Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[kuribo]

some thoughts before i go back to bed:
I hate day 1

Firebringer is town, at least that's my gut. I do find FB to be one of the hardest players for me to read on this site, but that's just me

leaning town on Shea, though I do disagree about not liking FB bringing Ali into the conversation. At the time, the only game open was ours and it's not like our teammates were busy with their own games. If anything, I kinda like FB/Ali's enthusiasm for getting Ali involved. Also it seems like FB's thought process has been wide open and well-explained.

Jury's still out on Dunn but I at least like the volume of content. good lord, that's not saying much at all, I really need to re-read this stuff in the morning.
Titus I like what she's been doing but I also know that I can't necessarily read her as easily as I can some other players. At least not on Day 1.
Kinda iffy on dragoneater, the whole "lol why is everyone townreading me" was kinda weird on page two when that wasn't a thing
I feel like fey kinda accidentally towntold in a way that wouldn't be intuitive to fake
I don't like the idea of massclaiming, at least not at the moment. I do agree with Fire that we should claim our Day 1 roles on Day 2 etc

that's where I am for now, see y'all in the morning

[kuribo]

hey dragon

Kinda iffy on dragoneater, the whole "lol why is everyone townreading me" was kinda weird on page two when that wasn't a thing

why is it you can respond to everyone but me?

don't be scared I don't bite

I mean, I absolutely do bite

[kuribo]

Titus is fence sitting really hard this game. She is capable of playing this worthlessly as town, but not with a team she has to look out for and with other players she respects.

This is me/Firebringer town and Titus faking reads on both to position herself where she needs to be. She is going out of her way to be middle of the road.

Thestatusquo is almost a scumread because he is asking Titus all these questions and trying to get answers when personality wise he should just be voting her right now to force an answer.

I like your line of thinking here and honestly I find it fascinating that neither Titus nor Shea have addressed me despite both telling me before the start of Team Mafia that they were excited to play with me

I think I still TR Shea but that's probably because I disproportionately view effort as town

[kuribo]

Titus is fence sitting really hard this game. She is capable of playing this worthlessly as town, but not with a team she has to look out for and with other players she respects.

This is me/Firebringer town and Titus faking reads on both to position herself where she needs to be. She is going out of her way to be middle of the road.

Thestatusquo is almost a scumread because he is asking Titus all these questions and trying to get answers when personality wise he should just be voting her right now to force an answer.

I like your line of thinking here and honestly I find it fascinating that neither Titus nor Shea have addressed me despite both telling me before the start of Team Mafia that they were excited to play with me

I think I still TR Shea but that's probably because I disproportionately view effort as town

First of all how is it a good point when I AM in fact voting titus and have been almost literally the whole game. LLD's whole point is based on a false premise which makes me wonder if she's in fact reading this game at all. This is why I am incredibly dubious of "my tm says this my tm says that"

Second of all what have you done or said so far that you feel I should have been itching to address? I posted yesterday before you had done anything and I have posted like one inconsequential thing today.

I didn't say it's a "good point," I said I like the line of thinking. Dunn is making an attempt to sort you. There's a significant difference between what I said and what you interpreted it to be.

Your second question is fair and I retract my fascination toward you in that regard.

[kuribo]

RP is so far the opposite of tryhard

If you called FB's roleplay fluff, I'd be on board for that, even if I see it as NAI

But tryhard? Not even hardly

[kuribo]

[snipped out readlist]

VOTE: Titus

I really like most of your takes here, especially on Titus. Willing to vote here actually. And you get bonus town points.
VOTE: Titus

hey dragon

Kinda iffy on dragoneater, the whole "lol why is everyone townreading me" was kinda weird on page two when that wasn't a thing

why is it you can respond to everyone but me?

don't be scared I don't bite

I mean, I absolutely do bite

I honestly somehow missed your post completely? I am gonna read it in a few minutes, but I have to say I don't really understand what kind of response you looking for? You haven't really asked me a question.

I mean there's not much more to read, my main thing is that you meticulously go through responding to people and then don't even question me calling you iffy or wanting to know why I feel that way

[kuribo]

Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there

vote: Dragon

Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh

Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you

[kuribo]

Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there

vote: Dragon

Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh

Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you

Read my completed games - I've been called limbait several times on D1, different games.

Other people calling you limbait is not mutually exclusive to you using that as an excuse for your actions / an attempt to minimize any votes against you.

And for that matter, only after being repeatedly called out for it have you finally decided to analyze the people who were calling you town at an extremely early point in the game.

[kuribo]

I don't think Pink is nearly as scummy as he was in the game we played together a few weeks back, which is really saying something because PB was a third party that game and I let the rest of the town talk me out of pushing him day 1.

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.

Right, so one thing to keep in mind is that if you, say, get a neighbor role with someone else and you both actually get the role, then you're essentially masons because you're confirmed town to one another.

[kuribo]

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

I'm also trying to shake that feeling because it's not like I've been in town this weekend anyway. Idk. Day one is generally dogshit for me.

[kuribo]

I do have at least one super secret scum read that I'm not willing to jump into on day one anyway just because holy shit it's not worth the hassle of trying to make fetch happen this early. Some people are just hard / annoying to elim, esp on day 1, so I get it. Esp since I recognize that people see me the same way.

Buuuuut if you think I'm talking about you, then I very well might be and you should just NK me tonight

[kuribo]

y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1

/in

been there, done that, you held up good even though I was right and you weren't town lol

[kuribo]

To be fair, I was trying to be scummier than I usually am to avoid getting night killed in that game

I mean, I was right for the wrong reasons anyway.

Thought exercise. Pretend I'm handing you a gun. You can use it right now. Who do you shoot?

[kuribo]

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

Are you someone the wolves should be afraid of?

I'll ISO you here in a little and engage with you

Eh, I meant more along the lines of I'm a pain in the ass to argue with and I used to be... ummm, let's say really really toxic. I haven't been elim'd as town in over ten years now, so it's def a pain in the ass for scum to try and push me altogether. I don't play that way anymore, but you know how reputations go.

I did have a streak of a number of games a few years back where I tunneled on scum day one, but I'm also rusty. The last game I played, (the first in over a year, and my first non-hydra game in like, two or three) the one I mentioned to Pink just now, my reads were... I don't wanna say *bad*, but they were just left of center. But I got NK'd anyway, mostly because of the massclaim and the fact that I was a doctor.

[kuribo]

To be fair, I was trying to be scummier than I usually am to avoid getting night killed in that game

I mean, I was right for the wrong reasons anyway.

Thought exercise. Pretend I'm handing you a gun. You can use it right now. Who do you shoot?

Probably Klick

Sell it to me

[kuribo]

I don't think Pink is nearly as scummy as he was in the game we played together a few weeks back, which is really saying something because PB was a third party that game and I let the rest of the town talk me out of pushing him day 1.

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.

Right, so one thing to keep in mind is that if you, say, get a neighbor role with someone else and you both actually get the role, then you're essentially masons because you're confirmed town to one another.

I asked you a direct question about dragon that you haven't responded to.

I must have missed it, give me a sec and I'll find it

[kuribo]

Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there

vote: Dragon

Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh

Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you

Read my completed games - I've been called limbait several times on D1, different games.

Other people calling you limbait is not mutually exclusive to you using that as an excuse for your actions / an attempt to minimize any votes against you.

And for that matter, only after being repeatedly called out for it have you finally decided to analyze the people who were calling you town at an extremely early point in the game.

I kinda liked that reaction from dragon tbh. It felt idk pretty genuine to like see my post not as an attack but rather as a suggestion and start down the path of looking through klicks posts.

This? I don't see this as a question at all?

[kuribo]

FAs takes all feel...uh. Bad. Extremely bad.

If someone who is sus of dragoneater could tell me why they think the interaction with me was more likely to come from scum I'd appreciate it. FA and Kuribo both expressed this view I think.

Oh, here it is.

More like to come from scum than town is kind of a loaded way of saying it. I'd say that my gut tells me in this case it's worth pursuing whether it does come from scum or town. It's a jumping off point.

PEdit: I'm not ignoring you, dude, there are a lot of posts, I missed one, relax

[kuribo]

And the first post, the one where you "directly disagreed," the one that I quoted, I just didn't see it as something that needed responding to. Like, you and I don't see it the same way and that's fine. I saw your post more as you explaining your mindset in the matter.

[kuribo]

This one too. I'm interested in poking your dragon read because you seem to be reacting to things exactly opposite of me.

As I said, at the time I didn't see it as something you wanted a response to, I just figured you were throwing in your two cents. You do that a lot. And I don't say that as a criticism, you've mentioned yourself in this game that it's part of your style to comment on the goingson around you. I think that's fine that you do that. But you do have to understand that when you have dozens and dozens of posts, yes, there will be instances where people just figure you're offering commentary / putting your view on the record rather than asking for further input. What I'm saying is that if you do have direct questions, I'm not the brightest guy, it helps to be direct.

My scumread on Dragon isn't super strong. I even have a stronger scumread that, like I mention, just isn't worth pushing today. Interacting with Dragon for what I saw as "oh shit, yeah, I should have questioned why people called me town on page 2 instead of just bragging about it" is as good a jump-in point as any for me. Because that's ultimately how I saw his action in that. It was a retcon. An attempt to fix an oversight. Perhaps from inexperienced scum, perhaps from town who didn't realize that it can be indicative of buddying. My job here is to figure out which, and coming at Dragon for it is the best way I know how to do that.

[kuribo]

It's more of a strategical use of a vig rather than an actual scumread, but three main points on why Klick is the strategical good shot:
1. I felt like Klick was pocketing me with this post:

You might be on to something, lemme think about this

[kuribo]

Klick also was one of the people that called Dragon town early and agreed with GiF calling me town as well at a point when I hadn't really done much

@Pink Ball: Almost feels like Klick is trying to build an empire here

[kuribo]

Klick also was one of the people that called Dragon town early and agreed with GiF calling me town as well at a point when I hadn't really done much

@Pink Ball: Almost feels like Klick is trying to build an empire here

Are we buying Klick's explanation that it's much easier for him to find town than scum?

Both can be true though, Klick can find it easier to townhunt than to scumhunt, and Klick can be scum buddying up to others. Or even to his own buddies.

His town reads have little to no explanation or reasoning. Which is fine if it's "well, it's gut," because I play by gut a lot too. Hell, I've voted people just because I had DREAMS that they were scum. The problem though is that when you don't offer an explanation, it makes it a hundred times easier to just change that read later. Even platitudes about tone or activity level are better than nothing in my estimation, because scum doesn't have a legit reason to vote town. They only have illegitimate reasons, which makes not giving a reason at all kinda sus to me. Once or twice, esp during RVS, hey that's fine, but later? Ehhhhhh.

