Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[Sephiroth]

Oh hey this game started and its already 5 pages. Reading up, will post later tonight.

[Sephiroth]

overwatch is an expensive tf2 ripoff

VOTE: vote: carca

overwatch is an expensive tf2 ripoff

League of legends is better than over watch.

VOTE: garmr

VOTE: dva

Flubb why are you voting Creature instead of dva now? I wanted to sheep the first vote.

[Sephiroth]

Heroes of the Storm is a far superior MOBA, don't @ me

[Sephiroth]

Why am I scum Sephiroth?

I'm sheeping 111. Dunno if you're scum yet.

Heroes of the Storm is a far superior MOBA, don't @ me

Never played it. But I do like diablo 2's necromancer.

You should give it a shot sometime. Its pretty different but I think the XP/leveling system is more streamlined and less frustrating

Flubb why are you voting Creature instead of dva now? I wanted to sheep the first vote.

I want creature locked into exactly what they are trying to convey with their records, and a wagon is a good motivation for that

Fair enough. I'm being kind of a hypocrite voting dva anyways since I'm talking about HotS above

VOTE: creature

[Sephiroth]

I'm never obv town I thought I was doing better in my last game but after it finished I realised 3 people with night actions checked me so it wasn't through my own actions

To be fair, I investigated you specifically for one post right before a scum lynch, not because of your play in a general sense.

[Sephiroth]

Also to be fair, one of those investigations was a mafia vanilla cop investigating you.

[Sephiroth]

Hey creature do you mind going through at least one of the slots and explaining which posts fall in which category and why? I understand the idea of a like/dislike/null paradigm but I want to see what the thought process is. Its really just kind of a black box right now and I'd like it to not be entirely.

[Sephiroth]

creature ^^

so this isn't missed

[Sephiroth]

Yes, thats generally the effect of bolding someones name as the first word in a post. Is there some reason you feel the need to quip about it rather than contribute something worthwhile to the discussion?

[Sephiroth]

@ofrhz - yeah I might be guessing at why you made that town read, but it seemed like you would spot the reason I’m thinking based on that game we just finished

I think everyone who was in that game are townreading him for that reason, which actually makes me wary about how easy it would be for him to fake that as scum.

[Sephiroth]

Oh I thought you were talking about RCE.

[Sephiroth]

Yes, thats generally the effect of bolding someones name as the first word in a post. Is there some reason you feel the need to quip about it rather than contribute something worthwhile to the discussion?

first off no

im making quips because of how laughably dumb that is

one thing is if you bolded it to make it apparent you were addressing him in particular

another is if you wanted to catch his attention so you made the text bigger

you literally bolded has name in the post under it and then you acted like this was going to be the flare in the darkness that would catch his attention

simply bolding a name makes almost no noticeable difference when your eyes are glazed over and you're scrolling down, its the same size and the thickness difference is literally pixels

So two things that are immediately apparent from your response here:
1. You are objectively wrong, and your decision to attack my intelligence over an inherently flawed point of view is amusing, but irrelevant for now.
2. You are clearly more focused on arguing with someone than you are on finding scum. I bet you were just elated to see that I questioned your post so you had someone to throw some abuse towards.

go somewhere else with your self-righteous "instead of contributing to discussion" bs

Sorry but no thanks. We're 200+ posts into a game of mafia and you have yet to say anything of consequence other than to pick up a literally irrelevant detail in how I posted, just so you could get a much coveted chance to call another person dumb (again, ignoring for now how objectively wrong you are about the point in question.)

How bout you take a crack at finding scum instead of self-consciously throwing personal attacks at me?

[Sephiroth]

wow. im so ashamed that im not catching scum 200 posts into the game like this guy

Me asking creature about his methodology is not nothing. me discussing my votes and explaining as I go when I change is not nothing. My ISO shows the beginning of trying to build reads.

Your ISO is actually literally nothing. Like I get what you're going for but its page 9 and despite your best efforts to protect your original point I am making clear attempts to gain reads and move the game forward. You so far? Complaining about the mod and then insulting my means of making sure my question gets answered. Your greatest contribution so far has been some odd sort of responsive OMGUS attack. But I feel like I've got what I wanted out of you so I'm glad that I poked you there.

I'm not arguing that my posts are amazing or the golden standard of scumhunting. What I'm arguing is that you saw 8 pages of content, saw my secondary post and though, yeah, thats what I'll post about. The problem I have isn't that you aren't doing a lot scumhunting, its that you're doing NONE, not showing hints of starting, and CHOOSING to insult me for something that isn't relevant to catching scum. Even now you're wasting energy attacking my early attempts at hunting why failing to analyze anything yourself.

