Codenames (Game 67 in progress)

[Farren]

I wrote this up before looking at what Adorable posted:

Spoiler: Typewriter

BELT: Don't those use some sort of belt to function? Might also explain the more archaic "Typewriter" over "Keyboard".
NOVEL: something that a typewriter could be used for.
TRAIN: typewriting is a skill that could be trained.
CAPITAL: capital letters could be produced by a typewriter.
NOTE: something else a typewriter could be used for.
SPACE: space bar! a key on the typewriter.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Comments

Novel and Note are the two common links.

I haven't heard of the code typewriter effect specifically. However, code tags do use a fixed width font, which is what typewriters usually use. So I can see a connection there.

Haven't heard of a copper typewriter before.
Theater ... eh, maybe? I think we've got enough other ones to choose from.

On my end: I'm very uncertain about BELT being relevant. I'm picturing the mechanism ... what's the term, platen? and I don't think belts are involved. Was also thinking of the correction ribbon, and maybe conflating the two.

TRAIN is probably also not a good choice.

I still like my other four, but NOVEL / SPACE / CAPITAL / NOTE could also be done with Keyboard. CODE is another possibility, but that also works with keyboard (programming - writing code would be done exclusively with a keyboard).

Unless PLATE is somehow relevant ... plate > platen?

Will hold on my rankings until Datisi chimes in.

[Farren]

I've never heard of "code typewriter effect" specifically, but ...

Code: Select all

this is a fixed-width font
typewriters for life

looks like the sort of text a typewriter would produce.

I don't know anything about typewriter metallurgy; all I can say is that I've never heard of the phrase "copper typewriter."

Maybe we should queue up NOVEL > NOTE, then figure out what to do next after those results?

[Farren]

Guess: Novel

Guess: Note

[Farren]

All right, so what next?

Right now, I'm leaning towards something like SPACE > pass.

[Farren]

Guess: SPACE

Pass

[Farren]

Train - both are modes of transportation; both haul cargo.
Horn - trucks can honk their horns.
Plate - trucks have license plates.
Belt - timing belt? drive belt?
Seal - trucks have those too.
Copper - might be used to help make trucks? Electronics and such?

This is the list I came up with before looking at anyone else's list.

[Farren]

Other thoughts:
- We have five words left, and this clue hits all of them, so we could go for the win. Whether or not we *should* is another question entirely.
- We have one word leftover from TYPEWRITER, so exactly one word hits both TRUCK and TYPEWRITER.

Re-evaluating based on other lists:
- Forgot about seatbelts. Another type of belt, which makes that look better.
- Have never heard of a fence truck or a drill truck. I could see either of those as loads of cargo, but going down that route opens up just about anything that isn't abstract.
- Ice cream ... I'm thinking of the vehicles that drive around residential neighborhoods selling ice cream. Nowadays those vehicles (at least in my neck of the woods) are usually SUVs. Food truck, like the ones that park outside businesses and sell their wares? I don't spend enough time in the city to have a good sense of what's likely to be found there.
- Snow ... yeah, that's a possibility. Trucks can have snowplows equipped.

Right now, I'm somewhere along the lines of: Belt > Horn > Plate = Seal > Copper = Train = Snow > Ice Cream > Drill = Fence.

[Farren]

I'd argue Train works better with Truck specifically over Car. All three are modes of transportation, but trains and trucks both are built to haul cargo.
I think Horn goes a *little* better with truck than car (airhorns), but it still fits well enough with car that I agree it's not enough to justify going truck vs. car.

Seal - vehicles aren't my strong suit, but I'm pretty sure that it's one of the internal components of most vehicles. So another "could go equally well with truck or car."

Will wait for Datisi to give an updated ranking, but it looks like we all think Horn and Belt should be early guesses?

[Farren]

I'm trying to reconcile some old memories.

White vehicle. The front, something like a delivery van, with no doors. The back, a pair of coolers filled with ice cream. On the sides, pictures and prices. Played distinctive music, drove slowly.

Is that the thing we're talking about?

[Farren]

Ice Cream is slowly working its way up my personal ranking, though.

Looking something like Belt = Horn > Plate > Train = Snow = Ice Cream > (everything else).

