In post 41, JacksonVirgo wrote:1)It was a small game that was probably going to be lightweight and fun compared to a few other games where I got a bit aggressive.
2) Quickhammering as scum outs the mafia so not with vengeful townies
3) Probably to create a PoE of three, lynch within that and if it's a vengeful they kill in the other two.
4) As long as it takes, I'm not setting a deadline for before the deadline happens.
So I think this is a townie response because 1) Every response answers the question asked without dodging the question and 2) I think the answer to #3 is a legitimate strategy that could work in our favor. I don't think it's the kind of strategy suggested by scum, especially when it seems most of you have very little experience with the setup. Furthermore, I think scum would be more inclined to answer that question the lazy way by dodging it altogether... because they can probably get away with it.
~Ircher
I've had this sinking feeling that I've been getting jebaited and it's not usually the reaction I get from my gut when I town-read someone unless it's specifically someone that is known to stab me in the ass crack which bugspray isn't. I also feel like the generalised town-read on them from earlier was more scum pushed than anything as when Mark came in they started pushing the exact opposite which actually is the reason that I am acting on that sinking feeling now.
It isn't solid mechanical reasonings but it's enough for me.
I have a solid town-read of Mark. And a PoE of Demon/Infinity/Bugspray which I think is perfectly fine. At the very least we have one scum in there with a >50% chance of hitting them either with a elimination or via a vengekill so I am happy with my odds there. If Mark is pulling a sheet over my eyes we can spot that later down the line after some flips assuming we don't instantly lose by failing the 50% venge assuming we yeet Town.
"Am I a ghost like you, caught between the seams of two intertwining melodies?"
In post 134, Infinity 324 wrote:Hi mark! I like that this thread has become a lot more active. I’ll catch up a little later, but @mark I wanted to know why you thought bugspray’s excessive confidence about your slot being flagbearer is scummy.
I am seeinga Infinity Goon and Bugspray Flagbearer vibe. I checked Demons ISO and they voted bugspray early which could be a distance but unsure.
"Am I a ghost like you, caught between the seams of two intertwining melodies?"
In post 41, JacksonVirgo wrote:1)It was a small game that was probably going to be lightweight and fun compared to a few other games where I got a bit aggressive.
2) Quickhammering as scum outs the mafia so not with vengeful townies
3) Probably to create a PoE of three, lynch within that and if it's a vengeful they kill in the other two.
4) As long as it takes, I'm not setting a deadline for before the deadline happens.
So I think this is a townie response because 1) Every response answers the question asked without dodging the question and 2) I think the answer to #3 is a legitimate strategy that could work in our favor. I don't think it's the kind of strategy suggested by scum, especially when it seems most of you have very little experience with the setup. Furthermore, I think scum would be more inclined to answer that question the lazy way by dodging it altogether... because they can probably get away with it.
~Ircher
This is all valid, although I am now confused why you wanted to keep the information hidden in 96 (so that you could use it in the future) as these are all generic town tells rather than any super-secret tells on JV as a player
In post 120, Marky Mark wrote:So this is the progression from infinity leading towards intent to vote me. I can kinda see the logic here, altho I would be keen to hear them articulate what they mean by demon "not trying to look town".
If anything, posts like 84 from them feels like over-analysis and would fit into the "look at me, I'm trying to solve" category
I see what you're saying, I think it's more about the writing style than anything though.
I think this level of activity doesn't make a ton of sense for a flagbearer (clearly ircher has enough time to post here, so he could be even more active) and his posts aren't overly ambitious (no full readslists, tending to focus on specific posts). Especially since most other people could easily be scum who are trying to look town, I think it makes sense for someone else to be the flagbearer.
I have to ISO people but mark is towning it up so demon/bugspray makes some sense to me.
Their answer to #2 and #3 are okay. Their answer to #4 really pings me though. Like, if you are town, you should have some idea in mind here. The way they answered it is pretty much just sidestepping the question altogther and not really committing a response.
