Neutral still seems objectively worse than genocide.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
In post 92, popsofctown wrote:Oops.
If three townies are spared and the dayvig doesn't hit scum, mafia get beyond-parity for the day four decision. That's uh, probably not good?
Although, they can't do anything that ends the game and they are still accountable for their behavior. HMMMM
If 3 town are spared and the daykill hit town, don't the spared players make the decision anyway? Mafia doesn't have control.
In post 95, Something_Smart wrote:It would be funny to say that scum only get to NK after a spare, but as soon as someone is spared the scum get all the NK's they would have gotten before.
I endorse this as an option. Sort of a "As long as you're killing you have the momentum to be the only people killing" gig.
I could also see "Whenever a player dies, they submit a nightkill before joining the deadthread. If genocide is reached, the living player with the most votes is killed." although tbh I think SS's suggestion is more spicy.
In post 96, popsofctown wrote:So town is always forced to lynch onto a Beloved Princess and lose on a miss, making it equivalent to the "1 shot to guess who the mafia is" from the second run of the setup.
I think you should change this to "A town lynch or No Lynch after New Home is reached is a mafia victory." That gets rid of the ambiguity of the no lynch scenario and cuts out any questions about the uncommon BP role.
Last edited by Jingle on Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
If three town are spared and the daykill hit town, then day 4 (9-3-3-1):(3) so scum control the game thread 3:2, and day 4 is before the spared players get returned to the game. So that's why I put in the Purgatory trick that continues to ensure town controls the decision. (it is possible to let scum control the decision and let the spared players return and vengelynch them for doing that in a scummy way, but that's kind of Wild).
I like the pacifist rewording.
I'm mulling over the idea of a mechanic where the town gets some kind of bonus if the first fight of the game hits scum, no matter which dayphase that occurs. I'm thinking that could be a good way to incentivize neutral.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Why is it bad that scum control the game there? It's kinda interesting
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
That surely makes neutral require even more buffing, but maybe setting it back some gives me room to pop in something dramatic.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 102, popsofctown wrote:If three town are spared and the daykill hit town, then day 4 (9-3-3-1):(3) so scum control the game thread 3:2, and day 4 is before the spared players get returned to the game. So that's why I put in the Purgatory trick that continues to ensure town controls the decision. (it is possible to let scum control the decision and let the spared players return and vengelynch them for doing that in a scummy way, but that's kind of Wild).
This actually seems really interesting. I would love to see scum theater a lynch onto town. Or one onto scum if someone was revealed as scum the prior day.
My one personal gripe is that I feel a lot of players would go for the white flag genocide route which seems relatively boring compared to the SPARE route, but might be more optimal EV-wise for town (question mark).
Maybe after New Home is reached for the genocide route:
If one or two mafia were lynched, the players must play a genocide version of Baton Pass amongst the last 5 players. Aka, 1 person is voted to be handed a rusty knife. That person is dead and flipped, and they pass the knife onto someone else to kill them who then passes the knife to someone else and so on, until everyone has been killed. Mafia wins if one of them is the last person standing with the rusty knife. Otherwise, town wins.
-
If no mafia were lynched, mafia wins OR alternatively: the above scenario is played out with town winning if all town when given the rusty knife pick
town
over mafia when the option is presented. Aka, if a town is voted to be given the rusty knife which is the most likely scenario, they pick the town over the other 3 mafia for the win. If mafia is voted to be given the rusty knife, and they pick town, that town needs to pick the remaining town of the other 3 players to win.
I kinda just like the genocide flavour; I expect to be roasted balance-wise.
Last edited by popsofctown on Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
This is not exactly good but I think maybe it can be cleaned up into something good
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
What happens if the mafia get a majority of the living unspared players?
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
It could happen if mafia is spared in the first 1-4 spares and the town spares a 5th player who is town. The mafia would win, as written (they would spare one of their own). That's potentially a harsh punishment for sparing one Mafiosi and remaining confident you haven't done so.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Like I said, I don't think I am finished with it, but pointing this out is useful feedback, changes that eloquently remove oddities like this as a side effect have good chance to be desirable for other reasons
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I guess town would never choose to spare on the fifth day in that case, since they lose no matter the result. But then the "if there are five spared players when the Stampede happens" clause is irrelevant.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
This is very true, it is superfluous.
I think maybe this setup should give town the win for any 4 spared players, not just a 4 spared players, it is after all a 10:3 without the conftown the 9:2 has. That resolves the issue.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Hectic's rusty knife game sounds fun. It needs an overall setup where it fits well and I'm not sure it matches my more recent revisions as well as some others
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Last edited by popsofctown on Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 8 times in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Hour of need sounds fun. Its quite interesting how dangerous, it is to spare scum. As player, I would personally favor option 1, because of psychological pressure. Option 0 is powerful, because of two TI but players like to use unique mechanics so it won't picked anyway. It should be clarified whenever invented abilities are announced after flip. Option 2 is odd, i am not sure how seizing works. Should players enforce daily vote check to see whenever anyone is seized? Full spare seems to give the best blind winrate for town.
It would be interesting to see this game without players being flipped. There are some event, which depend on dead ppl alignment, so maybe scum could make good plays in such environment.
Janitoring the first flip for "0:" is indeed fascinating, but site populace is strongly enough against flipless games that I'm worried it wouldn't appeal broadly.
The vote seize is only supposed to make LyLo happen one point sooner in 99% of cases. It will be shown in votecounts immediately. The reason I described PMing the moderator instead of posting it in thread is to make it so there's no race-to-the-thread if a voting bloc wants to try to hammer something before the votesteal can happen in the morning. But now I'm realizing the same subsetup is nightless, so there is no morning, oops. Hm.
I rewrote 0 to what I meant, that the second set of roles would be odd since the first one is even. I'm not sure if 0 needs a buff and the normal queue people would maybe be helpful on that. The intention is definitely for the game to feel townsided on a 0: lynch and scumsided on a 0: mislynch
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Last edited by popsofctown on Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Which setup is better?
Which one is more balanced? I feel like they're both scumsided, but Hour of Need is less scumsided?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Are these better than the daylight fork S_S maligned? I think so.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 120, popsofctown wrote:If mafia wasn't spared, the set-aside player joins the scum PT after this kill and bolds a post day 5 in the scum PT to permanently grant any townie bulletproof.
In post 120, popsofctown wrote:If mafia wasn't spared, the set-aside player joins the scum PT after this kill and bolds a post day 5 in the scum PT to permanently grant any townie bulletproof.
why does it work in such strange way?
As I was brainstorming, I was thinking it would happen during N5, and the mafia would say "I nightkill Something_Smart", and the set-aside player would say, "I veto".
I did lots of backspace and type it, backspace and type it, in the current form it's probably better to say it's by PM, since I moved it to the day phase.
Good feedback.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"