Kemusan - Game Over

[Bell]

For me the spiffeh thing has less to do with how i think he'd behave as scum, and more to do with some of his recent posting, namely:

- kinda don't understand his gypyx trajectory, or how he became that confident in town-her
- cabd declaring them a high confidence tvt pair made me go ... huh?
- ffery townread almost feels white-knight-y
-

Gypyx's carefree posting here contradicts how I expect her to behave as scum in this playerlist based entirely on my one time playing with her as her scumbuddy in Tenet. Yes I recognize it's a very low sample size, but in Tenet my recollection is that she was scared to even post as scum and needed someone from our team (Cabd, LLD, etc.) to review and edit her posts. Her initial posts in this game struck me as town because they seemed genuine and worry-free, which isn't something I've seen from her before.

I'd also expect her to try to get on Cabd's good side ASAP, not scum read him from jump

(unless she and Cabd were scum together, I guess)

and risk drawing Cabd's focus immediately, someone who has had an intimate look at her scum game previously.

I have a couple of other comments regarding Gypyx, but I'm not looking to reveal these at this point.

As for ffery, she's just hit all the notes I expect her to hit as town. I feel we've shared a lot of similar reads/noticed the same things and given she is someone I work well with, that was encouraging to me. I don't think she has much reason to begin vocally suspecting me as scum when I am one of the few actively town reading her.

[Spiffeh]

With that said, I'll try to re-scan the game again, but for all this time Bell was pretty much my locktown read, and I honestly don't see myself changing that. That reaction test was my last spec of doubt I had on him, and he passed it with flying color.

Can you elaborate a bit on how Bell passed the test, and what behavior you’d expect from scum!Bell vs. town!Bell in that situation?

[Spiffeh]

Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag-time boy
Send me a kiss my sire, setting my heart on fire
If you refuse me you’re gonna lose me then you’ll be left alone oh baby
Dance with me and tell me I’m your own

HST posted this in our discord. Before the game. Which is why I knew who it was.
That or it was an awful coincidence.

Hmmmmmm if HST is who I think he is based on this, I definitely think he’s scum

But I’m not in the business of outing alts and I’m not 100% confident in his true identity so I will ignore this!

[Spiffeh]

I'm going to try to be less verbose about Gypyx than STD because I feel like I've devoted a lot of words to her already but still wanna make this post to compile all of my thoughts.

Reasons to townread Gypyx:
1. The bottom line for me is the vast difference between Gypyx's game here and her completed scum games. I read through the ones she provided in the thread and as scum she just does not seem to be capable of the level of detail and coherent thought that she's provided here. Sure, there's the caveat that Cabd and LLD coached her, and I felt she had a weaker second half of the pairing phase overall (I buy her explanation for that, though), but for the most part she has remained consistent even after all her potential coaching scum buddies have kicked the bucket.

Like she's been able to hold her own (imo) in several back-and-forths with Bell, and I don't know if scum!Gypyx has what it takes to not clam up during extended engagements like those.

2. I really like the early Cabd suspicion in her ISO. Not only does it ring true, but this was before Cabd leaving with ffery before intermission was even a thought so I don't see why scum!Gypyx would immediately cast doubt on her scumbuddy Cabd at this point. Again, this isn't something I feel scum!Gypyx could really pull off in sounding natural but everything checks out.

3. Not really a separate point but there's just several times throughout Gypyx's ISO where I said out loud "she's just Town" and that never really occurred with HST.

4. I find her behavior during Intermission to be a little counterproductive and unaligned with what I'd expect from the designated deep scum. She really didn't do anything to reassure me at a time where I was vocally questioning her in the thread. I'd imagine her scum buddies would have signaled to her to make me feel a lot better in the neighborhood given their win condition literally relies on me not getting spooked enough to leave at any point for the rest of the game.

5. I want to keep this super minor because it's WIFOMY and scum!Cabd with a plan is manipulative as fuck, but in my heart of hearts I doubt Cabd would town case designated deep scum Gypyx when he knows he's flipping scum. It felt more like scum!Cabd needed something to be passionate about to keep up appearances than some long con to reverse WIFOM us into locking Gypyx as a townread or something.

