Open 855: Not Mafia's Republic | Game Over

[staypositivefriend]

what's up gamers =)

[staypositivefriend]

honestly if the abomination slot was a wolf i feel like at least one of their posts would have been wolfy so far, lol. i feel like it's more difficult for wolves to project comfort in the early/RVS stages of the game so the fact that so many individual people in their slot have made posts that feel comfortable to me probably raises the equity that their slot is town

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: catboi

cat boi

[staypositivefriend]

whats your read on spf so far

slight scumlean, her read on abomination looked like she might have come up with it to have "content" in her opening, a review of abomination's posts to that point showed they were mostly joking/shitposting, which is fun and good but hardly an alignment tell. do think abomination has had towny posts since then though, and since there are so many scum in this setup, having a handful of townreads means everyone else has greater than a coinflip chance of being scum

it is an alignment tell in the specific context of the abomination slot having 13 players, most of whom are fairly easy to read (ie: ace marvel) and every poster in the beginning of the game coming off like they were authentically having fun and exhibiting comfort in the thread at a stage when wolves tend to feel the most uncomfortable. i think the abomination slot has since towntold for other reasons that are better than my original read but i stand by my original reasoning being valid too

also i think that they might have townslipped a couple of posts ago by suggesting that i tmi'd them as town but that's probably a bad read

[staypositivefriend]

The one post that SPF made in regards to the Abomination hydra is at least a positive look, waiting to see more before making a real read there.

- Brad

i also think that it was towny for brad to specifically bring up that my opening read on abomination was town-indicative for me, because brad is confident about his ability to read me correctly and tends to read me by very specific meta standards that aligned pretty well with how i opened the game

i think his specific meta standards for reading me are standards that i could easily exploit as a wolf to pocket him but i believe that he believed his read on me

[staypositivefriend]

Brad ignoring me feels like frozen Brad

You barely made anything that resembled a read and you accused us of fake posting when we're literally signing who we are.

Actually say something useful maybe I'll respond.

- Brad

also im not trying to word this in a rude way but im pretty sure that brad doesnt have the guts to react to early pressure like this in a world where he's a wolf. in the wolfgame that i just saw from him less than a month ago, he froze under pressure/scrutiny and outed himself almost immediately. his sassiness in this post (along with his general frustration over feeling like he was being personally insulted by pooky) is probably town indicative for him

[staypositivefriend]

pooky is much more naturally inquisitive and invested than the one wolfgame i saw from him about a year(?) ago but idk if that's a good enough reason to townread him on its own

[staypositivefriend]

<3

th

e bea

kies

t bi

tch i

s back

<3

>>

opening thoughts

4maskedwolf:

it is unlikely that the hydra will reduce themselves post-wise, so do you have concrete thoughts on any other slot?

PenguinPower:

similar take to

4mw

but what do you think a wagon will accomplish with a congested slot?

staypositivefriend:

me want something more juicy than

"

abomination's

posts aren't wolfy"

, since majority of their presence has been fluff.

catboi:

the fake read was

SPF's

non-scumread on

abomination

and not the vote on you? also hello again

Abomination:

is there any consensus on any viewpoint within your hydra?

nobody else has given an impression

this is probably the only post that i found openly wolf-indicative while catching up, in the sense that it frames itself as containing "opening thoughts"/impressions but it's comprised entirely of questions that it's difficult for me to believe that taly cares about the answer to. i think the questions are generally fine but they feel like the type of questions that i would ask if i was a wolf trying to do busywork and give off the appearance of solving without actually thinking about the game

[staypositivefriend]

pooky is much more naturally inquisitive and invested than the one wolfgame i saw from him about a year(?) ago but idk if that's a good enough reason to townread him on its own

you're at like 4% of the town level that I saw from you last time we played like 2 years ago.

I'm not sure if it's because

(a) I was scum that time so I knew you were town
(b) you're busy with something else and don't feel like you care that much
(c) you're burned out
(d) koba kept screaming in my ear about how you were the best townie to ever town
(e) you're scum.


If you're mafia I suggest you just admit it and wolf-hunt exclusively and I can stop tunnelling you I have no issue with working with lame groupscum who don't even have a nightkill

i'm actually already obvious town if you know how to read me

if you thought that i was obvious town in that game but not in this game then it's probably because you were a wolf, considering that multiple people in the last game we played together also wolfread me until about ~halfway through the first dayphase. i've been busy IRL over the last 2 days so i haven't been able to post/read much but the recurring trend in every towngame i play is that ppl start off suspicious of me and then i become slowly obvious town to everyone else and it's probably going to happen in this game too

[staypositivefriend]

also yeah i dont feel particularly invested or interested in this game yet compared to our team game where i felt obligated to tryhard for the sake of the other ppl on my team, but im sure ill get more into it as it goes on

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: taly

Edited vote to work with votecounter, original post below: ~Koba

VOTE: taly/vote]

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: taly

[staypositivefriend]

SPF why are you ignoring my read on you [I tried to put an eye emoji here but I got an error so just pretend it's there]

partly because it didnt feel worth responding to and partly because you were correct about me feeling a little uncomfortable when i was entering the thread, you were just incorrect about it being alignment indicative for me lol

[staypositivefriend]

Penguin Power - I'm mostly trying to read people off of tone more than solving but his solving is really thin, like, there are some slots that just openly aren't doing anything, whereas he keeps making posts that are like one sentence long and barely add anything but technically contribute just enough that if you only skim it looks like he's doing something.

also since we're talking i wanted to point out that this is probably the only read in your list of reads that felt "shifty"/a little disingenous in the way that you framed it. based on the way that you describe penguin's posts in this quote, it sounds like he shouldn't be anything below "null", so why is he in your list of scumleans? "it could look like he's being productive if you dont actually read his posts" doesnt actually feel like a legitimate reason to scumread penguin to me

it actually made me wonder if u were a wolf who put penguin's name in ur scumleans to make ur list look more well-rounded when arete!town would be more likely to put him as null. i also dont really feel like it's your typical style to create a readslist (especially a tiered one) this early into the game

[staypositivefriend]

catboi - this slot feels sort of blunt, in a down-to-business sort of way, like they just want to get to work (P#147, P#150, P#205). I don't really know how to explain this but I think the particular flavor of bluntness they have going on is more townie than not -- like, Professor McGonagall vibes [this should not be taken as support of JKR to be clear]

like, does arete!town actually feel that this is sufficient justification to townread catboi in a setup where roughly 50% of the ppl who arent you are mafia?

[staypositivefriend]

hi sabi who do u think the mafia are

[staypositivefriend]

to give some credit to brad he actually does have a good track record at reading me correctly and successfully caught me as mafia almost immediately the last time i wolfed against him

[staypositivefriend]

also im even more sure that brad is town now lol

[staypositivefriend]

wdym by "discord excuse'?

[staypositivefriend]

Penguin Power - I'm mostly trying to read people off of tone more than solving but his solving is really thin, like, there are some slots that just openly aren't doing anything, whereas he keeps making posts that are like one sentence long and barely add anything but technically contribute just enough that if you only skim it looks like he's doing something.

also since we're talking i wanted to point out that this is probably the only read in your list of reads that felt "shifty"/a little disingenous in the way that you framed it. based on the way that you describe penguin's posts in this quote, it sounds like he shouldn't be anything below "null", so why is he in your list of scumleans? "it could look like he's being productive if you dont actually read his posts" doesnt actually feel like a legitimate reason to scumread penguin to me

they /look like they're trying to look like he's Doing Something/ without actually doing something, is the important part, like when you're playing ToL or something and there's one player who just spams randomly tangentially related things like "I wonder if we have a Physician?"

just not doing anything is null but not doing anything while trying to look like you're doing something is scummy

okay, but what posts from penguin qualify as being in the same tier as a player saying something tangentially related like "I wonder if we have a Physician?". the closest example i can find is the post from penguin where he asked pooky why he was voting for me:

Why spf?

but the rest of penguin's posts feel deliberately apathetic/giving off a sense of detachment to me, which is why i don't really understand or agree with the interpretation that it "looks" like he's trying to do something. if he was trying to come off as pro-town then wouldnt his posts be more than a few words each?

fwiw im not trying to convince you not to scumread penguin, i just dont really feel that your conclusions are proportional to ur logic and it makes me feel like u might be a wolf that's rushing the Scumhunting Process so that it looks like ur solving. i know that i tend to feel pressured to get reads more quickly as mafia than town and that also aligns with the fact that you opened this game with a tiered readslist, which is also something ive never seen you do before even in games where ur catching up after an absence

[staypositivefriend]

wdym by "discord excuse'?

Pooty knew too much about Brad and I for someone who isn't in MU and kept saying Gira thoughts about Brad and I and like made an excuse about discord. Scroll earlier

i do not think this is alignment indicative but i do think it's a towny thought for you to have

[staypositivefriend]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Arete Lastname

[staypositivefriend]

im gay

[staypositivefriend]

arete is FROZEN and crying in wolfchat right now

[staypositivefriend]

Spf give us a real read on the Abomination

i actually do feel that i might have cleared them too easily/could be underestimating them, but i lean on them being town because:

-i have a great track record of reading nanook and ace marvel correctly and neither of them have pinged me yet (ace marvel moreso than nook, since nook has basically been a non-factor in the slot so far), slot has projected comfort/relaxation at a time when wolves are usually the most uncomfortable, etc

-i think that fatmo possibly townslipped when he implied that i might have spewed him as town

-this sequence of posts:

actually how do I even know that post came from Brad and not Sabi pretending to be Brad while Brad cries in the woofchat

This is a good post

....


I feel like you taking that shitpost seriously is more likely to come from scum!you because scum tend to think townies are "serious"

bad look

I don't get this.

