Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

Cheetory6 · Sat May 09, 2015 4:28 am

@vezok

,
Why is Bulba scum?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 09, 2015 4:32 am

Would you say you're engaging in helping the town?
What exactly do you envision that would look like?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 09, 2015 5:02 am

FormerFish wrote:Well shit, if I knew it was that easy I would have solved this game days ago...

Okay, expecting results soon.
[Or you could just look at the BulbaBane/TSO/endofD1Espe/mastinBanewagons and see the reasoning each person used for their vote and then use that as a basis to catch up?]

FormerFish wrote:You were all hot and heavy on my dick a few days ago about posting, and now there is a pressure wagon on me, why aren't you foaming at the mouth to be all up on that shit?

Because
i) I've run out of foam. Blame mastin.
ii) I reread Marquis a little while ago and didn't get as much out of it.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 09, 2015 5:06 am

Like idfk fish do u want me to hold ur hand and teach you all of the wonders that is Signs and Void?
Is that what you want?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 09, 2015 9:43 am

I've started kind of caring again, if it makes you feel better?
Wanna talk about things?
Scumreads? Townreads?
Politics?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 09, 2015 9:47 am

Would you be down to help start a wagon on Aronis?
I want him to talk about his TSOtownread that he had and if he's being a jerklurk I would appreciate helping put pressure there.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 6:41 am

Hey UT.
Can you start taking the game seriously so I can actually get a read on you?
Because like, jesus I'm feeling really tempted to sheep this wagon on you because of how garbage you're being at engaging literally anything in this game and if it weren't for the odds being so high that there are tryhard-as-fuck scum directing the game right now, I would be getting on board as well. [and I mean the fact that I don't want to be on another wagon without actually agreeing with it from here on out because holy fuck the VCAheads are probably just licking their chops at the idea of a UT townflip as an excuse to devour me whole]
So please, talk about why you think Gamma is apparently scummy. Or like, literally anything reads-wise.
Or replace out. Either would be appreciated.

Gamma wrote:I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push

Okay.
Tell me what is potentially different between here and with elusive in DoA then? How absolutely confident are you that UT isn't just being a shitter as town?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:00 pm

Oversoul wrote:JUST VOTE HIM

You and Singer are trying to do everything you can not to vote UT

How about you and Gamma fucking stop telling me what to do.
I'll vote for who I want when I fucking want to.
If you guys give me shit for it again I'll votepark wherever I fucking feel like it the rest of the game and you can eat shit. Kthnx?

Is this officially a 1v1 on the claim here?
You're not just fakecounterclaiming him because you don't believe him?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:01 pm

Cause I'm actually fucking sick of gambit-towny bullshit.
If either of you are town fakeclaiming, I'm blacklisting you. This is me saying this upfront.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:08 pm

VOTE: UT

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:17 pm

Oversoul.
Please tell me that wasn't a dayvig.
Please.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:36 pm

Oversoul is scum.
Oh my fucking god.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:42 pm

Wait was it not a dayvig?
What the fuck is going on?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:48 pm

UNVOTE:
Oversoul needs to get back in here.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:48 pm

q.q
I got like so scared that like.. Oversoul was like a scumdayvig which could ended a day cycle.
Like the worst fucking sinking feeling.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 5:54 pm

Are you just going to ignore how much of a fucking heart attack you gave me?
What the fuck was that shit on the last page?

P-Edit:
OVERSOUL.
YOU FUCKING SUCK MAN.q.qq.q.q.q.q

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 6:09 pm

Shadow wrote:Can you stop spamming like a hyperactive candy kid for a minute Cheet?

Mafia makes me really anxious sometimes.
Sorry if it bothers you.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 10, 2015 6:40 pm

You think UT will live to D3 if he's actually town gamma?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 11, 2015 5:03 am

If UT is actually Alquin then:
i) Lynching him provides scum with three kills tonight, one of which isn't Alquin.
ii) Not lynching him will likely bait scum into shooting him for us, wasting one of their kills for N2.

Option one is clearly awful.
And I don't know how anyone can be so absurdly confident that UT is lying without going back through his ISO with the claim in mind.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 11, 2015 5:13 am

Titus.
If we lynch UT and he's town there's three kills that aren't UT tonight.
If we don't lynch UT and he's town, there's one kill that isn't UT tonight.
Tell me which you prefer.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 11, 2015 5:19 am

CDB wrote:Cheetory, stop acting as if it's a straight choice between lynching townUT and not lynching townUT. I don't remember you townreading UT much of anything before.

It's not. I'm not even townreading him.
I was going to make a post explaining my thoughts here but apparently I need to just get the hell out of the way.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 11, 2015 8:54 am

My condolences Titus.
Sorry to hear. Hope you're doing okay.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 2:26 am

VOTE: Bulbazak
Looking through his ISO, I'm growing really uncomfortable with the conclusions he made from his VCA.
Primarily, that I'm seriously raising an eyebrow at him shelving Aronis. Aronis should be his second biggest scumread, but for some reason I'm what appears to be his second choice despite him saying that my thought processes seem easy to follow [implying I'm more likely to be town from what I can tell]. Aronis has been a consistent scumread for him ALL GAME and yet for some reason he's not in his immediate lynchpool?

I feel like the manner in which he went about organizing his scumreads just makes absolutely no sense. Why does there have to be one scum between vezok and I and not potentially three scum in {UT, singer, Aronis} in his eyes? To me, it feels like he's got some kind of agenda with the manner in which he organized these two lists.

My ordered preference atm would be Bulba>Aronis>DV>Formerfish.
CDB, Gamma, Titus and Shadow are all sitting in an uncomfortable null-place.
UT is hopefully a dead man walking.

Feeling decent-to-good about everyone else in the game. That's where my head's at right now.

TTH wrote:This feels off that you would ring that bell because this is nothing like elusive from DoA.