PEdit: Yeah, I don't wanna start throwing things at him while he's VLA, but I'm definitely keeping an eye there.

[kuribo]

This one too. I'm interested in poking your dragon read because you seem to be reacting to things exactly opposite of me.

As I said, at the time I didn't see it as something you wanted a response to, I just figured you were throwing in your two cents. You do that a lot. And I don't say that as a criticism, you've mentioned yourself in this game that it's part of your style to comment on the goingson around you. I think that's fine that you do that. But you do have to understand that when you have dozens and dozens of posts, yes, there will be instances where people just figure you're offering commentary / putting your view on the record rather than asking for further input. What I'm saying is that if you do have direct questions, I'm not the brightest guy, it helps to be direct.

My scumread on Dragon isn't super strong. I even have a stronger scumread that, like I mention, just isn't worth pushing today. Interacting with Dragon for what I saw as "oh shit, yeah, I should have questioned why people called me town on page 2 instead of just bragging about it" is as good a jump-in point as any for me. Because that's ultimately how I saw his action in that. It was a retcon. An attempt to fix an oversight. Perhaps from inexperienced scum, perhaps from town who didn't realize that it can be indicative of buddying. My job here is to figure out which, and coming at Dragon for it is the best way I know how to do that.

I think its a reasonable approach to my slot but I think its a weird view to hold while simultaneously saying people arent engaging with you.

What kind of engagement do you expect that you havent been getting?

I dunno, I guess it's just a general vibe that Mala and I were both getting, esp yesterday. Well, more like I suggested that in the discord and she agreed with me. In hindsight, it's possible I misread the situation that could just as easily be explained by the game having a lot of active posters and starting on the weekend where I was less active myself. I'm still learning not to just jump into games and start screaming at people and getting banned for it. It's been quite an adjustment lol

[kuribo]

I'm still interested in your answer to the question did dragons reaction to my pressure not feel genuine to you? Like there's a lot of ways to react to 'you don't seem interested in interrogating the easy town reads on you.'

Saying 'Oh, I didn't even think of that!' and then doing it seems like...incredibly on the nose if you're scum, no?

As I said, it's a jumping off point: ie, I'm still trying to figure out if his reaction to your pressure felt genuine to me.

To someone like you or I who wouldn't do that and have a lot of experience over, fifteen years on the site? Yes, it would be incredibly on the nose. For Dragon, who has significantly less experience? Inexperienced scum do things all the time that you or I wouldn't do.

[kuribo]

if you want to scream at me I won't report you.

Just for old times sakes.

thanks but I've found that playing that way is incredibly stressful for me and not good for my mental health

and besides I'm in a better place in life anyway than I was in 2012 during the heyday of "FUCK YOU I'LL RIP YOUR FUCKING SOUL OUT AND WIPE MY ASS WITH IT AND PUT IT BACK IN YOU 1V1 ME RIGHT NOW YOU PIG FUCKING IDIOT" etc

[kuribo]

I think my whole point is it doesnt seem like something inexperienced scum would do.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I maintain that it's possible, but the trick is figuring out if it happened.

[kuribo]

Your answer feels sort of evasive to me though and I don't understand why you would be evasive about this?

Because I'm not being evasive. I've explained quite clearly that I feel "Oh, there's no way inexperienced scum would do that" is a logical fallacy. I don't know how I could be any LESS evasive about that. It's a possibility I'm willing to explore and that you aren't. That's not evasive in the least.

[kuribo]

I do have at least one super secret scum read that I'm not willing to jump into on day one anyway just because holy shit it's not worth the hassle of trying to make fetch happen this early. Some people are just hard / annoying to elim, esp on day 1, so I get it. Esp since I recognize that people see me the same way.

Buuuuut if you think I'm talking about you, then I very well might be and you should just NK me tonight

I don't think this is about me, but i hope it is.

nah, I feel fairly confident at the moment that you're town

[kuribo]

Maybe i wouldn't NK though cause a 1v1 between me and Kuribo might be something scum me finds appealing. Not sure cause i think last time we got into a 1v1 Kuribo got banned...i think that was last team mafia. Kuribo correct me on this if im wrong, i think you did get a ban but my memory is shit.

I don't remember if I got banned or warned, but the number of games where I got banned or warned is unfortunately high enough that they blur together.

I did get banned for Pokemon mafia a year and a half ago which was like two days before my mom died. That was my first ban for in game behavior since like 2018.

[kuribo]

I'm really not reading any of this shit about multiball

Unless and until I see a flipped scum with a team name and a different color, I'm assuming it's one scum team

[kuribo]

I'm really not reading any of this shit about multiball

Unless and until I see a flipped scum with a team name and a different color, I'm assuming it's one scum team

different team name and color from what, exactly?

From each other?

[kuribo]

ie, in Weather Mafia II, when you flipped blue scum, your role was listed as (whatever) Mafia in blue, as opposed to red

A maf team flipping in a color other than red is almost always multiball

[kuribo]

No, but I do assume that in probably like 95% of games that a singular mafia team will flip with a red role name, even in theme games which is what I play exclusively

Names are iffier depending on the theme

And anyway, I do feel that setup spec is mostly noise at worst, useless busywork at best, and multiball speculation without evidence is even moreso.

[kuribo]

My to-do list for today involves going over the TSQ / Black interactions as well as reading the stuff I've skimmed over in regards to Drixx

what you like about what titus been doing btw there?

At the time I really liked Titus' investigative tone. Early game is tough and it didn't seem like she was setting up the pins, so to speak, rather that she was trying to figure out the ongoing game state. That said, I kinda go back and forth on Titus in my head at various points. I do know that if she's town and she has her head in the game, she will mercilessly corner and attack her scumreads. But I also recognize internally that I've never been able to read Titus very well. There are certain styles of play that I struggle somewhat with sorting (TSQ's is another, though I do believe he's town here) so I'm trying to adjust to that.

My point wasn't about him "try harding to sort the game" It was about try harding to post stuff. It felt like he senses an obligation to post a lot of stuff (including his RP stuff and the vote he did and he cased hard but was not about much to begin with) at that stage of game.

I just don't see it that way at all, if anything I see Firebringer's early posting as more town, not less.

why did he feel the need to do this when RVS window was closing and he was one of people who was doing it? I feel like dunn didn't really like how FB rp'ed in this when FB was just horseplaying with no intentions which cause the clash they had later on. so yeah by that word I didn't mean FB was being serious. I just mean FB was doing a lot of random stuff just for sake of doing them. if it makes more sense.

It makes sense, but I just don't think it happened. At that stage in the game, he could very easily have just done nothing at all. Fluff in the RVS stage is NAI to me. There's not really a scummy benefit to it because people tend to just wash over RVS posts anyway. It's easy to say in hindsight that the "RVS window was closing," but in the moment that RVS is happening, it's not always as easy to recognize that it's over until it's actually over. Does that make sense?

[kuribo]

@TSQ: Forgive me if you've addressed this and I've missed it, but:

You've tried to sell me on DragonEater as town. If he's town then someone on his wagon must be scum, right? At least one, if not several? Who's the scum on his wagon and why?

You've also asserted that you think it would be "too on-the-nose" for scumdragon to say, "Oh, right, I should have questioned that, lemme put in appearances right now." Keeping in mind that if he's scum he may be receiving coaching from 4 or 5 (or even 6 but for fucks sake let's not get back into setup spec) people, (Team Mafia teammates + a scumteam) does that change your opinion? Jeez, that's way too many parentheses for one sentence, lemme go find me an editor on fiverr or something. Okay, but anyway, what I'm asking you is if you feel that he WOULD be encouraged to try and paint someone as scum among the "hey thanks for townreading me everyone!" group. And yes, I know you go so far as to say "Well, find me one example of it ever happening," but I think that's an easy thing to say when you know as well as I do that there have been hundreds of hundreds of newbies pass through this site and a couple of thousand games at this point, and ain't nobody combing through all of that to find it. I'd be willing to bet that it almost certainly has happened on at least a couple of occasions. You could just as easily say things like "Show me one example of scum counter-claiming masons with their own buddy," or "Show me one example of a townie claiming to be a mason with a random player." I've seen both of those things happen. (Okay fine, in both cases DGB and I were the catalysts but I digress) The situation I'm proposing with Dragon is FAR more plausible than either of those situations that absolutely occurred.

You can't really argue that it would be "too on the nose" to do that for a newbie because while that may be your intuition, people do not always take the best course of action, nor do they always act rationally. Was he coached to respond the way he did? Did he just do it without realizing it was on the nose? Was he just not thinking at all because he panicked? I read you as town, Shea (mostly anyway, your playstyle is another that I struggle with getting a read on), and while I value your opinion here, I simply think you're incorrect and I find it hard to believe that you haven't considered the alternative that... y'know, maybe he just didn't realize how "on the nose" it would be.

[kuribo]

you should just say what you think. It might get lost in thread for now if people don't wanna support it but its something town can trace back to in later days based on flips and info.

Oh I meant to respond to this too

Nah, that scumread gets to stay a secret for now. Let 'em sweat and wonder if it's them.

[kuribo]

Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.

For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.

In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.

I always got around this by just working myself into a raw frenzy for real. That's why I hated when people would accuse me of "fake rage." Fake rage isn't a thing that usually happens, and it was never artificial with me. My *motivations* were sometimes illegitimate, but I would definitely crank myself up to eleven until I got to the point I couldn't return. Like I'd be full of shit about something, hand shaking while I screamed at somebody, then I'd be in the scum PT telling Katsuki how I was so pissed off I just wanted to replace out. Like, it didn't matter that the *initial* reason for the irritation wasn't town, I'd open up the floodgate and it'd just be thunderdome from there. And then there'd be the other times where it was personal fury instead of "lol kuribo mad" anger, which as mastina once pointed out were two very different things, the latter being cartoonish and comical, the former being an ugly toxic thing that made everyone uncomfortable.

Ah, I realize I'm probably an outlier in that.

[kuribo]

Frankly, I think that FA's outburst is largely justified at the very least in her own mind. I'd be pissed if I put a bunch of work into ISO'ing people and trying to catch up and sort the game state, and then having it brushed away as "souless." Okay, and don't get me wrong, if that's your opinion then it's your opinion. I disagree, I feel like the ISOs especially at the very least had conclusions that you could draw from her thought process. This isn't even a comment on the effort of putting together the ISOs: The thoughts and the reads she's drawn from them are right there on the page.