[Farren]

Guess

: Horn

Guess

: Belt

[Farren]

What are the odds that we *need* to go for broke this time around?

I am at least contemplating the notion of Plate > Pass.

[Farren]

Guess: Plate

Pass

[Farren]

Yeah, Ice Cream has to be right.

For the second one, the only other things I can think of besides DRILL are MOLE (as burrowing creature: it has a mouth / as a skin growth: it's part of the body, like a mouth is) and Chest (both body parts), but I don't see how either of those could connect to Truck or Typewriter, even tenuously.

I'm okay with Ice Cream > Drill.

[Farren]

Well done red team.

/in as Spymaster.

[Farren]

/in as operative for farren, if that's allowed.

also /in as operative for farren if allowed

No objections on my end, and the rules do allow for people to specify partners / teams / etc.
(At least, assuming I'm up next. I have no idea what the queue looks like right now.)

[Farren]

Dwarf

DWARF is

RED

.

OPERA	OLIVE	SATURN	LOCK	NUT
BRUSH	LONDON	CAR	CHINA	HOLLYWOOD
TIE	STADIUM	MATCH	REVOLUTION	FAIR
BOX	PENGUIN	SWING	TABLE	DECK
NEEDLE	FAN	OIL	DWARF	EUROPE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/8	3/9
	MOVIES, 4

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Datisi, Not_Mafia, Charles510
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, lilith2013, DragonEater70

[Farren]

FARTHING, 0.

[Farren]

China

CHINA is

blue

.

OPERA	OLIVE	SATURN	LOCK	NUT
BRUSH	LONDON	CAR	CHINA	HOLLYWOOD
TIE	STADIUM	MATCH	REVOLUTION	FAIR
BOX	PENGUIN	SWING	TABLE	DECK
NEEDLE	FAN	OIL	DWARF	EUROPE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
1/8	3/9
FARTHING, 0	MOVIES, 4

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Datisi, Not_Mafia, Charles510
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, lilith2013, DragonEater70

[Farren]

DESTINATIONS, 4.

[Farren]

EUROPE

Europe

is

blue

.

OPERA	OLIVE	SATURN	LOCK	NUT
BRUSH	LONDON	CAR	CHINA	HOLLYWOOD
TIE	STADIUM	MATCH	REVOLUTION	FAIR
BOX	PENGUIN	SWING	TABLE	DECK
NEEDLE	FAN	OIL	DWARF	EUROPE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
2/8	4/9
FARTHING, 0	MOVIES, 4
DESTINATIONS, 4	LINK, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Datisi, Not_Mafia, Charles510
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, lilith2013, DragonEater70

[Farren]

car

Car

is

red

.

OPERA	OLIVE	SATURN	LOCK	NUT
BRUSH	LONDON	CAR	CHINA	HOLLYWOOD
TIE	STADIUM	MATCH	REVOLUTION	FAIR
BOX	PENGUIN	SWING	TABLE	DECK
NEEDLE	FAN	OIL	DWARF	EUROPE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
2/8	5/9
FARTHING, 0	MOVIES, 4
DESTINATIONS, 4	LINK, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Datisi, Not_Mafia, Charles510
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, lilith2013, DragonEater70

[Farren]

OPERA	OLIVE	SATURN	LOCK	NUT
BRUSH	LONDON	CAR	CHINA	HOLLYWOOD
TIE	STADIUM	MATCH	REVOLUTION	FAIR
BOX	PENGUIN	SWING	TABLE	DECK
NEEDLE	FAN	OIL	DWARF	EUROPE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
3/8	6/9
FARTHING, 0	MOVIES, 4
DESTINATIONS, 4	LINK, 3
	MARTINI, UNLIMITED

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Datisi, Not_Mafia, Charles510
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, lilith2013, DragonEater70

[Farren]

ABUSER, UNLIMITED.

[Farren]

Post-mortem on my end:

Spoiler: What was he thinking?

