Garmr, your thoughts on Devil and Shannon?

[Titus]

So Lexa, what did you learn from having the vote counts?

Don't rush it.

[Titus]

The only one I've come up with so far is that scum is in fact pressuring the lurker but that would mean I'm scum so I'm still puzzling.

Although admitting this makes me wonder why scum!you would say that

Yeah I haven't thought Lexa's scum for awhile.

[Titus]

Why has mass claim been aborted with two of the scummiest slots left to claim?

[Titus]

Titus have you claimed? Really i want a mass claim at this point because only two people, I think Titus maybe as well, haven't done so.

Nope and I want my scum suspect to claims first.

I believe Devil and Shannon have not claimed.

[Titus]

I do believe Devil should claim first.

Gin, I'm rather curious about your reads?

[Titus]

Dude, I'm not drinking enough to play guess the twenty questions. Who are you TRing? Who are you SRing?

[Titus]

Yeah, not claiming, nass claim was abandoned as it never started. People claimed for good reasons (see: Gin worrying about dying and pretty much clearing two people, with BBT's death proving that). Then Lexa was told to claim by Alisae and gave a fake claim, which made no real sense to do in the first place, then Gin investigated her and found she wasn't vanilla (which thinking about it... more proof Gin is town surely?) So she had to re-claim. Not sure about if that means she's town or not though.

Shannon claimed JOAT-doc style after Lexa's RB claim was called out, with absolutely no pressure to do so.

There's been no mass claim, and you can get stuffed if you think I'm starting it.

Also, ignoring everything else to focus on VCA does prove something else, that you miss reasoning, as proven by asking for it, and then getting really bad results. Check interactions between me and Alisae for why he was an obvious lynch, and why he should have been the lynch D2, rather than LQ who was lynched in just a few hours (I went to sleep, woke up and he's gone).

Anyway, now we have content from the Pep slot, we can at least lynch Lexa, then the shannon/Garmr pairing gets dealt with, then victory.

vote: Lexa

VOTE: Devil (the guy who posted this)

You ARE claiming.

[Titus]

Also, why is Lexa at L-1 when:

I was asked to unvote her earlier when I put her at L-1
We are all waiting to hear about Titus' VC, and Titus has indicated she thinks Lexa might not be scum
Gin, who you are all saying is conf town, is also starting to be a bit up in the air about Lexa

Town posting or Lexa buddy.

I do have a couple concerns on Gin but they are role related.

[Titus]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);
2. If she flips Mafia, Titus is essentially cleared

Right now her flip will tell us more than Devil.

Wrong.

You think Lexa has a bad claim. Devil isn't even claiming. If Lexa was forced into a bad claim, Devil should have no good claim either.

If Lexa is a roleblocker, regardless of alignment, we lynch scum. They can be publicly directed on who to block.

Devil's claim dodge on the allegation mass claim wasn't started is srmantic and garbage. We want it now and we want Devil to go first.

Devil death also clears up spots on wagon.

[Titus]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

This is opportunistic as fuck.

We have a dead rolecop.

Gin claimed a cop type role.

ThinkBig has postulated a follower.

This just lets you lynch all the PRs. Chill.

[Titus]

Unfortunately it really can't be proven at this point. The claimed PRs have used up there shots. Furthermore, as I mentioned previously, the scum team can use a no kill gambit to fake being role blocked.

This is why Devil claims and I claim today. This is a horrible assumption.

[Titus]

Unfortunately it really can't be proven at this point. The claimed PRs have used up there shots. Furthermore, as I mentioned previously, the scum team can use a no kill gambit to fake being role blocked.

This is why Devil claims and I claim today. This is a horrible assumption.

What is a horrible assumption?

The entire post.

[Titus]

Horrible as in incorrect, not scum.

[Titus]

You got it yet?

[Titus]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

This is opportunistic as fuck.

We have a dead rolecop.

Gin claimed a cop type role.

ThinkBig has postulated a follower.

This just lets you lynch all the PRs. Chill.

You yourself said the possibility

Also, why is Lexa at L-1 when:

I was asked to unvote her earlier when I put her at L-1
We are all waiting to hear about Titus' VC, and Titus has indicated she thinks Lexa might not be scum
Gin, who you are all saying is conf town, is also starting to be a bit up in the air about Lexa

Town posting or

Lexa buddy.

I do have a couple concerns on Gin but they are role related.

I already declared I think both are scum.

Even if you think that, having Lexa at l minus 1 before finishing massclaim is dumb and you know it.

If you're wrong, we enter lylo with at least 1 unclaimed slot.

[Titus]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

This is opportunistic as fuck.

We have a dead rolecop.

Gin claimed a cop type role.

ThinkBig has postulated a follower.

This just lets you lynch all the PRs. Chill.

You yourself said the possibility

Also, why is Lexa at L-1 when:

I was asked to unvote her earlier when I put her at L-1
We are all waiting to hear about Titus' VC, and Titus has indicated she thinks Lexa might not be scum
Gin, who you are all saying is conf town, is also starting to be a bit up in the air about Lexa

Town posting or

Lexa buddy.

I do have a couple concerns on Gin but they are role related.

I already declared I think both are scum.

Even if you think that, having Lexa at l minus 1 before finishing massclaim is dumb and you know it.

If you're wrong, we enter lylo with at least 1 unclaimed slot.

I honestly don't care if prana claims or not.

Also shame on you, you have been on this site longer than me so you should know by now rebellious doesn't = scum.

You're Devil's buddy aren't you?

You unvote when I move momentum away from Lexa and try to speed rush her lynch when I try to get a Devil claim?

[Titus]

I could vote Prana if she doesn't claim at this point. I don't want any late game shenanigans

This. So much this.

Now that Garmr has reduced to shading me when he initially backed off Lexa, it further confirms my suspicions.

[Titus]

After the claim tho Titus, I do need you to give reads based on day play.

You already have them. Devil and Garmr are the scums barring a jarring claim.