Are they legitimate conclusions? Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's definitely not soulless.

So from her perspective, she's trying, she just put a bunch of effort into reading and probably re-reading a handful of players, and then Klick comes along and votes her because... it felt soulless? That's just such a bizarre characterization of an activity that I saw as the complete opposite.

I'd probably be annoyed too.

[kuribo]

Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.

For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.

In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.

I always got around this by just working myself into a raw frenzy for real. That's why I hated when people would accuse me of "fake rage." Fake rage isn't a thing that usually happens, and it was never artificial with me. My *motivations* were sometimes illegitimate, but I would definitely crank myself up to eleven until I got to the point I couldn't return. Like I'd be full of shit about something, hand shaking while I screamed at somebody, then I'd be in the scum PT telling Katsuki how I was so pissed off I just wanted to replace out. Like, it didn't matter that the *initial* reason for the irritation wasn't town, I'd open up the floodgate and it'd just be thunderdome from there. And then there'd be the other times where it was personal fury instead of "lol kuribo mad" anger, which as mastina once pointed out were two very different things, the latter being cartoonish and comical, the former being an ugly toxic thing that made everyone uncomfortable.

Ah, I realize I'm probably an outlier in that.

I think you're better at rage than most people.

That's not a good thing and I'm really trying to learn without screeching threats into threads until my nose bleeds

[kuribo]

If your conclusion is 'FA is town for showing genuine-looking emotion', then yes that's something that I'm interested in discrediting.

If it's not, then I'm not sure what is.

This isn't addressed to me, but I'm gonna respond anyway just to head it off the past in the light of my last couple posts:

The genuine emotion isn't what makes it town to me. The reasoning and thought process behind that emotion is what makes it town. You made what she felt like was an unfair characterization of her playstyle, and frankly I agree. There *are* conclusions drawn throughout her ISO, and especially in her re-reads. If you think that her conclusions are wrong or scum-motivated then that's fine. But to characterize it as soulless is just outright incorrect.

[kuribo]

I owe kuribo a response too.

Do you still need more time about who the scum are on DE's wagon or?

[kuribo]

I owe kuribo a response too.

Do you still need more time about who the scum are on DE's wagon or?

I'm working, I have time for brief pop ins but not to write a dedicated post.

I'm bowling tonight so earliest I can get to it would be like 11-12 central.

I was hoping you'd just forget and I could do it tomorrow tbh.

At least you're honest

I'm working a double shift tomorrow so it can wait till tomorrow. You'll have all the time you need since I won't be around as much

[kuribo]

I've come to the conclusion that TM's pissing contests this year are my punishment from the mafia gods for fifteen years worth of making everyone else sit through my pissing contests

Anyway I'm gonna post a full reads list tonight

[kuribo]

I've come to the conclusion that TM's pissing contests this year are my punishment from the mafia gods for fifteen years worth of making everyone else sit through my pissing contests

Anyway I'm gonna post a full reads list tonight

This feels kinda dismissive of the 1v1. I don't think any part of that exchange involved who's better and I think I brought up some valid points here

What are your thoughts on PB?

It's not dismissive at all and it's more a commentary of several other pissing contests I'm currently having to read through so that I'm up to date on the games of my teammates

I lean town on PB; I have more thoughts about the slot and about your interactions with it but it'll have to wait until the patients are in bed

[kuribo]

Ohhhh if that's the case then my bad

[kuribo]

@TSQ- thank you for your response. No, I don't believe I would coach someone to respond the way he did. My asking that was my attempt to come at my perception from all angles and I wanted your input. Firstly because I do lean town on you, second because I consider your play style more viable than my own at certain stages. I knew that if I could get your perspective and if I can trust you (remains to be seen how completely, but for the moment) then maybe I'd see if I'm tunneling on something stupid.

Re wagonomics: I don't believe in them either, at least to the extent that some do. Although I have been a part of scum teams where we intentionally manipulated the vote counts and even manipulated interactions with other players to set up false associative tells. The main one that came to mind was Gay Mafia 1, where DGB, DeltaWave, Katsuki, and myself made a concerted effort to vote in a bloc and never vote one another no matter what. I mean, we lost, but it still happened. I digress though.

You acknowledging that you're willing to accept that his wagon could be 100% town is an assertion that leans me further toward you being town. You've appeased me for now in regards to dragon

I'm willing to poke at GuyInFreezer for a while, but I am still mostly working all day today from 7a -11p

UNVOTE

Vote: GuyInFreezer

[kuribo]

bro use the vote tags lmao

Code: Select all

[vote]shea[/vote]
[v]shea[/v]

It's so much nicer lol.

You keep your new fangled forums voodoo out of this consarnit

[kuribo]

Before I start posting this evening, I just want to let everyone know that my upper respiratory whatever has caught up with me and they sent me home from work early. I've barely slept in three days, I'm sore, I'm tired, I'm vomiting, and I have no patience for foolishness. So if any of you say "oh hey there's kuribo lemme just drag him into some foolishness," I'd politely ask you not to. None of us really want my brand of foolishness mixing in with the general foolishness mass. So no foolishness. Also no shenanigans.

So my promised thoughts on Pink Ball:

I've been leaning town on Pink Ball for quite some time. It's not a super super strong lean, I do have other stronger leans. Pink Ball's posting in this game have a more free and easy tone than what I experienced with PB when he was third party. It does seem like PB is trying to figure the game out and poke at the leads where he feels he's found them. I'm also a bit partial to the poking PB did on Klick.

Thing about PB is that my town lean is a lot of gut. Okay, I get it, people don't like to hear that, but I do play on gut and general vibe I get from people. Especially considering I've removed the whole "HEY YOU IGNEOUS IDIOT 1V1 ME" toxicity from my arsenal. And I mean, that's an adjustment for me because watching how people react to that kind of relentless mania was like... my entire style. That and OMGUS.

So also, I do like PB's #1122, even if I don't agree with a lot of the reads. Disagreeing with me on reads doesn't make someone scum as long as I can understand there's a basis or a progression. Or if you've conjured an ancient entity to reveal the secrets of the game to you, that also works for me.

More recently, I'm considering PB's interactions with Black and later Dunn to be town-motivated. Of the three, I kinda feel like PB came out looking the towniest of them. The DragonEater case is interesting on the surface and seems well-thought out. I'm still not super thrilled on Dragon's slot, even if I'm willing to give it some breathing room thanks to Shea, so I appreciated PB explaining his mindset toward the slot.

Finally, one thing about reading emotional interactions is that you can often pick up associative tells between players, even on day 1. Not like, rock-solid stuff, but more things to keep note of if one person later flips scum. You may disagree with me on that, but I've done it before and I've been spot on many times. These are mainly hypothetical and they're mostly for my own thought process to keep in mind, so I guess it's hard to explain. Like, I can be town reading someone and say to myself, "Well, if I'm wrong and they're scum, their buddies probably aren't within X or Y, but maybe Z or W." With that in mind, I feel moderately confident that IF either PB or Black is scum, they're not buddies together. Dunn is kind of a wild card here and if either PB or Black flipped scum I'd have to re-evaluate the entire exchange along with Dunn's interjection. There are a couple of other associative pairings / non-pairings that I've picked up on and I'll get into those a bit more as well.

More posting coming after I hit the cough syrup again. Shoulda got the stuff without the acetaminophen and guafinesen so I could completely dissociate and just post from the shadowrealm instead. Ah shit, no wonder I'm vomiting, fuckin mucinex.

[kuribo]

Heads up I'm on VLA while I sort out this respiratory shit

I keep trying to come back to the thread and read up on the stuff I wanna read up on and articulate my thoughts and it's all just a haze rn

I'll be around but not around around

[kuribo]

I'll fight to the death for Ircher, we're not doing Ircher

[kuribo]

I'll fight to the death for Ircher, we're not doing Ircher

Kind of scary comment from someone who is having medical issues. O.O

Please do not fight to the literal death.

Then read between the lines, Ircher is town

[kuribo]

i think some of kuribo's content is pretty NAI and he got tr for it

i do like this sudden passion for Ircher though ngl not sure where it comes from but it's cool

then come at me, we can do this if you want

[kuribo]

kuribo just feels a little different from the anything upick where he was obvtown is my biggest problem

kUriBo fEeLs dIfFeReNT

explain

[kuribo]

like, let's not split hairs, I'm STILL not for shenanigans or bullshit

I've been working 70 hours a week with a nasty respiratory infection, literally got sent home from work because I had a meltdown and can't stop coughing, the only thing getting me through my shifts is shitty cough syrup

I barely have the energy to do my laundry and I gotta drag myself to work despite the fact that one of my patients has spit directly in my FACE on two occasions this week and I'm coughing so relentlessly that I have a hospice patient who keeps asking me am I okay

so come on STD, tell me how I "feel different" because this, this right here is exactly the shenanigans

[kuribo]

I am interested in why because to me I didn't love snakes content while he was here and he had like 20 posts and I struggle to see what Ircher has done that is readable at all.

This is a curiosity poke, please help me see what you're seeing.

I'm fucking telling you read between the lines

[kuribo]

i want more content from you to determine your alignment is all because in the pick game you were easy to spot as town and here you're not\

i'm not saying you're 100% scum based on my feels man

Alright buddy, here's your content

Pretend I have a gun pointed at your head right now, tell me where you'd tell me to point it instead

If you answer "ircher," it's you.

[kuribo]

i want more content from you to determine your alignment is all because in the pick game you were easy to spot as town and here you're not\

i'm not saying you're 100% scum based on my feels man

Alright buddy, here's your content

Pretend I have a gun pointed at your head right now, tell me where you'd tell me to point it instead

If you answer "ircher," it's you.

i think it's pretty obvious i'd do drixx

sell me on it because every god damn time I try to go back and read the stuff I've skimmed I just come across another slapfight or a mass of words that don't make sense to my brain

[kuribo]

Someone townreading Klick tell me why that slot's town

[kuribo]

Someone townreading Klick tell me why that slot's town

Obvious solving.

Why won't you vote GiF? Why are you trying to start a fresh wagon?

I'M LITERALLY VOTING GIF

why don't you want me exploring other options while I'm doing that?