Though I will say Pooky might be deep wolf/evil so far with I suppose their abrasiveness. I have no idea who they are despite them seemingly pretty familiar with us in the crowd

-90

is probably town indicative for the abomination slot bcuz in a world where they are wolfing i would expect them to likely be operating as a united front and attempting to try to buddy/pocket the same people. abomination making a post complimenting one of pooky's posts and then making a post accusing pooky of being potentially evil/a deepwolf shortly after implies to me that their team actually is trying to solve and that they aren't playing with a specific agenda. i understand that this read is less impactful knowing that both wolf teams would be trying to hunt for the other in this setup, but i still think the lack of consistency in their progressions is an indication that theyre playing from an uninformed perspective

[staypositivefriend]

literally everyone is uninformed of something

that's deep tbh

[staypositivefriend]

also yeah u would be uninformed of some things regardless of what role u get in this setup, but i think mafia/wolves would still scumhunt and approach the game at least slightly differently by the burden of having TMI and by the burden of having a vested interest in being townread by the rest of the game. when i played an almost exact replica of this setup a few years ago i basically made up all of my reads bcuz i found it impossible to scumhunt normally with the TMI that i had, and i feel like the same would apply, at least to a certain extent, to the other wolves/maf in this game

[staypositivefriend]

@arete - i don't understand why you quoted #44, #67, or #115 as examples of penguin "trying to look like he's doing something", when #44 was a non-game related post, #67 was a filler post, and #115 was a meme post. how do any of those posts give off the impression that penguin is trying to "look' towny or look like he's producing content? the only posts i can grant you as being relevant to your point are #31 and #217, but even those don't feel like they come from the perspective of someone who is trying to project townyness, regardless of their alignment

and the only reason im so hung up on this point is because i feel like your reasoning for having penguin in your scumpool is just kind of ....demonstrably incorrect? it's not the read on penguin itself, just the logic, and i feel like it exemplifies a broader issue of your reads in this game feel like they are being formed too quickly and not proportional to your actual reasoning, which is very unlike the town games ive seen from u in the past

i might be conf biasing/tunneling so ill give you some space but yeah i just dont really like your reads list and think it might be scum indicative

[staypositivefriend]

point taken about you opening other games with readslist in different tiers, though i feel like my point still somewhat applies in the sense that more ppl are mafia/wolves in this game than usual so i also tend to expect more natural caution in labeling specific ppl as town for non-descript/vague reasons

[staypositivefriend]

look at me making myself obvious town tbh

[staypositivefriend]

is probably town indicative for the abomination slot bcuz in a world where they are wolfing i would expect them to likely be operating as a united front and attempting to try to buddy/pocket the same people.

it would look susp as fk if 13 people came up with the same reads

divide and conquer makes more sense and it would be relatively easy to fake hydra dissonance with 13 people.

i dont think that they would all have the same reads, per se, but i do think it's likely they would have the same general broad goals (ie: "pocket this specific person", "get this specific person mischopped"), if that makes sense

like for a example, when i wolfed with a large team of people in a MU team game last year, most of us made a point to fake "dissonance" with each other and post a lot of opposing reads so it looked like we were fighting, but we all still did collectively have the same basic goals of who we ultimately wanted to get mischopped and who we needed to pocket to win the game. our posts were still driven by specific agendas even though we made lots of posts where we "disagreed" with each other on certain things too

in this case, i fail to see any overarching narratives in the way abomination has been posting and i feel like theyve made several posts where they contradict the narratives that theyve been building up, which is specifically a mindset that i find town indicative for them

maybe this read only makes sense to me but i think it's valid

[staypositivefriend]

i dont think that they would all have the same reads, per se, but i do think it's likely they would have the same general broad goals (ie: "pocket this specific person", "get this specific person mischopped"), if that makes sense

like for a example, when i wolfed with a large team of people in a MU team game last year, most of us made a point to fake "dissonance" with each other and post a lot of opposing reads so it looked like we were fighting, but we all still did collectively have the same basic goals of who we ultimately wanted to get mischopped and who we needed to pocket to win the game. our posts were still driven by specific agendas even though we made lots of posts where we "disagreed" with each other on certain things too

in this case, i fail to see any overarching narratives in the way abomination has been posting and i feel like theyve made several posts where they contradict the narratives that theyve been building up, which is specifically a mindset that i find town indicative for them

maybe this read only makes sense to me but i think it's valid

I think the basic assumption you're making here is that they're taking this game seriously and not here to meme/troll the shit out of Koba

they would Never

[staypositivefriend]

my personal canon is that all of the abomination's posts so far were made by one person pretending to be 13 different people

[staypositivefriend]

@arete - i don't understand why you quoted #44, #67, or #115 as examples of penguin "trying to look like he's doing something", when #44 was a non-game related post, #67 was a filler post, and #115 was a meme post. how do any of those posts give off the impression that penguin is trying to "look' towny or look like he's producing content? the only posts i can grant you as being relevant to your point are #31 and #217, but even those don't feel like they come from the perspective of someone who is trying to project townyness, regardless of their alignment

and the only reason im so hung up on this point is because i feel like your reasoning for having penguin in your scumpool is just kind of ....demonstrably incorrect? it's not the read on penguin itself, just the logic, and i feel like it exemplifies a broader issue of your reads in this game feel like they are being formed too quickly and not proportional to your actual reasoning, which is very unlike the town games ive seen from u in the past

i might be conf biasing/tunneling so ill give you some space but yeah i just dont really like your reads list and think it might be scum indicative

44 I'm pretty sure is referencing Vroendal since I'm not sure why else they would randomly bring up someone who isn't even in the game

67 ...... is, as you say, a filler post. Yes. That is kind of the entire problem here, that they're writing a lot of tangentially game-related filler posts that are just related enough to look like they're doing something, without actually doing anything.

115 would be fine on its own, lots of people meme a bit just as their personality, but in the context of the reset of their posting it feels like a continuation of the same trend, of posts that kind of vaguely surface-level relate to the game (Abomination's PFP in the wagon) but don't actually do anything.

also to be clear it's less about projecting 'towniness' per se and more about projecting 'do-something-ness'

re: the logic, I mean, if you look at the logic I use in normal games and the logic I'm using here, there are going to be some differences, because

normally I look for people who are genuinely solving without TMI

and that's mostly not going to help here -- although even then, my Penguin read

is

based on similar principles to 'normal game logic in not-multiball games' and you're being weirdly defensive of him for no clear reason (you can say you're not trying to but that is in fact the actual effect of what you are doing, so)

What even is your actual read on Penguin, I was sort of hoping I would get it after I pointed out you were being partnery but I guess I didn't explicitly ask for it.

okay. i have more stuff that i would like to say but i feel like i'm at a point where i'm splitting hairs to an extent that probably isn't productive regardless of your alignment. to be clear, the part of your read on penguin that feels "made up" to me is the idea that penguin's posts project any level of "do-something-ness", when (as i said before) their style of posting feels deliberately apathetic and detached to me. the dissonance in the way that you were perceiving penguin's posts vs how i am perceiving penguin's posts is why i pressured you so hard on this specific point in the first place

also this answer will probably be disappointing after our conversation but i honestly don't really have a read on penguin, and that it would be a stretch for me to say that anything he's posted is alignment indicative in either direction. i remember finding his immediate frustration/regret over joining the game in reaction to the abomination slot kind of towny but that's not something im willing to base a read on

[staypositivefriend]

i find it extremely difficult to believe that you believe that me/penguin are partnered because i called out a logical flaw with your read on penguin and it's making me scumread you even more lol

[staypositivefriend]

fwiw im not trying to convince you not to scumread penguin

nitpicky point but was there a reason you said this

I was kind of tinfoiling this was TMI on Penguin!scum/not wanting to look like you were defending him

yes because your actual stance on penguin was always secondary to the reasoning behind your read on penguin. we would be having the same conversation about any player in this game that wasnt penguin if you had used the same logic to justify your read on them

[staypositivefriend]

i find it extremely difficult to believe that you believe that me/penguin are partnered because i called out a logical flaw with your read on penguin and it's making me scumread you even more lol

my read isn't logically flawed?? you were like 'Penguin hasn't been doing that, name examples' and I provided like five examples of him doing that and you were like '3 of those examples don't count for these reasons' and I showed why in at least 2/3 cases they actually were examples of the thing I was saying and then you were like 'okay maybe those are all examples of tangentially-related filler that looks vaguely game related but isn't actually productive but I disagree about whether they're trying to look like they're saying anything game-related' but obviously it's trying to look game-related, they are literally posts about the game, they're just useless

no, that's not what happened. you put penguin in your scum list because you said that you felt like penguin was trying to project that they were "doing towny things". i disagreed with this because almost all of penguin's posts came off as deliberately apathetic and outright unrelated to the content of the actual game. when i asked you to provide examples to back up your point, you provided me with several meme posts and two other non-descript posts that did not "give off" the impression that penguin was trying to be towny in any way, shape, or form. i disagreed fundamentally with the logic behind your read and felt that your conclusion on penguin was not proportional to your reasoning

it's the most level 0 assumption possible to believe that me/penguin are W/W and im going out of my way to discredit your wolfread on my scumbuddy who you had a weak scumlean on at best and who wasnt even the primary person that you were targeting or pushing on, and it's a conclusion that i find it difficult to believe town!arete would reach

the funny thing is that i keep trying to drop this penguin thing to try to give you space but it keeps coming back up lol

[staypositivefriend]

ive said the word "penguin" way more times than i could have predicted coming into this game

[staypositivefriend]

no, that's not what happened. you put penguin in your scum list because you said that you felt like penguin was trying to project that they were "doing towny things".

this is a misrepresentation of my actual point

it's the most level 0 assumption possible to believe that me/penguin are W/W and im going out of my way to discredit your wolfread on my scumbuddy who you had a weak scumlean on at best and who wasnt even the primary person that you were targeting or pushing on, and it's a conclusion that i find it difficult to believe town!arete would reach

phrasing this in the maximally charitable way I can, you jumped on the Penguin point to chainsaw defend him, misrepresented my argument, and then repeatedly tried to discredit the evidence I brought up to support my point

and the best argument against you being partnered is "SPF likes to bus" but I don't think that would apply in this setup, Mafia wouldn't want to bus because they'd be more likely to get nightkilled and Werewolves wouldn't want to go down to 1 member with a Seer in the game

the

most charitable interpretation

I can come up with here is that you misinterpreted it because you genuinely misread, and when I attempted to clarify you were still semi-stuck on your initial misinterpretation and so read it through that lens and were like 'well Arete's evidence doesn't support (my mistaken interpretation of) what their point is so clearly they're making things up'

1. i just went and double checked, and i'm not misrepresenting your read on penguin. this is the specific reasoning that you used against penguin when explaining your read on him:

whereas he keeps making posts that are like one sentence long and barely add anything but technically contribute just enough that if you only skim it looks like he's doing something.

they /look like they're trying to look like he's Doing Something/ without actually doing something, is the important part

as such, how is "penguin is trying to project that they are Doing Towny Things" a meaningfully different way to phrase your read than "they look like they're trying to look like he's doing something"?

if i want to steelman your perspective, then i can see how "penguin is looking like he's trying to do something without actually doing something" is a bit different from "penguin is trying to project that he's doing towny things", but the primary point of your read on penguin (ie: "penguin is trying to look towny without actually being towny") has been correctly interpreted by me throughout this entire conversation

2. why do you include the best argument against me/penguin being partnered and not the best argument for why me and penguin are partnered? the framing of this post treats me/penguin being partnered as the logical/default perspective, but that doesn't make any sense. why does me grilling you on the nuances of your read on a specific player mean that i am therefore likely to be partnered with that player? in fact, isn't it possible for me to be a mafia/wolf who is unaligned with penguin, and is jumping on your reasoning on him to make you look bad, regardless of penguin's alignment? what do i gain by hard defending my partner when you were not hardpushing on him or trying to get him killed?

it is logically fallacious for town!arete to approach the exchange we just had with: "well, i guess SPF/penguin must be partnered", and this is yet another example of you reaching conclusions that do not feel fully logical or carefully thought through, and i really really think that the dishonesty in your posting might just be because youre mafia but im trying not to confirmation bias myself

[staypositivefriend]

the way that youve approached this entire exchange feels exactly like how i engage with people as mafia, which is essentially attempting to downplay and invalidate their perspective as much as possible and refuse to give them any common ground out of fear of making myself look bad. this aligns with your unwillingness to acknowledge that my concerns about your specific logic on penguin could be coming from a place of genuine concern/curiosity, and it also aligns with you immediately jumping to OMGUSing and trying to discredit my criticism of your read by suggesting that i must be partnered with penguin

[staypositivefriend]

the way that youve approached this entire exchange feels exactly like how i engage with people as mafia, which is essentially attempting to downplay and invalidate their perspective as much as possible and refuse to give them any common ground out of fear of making myself look bad. this aligns with your unwillingness to acknowledge that my concerns about your specific logic on penguin could be coming from a place of genuine concern/curiosity, and it also aligns with you immediately jumping to OMGUSing and trying to discredit my criticism of your read by suggesting that i must be partnered with penguin

[staypositivefriend]

ive gotta be honest with everyone, im mafia

[staypositivefriend]

ive gotta be honest with everyone, im mafia

on opposite day!

