Mashies Nominations 2022!


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Mashies Nominations 2022!

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:48 am

Post by Scummies »


Posts in this thread
WILL
count toward nominations
Feel free to submit
ALL
nominations in thread by making a post in the format linked above.


January 20th, 2023 will be the last day to submit nominations
(expired on 2023-01-20 23:59:59)


Hello, and welcome to the new and improved 2022 Mashies Nomination thread! You'll notice it looks just like the Scummies Nominations thread, and will work just the same. You still nominate in thread like we did before. There are merely some formatting and tracking differences to make everybody's job easier. This thread may be used for both nomination and discussion. The awards themselves are handed out during the winter season of 2023 during an awards ceremony!

In addition to submitting a nomination, you can also submit an anti-nomination, speaking against a nomination. These will not be listed publicly, but forwarded to the judges who decide to judge.
See the post below on how to nominate someone for a mashie or submit an anti-nom!

The Awards
♩   ♫   ♪
Banner
Award Name
Award Purpose
Eligible Parties
Award Description
The Mashies
Image
Mashtermind
Best General Mish Mash Game
Moderator Award
Any game that is run in Mish Mash -- other than the ones excluded by the category below -- is eligible for this award. It can be a board game! It can be an endless, continuous game with no end! It can be a game show! Hell, it can be a beauty pageant for all we care! What mod really rocked it out and made their game extra special this year?
Image
Best Social Game
Moderator Award
This award can be given to any game that has a decent number of players and relies on social manipulation. Yes, obviously, your Survivor games and Big Brother games will go here. But so can The Mole, or Amazing Race, or any sort of game that involves a reality-style competition. Running these games can be a long, difficult, arduous process, and nobody is perfect, but if you feel a mod did a great job, toss up their name for consideration. With the exception of marathons, every Large Social Game that runs to completion during this year is eligible and will automatically be considered, but nominations help give the games you love that much more weight.
Image
Smash Mouth
Best Overall Mish Mash Player
Individual Award
This award goes to the person who best exemplified what it takes to be a great Mish Mash Player throughout the year! They were smart, strategic, and tactical? Check. They were enjoyable, nice, and pleasant? Check. Did you sign up for a game when they did because you wanted to play with them? Then this is the award for them!
Image
Best Mish Mash Newbie
Individual Award
This award goes to the person who's fairly new and has made the largest, most positive impact on the community in the short time they've been here. New players are always getting involved with our section of the site, and everyone should be encouraged to be the best they can be.
Image
Mashterstroke
Best Moment
Individual Award
Did someone say something hilarious in a Mish Mash or Large Social Game? Did they pull off a ridiculous play? Did something happen that was incredibly memorable? This is the award for a moment in any Large Social or Mish Mash game that stood out and should be recognized.
Last edited by Scummies on Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:48 am

Post by Scummies »

Submitting a Nomination


Please use the following formatting. There's more you can do after you filled out the form if you want to be nice and make our life easier, so keep reading.
Award Name
date [dd/mm/yy] Nominator [This is your name]Nominee [The person you want to nominate]Full Name of the game ["Survivor 20143: Blah Blah Blah" for example. Make sure you use codes to make sure that clicking on the name of the game takes to the game thread or post in question.]Description on why this person should win this award.


Use this award for all awards

Code: Select all

[table][header=5]Award Name[/header]
[row][cell]dd/mm/yy[/cell]
[cell]Nominator[/cell]
[cell]Nominee[/cell]
[cell][url=game link]Full Name of the game or post[/url][/cell]
[cell]-insert your description here-[/cell][/row]
[/table]


OPTIONALLY

If you want to be extremely helpful, you can color the table and text so that its associated with its award category (Town, Scum, Moderator, Misc, or Site). I will leave a key below, but the key thing to remember is that when coloring a table background, you do not need to put a # character in, where as with text color, you are required to put in a # character at the beginning of the hexcolor.
for example table=1d232d and color=#d0e4f8
These are the corresponding colors to each category
Mashtermind, Smash Mouth, and Mashterstroke
Background
: #1D232D
Text Color
: #D0E4F8

Best Social Game and Mish Mash Newbie
Background
: #16398a
Text Color
: #7ac8f5
This table is Blue on Blue by northsidegal


Submitting an anti-nomination

Sometimes a controversial nomination comes along. If you wish to register your dissent, the judges will take that into consideration. You may do so privately by sending a PM to the current custodian of the Mashies Nominations thread (PrivateI) with the following PM title: "Anti-nomination for [username] for [Award]". Please include detailed reasoning. Public or "empty" anti-noms will not be considered.