I'm saying that Gamma saying he's absurdly confident in his UT-read feels similar to how he said he was absurdly confident in his elusive-read in DoA.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 2:27 am

Is there any kind of case on fish besides him not saying much yet btw?
Genuinely curious.
Because there's a decent amount of substance that Marquis said before he replaced out that people could be talking about and fish has made some posts on the last few pages that everyone seems to be just kind of ignoring.
What do the people on his wagon think about that?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 2:37 am

Do you think baned Bulbazak would target anyone who might seem like they might be a nightkill target?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 2:43 am

It could have been an investment?
Like, it's hard to know what scum's strategy is atm.
Maybe they've been hunting for Alquin up until this point and just checking to see if people are candles or not or something?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 2:45 am

I just think that of all reasons is a weak one for thinking that Bulba is town.
He could have been choosing a less obtown target on minor night 2 to cover up a scummier one that he detected on minor night 1 as well.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 2:53 am

CDB wrote:You should probably be voting for Aronis instead.

Is this the only reason you're townreading Bulba?
Also, why are you chastising me for not being on Aronis when you're also not on Aronis? >.>

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:02 am

Shouldn't be hard to figure out.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:05 am

Okay, seriously, why Formerfish over Aronis?
Like, at least make a case for why one is better than the other, because it's dumb that people are nakedvoting without trying to explain at all why they're voting where they're voting and it comes across like it's just a lurkercompromiselynch in which case I really don't get why we wouldn't be voting Aronis over fish who's at least started posting. Unless people think his catch-up is bad, in which case.. THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU SAY IN YOUR VOTE POST.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:11 am

Oy CDB.
If Bulba flips scum, then whoever he apparently targeted would probably be town.
Extra incentive, no?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:13 am

I made a case.
Fight me on it.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:18 am

:c
Let me fight Titus first.

Cheetory6 wrote:Looking through his ISO, I'm growing really uncomfortable with the conclusions he made from his VCA.
Primarily, that I'm seriously raising an eyebrow at him shelving Aronis. Aronis should be his second biggest scumread, but for some reason I'm what appears to be his second choice despite him saying that my thought processes seem easy to follow [implying I'm more likely to be town from what I can tell]. Aronis has been a consistent scumread for him ALL GAME and yet for some reason he's not in his immediate lynchpool?

I feel like the manner in which he went about organizing his scumreads just makes absolutely no sense. Why does there have to be one scum between vezok and I and not potentially three scum in {UT, singer, Aronis} in his eyes? To me, it feels like he's got some kind of agenda with the manner in which he organized these two lists.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:25 am

In post 3836, fferyllt wrote:Nacho and I did some meta diving of Aronis yesterday.

Summary:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - town

- hostility is cyclical, and event driven. he is questioning people and scumhunting (nacho)

- tonewise his posts are similar to this game. his analysis and mindset both come off very town, and are similar to this game. (me)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - scum

- there is a very strong trend in his scum vs town play that come out in the above game. And this game is like his town play. he tends not to question others, and he works to get mislynches in before he goes down (but not always - he does sometimes whikteknight) (nacho)

- no analysis and lots of voting. he wk'd pisskop in this game as pisskop was run up. The only thing here that is even slightly parallel to our game is the way he was so sure TSO was town but didn't put up a real fight or argument about the lynch, just refused to participate (me)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Another scum game (somewhat atypical because he was bussed to shit) (nacho)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

towngame - he replaced into this one. he opened with a reads list. he was a pr. he came off thoughtful and earnest compared to his scum games. his vote changes had good, game state driven reasons.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

another town game showing how much more analytical he is than when scum. there were also some examples of sarcasm about being scumread.

We both came away from the meta dive feeling that this is aronis' town game.

------------

I reread Aronis' iso before I started the metadive, and I noticed something that I saw recently before in another player. In real time, watching his posts hit the thread in context, I often felt they looked scummy. Reading them in iso, the posts give me a strong townvibe. This happened with town-Egg in a recent game. It could be an artifact of sporadic catch-ups or of phone posting or something. With Egg, anytime I felt the urge to lynch rising, I'd reread his iso and get another grip on my townread.

------------

This is a strong, thoughtful town given not just the player list but most of the teams. Reading through Aronis' games I've seen him mislynched by towns that looked pretty lazy in doing so.

It would be really cool if this town figures him out and doesn't default-mislynch him if he's town.

I'd like to at least talk about/dive the links in this post by ffery about Aronis.
The bolded in particular makes me want to at least talk things out for a little bit before we quickwagon this shit.
Will be taking a look at the links in a little bit, but what did people make of Aronis being vocally off of the TSOwagon?
I'd also appreciate it if the people voting for him could take a glance at his ISO as well.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:32 am

Oy gamma.
Mess off.
I'm in a good groove right now.
Stop trying to mess with it.

Titus wrote:but not getting his VCA is not scummy.

It's not that I don't get his VCA. It's that him coming to those conclusions feels like it's coming from an opportunistic place. Who in the heck scumreads someone all game, sees them on a bunch of wagons and then arbitrarily decides that they're not in the lynchpool today because someone else has voted more "town"? Bulba has openly admitted reasons why he thinks I'm more likely to be town than not. So for him to put me above Aronis feels sleazy.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:34 am

Like, I'm not denying that Bulba has been vocal about an on and off scumread on me, but for him to hedge his read on me so hard and have no redeeming features for why Aronis isn't a solid lynch today when he's been on his case and hasn't said anything about why he might be town just looks dishonest.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:44 am

It feels more like he's using VCA as an excuse to not push/vote for Aronis or even potentially UT/singer.
I'll do some homework to back up this assertion though. Gimme a little bit.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:50 am

Oversoul.
You're nakedvoting fish right now.
Are you joking me?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:52 am

I literally just asked people on that vote to explain it and all you do is just WK Aronis for no reason?
Do you think Aronis is town? Why or why not?
Why is fish more likely than Aronis to flip scum?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:01 am

If you think he siteflaked, why would that be alignment indicative?
How is that in any way related?
:/

Fish and Aronis both have ISOs.
Feel free to actually comment on the content in them instead of posturing about speed of wagon shiet and siteflake shiet because that's weak man.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:16 am

Homework done. Pretty confident that Bulba has never used VCA before this game.
For him to rely so heavily on it, especially with no scumflips feels increasingly dishonest to me.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:31 am

Oversoul wrote:Aronis looks to be the same way.

