Nomic: Wiki Edition --- Finished (More or Less)

[lendunistus]

alright so here’s a draft for an initial dungeon system I came up with

1. A new currency will be created called Battle Tokens (or Yen or Rupees or whatever, name recommendations welcome). This currency will be awarded when performing certain activities while exploring dungeons. Battle Tokens may be used to buy items and equipment from the Nomic Shop for use in the dungeon, heal your character or perform other miscellaneous activities.

2. For a set period of time referred to as a Dungeon Period, a dungeon is available. Each dungeon has a set amount of floors. Every player has to start exploring the dungeon at Floor 1 and may progress through floors to reach the top floor, where a boss resides. The first player (we could also change this to every player if we want to be more inclusive towards people who may not have a lot of time to play) to reach the top floor and defeat the boss will obtain an item or a piece of equipment called a

Completion Reward

(once again, name suggestions welcome). After a set amount of IRL time or dungeon phases/turns, the Dungeon Period ends. When a Dungeon Period ends, the dungeon disappears, all players are set back to Level 1, all of their equipment and items (except Battle Tokens and Completion Rewards) are removed from their inventory and a new dungeon appears.

3. One player or a group of players must be elected as a Dungeon Keeper. A Dungeon Keeper oversees all dungeon-related activites and must keep an up-to-date status page on the Wiki of all dungeon-related information and player statuses. A Dungeon Keeper cannot participate in dungeon-related activities as a player but instead earns a salary every time once a certain amount of time has passed that consists of a set amount of Battle Tokens. All motions to add dungeon-related items and equipment to the Shop require a Yea or Abstain vote from a Dungeon Keeper in order to have the ability to pass. A Dungeon Keeper may be removed from their position by a passed proposal.

4. Every player has a set amount of Health and Mana, the ability to use equipment and dungeon-related items, a set of Skills and a set amount of Experience points. When a player’s Health is 0 or below, the player will lose all dungeon-related items and equipment they may have (except Completion rewards) and half of their Battle Tokens (rounded up) and 500 Life will be deducted from their current total.

5. Dungeon floors may contain a set amount of enemy encounters, special mechanics, chests that may contain items, equipment and/or Battle Tokens and a mixture of all 3 of these things. Once all conditions for completing a floor are met, the player may proceed to the next floor.

6. All players start at Level 1. To level up, the player must reach a certain amount of experience points. The amount of experience points required is a consecutive power of 2 for each respective level (for example, 4 XP for level 2, 8 XP for level 3, so on). Levelling up will enhance the player in certain ways, like stat ormaximum Health/Mana increases and/or new skills.
(power of 3 may be better if people like higher numbers. we probably also don’t want to make this too grindy)

7. At the start of each new Dungeon Phase, a Dungeon Keeper must submit a proposal for a new Dungeon Phase. The proposal must include the following:
1) A name for the dungeon
2) The amount of time the Dungeon Phase will last in in-game phases/turns or IRL time
3) The amount of floors the new dungeon will have
4) A through description of what each floor will contain
5) A list of enemies, their names, stats, Health/Mana and skills
6) A description of the dungeon’s boss, including their name, stats, Health/Mana and skills
7) A description of the players’ initial stats and Health/Mana and a list of rewards each Level will give

[lendunistus]

i’m tired so I won’t write up a battle system right now but this is what I had in mind in regards to the structure

[Jake The Wolfie]

Sorry, I was offline for quite a bit.

I'm currently prototyping an "Improved Clone" of Underhand (A card game on the Google Play Store, not sure about iOS), so there's that

[Ircher]

Ooh that sounds fun. What do you think of the dungeon crawling plan?

[Ircher]

alright so here’s a draft for an initial dungeon system I came up with

1. A new currency will be created called Battle Tokens (or Yen or Rupees or whatever, name recommendations welcome). This currency will be awarded when performing certain activities while exploring dungeons. Battle Tokens may be used to buy items and equipment from the Nomic Shop for use in the dungeon, heal your character or perform other miscellaneous activities.

Is there a particular reason we cannot just use Nomic Dollars?