[staypositivefriend]

it's not about trying to project towniness-in-particular, it's about trying to project a general aura of contributingness-and-productivity, an aura of Doing Something, enough to get people to leave you alone for a while, not trying to get everyone to be like 'wow you're so townie'

which I specifically said, hence thinking that you were misrepping me ~knowingly. I guess if you just skipped over this part of the post maybe it genuinely could have been an accident?

i do feel that there are only a few degrees of separation from: "x is trying to look towny" and "x is trying to project a general aura of contributingness-and-productivity, an aura of Doing Something, enough to get people to leave them alone for a while", but i can understand the differences between the two if i squint

in that case, i also do disagree that the specific posts that you quoted from penguin project an aura of "do-something-ness" but i feel like ive already explained why very clearly and that we would just be going in circles if i laid out my thoughts again. i will grant that it's possible for you to make the specific read that you made on penguin from a town!arete perspective if you will also grant why i've found your specific read on penguin potentially scum-indicative for you. in the same way that youre accusing me of trying to make your read on me look ridiculous, i feel like youve been trying to make my read on you look ridiculous and going out of your way to avoid conceding any ground

when I said "phrasing this in the maximally charitable way I can, you jumped on the Penguin point to chainsaw defend him, misrepresented my argument, and then repeatedly tried to discredit the evidence I brought up to support my point" that was the argument for you being partnered. Describing what you are doing as 'grilling [me] on the nuances of [my] read' is a really generous way to talk about your actual actions here, like if I'd been like "Penguin is a scumlean, here's why" and you'd been like "are you sure about that, I think he's just openly being useless rather than trying to be at all subtle about it, and I think open uselessness is NAI" then yeah that's just grilling me on the nuances but you lept to try and discredit me and my read -- and even when I've pointed out issues with your argument you've been really slow to acknowledge that there are issues with it, like you're trying to avoid conceding I have a point

I feel like the 'why' here is obvious, like, if you are scum you presumably would rather not have your teammates dead, and it would be advantageous to you to get the people pushing them voted out, even if they aren't pushing them very hard. You're acting like it's totally ridiculous for you to try to defend a teammate and I feel like the reasons why you might do that are pretty obvious.

and ... I don't know how to express this in a way that makes sense, but I feel like town!SPF would be capable of seeing why you look partnery with him? I feel like you're trying to make me think it's ridiculous that you're partnered with him, and I think as town you would be able to recognize that (even if it's not a correct read in that world) your behavior is stereotypically partnery

(and yeah obviously 'SPF scum Penguin town' is a theoretically-possible world as well, although I feel like in that case you would be less reluctant to acknowledge that I have a point/more inclined to try to look reasonable about me refuting all your arguments?)

to me, the "why" doesnt feel obvious or intuitive at all, and i promise that i'm not saying that just because you're talking about me. in my experience, when one player goes out of their way to "defend" or nitpick the reasoning behind someone elses read, the person that they are "defending" is unaligned with them more often than not. like, if i was evaluating the exchange that we just had from a town!arete POV, there would be a few obvious possibilities that i would need to discount before i could get to a world of: "SPF/penguin must be teamed", for example:

1.SPF is town, and she genuinely feels that arete's read on penguin is wolf-indicative for arete

2. SPF is mafia, unaligned with penguin, and genuinely feels that arete's read on penguin is wolf-indicative for arete

3. SPF is mafia, unaligned with penguin, and is pretending to scumread arete so that she has an excuse to push on them

of course, a world where SPF is mafia, aligned with penguin, and is trying to push on arete since arete scumreads her partner, is also a plausible world as well, but it is not a world that intuitively makes sense to have as a

default

assumption

i can see town!arete believing that me/penguin are partnered, but i felt that you immediately jumped to the assumption of: "SPF/penguin are partnered" during our exchange in a reactive and defensive way, in part to discredit the concerns that i was bringing up about you. this is why i've been implying that your read is logically fallacious and potentially wolf-indicative for you - not because of the read itself, but because of the way that you formed the read in a way that felt rushed and not something that you carefully thought through

[staypositivefriend]

i should have been asleep like 2 hours ago so that might be my last post for the night. if arete still has the energy to respond to me after that then they win tbh

[staypositivefriend]

nocturnal animals, tbh, was not a very good movie!

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: taly

gn

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: arete

what made u decide to vote for them?

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: meditation

okay that's a scumclaim can we do this first plz~

why tho

[staypositivefriend]

if brad actually cared about solving this game he would quit his job and come play

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: meditation

okay that's a scumclaim can we do this first plz~

why tho

it was a bad post

i kind of agree but i want to hear why you think so

[staypositivefriend]

im in a game w/kuti and bluekang that just ended, and i was able to identify that kuti was mafia fairly quickly and i also successfully townread bluekang fairly quickly. the fact that kuti is significantly more towny and natural in this game and the fact that bluekang is scumhunting in a pretty similar way makes me feel even more confident that their slot is town, but i didnt wanna bring up the game until it ended lol

it's here for reference: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -itas-15er

[staypositivefriend]

i will engage more with this game tomorrow but my latest update is that i kinda think pooky is town and that i would probably replace him with abomination in my current list of townreads

[staypositivefriend]

i will engage more with this game tomorrow but my latest update is that i kinda think pooky is town and that i would probably replace him with abomination in my current list of townreads

this is because abomination's posts got significantly worse and i am paranoid about having cleared them too easily but they could still be town too ig

[staypositivefriend]

Them trying to tie me to arete with their little question about my read on them was also bad and scummy because it felt more like an attempt to discredit me than any actual scumhunting

You pretty much are focused on defending Arete and FoSing low post slots.

So some rope to tie you would be nice.

VOTE: meditation

[staypositivefriend]

Normally, I like to find town but I am struggling to. I'd get more townreads if I felt people were on the same wavelength as me. I think this is a no bus style game where people are promoting their partners as town.

I mostly like staypositive's approach to swapping TRs.

I have never seen a 10 headed hydra.
Not Mafia actually putting in effort feels good.
Pooky feels non srs enough not to be aligned.
I should have an Abby read because they have enough posts but I am not feeling a conclusion.

catboi is scared of cute koalas and fierce dragons. Frozen on just FoSing low posters exclusively.

the bolded is basically gibberish since i dont have an "approach" to swapping TRs - i just said that i thought pooky was town and that i was less sure that abomination was town than i previously was. the read on not mafia putting in effort when not mafia hasnt put in even the mildest amount of effort sounds like someone making up reads too

[staypositivefriend]

Them trying to tie me to arete with their little question about my read on them was also bad and scummy because it felt more like an attempt to discredit me than any actual scumhunting

You pretty much are focused on defending Arete and FoSing low post slots.

So some rope to tie you would be nice.

VOTE: meditation

i also dont really like that meditation is piggybacking off of my read on arete without presenting any thoughts about arete on his own and then accusing someone else of being "focused on defending arete" for calling out his read for being lazy - it feels disingenuous in a low-effort scum kind of way

[staypositivefriend]

Normally, I like to find town but I am struggling to. I'd get more townreads if I felt people were on the same wavelength as me. I think this is a no bus style game where people are promoting their partners as town.

I mostly like staypositive's approach to swapping TRs.
I have never seen a 10 headed hydra.
Not Mafia actually putting in effort feels good.
Pooky feels non srs enough not to be aligned.
I should have an Abby read because they have enough posts but I am not feeling a conclusion.

catboi is scared of cute koalas and fierce dragons. Frozen on just FoSing low posters exclusively.

these reads are all, like, really blatantly fake

spf changing her townreads doesn't mean anything

the comment on the hydra literally doesn't say anything

not mafia isn't really putting in a significant amount of effort, he's made like 2 token posts to appea like he's doing so, this doesn't come from someone reading the game critically

"non srs enough not to be aligned" is a literally meaningless sentence

the a&r read is literally nothing

the only firm read is just OMGUSing me

yeah

[staypositivefriend]

i will engage more with this game tomorrow but my latest update is that i kinda think pooky is town and that i would probably replace him with abomination in my current list of townreads

this is because abomination's posts got significantly worse and i am paranoid about having cleared them too easily but they could still be town too ig

something something, how dare you.

We are obvi town and if you can see it, I'm sorry but you need to step up your game.

honestly maybe im putting too high of expectations on a slot called The Abomination but i just think that your reads feel lazy and phoned in and i expect at least slightly better scumuunting from a slot with 10+ people. surely at least one of the 10+ people in your slot actually cares about solving the game? honestly though, not scumhunting in this setup is probably more laziness indicative than alignment indicative (since wolves/maf could easily scumhunt for each other and wouldnt need to fake it) so ur probably still town, i was just expecting more

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: catboi

History says this is probably a wolfy wolf.

this slot can probably die too honestly

[staypositivefriend]

catching up was kind of boring ngl

[staypositivefriend]

my reads are largely unchanged but i am currently taking questions if anyone wants to chat

[staypositivefriend]

the claim is probably fake but it's suboptimal to kill them today and im probably just going to let the nightkills resolve it

UNVOTE:

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: catboi

History says this is probably a wolfy wolf.

this slot can probably die too honestly

Shrug, I feel like maskwolf is polarized

-90

what has maskwolf done in this game that is unique to their town meta? i dont have much experience with them but just feels like theyre phoning it in tbh

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: 4maskwolf

just looked at his ISO and i kinda think he's outed

[staypositivefriend]

havent read the last couple of pages and proly wont until tomorrow though

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: save the dragons

will post some thoughts later. a little bit demoralized by the flips tbh

[staypositivefriend]

Town:

SPF
Catboi

Townlean:

Pooky
Abomination
Arete
Ydrasse

That's really it.

- Brad

there's almost no way that all of these names are town in a setup where roughly 50% of the people who arent you are mafia but i think the fact that ur not worried about boxing urself in is towny and the people who are trying to get u killed are probably wolves

[staypositivefriend]

if I'm right on my villagereads then me A&R Abomination SPF Catbae is five towns and everyone else is not town but this is obviously a big 'if,' some of those players have fooled me before.

I am not remotely convinced spf is town, for the record, but would not be voting her today. Dunno, that's a concern for late game if we get there.

talk to me about SPF?

think ultimately her scumread on 4mask was lazy and there's nothing particularly strongly towny that she's done, is all

i don't deny that my read on him was lazy - i skimmed his ISO and thought he looked stilted and awkward in a way that is characteristic of his wolf game and i decided to call him outed to see how he would react to it. there's a chance that i would have switched off of him if y'all didnt decide to end d1 multiple real life days earlier than it should have, so i only take 50% of the responsibility for incorrectly pushing on him tbh

[staypositivefriend]

I want to kill catboi, I liked the koala, we are already voting catboi, so yay! HK rules. upupupupupupu

i would find it easier to feel confident that ur slot is town if it didnt feel like u were wolfsiding with literally every post that u make. does ur slot even have a reason to find catboi scummy or are u just blindly choosing a target to tunnel on bcuzs this game is dead and u know u can get away with it?