Reasons to scum read Gypyx:
1. The root of my paranoia is both Cabd and LLD flipping scum. Like I mentioned earlier in this game, Cabd and LLD were the two most responsible for the scum coaching Gypyx received in Tenet, and if there is one game where scum!Gypyx could really step it up and feel confident it's one with Cabd and LLD by her side.

2. Her level of effort tanking in the Pairing phase pretty much coincided with her accepting my invitation to dance. I was worried that she high-efforted early on to lock in a dance partner and couldn't maintain that facade now that her purpose for doing so was complete. Again, she's stated the reason for the drop in her activity level at this time, the timing is just super convenient.

3. She says early on that she wants to be in a neighborhood with someone who talks a lot, but her behavior in the neighborhood would not suggest this at all. I was a little surprised that someone who seemed so excited to pair up with me and chat in the neighborhood was such a non-entity.

4. Want to make this minor because I do not have a wealth of town!Gypyx meta, but the one town game she did link to in this thread she had like 800 fucking posts in, and while I think this game is particular far cry from a lot of the Gypyx scum games I've looked into, this game is also NO WHERE near the level of engagement and effort presented in the one town game I looked at from Gypyx. This game kinda straddles the line between the two, which worries me a bit because Cabd and LLD coaching her could be making up the difference here. But this is gross meta WIFOM bullshit and probably shouldn't be considered too heavily.

So much for being less verbose, lol

[Gypyx]

so yeah, just quickly about point 4. on scum!me, i do have 800 posts, and like 700 of them were done during ELo, i just kinda had a huge rise of emotion and engagement that hasn't happened here

this one is a more realistic example viewtopic.php?t=92131

[Gypyx]

although i also got mad at the end lol, different reasons tho

[Spiffeh]

Damn RCE was super obvtown this phase, he really should not have left when he did lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VoteCount 2.07

Spiffeh - Gypyx [0] -
Bell - HolySpiritTurtle [0] -

Not Voting [4]

- Spiffeh, Gypyx, Bell, HolySpiritTurtle

With 4 alive it takes 3 votes to execute

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2024-02-23 15:11:00)

mod note

Votes are reset after every elimination

[Spiffeh]

Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag-time boy
Send me a kiss my sire, setting my heart on fire
If you refuse me you’re gonna lose me then you’ll be left alone oh baby
Dance with me and tell me I’m your own

HST posted this in our discord. Before the game. Which is why I knew who it was.
That or it was an awful coincidence.

Hmmmmmm if HST is who I think he is based on this, I definitely think he’s scum

But I’m not in the business of outing alts and I’m not 100% confident in his true identity so I will ignore this!

As much as I should not be relying on being correct about HST’s alt, if he’s who I think he is that gives scum!Cabd even MORE incentive to blow up on ffery when she is vocally and confidently townreading HST, not giving her an opportunity to reevaluate

And things start to make sense…

[Bell]

Eh, the longer the day goes on for Gypyx the worse their position as scum would get too.

[Bell]

When gyphx was asking what was going on when enchant peaced out, did it seem fake to you Spiffeh?

[Spiffeh]

When did she ask that?

[Bell]

1. i say i plan on dropping thoughts here cause i didn't feel so at easy in the thread at the time of intermission starting
2. i say i'm sussing RH9 / skitter / RCE / STD and townreading fireis / HST / enchant
3. Spiffeh asks me to elaborate on the skitt pair

4./5. i'm surprised and confused night is so soon

6. Spiffeh claims he was townreading enchant, bummed out about his flip
7. I say it's cool and maybe scum just wants to kill someone directly
8. I elaborate that STD was basically switching between posting styles for no apparent reason and that skitter is mostly a gut read, but also that i'm big wrong already so let's maybe be cautious, also thinking we could've died today or LLD / fire (gotta remember idk why i thought that)
9. announcing i'm taking a break from mafia

the sleepiness is coming, more coming later

[Spiffeh]

It seems natural to me. First Dance ended almost immediately and I don’t think she realized that at first

Nothing alignment indicative there imo

[Gypyx]

Spiffeh, do you think you are out of / still in your scumrange? Explain why also

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh, do you think you are out of / still in your scumrange? Explain why also

This may be a better question to ask Bell

But yes I feel my play this game has been outside of my scum range. This is my first game back in like two years and I would have been miserable had I rolled scum.

