Night and Day Mafia (Game Over)

[mastina]

Oh and for fun, a pagetop postgame. <3

[Alisae]

There are a few things I want to say so this is a huge wallpost about those things in realtion to the game. Basicly there's gonna be 4 parts to this. A. Yay we won B. Why Town Lost C. Thoughts on the Setup D. I'm taking abreak.

--

First off,
I am so proud of this scumteam.
If we had someone that was better the Nos maybe we coulda gone further but otherwise I don't think we would have won if we had any other scumteam.
Like,
I can't say anything but praise for this team I am so happy I replaced into this slot.

We used our actions to the best of our ability early and then later mastered the usage of our actions (even if that meant rolecopping Titus for safety procautions)
We eradicated town with play. Hell for the most part because of actions we put town's tail between their fucking legs, having nothing else better to do then chop each other's head off one by one.
We setup the association tells needed to win.
And our fallen teammates fell to fucking set us up to carry.

Nosferatu got shot for us and took one for the team. (I have no memory of what Kelvin did sadly )
We had MathBlade baffle them with bullshit that we're going to use to win.
Quantum helped me become the beacon of light I am for this town.
And I am the desperado that this town needs, just to turn back on them and laugh in front of their faces.

I even felt like there were a few times where the town just couldn't look to anyone but the scumteam.
We did it, we won. And I'm proud of ywall.

Even tho I felt scared that as always I wasn't going to be able to actually win once we got to MyLo
We did it, and I am so proud of ywall.

And there are 68 pages of the scum PT and most of it is praise and me getting really hyped because I was just so proud of this scumteam.

Like, even tho I scumslipped about like 20 different times after reading the dead PT.

btw Quantum, the one thing I kinda want to say to you is you stopped putting in effort since Day 3
It shows

--

Tho I felt like there is a point where re-evaluating is important. A lot of people had scumreads on Titus for reasons I couldn't even comprehend myself. I don't actually know why people were scumreading Titus tbh, I kinda just didn't see it. I kinda felt like there was a point where town kinda just stopped playing? Like the first two days was just town ripping off it's own head and it made me really annoyed. I don't even remember what happened the first two dies other then the town deciding to kill itself. And then we just took control and the game seemed really easy. Bulba was the only one that was trying it seemed like and he had 0 creditability because the gamestate was crafted so that he wouldn't have any creditability. Like, we kinda made the gamestate this way but atleast put up a harder fight seesh.

--

This is kinda really oppressive on scum. Can't have all the scum in light or you'll get found out. Can't have 0 scum in light otherwise town has complete reign over actions. That's why scum's powers were so strong, if they acted they would get caught and witch hunts would begin. Also the massclaim arguement really turned me off because our powers are really scummy if we claim them. Luckily the dark prevents massclaim from actually going through. A lot of the invests can get overwhelming and the game can probably just be solved with them if they do their actions right? Maybe I took a wrong approach to the switching mechanic and with an idea that there is a certain way you have to play this.

--


This was a fun game an all, but I'm probably going to retire. And by retire I mean take like a small break. I'm probably still going to play, and I'm probably going to still mod, it's just, I Don't feel like the way I judgments about the game and the player base is healthy for me? Idunno if that makes sense but bare with me.

For the most part I was just a capslock rage egoposter. Somehow site meta told me "It's okay to be like this." However what it actually turns me into is an egotistical, eliteist asshole. And I mean, I hate towns and how they play nowadays. And my towngame is super strong as is. As in, if there was a point where my scumgame was stronger, that is definitely not the case now. I don't think it ever has been the case quite frankly but others think differently (hi nancy how were you today?)

Like
All I can end up doing right now is bash bash and bash. Is anything constructive really coming out of that? I don't think so. Like, it's showing in my play. I'm supposed to be a Bright Knight who protects people from bullying not the enemy who wants you to force yourself into a corner and cry. Like, I'm supposed to be a nice person. Except now I'm not. And I'm still trying to figure out what happened? Was it because my emotions grew to hate the game and hate everyone who plays it? Or was it because I have reads I want to push forward and I hate it when people don't trust me so I get louder and louder and louder and by that point I just shut down. Or I just wanted to just start venting all of my frustrations and while doing that I just so happen to forget that there's a person on the other side of the monitor.