2. For a set period of time referred to as a Dungeon Period, a dungeon is available. Each dungeon has a set amount of floors. Every player has to start exploring the dungeon at Floor 1 and may progress through floors to reach the top floor, where a boss resides. The first player (we could also change this to every player if we want to be more inclusive towards people who may not have a lot of time to play) to reach the top floor and defeat the boss will obtain an item or a piece of equipment called a

Completion Reward

(once again, name suggestions welcome). After a set amount of IRL time or dungeon phases/turns, the Dungeon Period ends. When a Dungeon Period ends, the dungeon disappears, all players are set back to Level 1, all of their equipment and items (except Battle Tokens and Completion Rewards) are removed from their inventory and a new dungeon appears.

Why does everyone reset to Level 1? Is this a balancing thing? I think it would be cooler if that weren't the case, but I guess I would have to see an actual implementation.

3. One player or a group of players must be elected as a Dungeon Keeper. A Dungeon Keeper oversees all dungeon-related activites and must keep an up-to-date status page on the Wiki of all dungeon-related information and player statuses. A Dungeon Keeper cannot participate in dungeon-related activities as a player but instead earns a salary every time once a certain amount of time has passed that consists of a set amount of Battle Tokens. All motions to add dungeon-related items and equipment to the Shop require a Yea or Abstain vote from a Dungeon Keeper in order to have the ability to pass. A Dungeon Keeper may be removed from their position by a passed proposal.

It should just be a motion and not a proposal to remove a dungeon keeper.

4. Every player has a set amount of Health and Mana, the ability to use equipment and dungeon-related items, a set of Skills and a set amount of Experience points. When a player’s Health is 0 or below, the player will lose all dungeon-related items and equipment they may have (except Completion rewards) and half of their Battle Tokens (rounded up) and 500 Life will be deducted from their current total.

We already have a mana system of sorts; I think we should expand on that instead of making a new one.

5. Dungeon floors may contain a set amount of enemy encounters, special mechanics, chests that may contain items, equipment and/or Battle Tokens and a mixture of all 3 of these things. Once all conditions for completing a floor are met, the player may proceed to the next floor.

6. All players start at Level 1. To level up, the player must reach a certain amount of experience points. The amount of experience points required is a consecutive power of 2 for each respective level (for example, 4 XP for level 2, 8 XP for level 3, so on). Levelling up will enhance the player in certain ways, like stat ormaximum Health/Mana increases and/or new skills.
(power of 3 may be better if people like higher numbers. we probably also don’t want to make this too grindy)

How about quadratic growth with some constant factor? Something like 3 XP for level 2, 12 XP for level 3, 27 XP for level 4, 48 XP for level 5, ..., 3 * n * n XP for level n?

7. At the start of each new Dungeon Phase, a Dungeon Keeper must submit a proposal for a new Dungeon Phase. The proposal must include the following:
1) A name for the dungeon
2) The amount of time the Dungeon Phase will last in in-game phases/turns or IRL time
3) The amount of floors the new dungeon will have
4) A through description of what each floor will contain
5) A list of enemies, their names, stats, Health/Mana and skills
6) A description of the dungeon’s boss, including their name, stats, Health/Mana and skills
7) A description of the players’ initial stats and Health/Mana and a list of rewards each Level will give

[Jake The Wolfie]

7. At the start of each new Dungeon Phase, a Dungeon Keeper must submit a proposal for a new Dungeon Phase. The proposal must include the following:
1) A name for the dungeon
2) The amount of time the Dungeon Phase will last in in-game phases/turns or IRL time
3) The amount of floors the new dungeon will have
4) A through description of what each floor will contain
5) A list of enemies, their names, stats, Health/Mana and skills
6) A description of the dungeon’s boss, including their name, stats, Health/Mana and skills
7) A description of the players’ initial stats and Health/Mana and a list of rewards each Level will give

This feels a little meh. The main focus of a dungeon is that it's unknown. This is more like venturing into a Walmart than an Ikea

[Ircher]

I think a fix to that is the dungeon keeper designs the dungeon in secret. They should be required though to document it somewhere like a PT for fairness sake.

Question of the Day #18
Category: Government
Question: Who was the chief justice of the United States of America Supreme Court during the landmark case Marbury vs. Madison?

The correct answer is

John Marshall

.

Question of the Day #19

Category: History
Question: Which Englishman is credited as one of the two main founders of calculus?
---
In other news, proposal 351 expired.

