Haunted Carnival - Game Ended

For completed/abandoned Mish Mash Games.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #75 (ISO) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:31 pm

Post by Skelda »

What if he has no option but to eliminate you? Which is the situation we can produce.

I am going to the first location next round. If you like living, go with me. If you choose death like Shadoweh, go elsewhere.
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #76 (ISO) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:33 pm

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 75, Skelda wrote:What if he has no option but to eliminate you? Which is the situation we can produce.

I am going to the first location next round. If you like living, go with me. If you choose death like Shadoweh, go elsewhere.
He can choose not to kill. :P What kind of a choice would killing me and automatically losing the game be?
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #77 (ISO) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:40 pm

Post by Skelda »

Okay, then no one dies ever.
User avatar
McMenno
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
User avatar
User avatar
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
One For Aren't-We-All
Posts: 5159
Joined: February 18, 2015
Pronoun: they/them
Location: In spaaaace

Post Post #78 (ISO) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:43 pm

Post by McMenno »

optimal strategy is to assign one ghost to location one, the other to location two

everyone hides with one of the two ghosts

if the bad ghost is in location one then he has to kill there and reveals himself; same thing if he's in location two

and if he doesn't stick to the location agreed upon then we know he's the bad ghost too
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #79 (ISO) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 77, Skelda wrote:Okay, then no one dies ever.
Or: you could hide randomly! Then everyone gets a chance to play the game!
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #80 (ISO) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:37 pm

Post by Skelda »

I mean the Bad Ghost is just going to infinitely No Kill at that point McMenno. Our best bet would be forcing the bad ghost to move and we have it in our power to do that, but maybe we're better off just doing that when there are fewer people to organize since there's absolutely no harm in agreeing at, say, the F5 or F4 or whatever.

But at the same time, I don't want to cut it too close and have someone do something stupid that messes up a guaranteed win.
User avatar
Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog
Kayak
User avatar
User avatar
Cheery Dog
Kayak
Kayak
Posts: 8035
Joined: June 30, 2012
Location: OMG BALL!

Post Post #81 (ISO) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:45 am

Post by Cheery Dog »

In post 79, Shadoweh wrote:
In post 77, Skelda wrote:Okay, then no one dies ever.
Or: you could hide randomly! Then everyone gets a chance to play the game!
Can we rearrange the two games so that all the people like shadoweh (and me) are in one and the people that want to act like it's mafia or whatever they're doing are in the other?

Easy solution to eveyone's problems.
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
User avatar
McMenno
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
User avatar
User avatar
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
One For Aren't-We-All
Posts: 5159
Joined: February 18, 2015
Pronoun: they/them
Location: In spaaaace

Post Post #82 (ISO) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:01 am

Post by McMenno »

no wait the optimal strategy is

all visitors and ghost one hide in location one; ghost two hides in location two

if ghosts two hides anywhere else they're confirmed to be the bad ghost

but an optimal strategy like that wouldn't work because people perceive a 100% winrate as unfun
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #83 (ISO) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:02 am

Post by Shadoweh »

It's only a 100% winrate for the Good Ghost. That's what I don't think people get across both games.
The point isn't to identify the Good Ghost and win, it's also to survive until the end to get the chance to pick it.
Like, it's not 14 town and 1 scum, it's a town, a scum and 13 Survivors.

(basically Chevre should just emergency patch the games so the ghosts can't declare where they're hiding
Or anyone I guess since that would probably just lead the visitors to mass huddle together.)
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Shaziro
Shaziro
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Shaziro
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2574
Joined: April 20, 2016
Location: Doggoland

Post Post #84 (ISO) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:58 am

Post by Shaziro »

Shadoweh, that doesn't change that the highest chance of survival is to follow one of the two ghosts.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #85 (ISO) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:36 pm

Post by Skelda »

In post 82, McMenno wrote:no wait the optimal strategy is

all visitors and ghost one hide in location one; ghost two hides in location two

if ghosts two hides anywhere else they're confirmed to be the bad ghost

but an optimal strategy like that wouldn't work because people perceive a 100% winrate as unfun
This is what I've been trying super to say. I'll take a guaranteed win though and I'm the good ghost and if you aren't a ghost then it isn't 100% because you still have to survive.
User avatar
Chevre
Chevre
Honourable Mention
User avatar
User avatar
Chevre
Honourable Mention
Honourable Mention
Posts: 845
Joined: February 19, 2010
Location: NEBRASKA
Contact:

Post Post #86 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:28 pm

Post by Chevre »

A great chorus of flushing!

Gammagooey and Shadoweh run to the front of the bathrooms to see what is causing such a ruckus! But they're just in time to see everyone emerge safe, sound, and relieved from the Men's and Family Restrooms. After all the flushes die down, the Women's Bathroom is quiet. Adorabebs opens the door --CREAAAAAK-- and they go inside.

All the stalls are occupied, but one by one they open to smiling faces.
Xalxe . . .
yawetag . . .
Shaziro . . .
Aronis . . .
Clumsy . . .
But
JaeReed's
stall never opens. JaeReed was flushed down the toilet and was never heard from again.

So you all run screaming to another part of the carnival! This time to the fun house (how cliche can you get?). How much fun are you gonna have?

Hiding Choices

Amidst the Punching Bags
In the Ball Pit
In the Mirror Room
On the WHEEL OF DOOM


48-ish hours!

