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In post 55, Aeronaut wrote:Hm... I can't tell which one is scummy; Coming right in the thread and immediately wanting to talk about tokens, or being reserved and not wanting to talk about tokens.
I feel like it's the latter. The people who don't want to talk about it might feel that way because we could reasonably figure it out if we delved into it took much.
And the WIFOM begins.
Fan-fucking-tastic.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: BluebloodedToffee
Not against wagoning Cheery Dog either, but as of this 5 seconds this post wins the scum sweepstakes.
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Post #97 (isolation #5) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:24 am
Postby Zachrulez »
If my reason for voting for BBT isn't obvious to anyone else, I can go ahead and explain it. But right now I'd rather just leave him squirming for the reason.
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Post #190 (isolation #6) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:36 am
Postby Zachrulez »
Yeah, I'm fine with burning elk at the stake as well.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: theelkspeaks
The early game by BBT still rubs me the wrong way, but will concede to Reg that the points are less strong if it's BBT's playstyle.
I'd also vote Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, or Ankamius today, though I don't really have a reason for Cheery Dog beyond the admission of taking a scum token giving him a higher than normal chance of drawing scum.
Would say to varying levels of confidence that Psyche, Oversoul, Regfan, and Llamarble are town. Hoping to be able to say the same about CES, but that will probably take a reasonable amount of time.
Would love an explanation for your town reads on Psyche and Oversoul too.
The great thing is that unexplained town reads are probably more frightening to scum than anything, especially if they're on point.
Regfan basically got my reasoning in 161. Basically coming in so hard with a theory stance in regards to being anti-token I feel allows you to work your way into the game without really taking any position beyond that particular theory stance. Theory over alignment reading tends to take the game in a bleh direction.
I get the impression we have very different play styles (If my initial read is wrong.)
At this point Elk's only real position in this game was to decry an early bandwagon as the game was coming out of the RVS stage. I see very little from him beyond that. 'This wagon is suspicious, I'm going to get to the bottom of this.' Followed by nothing. That's the kind of empty that scumbags come from.
My initial impression of the TTH/Antihero swap is TTH swapped out of a scum role. Antihero's swipe at me seems more aimed to try to discredit me than have any actual suspicion behind it, and that's only strengthening my feeling on the matter.
In post 289, Regfan wrote:
It's part of the reason, yes. It's not the sole reason. P much where he's at is that he has a bunch of town reads and therefore is hunting via PoE (He doesn't have a strong scum-read and when he does he'll make it apparent) and there's nothing that he finds town of CDs himself so he's content to vote there. I know you're not a fan of meta but you're going to have to learn to accept that Llama taking statistics indicators of alignment such as tokens into account and hunting via PoE is how he plays, there's several of us that have brought this up too so at least trust me for now that Llamas not where you should be spending your time pushing. Also I wanted your read on Elk "bar the wagon speed" which I explained is a shitty reason to town-read him especially given his Psyche vote.
It's the base of his read. He wouldn't have a scum-read on CD had it not been for the initial token discussion. Also, voting scum via PoE on D1 is disgusting.
It's nothing to do with meta. Set-up spec (token spec) is scummy.
I gave you my read on Elk; I'm not town-reading him as you seem to be implying. His wagon was too quick, it's got people I am scum-reading on it so I want no part of it.
PoE is not scummy
Token spec is not scummy.
You should consider those two things and rethink your positions.
In post 323, Llamarble wrote:
I really like winning, so I don't ignore game mechanics. If you want to be a scumhunting purist and ignore what the setup / roles tell you, fine, but it will be hard for you to get a really high town winrate. Also about half my posts, including the reads list you found so offensive, include behavioral reads with explanations. Other posts include behavioral reads I did not bother to explain at the time. I have also provided behavioral discussion of both Regfan and Cheery. Claiming I am basing my play solely on tokens / am not scumhunting is so obviously wrong it's hard to understand how you got there.
I also like winning which is where my hatred for set-up spec stems from.
I specifically pointed out the reads that I had problems with - Regfan, Zach and CD.
Basing your play
solely
on tokens is not what I said. I said your scum-read was based on token usage, you have built upon this since (only slightly), but that doesn't alter the fact it's based on token usage.
Tell me why CD is scum without using token-talk.
If CD isn't obv town or towning it up here, why shouldn't we lynch him? The mere fact that he used a scum token gives him a higher than random chance of having drawn scum. As far as day one lynches go, that's not the worst lynch choice in the world.
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Post #343 (isolation #24) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:58 am
Postby Zachrulez »
Well I mean I think this game would be well served on just ignoring BBT for the most part unless he does something ridiculously scummy. I mean he's voting me right now for god sake. He clearly doesn't know what's going on.
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Post #347 (isolation #26) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:15 am
Postby Zachrulez »
Well I mean you think token discussion is scummy and that I'm scum probably for not fitting your model of what town play is supposed to be. Emphasis on YOUR model.