[staypositivefriend]

case in point lol

[staypositivefriend]

hk ur slot is either mafia or playing specifically in the mafias favor by exclusively pushing on the people who are the most likely to be town, which is genuinely impressive for you to do in a setup where like 50% of the living players are mafia. if ur actually town with me then u should try scumhunting instead of whatever the fuck this is

[staypositivefriend]

i maintain meditation was scummy as hell


I still thik the hydras are town, everyone else is kind of a crapshoot now

I want to vote not_mafia today

VOTE: ydrasse

VOTE: save the dragons

?

there are 50% scum in the game right now

I think basically any of the names I have named/voted are probable scum

I am also town-leaning arete although not confidently

i am kind of leaning town on arete too and my only reservation with that read is that i feel like theyre townreading me way too easily and confidently relative to what ive actually done in this game, but at any rate there's no world in which im voting for them today or even anytime in the near future

[staypositivefriend]

mb we just yeet SPF

isn't she supposed to have like good reads

yes and my reads have proly been >rand accurate so far. i think that catboi and the brad/sabi slot and arete contains one mafia maximum, but it might be an entirely pure list. beyond that i think most people are openwolfing so i dont really care

[staypositivefriend]

if catboi, abbyandrani, and arete are all town, it means that there are 5 mafia and 1 town in save the dragons/pooky/abomination/ydrasse/not_mafia/penguin power, which means that i can actually just blindly tunnel in my POE and have about a 90% chance of pushing on mafia

within those names i think one of abomination/pooky is the most likely to be the town and theyre going to have to duke it out battle royale style for me to decide which one of them should survive

[staypositivefriend]

i mean if ur reads r accurate and good and there's only like 5 townies left it shouldnt exactly be hard to catch baddies atp

or do u just not care cuz this game is multiball

yes and my vote is on one of the baddies right now. this post:

i think that abby and rani ignored other people who did the same thing i did to specifically target me for some reason and i think that's scummy

i think that abby and rani have done some ATE that have tugged on catboi's heartstrings but isn't affecting me

they've pinged me as scummy just from a vibes perspective i know that's not really answerable but i can't ignore my gut

i think abby and rani and catboi may have some partner equity but that's not really a great point

4mask hasn't really done anything of note. could be scum hiding/not wanting to post frequently. probably closer to a null read than a scum read but just the vibe i get is scummy

is probably borderline outing for save the dragons and so has the way that he's done nothing today beyond lazily push on my townreads

im willing to hard tunnel basically anyone that isnt in my towncore but i will admit to not feeling particularly motivated or really caring about this game all that much when most of the ppl im going to interact with are mafia lol

[staypositivefriend]

he's one of the only people in this game who has made a consistent and concentrated effort to solve at a point when most people have thrown in the towel and more or less given up on playing the game and he's also the only other player in this game who i seem to be on the same wavelength with so that's good enough for me for now

[staypositivefriend]

do u think he's mafia?

[staypositivefriend]

he's one of the only people in this game who has made a consistent and concentrated effort to solve at a point when most people have thrown in the towel and more or less given up on playing the game and he's also the only other player in this game who i seem to be on the same wavelength with so that's good enough for me for now

Disagree

why do u think he's mafia?

[staypositivefriend]

ok why wouldn't he effort if he's a wolf again?

because there is no one else in this game putting in even a mild amount of effort, which means it would be extremely easy (and likely optimal) for him as mafia to lurk & blend in with the rest of the thread, like literally every other player is doing. he is putting effort into solving the game at a point where it would be very easy for him to get away with not doing so as mafia, which indicates to me that his solving is coming from an authentic place and that he is playing from an uninformed perspective

it's always possible that he's a mafia/wolf trying to hunt for the other team but in that world i think his solving would look less "pure" and a bit more informed than it currently does. im not like, superbly confident about him being town, but i think he's demonstrably one of the towniest people in the thread right now

[staypositivefriend]

well both of the dead townies said catboi is scum

and you were wrong on both of the dead townies being baddies

so i dont have a lot of faith atp in your reads

dont really care if u dont have faith in my reads, im probably right regardless

[staypositivefriend]

he was literally on 40 hours of inactivity until he got mentioned and then immediately beetlejuiced into the thread which indicates active lurking and keeping track of thread.

the idea that he's not lurking is a wild take

he is definitely not lurking relative to the way the rest of the game has been lurking. there is a stark difference in his level of overall content compared to p much anyone else here

[staypositivefriend]

pooky who do u wanna kill today

[staypositivefriend]

Catboi is mafia not wolf

if anything i think that it would be the opposite, right? he would have an incentive to try to tryhard and look towny as a wolf but not as mafia, bcuz if he tryharded as mafia it would increase the odds that he gets nightkilled

[staypositivefriend]

pooky who do u wanna kill today

catboi duh

why is he mafia

what am i not seeing

[staypositivefriend]

lurking is not a relative thing

counterpoint: yes it is

[staypositivefriend]

i have been lurking for the majority of the dayphase but i have also posted more content in the last hour by the sheer virtue of the fact that i am actually posting thoughts

[staypositivefriend]

i have been lurking for the majority of the dayphase but i have also posted more content in the last hour by the sheer virtue of the fact that i am actually posting thoughts

baddies can post thoughts too

lurking isn't about posting thoughts

its about thread presence

for sure, yes, but i would argue that catboi has established a stronger thread presence than the majority of people here through the way that he has posted content. i am skeptical that he would attempt to establish the thread presence that he has if he was mafia. that said this feels like a semantic argument and is probably pointless

[staypositivefriend]

i have been lurking for the majority of the dayphase but i have also posted more content in the last hour by the sheer virtue of the fact that i am actually posting thoughts

baddies can post thoughts too

lurking isn't about posting thoughts

its about thread presence

for sure, yes, but i would argue that catboi has established a stronger thread presence than the majority of people here through the way that he has posted content. i am skeptical that he would attempt to establish the thread presence that he has if he was mafia. that said this feels like a semantic argument and is probably pointless

ok explain why he wouldn't establish thread presence if he's a baddie again?

because the thread state incentivizes lurking and blending in as much as possible, as evidenced by the fact that this is what the majority of the playerlist has been doing

i dont think that he would try to establish a strong thread presence if he was specifically mafia because it would raise the chances of him being nightkilled, which means a world where he's Not Town is probably exactly a world where he's a wolf. this decreases the odds that he's Not Town by default and his solving doesnt feel informed to me and he is reaching the correct conclusions for the correct reasons so i think he's >rand likely to be town

[staypositivefriend]

he could be but i dont think that he's wolfy so he proly isnt

[staypositivefriend]

spf how many games have you actually played with catboi wolf/town and what's your readrate on him?

i've played a solid amount of games with him but my readrate on him is about >rand. my read on him isnt based on meta at all so my personal experience with him isnt really relevant to determining if my read on him is correct

and my read on him is also pretty easy to understand. i dont think that he's a mafia goon, which significantly decreases the odds that he is Not Town by default. he could be a wolf, but if he was a wolf trying to hunt specifically for the mafia team, i feel that his solving would come off as a bit more informed and a bit wolfier than it has been

i can concede that there's a: "if he is actually a wolf then i wont even feel bad for misreading him when he's one of the only people in this game giving readable content" element of my read but my read is also extremely easy to understand and there's only so many ways that i can re-state it before i start to think that youre intentionally refusing to understand it

[staypositivefriend]

there's almost no way that all of these names are town in a setup where roughly 50% of the people who arent you are mafia but i think the fact that ur not worried about boxing urself in is towny and the people who are trying to get u killed are probably wolves

SPF you are aware there are only 5 town alive so it

is

literally impossible right?

-90

if anything i think that makes the post even townier lol

[staypositivefriend]

the abomination slot townreading the save the dragon slot when they have been howling for well over a dayphase now is proof to me that the abomination slot is not actually trying to solve regardless of their alignment

[staypositivefriend]

there's almost no way that all of these names are town in a setup where roughly 50% of the people who arent you are mafia but i think the fact that ur not worried about boxing urself in is towny and the people who are trying to get u killed are probably wolves

SPF you are aware there are only 5 town alive so it

is

literally impossible right?

-90

if anything i think that makes the post even townier lol

It was your use of the word

almost

since it's objectively wrong

i mean sure, i did not do my math in my head when i saw that he made a post with a whole bunch of townreads

[staypositivefriend]

SPF is making the most shallowest argument to get by, and borderline copying catboi. noted.

which argument are u even talking about lol

[staypositivefriend]

SPF is making the most shallowest argument to get by, and borderline copying catboi. noted.

which argument are u even talking about lol

like literally everything.

You are not solving, you are just pushing the narrative that no one is solving and that screams hidden agenda to keep Catboi alive.

i mean it's just self-evidently true that most of the people in this game have not been solving very much, am i wrong? i don't need to push a narrative when what im saying is clearly true regardless of my alignment

[staypositivefriend]

Catboi is mafia not wolf

if anything i think that it would be the opposite, right? he would have an incentive to try to tryhard and look towny as a wolf but not as mafia, bcuz if he tryharded as mafia it would increase the odds that he gets nightkilled

what in tf are you talking about? It's still multiball

-90

so...? the fact that it is multi-ball does not contradict anything that i said in that post. i think u need to read it again

[staypositivefriend]

its weird to me that you think these two things are true:

(a) Most people are not solving very much

(b) you have a the 5 scum in a POE of 6.

how is it weird to believe that those things are true? i have all 5 wolves narrowed down to a pool of 6 and now i'm just trying to figure out which remaining of those 6 names is town with me as well. it is literally impossible to solve more optimally than that lol

[staypositivefriend]

aftersun is a pretty sick name for me i wont lie

[staypositivefriend]

its weird to me that you think these two things are true:

(a) Most people are not solving very much

(b) you have a the 5 scum in a POE of 6.

how is it weird to believe that those things are true? i have all 5 wolves narrowed down to a pool of 6 and now i'm just trying to figure out which remaining of those 6 names is town with me as well. it is literally impossible to solve more optimally than that lol

Who do you think is aligned with eachother?

i dunno, i usually don't make pre-flip associations until i have at least one concrete scum flip to work with. my brain doesnt really work that way

[staypositivefriend]

its weird to me that you think these two things are true:

(a) Most people are not solving very much

(b) you have a the 5 scum in a POE of 6.

how is it weird to believe that those things are true? i have all 5 wolves narrowed down to a pool of 6 and now i'm just trying to figure out which remaining of those 6 names is town with me as well. it is literally impossible to solve more optimally than that lol

so you're saying those 6 people are not solving and the 4 people who are solving are all town?

not really? my POE isn't directly correlated with who i think is solving the game the most. i would argue that abomination has done more "solving" than most people here but i still have them in my POE because theyve been wolf-siding to an extent that i cant comfortably townread them (although fwiw i think their posts on the last page or two are kind of towny)

[staypositivefriend]

You are absolutely right MY INTELLECT IS UNPARALLELED

I mean I hate to say it but I'm probably the best player to have ever existed, like legit, no one plays like Ace, I've been perfecting my play since even before I played mafia, so I thank you for seeing the obvious. I will be humble and say that there are other players here that could be considered good, but no one is on my level, in fact, I'm on the next level, I open the door over there and I'll destroy you in the end until I reach the next level KOSMO. I am a force to be reckon with, never forget that, because I alone am the endgame. I'm the final girl of this horror movie we call a game, so get ready, because I'm going all in and nothing can't stop me, I can't even stop me, I'm that powerful. Innochild for life and you can't probe me wrong, because I invented it. I am a creator and also a destroyer, you cross me path and you won't live to tell the tale. IQ over 9000 and charm is beyond your reason. I don't win I double even triple win, never forget that. Now if you want to be a follower of the best player you are welcome to do it, just don't was my time. I'm the master and everyone else is just here to watch me.