Is mafia even supposed to be a game that is meant for me?

I have 2 goals currently as of writing this. A. To improve my scumgame so it's just as scary as my towngame, which btw, I'm an easy read depending on your skill level. If you're good at the game you're probably going to read me correctly. If you're not, then you will either get fooled or make me really angry. But anyways, I feel my scumgame is just lacking. Like, in Nightless games I can make it to the final final day for sure but I can't ever seem to take the win home. Or here the only reason why I probably won was because I coasted off of establishing the illusion that I was conftown (and this is probably my best scumgame to date).

B. Is to just, maybe try to enjoy the game? I don't enjoy the game at it's current state. I hate it, and if someone can't see what I am seeing I hate them for not being able to see that. I'm judgmental. I hate most townplay nowadays. It depresses me. I'm quite frankly an ass. I was a nice person. I did look out for those who were weak. I don't do that anymore. I want to learn how to do this and just, how to not get angry at people when it comes to this game.

Anyways, yeah.
This game was a blast for me.
I haven't had as much fun since Gay Mafia and Spring Fever. Those were a fun games.
Sorry for being an ass.

[Alisae]

Mastina I wanna hear your thoughts about this!

[Alisae]

I mean about the game because I mean
I was kinda obvscumming because I didn't give a fuck.
I was conftown
I get to do whatever

But like I still wanna hear how you viewed the game.

[EddieFenix]

*raising hand* Just want to be the one that pointed out that A2 NEEDED to be watched because I felt they were scum, ate rope, NO ONE WATCHED A2!!! AND NOW WE'RE HERE!!! XD. I TRIED to warn you guys in my death throws, but nooooooooope lol.

[mastina]

But like I still wanna hear how you viewed the game.

Well I think that the game played out more or less how I was expecting it to so I'm reasonably happy about that.

When I created the game, I envisioned the town having the power to steal members from a side in order to equalize the game, in a sort of competitive mechanic, where they would want to steal certain players. Think vaguely like a survivor game or some clone/knockoff version of one if nothing else. (For instance the title of the light/dark PTs references a SyFy show I watched the beginning of which was essentially Survivor under some weird different name where there were two halves: a futuristic side with advanced technology, and a primitive side with caveman living style.)

The mafia switch mechanic was envisioned as the mafia, being dirty rotten cheaters in said game, unfairly influencing the sides. I envisioned that while the town was theoretically united, that there would be some cross-topic tension, in that those in the dark PT would be more likely to work well together and those in the light PT would be more likely to work together and both would naturally be more suspicious of the other, and that later on they may start to get doubts and turn on their own side.

That more or less is what happened exactly.

The second aspect of the game was from a more mafia-based standpoint: I envisioned the game as a sort-of self-balancing act. If people lynched/killed within the mountainous half, they would slowly gain PRs; if people lynched/killed within the role madness half, they would slowly lose PRs. This way, the mafia would always--at least theoretically--be in a spot where they could be caught by the town (because of the influx of new roles), but if the town did well, the mafia wouldn't be placed at a massive disadvantage (because of the loss of roles).

When I made the actual roles for the game, I didn't actually put that much thought into them and that was a weakness in the setup. All the town roles were ridiculously town roles; all the scum roles were ridiculously scum roles. Scum had two reasonable fakeclaims which were viable via their boons, but the scum were blatantly scumfucks otherwise. And their roles were the most powerful scum roles you can get. Strongman, Redirector, Busdriver, Ninja, Roleblocker, (Day)Vig. These are about as strong of roles you can possibly give scum.

Admittedly they were up against very strong town roles, and they needed ways to break synergy--but I honestly failed to account for how scum in number in the game would effectively make things disproportionately mountainous by nullifying the town's PRs. (There was never a moment where the town could have ever possibly used their PRs effectively.) I was hoping it'd balance out in the end but I didn't put much deliberate thought into the interactions and that was a fault in my design.

However, ultimately, I don't think the weak role design compared to the mechanic was that much of a problem. Ultimately I feel like it did loosely balance out--while luck of the draw would determine things a fair amount and then swing would be incredibly high, the town had many opportunities to absolutely crush this game if things had gone even slightly differently and even as-was the scum had many spots where they were almost fucked completely; the scum ultimately won the game because they used what they had ridiculously well and lucked out big-time in absolutely dominating/controlling the night actions.