He towned it up earlygame in your eyes? How?
Why are you only noticing now how little Aronis has done?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:37 am

Someone overly relying on a new strategy instead of their scumhunting/how they feel about how scummy people are feels dishonest, especially since he's strong-townreading mastin. He could just use her VCAstuffs, but instead it feels like he's trying to justify the vote he's making rather than trying to figure out who scum is and trying to get them lynched.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:41 am

Oh, also, if you were against lynching ffery's townreads [especially in the case of an implicit one on DV], why are you so much more okay with the idea of lynching Aronis who she was explicitly townreading? Can you talk about that?

P-Edit: I'm trying to engage things and figure shit out right now. I'm sure you can respect that I'm okay with talking about an Aroniswagon and alternatives for a little longer before committing.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:46 am

ffery wrote:TownTownTown

Oversoul, Gammagooey, ActionDan, Cheetory

Town

Shadoweh, Titus, Singer, GiF, Vezok,
Aronis
, FormerFish

Kinda Town:

Bulbazak, CDB, Mastin, FormerFish

Leftovers:

DV, Espeonage, tth, UT

Shortly after that big post that I linked by her.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 4:50 am

ffery wrote:Aronis - I already posted our thoughts on his meta. The way Copper took specific interest in TTH and TTH only ( which was to the point where he encouraged a push initially, and then backed off before the wagon began disintegrating) seemed pretty fucking town. scum!copper expecting TTH to townread him from that interaction alone is unlikely.

Last few things she said about him.
I really don't get how you can cherrypick and say she wasn't scumreading DV but that she also wasn't townreading Aronis.
:/

P-Edit: Okay.
That still doesn't address my concern there. Lol.
I'm not asking because I want to sheep ffery's reads.
I'm asking because I don't understand why you were applying them unfairly.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 5:03 am

@Titus, gotcha.
Well, I'm willing to wait a day to see if Aronis/Bulba show up and respond to shit.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 5:46 am

Aronis, what were your reasons for townreading TSO?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 9:28 am

Looked at his last 5-6 games.
Searched vote, votecount, vote count and VCA and nothing meaningful came up that would suggest it's something that he ever uses.
Reading his ISO for his towngame Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia was like seeing an entirely different player playing mafia. Will really try to work on articulating what I feel is different between here and there and maybe see what some of his other scumgames look like in the next few days when I have some more free time and some more focus than right now.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 9:48 am

You think catchups == townBulba?
Like, I'll do direct comparisons at some point. There are differences in the manner in which he chooses to engage people/voting here than in that game, you can trust me on that at the very least.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 10:04 am

Actually, I didn't look at HU2

There's still absolutely no VCA to be seen, but I will admit that the style with which he's posting in this game does seem more familiar. A lot more single-lined quote wall catch-up responses.
It's a lot different than him in HU at the very least. So, fair enough in that regard @Titus.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 10:10 am

Titus wrote:
HU2 was the only Bulba game.

You're oversimplying things but I tend to be on the same wavelength with Town Bulba and the posting style is similar. It's harder for me to quantify but yeah, you are starting to see where I feel your meta read is worng.

If I was townreading you, I would pull back this read, but I'm not, and you shouldn't be surprised that I'm not comforted by the fact that you're defending him like this.
I also have no idea what you're talking about with the bolded.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 1:45 pm

UT we can talk about your fringe reads after we deal with this first lynch.
Who do you think is more likely to be scum between Aronis and Bulba? Gogo.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 1:47 pm

But TTH what if they're both scum.
What if.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 12, 2015 3:10 pm

Hey singer.
Maybe you should like take a break for tonight?
I know I found it hard to concentrate on things in the game when I was feeling bitter/burnt out about things. It might clear your mind and make you feel a little better?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 4:00 pm

Shadoweh wrote:I don't have the same brain damage

Let's not do this.
Please.

I'm here but I'm honestly feeling kind of bummed. Might stick to reading for tonight because I feel like my anxious side is coming out again.
If people have questions, lay 'em on me.

VOTE: 4nxiety
For now at least.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 4:28 pm

I'm voting for who I feel is most likely going to flip scum right now.
I also don't understand whatever wagon analysis you're expecting me to be following right now?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 4:47 pm

So you think scum never sidelines? :/

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 4:51 pm

Like, are you seriously implying that you think DVslot is town simply because it's been sitting off doing nothing all of this time?
How is that not at the very least super null?
Like, explain that shit in more detail because I keep feeling like you're bringing up the biggest bullshit reasons for defending this slot.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 4:55 pm

Do you think there's four scum on Bulba's wagon?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:02 pm

Titus is trying to tell me that I shouldn't be looking at 4nx because he wasn't voting for Bulba.
If all of the scum aren't on the Bulba wagon then this is a shit reason for me to not be looking at 4nx.
Feel free to ask me what I mean before shitslinging at me though.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:05 pm

Yeah, he could have done that.
He also could have just sat back and watched the fireworks.
I do that shit all the time as scum. Not all scum is hyper-proactive and trying to assert their influence. Sometimes it's arguably more effective to sit back and let people make their own fuck-ups.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:10 pm

And if Aronis is town then 4nx can wave his hands around saying "wow look at all of these townwagons that I haven't voted for ever I'm so town wow".
I mean for fuck's sake 3-4 players in this game are entirely basing how they're analyzing this game on VCA.
If I were scum, one of the main things I would be playing around in a game with VCAcentric players would be VCA. Sitting off wagons or stacking wagons would be the first thing I would be aiming to do to fuck with town's ability to read me.
Like, whatever, don't believe me, I'm not trying to prove I'm town right now.
I'm just saying that VCA only works so long as people aren't trying to play around it and if either you or mastin is town then there's no reason for scum in a tryhard scenario like team mafia not to try and fuck with that kind of stuff.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:11 pm

