Secret Hitler (Game Over)

[BuJaber]

If SS is lib we lose. Actions > words.

I'm voting nein for insp, NM, SS, nsg, vij, Robin.
Not saying how they will vote is also telling. Obviously 2 or 3 of the quiet ones are liberal but not joining the discussions and just sheeping insp/SS.

I'd rather take my chances with the random draw until a safer president comes along than give fascists the kill power.

[BuJaber]

Actually nsg is confirmed not hitler.. thanks for that info fascists .

Nsg and reck should be chancellors for the rest of the game.

[BuJaber]

Not nsg.. NM*

[BuJaber]

I told you he is most probably not hitler.. now we have proof.

Anybody picking someone other than NM/reck for chancellor is scum claiming.

[xRECKONERx]

why nein on vij

[BuJaber]

Doesn't post and then votes nein. We don't know what he's thinking he's keeping his cards close to his chest. We can't afford to trust him.

[mallowgeno]

Wait we can't have NM as chancellor? Why not?

[mallowgeno]

I'm asking like even if we wanted to elect him, I thought it was only the last president that couldn't become chancellor?

[BuJaber]

Let me try to make it simple

Every election the president cannot pick as his chancellor someone who was in the previous election.
So take the first election in this game.. harambey (Reck) was president and you were chancellor.
So the next president (NM) could not at the time pick harambey or you.

If a candidacy is rejected by the votes (like what just happened) it doesn't count as an election that actually went through. So you and reck are still the last two people to go on a successful election and thus nsg cannot pick you.

As for the President slot, the normal restriction is not there. A president can be someone who was most recently a chancellor. But there is no way for a president to become president twice in a row because it goes in order, and the special presidency cannot be awarded to yourself.

[mallowgeno]

Okay got it, thanks.

So then we should just do NSG/NM then for this vote.

[Mitillos]

@BuJ: I think N_M and nsg are lib (plus one of Vij and Nico) and simply voted nein because of your investigation result on inspi. It's not a completely unreasonable position, even if it potentially moves us away from victory. Also, there's another reason for you to thoroughly revise your nein list. You left mallow out.

[BuJaber]

Maybe. But I don't like how secretive nsg is being. Also surely you can understand my position. Inspi is confirmed scum to me. I know the neins cannot all be fascist because they were a majority (and it's highly unlikely all fascists will vote the same way anyway) but voting the against me and siding with inspi in the votes is going to look real suspicious.

NM needs to be free to be chancellor when Reck can't, so we probably will have to nein his presidency if it comes back to him, so that he can be picked as chancellor. That's why he remains on the nein list but with an asterix.

You're right about mallow but he also seems too clueless to be dangerous as president. He's my best bet for hitler. There is one rare possible scenario at the last election where fascists cannot risk letting the vote pass on two liberals because of veto power and liberals cannot risk the random policy so both teams compromise and pick the least likely fascist to get rejected. This is such an edge case and one that is only applicable when you have a divided town. Otherwise the lib bloc can just win any election they want.

This also ties in to why the best strategy when you have a conflict in investigation is to try and prove which one of them is the liberal so that all the liberals can support them. The way this game is going we will be divided until the end.

I'll Ja nsg if he picks NM or me (and reck if somehow nsg gets the presidency again later)

So this is how the updated nein list looks:
Mallow**
Nico
Vij
SS
Inspi

NM*

[BuJaber]

+ nsg (if chancellor is Buj/NM/Reck)

[BuJaber]

Is not* lol.. next time I'll just write a Yes list instead of a No list. Less negatives less confusion

[Mitillos]

@BuJ: Naturally I can understand your point of view, because I'm pretty much in the same position. S_S is confirmed scum for me. Unfortunately, I know that other players generally have a hard time reading me (my posting style has been used as scum "evidence" against me in the past, for example, and has even been described as "too robotic"), so I am pretty much predisposed to accept that other players will not be certain which of me and S_S is liberal and which is fascist, as a matter of course.

You should also note that nsg and N_M have made 15 and 18 posts each. Their interactions with both you and inspi are minimal. Furthermore, since your investigation on him, inspi has slowly reduced his contributions. In fact, the biggest posts he's made since then were largely aimed at you (the one person he has ostensibly no reason to try to communicate with, if he is liberal). In other words, he avoids contact with others, so that they can be uncertain about him, and by extension you.