Declining a nomination

If you wish to take yourself out of consideration for an award, you may do so. Send a PM to the current custodians of the Mashies Nominations thread (PrivateI) with the following PM title: "Request to decline [Award]". Please include a detailed reason why you think this is not your year. This is request is subject to a vote within the Scummies Steering Committee - if a majority of the SSC thinks you deserve to be considered anyway, the nomination will stand.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:49 am

Post by Scummies »

Mashtermind
Date Added
Nominator
Nominee
Game & Link
Description
19/01/23 Ariel Irrelephant11 Point Salad The OP and the final results post are both very pretty and a good level of informative. Throughout the game, there's nice touches with the fun veggie emojis and also the cute quips and recipe links in response to game decisions. :]
20/01/23 Farren Malkon05 MafiaScum Idol Season 2 Creative judging takes a lot of work. Kudos to Malkon05, Mina, and toolenduso for putting themselves out there so that talented singers could put themselves out there.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am

Post by Scummies »

Best Social Game Nominations
Date Added
Nominator
Nominee
Game & Link
Description
18/1/23 thestatusquo Zoraster Adorable Critters Survivor I really enjoyed playing my first ever survivor game here on the forum and I was really happy zoraster ran a fun newbie friendly game I could jump right in. Having now moderated a game myself on this forum I know what kind of effort and commitment goes into it and I am really impressed with how smoothly it ran. In addition, I want to recognize zor for being willing to talk me through all sorts of things related to the setup of forums and permissions for LSGs. He did some videos from the set up of this game that were extremely valuable.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:51 am

Post by Scummies »

Smash Mouth
Date Added
Nominator
Nominee
Game & Link
Description
18/01/23 thestatusquo Mist7676 Survivor: Risk vs. Reward Mist was a dominant player in this game, a challenge beast that was able to actually use the other facets of their game to get to the end and actually win. They also embodied the theme of the game very nicely, making the calculated risk to go to firemaking themselves instead of taking the safe route of sending 2 other people. This game deserves our recognition.
19/01/23 Ariel Farren Zendo Questions, Codenames, Math and Logic Puzzles, Pandemic, Point Salad As you can see from my non-exhaustive links list, Farren was super involved in General Mish Mash this year, and I think he would be a great winner in this category this year. He is a committed player that absolutely fits the bill of someone that you want to be on the same player list as. In Zendo Questions, he got other people's rules right so many times that he ceded the opportunity to be the Oracle to give someone else a chance. As a newer player to Pandemic, he seemed to really embrace learning the ins and outs of the rules and helped lead the team to strategic victory. He even saved the people of Khartoum from disaster. He took the win in Point Salad by cleverly maximizing his carrots and lettuce and holding the tomatoes. He has an above-average winrate in Codenames to boot.
19/01/23 Ariel GeorgeBailey The Weakest Link 3, Chicken Scratch, January Movie Challenge, Pandemic GeorgeBailey has been a source of fun and excellence in Mish Mash this year! In Chicken Scratch, in the Thorberg case, GeorgeBailey drew the "brainy wedding" so well that his teammate understood the prompt perfectly! In the game's second iteration, he actively & effectively sleuthed for the botcher. He took on the January Movie Challenge with a quality approach that added to the atmosphere, if not quantity. He helped the team to victory after replacing into Pandemic by focusing on controlling the blue disease and brought levity with GIFs. On the LSG side, he started off TWL3 with a nostalgic bang by showing his Robot Unicorn Attack skills. He was ultimately sent to the jury for being a social threat.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:51 am

Post by Scummies »

Best Mish Mash Newbie
Date Added
Nominator
Nominee
Game & Link
Description
18/01/23 thestatusquo Marcistar Survivor: Risk vs. Reward Marci had an incredibly tough task, being the only true forum survivor newbie in a game full of stone cold killers. She not only held her own, but at times was a source of great entertainment and enjoyment for the spectators. I think she has a lot of potential and I look forward to watching her game grow.
19/01/23 Ariel Ethel The Weakest Link 3, Adorable Critter Survivor, Survivor: Risk v. Reward Ethel was a standout LSG player this year. She sparked joy in TWL3 with social prowess that incorporated artistic talent. She reached the Final 4 and was voted out for being a threat. She formed strong bonds that carried her far in her next two games this year, reaching the finals in both games and approaching the jury with flair.
19/01/23 Ariel Thestatusquo Adorable Critter Survivor Shea really dove into LSGs this year. He was a huge, active presence in Adorable Critter Survivor. Though some of his allies turned on poor Red Panda due to seeing him as a threat, he left the game with a pal for life in Sand Cat. Since then, he took the community by storm by doing most of the legwork on getting the next game modded. He also made a comeback to the wonderful of world of Mish Mash by participating in the 2022 NFL 3 Strikes Challenge. What a good sport!
19/01/23 Ariel Cat Scratch Fever Codenames Cat Scratch Fever was an active participant in all of this year's Codenames games, even taking up the mantle of modding toward the end of the year. While boasting a 50/50 win rate, she comes across as a fun team player who communicates well!
19/01/23 Vash Thestatusquo Survivor: Risk vs Reward Survivor: Adorable Critters Shea finally decided to play survivor this year. He started off with a very strong showing in Adorable Critter Survivor, placing 6th and being pegged as a huge social threat by the endgame. He was so enamored with playing the game he ended up running the next game, Survivor: Risk vs Reward. Not to mention he has put considerable effort into the logistics of the next Survivormeet. If for whatever reason he wouldn't qualify for Mish Mash Newbie, consider this a nom for Smash Mouth instead.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:52 am