[Titus]

After the claim tho Titus, I do need you to give reads based on day play.

You already have them. Devil and Garmr are the scums barring a jarring claim.

This is what I was afraid of you just ruining easily winnable games. Your just a tool of scum with a green text.

Then what's the harm in Devil claiming to help me get set?

Why does Lexa need to be lynched before I reach that understanding?

[Titus]

So tomorrow is MyLo if we get this wrong

Which is why we mass claim today.

[Titus]

How so Garmr?

Titus accused me of chainsawing to protect prana. Which just makes her doubt her actually knowledge of the game.
1.claims i unvoted lexa and revoted her. (I didn't that was thinkbig and his confirmed town by you)
2.claims i want to speed lynch lexa to make sure prana doesn't claim.
3.she thinks the mod would actually 3 joats and roleblocker in a mininormal for town or you know she hasn't fucking read the game.

I been pushing that lexa and shannon are scum since the start of today on the grounds of wagon analysis. Poe due to lexa role and how she lied about being it and shannon because of vote placements.

It's also possible that lexa is lying about the extent of her role if she is scum and she has limitations. She's probably trying to bend the truth a bit to look more town.

Oh god the urge to smartass this is rising.

[Titus]

Sorry, wasn't clear, I was asking Titus about why she says you haven't claimed when you said VT

Devil hasn't claimed. Garmr has.

[Titus]

Oh god the urge to smartass this is rising.

Do it or else be classified by the yawn emoji

Nope. The smartass I would use would require claiming and I want Devil first.

[Titus]

After the claim tho Titus, I do need you to give reads based on day play.

You already have them. Devil and Garmr are the scums barring a jarring claim.

This is what I was afraid of you just ruining easily winnable games. Your just a tool of scum with a green text.

Then what's the harm in Devil claiming to help me get set?

Why does Lexa need to be lynched before I reach that understanding?

There's no harm but what's the point in voting someone over it when you could actually vote scum. Tell me do you honestly think scum would rebel in prana position (near universal town reads before you came and all the roles already claimed.)


Also what's the objective as scum when every power has been said and told and explained what it's used on. In the current situation the best claim would be vanilla town.

His town motive could be trying to create wifom to make scum shoot him instead.


Just think for once titus below the surface thank you.

Let him claim for himself. TB thinks there's a missing power role.

Your opinion is not the only one.

[Titus]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

This. With TB being lock death tonight, what's the harm?

[Titus]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

This. With TB being lock death tonight, what's the harm?

Other than not claiming can you tell me why prana is scum titus?

Vca.

[Titus]

He's a suspect in it. Lexa isn't really.

[Titus]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

This. With TB being lock death tonight, what's the harm?

Other than not claiming can you tell me why prana is scum titus?

Vca.

Oh really how so?

Read my entry posts. Mr. I'm so smart Titus should read.

You're deflecting from mass claim happening today

[Titus]

*shrug* It's pretty clear I view the d1 wagon on Karnos as a bus becayse scum failed to get a counter.

You can get melodramatic because I am playing correctly, or you can just actually listen.

[Titus]

It's intesting that I proposed a mass claim today and Garmr/Devil are the only ones who still are opposed to it

Unvote: Lexa
Vote: Devil

For pressure

Also with how fast the Karnos wagon was built it is almost impossible for it to be an all town wagon.

inb4 Devil says no or Titus has to go first because she's in favor or some other bullshit excuse

[Titus]

Pressure voting kind of loses its purpose when you announce

Btw mastina I set my vote on Shannon a while ago

Not always. If a player knows the vote stays until a particular event, then pressure works. It's random pressure votes that generally don't.

[Titus]

Just going to highlight PD logged in three hours ago...no post here

Ask DGB said (paraphrase), fakeclaims are a bitch

[Titus]

It's intesting that I proposed a mass claim today and Garmr/Devil are the only ones who still are opposed to it

Unvote: Lexa
Vote: Devil

For pressure

Also with how fast the Karnos wagon was built it is almost impossible for it to be an all town wagon.

inb4 Devil says no or Titus has to go first because she's in favor or some other bullshit excuse

[Titus]

You need to vote or use tags

Vote: Devil

and

VOTE: Devil

while

Vote Devil is not.

I'm flexible as a mod. If it's intended, I count it.

<<< I, too, will count a vote if it is intended as one. However, I need to recognize it as clear, unambiguous intent to vote. Unbolded leaves ambiguity; not using the word "vote" leaves ambiguity. >>>

[Titus]

*shrug* It's pretty clear I view the d1 wagon on Karnos as a bus becayse scum failed to get a counter.

You can get melodramatic because I am playing correctly, or you can just actually listen.

you said it was a failed bus wagon but you said the buses were late.

Hi

[Titus]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

[Titus]

Pine, I do have to ask.

You have a rolecop allegedly. There's a dead rolecop. Nothing you've done cannot be faked. I don't believe it is. I do have to ask though.

[Titus]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

And you know we're reaching Mylo because?

[Titus]

Pine, I do have to ask.

You have a rolecop allegedly. There's a dead rolecop. Nothing you've done cannot be faked. I don't believe it is. I do have to ask though.

ehmm

Is the All Alone flip wrong? Or do I have your claim wrong?

[Titus]

Sorry for the double post

I think I know what Devil is trying to say by not claiming.

And you'd be wrong. I'm saying that.

[Titus]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

And you know we're reaching Mylo because?

Because prana devil is town It's fucking obvious to people with half a brain. This is like alisae all over again.

So you're supposing I'm lynching Prana Devil rather than claim allegedly. Great, why don't you suppose Devil claims and we just end this?

[Titus]

Pine, I do have to ask.

You have a rolecop allegedly. There's a dead rolecop. Nothing you've done cannot be faked. I don't believe it is. I do have to ask though.

ehmm

Is the All Alone flip wrong? Or do I have your claim wrong?