Feel free to shit on how I scumhunt, but if you read any of my games you'll see I prescribe to the poke and prod method of hunting, and I'm just getting started. What exactly are you doing?

[Sephiroth]

Nosferatu, Sephiroth, Dva, FA_Q2 would be my guess. It would be 4 scum in a 19 player list right?

wish i fucking was given how i need a goddamn key phrase to confirm in a normal game with no special rules whatsoever

VOTE: inferno

Nosferatu, Sephiroth, Dva, FA_Q2 would be my guess. It would be 4 scum in a 19 player list right?

wish i fucking was given how i need a goddamn key phrase to confirm in a normal game with no special rules whatsoever

Oh, atleast I'm not the only one who struggled to confirm

how many tries did it take you

i tried 3 times before i got it

read the rules like 5 before I saw that it was in between rules 17 and 18

because i read by number like what i assume a regular fucking person would do

just stack associatives as far as you can

oh yeah he's really gonna notice it now that you bolded it

This was your ISO when I made the point about youu not contributing. Do you REALLY want to compare what we had done up to that point in good faith and say they are equivalent? Gimme a break lol.

[Sephiroth]

Like, you had not engaged with a single game related thing. Still haven't, in fact, unless you count suggesting a policy lynch (pretty sure it was a joke)

[Sephiroth]

Ok now you have since I wrote that post, so I take that back.

[Sephiroth]

My issue was more with you choosing specifically to focus on attacking something that you (as far as I can tell) didn't even find scummy instead of just going straight for something like 212. Now I've never played with you before and maybe randomly lashing out at other people's posts over some small detail is how you get off, but to me it shows a lack of interest in scumhunting. Its also amazing the reaction I got from just questioning that quip and your play so far, and to me very interesting that you come out with 212 right after that little argument. Almost like you remembered you're supposed to be scumhunting.

[Sephiroth]

@sephiroth, for some reason, I think your posts were attempting to tunnel. You also took back what you said immediately after. I don't think those are likely to come from someone who is town.
VOTE: sephiroth, at least for now.

I took it back because I read post 212 which I hadn't seen while writing 218. The second half of that post was no longer true given that 212 was obviously engaging with the game.

Can you explain what you mean by attempting to tunnel? Very interested in what you think that means and why you think its a scumtell.

[Sephiroth]

Not for nothing, but thats a complete misunderstanding of my point. There was never a point where I claimed to be doing a lot. I claimed to be engaging with the game and beginning to scum hunt, and accused you of doing nothing at all.

[Sephiroth]

I don't think you understand how little engagement I was looking for. If you want to accuse someone of coasting take a hard look at your posts up until we started arguing.

[Sephiroth]

Hey man, its all in the interest of poking and prodding. I've never played with you before so I'm happy we could have this chat.

I still think its an odd choice to make that post and also an odd choice to make that point about bolding. When I started on this site there were no vote tags and mods relied on bolding to actually count votes. Bolding what literally invented as a means of making text stand out. So I dunno. It just doesn't smell right to me. I'm willing to move on for now though.

[Sephiroth]

You said that you were townreading me because scum wouldn't point to their ISO and claim to be doing stuff when you responded to 2008. That's the point I was responding to. It was you who decided this was a comparison of you and I rather than me questioning why you had made 0 game related posts at that point in time.

[Sephiroth]

er, moving me up in your rankings. Maybe not townreading.

[Sephiroth]

You said that you were townreading me because scum wouldn't point to their ISO and claim to be doing stuff when you responded to 2008. That's the point I was responding to. It was you who decided this was a comparison of you and I rather than me questioning why you had made 0 game related posts at that point in time.

when you said "instead of contributing to any discussion" I took that as an implication that you were contributing, because why would you throw stones when you live in a glass house?

thats why i brought up the comparison to say that you didn't have much in the way of an iso either

fair enough but I would argue that my post to which you originally responded was in fact my first attempt at seriously poking someone. So I had just started to do so when you make your post. I would argue that my house was made of plexi-glass at that point

[Sephiroth]

I can understand both of your points, but Nosferatu's posts seem a lot more relaxed and likely to come from town. However, Sephiroth, your posts are somewhat leaning scummy.

You are welcome to that read, but this is also just kind of how I talk.

[Sephiroth]

Then what was the point of it in the first place?

[Sephiroth]

Sephiroth, explain what the first to votes here were for?