#5 is also an awful response. "I think this question is stupid, so I'll give a noncommitted response."
Like sure, scum may take more time to compose their answers thoughtfully, BUT town should also think through them, wonder why they may have been asked, and provide a response that helps advance the game. bugspray's responses to #4 and #5 aren't useful and don't really help advance the game.
(My underlining above)
So Demon, why do you shade Bugspray for their response to the D1 length question but not JV?
In post 124, Marky Mark wrote:I will give people TRing bugspray a chance to explain why they are
It was mostly that they felt like a townie just trying to say what was on their mind, that and drawing attention to the low activity in 43 that I felt was more likely to come from town. Then again, JV was the one who really got the game moving after that.
In post 152, JacksonVirgo wrote:I also feel like the generalised town-read on them from earlier was more scum pushed than anything as when Mark came in they started pushing the exact opposite which actually is the reason that I am acting on that sinking feeling now.
This is making a lot of sense to me
@Infinity - between Bugspray/Demon do you think one is more likely to be scum than the other?
I was leaning towards bugspray being more likely scum, but I am now keen to hear back from Demon ref why they reacted so differently to JV/bugspray's very similar RQS answers on D1 length because that just doesn't make sense to me
--pedit @Infinity right, that makes sense. Idk how AI drawing attention to low-activity slots is as town has clear motive to do it to get a read on those slots and scum have a clear motive to do it to hunt LHF
Infinity 324 wrote:I guess what I was wondering is how does it benefit scum? Why would scum want to exaggerate their reads? Or do you think they just messed up?
That is a great question - I primarily mentioned it because it just didn't seem consistent with a town mindset. I guess trying to generate greater momentum to miselim my slot would be a reason to exaggerate a read
Hmm, or maybe it's just scum misevaluating how much confidence town would have at that point.
PEdit: it's more that they were trying to get the game moving in general, which is pretty town-motivated. But it's a relatively weak read ig
In post 160, Infinity 324 wrote:Kinda feel like bug/demon is the team no matter what and I just wanna get the flagbearer
I'm not convinced they are both scum. Distancing is a thing, but much of Demon's push on Bugspray has felt like a stretch eg consider the point I make in 156 and I don't get why one would stretch that far just to distance a buddy.
Coming back to my original question, do you lean more towards one or the other or do you see them as being equally scummy?
I've just been looking back over things. There's not much in terms of actual scrutiny/analysis in Bugspray's posts - 59 and 64 are about as close as it gets IMO. I'm trying to weigh this against Demon, who has been more active in scumhunting (++town) but been inconsistent in terms of how he has applied his scumhunting principles across different players (eg the bug/JV disparity highlighted above).
Leaning towards bugspray lim too but keen to hear from Demon in response to my direct question above and also from any general points that bugspray wants to make wrt recent posts.
Infinity favouring bugspray somewhat undermines the infin/bugspray association here as both Demon and bugspray look scummy here so no need to bus partner if they were a team as them wanting to lim Demon would look completely reasonable.
Heading out for a bit, but will be on later this evening and will make a solid vote well ahead of the deadline to avoid any last-minute deadline shennanigans.
In post 161, Marky Mark wrote:I'm not convinced they are both scum. Distancing is a thing, but much of Demon's push on Bugspray has felt like a stretch eg consider the point I make in 156 and I don't get why one would stretch that far just to distance a buddy.
In post 51, JacksonVirgo wrote:I am still slightly paranoid of scum!bugspray however as everyone should be, I am also wary of you possibly pocketing bugspray here as well. This setup should be called paranoia. And no I TR bugspray enough to not yeet them today but I still have a wary eye on them.
Even for JV this is very towny
Did scum just do a weird as hell distance? Doesn't make a ton of sense to me but it would really throw off people's solves ig
I'll need to look at mark's recent scum game but I know he got limmed d1 so he must've really improved to be scum here