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Post #363 (isolation #34) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:04 pm
Postby Zachrulez »
Here let me post the logical thought process.
In post 354, theelkspeaks wrote:Specifically, the BBT/llama argument feels like 2 town players with contrasting opinions but both legitimately trying to get to the bottom of what the best way to lynch scum in this game is.
Since this wasn't clear to everyone, I'm saying that Zach's "Oh, so this is all I have to do to sell you that I'm town" attitude sounds like a scum indignant that it was that easy to get town-read by BBT and he still wasn't being.
In post 380, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:367 - Anti is town. TTH was my strongest town-read and I really, really, really don't see Anti replacing into a scum slot. However, his lurking is bothering me so it would be great if he could do something.
it's kinda beyond my control (rl stuff), but it'll pass soon
quick 'n dirty while i'm here:
looks like tth's scumreads were psyche, ika, and ces. psyche read i have no issue with. ika isn't in his usual scum lurkaderp mode so i may have an issue w/ that read. not sure haven't read his posts. ces' iso is snoozeworthy.
additionally, zack making a big deal about the swap is pretty smokescreen-y considering he's not really attempting to grasp our team dynamic or take our meta into consideration and just screaming "OMG THEREZ SWAPZ SCUMZMMMZMMZMZMZORZ" even if you did buy into tth being scum, there wasn't a need for a swap and hammering on that point repeatedly w/o actually trying to prove scum intent is actually kind of scummy.
i think bbt and llama are p townish. it looks like aero is a hot topic so i'll be looking into that too.
I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.
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Post #495 (isolation #40) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:33 pm
Postby Zachrulez »
In post 452, Llamarble wrote:Meh. TTH had reads and presence but scum can produce "this doesn't fit" easily enough. I get why CES 128 would annoy him but how does it look scummy? Overall I don't see a lot secondary towntells or a high level of engagement with the game.
All AH has done is say "I wouldn't replace into a scum slot" which has various problems and read TTH's ISO / comment on his opinions.
Would really appreciate somebody who has TTH / AH in their upper tier of towniness making sense of that for me.
I didn't really care for the "I wouldn't replace into a scum slot" coupled with the statement that he would basically be a conduit for TTH. If TTH coached Anti heavily enough, it would seem possible the dislike for scum could be overcome.
It's not the only possible reason for the swap, so I'll just let it go for now but just putting it out there that I don't like it.
Further I wish that Anti had more of a presence in this game so I could have things to actually try to read him off of other than that one point.
In post 475, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I like that Ankamius' scumhunting seems to mostly consist of one of his team mates having a theory that two obvtown people are scum together. I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least 2 scum in {Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, Ankamius}. The only tricksy decision now is who to lynch first since it would be such a waste if we mislynched D1.
Actually feel like this is a really good lynch slate to attempt to win the game outright with. (Spoiler, we should burn Aeronaut first.)
I also have lost interest in lynching elk for the forseeable future. If I haven't made it explicit enough already I don't really have any interest in lynching BBT anymore either.
In post 394, Zachrulez wrote:I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.
so you think it's unfair to substantiate the crux of your case...?
I don't like this at all. I think this is the type of behavior that Anti scum would do.
His play feels very much like he's just trying to scrape some posting by.
I don't care for the Aeronaut is an OK suspect but I hate the wagon stick. If you think we should be going in another direction, you should be pointing that out quite strongly at this point. Instead it just looks like anti is posturing for day 2.
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Post #588 (isolation #45) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:45 am
Postby Zachrulez »
In post 544, Llamarble wrote:What's wrong with those 4 posts Zach?
Can we get another Aero vote? They're not here, they're not going to be here, we're not actually doing anything right now. BBT / Elk would be my favorite votes to add.
I'm not really twitching off at the first 2 of the 4. It's more the final two.
In post 529, Llamarble wrote:Wat
If BBT and Elk joined, this might become the towniest wagons I've ever been part of...
my only townread on the wagon is regfan
everyone else is firmly in the bleh territory
That seems odd when he's the one there I'm least confident in being town, but I think that's mostly based on bop as as I expect him to be more obvtown than he had been.
For those interested, I've dropped the town lean I had on aero, the content just isn't coming to keep out there, this means he is now in the null range, I'm still not sure it's the best lynch though.
This basically conveniently drops a town read to pave the way for a lynch to happen while expressing doubts about the lynch. I HATE these kind of wishy washy stances regarding a major bandwagon.
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Post #627 (isolation #47) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am
Postby Zachrulez »
In post 616, Ankamius wrote:I have more shit to say and I'm still at work, so I can't say it yet.
I will consider any hammer before I get to this game a scumclaim. No exceptions.
You wouldn't be trying to set up suspicion for the inevitable IKA quickhammer would you?
UNVOTE:
You have till the end of tonight. What you have to say better be good.
In post 622, Ankamius wrote:I will be around in probably 4-5 hours, so be patient.