I think a lot of the wall posts I've made this game aren't something I could have replicated easily as scum with my current attitude towards mafia.

[Gypyx]

i mean, the only slot i'm really focused about sorting is you right now, if you feel like it's a relevant question feel free to ask Bell tho

[Spiffeh]

Just a warning that my activity the rest of the game may be dialed back a bit as I have a lot of things crashing at the same time this week.

My current desire is to have Bell leave the dance to remove HST from the game, who I am hoping is the final scum. If this were a normal game Day I would be voting HST (and Bell) currently, but I want to respect Bell's process and give HST an opportunity to change my mind I guess? Just not sure how realistic that is at this point.

I still plan to be around to read, answer questions, and offer my thoughts on anything new, but at this point I'm pretty satisfied with HST as the final scum based on my ISO dives.

Feel free to convince me why I'm wrong.

[Spiffeh]

i mean, the only slot i'm really focused about sorting is you right now, if you feel like it's a relevant question feel free to ask Bell tho

I meant you may want to ask Bell if this is outside of my scum range, as he has pretty extensive experience playing with scum!me

[Gypyx]

i mean, the only slot i'm really focused about sorting is you right now, if you feel like it's a relevant question feel free to ask Bell tho

I meant you may want to ask Bell if this is outside of my scum range, as he has pretty extensive experience playing with scum!me

oh yeah

@bell?

[HolySpiritTurtle]

I am not having fun today with vomiting and all that. I wish the deadline was longer but it’s probably not happening. Less than 2 days left and I’m not really in a shape to do much, and I have 0 guarantee that I will magically feel better after not recovering for 2 days, so I’ll keep this short. Y’all can do whatever y’all want after this post. This is probably the best thing I can muster at my current state.

What I was looking for re: reaction test against Bell, I already explained exactly what I was looking for.

As I said before, I townread all of y’all coming to this endgame so I probably won’t do very good job any convincing, so I am going to rely on self-defense. Everyone seems to be in agreement that Bell is town so I won’t have to worry about that front.

Had I been scum this game, that means I made this game much much more difficult for myself for no reason by:

1. Force myself to townread all of my scumbuddies

2. Needlessly efforted to make RH9 case and nightkill him when I could’ve just killed Spiffeh/Gypyx and mislim RH9, which is much more easier alternative

3. Fake a longpost slip that nobody is going to ever read

4. Trying to lock y’all as the endgame pair with reaction test. You could argue that it was an attempt at towncred while not doing much but literally nobody but STD would’ve known that they were going to leave like that.

I absolutely hate defending myself, because you can just laugh at self-defense and call them lolwifom, but this is literally all I got.

[Spiffeh]

I hope you feel better

I’d prefer if you could tell me who the remaining scum is if it isn’t you and why.

[HolySpiritTurtle]

If I have to take a guess it’s probably Gypyx for the pure reason that I townread her the least back then. But that is all I got. If y’all end up limming me, then sorry in advance for basically throwing in elo, but I’m already throwing my bowel out.

[Spiffeh]

And I am really sorry if I'm wrong here, but like I said earlier the way this game has played out has made it very difficult to get solid reads on people. Every phase we were able to vote for people and maybe build a wagon or momentum to generate reads was snatched from us by calculated scum or too-eager-to-leave town and we are now paying the price.

This setup kinda blows because of that LOL

Or I guess scum have successfully capitalized on limiting the information we have at this juncture and it's tremendously frustrating.

But yeah, I tried, good luck, etc.

[Spiffeh]

And again, I am still open to reevaluate if anyone has some sort of smoking gun on Gypyz or something

I welcome it all!