Why is Bulba scum?
Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Okay, expecting results soon.FormerFish wrote:Well shit, if I knew it was that easy I would have solved this game days ago...
[Or you could just look at the BulbaBane/TSO/endofD1Espe/mastinBanewagons and see the reasoning each person used for their vote and then use that as a basis to catch up?]
BecauseFormerFish wrote:You were all hot and heavy on my dick a few days ago about posting, and now there is a pressure wagon on me, why aren't you foaming at the mouth to be all up on that shit?
i) I've run out of foam. Blame mastin.
ii) I reread Marquis a little while ago and didn't get as much out of it.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Hey UT.
Can you start taking the game seriously so I can actually get a read on you?
Because like, jesus I'm feeling really tempted to sheep this wagon on you because of how garbage you're being at engaging literally anything in this game and if it weren't for the odds being so high that there are tryhard-as-fuck scum directing the game right now, I would be getting on board as well. [and I mean the fact that I don't want to be on another wagon without actually agreeing with it from here on out because holy fuck the VCAheads are probably just licking their chops at the idea of a UT townflip as an excuse to devour me whole]
So please, talk about why you think Gamma is apparently scummy. Or like, literally anything reads-wise.
Or replace out. Either would be appreciated.
Okay.Gamma wrote:I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push
Tell me what is potentially different between here and with elusive in DoA then? How absolutely confident are you that UT isn't just being a shitter as town?-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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How about you and Gamma fucking stop telling me what to do.Oversoul wrote:JUST VOTE HIM
You and Singer are trying to do everything you can not to vote UT
I'll vote for who I want when I fucking want to.
If you guys give me shit for it again I'll votepark wherever I fucking feel like it the rest of the game and you can eat shit. Kthnx?
Is this officially a 1v1 on the claim here?
You're not just fakecounterclaiming him because you don't believe him?-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Cheetory6
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If UT is actually Alquin then:
i) Lynching him provides scum with three kills tonight, one of which isn't Alquin.
ii) Not lynching him will likely bait scum into shooting him for us, wasting one of their kills for N2.
Option one is clearly awful.
And I don't know how anyone can be so absurdly confident that UT is lying without going back through his ISO with the claim in mind.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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It's not. I'm not even townreading him.CDB wrote:Cheetory, stop acting as if it's a straight choice between lynching townUT and not lynching townUT. I don't remember you townreading UT much of anything before.
I was going to make a post explaining my thoughts here but apparently I need to just get the hell out of the way.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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VOTE: Bulbazak
Looking through his ISO, I'm growing really uncomfortable with the conclusions he made from his VCA.
Primarily, that I'm seriously raising an eyebrow at him shelving Aronis. Aronis should be his second biggest scumread, but for some reason I'm what appears to be his second choice despite him saying that my thought processes seem easy to follow [implying I'm more likely to be town from what I can tell]. Aronis has been a consistent scumread for him ALL GAME and yet for some reason he's not in his immediate lynchpool?
I feel like the manner in which he went about organizing his scumreads just makes absolutely no sense. Why does there have to be one scum between vezok and I and not potentially three scum in {UT, singer, Aronis} in his eyes? To me, it feels like he's got some kind of agenda with the manner in which he organized these two lists.
My ordered preference atm would be Bulba>Aronis>DV>Formerfish.
CDB, Gamma, Titus and Shadow are all sitting in an uncomfortable null-place.
UT is hopefully a dead man walking.
Feeling decent-to-good about everyone else in the game. That's where my head's at right now.
I'm saying that Gamma saying he's absurdly confident in his UT-read feels similar to how he said he was absurdly confident in his elusive-read in DoA.TTH wrote:This feels off that you would ring that bell because this is nothing like elusive from DoA.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Is there any kind of case on fish besides him not saying much yet btw?
Genuinely curious.
Because there's a decent amount of substance that Marquis said before he replaced out that people could be talking about and fish has made some posts on the last few pages that everyone seems to be just kind of ignoring.
What do the people on his wagon think about that?-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Okay, seriously, why Formerfish over Aronis?
Like, at least make a case for why one is better than the other, because it's dumb that people are nakedvoting without trying to explain at all why they're voting where they're voting and it comes across like it's just a lurkercompromiselynch in which case I really don't get why we wouldn't be voting Aronis over fish who's at least started posting. Unless people think his catch-up is bad, in which case.. THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU SAY IN YOUR VOTE POST.
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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:c
Let me fight Titus first.
Cheetory6 wrote:Looking through his ISO, I'm growing really uncomfortable with the conclusions he made from his VCA.
Primarily, that I'm seriously raising an eyebrow at him shelving Aronis. Aronis should be his second biggest scumread, but for some reason I'm what appears to be his second choice despite him saying that my thought processes seem easy to follow [implying I'm more likely to be town from what I can tell]. Aronis has been a consistent scumread for him ALL GAME and yet for some reason he's not in his immediate lynchpool?
I feel like the manner in which he went about organizing his scumreads just makes absolutely no sense. Why does there have to be one scum between vezok and I and not potentially three scum in {UT, singer, Aronis} in his eyes? To me, it feels like he's got some kind of agenda with the manner in which he organized these two lists.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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I'd like to at least talk about/dive the links in this post by ffery about Aronis.In post 3836, fferyllt wrote:Nacho and I did some meta diving of Aronis yesterday.