I've played a lot of overwatch over the past couple years so I was jokingly voting them for badmouthing the game.

[Sephiroth]

Then what was the point of it in the first place?

I wanted to see if I could keep it up then do my analysis later.

You said you classified most of them on gut, right?

[Sephiroth]

Nos and I hissed at each other for a while if that interests you

[Sephiroth]

I wanted to policy lynch AP coming into this game but he's growing on me now.

You have to admit the whole thing is a little charming.

[Sephiroth]

I best remember Flubb for helping me win a game as scum despite wavemode having essentially a guilty on me at the time.

Good times.

[Sephiroth]

reading.

[Sephiroth]

Man there's really not much going on in this game, huh.

Are we suuuure FL is town?

[Sephiroth]

VOTE: ofrhz

[Sephiroth]

I will be V/LA until Tuesday.

I will still try to post but I will be attending my sister's wedding and also need to take part in the dress rehearsal.

[Sephiroth]

I dunno Shattiel seems town to me.

[Sephiroth]

But I guess I can see where Garmr is coming from pushing them.

[Sephiroth]

Flubber seems more engaged than when I played him and he was town. Gonna read some flubb games to get a sense of if thats at all AI for him.

[Sephiroth]

Can we please not poe lynch me when I'm v/la? I'll be back tomorrow evening. Thanks.

[Sephiroth]

Don't think I said was responding to fls vote.

[Sephiroth]

I'm posting from my phone and only skimmed the thread. Looked like my name is being tossed around in a lot of poe pools. Maybe I'm wrong? Not sure why you're giving me a hard time about this, I'm just saying I'm back and reiterating that I've been on v/la since Thursday.

[Sephiroth]

Your concern with what I posted seems disingenuous to me. Just throwing that out there. See ya tomorrow homies.

[Sephiroth]

This reaction is even more disingenuous o.o

[Sephiroth]

Like I'm still on v/la till tomorrow but saw votes on me and more than one person saying I was in the poe pool and just posted I'll be back tomorrow please don't poe me. I then proceeded to openly admit I had only skimmed the thread when you questioned me. You act like need not having read the thread is some smoking gun when I never claimed to be caught up. Quite the opposite, in fact.

You keep using the term 'shading' as a blanket term and misrepping what I'm saying. I never said it was unfair to ask about anything, just that it seems disingenuous. Do you know the difference? I never 'shaded' my wagon, I asked not to be poed until I got to post. Do you know the difference there?

The aggression with which you're pushing me now seems unlikely from a town perspective, put on, and frankly reeks of scum who is trying too hard to sell the moment they've made up their mind about a sr. The double down ' ya know what, now I'm sure you're scum!' is see through as fuck.

Now kindly stop saying silly shit so I can stop posting from my phone, go to bed, and catch up for real tomorrow.

[Sephiroth]

It's something that you say when you get a bad vibe from someone's post and want to say as much. It was like the least aggressive way I could have acknowledged that vibe lol. If you think that's a parting shot then you are an idiot.

Also I don't really think you're an idiot, I just threw that in because I thought it might be beneficial to show you what I would characterize as a parting shot. You know, just to compare.

Good night.

[Sephiroth]

I feel like I'd probably just rather be the D1 lynch then get caught up at this point. Especially if I have to try to deal with everyone sheeping FL's nonexistent reason for dubbing me scum. I wonder if he's still salty about our last game together or just chose a name at random. Don't think I'll be signing up for any large games or games with FL in the near future.

[Sephiroth]

Willing to bet there are 1-2 scum on my wagon.

[Sephiroth]

I hope this will be a shining example of how FL is actually not nearly as good at this game as people think he is.

[Sephiroth]

I’m actively phoning it in this day. I’m pretty sure I’ve made that BLATANTLY clear.

Yeah, but you phoning it in has created a wagon with literally no substance for me to defend against. It really makes the game completely un-fun. Last time we played together you did the same thing to me (except you were scum). Do you have something against me as a person? I don't really want to filter the games I sign up for based on whether you're in them but if this is what happens every game then I have to. It feels shitty and personal that its happened two games in a row with you being two different alignments.

[Sephiroth]

(by two games in a row, I mean this game and the only other game we've played together)

[Sephiroth]

Me phoning it in and creating a wagon with no substance is pretty indicative of the the wagon itself, though, isn’t it?

Where’s scum on your wagon?

This helps us as a town, even if you’re scum, which is why I think it’s good to have you answer this, or at least look into them individually.