I'm not trying to argue that there isn't 1-2 active scum influencing the gamestate, but you can be sure that between FF and 4nx or someone else nondescript like Shadow there's a decent chance of at least one scum trying to fly completely under the radar by not being on anything.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:15 pm

hito wrote:(2) Not Voting: 4nxi3ty,
Formerfish
(Oversoul)

With votes like this I can't imagine why.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:22 pm

You're not voting for anyone now either.
Given that I have no idea who you're townreading or scumreading off the top of my head and you've come in to complain about people yet again rather than take a hardstance on literally anything, yes, you're flying under the radar.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:29 pm

Titus wrote:The fact you're willing to keep doing the same thing, despite it not working doesn't sit well with me.

What exactly is it that I'm doing over and over again that isn't working and why is that scummy?
If you're trying to imply that me continuing to use my preferred MO [which usually works decently well] is scummy? I shade at you for the fact that you're trying to appease people over and over again and it's clearly not working either? Should I call you scum for that? Like, I'm literally voting how I feel I should be voting right now. You can fucking shade at me all you want, but this is how I play the game. I vote for who I want to lynch at the time provided that there isn't someone who I really want to sheep, it isn't RVS/earlyD1 and there isn't a deadline crunch. I honestly think it's fucking ridiculous that anyone would play any other way, but what do I know.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:32 pm

Should I shade at you*

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:38 pm

I'm not insisting anything?
I'm voting for one person. Anyone can vote anyone they want holy fuck Titus I'm not in the fucking mood for you to be calling me 'insane' just because you can't be fucked to ever try to figure anything out that I'm saying before constantly rushing to oppose it.

You were being appeasy by saying that it should be between Bulba and Aronis. You were being appeasy by saying that TTH should pick the next two wagons or whatever the fuck you said before.
You're asking me to be appeasy by not pushing sidewagons.
Like jesus fucking christ Titus.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:39 pm

Like if you want me to consider something else, then you could say fucking something like I don't know
"HI CHEETORY MY BUDDY MY FRIEND COULD YOU TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT SHADOW ATM?"
And then I might reply
"HI TITUS MY BUDDY MY FRIEND I WILL LOOK AT HER TOMORROW BECAUSE ATM I FEEL LIKE BASHING MY HEAD AGAINST A WALL."
What a fun hypothetical scenario!
Much better than "I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I'M GOING TO GET ANGRY ABOUT IT FOR SOME REASON."

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:44 pm

FF wrote:Something that I noticed about Dan is that he is pushing hard for people to vote for people who end up being town

Who is he pushing hard for who's ended up being town?

@Titus. Kgreatthankyoutonightisnotagoodnight.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 5:58 pm

His strongest push for a long time now has been Espeonage.
What's your read on him?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 10:57 pm

And why can't that wagon be 4nx? I'm sure mastin will think that I'm bussing if he ends up flipping scum, but I'm more inclined to sheep how confident she is on this read/feeling like the slot is intentionally sidelining shit/how passive the slot has been/trusting semi-PoE than I am to sheep a wagon on a full-on lurker, especially when the case on him is essentially "no town would play like this" which is demonstrably just not true given that his meta would indicate otherwise.

For the record, I'm not going to vote Titus.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:06 pm

vezok, TTH, mastin, Oversoul are strongest townreads. If one of them is snowing me then I don't care and we're probably fucked.
UT/CDB are untouchable atm.
Espeonage is probably town, but I might be putting too much faith in ~reasons for him being town.
Singer is leaning town, but I might be putting too much faith in vezok's reasons for her being town, given that it wouldn't shock me that her team might overplay Empire's known hatred of playing scum for townpoints in the larger game.
Shadow and AD are flatly null. AD was leaning town for me earlier because of how strongly he was pushing Espeonage as scum, but I'm starting to feel like he could just be using it as a crutch.
Gamma's making me paranoid. I don't really want to lynch him though.
That essentially leaves Aronis, 4nx and Formerfish.
I want to lynch 4nx the most out of this group.

This group also really sucks and I'm aware of this.
I still don't really want to lynch outside of it short of a case which is better than "this person is lurky/coasting!"

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:10 pm

Again, you're acting as if DV has to be the one orchestrating it.
I think DVslot has a good chance of flipping scum and if it hopefully does then we get information as to WHO on the bulba wagon is more likely to be scum.
Savvy?
Or no?
Again, you're hard townreading mastin, right? Why are you not willing to cooperate on her biggest scumread?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:16 pm

hito wrote:(9) Bulbazak: TellTaleHeart, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, Gammagooey, Aronis, Untrod Tripod, ChannelDelibird, Oversoul, singersigner [Lynch!]
(4) Aronis: Titus, ActionDan, Espeonage, Shadoweh
(1) 4nxi3ty: mastin2
(1) vezokpiraka: Bulbazak

(2) Not Voting: 4nxi3ty, Formerfish

I'm willing to follow that there are probably around two scum on the Bulba wagon.
Maybe three, but I'm guessing likely two because I think scum would be more comfortable in general sidelining all of that shit that happened.
At the very least, 1-2 scum weren't on that wagon. That means that there's probably 1-2 scum in 4nx, formerfish, you, mastin, AD or Shadow.
Tell me I'm fucking crazy for thinking 4nx might be scum here just because Bulbawagon is a thing.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:17 pm

Implying that DV couldn't have just had a shitty scumgame?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:19 pm

Like, what even is the case on Aronis?
That he's playing too shit to be town?
Because his townISOs from other games are similarly lurkish.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:21 pm

I just really don't get how you can call scum4nxread complete garbage because of lack of content while championing an Aronislynch. Like, seriously? Unless I'm missing something that's a horrendously hypocritical thing to be pushing.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:23 pm

What seven people?