FARTHING, 0: my intent here was to specifically keep Blue away from London - while using the logic of "If London wasn't on the board, what words could be easily grouped together?" in the hopes that Blue would go one of two ways:
a) Place-names. EUROPE, CHINA, and

SATURN

were all good guesses. The only dangerous place-name other than London was Hollywood, which was already off the board.
b) City stuff. This misses SATURN but potentially picks up OPERA and STADIUM in its place, as things you might expect to see in a city. Thinking of London specifically probably also knocks out CHINA, but going with generic "city" hits it. One potential hazard with this route: CAR.
I chose farthings specifically because I wanted something that would exclude London *without* excluding Europe, and farthings were the only things I could think of that weren't potentially ambiguous.
Extra bonus points for figuring out that both paths were valid, as I generally won't give an opening 0 unless there are at *least* four targets - it's a risky play, and high risk plays require juicy rewards to be worthwhile.

DESTINATIONS: my intent here was "just give a list of places." PLACES itself, as well as LOCATION, I figured had too high a risk of hitting CAR. While cars are a means of reaching a destination, I figured "Is a destination" was a stronger connection than "can be used to reach destinations." FAIR was reasonable-but-wrong.

ABUSER: as lilith put it, "hitting synonym" was dead on the money. Taking a SWING at someone and

DECK

ing someone are both synonyms for hitting someone. I had to walk a thin line here - anything that sounds like boxing or other organized full-contact sport runs the risk of hitting MATCH or FAN; anything that sounds like large-scale violence runs the risk of hitting REVOLUTION. NUT was the reason why the clue took the form of the criminal and not the crime or the victim. Again, every other potential clue I thought of either tilted one way or the other, or had ambiguities I wanted to avoid.

I thought of trying to go with BACKYARD instead for a more wholesome clue, but was worried about TABLE, which I thought was a better connection to BACKYARD than NUT was. (picnic tables and such)

[Farren]

probably

Saturn

is the one I'm most comfortable guessing because it's definitely not small and you can't use money to buy planets.

maybe also

China

/

Europe

because they are places that do not use farthings and are not small and you can't use money to buy countries/continents.

(formatting added)

I'd say you were on the right wavelength for the 0 clue too.

[Farren]

/in. Let's see if we can poke some life into this.

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts...

Apple as a fruit:
NEW YORK is known as the Big Apple.
POISON - apples aren't normally poisonous, but Sleeping Beauty did prominently feature a poisoned apple.
WORM - I have this classic image stuck in my head of a worm coming out of an apple that I can't quite place ...
MOUTH - what you'd eat an apple with.

Apple could also refer to the company responsible for Macs and iPhones - but I'd be hesitant to approach too strongly from that direction. There are too many cell phone friendly words out there, and the clue wasn't iPhone.

I'm most confident with NEW YORK. Especially given that lilith's location is listed as New York.

[Farren]

Yeah, it's a very common nickname (at least for New York City itself). Heck, my wife was watching a baking show yesterday where the term came up.

Question is, how should we order our guesses here? Both of us came up with the same sort of images. (I at least considered ROUND when writing up my list, and would have included it if the clue was APPLE 4 or more.)

[Farren]

I'm tentatively thinking that MOUTH is the odd one out? It doesn't really connect to apples specifically, while the other three words do.

[Farren]

Fair enough. Let's do it.

Guess: New York

Guess: Worm

[Farren]

Tentatively Poison? I'd also be okay with passing, though.

[Farren]

Guess: Poison

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts...

ROUND has to be correct here. Cylinders are nothing if not round. (Looks like you were right earlier, Adorable.)
BAR ... maybe? Some bars are cylinders. Jail bars and rebar ...
HOLE ... also a maybe. Depends on how they're dug. They at least get close to cylindrical, though.
POOL ... a kiddy pool would be cylindrical. An Olympic pool, not so much.

ROUND >> BAR > HOLE = POOL is where I am right now.

[Farren]

I think there are enough types of BARs that are cylindrical to make it a good candidate (although admittedly not as good as ROUND).
BLOCK ... yeah, I can see it. I'd see it in terms of "both BLOCK and CYLINDER" are 3D shapes - and actually, that might explain CYLINDER over CYLINDRICAL.

Maybe ROUND > BLOCK > BAR > Pass? At this point I'm assuming ROUND was intended to be the last apple word.

[Farren]

Guess: Round

Guess: Block

Guess: Bar

Pass

[Farren]

Very impressive clues throughout.

/in as any.