He is 1-shot cop, gunsmith and neopolotan. AA was vanilla cop, rolecop, and fruit vendor (visitor)

Sorry Gin. I'm tired and angry. My memory goes sometimes.

[Titus]

Sorry for the double post

I think I know what Devil is trying to say by not claiming.

And you'd be wrong. I'm saying that.

Bonus, go back to your terrible assumption and suppose that Pepto was terrible.

[Titus]

Not so wild crack pot theory: Devil is a watcher/tracker/and or/follower which is why he isn't claiming. This explains AA's 1-shot fruit vendor role (a role that does basically nothing)

Dude, do I need a sledgehammer?

[Titus]

Not so wild crack pot theory: Devil is a watcher/tracker/and or/follower which is why he isn't claiming. This explains AA's 1-shot fruit vendor role (a role that does basically nothing)

Dude, do I need a sledgehammer?

Where am I going wrong with that theory?

Read this page again. And again. If you ask again, I'm going to need to get drunk.

[Titus]

Not so wild crack pot theory: Devil is a watcher/tracker/and or/follower which is why he isn't claiming. This explains AA's 1-shot fruit vendor role (a role that does basically nothing)

Dude, do I need a sledgehammer?

Where am I going wrong with that theory?

Read this page again. And again. If you ask again, I'm going to need to get drunk.

I already am drunk

That explains a lot. Pass the bottle?

[Titus]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

And you know we're reaching Mylo because?

Because prana devil is town It's fucking obvious to people with half a brain. This is like alisae all over again.

So you're supposing I'm lynching Prana Devil rather than claim allegedly. Great, why don't you suppose Devil claims and we just end this?

1 Because I don't think devils even been on or at least hasn't posted.
2.Not claiming isn't a scum thing to do as it doesn't benefit scum look at how many people turned against him. It's just as stupid to do as scum as it is as town.

Dude he's replied to the wagon here. He's seen it.

It's anti-town as fuck. The wifom argument noted and dispensed.

Why would scum do x? It brings them heat.

He doesn't want to claim because he doesn't know what to claim.

[Titus]

Reread this page.

[Titus]

IT'S ENTIRELY SAFE TO CLAIM

I want to catch Devil since what I'm saying apparently as Neon obvious as I thought it was. I'm locked in though. Yes, it's safe to but I'm going for the homerun here if you don't mind.

[Titus]

Titus, you want Devil to claim but you're not claiming yourself. How the fuck do I TR that?

Keep rereading that page and the top post of this one.

You'll know what I'm doing. If not, try when sober.

[Titus]

Titus, are you claiming you have an incriminating result on devil?

Read Gin.

[Titus]

But for the record, I've already answered that too.

[Titus]

Thinkbig, can it, let Titus do her thing.

No I too want to hear titus answer.

Now, I really don't want to directly answer. Vote me Garmr.

[Titus]

But for the record, I've already answered that too.

Which post?

Broken record answer. Reread these last two pages.

[Titus]

I want a clear answer I don't want her to wifom a result on him then go nah I didn't have a result guys.

I'm not wifoming anything. IF anyone follows what I'm saying, they know everything. If not, we still have Devil claim, then I'll explain it.

[Titus]

But for the record, I've already answered that too.

Which post?

Broken record answer. Reread these last two pages.

Just post it again or post the link to posts you want me to look at. I obviously didn't get the hint in the past two pages even after a quick reskim.

I wasn't talking to you. I don't want you to know. You'll tell Devil what to say.

[Titus]

So let's not give Titus shit and voe Prana if she doesn't claim. I fully endorse the motion at hand

EBWOP

Thank you

Gin

[Titus]

But for the record, I've already answered that too.

Which post?

Broken record answer. Reread these last two pages.

Just post it again or post the link to posts you want me to look at. I obviously didn't get the hint in the past two pages even after a quick reskim.

I wasn't talking to you. I don't want you to know. You'll tell Devil what to say.

Are you an idiot? It's a public forum he will hear it in thread.

Scum chat isn't.

[Titus]

Thinkbig, can it, let Titus do her thing.

No I too want to hear titus answer.

Now, I really

don't want to directly answer

. Vote me Garmr.

Translation: Yes

If you

do

have an incriminating result, why can't ou just hard claim so we can end the day? You won't be dying tonight as

Pine

Gin already said.

I'll explain everything after

Devil

claims. Not a moment before.

[Titus]

ThinkBig LISTEN TO ME. STOP FUCKING PUSHING THIS.

He'll learn a lot in our future hydra.

[Titus]

I see what you did there

No offence gin but you should be really thinking right now if you think titus has a guilty.


Because then claimed roles are

joat role cop varitions plus fruit vender
joat cop varitions
joat dr varitions
roleblocker
titus supposed role that makes gin want



It pretty much confirms that one of the power roles proposed is lying about their role or alignment. Town would not have this much power.

Balance whine when I haven't even claimed officially. Priceless.

[Titus]

@Gin, for the record I still think Titus is most likely town. I don't think scum Titus will fake dumb as this post:

Do scum have daychat?

<<< Answered in 1546. >>>

No shit. Now, why don't you go through and ask yourself why I make every post I do. Keep asking if confused. Then ask some more.

Then pass me the bottle.

[Titus]

Let him answer his own questions when I ask him directly.

:nod: What you do when interrupting for someone is called Garciaing. It interrupts read formation. Do it only if you have a good reason to do so, as you delay town. Gin technically Garciaed to tell you to back off and I

think

he knows what I am doing here, and it is the right play. 9/10 it's a bad idea though.

[Titus]

I only did it to TB because I know TB is town in this case, as to why I don't need read information, Garmr on the other hand...

Technically, you know TB is town or Mob doctor, but I think that TB's town here.

[Titus]

Unless I have your results backwards...

[Titus]

I only did it to TB because I know TB is town in this case, as to why I don't need read information, Garmr on the other hand...

Technically, you know TB is town or Mob doctor, but I think that TB's town here.