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:29 pm

Also, I'm not saying I won't consider it, I just am not going to switch just because you tell me to.
I appreciate you explaining your read there in a level way vezok. I'll make some time to ISOdive Aronis again today and see how I feel.

P-Edit: I mean, my kneejerk reaction is that I'm more willing to be apologetic as scum.

PP-Edit: I'm pretty sure his team wouldn't be screaming at him to replace out. I'm pretty sure his team would be helping him more than they have here if he is town.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:31 pm

Also, if Espe wants me to feel like he's not just completely posturing with these continual reach-outs to me, he should actually follow through with them.

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:45 pm

Nah girl.

P-Edit: I haven't seen anything from STD or anything particularly meaningful from Ceph. I figure DV would probably be asking them more for help and potentially getting frustrated about it in thread if they weren't being able to follow through.
Maybe I'm just channeling my expectations there, but I definitely at the very least would not expect STD, Ceph and BPC of all people to be like "FUCK U DV WHY ARENT U TRYHARDING IN TM GTFO"

Cheetory6 · Wed May 13, 2015 11:53 pm

But I'm saying that 3 of the people you're expecting to bitch at him just wouldn't be..
Like, they definitely wouldn't do that.
:/

I also feel like this conversation isn't super important and I feel like you're continually stretching to justify this read Titus. Like, I could get you calling him null and saying "I'm not convinced but fair enough" but being CONVINCED that he's town with this kind of evidence? That's just weird. And no, I'm not saying it's scummy weird. I'm just not understanding where you're coming from at all.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 14, 2015 7:11 am

@singer, my earlygame reads haven't been great and Titus has been continually behaving in a manner that was getting her scumread and would likely lead to her being lynched.
I'm trusting a few people's read on her enough to say that I don't want to lynch Titus today and especially not so with the amount of random momentum that surged up for her lynch today.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 14, 2015 10:35 am

DV's not happening because question marks.
All of the question marks.
Mastin yell at Titus about why her reasons for defending DV are bad.
And then you can call me scum and wag your finger at me or whatever.
If you don't engage anyone and just keep saying that people are scum without trying to push it nothing is going to happen.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 14, 2015 11:03 am

I don't have a hard on for 4nx. I have some strong townreads atm, but nothing strong in terms of scumreads.
I'm more just baffled that you feel confident that you can hard-defend DVslot when it's relatively a blank-slate.
The best way I can put it, is that I feel like townAronis is just as likely as scumAronis to vote Bulba for survivalism and ISOdiving Aronis in this game vs other games didn't show much of a difference in playstyle. You're painting him as being blatantly scummy for a lack of content, where his meta would indicate that this is just how he plays. He could be scum for it, but I don't see it as being particularly indicative one way or the other.

In my experience, when the game settles into a comfortable place for scum, they tend to spread their votes out. I feel like that happened here and there are too many variable players on the Bulbawagon for me to feel confident in saying Aronis is scum while UT/CDB are able to hide behind PRclaims and potentially be skewing the wagon there. I think hunting off Bulbawagon is more likely to yield scum. 4nx is my best bet atm for who the scum off the wagon would be.

I need to stop being lazy and read back/organize my thoughts on him though. That will probably come tomorrow night because I'm currently getting ready to move.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 14, 2015 12:30 pm

Titus are you joking.
You're willing to vote off of the Bulba wagon but only as long as it isn't DVslot?
You've expressed that you'd at least consider Shadow and Espe now. Like.
Gahhhhhhhhhhhh.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 15, 2015 8:34 am

Titus wrote:Aronis is not scumhunting or giving reasons for his reads

Does Aronis not do this as town?

Cheetory6 · Fri May 15, 2015 9:13 am

Cheetory6 wrote:My read on Espeonage is kind of hard to explain atm. A combination of a gut feeling that the lynch would have been more likely to go through if he was scum that I can't really put into words and the fact that I'm still alive atm.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 16, 2015 1:53 am

The leadery people in this game are fucking sucking.
I seriously wish ffery was still in the game on the merit that at least she fucking tried.
I don't know if you're all town, but Gamma, mastin, TTH, oversoul and even maybe CDB/UT need to get their fucking head in the game and start actually putting some weight into this game.

We have two more lynches realistically at this point.
Short of some kind of nightmiracle or a really lucky lynch today, we're basically fucked for the rest of this game.
Can we do better than "OH THIS WAGON HAS GOOD PEOPLE ON IT WHO ARE NAKED VOTING FOR SOMEONE".
I'm being guilty of this, but like jesus guys this game is so devoid of effort atm.
Like, I'm legitimately starting to look at everyone funny because there's no fucking way that scum aren't laughing their asses off at this gamestate right now. It wouldn't shock me at all if both 4nx and Aronis were both town and scum were capitalizing on our shitty apathy for an easy win.

Aroniscase boils down to "oh man he's not posting much and isn't scumhunting much" which is historically never the sort of shit that scum pushes mislynches on, right?
4nxcase boils down to "mastin thinks he's scum [which is probably a good reason] but also DV was apologetic too much and 4nx's catchup is self-centric!" which is so okay it makes me want to flop over and bury my head in a pillow.

This game is becoming a fucking chore. Someone with some kind of energy put some kind of actual fucking effort into convincing me of something in this game.