Post by Scummies »

Mashterstroke
Date Added
Nominator
Nominee
Game & Link
Description
03/03/22
Xalxe Ariel The Weakest Link: The Weakest Link 3 in 3 minutes
there are no words I can use to describe this video. why did you do this. how long did it take. what inspired you. can I have your autograph.
18/01/23 thestatusquo flow trap Survivor: Risk vs Reward confessional The confessional in survivor is used in a lot of different ways, some good, some bad, some hilarious. I want to recognize the hilarity of flow trap's commitment to the bit in survivor: risk vs reward for continuing to update their confessional MONTHS after the game was over, with continued inanity and nonsense. I personally found it incredibly funny.
19/01/23 Vash mist, ambic, OGML Survivor: Risk vs Reward It was the final 9 of Survivor: Risk vs Reward. Janet Yellen, Furiosa and Michel Lotito were all aching to make a big move together, the only issue being that 3 votes is not a majority in 9 people. However Janet had a steal a vote, which could bring their vote total to 4, and Gumshoe was the target of the majority, who could not vote for themselves. Still this would bring the round to a tiebreaker, so Furiosa convinced Wendy Darling to vote for Gebura. As such the votes came back 2 vote Gebura, 3 votes Gumshoe, and 4 votes for Clara Oswald, who was considered to be a big threat to win the game.
Last edited by Scummies on Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:52 am

Post by Scummies »

Reserved.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:30 pm

Post by Xalxe »

Mashterstroke
03/03/22 Xalxe Ariel The Weakest Link: The Weakest Link 3 in 3 minutes there are no words I can use to describe this video. why did you do this. how long did it take. what inspired you. can I have your autograph.
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:59 pm

Post by Scummies »

After some consideration from the SSC, the deadline for nominations has been extended!

You now have until the end of Friday, January 20th, or (expired on 2023-01-20 23:59:59) for nominations!


There will not be further extensions so be absolutely sure to get your nominations in before then.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:31 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

Best Social Game
18/1/23 thestatusquo Zoraster Adorable Critters Survivor I really enjoyed playing my first ever survivor game here on the forum and I was really happy zoraster ran a fun newbie friendly game I could jump right in. Having now moderated a game myself on this forum I know what kind of effort and commitment goes into it and I am really impressed with how smoothly it ran. In addition, I want to recognize zor for being willing to talk me through all sorts of things related to the setup of forums and permissions for LSGs. He did some videos from the set up of this game that were extremely valuable.


Best Mish Mash Newbie
18/01/23 thestatusquo Marcistar Survivor: Risk vs. Reward Marci had an incredibly tough task, being the only true forum survivor newbie in a game full of stone cold killers. She not only held her own, but at times was a source of great entertainment and enjoyment for the spectators. I think she has a lot of potential and I look forward to watching her game grow.


Smash Mouth
18/01/23 thestatusquo Mist7676 Survivor: Risk vs. Reward Mist was a dominant player in this game, a challenge beast that was able to actually use the other facets of their game to get to the end and actually win. They also embodied the theme of the game very nicely, making the calculated risk to go to firemaking themselves instead of taking the safe route of sending 2 other people. This game deserves our recognition.
tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:44 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

MashterStroke
18/01/23 thestatusquo flow trap Survivor: Risk vs Reward confessional The confessional in survivor is used in a lot of different ways, some good, some bad, some hilarious. I want to recognize the hilarity of flow trap's commitment to the bit in survivor: risk vs reward for continuing to update their confessional MONTHS after the game was over, with continued inanity and nonsense. I personally found it incredibly funny.
tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:38 pm

Post by Ariel »

Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Ariel Ethel The Weakest Link 3, Adorable Critter Survivor, Survivor: Risk v. Reward Ethel was a standout LSG player this year. She sparked joy in TWL3 with social prowess that incorporated artistic talent. She reached the Final 4 and was voted out for being a threat. She formed strong bonds that carried her far in her next two games this year, reaching the finals in both games and approaching the jury with flair.


Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Ariel Thestatusquo Adorable Critter Survivor Shea really dove into LSGs this year. He was a huge, active presence in Adorable Critter Survivor. Though some of his allies turned on poor Red Panda due to seeing him as a threat, he left the game with a pal for life in Sand Cat. Since then, he took the community by storm by doing most of the legwork on getting the next game modded. He also made a comeback to the wonderful of world of Mish Mash by participating in the 2022 NFL 3 Strikes Challenge. What a good sport!
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:52 pm

Post by Ariel »

Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Ariel Cat Scratch Fever Codenames Cat Scratch Fever was an active participant in all of this year's Codenames games, even taking up the mantle of modding toward the end of the year. While boasting a 50/50 win rate, she comes across as a fun team player who communicates well!
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:31 pm

Post by Ariel »

Smash Mouth
19/01/23 Ariel Farren Zendo Questions, Codenames, Math and Logic Puzzles, Pandemic, Point Salad As you can see from my non-exhaustive links list, Farren was super involved in General Mish Mash this year, and I think he would be a great winner in this category this year. He is a committed player that absolutely fits the bill of someone that you want to be on the same player list as. In Zendo Questions, he got other people's rules right so many times that he ceded the opportunity to be the Oracle to give someone else a chance. As a newer player to Pandemic, he seemed to really embrace learning the ins and outs of the rules and helped lead the team to strategic victory. He even saved the people of Khartoum from disaster. He took the win in Point Salad by cleverly maximizing his carrots and lettuce and holding the tomatoes. He has an above-average winrate in Codenames to boot.
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Best Social Game
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:33 pm

Post by D3f3nd3r »

In post 12, Ariel wrote:
Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Ariel Thestatusquo Adorable Critter Survivor Shea really dove into LSGs this year. He was a huge, active presence in Adorable Critter Survivor. Though some of his allies turned on poor Red Panda due to seeing him as a threat, he left the game with a pal for life in Sand Cat. Since then, he's took the community by storm by doing most of the legwork on getting the next game modded. He also made a comeback to the wonderful of world of Mish Mash by participating in the 2022 NFL 3 Strikes Challenge. What a good sport!
2nd, modding a game immediately after playing your first game (and not having it crash and burn like my first game!) deserves tons of props. Great to have you here!
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:52 pm

Post by VashtaNeurotic »

Mashterstroke
19/01/23 Vash mist, ambic, OGML Survivor: Risk vs Reward It was the final 9 of Survivor: Risk vs Reward. Janet Yellen, Furiosa and Michel Lotito were all aching to make a big move together, the only issue being that 3 votes is not a majority in 9 people. However Janet had a steal a vote, which could bring their vote total to 4, and Gumshoe was the target of the majority, who could not vote for themselves. Still this would bring the round to a tiebreaker, so Furiosa convinced Wendy Darling to vote for Gebura. As such the votes came back 2 vote Gebura, 3 votes Gumshoe, and 4 votes for Clara Oswald, who was considered to be a big threat to win the game.


Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Vash Thestatusquo Survivor: Risk vs Reward Survivor: Adorable Critters Shea finally decided to play survivor this year. He started off with a very strong showing in Adorable Critter Survivor, placing 6th and being pegged as a huge social threat by the endgame. He was so enamored with playing the game he ended up running the next game, Survivor: Risk vs Reward. Not to mention he has put considerable effort into the logistics of the next Survivormeet. If for whatever reason he wouldn't qualify for Mish Mash Newbie, consider this a nom for Smash Mouth instead.
George Bailey
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:55 pm

Post by Ariel »

Smash Mouth
19/01/23 Ariel GeorgeBailey The Weakest Link 3, Chicken Scratch, January Movie Challenge, Pandemic GeorgeBailey has been a source of fun and excellence in Mish Mash this year! In Chicken Scratch, in the Thorberg case, GeorgeBailey drew the "brainy wedding" so well that his teammate understood the prompt perfectly! In the game's second iteration, he actively & effectively sleuthed for the botcher. He took on the January Movie Challenge with a quality approach that added to the atmosphere, if not quantity. He helped the team to victory after replacing into Pandemic by focusing on controlling the blue disease and brought levity with GIFs. On the LSG side, he started off TWL3 with a nostalgic bang by showing his Robot Unicorn Attack skills. He was ultimately sent to the jury for being a social threat.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:34 pm