I can at least promise you that this game's sequel will have more thought given to the roles and make better use of the mechanic. I can't promise it'll be balanced (it's a little crazy) because inherent to the idea of a role madness game is lots of swing. But it'll at least have some more deliberate thought put in. I may still fuck up, but I'll fuck up in DIFFERENT ways!

As for play this game. I do think the scumteam did really well. They dominated the night-game. When it came to dayplay I felt the scum had some strong spots and other weaker spots, since there were times when they were under absolutely no threat and yet other times when they were at incredible risk. Overall reasonably-competent performance by them.

The town wasn't terrible all the time since there were times where there were players that genuinely came close to having the answers, but they lost it rather quickly, and the level of vitriol they held for one another certainly didn't help. They didn't have any level of real teamwork, and you can go "I told you I was right; you should have listened to me!" all day if you want but if you can't work with the members of the town then those reads won't do anything. Even those who had it right though tended to be led astray by thinking roles = alignment. I am one of THE strongest proponents for play > role, in that play trumps role 100% of the time, and this game is a fair demonstration of exactly why I hold that policy. Things like lynching Creature off of POE, letting A2/QuantumRadius go off of role, the like.

To be fair, the scum did encourage this somewhat, by making multiple kills which favored rolekill > playkill (in that they killed roles threatening to them rather than players threatening to them), and scum's kills do tend to influence the town's mindset (town sees bunch of players with nothing special role-wise die, they know to scumhunt; town sees bunch of players with strong roles die, they tend to think the kills were role-based and thus get into solving-the-game-via-role-mode), but this was still one of the major shortcomings of the town.

In short: I don't think the town was absolute shit but they were far, far weaker than the scumteam; the scumteam may not have been absolutely stellar, but performed much much better than the town. Were I to give the town a rating it'd be in the 30-45 percentile; were I to give the scum a rating, it'd be in the 75-85 percentile. A reasonably-competent scumteam victory over a not-abysmal-but-sub-mediocre town, but I could be absolutely wrong about this.

[Alisae]

*raising hand* Just want to be the one that pointed out that A2 NEEDED to be watched because I felt they were scum, ate rope, NO ONE WATCHED A2!!! AND NOW WE'RE HERE!!! XD. I TRIED to warn you guys in my death throws, but nooooooooope lol.

Apparently the new sitemeta is faking dayvigis makes you town

Cowbells was more on point then you and no one cared about him

[Alisae]

Well played scum!

What was the plan if I had hidden behind Bulba?

Not that I ever had any intention of doing that. I couldn't see any reason to do what we told scum I was going to do.

I actually thought that QR was town, but still set my alarm clock to wake up in the middle of the night to post that I was hiding behind QR. I knew that Bulba was going after QR today and thought I could prevent a mislynch.

Oh yeah I forgot about this.

Basicly today we were going to have Quantum set up association ties with Titus and slip I was town while faking the hider guilty on Titus. Quantum would be pushing me, I would be pushing Titus or Quantum, Titus would probably be pushing Quantum. Basicly this gave me leeway to either go from Gamewinning mode to Harbussing mode. Had we done this correctly Titus would have been the lynch the following day if one existed.


Also
you hiding was gamethrowing.
If there may be a chance you may create MyLo/LyLo by either killing another player (vigi) or kill yourself (like you did as a hider) then don't.

[Alisae]

mastina I think this would create more interesting gameplay if scum had boons while in the dark instead of in the light.

[Nosferatu]

I kinda wish I was town. Reading on my own before i replaced in, I had math and kelvin (my own slot lol) nailed. That would've felt good. Getting vigged was hilarious though, gj team

[Alisae]

Nosferatu I give you a scum win and you disgrace me with that avi?????

I DEMAND YOU CHANGE IT AT ONCE!

[Nosferatu]

Nosferatu I give you a scum win and you disgrace me with that avi?????

I DEMAND YOU CHANGE IT AT ONCE!

ITS BASED OFF A MANGA ITS OK

[Creature]

My mislynch costed town the game. It was so obvious there was a bus driver speacially to Bulbazak who decided to just lynch me anyway.