I would [and probably will once I'm done moving today], but I feel like nobody gives a shit about anything I've put effort into and it's killing my drive to want to try in this game. When I make a case on someone and maybe like 1-2 things in it will get talked about and then everyone will just shrug and move on to sheep a vote made by someone with no reasoning on it. There's probably too much content in this game for everyone to look at, but we need to be doing better than how we're doing right now.
Maybe I'm being panicky for nothing and both Aronis and 4nx are scum and we're about to hit the jackpot, but I have a hard time feeling okay when my lynchpool is three lurkers and everyone is just shrugging, not thinking critically about whether either of them are actually scum or not and voting for whoever their friend tells them to.
Bleh.
The people who are least guilty of this are singer and Titus, given their mutual-tunnel and given the lack of willingness to deal with them by just about everyone I will seriously be shocked if one of them isn't right and the other is just hoping we don't deal with them before endgame.
I'm gonna try my damn hardest to sort through and actually really think about Aronis, DV/4nx and two or three other people before the end of this cycle. Can literally anyone else promise me the same level of effort?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 16, 2015 9:12 am

Hey guys what if two people target 4nx?
Does his sign change twice?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 16, 2015 9:13 am

Also, serious doubts that if the role was real and this was town4nx that he wouldn't have claimed what his signs changed to.
That's horrendously anti-town.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 16, 2015 9:21 am

Yeah I'm not in a rush.
Just saying.
This claim is pretty garbage.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 16, 2015 9:22 am

Also, sorry if I came across as dickish in my last post.
I've been dealing with a lot of stress and haven't had the time to put some real effort into this game and it's been bothering me that we're this close to losing if we don't off scum today.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 5:57 am

UT wrote:considering that scum get multiple kill attempts a night, I would expect there to be more bulletproof variant roles than usual

There's also only four scum.
Kill-potential is high only as long as we suck at finding scum.
If we lynch two scum, then Alquin being alive isn't even an issue anymore if I'm not mistaken.
Point being, town having three bulletproof-ish roles sounds too high and 4nx's role seems like an overthought fake-copy of Bulba's role with some added in incentives of "I am able to help us find Viktor!" to try and make us want to keep 4nx alive.
Like, the role itself just seems like it's more of an attempt to convince people that we should keep him alive than it does an actual role that would actually exist in this game. It's too convoluted and the aspects of the role just seem like they have no synergy in a way that makes no sense.

I'd like to hear mastin chime in on what she thinks of the claim though.
Doing some reading for the next little while.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 6:16 am

We have two days.
You really think you're gonna get the support for a Gamma wagon in two days?
Like, I'm going to read your case and take it seriously, but it's like.. realistically do you actually think this town is cohesive enough to get a wagon together on someone that like half of the playerbase is townreading? Gamma might be scum. I don't think he's getting lynched today.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 6:19 am

I am reading DV/4nxISO, then AronisISO and then your case.
I'm not going to blindvote Gamma just because you're being upset at me.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 7:11 am

Oh jesus.
:/

DV wrote:Regarding Gamma's proposal, I've decided that I disagree and don't really want to explain why.

This was from D1 in response to Gamma saying that we should massclaim traces to figure out who Viktor is.
This kind of looks like a crumb, which makes me feel really really confused. q.q
If DVslot is scum, was he planning on claiming this role since like mid-D1?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 7:15 am

You think that if 4nx is scum that his role is "figure out who Viktor is"?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 7:32 am

Oversoul wrote:I think this may be "I don't want people to claim traces because that outs power roles" resistance.

I suppose that's true, it does also kind of look like it could be him crumbing though. I was probably dumb for thinking that DV would be planning a crumb like this from ages ago if he was scum, but I'm just kind of trying to understand the hypothetical scenario of how townDV with that role would be reacting in that situation and trying to understand if it would make more or less sense for him to take this kind of stance with that role.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 9:35 am

4nx wrote:I probly won't be around much the rest of this weekend so I'm gonna go ahead and claim in case people just vote me in the next two days.

Not that I want to defend him all that much or anything, but it's a misrep to say that he just vanished without a reason.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 2:51 pm

I have a hard time seeing RNG playing a role in role mechanics.
I'm also probably being dumb for wanting to call 4nx scum because of that.

DVISO didn't really yield much.
4nxISO yielded less.

mastin or TTH should come in and like.. fix how much I don't know what I want to do right now.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 17, 2015 6:45 pm

It's okay.
If it means anything, I think you're pretty neat.
Just don't be scum.
Otherwise I'll be sad at my townreading abilities.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 4:13 am

Do you think what is essentially a ninja is more likely to come from town or scum Titus?
Because that's the one part about 4nx's claim that I really believe to be true.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 4:18 am

Titus wrote:I don't care for pure meta anyway. He is not aggressive as a personality but he was willing to at least fake engage Singer when more people were alive. Now he's coasting.

Do you think other people aren't coasting out this game either?
Is coasting inherently scummy? Like, I'll agree him not being here makes me frustrated and makes me want to vote for him, but does that necessarily make him scum?

Titus wrote:Besides, if we excuse Aronis because he's always anti-town why would scum ever bus?

I don't know what you're trying to say here.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 4:20 am

Titus wrote:Aronis is not scumhunting or giving reasons for his reads. It's near impossible to get a wagon on him.

i) Why does scumAronis not give reasons for his reads? Doesn't that draw attention to yourself hard by doing that? Like, you want to say that "DVscum is better than that" which makes me want to say that "couldn't Aronisscum be better than that too"?
ii) It could be that some people have been saying that Aronis is TSO 2.0? Which I don't necessarily agree with entirely because I think TSO was at least more protown -.-

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 4:33 am

i) It also makes it harder for PRs to do literally anything to him, which has clear scum utility as a role.
ii) We have two bulletproofclaims on the table. You really think three makes sense?
iii) It would give us conftown if 4nx outted Viktor?
Are you serious Titus?
You gave me shit about TTH being conftown for better reasons than that.
iv) He could have that actual role as scum? Why fakeclaim when if people detect and target him and get fails he's going to look suspicious?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 4:45 am

iii) You went on a huge tirade earlier this game about how "never conftown" despite however much evidence would indicate that would be the case.
Someone bussing Viktor is more likely 100% confirmed town than someone who's practically confirmed by the setup?
Like, I'm seriously having a hard time understanding how you're applying so many things inconsistently to this slot Titus.
I'm leaning that you're not scum with 4nx, but like, sometimes it's really hard to believe that you're actually going against tons of shit you've said earlier this game just to defend him.
iv) I agree about Viktor cop. That's also why I feel the claim is safe.
And oh I don't know maybe because of the no results mechanic in this game? 4nx can safely target people if townPRs detect him before because they'll use the wrong sign, get no result and then go "oh I guess he targeted no one".
Hardcore scum utility.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 5:01 am

