Open Draft Mafia
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Ythan SheWelcome to the HaystackShe
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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New tagline for greatest idea players: If you like picking stuff, what if I told you there was a setup where you get to pick stuff 5 times?-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Greatest Draft Idea Mafia:In post 26, MURDERCAT wrote:New tagline for greatest idea players: If you like picking stuff, what if I told you there was a setup where you get to pick stuff 5 times?
At the beginning of the game you get three draft packs that have attached alignments. You pick one to be your alignment, one to be your draft pack, and one to discard face up. Every draft pack is generated separately so repeats are possible and setups without an appropriate number of scum are rerolled.This is a Parachute.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Also, in terms of balance, I think it's worth pointing out that diffusion of power seems to be scum sided.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Aight, looking at this now:
Watcher is disproportionately powerful for town on late days. Scum virtually has to pick those roles early and town never will, which I think is a flaw. Thus I think N4 and 5 watcher should be nixed.
Neighbor needs to be clarified as to whether it adds you to an established neighborhood and whether all of the neighborhoods are linked. It also needs to be clarified whether the people in said hood are noted at the beginning of the hood or not. Normally I think that's a QOL choice that should be a yes, but specifically for this setup there is a scum utility in secretly being part of the neighbor thread. I don't think 5 Neighbors is a particularly good use of slots either. I think 3 Neighbors who all are added to a Neighborhood that exists from the beginning of the game is fine.
IIRC, the original setup had the nightkill as multitasking by default, is that unchanged?
N3/4/5 Cop is an odd choice thematically, but I assume it's to allow the Godfather time to be chosen. I think I would suggest making the 5 a novice instead (can't be used the night after it's chosen) because a N5 cop is probably going to be pretty easy to play around. Same with the N5 Gsmith, although I don't think I'd double up on what it's turned into. Amnesiac or Delayed seem like decent options.
Doctor probably doesn't need to be gated so harshly, and it should be made explicit whether it turns you into a Gsmith godfather and how long that lasts. Also, if someone drafts vig and doctor and is checked by a Gsmith, does that return a guilty?
MD/FV/Checker/RC/RB all have potential to mix in alternative gates. Odd night FV or Complex Checker or Announcing MD.
Ascetic can probably be buffed to Commuter.
Framer can probably be buffed to affect all investigations. (An investigative targeting your target receives the most damning result: I.E. can kill for gunsmiths or visited scumkill for trackers.)
I would like to see detective and psychiatrist added in some form, possibly as simply as 1 shot versions.
Neighborizer could replace neighbor or vanilla slots as it's a 0 utility role that is net fun for a lot of people and will naturally gravitate to those people who enjoy hoods.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Will look through your other post in a bit but definitely go for it, seems like there is interestIn post 33, Jingle wrote:Do you want suggestions for alternative packs here MC, or are we waiting to see if the vanilla version garners enough interest first?-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Replaced with 1-shot Detective and 1-shot Psychologist for now.In post 32, Jingle wrote: Watcher is disproportionately powerful for town on late days. Scum virtually has to pick those roles early and town never will, which I think is a flaw. Thus I think N4 and 5 watcher should be nixed.
Neighborhood is created on game start and players are added when it is chosen from a pack (that was the idea at least). I think there is no mod announcement when a player is added to the hood, they can post or not if they choose (seems more fun). Happy to drop the number down if there's good replacements, will come back to this.In post 32, Jingle wrote: Neighbor needs to be clarified as to whether it adds you to an established neighborhood and whether all of the neighborhoods are linked. It also needs to be clarified whether the people in said hood are noted at the beginning of the hood or not. Normally I think that's a QOL choice that should be a yes, but specifically for this setup there is a scum utility in secretly being part of the neighbor thread. I don't think 5 Neighbors is a particularly good use of slots either. I think 3 Neighbors who all are added to a Neighborhood that exists from the beginning of the game is fine.
In post 32, Jingle wrote: IIRC, the original setup had the nightkill as multitasking by default, is that unchanged?@Gypyxcan you confirm, after a brief look I couldn't find it. But yes, that is the case here, factional nightkill can be performed alongside pack actions.
Time for scum to play around it, also it forces trade offs in decision making. If there is N1 cop you always take it, but do you take N3 cop on N1? You make sure scum doesn't burn it but you also might die before you use it and maybe that N1 tracker has utility now? Agreed about N5 Cop and gsmith, changed to novice and delayed.In post 32, Jingle wrote: N3/4/5 Cop is an odd choice thematically, but I assume it's to allow the Godfather time to be chosen. I think I would suggest making the 5 a novice instead (can't be used the night after it's chosen) because a N5 cop is probably going to be pretty easy to play around. Same with the N5 Gsmith, although I don't think I'd double up on what it's turned into. Amnesiac or Delayed seem like decent options.