[kuribo]

like, do you really think the guy is gonna feel pressured to post on his birthday

do you wanna just like, halt discussion while people who ARE ALREADY VOTING FOR HIM just sit around waiting for him to not be having his birthday

[kuribo]

Spoiler: Scene 8

[The camera pans across a dimly lit warehouse, filled with crates and boxes. Suddenly, a group of armed men enter the room, led by a tall, imposing figure with a scar across his cheek.]

Boss: [addressing the men] Alright, listen up. The shipment needs to be delivered to the docks by tomorrow night. We can't afford any mistakes.

[Just then, a group of masked figures bursts into the warehouse, guns blazing. The two groups engage in a fierce gunfight, with bullets flying in every direction.]

Doctor: [to Engineer] This doesn't look good. We need to find a way out of here.

Engineer: [nodding] I agree. Let's make our way to the exit.

[As they try to make their way to the exit, they are confronted by one of the boss's men.]

Detective: [drawing her gun] Looks like we'll have to fight our way out.

Chemist: [looking around nervously] We need to be careful. We don't know what's in these crates.

[The group continues to fight their way through the warehouse, dodging bullets and taking out the boss's men. As they approach the exit, they hear a mysterious voice over the intercom.]

Voice: [laughing] You thought you could just waltz in here and take what you want? Think again. The boss always wins.

Vote Count

DragonEater70 - 4

(Frozen Angel, Drixx, Feysal, Pink Ball)

Frozen Angel - 2

(Titus, GuyInFreezer)

Pink Ball - 1

(Black)

Black - 1

(Thestatusquo)

Feysal - 1

(Firebringer)

Drixx - 1

(Save The Dragons)

GuyInFreezer - 1

(Kuribo)

Not Voting - 4

(DragonEater70, Dunnstral, Ircher, Klick)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Not only am I already voting GiF, I WAS HERE BEFORE YOU

[kuribo]

Someone townreading Klick tell me why that slot's town

Obvious solving.

Why won't you vote GiF? Why are you trying to start a fresh wagon?

I'M LITERALLY VOTING GIF

why don't you want me exploring other options while I'm doing that?

Sorry. Carry on. I thought you were voting elsewhere. Apologies.

Are you even paying attention to the votes? You want GiF murked but you don't seem to care who's on the wagon

[kuribo]

I get a general sense of the possibilities here. I'm just not super happy with an empty slot being given cover to continue being empty. I wanted to push Ircher to weigh in and take positions and give us stuff to work with. I feel like you gave a free pass not to do that

Well tough shit, it's not fucking happening.

[kuribo]

here's the thing drixx

Ircher's been in that slot less than 24 hours, most of that was overnight, replacing into a SEVENTY FOUR PAGE GAME

NOW all of a sudden, you're like "LET'S PRESSURE HIM VOTES PLZ"

What, you want him to just make shit up? Not read it? Oh, but it's so fuckin easy to "hey let's pressure this slot that hasn't done anything yet" and then "ooopsie looks like we accidentally ran them up and hammered them tee hee oh well oh shit he was town oh well."

There's no fucking point, none whatsoever to "pressure voting" a slot that JUST REPLACED INTO A LENGTHY GAME

[kuribo]

what's voting it gonna do anyway? MAKE HIM READ FASTER

[kuribo]

I'll fight to the death for Ircher, we're not doing Ircher

Kind of scary comment from someone who is having medical issues. O.O

Please do not fight to the literal death.

Then read between the lines, Ircher is town

You know what would be really towny? Delivering on the promises this post makes immediately instead of waiting about 3-4 game days to come up with a reason this is a thing

I ain't gotta tell you a god damn thing, so either 1v1 me or fucking drop it

[kuribo]

Your fishing expedition is noted

[kuribo]

Your fishing expedition is noted

I heavily doubt you have anything worth heavily hinting at but not revealing and if you don't I'm going to make absolutely sure that you don't live for it when the time comes.

Scum ass trying to piss me off into a fucking claim when anyone with half a god damn brain knows I sure as hell don't go to bat for lurkass buddies esp on day 1

[kuribo]

Your fishing expedition is noted

I heavily doubt you have anything worth heavily hinting at but not revealing and if you don't I'm going to make absolutely sure that you don't live for it when the time comes.

Scum ass trying to piss me off into a fucking claim when anyone with half a god damn brain knows I sure as hell don't go to bat for lurkass buddies esp on day 1

You're right, I find it more likely that you'd fakeclaim something like this about town as scum

Guess again scumfuck I've never once lied as town

unvote

Vote: klick

You don't Fucking get to push me after I said Repeatedly that I am not in the mood for bullshit and then walk away


Pedit: go to hell

[kuribo]

I'm out for the day, either vote me or klick I could give a fuck

[kuribo]

I think its kind of reasonable to be skeptical of some sort of role based reason to go to bat for a lurk slot in a game where the mechanics seem to preclude such things today.

But I don't know why we need to scream about it and try to resolve it right this instant.

Because there is SIGNIFICANT FUCKING TOWN EQUITY in this

[kuribo]

if i were to make a townblock i guess it would look something like:

{Ircher, Titus, Pink Ball, GIF, StD, Dunnstral}

would need one more. I guess i could throw you in. I kind of just threw in Dunnstral because teammates have shouted me down from it. Idk I don't actually have 7 people to call a lock down group. Alisae wants to include Klick and i feel klick is probably town, but im not at that 90% mark. I am probably not there with Dunny boi either kind of just reluctant to consider him scum anymore cause mentally taxing.

Feysal - its hard to read his tone, i dont' feel his sorting style but i read his posts differently now then when i first pushed. Ehhh
FA - weak townie?
Drixx---I think alisae said town. I am like so null on Drixx i should really have something now i think alisae had a point that somethig drixx said indicated a townslip or highly indicative of town should go back and read logs. didn't find it convincing.
Dragoneater - so meh. He started to 'try hard' and it felt more of same as before. Could elim, not very super excited about it. Pretty boring scumread
Kuribo - null possibly scum? Would be a spicy wagon. Would rather have a scum kuribo with us for awhile. Think he will kill some of his teammates for us.
Shea ---lots of things make me want to townread. I think reluctance there was recent miss. Also that game probably biased me as his slot he rep in i townread? idk i only figured him out in that game when it was so obvious and he wasn't trying. Scum shea is much better than hollow knight.


I guess those general game thoughts. Anything in particular you guys want to chat about.

Wouldn't be a spicy wagon cause scum's gonna shoot me tonuhr anyway

[kuribo]

idk I think Pinkie is gonna die tonight. I have it on good authority

I've literally and repeatedly asserted that I 100% know ircher to be town

Read between the god damn lines and help me kill scum so my death isn't in vain for Christ's sake

[kuribo]

idk I think Pinkie is gonna die tonight. I have it on good authority

I've literally and repeatedly asserted that I 100% know ircher to be town

Read between the god damn lines and help me kill scum so my death isn't in vain for Christ's sake

Bro, you know im stupid.
This ain't 2010, you can't shout me to death to get me to vote with you.
Also mechanics are for squares. I don't care what ur hinting at.

IRCHER AND I ARE FUCKING MASONS

[kuribo]

For fucks sake

[kuribo]

Real fucking nice too, this piece of shit town with players that think they're so fucking good

You know what a masonry is in amnesia?!

It's a fucking ROLLING CASCADE OF TOWN CONFIRMATIONS because whoever gets the roles AFTER US is also confirmed


And this town couldn't even let shit breathe for one fucking day.

You people I Fucking swear

[kuribo]

Remind me why I should care

Some people actually wanna fucking win instead of meming all fucking day

[kuribo]

how does a mason work in an amnesiac game.
That doesn't even make sense.

I don't give a shit about your claim.

WE GET A PT YOU MORON


AND WHEB THE ROLE PASSES TO SOMEONE ELSE

THEY GET OUR PT

[kuribo]

idk I think Pinkie is gonna die tonight. I have it on good authority

I've literally and repeatedly asserted that I 100% know ircher to be town

Read between the god damn lines and help me kill scum so my death isn't in vain for Christ's sake

Bro, you know im stupid.
This ain't 2010, you can't shout me to death to get me to vote with you.
Also mechanics are for squares. I don't care what ur hinting at.

IRCHER AND I ARE FUCKING MASONS

I mean yes literally everyone knew thats what you were driving at. I don't understand how that works with the mechanics of this game even a little bit though.

Jesus Christ

We get a PT. If the role goes to town, both town players get the PT. Anyone who gets the role on day 2 gets it instead of us

If scum or the dead get one of the mason roles, they don't actually get the role and the Pt only goes to town players who get the role


It's not that Fucking hard

[kuribo]

You're telling me theres a mechanic in this game where we just get two free conf town roles every day?

What?

There's no way theres any world in which thats balanced?

WOULDA BEEN REAL FUCKING NICE NOT TO HAVE HAD TL OUT IT

[kuribo]

You're telling me theres a mechanic in this game where we just get two free conf town roles every day?

What?

There's no way theres any world in which thats balanced?

And you don't necessarily get free confirmations every day because the roles don't always go to town or to the living

[kuribo]

bro in no world did you have to out that. fucking christ. there werent even any fucking votes on ircher when you started doing your screamy bits.

BE AUSE IM STUCK BEING MASONS TO A FUCKING PERPETUAL LURKSACK SLOT AND I FREL LIKE SHIT


ALL I WANTED TO FUCKIBG do was CHUG COUGH SYRUP AMD STAY TGE FUCK AWAY FROM MAFIA


BUT NOOO

[kuribo]

What did I just walk into

a horrid fake claim

then nut the fuck up and vote me you fucking asshole

[kuribo]

firebringer always on some fucking bullshit

[kuribo]

What did I just walk into

a horrid fake claim

then nut the fuck up and vote me you fucking asshole

What part of I don't care about your claim. Do you not understand

you're a shitty player, and I don't think I've ever fucking said that to anyone on this site

vote me, watch my flip, then go crawl in your stupid cummy little shame hole

[kuribo]

the worst part fuirebringer is that i like you as a person, but holy shit playing mafia with you has never been a pleasant experience for me because i knpow god damn well you push my buttons on purpose, whether because you're a shitty player oyou just think it's funyn or whatever and my stupid ass walks right into it every timne

[kuribo]

and i try, i fucking try, i try REAL FUCKIN HARD not to be a toxic piece of shit because god knows who the fuck wants to be pissed off all the time, who the fuck wants to be a toxic piece of shit, but then i gotta deal with 'oh kuribo acts different this game' kinda soft accusation bullshit oh we won't vote him today but lemme leave the window open that he might be scum

like, that's not just to firebringer, that's to all of y'all, it never fucking occurred to you that i'm fucking sick, i'm tired, i'm trying my god damnedest to play mafia without being a piece of shit, AND CURRENTLY FAILING PRETTY FUCKING MISERABLY

you know how fucking hard it is to try and change a playstyle you've been at for FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS?

so when i ask for some fucking breathing room, the last thing i need os MORE SOFT ACCUSATIONS

[kuribo]

I don’t need to ask Jingle to see that kuribo is telling the truth. Why would he lie about it if it’s going to be called out tomorrow

Did you not just see he gave himself an out that if town players don't get it they won't be masons.