[mallowgeno]

"he also seems too clueless to be dangerous as president"

>.>

[NicoRobin]

V/LA until the 13th of July

[BuJaber]

"he also seems too clueless to be dangerous as president"

>.>

Sorry if it sounded harsh. Just how it feels to me.

[Something_Smart]

V/LA until the 13th of July

Oh no. Maybe your activity will be worse

In other news I continue to be the only person to look at things from a neutral point of view (and to recognize that I don't deserve to be trusted). The proper exclusion block is every president who passed a fascist policy and every person who was investigated as fascist: {BuJaber, inspi, S_S, Mitillos, mallow}.

[Mitillos]

Bzzt, incorrect:

1) Being a president who passed a fascist policy does not mean you are untrustworthy; the governments don't exist in isolation, they are part of the rest of the game.

2) I agree that if someone is investigated as fascist there should be a question mark over them and their investigator. But this ends the moment that one has a read on at least one of the pair. I have a libread on BuJ, as well as a fasc-read on inspi, because of the things they've said and done since the investigation. If you have better people to vote for, sure, avoid both people involved in an investigation, but if you don't, then a call has to be made. Which brings us to:

3) Vijarada and Nico Robin have done suspicious things before. They have also largely or completely stayed out of the conversation since. This is anti-liberal behaviour at best. However, I'm glad to see that you are trying to indirectly and subtly defend them by conveniently leaving them out of your list despite this, because it confirms my suspicions about them (well, most likely one of them at any rate, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and avoid sending a fascist on any government, something that your exclusion list patently does not do, given that it is excluding no more than 3 of the 4 fascists).

Oh, and as a side point, a neutral point of view is not actually a thing, especially here, given that we are all voting on these governments. I also recognise that trust is not something that should be afforded to me automatically, but I won't pretend that this means that I can now just sit out of everything as an outsider, and not try to give my reads (actual reads mind you, not mechanical processes for creating a list without examining any further implications of said list), or otherwise participate. I back what I say with actual arguments, which others can examine and determine whether they agree or not. Thus "trust" is irrelevant, and all that matters to me is that people examine and evaluate my arguments on their own merits. And if they disagree with me, I ask them for reasons (as I did e.g. when Reck said that he should not be investigated), not because of any notion that I should be trusted, but because I also want to evaluate the arguments of others, to see if I agree or not.

[inspiratieloos]

So, mallow, why did you decide to vote in favour of this government when you said you thought NM was a Fascist?

Similarly, Reck, I'd really like to know how you switched from saying you'd downvote any government from BuJaber to voting in favour of this one.

SS, it's about the number of Liberal policies available, not who played them. If hypothetically Fascist!Reck and Fascist!NM had both buried a Liberal and one was on the bottom of the deck, BuJaber, you and mallow would have completely genuinely all drawn FFF. So eliminating everyone with some suspicion means eliminating Reck and NM too, leaving you with 7 eliminated players, while eliminating anywhere from 2-4 Fascists, that isn't any better than just randomly picking people to eliminate.


As for this turn, NM seems the most obvious candidate for Chancellor, I'm pretty sure everyone downvoted the last government over BuJaber, not him.

[Something_Smart]

Probability states that it's more likely the liberals were burned by people who claimed to not draw any.

[xRECKONERx]

Similarly, Reck, I'd really like to know how you switched from saying you'd downvote any government from BuJaber to voting in favour of this one.

I was tired of stagnation and can barely remember who should be in charge of what

Plus I sort of wanted to see what NM would do/claim

[BuJaber]

See this is the weird part. The people advocating for a mechanical approach instead of making decisions based reads were also against the idea of testing the investigation pair(s) which is a mechanical strategy.

If we were to ignore everyone under suspicion that just leaves the two people we need as chancellor and the lurkers. It's just gambling that you don't pick a fascist president.

[inspiratieloos]

Probability states that it's more likely the liberals were burned by people who claimed to not draw any.

Yeah sure, a bit, but we're talking about 25-40% probabilities here, that's not really 'unlikely to ever happen' territory.

Similarly, Reck, I'd really like to know how you switched from saying you'd downvote any government from BuJaber to voting in favour of this one.

I was tired of stagnation and can barely remember who should be in charge of what

Plus I sort of wanted to see what NM would do/claim

Honestly, I have no idea what to say to that.