When I look in the mirror, I'll melt your heart into two, I got that superstar glow, so my play is smooth like butter and I don't need no usher. I play with my heart on my cheek, but never on my sleeve, so you know what you are getting into, you have been warn.

Say My Name
Say My Name
Say My Name
Say My Name
Say My Name
Say My Name

Call upon my name
Call upon my name

My name is everything!

I refuse to be compared, I'm telling you the truth, if we're talking about my value, I'm a billion dollar baby
people who know a thing or two they all know it so ask them, grab anyone and ask them who is the best

Moving too fast, life is moving in slow-mo I'm a God, better ask if you don't know homie, better put your pride aside I'm a Benz and you're more like a Volvo, Your best stuff looks like my worst synapses fire and burst got the whole crew with me 'bout to deal damage, you know we ain't average I ain't gonna say this again but this is my time better look in my eyes, I'm a genius in disguise never wear my heart on my sleeve and you forced to oblige to a king in his prime, everybody get in line, sit back, watch the stars alignI finesse live my life on the line, was a diamond in the rough and now I shine. Ay, no one can stop me, they'll try but they won't
Ay, nada me puede parar, oh, no. I'm wide awake now, my eyes are wide open I'm running this world, I keeping it turning I'm living like giants, yeah, giants, I'm bigger than giants.

I AM ACE MARVEL!!

[staypositivefriend]

Catboi is mafia not wolf

if anything i think that it would be the opposite, right? he would have an incentive to try to tryhard and look towny as a wolf but not as mafia, bcuz if he tryharded as mafia it would increase the odds that he gets nightkilled

what in tf are you talking about? It's still multiball

-90

so...? the fact that it is multi-ball does not contradict anything that i said in that post. i think u need to read it again

I was wondering how wolf play would differ from mafia play?

-90[/quote

the answer is in the post that you quoted. i think that catboi is more likely to be a wolf than mafia (if he is mafia at all) because he is playing in a way that would increase his chances of being nightkilled by the wolves if he was mafia

[staypositivefriend]

oh god i kind of really think that abomination is town now

[staypositivefriend]

it is almost exclusively because 90's posts over the last few pages are easily the towniest stuff that slot has posted since the game started

[staypositivefriend]

it is almost exclusively because 90's posts over the last few pages are easily the towniest stuff that slot has posted since the game started

you already said this like 20 pages ago... get new reads please

no i literally had u in my POE for several real life days until right this moment it's not my fault if ur incapable of reading my posts

[staypositivefriend]

I'm actually not as sure on SPF because she could just be a pocketed townie who thinks she knows better

fwiw i am not married to a world where catboi is town i have just not been given any good reasons to think he is wolfy and "the dead townies scumread him" is not compelling enough reasoning to me

[staypositivefriend]

yeah abomination is just town tbh lol

[staypositivefriend]

the real solution to cooperating with abomination is just to ignore everything HK and ace marvel post and focus on the other ppl in the slot

[staypositivefriend]

fwiw i am not married to a world where catboi is town i have just not been given any good reasons to think he is wolfy and "the dead townies scumread him" is not compelling enough reasoning to me

that's not the only thing i've posted about catboi being scum but enjoy being in a pocket dear

ty i am enjoying myself

[staypositivefriend]

the real solution to cooperating with abomination is just to ignore everything HK and ace marvel post and focus on the other ppl in the slot

then I will just post so many Kpop videos that this thread will look like a "What are you listening now?" DO NOT TRY ME.

Rude gives you rude, if I was making the same case with anyone else, you would simply ignore it, but you want others to ignore it because you want to safe yourself, and that is not in character with you.

i want others to ignore it because i believe that you are confirmation biased and not showing any interest in communicating or cooperating with me at all. however i encourage u to spam k-pop videos

[staypositivefriend]

i am not voting either pooky or catboi today lol

[staypositivefriend]

there's a million obvious mafia in this game so even in a world where catboi/pooky contains a mafia i would rather just kill the obvious ones and deal with that later

[staypositivefriend]

i am not voting either pooky or catboi today lol

Ydrasse fine with you?

- Brad

sure

VOTE: Ydrasse

[staypositivefriend]

I think SPF is trying to discredit my read, because SPF knows she will get a reaction and everyone else will think I'm just omegas so they won't follow, that's a genius plan, because is pocketing Cape in case that fails.

clap clap

i dont need to discredit a read that is already essentially random

[staypositivefriend]

i am refusing to engage with the fight between pooky and catboi on the foundation that it is an extremely bad idea to resolve between them today and the common sense thing to do is to kill the millions of other howling wolves in the game before we resolve them

[staypositivefriend]

she is townreading catboi for reasons that exclusively make sense to rule out him being mafia. her reasoning does not make sense if she is sorting him for being a wolf as well - this only makes sense if she is a wolf and knows he is not a wolf.

she didnt even post yesterday when he was at e-1

she pops in to vote people with some random one liner bullshit

two of these popins are flipped townies

she is voting you

how r u even townreading this behavior.

about 50% of the people who aren't me are either mafia are wolves. i do not think that catboi is mafia, which means that he is statistically more likely to be town than most of the other players in the thread. he could be a wolf, but in a world where he was, i suspect that his solving might be a bit less fluid and malleable than it is, and that his TMI would probably come through in some way even if he was trying to scumhunt. since i think he can only be a wolf and since i dont find him actively suspicious, it means that he is >rand town

this read is so easy to understand that even babys first mafia player would be able to piece it together. i have nothing else to say about your read on me because it is based on an embarrassingly inaccurate misinterpretation of a read ive explained about 5 times now

[staypositivefriend]

also i did not post in this game yesterday because i have a life outside of this game. why are u trying to imply that it's wolfy for me not to post in a 24 hour period in a game with 7+ day deadlines lol

[staypositivefriend]

to be clear i am voting ydrasse because her posts feel the most uncomfortable and struggling to get into the game compared to almost anyone here. i am also willing to vote just about anyone else in my POE. there's probably one wolf within pooky/catboi/abomination that's voting for me but unfortunately i think the current wagon on me is mostly being driven by town who just dont understand how to read me

[staypositivefriend]

not really caught up with the thread yet and proly wont be for a while

[staypositivefriend]

also why are u implying that it's wolfy for me to have inaccurate reads when i would be incentivized to scumhunt regardless of my alignment? in a world where im a wolf or mafia then my reads would be authentic regardless, so trying to frame read accuracy as being alignment indicative is dishonest in a way that i almost want to scumread you for

[staypositivefriend]

i mean if catboi is going to vote me then i'll vote him for self-preservation but i would rather that it doesnt come to that

[staypositivefriend]

@DkKoba -

I will be v/la until tuesday

. i'll solve the rest of this game when i'm back. don't rush into any wagons or anything while i'm gone pls

[staypositivefriend]

just ftr, my lack of activity is not alignment indicative. i was out all weekend and am currently not able to focus on this game for ~REASONS~

that said, i'll dedicate some time to collecting my thoughts tomorrow. if anyone hammers me in the meantime im going to be mad

[staypositivefriend]

also,, it's not surprising that i'm being pushed on today since my activity has been low (which makes me an easier push by default) and since many of the players here have no idea how to read me correctly. that said, i think the fact that i am being viewed as the ~designated chop~ for the day gives me a unique vantage point to solve from

if i operate under the assumption that the wolfteam is probably going to be focused on killing the mafia (and vice versa), it actually makes it >rand unlikely that the wolves are contained within the people directly pushing on me. this is because from the perspective of the wolves, i am obviously not mafia, since i'm not stupid enough to hardbus ydrasse when it would be much more optimal for me to try to hunt for the wolves instead

so, the wolves are probably approaching today with the knowledge that i'm Not Mafia, which makes them >rand unlikely to be contained within the people hardpushing on me. i'm not sure if this train of thought will make sense to anyone else but it does to me

[staypositivefriend]

also,, it's not surprising that i'm being pushed on today since my activity has been low (which makes me an easier push by default) and since many of the players here have no idea how to read me correctly. that said, i think the fact that i am being viewed as the ~designated chop~ for the day gives me a unique vantage point to solve from

if i operate under the assumption that the wolfteam is probably going to be focused on killing the mafia (and vice versa), it actually makes it >rand unlikely that the wolves are contained within the people directly pushing on me. this is because from the perspective of the wolves, i am obviously not mafia, since i'm not stupid enough to hardbus ydrasse when it would be much more optimal for me to try to hunt for the wolves instead

so, the wolves are probably approaching today with the knowledge that i'm Not Mafia, which makes them >rand unlikely to be contained within the people hardpushing on me. i'm not sure if this train of thought will make sense to anyone else but it does to me

this increases the likliehood that pooky is town, since i think he has unassociated interactions with ydrasse, and since he's been one of the loudest voices calling for me to die today. it's possible that my assumption is incorrect but i think it's much more likely that pooky, as a wolf, would be focused on trying to figure out who the mafia are instead of pushing on someone who obviously cant be mafia from his point of view

so, i dont think he's mafia based on his interactions with ydrasse and i also don't think he's a wolf based on his approach to me, so it's probable that he's town with me and just pushing on me bcuz he doesn't know how to read me and genuinely believes that i'm a wolf for gamestate reasons. that's a good place to start

[staypositivefriend]

the downside of this train of thought is that by townreading the people who are hardpushing on me and wolfreading the people who are avoiding pushing on me im probably making it even more likely that im gonna die today anyway

but i dont really care about self-preservation at this point tbh

[staypositivefriend]

Votecount 2.FINAL

Ydrasse

(6): Arete Lastname, staypositivefriend, AbbyandRani, catboi, PookyTheMagicalBear, Not_Mafia HAMMERED

catboi

(2): Save The Dragons, Ydrasse

staypositivefriend

(1): The Abomination

Not Voting

(1): PenguinPower


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

A hammer has been achieved.

following this train of thought, i unfortunately am beginning to suspect that arete has a decent amount of wolfy equity. they were one of the most vocal names pushing for ydrasse to die yesterday (if i recall correctly - im going by memory so i could be wrong tbh) and their opening posts today feel like they potentially come from the mindset of someone trying to figure out who the mafia are so that they can nighkill them under the veneer of trying to Find The Wolves:

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

hi

I think that you/NotMafia/Penguin is three nontown

I think that your interactions with Ydrasse are the partneriest of anyone

if you claim mafia, and tell me to vote someone on that list, I will unvote and sheep you unquestioningly. I think that mafia is in the best position of anyone in the game to be able to figure out who, of those people, is a werewolf, like that should be either 2 mafia/1 werewolf or 1 mafia/2 werewolves

you don't need to tell me anything else, I'm not going to be like 'haha but who's your partner though' or like 'btw please make reads on these random people definitely not looking for spew' or anything

I am, obviously, misreading someone in my town group. if you really want to try to sell me on one of them being specifically-a-werewolf I will hear you out but you are going to have to actually sell it.