Wait why am i arguing about this. I don't care what Kuribo role is.

Somehow i went from not caring to caring. Gross

THAT'S WHAT AMNESIA FUCKING IS

[kuribo]

Wait is it confirmed that scum get roles too?

THEY GET THE ROLE PMS BUT THEY DON'T GET THE ROLES

[kuribo]

Members of the town will get a generic Factional Role PM as shown below during Night 0 in the pre-game phase. At Dawn, members of the town will receive their Amnesiac Role. There are a number of roles in rotation that will be randomly distributed each Dawn Phase. That means that even dead players will be assigned Amnesiac Roles at Dawn. (Though they will not be PMed, since they are dead) The Mafia Team will be assigned Amnesiac Roles in the same random manner, though the roles will not be granted to them.

IT'S LITERALLY RIGHT IN THE FUCKING RULES

[kuribo]

the worst part fuirebringer is that i like you as a person, but holy shit playing mafia with you has never been a pleasant experience for me because i knpow god damn well you push my buttons on purpose, whether because you're a shitty player oyou just think it's funyn or whatever and my stupid ass walks right into it every timne

i was thinking if i should respond to this. i guess ill just say, ill take u in good faith here about how u feel for a hot minute so i am here for fun buddy.
U do u. I do me. W/e floats ur boat and all that jazz.

not even trying to push a button.

well I hope your ass is having a lot of fun now

[kuribo]

Kuribo, I say this as a fucking friend: role claim and all of that aside, you are so far over the line here right now that you couldn't see it in the distance if you fucking turned around and used a fucking telescope.

I don't know what you need to do to fucking calm down here, but you need to leave the thread at the very least and I think whatever you can possibly do to go to bed and get some rest would be advisable.

you're probably right

[kuribo]

***

***

I have a mechanics-related announcement to make. I'm pretty excited for this one, but after last time I made sure to confirm what I'm about to do is allowed and actually works. I've tagged both Kuribo and Ircher above, because I want them to notice this.

I have devised a method to not only confirm Kuribo and Ircher, but all future masons, regardless of whether there are any living masons to vouch for them.

The method works like this. Kuribo can post a list of encrypted messages in thread. Each message has been encrypted using a different key. Kuribo posts the list of keys in the mason PT. 10 messages and 10 keys should be more than we will ever need. And now, every time a mason needs to confirm their mason status, all they need to do is find the next unused key from the list and post it in thread with the next undecrypted message and its plain text translation.

This can be done using an online tool such as this one.

I will give an example. Suppose the next unused secret message is this:
vXTSEfE17f9ndzIH3ojTqFlHgcwa2y37G/EN16FSxUromT8vI/9urgoVTiyIuQjhe+hBBbD6mdIT2M68PPaPB4tBhHRwVQdMb32wwcn4SZg=

And the next unused key in the mason PT is this:
D66EC005F44BA5C3

Enter these in the decryption tool linked above, click "Decrypt" and "Decode to Plain Text", and you will get this secret message:
Deep is our blow, invincible wrath, we have no mercy, no homeland.

Only masons will ever be able to do this, because only masons will have access to the PT where the keys are posted. Even if Kuribo and Ircher both die, using this method even a single mason with no one to vouch for them will be able to confirm that they are a mason.

We can even do this today, if Kuribo and Ircher want to have a test run. One of them can post the secret message, the other posts the key needed to decrypt it.

I don't know if I just broke the game, but if we do this, the potential is

huge

.

Blue snake thought of a system and we already have one in place waiting for whoever comes after us

[kuribo]

And no, it doesn't use secret encryption, it uses only stuff available as part of the game as outlined in the rules

[kuribo]

Bruh I literally day killed in a game with BOTH of you like 5 months ago.

bring back bad idea you coward

[kuribo]

looking over player lists it seems like most teams besides mine put their best player in the large theme.

we put our worst instead.

Same

[kuribo]

I'm already voting scum

Other scum reads are Black, one of DE/GiF but not both, one of Drixx/Dunn/Titus but not any combination of the three

Feysal townslipped extremely hard early on and keeps being town, Firebringer is town, and if TSQ is scum then we're all fucked anyway

I'm a dead man tonight so see y'all in a month for the TM postgames thread

[kuribo]

Fourth bleh

[kuribo]

You know what, do whatever the fuck you're gonna do to me today


How the fuck Romeo and Juliet gonna be roles in this and I get Juliet on day one and romeo on day 2

Between that and things I can't speak about I'm getting pretty fucked over in this game and I'm annoyed so if you wanna lim me then lim me

Just do it quickly ffs

[kuribo]

You know what, do whatever the fuck you're gonna do to me today


How the fuck Romeo and Juliet gonna be roles in this and I get Juliet on day one and romeo on day 2

Between that and things I can't speak about I'm getting pretty fucked over in this game and I'm annoyed so if you wanna lim me then lim me

Just do it quickly ffs

You got mason again? No shot...

I got the other fucking half of the role I got day one

One person gets Romeo and the other gets Juliet

[kuribo]

You know what, do whatever the fuck you're gonna do to me today


How the fuck Romeo and Juliet gonna be roles in this and I get Juliet on day one and romeo on day 2

Between that and things I can't speak about I'm getting pretty fucked over in this game and I'm annoyed so if you wanna lim me then lim me

Just do it quickly ffs

You got mason again? No shot...

That's not what he said. And ... while 2/x is not necessarily a high probability, it's definitely within the possibility space.

And ... let's assume Kuribo is bullshitting. What's the game plan?

Kuribo claimed mason as a lover.

FINALLY SOMEONS FUXKING GETS IT

[kuribo]

THATS WHY THE FUCKING "BALANCE" DIDNT MAKE SENSE

TOWN LOVERS ARE NEGATIVE FUCKING UTILITY

[kuribo]

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK ID GO TO BAT FOR SNAKE AND IRCHER OF ALL FUCKING PEOPLE

I SURE AS HELL WASNT ABOUT TO WATCH MYSELF DIE DAY ONE AS A LOVER TO A LURKSACK

[kuribo]

What.

That makes even less sense. If you're lovers why would you claim masons a role which scum very much might night kill?

Because look at the fucking slot I was handcuffed to

If y'all limmed either of them I'm dead anyway

At least with a mason claim you can play the WIFOM game

[kuribo]

THATS WHY THE FUCKING "BALANCE" DIDNT MAKE SENSE

TOWN LOVERS ARE NEGATIVE FUCKING UTILITY

Since the roles are not alignment specific, per the public information available at the start of the thread, it seems possible that the role pairing could be 1 scum and 1 town on some days, 2 scum on other days, 2 town on other days? I've been jotting down some thoughts on how that could balance if it's indeed a lover situation.

Scum and the dead can get the roles assigned to them but they don't get the roles

The lover PT specifically says that whoever gets the roles gets to post there. So if the roles go to town, they get to see Romeo and Juliet's Pt, along with all the posts made by the previous holders of the role.

[kuribo]

Not only do I know from mechanics that ircher is town, I got Romeo today. I was Juliet on day one, meaning I got the role ircher had yesterday. Ircher is 100% confirmed town to me. Even beyond a mechanical level.

[kuribo]

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK ID GO TO BAT FOR SNAKE AND IRCHER OF ALL FUCKING PEOPLE

I SURE AS HELL WASNT ABOUT TO WATCH MYSELF DIE DAY ONE AS A LOVER TO A LURKSACK

u were in no danger though

Oh please I've been playing on this site long enough to know when town and scum are holding a lurker lim on day one

[kuribo]

Dumb question Kuribo. Did you actually have a PT?

Do you have one today?

Yes, BlueSnakelet/ircher and I discussed things for about a page and a half

During the night phase, after Feysal's flip but before the roles went out, my access to the PT was removed. It was then restored when role PMs went back out a few minutes later.

The PT itself does not tell me who if anyone is in there, but no one has posted in response to me today

[kuribo]

Not only do I know from mechanics that ircher is town, I got Romeo today. I was Juliet on day one, meaning I got the role ircher had yesterday. Ircher is 100% confirmed town to me. Even beyond a mechanical level.

How is ircher conf town to u just because he was a lover.
I feel like this is dumb from a mechanics standpoint and ur not dumb so explain how im the idiot

Scum get amnesiac role PMs

Scum do not get the actual roles.

Furthermore, I currently hold the exact role PM and role that ircher had on day one.

I know he is town because firstly he wouldn't have been in a PT with me, secondly I know for a fact he had that role because I have it.

[kuribo]

Yeah, other lover needs to just claim in the PT if you're out there

[kuribo]

Scum get amnesiac role PMs

Scum do not get the actual roles.

I literally don't understand this portion.
I am probably too stupid.

So basic summary is ur saying Ircher had a role pm that scum wouldn't or couldn't see. They would just get a lover role pm but wouldn't get a PT because scum don't get that portion.

Nope still not making sense. Need my expert Jingle to explain it to me.

Scum get real role pms but they're fake and don't grant the roles. Like, it says oh you're a cop, but you don't get cop powers. You just get to truthfully say you got a cop PM.

[kuribo]

Imagine X number of roles and X number of slots. Mix them all up and match them to one another.

Some of those slots are scum. Some are dead. Most are town.

Scum can't get roles from the amnesiac mechanic, so they get a worthless role PM. The dead can also have the roles assigned to them, but obviously can't do anything with it. The other roles go to town.

So say I'm Romeo, Juliet's role PM can be randomized to land on town, scum, or the dead. If the first, they get the role. If the latter two, they do not.