[lendunistus]

alright so here’s a draft for an initial dungeon system I came up with

1. A new currency will be created called Battle Tokens (or Yen or Rupees or whatever, name recommendations welcome). This currency will be awarded when performing certain activities while exploring dungeons. Battle Tokens may be used to buy items and equipment from the Nomic Shop for use in the dungeon, heal your character or perform other miscellaneous activities.

Is there a particular reason we cannot just use Nomic Dollars?

anyone with a high amount of Nomic Dollars can just buy the best equipment right away, plus I’d like to avoid inflating the economy with a large amount of nomic dollars being given out from the dungeon. I’m aware the first point is also a problem with battle tokens being kept after a Dungeon Period ends but that can be fixed in a multitude of ways, like not letting players purchase high power items from the shop until they get to a certain floor/level, increasing item prices or dungeon rewards every time a period ends (although I don’t think this is a good idea since it just serves to increase inflation) or mostly tying damage and spells to levelling, not equipment/items.
also, how the hell do you allow distribution of Nomic Dollars via a dungeon? this is a currency that’s in place via its own law as opposed to being created by one specific entity. do you amend the Nomic Dollar law to allow distribution through specific activites in the dungeon? do you let the Dungeon Keeper give out Nomic Dollars at their own discretion via battles, chests and other dungeon stuff? at that point, how is that different or better than just having a separate currency?
if you want the dungeon system to interact with Nomic Dollars, why not just set up an exchange rate? Nomic Dollars would require way too much legal mumbo jumbo imo for them to be given out via a dungeon unless you give control to the Dungeon Keeper, which would defeat the point of a currency not governed by a single entity but instead by the law.

2. For a set period of time referred to as a Dungeon Period, a dungeon is available. Each dungeon has a set amount of floors. Every player has to start exploring the dungeon at Floor 1 and may progress through floors to reach the top floor, where a boss resides. The first player (we could also change this to every player if we want to be more inclusive towards people who may not have a lot of time to play) to reach the top floor and defeat the boss will obtain an item or a piece of equipment called a

Completion Reward

(once again, name suggestions welcome). After a set amount of IRL time or dungeon phases/turns, the Dungeon Period ends. When a Dungeon Period ends, the dungeon disappears, all players are set back to Level 1, all of their equipment and items (except Battle Tokens and Completion Rewards) are removed from their inventory and a new dungeon appears.

Why does everyone reset to Level 1? Is this a balancing thing? I think it would be cooler if that weren't the case, but I guess I would have to see an actual implementation.

this would prevent veteran players from absolutely stomping newer players and getting to the top instantly after a dungeon appears. the solution to this would be to increase the lethality of new dungeons to be more in line with the levels of the veteran players, but this would lock out new players. the solution to THAT would be to simply have a permanent dungeon or a series of dungeons in place just to facilitate grinding (something like Tartarus in Persona 3) but that would be a bit boring. we could also just keep old dungeons around after a period ends instead of making them disappear, but that would just be a headache to the Dungeon Keeper(s). keeping track of that many dungeons would be quite difficult. plus, new players could be demoralised and opt out of the dungeon system entirely just by seeing how much stuff they have to clear.
resetting everyone to level 1 also allows the Dungeon Keeper to play around with new gimmicks, like new levelling skillsets, a dungeon where everyone stays at Level 1, low-level enemies with new skills, etc. although that can also be done by having level resets just be a per-dungeon mechanic or having different levels that apply in different dungeons. I feel like the latter would be way too janky though.

3. One player or a group of players must be elected as a Dungeon Keeper. A Dungeon Keeper oversees all dungeon-related activites and must keep an up-to-date status page on the Wiki of all dungeon-related information and player statuses. A Dungeon Keeper cannot participate in dungeon-related activities as a player but instead earns a salary every time once a certain amount of time has passed that consists of a set amount of Battle Tokens. All motions to add dungeon-related items and equipment to the Shop require a Yea or Abstain vote from a Dungeon Keeper in order to have the ability to pass. A Dungeon Keeper may be removed from their position by a passed proposal.

It should just be a motion and not a proposal to remove a dungeon keeper.

noted

4. Every player has a set amount of Health and Mana, the ability to use equipment and dungeon-related items, a set of Skills and a set amount of Experience points. When a player’s Health is 0 or below, the player will lose all dungeon-related items and equipment they may have (except Completion rewards) and half of their Battle Tokens (rounded up) and 500 Life will be deducted from their current total.

We already have a mana system of sorts; I think we should expand on that instead of making a new one.