[staypositivefriend]

unfortunately if arete is a wolf then town proly already lost this game lol

[staypositivefriend]

I voted ydrasse because ultimately she was being a roadblock to the game and spf didn't feel right and time was getting short

I think pooky is town, I think a&r is town but I want to re-check this


I think save the dragons is likely to be mafia based on how he was playing and his interactions with ydrasse

I think spf is very unlikely to be mafia based on her calling out Taly right away

im pretty sure a&r is town too, and i think pooky is town as well

not really sure where else that leaves my reads

[staypositivefriend]

also ydra being annoyed at NM felt kinda partnery

Everyone is annoyed at me all the time

Vote the SabiHydra with me

Well that was an unfortunate night death. Why was there only one night kill if there's two groups?

Also why was night so long???

- sk

This is a wolf post

why is that post wolfy

[staypositivefriend]

well approximately half of the people not trying are just mafia who don't care

i was running and thinking that if there's a wolf in penguin/n_m it makes more sense to go for that today - ultimately if we kill a wolf we can probably get the game to 2:1:1 and then vote sleep so the wolf has to kill the mafia

but i will consider how likely i see spf wolf here

would not surprise me at all if the wolfteam was like arete + one in penguin/n_m

or, to be more specific, one in you/arete and one in penguin/n_m. i still think it's possible that ur snowing me but i would lean on arete being more likely to be a wolf than u atm

[staypositivefriend]

I think aftersun + sabihydra is the wolf solve.

arete's opening post about being pissed at the mafia for not claiming spoke to my soul

I guess it could be faked town fustration; if it is it fooled me.

dude the brad/sabi slot is obviously town and you have like 4 people with experience with them saying so, if ur town then pull ur shit together and stop pushing on them lol

[staypositivefriend]

SPF this is my POV rn:

ShadyKrew [STD, Peng, NM] contains 2 Mafia + 1 VT/Wolf
TownBloc [Catboi, SPF, Arete, SabiHydra] contains 2 VT/2 Wolf or 3 VT/1 Wolf

I am leaning towards 2 VT/2 Wolf because these kinds of games usually have at least like 1 townie who's lost and found their way into the bad part of town and it doesn't make that much sense imo for wolves to vote split

so if you are town, it should be pretty easy for you to give me a target inside TownBloc that you are comfortable pushing today.

fwiw i think it's much more likely that there's 1 wolf in the ShadyKrew and 1 wolf in the TownBloc as opposed to both wolves being in the TownBloc

if there's a wolf within the shadykrew i would lean on it being within peng/nm - there was something specific in STD's ISO that made me think he had a higher level of maf equity than wolf equity and in general, i think that the gamestate implies that one of peng/NM is more likely to be a wolf

within the townbloc, i'm pretty sure that the Sabihydra is town. i'm town. that leaves catboi and arete, and i don't think they make much sense as a wolfteam for a multitude of reasons. i think there is likely to be one wolf within arete/catboi but i think it is much more likely to be arete - this is largely because arete's play is easy to read as a player who is focused on finding the mafia team under the pretense of trying to find the wolves, and i also feel that the fact that they ARENT pushing on me even though i should have wolf equity from their point of view might be TMI that i'm town and that they knowi'm not mafia

so yeah i think it's proly one wolf within nm/peng (gth would lean nm) and one wolf in arete/gira (gth lean arete)

[staypositivefriend]

I think aftersun + sabihydra is the wolf solve.

arete's opening post about being pissed at the mafia for not claiming spoke to my soul

I guess it could be faked town fustration; if it is it fooled me.

dude the brad/sabi slot is obviously town and you have like 4 people with experience with them saying so, if ur town then pull ur shit together and stop pushing on them lol

I dunno I just asked Brad a simple question 1 min after he posted and he ghosted the shit out of me and I've been told he literally can't post when he's scum and I have no evidence he actually posted any of that shit he posted it could just be sabi cosplaying as brad

as someone who caught sabi as scum almost immediately in a game like 2 weeks ago, im almost positive that both of them are out of their ranes lol

[staypositivefriend]

like if you're sure of Catboi + Sabihydra being town then are you ok yeeting Arete?

arete is my top wolf suspect rn even though i think pushing on them is most likely going to result in me dying

im considering trying to find the wolf in n_m/penguin so that i have a higher chance of not dying today to be honest with u, but i think arete is the player here with the most direct equity to be a wolf

[staypositivefriend]

like if you're sure of Catboi + Sabihydra being town then are you ok yeeting Arete?

arete is my top wolf suspect rn even though i think pushing on them is most likely going to result in me dying

im considering trying to find the wolf in n_m/penguin so that i have a higher chance of not dying today to be honest with u, but i think arete is the player here with the most direct equity to be a wolf

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: SPF

Splitting the difference, I think Abby and Rani is independently scummier, but SPF is still scummy and has partner vibes with catboi

VOTE: staypositivefriend ~koba

kind of hard to believe that not_mafia believes anything theyre saying tbh

[staypositivefriend]

Why does my interaction with ydrasse look sus

you kept calling them scum but you never voted them and you voted people you had higher on your readlist than them over them, including specifically sharing a wagon with them

i thought catboi was scummier and i literally said that

this is functionally untrue

Hello everyone.

Town list:
SPF
Catboi
Spooky

Abomination is tough because they fall off or they post something I don't like at all and then there's times where 90 posts and I'm a fan of it.

Ydrasse looks... kinda better than Taly? Leaving her alone and waiting to see how she progresses with the game.

Right now my choices to vote would be 4Mask or Meditation.

Everyone else has been incapable of leaving any sort of mark or is unmemorable so far.

- Braaaaaad

Braaaaad, or can I say Mr. Wolf, in what universe has Ydrasse looked better than Taly? I'm asking because Taly at least made a few game relevant posts whereas I've seen nothing of the sort from Ydrasse.

+1 i think taly even though they made game related posts didn't do much of anything and ydrasse has done literally nothing but put up a readslist to this point it some partner equity here

^ here's where you talk about your Ydrasse read (suggesting she is scum)

town
staypositivefriend
The Abomination
Save The Dragons
PookyTheMagicalBear
Arete Lastname
Meditation

null
catboi
Not_Mafia

scum
4maskwolf
AbbyandRani
Ydrasse
PenguinPower

VOTE: PenguinPower

^ here you have her as your second highest scumread, whereas Catbae is null for you

(you also never vote Ydrasse after this point)

is doing nothing towny or scummy

i think it's scummy i think you're actively just floating in the thread doing nothing to make it look like you're playing but you're spending your time memeing

i also didn't like taly's entry so you're suffering from that as well

what part of my posting makes u think i’m trying to pass off my joking as playing

i think there’s a clear line drawn btwn content and the rest

i mean you're not really playing that much imo up until now

like idk

i look at my reads and they halfway match yours right

so we’re drawing similar conclusions

so do you think that i’m like tmi or sheeping or what

our reads can be similar? it just means we have similar reads. it's multiball, maybe we're both right maybe we're both wrong but saying we have similar reads and acting like they're the same is a little uncharitable

esp bc then i feel like

u should have catboi with me in mafia bc we’re thinking like

similar fmpov with different executions of energy

but you’ve left him there in the middle as a maybe

because it looks like he's trying to solve but he's not answering my questions so i put him in maybe

you don't look like you're trying to solve you're just memeing so i put you in scum

^ here you specifically explain why you think Ydrasse is scummier than Catbae

i also feel like ydrasse OMGUS'd me with her vote because i suspected her and i answered all her questions but she hasn't reassessed which makes me go hmm

these reads are all, like, really blatantly fake

why are you looking for fake reads in multiball is it because your reads are fake?

^ this is the closest thing I can find to an actual explanation of your points on Catbae and afaict it's a joke?

VOTE: catboi

^ here's your initial vote on Catbae, this is around the time I had started aggressively pushing Ydrasse

You know what I'm going to shut up since I'm still at work and read everything when everything calms down. This is too much chaos for me

- sk

pooky is going to flood the thread and throw a tantrum to try to get his way in order to drown out any possibility whatsoever of having actual discussion

how do i VOTE: catboi more

^ this could I guess also constitute an explanation of your read on Catbae

are we not doing obv scum catboi

^ here you call Catbae obvscum but don't explain why

so like

throughout this whole Iso you keep being like 'here are reasons that Ydrasse is scum' 'I think Ydrasse is worse than Catbae' but when Ydrasse actually came under pressure you were like 'actually I've decided we should kill Catbae instead' and barely gave any reasons

it's ok though all of this makes you mafia not a werewolf so we're not voting you out today (you should claim though so that you can pick an execution)

this is another post where arete tries to goad save the dragons into claiming mafia. i do understand why they would try to do that as town but their specific strategy of trying to make ppl claim/out themselves as mafia and their frustration over ydrasse not claiming mafia before dying does feel like it comes from the mindset of a wolf who is trying to sus out the opposing team as quickly as possible

[staypositivefriend]

alright i'm willing to do arete if catbae signs off on you being town

i doubt this is going to happen which is why i kind of just want to solve between n_m/penguin, lol. do u still think that penguin is town?

[staypositivefriend]

oh that bolding is hardly visible at all

the thing I was implying is that it's kinda absurd for SPF to suggest that me and Penguin are teamed

i was not thinking in terms of partner interactions when i made that post - i was thinking in terms of which pairs are most likely to contain the wolves based on my solving/gamestate. and also to be honest, if there's a good reason to dissociate you and penguin from each other, then you'll have to remind me bcuz i have goldfish memory

[staypositivefriend]

like of the 3 shadykrew I think NM has the highest town equity

is this how he usually plays as town....? most of his posts feel inauthentic to me

[staypositivefriend]

would not surprise me at all if the wolfteam was like

arete

+

one in

penguin

/n_m

don't super buy that this is a real thought

also don't super buy that 'Arete is a wolf for not pushing me [SPF]' is a real thought when I ....... wrote a giant wallpost the conclusion of which was that you were probably a wolf

also also don't buy that 'Arete is a wolf for being mad at Ydrasse for not claiming mafia' is a real thought, like Ydrasse ...... was dying, unless she claimed, wolf!Arete wouldn't have wanted her to claim because that could mean that a wolf gets voted out, and her claiming wouldn't have helped wolf!Arete kill mafia because her not claiming led directly to her being voted out and therefore dying

you wrote a wallpost where you concluded that i was a wolf? do you mind linking that to me again? i saw a post where u were hedging on my alignment and i did not perceive it as you wolfreading me at all, but i was skimming to catch up with the thread so i proly missed it

also point taken wrt to the "arete is mad at ydrasse for not claiming mafia" thing - i got my wires crossed there lol

[staypositivefriend]

so it seems like u agree with me that there's a wolf between penguin/not_mafia, even in a world where i'm a wolf with one of them. who do u think that would be atm?