Oh good one. Docs are now even and odd night, plus I added a couple of 2-shot docs to replace 2 of the neighbors. I think doctor makes you a gsmith godfather, unless you are a vig as that seems like the most fun. But if that's awful we could not do that.In post 32, Jingle wrote: Doctor probably doesn't need to be gated so harshly, and it should be made explicit whether it turns you into a Gsmith godfather and how long that lasts. Also, if someone drafts vig and doctor and is checked by a Gsmith, does that return a guilty?
Yeah, I have added in random gates that I think are interesting or funny, including Self Checker, which I think isIn post 32, Jingle wrote: MD/FV/Checker/RC/RB all have potential to mix in alternative gates. Odd night FV or Complex Checker or Announcing MD.reallyfunny.
I put both in /shrugIn post 32, Jingle wrote: Ascetic can probably be buffed to Commuter.
Is there a name for this? Gunna call it universal framer if not.In post 32, Jingle wrote: Framer can probably be buffed to affect all investigations. (An investigative targeting your target receives the most damning result: I.E. can kill for gunsmiths or visited scumkill for trackers.)
Used to replace the watchers.In post 32, Jingle wrote: I would like to see detective and psychiatrist added in some form, possibly as simply as 1 shot versions.
I was thinking that, but wondered if it was better in a booster. But now that 2 of the neighbors have been removed, I will add it in. I'm guessing you are imagining this creating a different hood from the other one?In post 32, Jingle wrote: Neighborizer could replace neighbor or vanilla slots as it's a 0 utility role that is net fun for a lot of people and will naturally gravitate to those people who enjoy hoods.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Isis she/her, not theyBest in Classshe/her, not they
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This setup seems like it could replace normals for me in a way C9++ never could.
Technically it should be in open setup discussion"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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:O
I considered putting it there but grand idea isn't so I put it here too-
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Isis she/her, not theyBest in Classshe/her, not they
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Grand Idea is not an open setup because the randomization isn't perfectly knowable and divorced from mod discretion. Mods use Grand Idea to generate setups in different ways. Micc's Greater Idea generates a few setups and uses mod discretion to pick a good one so it also is not truly an open setup. This setup is truly open, because the moderator follows an exact algorithm in a desultory manner, so every player can reconstruct the probability of each possible outcome without perfect knowledge of the moderator's idiosyncracies."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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Isis she/her, not theyBest in Classshe/her, not they
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Aren't you the one who said in discord that a faction shouldn't lose for making a play that's mechanically correct 98% of the time? oh wait that was infinity.
Anyways. I really don't like 98% sanity cops at all."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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Ythan SheWelcome to the HaystackShe
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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You are welcome to move it if you have the power!
I did say something similar in the cop is a terrible role thread a while back, but here I think the cop shots have enough counterplay to be interesting (personally).-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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correct !In post 36, MURDERCAT wrote:@Gypyx can you confirm, after a brief look I couldn't find it. But yes, that is the case here, factional nightkill can be performed alongside pack actions.White Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (9/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I don't know that this is a setup where someone can definitively say it's balanced. It depends too much on how the packs are randomized.In post 37, MURDERCAT wrote:Also Jingle, is it balanced?
I think as it is your list is within the realm of playable (although if people have suggestions I encourage them to voice them), and I don't see any particular interactions that could break the game on their own, but there are simply too many moving parts and too many scenarios to account for to ever go "Yup, this is a balanced setup." It's kind of like how GIdea games are inherently not guaranteed to be balanced, but are still a ton of fun for people who shouldn't be policy limmed D1.This is a Parachute.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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If you, Isis and Gypyx all think it looks playable, that's good enough for me! Getting started on a wiki page tomorrow! Also I rerolled the example base setup if anyone wants to reexamine for balance.
In the meantime, pack discussion?
Spoiler: Scum Power Booster
Spoiler: Ice Cream Booster
Spoiler: Friendly Neighborhood Booster Pack
Spoiler: Pack Shenanigans BoosterLast edited by MURDERCAT on Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Modifiers could probably be more interesting, but just getting some ideas out there-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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draft roleblocker could be a thing also? like, you prevent someone from getting their role
otherwise those are decent ideas, expect the ice cream pack, seriously, don't, you've seen how it all went the first time lolWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (9/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Draft roleblocker is great, added
Ice Cream Booster is my favorite theme though lol
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