Edit: we don't know that they don't have power roles, we just know that they don't have amnesiac powers

[kuribo]

I'm not satisfied with a situation where the only two players who can vouch for the Mason/Lover stuff are kuribo and Ircher

Well you're scum so your opinion is useless

[kuribo]

I'm not satisfied with a situation where the only two players who can vouch for the Mason/Lover stuff are kuribo and Ircher

Well you're scum so your opinion is useless

VOTE: kuribo

OMGUS isn't gonna save you fucker

[kuribo]

I'm not satisfied with a situation where the only two players who can vouch for the Mason/Lover stuff are kuribo and Ircher

Well you're scum so your opinion is useless

VOTE: kuribo

OMGUS isn't gonna save you fucker

We'll never find out because I voted first

I was literally calling you scum and voting you at the end of yesterday


Delayed omgus is still omgus, scum

[kuribo]

I have a game somewhere in the depths of my memory where kuribo intentionally claimed Masons with a scumbuddy early on as a gambit

Like this exact play has precedent as a fakeclaim by kuribo

At least I think I'm remembering that right

You're absolutely remembering it wrong

Me and DGB counterclaimed masons as scum buddies in gay mafia at the end of the game, and they turned out to be vengeful lovers so they shot DGB


And that was eleven fucking years ago

[kuribo]

like his opening oh woah is me lim me just do it quickly. Is that what you do if you're a lover and you know someone else gets taken down with you?

Claiming mason under zero pressure on you or your lover when that makes scum more likely to shoot you and take out both you and your love pair?

Kuribo, what the fuck is this play if you're town?

To paraphrase a manchild, "I'm old, I'm tired, I'm sick, and I play mafia with fucking children."

Not to mention I was high outta my Fuckin mind on cough syrup

[kuribo]

I have a game somewhere in the depths of my memory where kuribo intentionally claimed Masons with a scumbuddy early on as a gambit

Like this exact play has precedent as a fakeclaim by kuribo

At least I think I'm remembering that right

You're absolutely remembering it wrong

Me and DGB counterclaimed masons as scum buddies in gay mafia at the end of the game, and they turned out to be vengeful lovers so they shot DGB


And that was eleven fucking years ago

Who in Team Mafia would actually know of the existence of that game? That's ancient even by my standards.

I mentioned it earlier in this game in passing in a post to TSQ, that's probably how Klick "remembered" it

[kuribo]

Ew god maybe he was playing on the epic game store

[kuribo]

I played a few games of rocket league and calmed down.

Kuribo if you lie a single other time in this game I will death tunnel you with the fire of 1000 suns. I will not care if you're town. I will not care if you're lovers with 5 other players. I will murder you into death and then I will find your corpse in real life and dance on your grave.

That's how fucking upset I am at you right now.

But my conclusion is that maybe you are real.

You know, that's fair and I'm 99% certain it's literally the only time I've ever lied as town

BUT not giving scum a twofer on night one was the right play and my team agreed so

[kuribo]

I'm on ps5 dumbass.

Ok you can be town again

[kuribo]

Guys, let's wagon Dunn versus Black and see what shakes out.

Why Dunnstral and why Black? It's not that I necessarily disagree, but I want context before I join a bandwagon.

Because they are two big scumreads I have right now and they both drew heavy attention yesterday. Yet, certain slots remained vote parked on Dragon which forced our hand.

Can you quote some of your posts where you explained why you scum read them? I haven't seen them, so this doesn't give me enough to work off.

I literally spent a good chunk of D1 interrogating Black and Dunn...

How could you AND kuribo miss that?

Where did you get the impression I missed that?

I made it pretty clear in my end of day post yesterday that I'm scum reading Black:

I'm already voting scum

Other scum reads are Black, one of DE/GiF but not both, one of Drixx/Dunn/Titus but not any combination of the three

Feysal townslipped extremely hard early on and keeps being town, Firebringer is town, and if TSQ is scum then we're all fucked anyway

I'm a dead man tonight so see y'all in a month for the TM postgames thread

[kuribo]

So Mala brought up something that I missed:

Kuribo claimed mason as a lover.

Titus

How'd you know?

Did ya get the other role PM and you can't post in the PT because you're not town? Because that's what Mala thinks. I thought maybe you were going to claim rolecop, but you've claimed not to have taken any action.

[kuribo]

Mafia get roles too, they just can't use them. Matching up doesn't confirm anybody, but actually using roles does. Maybe. Someone said mafia could have a mimic making that a dangerous assumption. This is why I was saying Firebringer could end up confirmed town depending on how role distribution worked out.


Kuribo, has anybody responded in your chat now that everybody has checked in? If not then the role could have gone to the dead/mafia. Or maybe there's more than 15 roles and it's out of the pool.

They have not

[kuribo]

Looks like House Flipper to me

[kuribo]

I wanna know what kuribo thinks about stuff.

I think that half-assing mass claim is never good. I'm from the old school of thought that mass claim, once decided, should be done directly with minimal distraction and conversation. Only once it's over should voting and discussion resume because getting sidetracked makes it easier for scum to waffle, sort out their fakeclaim, or just put it off in general.

I'm not quite sure I buy Titus' explanation for how she figured out that I was a lover and not a mason. My hangup with that is that I can't see any pro-scum reason for her to out that. On the other hand, I can't see any pro-town reason to out it either, so that's kind of a wash.

The crumb talk going on is just white noise to me since I've never been good at picking up crumbs either. I'm not exactly the most subtle player and I don't pick up on subtlety well.

I'm a liiiiiiittle concerned that I might be stuck in a tunnel or that I'm comfortably pocketed, because my main scumreads remain largely the same.

[kuribo]

I'm not exactly the most subtle player and I don't pick up on subtlety well.

which, by the way, is where the part of me that does buy Titus' explanation comes from

Like, I know I'm not subtle

[kuribo]

I don't think I can possibly decode whatever the fuck is going on between you and pink ball as either of you being conf town since I don't know what the fuck you're talking about and quite frankly I don't really think either of you do either?

Thank fucking god I thought I was the only one

[kuribo]

Ah, I get it now

See, subtly just doesn't work

[kuribo]

Ah, I get it now

See, subtly just doesn't work

Subtlety. Whatever.

[kuribo]

I have hard time believing that people would have hard time believing (hah) Kuribo/ircher being town almost immediately unless people have thing against lying as town

See: my vague memory of kuribo having done similar before
My admittedly old and outdated memory of kuribo as a player made me feel like it was entirely plausible as a play from kuribo!scum

I also have precedent for not immediately assuming what seems obvious, as you should be aware

The problem with meta and players that have been around for fifteen years is that you're hard pressed to find anything that they haven't done. Like, I've vigged my own scum buddy before. I've self-doc'd as scum and then no-killed in order to claim bulletproof. I've bussed my own buddy so hard that one of our buddies replaced out in disgust. I've voted in a consistent bloc with my entire team. And on the flip side of that, I've gotten so tilted as town doc that I blurted my claim out on day one. (Several times actually) I've tracked scum to a kill and let them talk me out of pushing them. I've gotten shitfaced drunk, attempted to 1v1 Majiffy for like thirty pages, then woke up the next morning hungover, covered in my own blood from a nosebleed and with "FUCK MAJIFFY" written on my hand in black sharpie. (I miss my homie Majiffy and I tried to get him to come back for team mafia)

My point is that if you go far enough back on any player, you can find something to fit. It's why I don't bother metadiving games I'm not in. Those games don't concern me.

[kuribo]

I am starting to hate this game. I don't feel like there's space for to scumhunt with all the mech talk and I suck at figuring out mech.

It's really fucking frustrating. I keep wanting to comment but I don't really feel like there's anything I can comment on.

I'm with you, mechanics talk just makes me zone out. Even back in the day I hated mechanical talk. There was always a subset of players back then who thought mafia was a game of mathematical probability and I always felt it was a game of psychology.

[kuribo]

I have hard time believing that people would have hard time believing (hah) Kuribo/ircher being town almost immediately unless people have thing against lying as town

See: my vague memory of kuribo having done similar before
My admittedly old and outdated memory of kuribo as a player made me feel like it was entirely plausible as a play from kuribo!scum

I also have precedent for not immediately assuming what seems obvious, as you should be aware

The problem with meta and players that have been around for fifteen years is that you're hard pressed to find anything that they haven't done. Like, I've vigged my own scum buddy before. I've self-doc'd as scum and then no-killed in order to claim bulletproof. I've bussed my own buddy so hard that one of our buddies replaced out in disgust. I've voted in a consistent bloc with my entire team. And on the flip side of that, I've gotten so tilted as town doc that I blurted my claim out on day one. (Several times actually) I've tracked scum to a kill and let them talk me out of pushing them. I've gotten shitfaced drunk, attempted to 1v1 Majiffy for like thirty pages, then woke up the next morning hungover, covered in my own blood from a nosebleed and with "FUCK MAJIFFY" written on my hand in black sharpie. (I miss my homie Majiffy and I tried to get him to come back for team mafia)

My point is that if you go far enough back on any player, you can find something to fit. It's why I don't bother metadiving games I'm not in. Those games don't concern me.

The takeaway I get from this is that you absolutely would consider fakeclaiming Masons with someone as scum in this game and I was right to consider it as a possibility.

I appreciate the perspective and I know there are risks involved with meta. I think most uses of meta wind up being pretty poor across the board. But I think trying to understand its uses and when it can actually be applied in situations and to what extent has a lot of value.

Well then you've taken the wrong lesson from the whole entire thing

[kuribo]

The site update made phone quoting really annoying because you can't highlight parts of a quote on mobile to isolate them

The little "quote" pop up doesn't appear on safari anyway

[kuribo]

I don't see why a theoretical scum!Klick chooses to repeatedly push a bunch of weak leads and then give up on them after getting predictably towny-looking content from each of them

what? You're saying that you are aware that this is what you frequently do as town, so like is the claim here that you don't try to replicate that in your scum game at all?

I don't really believe that?

At a minimum I would expect that you at least try to make your town games and scum games look similar, so I don't know how you could possibly not know what the theoretical benefit is?

Sure I try to make my town and scum games look similar? But I don't try to literally achieve the same goals as town and as scum

As town I am heavily motivated to try and get people to produce alignment-indicative content
As scum it's the opposite, I'm heavily disincentivised to actually get towny content out of town players

'repeatedly push a bunch of weak leads and then give up on them after getting predictably towny-looking content from each of them' also isn't really an apt description of my usual town play so it's not like the motivation is 'to play to my town meta'
I'd say this game is unusual in that there have been more reads that I've felt uncertain on than usual

No, it looks like you're looking for a safe wagon and then jumping ship when you realize it's very unsafe

[kuribo]

No, it looks like you're looking for a safe wagon and then jumping ship when you realize it's very unsafe

Scum who are seeking safe wagons often don't make a spectacle while doing so

At what point did I realise that the Frozen Angel wagon was very unsafe?
Or the Titus 'wagon?
Or the Dunnstral 'wagon'?