[staypositivefriend]

if everyone here agrees that there's likely to be a wolf within me and arete and everyone also agrees that there's likely to be a wolf between not mafia and penguin power, i have a proposition

let me and arete spend the rest of the day deciding who we want to kill between not mafia and penguin power. if arete is a wolf, this puts them in the tricky position of having to decide if they want to bus their partner or if they want to try to powerwolf to the endgame. if i'm a wolf, it puts me in the same scenario

[staypositivefriend]

if everyone here agrees that there's likely to be a wolf within me and arete and everyone also agrees that there's likely to be a wolf between not mafia and penguin power, i have a proposition

let me and arete spend the rest of the day deciding who we want to kill between not mafia and penguin power. if arete is a wolf, this puts them in the tricky position of having to decide if they want to bus their partner or if they want to try to powerwolf to the endgame. if i'm a wolf, it puts me in the same scenario

although actually, if everyone does agree with me on this, i am already spewed town by penguin power and not mafia bcuz both of them are currently pushing for me to die, and it would be extremely stupid for them to bus in this scenario lol

[staypositivefriend]

even if u dont know how to read me, if u think penguin/nm contains a single wolf, i am blatantly spewed town by both of them

[staypositivefriend]

even if u dont know how to read me, if u think penguin/nm contains a single wolf, i am blatantly spewed town by both of them

actually i am literally spewed town on both fronts because i am obviously not mafia based on my interactions with ydrasse and i am obviously not a wolf based on how the other probable wolves (nm/penguin/arete) have all been interacting with me

i could be a wolf with someone else in the townbloc but im obviously not partnered with pooky or arete and im also pretty clearly not partnered with catboi

im just spewed town in general to be quite honest lol

[staypositivefriend]

i want everyone pushing on me for bad reasons to apologize and unvote upon the realization that it is literally impossible for me to be either mafia or a wolf

thank u

[staypositivefriend]

and if anyone continues to vote me after this i want them to say VERY clearly who they think i can be partnered with. i have zero partner equity with literally anyone here which means i should be considered clear by anyone who is even half paying attention to this game

[staypositivefriend]

damn im fired up

[staypositivefriend]

this is like the scene at the end of an anime where u think the main character is about to lose but then they get a second wind and destroy their enemies with one fell swoop

[staypositivefriend]

why would I apologize for pushing you when if your logic is right that just means my push is what cleared you

you should be thanking me for pushing you

i mean as long as ur acknowledging that im clearly town im satisfied either way

[staypositivefriend]

you could still be wolf with bradsabi I guess

as long as catbae thats Sabi+SPF is impossible as a team I am fine with it

if the sabi slot ends up being a wolf then i will eat multiple types of hats

[staypositivefriend]

if im wolfing with penguin here i would absolutely not let them put me at L-2 before ive even had the chance to post and try to fight my way out of it lol

and if i was going to go for a bus with penguin then our interactions would be much more dramatic than they currently however

that said i will concede that my interactions with penguin are probably the least clearing out of all the people that i am spewed Not Partnered with

[staypositivefriend]

also you can apply the same logic to me, and are Somehow Selectively Choosing To Not

there's not anyone alive who I can be partnered with

I guess unless you think that I'm specifically mafia with specifically STD and we're being super galaxy-brain about it

i dont see any reason why u couldnt be partnered with not_mafia and im also not sure that i buy ur claim that u/penguin are spewed non W/W with each other but i'll look into it more

[staypositivefriend]

dramatic like you and arete fighting about nonsense during d1 dramatic ?

yeah basically, im very much into wolf theater and doing dramatic crazy wifom stuff with my partners, and anyone here who has seen me wolf can confirm this

that said me/arete are def not partnered in this game either lol

[staypositivefriend]

is it POSSIBLE that not_mafia/penguin are just wolves together and me and arete are being forced into a dichotomy for no real good reason?

[staypositivefriend]

no cuz then mafia would have to be throwing and bussed ydra for lol reasons

to be honest i dont find this that improbable lol

but maybe i just want an easy world where arete is town

[staypositivefriend]

if im wolfing with penguin here i would absolutely not let them put me at L-2 before ive even had the chance to post and try to fight my way out of it lol

this assumes they'd listen to you

penguin does not strike me as the type of player who would put his partner at L-2 3+ days before the deadline before their partner asks them to, but idk how he plays so i cant say for sure ig

[staypositivefriend]

also you can apply the same logic to me, and are Somehow Selectively Choosing To Not

there's not anyone alive who I can be partnered with

I guess unless you think that I'm specifically mafia with specifically STD and we're being super galaxy-brain about it

i dont see any reason why u couldnt be partnered with not_mafia and im also not sure that i buy ur claim that u/penguin are spewed non W/W with each other but i'll look into it more

I'm not with N_M because they've been going out of their way today to directly appeal to me, try and come up with a vote I'm willing to follow them on, etc.

also because it hasn't been working but 'them doing them at all' is the major point here

i just skimmed n_m's iso and i think you are massively overstating how much theyve actually been appealing to you

[staypositivefriend]

well arete would have to be mafia instead of wolf then

there's no world in which the townbloc is pure town

i have a hard time believing anyone inside the townbloc is hard throwing by bussing in 5-3-2 because

everyone in the townbloc seems reasonably sane and knowledgable about basic mech.

i still think it's possible because i dont trust people to always play optimally

[staypositivefriend]

kind of think we should kill within n_m and penguin today im ngl

[staypositivefriend]

plus if we kill arete today and they are a wolf it means that we won't get to face off in an epic 1 v 1 battle like we are destined to do later in the game

[staypositivefriend]

gth i think that n_m is actually more likely to be a wolf than penguin (assuming there's only one between them) and the only thing throwing me off about that is pooky saying he thinks nm is town lol

[staypositivefriend]

you could just be wolf with arete

ok but im not

[staypositivefriend]

you could just be wolf with arete

ok but im not

[staypositivefriend]

gth i think that n_m is actually more likely to be a wolf than penguin (assuming there's only one between them) and the only thing throwing me off about that is pooky saying he thinks nm is town lol

why

(to the first part not the second)

i think n_m is more actively wolfy and incomprehensible than penguin (ie: his push on the sabi/brad slot) and in a world where ur a wolf, i also think that your interactions with n_m are more likely to be partner indicative than penguin's lol

[staypositivefriend]

I legit don't know if there is a wolf in ShadyKrew at all. I'm much more comfortable taking a shot in the TownBlock.

This just feels like you want to do scumtheatre with Arete and then let him go and go straight for the LHF pile again

which is pretty much what you said Wolves should be doing

ok but there's obviously a wolf in the shadykrew from my perspective, so why is it wolfy that i want to kill between them? u can be paranoid about the townblock all you want but it's obvious from my vantage point that there needs to be at least 1 within penguin/n_m

but yeah im doing scum theater with arete tbh

[staypositivefriend]

if i operate under the assumption that the wolfteam is probably going to be focused on killing the mafia (and vice versa), it actually makes it >rand unlikely that the wolves are contained within the people directly pushing on me. this is because from the perspective of the wolves, i am obviously not mafia, since i'm not stupid enough to hardbus ydrasse when it would be much more optimal for me to try to hunt for the wolves instead

like you literally said this is the wolf agenda

and you/arete only make modest distancy pokes at each other without actually voting each other

and you both want to lim in shadykrew

so there's no reason you can't be the wolf team with arete

????? i said that the wolf agenda is going to be focused on snuffing out the mafia team as quickly as possible, not that the wolf agenda is going to be focused on killing between not_mafia and penguin power. did u read my post correctly?

[staypositivefriend]

I legit don't know if there is a wolf in ShadyKrew at all. I'm much more comfortable taking a shot in the TownBlock.

This just feels like you want to do scumtheatre with Arete and then let him go and go straight for the LHF pile again

which is pretty much what you said Wolves should be doing

ok but there's obviously a wolf in the shadykrew from my perspective, so why is it wolfy that i want to kill between them? u can be paranoid about the townblock all you want but it's obvious from my vantage point that there needs to be at least 1 within penguin/n_m

but yeah im doing scum theater with arete tbh

I don't have your perspective.

I only have my perspective.

I am fairly sure shadyKrew is mostly mafia because of incentive structure in the game and how yesterday played out

I know ydra is yeeted mafia, the people who want her dead are the wolves, therefore they are in the townbloc, that's just basic VCA. I am going to hunt for wolves in the townblok

people in the townblok who come up with convoluted reasons to pretend everything is a-ok and the wolves are in the shady part of the town are probly just wolves trying to yeet mafia so I'm fine yeeting them.

and i'm fairly sure based on basic gamestate analysis that there needs to be at least one wolf within not mafia and penguin power and ive outlined my reasons for thinking so in excruciating detail

so, it's disingenious for you to act like im trying to "pretend that everything is a-ok" in the townblok when in reality i just want to find the obvious wolf and kill them so that i can win the game more easily and so that i can increase my chances of not dying today

[staypositivefriend]

i do think it's possible that arete could be town and that the team is n_m/penguin because the reasoning for thinking otherwise hinges on the idea that both teams played totally optimally, which is not a guarantee in a setup where only like 20% of people ae actually paying attention to the game. however, gth, i do think it's more likely than not that the exact solve is arete + one of penguin/n_m, which is the exact solve ive been repping since i started posting a few hours ago

at any rate, it's almost guaranteed that there's at least one wolf between not_mafia and penguin power, so why would i not be interested in trying to solve between them today? this forces arete (if they are a wolf) to take a stance that might be uncomfortable for them to take, and it increases the chances that i survive the day and am not the designated mischop, and me not getting chopped today raises the town equity for everyone here. it's the smart thing to do from both a solving POV and a survival POV

so you can theorize that im partnered with arete and trying to "protect" them if u really want, but dont act like it doesnt make complete and total sense for me to want to resolve between n_m/penguin from my current perspective

[staypositivefriend]

personally I am totally happy with yeeting SPF today!

I am mildly uncomfortable with putting them at E-1 although I acknowledge she was there earlier and nothing happened

yeah and that's probably because youre a wolf and dont want to be forced to bus ur partner today lol

and this is also why im probably going to get chopped if i try to push on you, since people are lazy and just gonna default to voting for me instead of actually trying to read my posts even though im towntelling out of my ass right now

[staypositivefriend]

????? i said that the wolf agenda is going to be focused on snuffing out the mafia team as quickly as possible, not that the wolf agenda is going to be focused on killing between not_mafia and penguin power. did u read my post correctly?