I honestly forgot that that exists when I was writing my proposal but looking at the system now, I have 3 main problems with it
1) This Mana is obtained with Nomic Dollars and has exclusively been used to interact with other players so far
2) The system is so restrictive that it only allows limited use of spells unless you hoard Mana over a very long period of time. Seriously? 250 Nomic Dollars per colored mana? Only one mana purchase per day? I personally want combat to be spell-heavy and tactical as opposed to waving your sword around and hoping it does enough damage
3) Having spells be separated across 5 different types of Mana and only allowing one Mana purchase per day is too janky for a system where you can have tens or hundreds of random encounters before reaching a boss
imo, we rename battle Mana to something like Energy and keep the current Nomic Mana system in place

5. Dungeon floors may contain a set amount of enemy encounters, special mechanics, chests that may contain items, equipment and/or Battle Tokens and a mixture of all 3 of these things. Once all conditions for completing a floor are met, the player may proceed to the next floor.

6. All players start at Level 1. To level up, the player must reach a certain amount of experience points. The amount of experience points required is a consecutive power of 2 for each respective level (for example, 4 XP for level 2, 8 XP for level 3, so on). Levelling up will enhance the player in certain ways, like stat ormaximum Health/Mana increases and/or new skills.
(power of 3 may be better if people like higher numbers. we probably also don’t want to make this too grindy)

How about quadratic growth with some constant factor? Something like 3 XP for level 2, 12 XP for level 3, 27 XP for level 4, 48 XP for level 5, ..., 3 * n * n XP for level n?

that’s a decent idea. something like this probably wouldn’t result in too much grind (plus, XP rewards should scale with enemy level/difficulty anyway)

[lendunistus]

7. At the start of each new Dungeon Phase, a Dungeon Keeper must submit a proposal for a new Dungeon Phase. The proposal must include the following:
1) A name for the dungeon
2) The amount of time the Dungeon Phase will last in in-game phases/turns or IRL time
3) The amount of floors the new dungeon will have
4) A through description of what each floor will contain
5) A list of enemies, their names, stats, Health/Mana and skills
6) A description of the dungeon’s boss, including their name, stats, Health/Mana and skills
7) A description of the players’ initial stats and Health/Mana and a list of rewards each Level will give

This feels a little meh. The main focus of a dungeon is that it's unknown. This is more like venturing into a Walmart than an Ikea

I made designing the dungeon a public affair to avoid unbalanced or unfun dungeons, but if players would rather like to keep the element of surprise, I’m all for letting the Dungeon Keeper(s) design the dungeon in a PT somewhere. the Dungeon Keeper could also consult the thread if they’re unsure about a gimmick or something else

[Jake The Wolfie]

I do have a few ideas for designing a dungeon, but they'd need to be flushed out more.

[lendunistus]

also, when the dungeon system officially launches, given that the Level Up 2 thread (which is a similar-ish system) is at 141 pages, to preserve the discussion (and our sanity), we should create a separate thread for the dungeon system in Frogstar World B (or just lock it behind a PT for people who don’t want to spoil themselves or whatever)

[lendunistus]

also, if we’re going to go for multiple dungeons being available simultaneously, the best way to make everything clearer would be to have everything in a separate thread for each dungeon

however, that would increase clutter

maybe it’s better to just have everything dungeon-related in one thread

[Ircher]

Yeah that sounds like a good idea.

We should have some incentive for inviting more players. We are too often stuck at 4/5 activity wise. Or I guess we could change that requirement, but eh, I feel having a 5 person minimum for decisions, etc. is good for preventing abuses.

[StrangerCoug]

Hi

Having a look at the proposed battle system right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Every player has a set amount of Health and Mana, the ability to use equipment and dungeon-related items, a set of Skills and a set amount of Experience points. When a player’s Health is 0 or below, the player will lose all dungeon-related items and equipment they may have (except Completion rewards) and half of their Battle Tokens (rounded up) and 500 Life will be deducted from their current total.

How will the starting amount of health and mana be determined? Will it be fixed for each dungeon, is it up for the Dungeon Keeper to decide, or what did you have in mind?

Question of the Day #19

Category: History
Question: Which Englishman is credited as one of the two main founders of calculus?

If I'm in time, I believe that is

Isaac Newton

.

[Ircher]

If I'm in time, I believe that is Isaac Newton.