Summary:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - town
- hostility is cyclical, and event driven. he is questioning people and scumhunting (nacho)
- tonewise his posts are similar to this game. his analysis and mindset both come off very town, and are similar to this game. (me)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - scum
- there is a very strong trend in his scum vs town play that come out in the above game. And this game is like his town play. he tends not to question others, and he works to get mislynches in before he goes down (but not always - he does sometimes whikteknight) (nacho)
- no analysis and lots of voting. he wk'd pisskop in this game as pisskop was run up. The only thing here that is even slightly parallel to our game is the way he was so sure TSO was town but didn't put up a real fight or argument about the lynch, just refused to participate (me)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another scum game (somewhat atypical because he was bussed to shit) (nacho)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
towngame - he replaced into this one. he opened with a reads list. he was a pr. he came off thoughtful and earnest compared to his scum games. his vote changes had good, game state driven reasons.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
another town game showing how much more analytical he is than when scum. there were also some examples of sarcasm about being scumread.
We both came away from the meta dive feeling that this is aronis' town game.
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I reread Aronis' iso before I started the metadive, and I noticed something that I saw recently before in another player. In real time, watching his posts hit the thread in context, I often felt they looked scummy. Reading them in iso, the posts give me a strong townvibe. This happened with town-Egg in a recent game. It could be an artifact of sporadic catch-ups or of phone posting or something. With Egg, anytime I felt the urge to lynch rising, I'd reread his iso and get another grip on my townread.
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This is a strong, thoughtful town given not just the player list but most of the teams. Reading through Aronis' games I've seen him mislynched by towns that looked pretty lazy in doing so.
It would be really cool if this town figures him out and doesn't default-mislynch him if he's town.
The bolded in particular makes me want to at least talk things out for a little bit before we quickwagon this shit.
Will be taking a look at the links in a little bit, but what did people make of Aronis being vocally off of the TSOwagon?
I'd also appreciate it if the people voting for him could take a glance at his ISO as well.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Oy gamma.
Mess off.
I'm in a good groove right now.
Stop trying to mess with it.
It's not that I don't get his VCA. It's that him coming to those conclusions feels like it's coming from an opportunistic place. Who in the heck scumreads someone all game, sees them on a bunch of wagons and then arbitrarily decides that they're not in the lynchpool today because someone else has voted more "town"? Bulba has openly admitted reasons why he thinks I'm more likely to be town than not. So for him to put me above Aronis feels sleazy.Titus wrote:but not getting his VCA is not scummy.-
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Like, I'm not denying that Bulba has been vocal about an on and off scumread on me, but for him to hedge his read on me so hard and have no redeeming features for why Aronis isn't a solid lynch today when he's been on his case and hasn't said anything about why he might be town just looks dishonest.-
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Someone overly relying on a new strategy instead of their scumhunting/how they feel about how scummy people are feels dishonest, especially since he's strong-townreading mastin. He could just use her VCAstuffs, but instead it feels like he's trying to justify the vote he's making rather than trying to figure out who scum is and trying to get them lynched.-
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Oh, also, if you were against lynching ffery's townreads [especially in the case of an implicit one on DV], why are you so much more okay with the idea of lynching Aronis who she was explicitly townreading? Can you talk about that?
P-Edit: I'm trying to engage things and figure shit out right now. I'm sure you can respect that I'm okay with talking about an Aroniswagon and alternatives for a little longer before committing.-
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Last few things she said about him.ffery wrote:Aronis - I already posted our thoughts on his meta. The way Copper took specific interest in TTH and TTH only ( which was to the point where he encouraged a push initially, and then backed off before the wagon began disintegrating) seemed pretty fucking town. scum!copper expecting TTH to townread him from that interaction alone is unlikely.
I really don't get how you can cherrypick and say she wasn't scumreading DV but that she also wasn't townreading Aronis.
:/
P-Edit: Okay.
That still doesn't address my concern there. Lol.
I'm not asking because I want to sheep ffery's reads.
I'm asking because I don't understand why you were applying them unfairly.-
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Cheetory6 MS Painter
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Looked at his last 5-6 games.
Searched vote, votecount, vote count and VCA and nothing meaningful came up that would suggest it's something that he ever uses.
Reading his ISO for his towngame Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia was like seeing an entirely different player playing mafia. Will really try to work on articulating what I feel is different between here and there and maybe see what some of his other scumgames look like in the next few days when I have some more free time and some more focus than right now.-
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Actually, I didn't look at HU2
There's still absolutely no VCA to be seen, but I will admit that the style with which he's posting in this game does seem more familiar. A lot more single-lined quote wall catch-up responses.
It's a lot different than him in HU at the very least. So, fair enough in that regard @Titus.-
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If I was townreading you, I would pull back this read, but I'm not, and you shouldn't be surprised that I'm not comforted by the fact that you're defending him like this.Titus wrote:HU2 was the only Bulba game.
You're oversimplying things but I tend to be on the same wavelength with Town Bulba and the posting style is similar. It's harder for me to quantify but yeah, you are starting to see where I feel your meta read is worng.
I also have no idea what you're talking about with the bolded.-
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Like, are you seriously implying that you think DVslot is town simply because it's been sitting off doing nothing all of this time?
How is that not at the very least super null?
Like, explain that shit in more detail because I keep feeling like you're bringing up the biggest bullshit reasons for defending this slot.-
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