I'm talking about some of your other pushes, esp the one on me

And you can't really say "oh, scum don't usually do X" because we've been over this and over this: people do not always play optimally.

You could very well be scum having an off game.

[kuribo]

No, it looks like you're looking for a safe wagon and then jumping ship when you realize it's very unsafe

Scum who are seeking safe wagons often don't make a spectacle while doing so

At what point did I realise that the Frozen Angel wagon was very unsafe?
Or the Titus 'wagon?
Or the Dunnstral 'wagon'?

I'm talking about some of your other pushes, esp the one on me

And you can't really say "oh, scum don't usually do X" because we've been over this and over this: people do not always play optimally.

You could very well be scum having an off game.

to be fair I am sympathetic to the idea that klick maybe just wanted you to be scum because he was angry at you.

that's where I was at at the start of today.

I'm not just talking about today

[kuribo]

No, it looks like you're looking for a safe wagon and then jumping ship when you realize it's very unsafe

Scum who are seeking safe wagons often don't make a spectacle while doing so

At what point did I realise that the Frozen Angel wagon was very unsafe?
Or the Titus 'wagon?
Or the Dunnstral 'wagon'?

I'm talking about some of your other pushes, esp the one on me

And you can't really say "oh, scum don't usually do X" because we've been over this and over this: people do not always play optimally.

You could very well be scum having an off game.

There's a difference between 'suboptimal play' and 'play that isn't consistent with the motives you're prescribing it'

People do things of all alignments that aren't consistent with their actual motives. You wanted to understand why your perceived pattern of behavior gave people pause and I told you, at least in my case.

[kuribo]

Shea, you're right, this discussion about PB and Black makes me wanna yank my own teeth out of my face and swallow them

I am so not reading half that shit

[kuribo]

Like I'm not saying y'all have to stop

If you're finding it useful then you do you


But good god is it boring

[kuribo]

Shea, you're right, this discussion about PB and Black makes me wanna yank my own teeth out of my face and swallow them

I am so not reading half that shit

Tf? I think it's an important conservation to read but ok

Fine I guess I'll read it at some point

Literally just glazes my eyes over and makes my brain feel smooth the more I read it though

[kuribo]

Apparently my laptop can't load into a fucking League match

Guess I'm playing The Binding of Isaac?

If you fight War, take it easy on my boy

[kuribo]

Wait if we die with the roles, they stay in the rotation?

So even after I'm dead someone can get stuck having to read that lover PT?

This game just got way more fun, bbl I got a PT to fill with fanfic

[kuribo]

Imma dip now unless anyone has questions for me

Boxers or briefs?

Briefs. They can persuade without beating people.

#lawyerandsportsjoke

Depends.

#Eldercarejoke

[kuribo]

People voting me or with a stated suspicion of me:

Ircher
Black
Titus
Thestatusquo
Save The Dragons
Drixx
Kuribo
Pink Ball
GuyInFreezer

Only reason I'm not voting you is because I'm not ready for the day to end just in case I'm wrong and you get lolhammered

[kuribo]

lolhammered

Oh no we are not doing *that* again

[kuribo]

Why do you tr drixx

reaction to shea fake day vig.
which i think is funny because usually i think those are completely pointless

Fuckin thank you

And the victim always has to pretend it's real even when they're town because reacting otherwise is seen as scummy. Even though it's literally worked like, one time in the nearly twenty years this site has been around

[kuribo]

I prefer to just spam their inboxes with vague threats and / or promises in an attempt to get my role changed to dayvig for real

[kuribo]

yeah, I have my own opinion about the whole thing but it's not really productive to pass judgement on who's being a dick to who

and i mean

that's coming from ME of all people

I'm not directing that at you, Shea, what I'm saying is that there's no need for the rest of us to weigh in if you feel like this is a personal issue between you and STD

if that makes sense

[kuribo]

This is completely expected from FB, and I think NAI. I cannot recall a time where I saw FB trying to work mech advantage in a game. In fact, my brain says that FB, as town, has actively worked against me and Cerb when we were mechanically breaking a game. A couple times.

I feel like there's a difference between choosing not to do something pro-town and choosing not to mechanically break the game

I gotta re-read firebringer

[kuribo]

My thing is I can buy not understanding the setup and not wanting to get into the weeds mechanically

I don't know if I buy that FB has Alisae as a teammate and never once thinks to ask for clarification about setup stuff.

Nor do I buy that FB read his day one role and said "nope not gonna use that!" That's not even a matter of understanding mechanics. You never think to ask anyone on your team or the mod what your role does? No discussion about how to use your role?

Kinda feel like it's more likely FB just... couldn't use it.

[kuribo]

I gotta say it's not that weird if some of FB's teammates aren't caught up with this game

Like have you read this shit parade

But also I dare anyone to tell me that everyone on their team is keeping up 100% with four games . Maybe a couple of teams, but I really doubt that should be the expectation for every team.

That's just not how team mafia ends up, we all know that

[kuribo]

I believe FB about not understanding the mechanics completely. I didn't realize it either until BlueSnakelet mentioned it in our PT

I do feel that's a different issue from "lol not gonna use my role" it's anti-town at best and scum-motivated at worst.

[kuribo]

I guess something else I don't love is why is it always explicitly alisae? Not "my teams reads" and we haven't heard from Shirou or norwee at all.

they haven't read this game

Up until literally last night 90% of my team interaction on this game has been just Bella and that has been basically fine with us as a team
I can buy that FB and Alisae are the ones interested in this game right now

Why are people just completely misconstruing my argument repeatedly. It's really frustrating.


The important point is I think all of the alisae interaction feels fake and agenda driven.

I get what you're saying now, I promise I'm not glossing over it

[kuribo]

i think if anyone is actually reading me town for me bringing up alisae they are wrong and bad and should stop doing that. i am only giving alisae takes because alisae wants it announced and i do want to collaborate with alisae a bit since alisae really wants to play/win.

so i agree with shea in that no one should townread me for mentions or thoughts of alisae.
Thats now how u should be playing team mafia imo

That isn't the reason I was townreading you

I tend to townread certain types of players to a fault

[kuribo]

If there is one thing I can't stand in a mafia game its feeling like I don't have agency. I said DE felt like town and no one listened to me. I think Klick feels off and everyone just goes off in other random directions. I think this is a slip up from FB and everyone is just arguing against straw instead of actually listening.

Am I actually going to get a lim I want at some point this game or are we just going to keep limming slots I think are town until we lose?

Excuse me but I did listen to you about DE, you were literally the one that convinced me off of him

[kuribo]

If there is one thing I can't stand in a mafia game its feeling like I don't have agency. I said DE felt like town and no one listened to me. I think Klick feels off and everyone just goes off in other random directions. I think this is a slip up from FB and everyone is just arguing against straw instead of actually listening.

Am I actually going to get a lim I want at some point this game or are we just going to keep limming slots I think are town until we lose?

Excuse me but I did listen to you about DE, you were literally the one that convinced me off of him

I think it can be pretty reasonably assumed that I wasnt talking about you in that case then and rather the list of people who limmed him?

Counterpoint: everything is about me

[kuribo]

How is it possible that alisae only exists to give you reads to disagree with and not to discuss your night actions?

Did u miss me saying i briefly discussed with alisae the night action

That's worse, not better.

[kuribo]

If klick gets to E-1, I'll hammer that shit in a heartbeat


I was just saying the other day how much I miss giving hammer speeches

[kuribo]

If klick gets to E-1, I'll hammer that shit in a heartbeat


I was just saying the other day how much I miss giving hammer speeches

Please don't.

Begging just makes it sweeter for me scum

[kuribo]

If klick gets to E-1, I'll hammer that shit in a heartbeat


I was just saying the other day how much I miss giving hammer speeches

Please don't.

Begging just makes it sweeter for me scum

I love being scumread for not looking like the kind of town you've decided should exist instead of the town that does exist

That's a pretty glib interpretation of my scum read of you

[kuribo]

i guess the disconnect for me is you're painting her as some mastermind for shepherding votes onto you

and i feel in my personal experience titus is about 0% the reason i'm sring you

This but for me

[kuribo]

Klick's reaction today is "But it's all Titus," and then to me it was "oh I don't play how you think town people should play."

It's like when you're caught and you're not sure what got you caught

[kuribo]

Something I see from Alisae often is the Cowbells thing of 'chaos is good for town, order is good for wolves'
I don't entirely agree with this logic but I do think order is good for the people who are already benefitting from the status quo
And I think Titus is good at establishing order through her posting when it benefits her

Chaos and order are both null and situational. Chaos can be used to throw a scumread off balance. Order can cut through crap posted by likable people.

This type of post is just shading people who are methodical. Order is bad might as well scream logic would catch his team.

I mean hell, a big part of my circa 2012 scumgame was the "carnival of lunacy" style of calculated chaos

Like, go read one of Serene (Me/DGB/FakeGod)'s scum games and tell me that chaos was good for the town

or hell read one of our town games lol

[kuribo]

Firebringer scum reading me when I scum read me is cute but I kinda think its what town him would do.

The real question is is he self aware enough to know that and duplicate it.

Probably, I guess.

This wagon talk is exactly why I'm extremely dubious of VCA as a general rule. Klick's analysis is predicated on him being town which I think is a pretty dubious assumption.

I dislike VCA in general just because 1- I've watched Titus' VCA "catch" me as scum at least once when I was town, ane 2- when I've been scum I've actively manipulated vote counts anyway

[kuribo]

I think the scum team didn't have to play around the dragoneater wagon and they could have done literally whatever they wanted.

Is this not what Klick was saying?

No, Klick seems to be saying that scum was on the other wagons and then decided to abstain from the DE wagon, which just happens to line up nicely with the people pushing him now

[kuribo]

Lining up nicely is me being facetious btw, I'm referring to the confirmation bias

[kuribo]

Firebringer scum reading me when I scum read me is cute but I kinda think its what town him would do.

The real question is is he self aware enough to know that and duplicate it.

Probably, I guess.

This wagon talk is exactly why I'm extremely dubious of VCA as a general rule. Klick's analysis is predicated on him being town which I think is a pretty dubious assumption.

I dislike VCA in general just because 1- I've watched Titus' VCA "catch" me as scum at least once when I was town, ane 2- when I've been scum I've actively manipulated vote counts anyway

Unfortunately there aren’t 15 Kuribos in the game. Although ngl that would be something to watch. Kuribo now, Kuribo 1 year ago, and all the up to Kuribo 14 years ago.