Unless I have your results backwards...

Yeah. He used his cop result on me and gunsmith on BBT. I obviously can't be a mod doctor.

Also there is obviously no vig or SK so there will be no need for a mob doc

Mob doctor is sometimes included just to fool a GS. I had the results backwards. Mob doctor is sometimes included just to fool a GS though.

[Titus]

No one claimed negative utility right?

[Titus]

No one claimed negative utility right?

You will probably disagree with me, but I view town role blockers as having more negative utility than pro town utility.

Fair enough. I'm just looking at balance in mind. I was thinking more ascetics or things like that.

[Titus]

No one claimed negative utility right?

You will probably disagree with me, but I view town role blockers as having more negative utility than pro town utility.

Fair enough. I'm just looking at balance in mind. I was thinking more ascetics or things like that.

Fair enough.

The reason I think town role blockers do more to hurt town than help town is because they are far more likely to role block town PRs or VTs than scum performing the NK.

Yes, and that might be how Lexa's role functions here.

But when that question is asked, people almost universally mean millers/ascetics. Things you claim Day 1, 99 times out of 100.

Beloved Princesses and Lovers technically fall into that category but are not claimed for obvious reasons.

[Titus]

Can we not talk about role blockers until tomorrow?

We can table that for now. You may revisit this issue later.

[Titus]

As for Prana's voting pattern, Alisae being the usual lynch bait means that would be the attempted counterwagon on Karnos. Prana voted near the end when if by VCA, that means they finally decided to bus. If I do remember correctly, it also goes to show that Prana had a death tunnel for Alisae.

The other thing to note is that when Karnos was scumming it up in the thread, Prana voted All Alone saying it was a much better lynch because All Alone currently had posted much. If I remember, Titus explained counterwagons form on lurkerslots to get scum out of a bad situation and that was evidently one of them.

Prana and Garmr make sense now as the scum.

Garmr with the early push on a partner to gain town cred for it and Prana near the end when it was soon realized no other wagon would likely occur.

That is my theory on vote counts.

[Titus]

I still however, have Shannon as viable and Lexa as a long shot.

[Titus]

That is my theory on vote counts.

-Credits to Titus

Sorry for making you do the work and not being clear. As you can tell, I'm in my egg head three moves ahead space.

[Titus]

Intent to hammer if no claim is given

(expired on 2017-02-14 08:00:00)

P-Edit: Eh, it's all good. You opened the idea to me and I have to work things out myself before I really get it anyways.

I think by tonight, I should be able to figure out a game solve play but I won't release it unless I find it perfect/full proof.

You should post and we discuss it before hammering because I will have plenty to chime in about.

[Titus]

pointed that out earlier as what is suspect to me.

I find it weird because at least from my analysis, Karnos claiming Vengeful made no sense from scum as it's a promised lynch. I will still say it but I really fucking hate how I get caught by "too dumb to be scum" moves.

Me too, but we're winning by too good and stupid to be true, so it balances out.

[Titus]

You should post and we discuss it before hammering because I will have plenty to chime in about.

I will only discuss it when it becomes full proof, otherwise I drop anything that can be manipulated, well I just helped scum.

You could just tell me your concerns and I can work on it overnight.

[Titus]

@Garmr, Just how would I be conftown after mislynching you?

@All, Now that Devil has claimed VT, I will claim. I am another joat. Guess what, P was so ridiculous, he left all his shots too.

That's why I knew that PD wasn't claiming a PR, TB. I was said PR. Now, let me explain how you could deduce everything I just said.

You pushed saying my role had to exist. I said basically to table it and deflect. This is a subtle indicator what you're doing didn't work.

Then you assume for some unknown reason its PD, when PD would just outright claim, even though a competent player uses their shots.

I tell you that's not his claim. Now, how could I know what PD was claiming without investigating him? Either, I saw a role hint (Highly unlikely, given I hadn't read and I am asking for claims), investigated him (Really, with a dead rolecop), I am scum (you already know this one is false), or I am the very role so it's highly unlikely PD will claim it. This is what you should have deduced by page 68, Post 1679.

Now, in 1683 - Same page. I tell you to go back to the assumption I said was terrible. I told you Pepto (the guy I subbed in for) was terrible. I supposed (incorrectly obviously), that you had picked up that I was as subtle as a sledgehammer about being another Joat. This is me telling you I have all three shots remaining because Pep never used them. He never even tried.

I was hoping Devil would claim the joat, I would bust him, AND get a clearing/confirming investigation off tonight. Yet PD wouldn't be dumb enough to CC me after I claim.

[Titus]

@Garmr, Just how would I be conftown after mislynching you?
.

You would be near confirmed town if prana is scum not for mislynching me. The mislynch on me would be the byproduct of standing up for my beliefs.

So you're supposing PD will flip scum, yet I am not going to reassess? What about with my claim?

P.S. My shots are Tracker, Follower, and Motion Detector.

[Titus]

Right, so if I am supposedly not a JOAT because it would be too much, in what universe do we accept your JOAT claim Titus?

My reply to you suggesting you could not be a joat included the knowledge I already was one.

[Titus]

Do I know that? No. But I do know I am a joat, and 4 joats, 3 alive here is wtf?

Now that I was rudely awakened, I am going back to bed as even I need sleep.

[Titus]

Oh and PD, VCA is best when not reading. No bias. Tehehe.

[Titus]

Wow, I go to sleep and Garmr throws a tantrum. Ok.

I'm going to PM Mastina but we should wait until Garmr leaves before placing votes. Like really. Doing something you know is illegal and will get you banned. What the fork?

[Titus]

That being said, if we suppose Garmr is town, if we find the scum other than Lexi today, we can force an inevitable endgame.

Lexi cannot block me. We know Lexi isn't an ascetic.

I track/follow Lexi. Lexi blocks someone other than me. Either scum must no kill (due to being blocked or framing), or we get some fucking clears.