NM/PenguinPower/STD have the highest mafia equity in the game period. 2/3 of them are likely mafia

you want to kill in that group

that's you hunting for mafia under the veneer of hunting for wolf

the same thing you just accused Arete of doing not even 15 minutes ago

no i want to kill specifically within penguin/STD, which is probably 50% mafia and 50% wolf. shockingly, this is because i want to kill the wolves

[staypositivefriend]

ok SPF tell me how Arete/You are Town/Town SabiHydra is town and I'm town, r u saying Catboi is scum?

no in a world where you/me/arete/sabihydra are town, the exact team is probably not_mafia and penguinpower

there's an outside chance of catboi snowing all of us i guess but i dont really think it's the case rn

[staypositivefriend]

so, it's disingenious for you to act like im trying to "pretend that everything is a-ok" in the townblok when in reality i just want to find the obvious wolf and kill them so that i can win the game more easily and so that i can increase my chances of not dying today

if you are town it is much easier for you to hunt for wolf in the townblock rather than hunt for wolf in the shadykrew

your entire trajectory is nonsensical to me and I refuse to accept you pushing in shadykrew

I compromised yesterday and it got us nowhere, I am not repeating the mistake again today

it makes perfect sense and it's not my problem if u arent able to accept the reasons why i want to kill within not_mafia/penguin just because ur paranoid that im partnered with arete

[staypositivefriend]

chopping within nm/penguin today increases the odds that i dont die today (which is optimal for town), increases the odds that i spew myself as town by pushing on the wolf between them (which is optimal for town), and increases the odds that arete is forced to make the tough choice between bussing or protecting their partner (which is also optimal for town)

but yeah i just want to hunt for the mafia tbh!!! look at me being nefarious and underhanded

[staypositivefriend]

that said, i will vote arete today if it comes down to it, especially since they've said that they're willing to vote for me, lol. im just capable of reading a room and i understand that most people here dont know how to read me, so i perceive pushing within nm/penguin to give myself a higher chance of surviving than pushing on arete

[staypositivefriend]

ok SPF tell me how Arete/You are Town/Town SabiHydra is town and I'm town, r u saying Catboi is scum?

oh i dont know who the scum would be in that scenario and i dont really care tbh

definitely not catboi though

[staypositivefriend]

you understand there r 4 scum and 4 town right

you cannot convince me there r 5 town in this game

so?

[staypositivefriend]

i am hunting for the wolves. i do not care about who the mafia are rn at all

[staypositivefriend]

to be fair to SPF I don't think it really makes sense to view the sketchy crew as all having a 2/3 chance of being mafia and a 1/3 chance of being wolf I think it makes more sense to view STD as having a 1/1 chance of being mafia and the other two as being 50/50 coinflips

this is what ive been saying for about 2 hours now but pooky does not seem to be internalizing it

[staypositivefriend]

arete is 100% not bad at playing scum lol, them lying about their scum meta is proly the wolfiest thing theyve said so far

[staypositivefriend]

like let's say you're right about Sabi being town and I'm right about Catboi being town

that's Arete/You being 1 wolf 1 townie

and Penguin/STD/NM being 2 Mafia 1 Wolf

I don't see why you would want to take a 50:50 shot in Peng/NM rather than yeet Arete who is conf-wolf to you

chopping within nm/penguin today increases the odds that i dont die today (which is optimal for town), increases the odds that i spew myself as town by pushing on the wolf between them (which is optimal for town), and increases the odds that arete is forced to make the tough choice between bussing or protecting their partner (which is also optimal for town)

but yeah i just want to hunt for the mafia tbh!!! look at me being nefarious and underhanded

chopping within nm/penguin today increases the odds that i dont die today (which is optimal for town), increases the odds that i spew myself as town by pushing on the wolf between them (which is optimal for town), and increases the odds that arete is forced to make the tough choice between bussing or protecting their partner (which is also optimal for town)

but yeah i just want to hunt for the mafia tbh!!! look at me being nefarious and underhanded

chopping within nm/penguin today increases the odds that i dont die today (which is optimal for town), increases the odds that i spew myself as town by pushing on the wolf between them (which is optimal for town), and increases the odds that arete is forced to make the tough choice between bussing or protecting their partner (which is also optimal for town)

but yeah i just want to hunt for the mafia tbh!!! look at me being nefarious and underhanded

chopping within nm/penguin today increases the odds that i dont die today (which is optimal for town), increases the odds that i spew myself as town by pushing on the wolf between them (which is optimal for town), and increases the odds that arete is forced to make the tough choice between bussing or protecting their partner (which is also optimal for town)

but yeah i just want to hunt for the mafia tbh!!! look at me being nefarious and underhanded

[staypositivefriend]

that said, i will vote arete today if it comes down to it, especially since they've said that they're willing to vote for me, lol. im just capable of reading a room and i understand that most people here dont know how to read me, so i perceive pushing within nm/penguin to give myself a higher chance of surviving than pushing on arete

[staypositivefriend]

im just requoting my posts now because there's only so many times i can say literally the exact same thing before it gets old

[staypositivefriend]

so arete is 100% wolf to you

but you won't push them

because you think it will lead to you getting yeeted?

that's not the only reason, but it's part of it, yeah

nm and penguin are objectively easier to get killed than arete and i also have a reasonable amount of faith in myself to figure out which one of them is wolfing

[staypositivefriend]

you have to understand that im approaching this from a very life or death perspective. i entered the thread being put at L-2 in a thread full of people who are just lazily calling me wolf and not even putting in any effort to reading me or figuring out my alignment

so i have to do what's best for the game to avoid getting killed and increase the chances that i'm able to spew myself as town. atm, i perceive that to be through pushing through the easy to find wolf in nm/penguin than by pushing the more difficult to find and widely townread wolf that is likely to be in arete

if i started off today on even footing with arete then there's a higher chance that i would just thunderdome with them, but the chips are already stacked against me, so im thinking in terms of what is optimal

[staypositivefriend]

the downside of this train of thought is that by townreading the people who are hardpushing on me and wolfreading the people who are avoiding pushing on me im probably making it even more likely that im gonna die today anyway

but i dont really care about self-preservation at this point tbh

this is what you literally said

now you're saying you won't vote arete cuz self-pres

like you can't even keep your story straight anymore

i mean u just quoted a post where i acknowledged that pushing on arete would make me be likely to die. me dying today would be very bad for the game. do u expect me to roll over and be suicidal and push on arete knowing that it would result in my death like 90% of the time?

i can admit to being slightly hyperbolic when i said "i dont care about self preservation at this point" bcuz i said it out of frustration

[staypositivefriend]

the ironic part is that anyone who is even slightly familiar with my meta should know that im way out of my wolfrange at this point lol

[staypositivefriend]

ive been rusty as hell as mafia lately and quite literally got chopped on d1 of the most recent wolfgame i played because i could not convincingly towntell. bluekang can verify this. i doubt i could post this fluidly and authentically as a wolf in this scenario

[staypositivefriend]

arete is 100% not bad at playing scum lol, them lying about their scum meta is proly the wolfiest thing theyve said so far

you were

in

Poisoner SPF

like that is

the game

that makes people reluctant to clear me but if you actually look at my posts that game I basically outed myself day 1 and lived to endgame by virtue of my partners just throwing themselves on grenades by not playing

and I had pretty terrible progressions on literally all of them, which was what I was talking about in that post

that's not how i remember it tbh - i had trouble finding you as a wolf in that game based on the strength of your own posting and not just based on the fact that ur partners were wolfier than u. u definitely looked towny in that game and it was a struggle for me to find you

im not sure if ive seen you wolf outside of that game, but based solely on that experience, you are a very competent wolf at bare minimum

[staypositivefriend]

the ironic part is that anyone who is even slightly familiar with my meta should know that im way out of my wolfrange at this point lol

you have nothing to worry about if that's true because I'm sure catboi will save you from me then.

idk if he is very familiar with how to metaread me either but he probably has a better chance at finding me as town than you do i guess

no offense

[staypositivefriend]

I'm fine with letting Catboi make the decision between you/arete.

I suspect you're both scum and it won't even matter which one he chooses but I'm going to let him get the hero move.


You two both deciding not to vote each other despite more or less having knowledge that the other is 100% conf-scum is just LOL mindbending stuff.

yah i wonder why the widely scumread person at L-2 who is the designated mischop for the day would focus on trying to get the easier wolf killed instead of thunderdoming the wolf that people widely townread, it's really a head-scratcher, an absolute mystery

[staypositivefriend]

I'm fine with letting Catboi make the decision between you/arete.

I suspect you're both scum and it won't even matter which one he chooses but I'm going to let him get the hero move.


You two both deciding not to vote each other despite more or less having knowledge that the other is 100% conf-scum is just LOL mindbending stuff.

yah i wonder why the widely scumread person at L-2 who is the designated mischop for the day would focus on trying to get the easier wolf killed instead of thunderdoming the wolf that people widely townread, it's really a head-scratcher, an absolute mystery

where do you even get 5 votes for you?

You say anyone familiar with your meta would know you are town.

Catboi should be familiar with your meta, certainly more so than me.

So if Catboi townreads you, I'll sheep him, Brad thinks you're locktown because you're a female and you won't vote for yourself.

i don't understand the question you're asking, but the only people familiar with my meta in this game are brad, catboi, and arete (and abomination, but they're dead now). brad actually has a pretty good track record at reading me correctly. catboi has not played many games with me as of late and likely is not very familiar with the differences between my town meta and my wolf meta, even though they are quite distinct. i also do not think arete is particularly knowledgeable about how to read me by meta, and i think they're likely a wolf who wouldn't be honest even if they knew i was town anyway

so yah, i am obviously town to anyone who knows how to metaread me, but there's probably only one person here who actually knows how to

[staypositivefriend]

your excuse for why you won't vote Arete is that you won't do it because of self-preservation.

I am laying out that according to you, anyone even slightly familiar with your meta would know you are town here.

I assume Catboi fits under "slightly familiar"

So if Catboi townreads you, I'm commited to sheeping catboi and Brad won't vote for you and you won't vote for yourself - you literally have nothing to worry about in terms of getting yeeted for voting for Arete.

no, because like i just mentioned, i have only played a few games with catboi recently and i do not think they are particularly good at metareading me or identifying the differences between my town game and my wolf game. he could prove me wrong, though

[staypositivefriend]

It feels to me like both of you understand these three facts about this game:

[A] The Wolves want to yeet Mafia

The Mafia are likely inside [STD, NM, PP]

[C] SabiHydra + Catboi are likely town

[D] The other person in your pair is probably a Wolf.

yet you both have come up with the most ridiculous logic to not want to vote for each other.

I suspect this is because you are wolves together.

or:

A. there is confirmed to be at least one wolf within NM/PP, since STD is likely to be mafia off of spew

B. finding and killing the wolf within NM/PP gives me a higher chance of surviving and forces arete to choose if they want to bus their partner or not

C. i am still willing to vote arete if it comes down to it, i am just capable of doing basic gamestate analysis and know what the optimal thing to do for my survival is

idk dude it's really not that hard to understand as much as you stubbornly act like im saying something insane

[staypositivefriend]

that said i feel pretty fucking stupid for even bothering to advocate for chopping btwn nm/penguin when arete is just gonna push on me anyway since theyre a wolf lol

[staypositivefriend]

this entire exchange has just been me explaining extremely simple and easy to follow information and then pooky acting performatively outraged and pretending like he doesn't get it

[staypositivefriend]

well approximately half of the people not trying are just mafia who don't care

i was running and thinking that if there's a wolf in penguin/n_m it makes more sense to go for that today - ultimately if we kill a wolf we can probably get the game to 2:1:1 and then vote sleep so the wolf has to kill the mafia

but i will consider how likely i see spf wolf here

damn i guess catboi is a wolf too!