I'm actually not a strong player in large games. I really have difficulty reading people when the playerbase is this large. I would never describe myself as an elite player in terms of obvtowning myself. I've gotten better at playing town, but my scum game has always far outshone my town game. To answer your question more directly, I found Performer and Ofhrs to have the most questionable votes on my wagon. Particularly naked voting me after the exchange with Dva without commenting on said exchange at all (Ofhrz) seemed lazy. I already stated that I don't believe Dvas push on me was genuine, particularly the post in which she decided I was more than a poe lynch seemed performative. I don't know enough about Dvas meta to nail down if I feel like shes scum from that though.

My 'giving up' has more to do with feeling that you have singled me out, (after having done so before) and knowing that people for whatever reason (granted you're conftown this game so it makes more sense than usual) just follow whatever you say frequently (like how you almost got me lynched in that game). I have no idea whats going on inside your head, I have no idea whether you believe or don't believe the shit you say, and I think its completely reasonable given what I know about how you play to assume that this is a serious push and suspicion from your point of view. Its hard to take the time and energy to actually reread when it feels like I'll get lynched for a combination of poe and 'FL said so'.

[Sephiroth]

Granted, given what you've posted recently, I'll see what I can do. BUT I'm also at work. Its easy to respond to posts as they come in but I can't take an hour off to reread at the current moment.

[Sephiroth]

Does Dva normally just vote people whose opinions differ from her own, or who have mildly offended her sensibilities? Asking for a friend.

[Sephiroth]

a) the 'asking for a friend' is a joke
b) Wait, are you talking about me saying idiot or calling her post disingenuous? Because just to be clear she voted me directly after I said that her interest in my posting was disingenuous, and it was 100% not related to my use of the word idiot, which came later. Calling someone's post disingenuous is not name calling, it is saying you think that what they're posting is contrived and not an authentic post, ie scum trying to appear town. I used the word idiot in passing and even then I was using it to illustrate how silly it was to characterize my post as a parting blow and even said immediately that I DIDN'T consider her an idiot. If you read that full exchange you would understand that I do not consider her an idiot and also that there was a very clear purpose to using that word.

Try again?

[Sephiroth]

response to 1099 btw.

[Sephiroth]

My point is, that's how I saw it. I can only go off what I'm seeing itt .

I mean, its objectively incorrect to say that she voted me for being a big meanie or whatever, because she voted me prior to that happening. Does it not bother you that your opinion is completely detached from the reality of what happened?

[Sephiroth]

After rereading the post and dva's interaction with you on that, I think I must've misinterpreted it , my apologies. I obviously feel strongly about....things like that , as well as the weird interaction with you thinking FL was holding some personal grudge on you....
Regardless, it's not the reason I am voting you.

Why are you voting me again?

[Sephiroth]

AP

- He has very few scumreads I can find for someone that has written so many posts.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Like, everybody's been blaming me for having a LARGE lynchpool!

Still think you're probably Town cuz Scum would be paying attention to make sure they do have a case on me.

To be fair lynchpool =/= scumreads

[Sephiroth]

Have we wagoned ofhrz yet and can we?

[Sephiroth]

Have we wagoned ofhrz yet and can we?

er
you literally just played with scum me. Explain why you want to wagon me right now.

Do you mean the game that I town read you when you were scum and then only won because of my investigations clearing other people? Is this a serious question?

[Sephiroth]

Still don't understand why we're not wagoning active lurker extraordinaire Ofhrz right now but I'll join the wagon so at least something happens

VOTE: flubbernugget

[Sephiroth]

My body is ready

VOTE: ofhrz

[Sephiroth]

FL is too advanced and too professional to sink to using some ridiculous move like that

who's gonna tell him?

Not it!

[Sephiroth]

Also not for nothin performer, but you haven't really said enough about me. You basically said that I was being scum read for a combination of weak reasons (like basically you need to assume 1 scum in nos vs me for it to even cross from null to sr in my opinion). That sounds like a compromise to me, based on you NOT having a strong read of me. Then you misinterpreted my interaction with Dva, and thought I was being mean (ftr, I would call that passive aggressive ). I guess I'm confused why you think you've said enough to justify me being in your scum pool, especially given when you made that post that you base most of your read on (1051) I had only just got back from V/LA. If something happened between me being V/LA and now that made me worthy of being a top 4 candidate for lynch, I'd love to hear it.

[Sephiroth]

Actually, I'm kind of assuming that was an ordered lynch list, and it seems more likely not to me, so scratch that bit from my previous post.