[Farren]

QUARANTINE, 3.

[Farren]

DISEASE

is

RED

.

SUIT

is

BLUE

.

Blue team's turn.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
1/8	1/9
	QUARANTINE - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

Fire

FIRE

is

BLUE

.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
2/8	1/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

MUG

MUG

is

BLUE

.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
3/8	1/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

TCHAIKOVSKY, 3

.

[Farren]

Moscow

Shakespere

Conductor

MOSCOW

is

RED

.

SHAKESPEARE

is

Neutral

.

Blue team's turn.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
3/8	2/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3
	TCHAIKOVKSY - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

DINOSAUR

TABLET

DINOSAUR

is

BLUE

.

TABLET

is

BLUE

.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
5/8	2/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3
ANCIENT - 2	TCHAIKOVKSY - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

FLOTSAM, 2

.

[Farren]

PUPIL
COVER

PUPIL

is

BLUE

.

COVER

is

BLUE

.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	5/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3
ANCIENT - 2	TCHAIKOVKSY - 3
EYELID - 2	FLOTSAM - 2

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

BRAMBLES, UNLIMITED.

[Farren]

Berry
Horn
Fence

BERRY

is

RED

.

HORN

is

RED

.

FENCE

is

RED

.

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	8/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3
ANCIENT - 2	TCHAIKOVKSY - 3
EYELID - 2	FLOTSAM - 2
	BRAMBLES - UNLIMITED

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

Seal

SEAL

is

RED

.

Red team wins!

BERRY	HORN	PIRATE	MUG	MERCURY
CENTAUR	FENCE	DISEASE	AMERICA	COVER
FIRE	TURKEY	SEAL	SHAKESPEARE	ORANGE
PENGUIN	PISTOL	DINOSAUR	PUPIL	SUIT
MOSCOW	CIRCLE	TABLET	CONDUCTOR	LITTER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	9/9
KILN - 3	QUARANTINE - 3
ANCIENT - 2	TCHAIKOVKSY - 3
EYELID - 2	FLOTSAM - 2
	BRAMBLES - UNLIMITED

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Farren	Adorable, Gypyx
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	ORAM, DragonEater70

[Farren]

Gypyx already covered most of what I was thinking there.
I knew that BRAMBLES would point towards ORANGE to some extent, but the problem is that BERRY and ORANGE are too close to each other to clue one without at least kinda cluing the other too, especially when it's the totally unambiguous word that needs to be clued. I was hoping that going "strong BERRY / weak ORANGE" plus "it's unlimited, not 3/4 - that means you're looking for 1-2 strong BRAMBLE words, then go back to the old clues" would prevent ORANGE from ruining everything.
I figured FENCE was also a very strong connection - stronger than ORANGE, at least - so anyone looking for two BRAMBLE words would be satisfied with BERRY / FENCE.

Well done, team!

[Farren]

/in, any role.

[Farren]

War

WAR is

RED

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/8	0/9
	BLOODY, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey

[Farren]

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/8	3/9
	BLOODY, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey

[Farren]

HOLY, 4.

[Farren]

MELTS, UNLIMITED.

[Farren]

Chocoloate

CHOCOLATE

is

BLUE

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
5/8	5/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

Laser

LASER

is

BLUE

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/8	5/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

time

TIME

is

BLUE

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	5/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

Thief

THIEF

is

RED

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	6/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3
	TAKING, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

Back

BACK

is

RED

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	7/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3
	TAKING, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

Mine

MINE

is

RED

.

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	8/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3
	TAKING, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

HORSESHOE	CHURCH	LASER	LONDON	BUCK
THIEF	KETCHUP	PANTS	CHICK	WAR
BACK	OLIVE	FRANCE	LIGHT	TIME
SPY	FIRE	SOUL	CHOCOLATE	PASTE
FLUTE	MINE	NINJA	SATELLITE	MERCURY

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/8	8/9
Holy - 4	BLOODY, 3
MELTS, UNLIMITED	NONHUMAN, 3
	TAKING, 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	biancospino	Charles510, KayJayQueue, Black
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Adorable, humaneatingmonkey, lilith2013

[Farren]

INSTRUMENT, 1.

[Farren]

GG, everyone! And congratulations to lilith for solving the mystery of the unexpected unlimited.