PEdit: that post took 5 minutes to write. If you think I have the time to read, then bring up all the the relevant stuff to refresh my memory, then give a response from that, then you're crazy.
Holding you to this.
Every intention of coming back to aeronaut wagon. If it managed to die I am going to be really annoyed.
Yea, I've been basically of zero help here, and it's really not my fault but I probably should have replaced out when the shit hit the fan. Either way, I'll be able to catch up tomorrow, as that will be the first day I'm home, at a computer.
Lynch me, don't lynch me, whatever,
but I ask that you give me until tomorrow night so that I can give some actual reads so that I can be not ~completely~ useless for this game and my team.
If you don't want to do that, whatever. I have a few gut reads from skimming through, but I cant really make any sort of real progress right now.
For I'm getting the impression that Regfan specifically is probably scum. Ika is town.
Will look into more people.
We are more than a week into this game now. You shouldn't need another day to just now have actual reads.
On that note, what does that say about the reads you've given up to now?
In post 585, Regfan wrote:Bolded makes absolutely no sense to me, fact they come back to back make it even worse. TTH's reads pretty much consist of stating a scum read on Ika, Elk and Psyche in Post 81 and then adding CES to the list in Post 135 so if the players you're wanting lynched/not trusting include Ika/Elk/Psyche/CES 3/4 of them are not on the wagon ie. Shouldn't that make it a good wagon for you? I'll rephrase since I don't feel like I'm being clear enough; you not liking the wagon doesn't add up since there are several different wagon combinations you'd say the same (or worse) about and nearly none you'd be able to claim to like. You using the wagon-dynamic to avoid getting on really reaaaaaally looks like wanting to dodge lynching a partner here and has p much entirely killed any inkling of a town read I still had on you.
assumption: everyone is either a townread or a scumread
not so
tth is saying that aero's chances of actually flipping scum are pretty much random and i'm inclined to agree with that
Would like you to state more explicitly what you don't like about the aeronaut wagon. Regfan's on point that the majority of your scumreads are not on the wagon. So what's your stance here? That the wagon is town driven on town?
What are your reads of the people on the wagon?
You're coasting along here and it's really bad and you really need to start taking some harder stances.
In post 585, Regfan wrote:Bolded makes absolutely no sense to me, fact they come back to back make it even worse. TTH's reads pretty much consist of stating a scum read on Ika, Elk and Psyche in Post 81 and then adding CES to the list in Post 135 so if the players you're wanting lynched/not trusting include Ika/Elk/Psyche/CES 3/4 of them are not on the wagon ie. Shouldn't that make it a good wagon for you? I'll rephrase since I don't feel like I'm being clear enough; you not liking the wagon doesn't add up since there are several different wagon combinations you'd say the same (or worse) about and nearly none you'd be able to claim to like. You using the wagon-dynamic to avoid getting on really reaaaaaally looks like wanting to dodge lynching a partner here and has p much entirely killed any inkling of a town read I still had on you.
assumption: everyone is either a townread or a scumread
not so
tth is saying that aero's chances of actually flipping scum are pretty much random and i'm inclined to agree with that
Would like you to state more explicitly what you don't like about the aeronaut wagon. Regfan's on point that the majority of your scumreads are not on the wagon. So what's your stance here? That the wagon is town driven on town?
What are your reads of the people on the wagon?
You're coasting along here and it's really bad and you really need to start taking some harder stances.
What did antihero post after I made this post?
Oh that's right! Nothing!
VOTE: Antihero
What's up with that CES vote oversoul? It would take a lot to convince me that he's a good lynch today.
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Post #676 (isolation #52) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:04 pm
Postby Zachrulez »
I'm more inclined to lynch off wagon. Especially considering the kill. I'm just feeling with where the wagon stalled at scum were likely sitting back off the wagon knowing what the flip was going to be, and it's also a happy bonus that I find the people off the wagon generally more suspicious than those on.
What do you think about the wagon itself? Do you think my premise is sound?
In post 676, Zachrulez wrote:I'm more inclined to lynch off wagon. Especially considering the kill. I'm just feeling with where the wagon stalled at scum were likely sitting back off the wagon knowing what the flip was going to be, and it's also a happy bonus that I find the people off the wagon generally more suspicious than those on.
That doesn't douns like normal scum behaviour to me, there would have to be at least one scum on the wagon already.
So what, are you saying you think more are on wagon? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.
In post 692, Zachrulez wrote:You just want to hammer period. Let's be real. It's not going to matter who gets run up.
not really? it was mostly for day 1 so we can move on. but you didnt answer my question, if i voted first would you vote too?
so zach why do you think llarm was killed?
I'm not particularly interested in lynching BBT. You've said he claimed scum more than once, but I don't see it.
I have no idea why Llamarble was killed. My theory of most of the scum being off wagon combines the factors of how scummy Aero looked, how the wagon formed, and where the nightkill was. (With the idea being that scum would tend to kill where they're not hiding.)