[Titus]

Yeah scum, if Garmr was your buddy, if you resign, that's cool by me. You can say or tell yourself that you would have won if not for your buddy imploding.

[Titus]

If Garmr is scum (and at this point, I'm 99% confident that he is), the scum team should just resign

He's actually probably town.

[Titus]

If Garmr is scum (and at this point, I'm 99% confident that he is), the scum team should just resign

He's actually probably town.

Why's that?

If he is town, then the day ends. How do we play in tomorrow's MyLo?

You will be conftown. You get hammer.

Devil votes first, within 48 hours, or he gets rope.

I'm presuming I die there.

If you die instead of me, I out my result.

If I don't have a result, Lexa's scum.

[Titus]

If Garmr is scum (and at this point, I'm 99% confident that he is), the scum team should just resign

He's actually probably town.

Why's that?

If he is town, then the day ends. How do we play in tomorrow's MyLo?

True but Garmr basically usually only gets this petulant as town. It's a vaccum exercise though. His behavior is a modkill regardless of alignment.

<<< This is correct. Faking a quote of a moderator PM still would count for the purpose of a modkill, as that would be considered loophole abuse, which I punish harshly. Additionally, while Garmr's attitude prior to the modkill might not have been a modkillable offense, had he not been modkilled, he would still be facing moderator intervention for his attitude. How severe, impossible to say as the modkill overrode any other violation. >>>

[Titus]

In mylo, unless conftown, you NEVER lynch. Ever. Tell other players how to find scum, but don't out your own reads unless you have been a lurk sack of shit all game or have a guilty.

In lylo, consensus scummy slots vote first. Wait for hammer. If a player cannot watch for hammer, they can unvote until they are back online.

Once a sufficient time has passed, you can narrow down scum pools.

[Titus]

In one recent game in LyLo, I voted first and there was no attempt to quick hammer. I was able to conclude that he was scum and ended up PoEing the other scum with him.

Right, but everyone knows you're town here. Forcing scummy players do that is more informative.

p-edit, I should out one, and then radio skip. In case I die after the first.

[Titus]

Here is my proposal:

Titus, you follow Lexa. Lexa roleblocks Devil. This is the only way I see confirming Lexa as a roleblocker.

We can easily confirm Lexa as a blocker. The thing is, I'd lose my result.

Your plan is ideal though.

[Titus]

1. shannon

3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic
5. Titus

6. Lexa

8. ThinkBig

13. PranaDevil

If Garmr is town, then the only real scum team that is possible is Lexa/Devil

I still think shannon is eligible.

[Titus]

Why is that? If we take out shannon, we have:

1. shannon

3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic
5. Titus

6. Lexa

8. ThinkBig

13. PranaDevil

Shannon/Lexa/Devil

Just their negativity towards me. I can't put my finger on it. I feel better about Lexa than Shannon, but by role power, you are likely correct Lexa is scum. I just don't KNOW Lexa is scum.

We have a pool of 3 and three obvtowns.

We force them to vote on each other first. :nod:

[Titus]

Why is that? If we take out shannon, we have:

1. shannon

3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic
5. Titus

6. Lexa

8. ThinkBig

13. PranaDevil

Shannon/Lexa/Devil

Just their negativity towards me. I can't put my finger on it. I feel better about Lexa than Shannon, but by role power, you are likely correct Lexa is scum. I just don't KNOW Lexa is scum.

We have a pool of 3 and three obvtowns.

We force them to vote on each other first. :nod:

I understand your concern about Shannon, though I think her claim checks out. Though I'm most confident about Lexa being scum. I'm 95% sure Lexa is scum and 80% sure Shannon is town.

And that's ok. You're probably right.

But those three cannot hammer any town by themselves if forced to vote within the pool, and at least one scum is forced to bus.

[Titus]

Though keep in mind that negativity is NAI and does not = scum.

Yup, but it is an indicator of such.

You're smart. I like you. You'll pick this shit up quick.

[Titus]

I'll look at that later.

[Titus]

We shouldn't be voting today. It's mylo.

Scum will kill either me or ThinkBig. Me, if they fear my result. ThinkBig, if they want to eliminate conftown.

If any in the three suspects wish to discuss things, they can. But I think we're done here.

[Titus]

are we playing mafia, or is this some bullshit algebra type problem? Either way Titus has led you barking up the wrong tree).

I'm so sigging this after the game. The second part too if you're scum.

[Titus]

Prana, if you had to rate the two suspects and suppose I'm town, how would you rate them? I cannot believe the wall of non-commital of crap I got today. Basically, you have to lynch Lexa or shannon, who do you pick and why?

[Titus]

Titus, have you read the thread yet?

Me read, puhleeze.

[Titus]

If we are confident that someone is scum, we should lynch them today and not allow them to live until tomorrow's LyLo. We have two confirmed town right now which will almost certainly be reduced to one tomorrow.

No. We have one confirmed town.

Stop voting.

[Titus]

One confirmed town Titus?

Yes. That's ThinkBig (well unless moonlogic that you two are buddies together, but that's too far for me). ThinkBig is cleared by a cop check. While I think the odds are astronomical, and I'm treating you as town, you are not confirmed. That's a term I'm rather tight with. You're just probably town.

[Titus]

So regardless of my flip, Thinkbig is confirmed town? How can you trust a result from scum? That doesn't make sense

I don't trust your result perse. It's just pointless to ever even consider TB without going through you, as he cannot be scum without you.

[Titus]

So regardless of my flip, Thinkbig is confirmed town? How can you trust a result from scum? That doesn't make sense

I don't trust your result perse. It's just pointless to ever even consider TB without going through you, as he cannot be scum without you.

You don't trust his results but you think I'm confirmed town? How does this make sense.

For you to be scum, Gin must also be scum.

As I doubt town Gin is dumb enough to fake a clear.

[Titus]

So regardless of my flip, Thinkbig is confirmed town? How can you trust a result from scum? That doesn't make sense

I don't trust your result perse. It's just pointless to ever even consider TB without going through you, as he cannot be scum without you.