I'd fucking hate that and at least twelve of us would end up ragequitting

[kuribo]

Firebringer scum reading me when I scum read me is cute but I kinda think its what town him would do.

The real question is is he self aware enough to know that and duplicate it.

Probably, I guess.

This wagon talk is exactly why I'm extremely dubious of VCA as a general rule. Klick's analysis is predicated on him being town which I think is a pretty dubious assumption.

I dislike VCA in general just because 1- I've watched Titus' VCA "catch" me as scum at least once when I was town, ane 2- when I've been scum I've actively manipulated vote counts anyway

Unfortunately there aren’t 15 Kuribos in the game. Although ngl that would be something to watch. Kuribo now, Kuribo 1 year ago, and all the up to Kuribo 14 years ago.

I'd fucking hate that and at least twelve of us would end up ragequitting

which ones would stay though.

Kuribo circa 2007 - 2009 were pretty chill and had a policy of never replacing out. Kuribo 2010 and 2022 didn't play at all. Present day Kuribo would probably stay. 2011-2015 are the maniacs, 2015-2021 are firmly in the ragequitting almost immediately group.

[kuribo]

The ones that rolled scum of course

I haven't been scum in so long I can't imagine I'd enjoy it anymore than I enjoy being town lol

[kuribo]

I'm counting the bodies to show scum have no way out. We just link to each other.

They run out of good kills to make as every kill confirms someone as town.

Aka how I lost as scum in team mafia 2020:

By the end I was last scum standing with like five people mechanically cleared to one another

[kuribo]

i am iffy on the idea of breaking the game with mech considering me and my team just bamboozled the mech so hard in demon slayer that town couldn't think straight with the mech allowing us to get a victory. Also i find arguments of playing just to the mech rather than reads to be....defeating the purpose of 90% of the game. Id rather use it as a fallback if i really can't find scum in how people are positioning.

Like i think theres a few mech exploits scum can do with these "links" to either rule themselves out or obfuscates the clears.

Counterpoint: the first team mafia game I was in (whichever one I was teamed with amrun and chesskid) I ended up in the large theme which was a variation of powerful wizard

Powerful wizard being a concept invented by SpyreX who happened to be in the game. Despite not knowing the exact setup (obviously), he managed to completely mechanically break it for town.

[kuribo]

Hypothetical scum power: scum have access to one-time uses of each role card, or certain role cards, or can remember roles that they have been given in the past

Remembering roles they've been given in the past is literally just human memory

[kuribo]

i am iffy on the idea of breaking the game with mech considering me and my team just bamboozled the mech so hard in demon slayer that town couldn't think straight with the mech allowing us to get a victory. Also i find arguments of playing just to the mech rather than reads to be....defeating the purpose of 90% of the game. Id rather use it as a fallback if i really can't find scum in how people are positioning.

Like i think theres a few mech exploits scum can do with these "links" to either rule themselves out or obfuscates the clears.

Counterpoint: the first team mafia game I was in (whichever one I was teamed with amrun and chesskid) I ended up in the large theme which was a variation of powerful wizard

Powerful wizard being a concept invented by SpyreX who happened to be in the game. Despite not knowing the exact setup (obviously), he managed to completely mechanically break it for town.

At which point hopefully in 2023 mods have learned not to create mechanically broken setups

Lmao

[kuribo]

But flavor is quite literally the only thing scum gets from the random draft

[kuribo]

Like having their own abilities, yes, and it's safe to assume they're not vanilla goons

But they do still get the flavor from the amnesiac roles that they draw

[kuribo]

There's no chance you're town and make that post

I dunno I feel the same way about this post

[kuribo]

Ah geez that was supposed to link to your entire iso now my joke is ruined


Off too my shame hole

[kuribo]

EBWOP: to

[kuribo]

There's no chance you're town and make that post

I dunno I feel the same way about this post

I feel like every post you make towards me is a cheap shot and I think you're town and I'd really appreciate it if you could stop.

You're so lucky I'm trying to shift my meta to being less toxic to my scum reads

My whole deal toward you is like a one on the scale

I read you as scum. You calling that "cheap shots" is just you trying to neutralize that because you know deep down you don't want me on your back.

You asking me to stop reading you as scum isn't going to happen because you fucked that up when you drew a scum role PM.

You want me to back off? Then quit flailing and give me your god damn blood. Only the purity of the flame can absolve you.

[kuribo]

At least it isnt cummy.

Kuribo can you help me puzzle out titus here.

Are you buying what she's selling? Take Klick out of the equation for a second.

I've been back and forth in my head on Titus, ranging from possibly town to extremely scummy

I like your line of questioning regarding her attempts at a mechanical solve, and I'm not quite pacified by her responses. Further I still don't completely buy her explanation about the question that Mala had for her.

Mechanical discussions are my antivenin. That said, part of me thinks Titus does believe her attempts at mechanically clearing. I think there's a lot she overlooked, but I don't think it's why she's scummy. There are other reasons to feel she's scummy. (Spoiler alert: none of it involves Klick's dogshit about trying to steer the town or whatever it was)

[kuribo]

There's no chance you're town and make that post

I dunno I feel the same way about this post

I feel like every post you make towards me is a cheap shot and I think you're town and I'd really appreciate it if you could stop.

You're so lucky I'm trying to shift my meta to being less toxic to my scum reads

My whole deal toward you is like a one on the scale

I read you as scum. You calling that "cheap shots" is just you trying to neutralize that because you know deep down you don't want me on your back.

You asking me to stop reading you as scum isn't going to happen because you fucked that up when you drew a scum role PM.

You want me to back off? Then quit flailing and give me your god damn blood. Only the purity of the flame can absolve you.

You're wrong, you have a poor read on me based on me not looking how you want town to look instead of how town actually looks, and you can either get your head out of your ass or take one step closer to losing this game.

This argument isn't helping and it's the second time you've made it.

And it actually pisses me off because it's condescending as fuck so I'm telling you knock it off.

[kuribo]

I'll win this fucking game standing on your scummy corpse WITH my head FIRMLY in my fucking ass

[kuribo]

Kuribo, can you just vote Klick? I'm on an RL clock and I'd like to see this game through.

I want the fucking hammer

[kuribo]

This argument isn't helping and it's the second time you've made it.

And it actually pisses me off because it's condescending as fuck so I'm telling you knock it off.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Don't be condescending as fuck to me if you don't want it returned.

Says the scum

[kuribo]

pLaY sTuPiD gAmES

Buddy you already rolled that dice when you got my attention

Your prize is a one fucking way ticket to hell

[kuribo]

VOTE:

pLaY sTuPiD gAmES

Buddy you already rolled that dice when you got my attention

Your prize is a one fucking way ticket to hell

If it means not having to deal with town players intentionally pissing me off then I'll take it

Better than my position where scum players are intentionally pissing me off

[kuribo]

Where the fuck did that vote tag come from

[kuribo]

Accidentally vote your buddy did you

[kuribo]

Alright lemme go finish putting these patients in bed

[kuribo]

Alisae wants everyone to explain their klick scumread

Also 4273 is very townie post

Can't speak for others but for me it's mostly stubbornness

[kuribo]

Hmmm I actually like klick's responses to me the last couple pages the more I think about them

I mean, they annoy me but I mean like then from a game perspective

Ok new plan, it's time to shake up my reads, I'm gonna go home, sleep like three hours, go back to work for another 16 hour shift, hopefully nobody spits in my face again, then once my brain is nice and smooth like a chicken breast I'll be better able to sort this game State

[kuribo]

I think that making "hollow" posts as scum (or town) is largely a play style issue

[kuribo]

Might just start doing dissociatives until the shadow ghosts convince me it's like, STD, FA, and Pink Ball or something

[kuribo]

I'm kidding I don't do drugs

[kuribo]

Also bold claim from someone who spent a significant part of day 1 tripping balls.

I mean that's different, that was for medical use

[kuribo]

HOW?

If either flips, gg.

If too many town link, we can link pools together. Scum get forced arguments.

Every scum kill confirms another player as town.

For instance, if Kuribo ever dies, Ircher is conftown.

If PB does, Black is likely conftown.

They then must kill the linked players.

Why does kuribo have to die first for me to be confirmed town? I find this wording to be a bit weird.

Hush you don't you dare deny me the sweet release of death

[kuribo]

So my problem is that the more I read Klick, the more I feel like I want to town read the intent but a lot of the posts just don't sit right with me. Might be still my tunnel trying to break though.

My problem with Titus is that I don't see the breaking strategy itself as scummy. I do think that it's possible that in her exuberance to try and break the setup that she overlooked key parts. I went back over her breaking strategy and honestly I can't make heads or tails of how it was supposed to confirm or "link" so many people. I do think she sees now why her plan was flawed.

My main problem with Titus though isn't the strategy itself, it's that there are other little nagging things here and there that give me pause in a major way. Maybe even more than Klick.

I talked on day one about my "super secret scumread" and I can now tell you that it was Titus. Unless I have already mentioned it, fucked if I know. But I DID mention it in the lover PT on day one which ircher can confirm (assuming he remembers lol)

My other problem with Titus is that I kinda want her to be scum just because if she's town then I really have to re-evaluate both TSQ and then Klick YET AGAIN and I swear to fucking god if you two are scum and dont kill me tonight I'm gonna be really upset about having to re-evaluate a HUNDRED AND SEVENTY fucking pages. Please let me die. You both fucking owe me.

But I don't think TSQ is scum so that's kind of a moot point.

[kuribo]

Ideally Black would say 1 name.

Agreed, but I'm not gonna argue with her, not worth it. Made a beautiful post after 2 days of a back and forth with Jingle and the answer to it is "sorry, I don't want to" lol

Frustration felt. I'm half giving up. If I can't lead a horse to drink when alive, what makes me think they will when I am dead.

@Ircher, Then I don't get it.

It's the way you're 100% confident we'll flip town but at the same time, it seems like you aren't actually confident that we are both town in the present. Whereas with Pink Ball/Black, you explicitly state "likely" indicating you acknowledge the other possibility however remote it may be.

? I don't get this.

You and Kuribo are mech aligned and 99999.999% town.

PB and Black might have thereotical doubt on alignments.

High Titus says hello.

If ircher murks you and you flip town, who do you want my ancestors to haunt?

If he murks you and you flip scum can you please have your buddies kill me