QR would have been lynched and A2 likely caught in the process.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well played scum!

What was the plan if I had hidden behind Bulba?

Not that I ever had any intention of doing that. I couldn't see any reason to do what we told scum I was going to do.

I actually thought that QR was town, but still set my alarm clock to wake up in the middle of the night to post that I was hiding behind QR. I knew that Bulba was going after QR today and thought I could prevent a mislynch.

Oh yeah I forgot about this.

Basicly today we were going to have Quantum set up association ties with Titus and slip I was town while faking the hider guilty on Titus. Quantum would be pushing me, I would be pushing Titus or Quantum, Titus would probably be pushing Quantum. Basicly this gave me leeway to either go from Gamewinning mode to Harbussing mode. Had we done this correctly Titus would have been the lynch the following day if one existed.


Also
you hiding was gamethrowing.
If there may be a chance you may create MyLo/LyLo by either killing another player (vigi) or kill yourself (like you did as a hider) then don't.

I disagree
I think vigging is good after a day that stalled to NL, as a second attempt at the lynch. I also think it's not throwing the way you described it, but if it was in a case where the game would go into LyLo if the vig didn't shoot and they didn't have a damn good reason, shooting would be almost throwing.

[QuantumRadius]

btw Quantum, the one thing I kinda want to say to you is you stopped putting in effort since Day 3It shows

yeah I went into full-on coast mode, which was where I felt I needed to be to not get caught
regardless, this was a really fun game
I discovered that I like to tell the town exactly what I'm doing as scum
so there's that

[Aristophanes]

mastina I think this would create more interesting gameplay if scum had boons while in the dark instead of in the light.

This would he really neat actually!

[Aristophanes]

Also sorry for...well, what little I did this game. I was gonna bet into it pretty intensely on the day after we died had I lived. Of course, at that point, I was likely to push a Bulba/Titus scumteam. But I was going to read everyone left alive and actually sort them, so who knows where that would have ended.

But yeah. No more larges for me and far fewer games. Ive learned my lesson. 1 at a time from now on (maybe 2 if something special comes up). I'm just not able to get into them like I used to.

[Aristophanes]

Oh, and I forgot to say GG to scum!

Mever would have thought Alisae was Scum Dayvig!

[Bulbazak]

So, I'll give my thoughts later, but this game has made me consider starting the design process for Ikaruga Mafia 2.

Eddie, I'm going to include you in the design process, because you have a habit of flaking from my games. I'd prefer to have you on the design/review team.

@Ginngie/Mastin: Would you like to help design or review, or are you actually interested in playing when the time comes?

[Aronis]

My mislynch costed town the game. It was so obvious there was a bus driver speacially to Bulbazak who decided to just lynch me anyway.

QR would have been lynched and A2 likely caught in the process.

I still don't get why any town person thought that was a good lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

My mislynch costed town the game. It was so obvious there was a bus driver speacially to Bulbazak who decided to just lynch me anyway.

QR would have been lynched and A2 likely caught in the process.

Your reads are decent but you need to work on being charismatic

[TheWayItEnds]

all of you are too stupid to play mafia

[TheWayItEnds]

Oh whoops I think I meant to quote this instead.
Silly me.

if town lynches bulb for this they're even stupider than i keep calling them.

when the person getting guiltied knows that the person who has the guilty isnt scum still maybe everyone else in the game should consider pulling their heads from wayyyyyyy up inside their asses is all im saying.

[TheWayItEnds]

BTD6_maker - 9 (Titus, Bulbazak, Vedith, Mathblade, Rautherdir, Ginngie, QuantumRadius, A2, Aronis)

TheWayItEnds - 6 (Bulbazak, Titus, Vedith, QuantumRadius, A2, 79 CE)

Creature - 5 (QuantumRadius, Vedith, Bulbazak, texcat, Titus)

Bulbazak - 4 (A2, QuantumRadius, dramonic, Vedith)

These fucking overlaps though.

[Creature]

My mislynch costed town the game. It was so obvious there was a bus driver speacially to Bulbazak who decided to just lynch me anyway.

QR would have been lynched and A2 likely caught in the process.

Your reads are decent but you need to work on being charismatic

I already do my job by being pretty direct.