You don't trust his results but you think I'm confirmed town? How does this make sense.

For you to be scum, Gin must also be scum.

As I doubt town Gin is dumb enough to fake a clear.

So let's get this straight: You don't believe Gin's results per se, still think I'm confirmed town, and now say that scum!Gin wouldn't be dumb enough to fake a clear?

Honestly Titus, if this wasn't MyLo and I didn't think you were town, I'd probably be voting for you right about now.

English is not your forte.

I said town!Gin wouldn't be dumb enough to fake a clear.
Scum!Gin might, but that still has lynching him before you anyway.

All rational roads lead to treating you as town.

[Titus]

Furthermore, if Gin is scum with Shannon, I'll get a result from what I do tonight.
If Gin is scum with Lexa, I don't get a result tonight.
You die both cases.

If Gin is scum with Devil, then I get a result tonight or die.
If Lexa is scum with Shannon tonight. I don't get a result.
If Devil is scum with Lexa. I don't get a result.

All universes suggest you die or I particularly don't have to care about it.

[Titus]

English is not your forte.

I said town!Gin wouldn't be dumb enough to fake a clear.
Scum!Gin might, but that still has lynching him before you anyway.

All rational roads lead to treating you

1. English isn't my first language
2. I've been up for 15 hours and am completely exhausted. Sorry if I can't read.

My apologies. Go sleep.

[Titus]

The same rational roads that lead to me being town should also lead to Gin being town

I'm anal about the word confirmed. It's a habit of mine. Just look at SC2 Universe to get an idea. I'll say nearly confirmed town or practically town when most say confirmed.

[Titus]

Why is this remarkable? Claim contradictions is stronger evidence than reads

What are yours?

I have a sweet spot for newbies.

[Titus]

@Gin, I'm going to start the wagon. You finish it.

You're still being newbish.

This has a wagon on it that both scum can hammer if Lexa's town. If Lexa's scum, we lose nothing by forcing them to vote first.

[Titus]

Why is this remarkable? Claim contradictions is stronger evidence than reads

I have a sweet spot for newbies.

So that's why you like me?

Pedit beat me to the punch

*squeeze*

[Titus]

I have only seen Titus use the 'not reading' thing when she subs in to a game, not when she's in the game from the start. It seems like the sort of thing she'd keep doing even as town, because it's so useful as scum (as today is showing).

I actually read as scum and not as town. The strategy is not useful for scum, because there's a lack of knowledge and more ways to be caught.

I find it interesting how people keep deflecting from you.

[Titus]

Sorry deflecting from PD. Similar avatars.

[Titus]

Last time I played with town Titus, I don't hemember her doing any VCA

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69517

I was a corpse 1 day too early. Plus, different breaking strategy.

[Titus]

@Lexa, Block Devil. I am tracking Gin. If Gin is egocentric town, we know in a hurry. If he's scum, I one v one him.

[Titus]

The push on me after I clear you is pretty obvious. I never push you as scum (vca) and use dayplay to support.

[Titus]

@Titus, I think it would be a more optimal strategy to track Devil and have Lexa RB devil.

And what if Gin is scum?

I have two actions in that scenario.

I want to force a Gin clear or a no kill.

[Titus]

@Titus, I think it would be a more optimal strategy to track Devil and have Lexa RB devil.

No. If no kill happens, we know nothing.

The alternate is track Lexi.

Clearing Gin is better play.

[Titus]

If I clear Gin, I know it's ego!Gin as opposed to scum Gin.

Devil's just flat out scum.

[Titus]

I have TRs on Lexa and Shannon anyway.

[Titus]

And what if Gin is scum?

I just don't see any world in which Gin is scum. I'd rather you track one of the two slots I'm not sure about.

Keep in mind that there are

two goons.

A "clear" could simply mean that another buddy did the night kill. This is why you track Lexa. If Lexa is able to role block Devil, there is no world in which Lexa and Devil are scum together.

Umm what? Why do you think you know the scumteam roles?

[Titus]

No matter who you track, the other scum can perform the night kill. Keep this in mind. No results =/= that person is town. That will only work if there was only one scum.

Which is why we force a no kill or a clear action.

By forcing a no kill or a clear on Gin, we force Devil being scum and Gin to get over himself assuming consensus is correct.

Usually in day before mylo, you lynch the cop anyway to stop even having to worry here but Garmr imploded.

[Titus]

Um...I don't think I have ever lynched a cop before MyLo...?? Perhaps something I don't understand about mafia theory?

There is the old strategy of a cop faking a clear on his partner to move the game forward, or a cop to buddy a townie by calling them clear and telling them what to do.

By lynching the cop in Lylo plus one day, we clear that up. We cannot do that here. The fact Gin didn't die but a VT did is red flags. Either a) scum want us to fight in the PRs [devil scum] or b) scum are in the PRs.

Gin is well aware of this theory. Deviations are for people who cannot live until lylo.

[Titus]

The action plans I have are the closest thing I have to forcing a clear on Gin. So, Lexa should do that. It forces a clear on you and me.

[Titus]

Fair enough. Though I will probably be dead tonight over Gin. Gin's flip as JOAT will confirm me as town beyond all reasonable doubt, thus it is more likely that I will die than Gin.

And if you die, I have a track result on Gin. Lexi blocks Shannon.

Tomorrow would be Lexi versus Shannon OR one of them postulating I am lying when I clear Gin OR me v Gin.

Most likely, it's a no kill though.

[Titus]

I have only seen Titus use the 'not reading' thing when she subs in to a game, not when she's in the game from the start. It seems like the sort of thing she'd keep doing even as town, because it's so useful as scum (as today is showing).

I actually read as scum and not as town. The strategy is not useful for scum, because there's a lack of knowledge and more ways to be caught.

I find it interesting how people keep deflecting from you.