Who's the scumteam in your eyes, Titus?
Aronis, singer and _____ and _____?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 5:13 am

My current pool is something along the lines of 4nx, one of you/singer, 1-2 of Gamma/UT/CDB and Aronis/FF maybe?
Which isn't the best pool, but like, my issue is that I've got a lot of townreads atm.
Which means I'm either eating shit hard this game wrt my townreads or this game is going to boil down to PoE. I want to believe that the latter is the case, but I'm probably being idealistic and my list has too many easy names.
Bleh.
I wish it was D3 already.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 5:37 am

Oversoul wrote:Cheet, if Aronis is also scum, what do you think of the Anx wagon then?

Based on composition?

hito wrote:Aronis: Shadoweh, ChannelDelibird, ActionDan, 4nxiety, Formerfish (Titus)

hito wrote:4nxi3ty: Cheetory6, TellTaleHeart, Gammagooey, singersigner, Espeonage, vezokpiraka [L-3]

I think if both of them are scum then there would be one scum sitting on both wagons. That's probably what I would do as scum.

P-Edit: Oversoul isn't going to get lynched.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 6:51 am

Why have you been detecting then Titus?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 6:52 am

Ughhhh.
Titus you know how much that looks like a fakeclaim based on informed townie in my game, right? -.-

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 6:55 am

Okay, speak more clearly about how that clears 4nx.
Because I don't get where you're getting that from.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 6:56 am

Like why is it more likely that you would have the equivalent of "there is a miller in this game" rather than "there is a ninja in this game"?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:00 am

Why would he not add that as part of his claim?
If people target him and get mismatched results with what they had detected or whatever then he would be screwed. Being open about what he is just makes it less possible for us to pin him down.

Why couldn't someone be bussing 4nx right now?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:02 am

Why is it moonlogicky?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:05 am

gamma wrote:just also think that her conclusions regarding 4nx are wrong.

Then say more things and actually engage the gamestate.
I'm getting mad at the fact that voting you was probably the right call.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:07 am

What would you expect the gamestate to be like right now if both Aronis and 4nx were scum?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:14 am

I would think Aronis is likely scum.
i) A scum would likely be on Aronis. Probably FF.
ii) A scum would be on 4nx. Probably Gamma.
iii) And then total variable on last scum. I have no idea who that would be.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:15 am

Like, I want to say there's a scum between you and singer because that shit doesn't feel like townVtown at all.
So I guess that'd be iii)?

P-Edit: Then yell at Titus more about it? It feels a lot like you're just kind of handwaving instead of engaging her at all. Which doesn't feel town at all.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:34 am

You only get to complain about me whining if you also stop whining.
K?

Who's your best bet for the full scumteam?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:43 am

So singer and Titus are both town then?
Also, you know that I can get caught up mechanics details for scumreads in mafia.
Unless you're pretending that my strong scumread on Seraphim based on his bulletproof stuff in DoA isn't a thing?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 9:56 am

Can we at least get a claim from him before we lynch?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 10:01 am

We still have a day and the wagons are both at like L-2/L-1.
I think we can manage with waiting a little while longer.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 11:30 am

Are you going to explain it more?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 2:19 pm

I can't tell if I'd be happier at Aronis flipping scum or him flipping town and this being closer to being over.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 2:24 pm

Guys.
What if.
The signs don't actually fucking do anything.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 18, 2015 2:26 pm

What if Hito is just sitting at his computer.
Rolling an RNG for every action.
And just laughing at all of us thinking it all means something.
None of this shit fucking matters man.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:08 pm

OH M FUCKING GOD.
GET WRECKED.
AHAHAH

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:10 pm

Hey mastin.
I don't know if you're town.
But fuck you.
That's all.
That's all I have to say to your townbloc.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:10 pm

{gah sorry that's rude}
{sorry}
{ahhhh}

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:13 pm

hitogoroshi wrote:Special: Annihilation cannot win until the Bane vote is decided or expires.

Hold up, would this be there regardless of the gamestate for this minor day?

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:16 pm

Also,

@hito

, can you clarify if there is any possible way that bastard elements could exist in this game or not?

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:20 pm

Like, there's no way that Titus is actually not Viktor, right?

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:25 pm

I have all kinds of info btw.
Should I fullclaim?
I feel like there's no reason I shouldn't at this point.
Will help make the gamestate a lot more transparent.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:26 pm

Pretty sure that espe and singer are like 100% confirmed town based on shit I have.
I can guarantee two other people aren't both on the scumteam.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:28 pm

You and singer both know my role already.
Should I claim it?

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:31 pm

SORRY IM JUST REALLY EXCITED.
I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO LOSE.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:40 pm

I think I would have actually been upset if Titus had been town and had pushed the Aronis wagon like that and been wrong.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 6:44 pm

If you're actually confirmed town I will jump for joy because that will make this game ridiculously easy.
I'm actually so happy that you're not scum who was buddying me singer. Lol.

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 7:20 pm

I'm not down for trade.
We're ahead, I don't think we should get cocky.
If 4nx flips scum and we don't do trade I'll welcome the suspicion, but I just don't particularly feel 100% confident that Titus would so blatantly defend a scummate like that and I like the position we're in, so there's no reason to risk more than what we need to.
I also don't 100% trust you either, so there's that.

Choose: Keep

Cheetory6 · Thu May 21, 2015 7:24 pm

I know.
I'm just not down to potentially throw the game even though I'm also really really confident that 4nx is probably a scumlord.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 2:51 am

If we lynch another scum today I'm pretty sure Alquin stop mattering.
Food for thought.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 2:56 am

Ah that's actually right.
I thought Viktor was the one who let them do that q.q
Okay we're not in as broken of a position as I thought lol.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:09 am

I don't really get why a scumteam with UT on it would kill people who were confirmedly not Alquin.