[Sephiroth]

So, today seems to be between ofrhz & Flubber?

I'll start reading there. Anyone care to tell me anything about it while I'm reading up?

Thanks!

who are you going to vote?

This seems like a silly response to a post saying they're about to start reading.

[Sephiroth]

With Gamma emerald going page-by-page and reading every post, I have a good solid townread on him. Replacing into a game, what I would expect scum to do is to simply play along without analyzing the previous posts.

By the way, @gamma emerald, how long do you think it will be before you catch up completely?

There are a lot of posts in this game, and it is getting more posts every day.

this progression is really weird tonally, and 1232 is pretty surface-level and a bit slimy

I'm with you on this

[Sephiroth]

I'm not interested in entertaining an ofhrz wagon.

Boo you whore.

[Sephiroth]

Yeh pretty much. Best I have so far but I also haven't read much of the thread. I just don't see them engaging with the game in a meaningful way for most of the time. Lots of actual lurking, 2 prod dodges, then a brief flurry of filler-type posts, then back to lurking. Seems like the right person to wagon at this point to me.

[Sephiroth]

Is it possible that his lurkiness is a playstyle issue instead of AI?

DVa seems pretty solid on ofhrz town so I think it's a bit superficial to jump on activity.

I don't know if I feel strongly that he's scum but I think based on my interactions with him last game I would be better able to read if he were more involved. This is the first time there's been a serious ofhrz wagon and I've been waiting for one for some time for exactly this reason.

[Sephiroth]

I like to pressure coasty/lurky slots *shrug*

[Sephiroth]

This garmr-carca thing is weird.

[Sephiroth]

Fuck off how dare you dismiss my case as painting. I put fucking time and effort and beliefs into that. That case is probably one of the best cases in the game and something you can only dream about achieving in your life.

Completely independent of what I think of this snippet...holy shit, is there any mafiascum specific copypasta that gets thrown around here? Because this would be a serious candidate for the first. I halfway expected him to start talking about how many confirmed kills he has lol

[Sephiroth]

Also I think the problem isn't with 521 being an okay post it is with the way you described it as the holy grail of scumhunting.

[Sephiroth]

Besides pissing you off, Garmr, I didn't mean to do that. But it's good to see you passionate about it again.

I'm just going to say this in advance I get really passionate so If I say something hurtful don't it personally because I won't mean it that way.

I'm actively trying to be less of a toxic piece of shit, so I can relate. Not saying you are one of those, but I certainly am

[Sephiroth]

7. It really needs to be an official acronym.

Scum would never say that? It already is an acronym: WIFOM.

[Sephiroth]

Whats the reason to lynch flubb again? That he was wrong about something early game? Not trying to dismiss it just genuinely don't really know why hes the leading lynch candidate.

[Sephiroth]

I would agree that Dva got lynched mostly for leading that wagon. Hard to mislynch the slot that leads a D1 scum lynch.

I should actually reread the context leading up to flubber lynch today so I'll do that later tonight.

[Sephiroth]

Also, I'm pretty sure FL should know I'm town by now. He knows why

[Sephiroth]

Btw can we please give me a chance to speak before any hammers

I uh. Don't think we're anywhere close to any hammers?

[Sephiroth]

Highlighting how his egregious misplay won me a scum game is an interesting way of being buddy-buddy with someone

[Sephiroth]

because with a strongman, no way do I see scum team not killing FL.

You don't think a specific day modifier is likely? We already know from Dvas flip that that modifier is used in the setup.

[Sephiroth]

1437 actually does make me feel kind of weird about profii. That seems like an unreasonable amount of times to use the phrase informed.

[Sephiroth]

@ Performer: Are you an 'alien' jailkeeper? According to the wiki that would make your target completely untargetable which would be different than just preventing NKs and preventing the night actions of FL. Its important to get this piece of info now as opposed to later, I think.

[Sephiroth]

@ Performer: Are you an 'alien' jailkeeper? According to the wiki that would make your target completely untargetable which would be different than just preventing NKs and preventing the night actions of FL. Its important to get this piece of info now as opposed to later, I think.

Alignments other than town, mafia/werewolf are not normal.

alien is not an alignment, its a variation that makes the jailkept slot completely untargetable. It is an allowed variation in Normal.

[Sephiroth]

Check the wiki on jailkeeper for more.

[Sephiroth]

I don't feel good about this development.

[Sephiroth]

Something else:
From what I recall of my exchange with the moderator

From what you recall? This would be in an easily accessible PM so....

[Sephiroth]

prodge until tomorrow.