Maybe because my play has:

a) been viewed as town posting a game, instead of talking bollocks and ignoring the actual game

b) been consistent, as opposed to bouncing around like a complete loon yet somehow using the exact same "VCA" to argue three entirely separate pairings that, if lynched wrong, lose us the game.

c) Not attempted to get everyone off a wagon viewed as scum

d) Not attempted to get everyone off a wagon "I" view as scum

It's got nothing to do with deflecting from me, and everything to do with the fact I'm actually hunting scum, and you have used the exact same numbers to make it fit whatever agenda you are trying to push.

Titus has not only refused to read the game, but the reason behind it (VCA) hasn't been shown to do anything as her reads have been constantly changing since said VCA. Proving, outright, she has zero intention of scum hunting, and that it's all about directing traffic to make sure she and her buddy are safe.

Which leads me to something else... prior to Garmr's inability to play the game, Titus wanted me and Garmr as the scum team. I'll point out that at this stage we had 2 days remaining, thus needing to get two mislynches for scum to win.

As soon as Garmr threw a Trump, we're back to considering Lexa... which has me questioning my Lexa read as I think about it. As why bus a buddy if you can win the game outright on a single fuck up from town? But if she goes back to confusing matters with Lexa, who was already the number one suspect until Titus showed up, we may lynch there and be wrong... which means scum win.

Basically, I don't trust Titus, at all. I'm untrusting of Lexa as well, but Titus herself as made me put that slot into question as I can't exactly tell if she was chainsawing me to buy credibility from Lexa (scum only need 2 town on side at the moment admittedly), so her gunning for my lynch helps there, r if she was chainsawing me to get people off her buddy in Lexa.

Either way, she definitely got everyone off Lexa's wagon, and onto someone people were calling obv. town immediately prior, and solely based on a VCA that cannot ever be trusted as she flip flops all over the place with her reads on it to suit the matter at hand (which is "back the conf. town pairing, and make everyone else seem scummy")

I'm actually much, much more interested in lynching Titus tomorrow as she's by far the scummiest person here.

My main issue with Lexa was more my own VCA, and with Titus bringing that into question, I'm happier lynching the person who is, as far as I'm concerned, known scum, in Titus.

Once we're back for Day 5 of course as I believe we've already voted for a NL.

Devil just wants me roped because I am correct. Notice the discredit focus.

At first it was Titus hasn't read, so she's no use. Now, he argues scum. Then, he'll lynch me. Opportunistic.

He didn't want to claim bc no clue.

[Titus]

I have TRs on Lexa and Shannon anyway.

Derpy derpy derp derp

Up, down, sideways, these reads change more than I change my underwear.

Also...

Titus believes we have 4 JOATs and a roleblocker on the town side...

We lynch Titus tomorrow.

Now outright lying about my reads, and not caring to see the gamestate before trying to push a lylo lynch. He already knows it. He's scum and plans to vote early.

[Titus]

I understand Devil's paranoia about Titus, however, I still have a town read on titus (80% chance Titus is town here) again for the reasons I mentioned regarding All Alone. Also, why does scum!Titus come in and ask whether or not the scum team has day chat? I don't think titus was faking dumb when she asked that.

I tend to think Devil is just pissed that he got caught despite everyone having a TR on him earlier.

Ding. The only question is, who is his partner? Lexa, Gin, or Shannon. Gin is the least likely, but I want to know for sure.

[Titus]

I'm going to be death tunneling Lexa in LyLo which is why I'd much rather you track Lexa than Gin.

Nooo please. Conftown hammers in lylo. Lexa is my TR. Wait for results to see if it IS even lylo.

[Titus]

I may lie and say I use on Gin and use on Lexa. Gin is the superior action though.

[Titus]

@Titus, why is Lexa a town read?

Dayplay. All of it here. Not rushing to attack PD. Remaining calm and not FoSing Gin. Not tearing after Shannon.

[Titus]

I'm not reading all that banter. As soon as I'm no longer buddies with Titus she says she's going to use a shot on me. Hilarious, you're running out of people to try and sneak a lunch through

Dude, your buddying at the start was creepy. Why would I argue to clear you if I am sneaking a lynch through? On the hardest slot in the game?

Cmon man.

[Titus]

1. shannon

3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic
5. Titus
6. Lexa
8. ThinkBig

13. PranaDevil

So from Titus' perspective, the scum team is between Gin/Shannon/Devil. Admittedly, he notes Gin is the least likely. I crossed him off as he will get resolved for sure tonight.

Thus from Titus' perspective, Devil/Shannon is the most probable scum team. However, I have a TR on Shannon.

And this is why we wait for results and determine what is possible. The claim inconsistency is bad, and I am not going to argue SRing Lexa is scummy, just that we need to parse it all.

[Titus]

I think the scumteam was thrown into a panic when I revealed I had all my shots left. That's when Lexa reemerges from nowhere. Does that have to be the solution? No. I am also nonplussed by Lexa not being here.

[Titus]

I'm not reading all that banter. As soon as I'm no longer buddies with Titus she says she's going to use a shot on me. Hilarious, you're running out of people to try and sneak a lunch through

Dude, your buddying at the start was creepy. Why would I argue to clear you if I am sneaking a lynch through? On the hardest slot in the game?

Cmon man.

A simple "Gin did the kill"

I've successfully lynched a doctor because I had a cop shot on her and she was guilty. I thought about this before you even claimed. There are reasons I don't say my theories for game solve because i get juicy info like what you're saying here

That's simplying turning the game into a 1 v 1, where I have to get both townies on my side. If you're town though, why are you presuming this is the case? Why aren't you considering no death?

[Titus]

By your words alone

Nah. Don't think so. I always postulated as no kill or clearing Gin. 1 v 1ing you was not my plan, but if it happens, we'll see.

@TB, Are you ready?

[Titus]

See you tomorrow Titus, you don't have the guts to kill me

That's just Grandstanding. In no universe would any scumteam kill you, even if you're town. That just confclears TB.