That is correct.

Give StrangerCoug 30 Knowledge Points.

Question of the Day #20

Category: Computer Science
Question: What is the average-case time complexity for merge sort? (Please express your answer in big-O or big-Theta notation.)

[Jake The Wolfie]

nc^2, where c is whatever number gets us to the big o of merge sort

[Ircher]

That is incorrect, assuming you meant O(n^2). Good try though.

Give Jake The Wolfie 2 Knowledge Points.

[StrangerCoug]

Question of the Day #20

Category: Computer Science
Question: What is the average-case time complexity for merge sort? (Please express your answer in big-O or big-Theta notation.)

O(n log n)

?

[lendunistus]

i’ll write up the battle system soon I promise

[Ircher]

Question of the Day #20

Category: Computer Science
Question: What is the average-case time complexity for merge sort? (Please express your answer in big-O or big-Theta notation.)

O(n log n)

?

This is correct.

Give StrangerCoug 30 Knowledge Points.

No new question for today, but I will probably have one tomorrow.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Hmmpt.

[lendunistus]

I forgot to post

I just have to sit down sometime and write some stuff for the proposal, it shouldn’t be that hard

[lendunistus]

okay so I indeed wrote up a battle system

1. Three types of dungeon-related items exist:

Dungeon

items,

Exploration

items and

Battle

items. Dungeon items may be used at any time, Exploration items may only be used while exploring the dungeon and not in a battle and Battle items may only be used while in battle.

2. Any action or item with the word “Instantaneously” in its description does not take up a turn when used. You may only use one instantaenous action or item per turn.

3. Battles may be entered while inside a dungeon.

4. All enemies have a set amount of Health, Mana and stat points. The player can see at any time what an enemy’s Health is, but not their Mana or stats.

5. While in battle, several actions may be performed by both the player and the enemies: attacking, casting a spell, guarding, using an item or attempting to escape. Attacking will deal damage to one enemy. Casting a spell will consume a certain amount of Mana and will result in different effects depending on the spell used. Guarding will reduce all damage taken that turn by 75%. Using an item will result in different effects depending on the item used. Attempting to escape has a 15% base chance to succeed. If successful, the player/enemy will exit the battle and go back to exploring the dungeon. A successful escape rewards no experience or Battle Tokens.

6. The amount of damage dealt by attacks or spells depends on the equipment used, the player’s Attack stat, the enemy’s Defense stat and any buffs or debuffs that may be applied. The damage an attack deals is calculated in the following way:
Subtract the enemy’s Defense stat from the player’s Attack stat. For every point left, positive or negative, the attack deals one percent less/more damage.
Example:
Player has 17 Attack and enemy has 21 Defense. 17 - 21 = -4. Attack deals 4% less damage.
After doing stat calculations, get amount of damage by doing the following equation:
Base damage of spell/attack + stat calculations. Add any buffs or debuffs as necessary.

7. If a player is in a battle, another player on the same floor may request to join the battle if they’re not currently in a battle. One of the players in the battle that got the request must accept the request for the player to be able to join. Requesting to join takes up a turn, but accepting a join request is an instantaneous action. When multiple players successfully complete a battle, the XP and Battle Token rewards will be split between the players in the battle.

8. Boss battles cannot be escaped from with any means unless specified otherwise.

9. When multiple players are exploring the same floor and end up in a battle on the same turn, they will be put in the battle together.

10. After using an item that teleports you to the entrance of the dungeon, you have the option to resume exploring the dungeon from the start of the floor you escaped from unless otherwise specified. This option may be used once, at which point another such item must be used to make it available again unless otherwise specified.

11. Running out of Health will teleport you to the entrance of the dungeon in addition to the effects listed earlier.

12. While at the entrance of the dungeon, you have two options to restore your Health and Mana: resting or going to the hospital. Both options fully restore your Health and Mana, however: resting is free but forbids from performing any dungeon-related actions for 3 turns while going to the hospital is instantaneous but costs a set amount of Battle Tokens.

[lendunistus]

some item ideas I had:

Goho-M -

Exploration Item

Teleports you to the dungeon’s entrance when used.

Escape Gem (once again, name suggestions welcome) -

Battle Item

Allows you to escape from a battle.

Medicine -

Dungeon Item

Heals a certain amount of Health.

there’s probably way more that can be done but this is what I had in mind for now