---

How are you all feeling about the game? It certainly seems terribly broken but I don't want to make any changes without all sides approving them. Let me know what I can do to make this enjoyable!
There will be no kisses tonight
There will be no holding hands tonight
'Cause what is now wasn't there before and should not be
User avatar
Clumsy
Clumsy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Clumsy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1706
Joined: January 10, 2016
Location: MAP:08

Post Post #87 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:50 am

Post by Clumsy »

I love the idea of the game, trying to narrow down the ghosts depending on who died where, but I didn't realize it could be broken in a few ways at the onset. It's just inherent in the set up. The only way I could really see it done without being able to break it would be if the Good Ghost didn't know they were the good ghost. Then even they would be trying to logic out the game.

Chev, I'm down for whatever balance changes you need to make. We could either restart and use that, or if you have any other ideas, we could use that. Up to you!
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #88 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:50 am

Post by Skelda »

I mean, the Good Ghost not knowing who the Bad Ghost is would solve a lot of problems with it being broken since you can't instantly narrow it down to two people, though there are still problems.
User avatar
Shaziro
Shaziro
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Shaziro
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2574
Joined: April 20, 2016
Location: Doggoland

Post Post #89 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:21 am

Post by Shaziro »

Even the good ghost not knowing who the bad ghost is leads to the both ghosts claim scenario. Good ghost immediately claims. If the bad ghost doesn't counter claim, when it gets down to the final two you know who is the good ghost. If the bad ghost -does- counter claim, you're back to where you were. If the good ghost doesn't know that they're the good ghost (since their power is passive) and the bad ghost of course knows who both ghosts are, then the entire game becomes the narrowing down and attempting to corner the bad ghost that it was meant to be. It becomes a game of "X died in this group therefore nobody else who was there is the good ghost, we have to try and spread those guys out now and keep trying to force the bad ghost into clearing new people of being the good ghost" kind of thing.
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #90 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:25 am

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 86, Chevre wrote: How are you all feeling about the game? It certainly seems terribly broken but I don't want to make any changes without all sides approving them. Let me know what I can do to make this enjoyable!
It would be too late to not tell the ghosts who each other are, but as long as the ghosts know they're ghosts I don't think you can stop a 'hide together' strategy from happening, so it stands to reason that stopping discussion of hiding places fixes it. Even if Good ghost doesn't know the Bad Ghost, everyone will still want to hide beside them.
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #91 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:33 am

Post by Skelda »

So wait, the Good Ghost just thinks they are a Visitor and isn't even told that they are a Ghost? That actually probably balances it.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #92 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:34 am

Post by Skelda »

Shadow's way eliminates all strategy and I generally don't like limits on what people can say, but you are right that the ghosts being able to claim locations breaks the game in its current state.
User avatar
McMenno
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
User avatar
User avatar
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
One For Aren't-We-All
Posts: 5159
Joined: February 18, 2015
Pronoun: they/them
Location: In spaaaace

Post Post #93 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:40 am

Post by McMenno »

In post 0, Chevre wrote:(If this happens, the Bad Ghost will also be shown to be hiding in the same location.)
I think removing this rule mostly fixes it. why was it even added in the first place?
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 92, Skelda wrote:Shadow's way eliminates all strategy and I generally don't like limits on what people can say, but you are right that the ghosts being able to claim locations breaks the game in its current state.
I agree that it does but as long as everyone can go to one spot it works that way.
If there was a reason not to go to the same spot, like every place could only hold so many people or something, or 'if everyone hides in the same place half of them are randomly sent to no-man's land where no ghosts are' or something.
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Shaziro
Shaziro
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Shaziro
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2574
Joined: April 20, 2016
Location: Doggoland

Post Post #95 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:57 am

Post by Shaziro »

Still pretty sure the best way to make this game a strategy game rather than a broken one is to simply make the Good Ghost not know they are the good ghost or who the bad ghost is.
User avatar
Gammagooey
Gammagooey
Glad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Gammagooey
Glad Hatter
Glad Hatter
Posts: 7608
Joined: October 24, 2009

Post Post #96 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:36 am

Post by Gammagooey »

In post 95, Shaziro wrote:Still pretty sure the best way to make this game a strategy game rather than a broken one is to simply make the Good Ghost not know they are the good ghost or who the bad ghost is.
In post 93, McMenno wrote:
In post 0, Chevre wrote:(If this happens, the Bad Ghost will also be shown to be hiding in the same location.)
I think removing this rule mostly fixes it. why was it even added in the first place?
yeah i think at least one of these two is the way to go
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #97 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:57 am

Post by Shadoweh »

Oh, here's a good idea, adding to removing the 'bad ghost is also shown in this location' thing
A rule where if the Good and Bad ghost hide in the same location, people there can be killed
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:10 pm

Post by Skelda »

I like the Good Ghost knowing that they are good, but not that they are a ghost. That pretty much solves it I think.
User avatar
Chevre
Chevre
Honourable Mention
User avatar
User avatar
Chevre
Honourable Mention
Honourable Mention
Posts: 845
Joined: February 19, 2010
Location: NEBRASKA
Contact:

Post Post #99 (ISO) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:08 pm

Post by Chevre »

I'm going to
end this game
. I've received just over half of submissions across the two games, and it is clear that it is pretty broken.

My apologies. I'm glad to have tried to resurrect it, but it looks I didn't do a very good job.
There will be no kisses tonight
There will be no holding hands tonight
'Cause what is now wasn't there before and should not be
Locked

Return to “Sens-O-Tape Archive”