VOTE: No lynch

[Titus]

See you tomorrow Titus, you don't have the guts to kill me

That's just Grandstanding. In no universe would any scumteam kill you, even if you're town. That just confclears TB.

VOTE: No lynch

Exactly. You can't touch me Titus. You'll kill TB but there goes your only ally. Or you could kill one of the remaining townies that got crazy WIFOM rocking

Now, my turn to grandstand for a bit.

You call TB my ally, which implies we're on the same side and you know it.
Why the 180 on Devil? Why you attack me as soon as I postulate to clear you? Because my action likely will not clear you and you already decided not to shoot me.

TB decides this. He should go into detail and see who is being honest.

[Titus]

?

[Titus]

Actually, your claim is what makes you suspucious.

You've been let to live so long while claiming clears and I am an investigative Joat.

A town player would discuss things with his confclear. I don't need him to tell me my reads, but we all should go the same direction and get on the same page since mylo/lylo and scum are unlikely to bus.

[Titus]

A town player would discuss things with his confclear.

Read the thread. Gin and I had several pages of chat just between us.

That's relevant how? My point, if Gin is scum, is that he's buddying you with his clear. 10000 or zero pages is not relevant to the premise.

Gin knows its a pretty strong stance for town me to take that I follow the VCA not words. He wanted to see how accurate it was. That's not someone who is considering I am scum.

[Titus]

He doesn't want to discuss things with you NOW. He wants you to sheep him, rather than see his opportunistic turn. I was hard clear until I did not push Lexa, the designated mislynch but nsisted on Devil.

[Titus]

That's relevant how? My point, if Gin is scum, is that he's buddying you with his clear. 10000 or zero pages is not relevant to the premise.

Literally a contradiction from

A town player would discuss things with his conf clear

And he's not. He's talking AT you. Not with you.

Not a contradiction. Just English issue.

[Titus]

I can talk at you for 100000 pages. The idea is Gin wants you to tunnel Lexa, when the answer is Devil. He's not interested in considering Devil as a suspect. He's not interested in hashing things out. He's interested in talking down to you.

[Titus]

You were all buddy-buddy with Gin when he TRd yoi.

Nope. I suspected Gin first, then he turned on me. Get the timing right.

[Titus]

Also Titus, I suspected your slot before you even joined. Checkmate

Then why buddy me. It's clear that you weren't treating me as a suspect throughout the thread.

You have 1 goal. Mislynch Lexa.

Why do you spend so much time shading me if you know that Devil/Gin scumteam will just be proven wrong by nightplay or no death will happen? Because it is you and Devil.

[Titus]

There is no way in hell that Gin is scum. Sorry, but I don't think he is that competent of a scum player.

Lynch Titus tomorrow. Period.

And that's why Gin clears you and busses karnos. They couldn't get a mislynch off.

[Titus]

I don't see how you are literally suspecting everyone. Classic scum tactic in MyLo/LyLo is to make the lynch pool as wide as possible.

Classic townplay is to eliminate options. My plan modconfirms 3 townies or sets up a 1 v 1. In lylo, you go through everyone. See In Memory or Steven Universe 2 lylos.

[Titus]

There is no way in hell that Gin is scum. Sorry, but I don't think he is that competent of a scum player.

Lynch Titus tomorrow. Period.

And that's why Gin clears you and busses karnos. They couldn't get a mislynch off.

Hahahaha. He cleared me after a Garmr started a wagon on me. He could easily have lynched me if he wanted to.

Nope. Try again. That's utterly inconsistent with the VCs.

[Titus]

The problem with ISOing VC and analyzing them is that they don't tell the full story.

Charisma is buddying. Claims and VCs DO tell the whole story. The only reason to read upon sub in is to fake a claim or if you have something like bodyguard where you fuck up reads if you don't.

[Titus]

So what, Garmr voted you. Scum were incapable of swinging a mislynch D1. Gin clears you. Suddenly town is mislynching rather than looking at Devil bus.

[Titus]

I gotta go. Remember this, wait for results. Do your homework. Especially over nightphase. Reset expectations. Then, check theories. If you put in the work, that's an awesome thing as feedback can be given.

[Titus]

I gotta go. Remember this, wait for results. Do your homework. Especially over nightphase. Reset expectations. Then, check theories. If you put in the work, that's an awesome thing as feedback can be given.

Coming from you, that's hilarious Miss won't read the thread

Doing what I feel to be garbage would not be useful. It wouldn't check my theory.

[Titus]

I gotta go. Remember this, wait for results. Do your homework. Especially over nightphase. Reset expectations. Then, check theories. If you put in the work, that's an awesome thing as feedback can be given.

Coming from you, that's hilarious Miss won't read the thread

Doing what I feel to be garbage would not be useful. It wouldn't check my theory.

Are you admitting that it will tear your theory to shreads?

Nope. You can look at any recent game I finish. I just don't read. Your read through would prove what we already know. Town were in sync and lynching scum before Gin captured you.

[Titus]

Devil is scum. I will be checking my theory if Devil Gin with results.

[Titus]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69831

Case in point, VCA nailed scum. Only lynched in lylo due to modkill.

[Titus]

Who do each of you want me to be targeting with my roleblock?

Devil.

[Titus]

Ok, nobody vote. I don't have my result yet.

[Titus]

Ok, I have my result. It was no result.

So either Gin is an ascetic and lied about it, or Lexa roleblocked me and not Devil.

Cross em.

[Titus]

Ok, I have my result. It was no result.

So either Gin is an ascetic and lied about it, or Lexa roleblocked me and not Devil.

Cross em.

And you aren't voting Lexa because?

[Titus]

So you're saying you tracked or watched me?

I don't know what you did or what your issue is

I tracked or followed you.

I got "no result".

That only occurs if a) you're ascetic [immune to all actions but kills] or b) Lexa lied and roleblocked me.

There's a longshot c but it is an extreme violation of Occam's Razor.