[Farren]

/in, ditto. (Prefer guesser, but will spymaster if needed.)

[Farren]

Agreed that THUMB is a lock, and probably the one we should guess first.

HORN is another possibility. Both sharp, pointy objects.

Not seeing a lot of other good possibilities. Maybe PLOT, like plotting a graph? But that one's pretty weak.

[Farren]

Always a good idea to consider other definitions. What did you have in mind?

[Farren]

Getting close to the 48 hour mark. Think we were all agreed on the first guess, at least, so:

THUMB

[Farren]

It was one I'd at least considered, so sure. If Copper is good, I'd say Horn for the third, myself.

[Farren]

Unofficial board:

COTTON	AZTEC	EAGLE	GREECE	BAR
MOSCOW	VET	BUFFALO	HORN	EMBASSY
TIE	THUMB	IVORY	UNICORN	CODE
GREEN	PLOT	FORK	DATE	COPPER
SOLDIER	HEART	FLY	WHIP	AFRICA

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/8	1/9
	tack - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	lilith2013	KayJayQueue, Black, Farren
BLUE TEAM	humaneatingmonkey	GreedyBanger, biancospino, Adorable

[Farren]

Spoiler: Centaurs...

UNICORN seems pretty solid - both mythological equine creatures.
GREECE also seems solid, as centaurs primarily feature in Greek mythology.
BUFFALO is another quadruped, although not as strong as UNICORN

I still like HORN as well for TACK.

Initial order for me is UNICORN > GREECE > HORN > BUFFALO.

[Farren]

Anyone object to a guess of TACK next?

[Farren]

Sorry, I meant HORN as a clue for TACK.

[Farren]

HORN

[Farren]

Thoughts on the unlimited:
1) We have five words total left to guess. Of those, no more than three connect to GOLD. (If four or five connected, lilith could have clued GOLD 4 or GOLD 5, which would give us more information.)
2) We absolutely should go for the win if we can. Opponents have clued 7/8 words, and we guessed one of their words. Worst-case scenario, they've clued all of their remaining words and will get a clarifying clue next round if given the opportunity.

[Farren]

TACK - THUMB, ?, ?
CENTAUR - GREECE, UNICORN, (vet?)
GOLD - ???

Vet may or may not be the last Centaur word. I can't see VET connecting to TACK in any way. So it's either TACK 2 + GOLD 3, or possibly TACK 2 + GOLD 2 + CENTAUR 1.

[Farren]

Thoughts on GOLD.

BAR pretty much has to be right.
IVORY and Gold are both precious materials.
HEART of Gold is a common saying.

And I agree there's a connection to both AZTEC and GREEN as well. Gold and GREEN are both colors. AZTEC, I don't have anything solid I can point at, but thinking that the civilization in general was loaded with gold?

[Farren]

My initial thought is "Guess BAR, then start hashing out the TACK words." I'm still at a loss there, especially with HORN being wrong.

[Farren]

Field operatives may discuss clues with each other if they so wish, but they must do so in thread—getting help from outside the thread (for example, searching on Google) is not allowed, nor is help permitted from anyone not participating in the current game. (As a matter of fact, when in doubt, you should treat the currently ongoing match like you would a Mafia game.)

If I were the one making the ruling, based on that, I'd say GTKAS would count as getting help from outside the thread. ISOing this thread should be fair game, though, by any of those listed standards.

Not my call to make, though.

[Farren]

Hm. Could TIE be a TACK word? Both means of connecting two objects together ...

[Farren]

Think we're all agreed that BAR is a good guess, so ...

BAR

[Farren]

Was thinking we should concentrate on TACK first and GOLD second; now I'm having second thoughts.

I think TACK will be tougher than GOLD.

If we bomb out early, the more words are left on the board, the harder it will be (hopefully?) for our opponents to win.
But if we bomb out early and do get another shot, we're more likely to get another unlimited clue, which will be harder to work with.

[Farren]

I'm leaning towards "it's more important to make life tougher for our opponents if we can't win". I think they're in a decent position to win if they get another turn.

[Farren]

The only other thing I can see that makes any sense to me is FORK, and that's the same sort of connection that HORN was, which makes me really distrust it.