Post by Ariel »

Mashtermind
19/01/23 Ariel Irrelephant11 Point Salad The OP and the final results post are both very pretty and a good level of informative. Throughout the game, there's nice touches with the fun veggie emojis and also the cute quips and recipe links in response to game decisions. :]
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:09 pm

Post by Malkon05 »

Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Ariel Ethel The Weakest Link 3, Adorable Critter Survivor, Survivor: Risk v. Reward Ethel was a standout LSG player this year. She sparked joy in TWL3 with social prowess that incorporated artistic talent. She reached the Final 4 and was voted out for being a threat. She formed strong bonds that carried her far in her next two games this year, reaching the finals in both games and approaching the jury with flair.


2nded
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:14 pm

Post by Malkon05 »

In post 8, Xalxe wrote:
Mashterstroke
03/03/22 Xalxe Ariel The Weakest Link: The Weakest Link 3 in 3 minutes there are no words I can use to describe this video. why did you do this. how long did it take. what inspired you. can I have your autograph.
Seconded
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:13 pm

Post by Farren »

Mashtermind
20/01/23 Farren Malkon05 MafiaScum Idol Season 2 Creative judging takes a lot of work. Kudos to Malkon05, Mina, and toolenduso for putting themselves out there so that talented singers could put themselves out there.
Mish-Mash Janitor

Please PM me for any Mish-Mash maintenance needs!
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:52 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

In post 21, Farren wrote:
Mashtermind
20/01/23 Farren Malkon05 MafiaScum Idol Season 2 Creative judging takes a lot of work. Kudos to Malkon05, Mina, and toolenduso for putting themselves out there so that talented singers could put themselves out there.
seconded
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:06 pm

Post by xofelf »

Thanks everybody for all the nominations, nominations are no longer accepted after this post. Will update the respective posts in a little.

The Mashies do need judges, so if you are interested send me a message. Thanks :)
Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
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xofelf
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:30 pm

Post by xofelf »

In post 12, Ariel wrote:
Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Ariel Thestatusquo Adorable Critter Survivor Shea really dove into LSGs this year. He was a huge, active presence in Adorable Critter Survivor. Though some of his allies turned on poor Red Panda due to seeing him as a threat, he left the game with a pal for life in Sand Cat. Since then, he took the community by storm by doing most of the legwork on getting the next game modded. He also made a comeback to the wonderful of world of Mish Mash by participating in the 2022 NFL 3 Strikes Challenge. What a good sport!
In post 16, VashtaNeurotic wrote:
Best Mish Mash Newbie
19/01/23 Vash Thestatusquo Survivor: Risk vs Reward Survivor: Adorable Critters Shea finally decided to play survivor this year. He started off with a very strong showing in Adorable Critter Survivor, placing 6th and being pegged as a huge social threat by the endgame. He was so enamored with playing the game he ended up running the next game, Survivor: Risk vs Reward. Not to mention he has put considerable effort into the logistics of the next Survivormeet. If for whatever reason he wouldn't qualify for Mish Mash Newbie, consider this a nom for Smash Mouth instead.
Yeah I agree with both of these, I think as far as mere active and lasting presence, Shea is by and far the newbie of 2022.
In post 14, Ariel wrote:
Smash Mouth
19/01/23 Ariel Farren Zendo Questions, Codenames, Math and Logic Puzzles, Pandemic, Point Salad As you can see from my non-exhaustive links list, Farren was super involved in General Mish Mash this year, and I think he would be a great winner in this category this year. He is a committed player that absolutely fits the bill of someone that you want to be on the same player list as. In Zendo Questions, he got other people's rules right so many times that he ceded the opportunity to be the Oracle to give someone else a chance. As a newer player to Pandemic, he seemed to really embrace learning the ins and outs of the rules and helped lead the team to strategic victory. He even saved the people of Khartoum from disaster. He took the win in Point Salad by cleverly maximizing his carrots and lettuce and holding the tomatoes. He has an above-average winrate in Codenames to boot.
2nd this one too. Farren is also one of the few people who regularly gives me updates about when his Mish Mash games end so I can archive them or if he needs a pin, and any time after I've done a Mish Mash clean-up if I've missed anything. He also makes sure if somebody needs PT access to mod their Mish Mash game, that they know to ask me also. Nobody gives Mish Mash as much consistent and regular attention these days as Farren does.
Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
Discord is faster than PMs or sitechat: xofelf#1697
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