How does COTTON work again? I know it was sewing related, but I know nothing about sewing.

[Farren]

Is tacking specific to cotton, or would it be done with other fabrics as well?

How common is cotton in sewing? Is it the go-to choice, or one of many commonly-used choices?

[Farren]

Unless I've misjudged the gamestate, there are two remaining TACK words. Could very well be TIE / COTTON. If it weren't for FORK, I'd say just lock those two in and be done with it.

What I'm trying to judge is something along the lines of "Would lilith use TACK to aim for a pointy object, despite HORN being a pointy object and a blue word?"

THUMB / TIE / COTTON
THUMB / TIE / FORK
THUMB / COTTON / FORK

Right now, I'm thinking the last of those three is probably wrong. Which leads me to "TIE is probably right."

[Farren]

I'm not very confident on AZTEC right now. I think it's a decent connection, but I also think the other three connections are also decent.

And I definitely want to have an extended discussion about the GOLD words before we guess any more of them.

[Farren]

Hypothetical. Let's say lilith clued SILVER 3 instead of GOLD 3. Would AZTEC be a good hit for SILVER?

[Farren]

(okay, she didn't clue GOLD 3. She clued GOLD UNLIMITED. Still, I'm treating it as GOLD 3 unless someone wants to make an argument for a CENTAUR word that isn't VET.)

[Farren]

TIE

[Farren]

Black: would you say that your knowledge of sewing is itself public knowledge? Can you think of any cases anywhere on-site where the topic has come up?

You were trying to puzzle out earlier if lilith had any knowledge of sewing. From the spymaster's POV, that can be taken in reverse - if you're giving a clue in an obscure subject, you have to gauge the likelihood that your agents will be able to figure it out. It only takes one agent to make the connection, but these sorts of things can be a hard sell, especially if the connection isn't a direct one.

[Farren]

Right, no, I agree, looking it up would be a bad idea. Was more of a "Do you remember the topic coming up" type of thing.

[Farren]

Case for FORK:
- A fork's primary purpose is to skewer objects (for the purpose of eating.) A tack's primary purpose is to skewer objects (for the purpose of joining them together).
- A fork's tines look very similar to the business end of a tack.
Case against FORK:
- HORN used similar logic: both HORNs and TACKS are used to skewer things. HORN was wrong, and an enemy word to boot.
- The other two known connections are THUMB (thumbtacks are a type of tack) and TIE (both methods of joining things); the connection types are different.
Counterpoint: While FORK has other definitions (fork in the road; fork in programming), I'd argue the primary definition of FORK, and the one that probably comes to everyone's mind first is the eating utensil. HORN is a bit more ... ambiguous, and I could easily see someone seeing HORN and thinking of the automobile sort of horn, while skipping over the rhino sort of horn. Alternately, it could be a strength-of-connection case, where lilith thought that THUMB / TIE / FORK would be stronger connections than HORN - in which case, it's a calculated risk (that didn't pay off).

[Farren]

The only other sort of hit I had was PLOT, and I'm too uncertain about that to be able to make any sort of case for it.

[Farren]

I definitely don't see FORK as a stretch. I see the connection as "shared purpose".

Now that I think of it, it's not *that* different from the TIE connection. Shared purpose, just from a different perspective. But, again, HORN.

What's killing me is trying to judge lilith's propensity for sewing with insufficient information. My gut says "no", but I don't know if I can trust it here.

Evidence I can think of to support my gut: lilith's signature. She links to personal finance, gardening, and skincare. Trawling through those threads would be against the spirit of the rules, so I won't - but it does tell me she actively expresses her interests outside of Mafia here, and that sewing probably isn't one of her top three interests.

That's certainly not a smoking gun by any stretch, but still. It's something, I guess?

[Farren]

My idea for PLOT was something along the lines of ... plotting a graph, I guess? That sort of plot. I could envision using tacks on a graph to express points.

It's a fuzzy, weak connection, IMO. I'd pick either FORK or COTTON over it any day.

[Farren]

Trust me, I'm going through the same things you are. This game can bite people in unexpected ways so many times. Both from the "wait, you can do what with cotton?" perspective and from the "how can anybody not know about sewing?" perspective.