P-Edit: I thought it seemed a lot like Titus was waffling fucking hard on Gamma in an awkward way. Maybe that was her intent, but still.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:17 am

I think mastin needs to start getting in here and obvtowning because I'm getting really fucking shifty eyes at her for
a) her Titusread/townbloccing
b) her claim is starting to feel awkward the more I think about it
c) her reads on singer and I are just complete shit.
d) lurking which is apparently scummy for her.

I'm sure I'll get a lovely shitsling post for saying this, but I don't trust her at all anymore, despite her role.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:22 am

4nx wrote:I'd lean toward baneing vezok atm.

You should probably actually make a case there or on something if you care at all about living.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:31 am

That's dumb.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:34 am

Like, read things over again and if you come to the same spot again we can talk about it, but Gamma's just illustrated why 1v1 trading for Alquin isn't ideal atm.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:36 am

Also, sorry, you're not dumb.
I'm just being rude because I'm in a weird mood atm.

Also also, CDB, results from last night or..?

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:44 am

We're not choosing Trade.
I don't care how confident anyone is on any read. I will fucking fight anyone hard on that.

CDB wrote:If UT is scum and we don't lynch him Today because of no counterclaim, we are unlikely to hit both other scum.

And if he's town? You can't have one side of the coin without the other.
If we lynch a single scum today then we leave any Alquin claims alive over the night cycle and then boom we can trade safely the following day cycle with literally no repercussions based on Alquin's passive.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 3:46 am

CDB wrote:which is not ideal but is at least not awful.

One scum for four town. Seems pretty good to me. -.-

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 4:50 am

Ew gross.
Now that you mention it the kills seem like they're being made with 0 concern for a doctor protection.
Mastin moves into my would lynch pile for today.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 5:12 am

UT, vezok is probably at the bottom of my list of "I really really think these people are probably town" players.
Can you talk at me about what you're finding suspicious about him? Because I earnestly think the manner in which he's handled singer/Empireslot this game is coming from town and have a hard time seeing scum doing what he did there.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 5:17 am

hito wrote:Might. You may use two active or factional abilities each Major Night. However, you may not use the same Active ability more than once.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 6:18 am

Like..
The trouble I'm having right now is that this entire game Titus has been hard-defending that slot and throwing shade on anything and everything that would suggest that it's scum.
That matches her MO of scum-scum interactions.
I just don't know if she would break that MO as a huge setup to make herself look better if 4nx flipped town.
That's my only hesitation at this point.
That and mastin-related things but I mean that's probably just getting petty at this point.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 6:24 am

While you're probably right, it also concerns me that mastin could be scum and Titus could have been trying to protect her scumlist from flipping?
Maybe?
I just feel like there's all kinds of weirdness around those interactions that make me feel uncertain in general.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 7:38 am

Like, I don't think we shouldn't lynch 4nx.
I just don't think we should get into a circlejerk of "HES OBVSCUM" and we should at least think a little bit about it first.
I have no qualms with baneing him in the meantime though.

Bane: 4nxiety

UT, I'd still appreciate you talking at me about your vezok read in more detail if you can.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 10:54 am

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with what you guys are saying.
I just like being cautious and thinking about things instead of rushing. It's how I am. q.q

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 12:37 pm

Caution kept me from voting for UT despite finding him scummy.
It's a double-edged sword, friend.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 22, 2015 12:58 pm

I think we're mostly just waiting on people to check in. In particular I really want to hear from AD and mastin atm.

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if someone was bussing Titus along the way.
I'm honestly expecting to eventually become suspicious to people before the end of the game q.q
Especially when I end up claiming.

I'm not sure I want to air my reason for townreading Espeonage yet, but I promise it's pretty decent.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 3:16 am

ActionDan wrote:I think there's not much reason not to reveal why you think espeonage is town cheetory. You could die easily next major night

It's possible.
They also increase Espeonage's credibility by flipping my slot town, so I mean, that's a thing.

I forgot Formerfish was in this game.
Hey.
Guy.
Guess who's flying under the radar?
{^this is probably my second favourite choice for lynch atm}

mastin still not appearing is also zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I know she was here the night the flip happened because she was posting elsewhere. She knows that the day has started.
{^this is probably my third favourite choice for lynch atm}

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 7:58 am

You gonna comment on Titusflip or 4nx at all?
You were openly against voting for him at the end of D2. Why? Because of his claim? Do you still think his claim is legitimate?

You should argue at me about your vezok read once your figure out what you're disliking about him.
I disagree about the timing issue you bring up, but I still agree that we should choose Keep over Trade. You should vote for Keep.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 8:00 am

Also, you didn't comment on Titus at all since you replaced in.
You should talk about that.
Like any kind of apparent read progression on her if you had one.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 8:40 am

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 9:07 am

If he was townreading you before, why would he say "still think UT is scum"?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 9:11 am

I've been asking you a bunch to talk at me about your vezok concerns, UT.
Am I just not worthy?

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 7:03 pm

Like.

If we choose trade.
And.
We mislynch.
We're fucked.
No thanks?
I'm agreeing on the confidence on the 4nx read. I still am not going to basically risk the entire game on that lynch just because it'd be nice to get another extra lynch if we are right.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 7:06 pm

Like, we're not fucked, but like..
going from 9/3 to 6/3 is a big difference.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 8:03 pm

From what I can tell:
Worst case with trade is that we get 2 more lynches to figure shit out if 4nx is town before things get awful.
Worst case with keep is that we get 3 more lynches to figure shit out if 4nx is town before things get awful.

Cheetory6 · Sat May 23, 2015 8:12 pm

I care more about making the best decision.
Banking so hard on 4nx being scum could end up blowing up in everyone's faces.
You were what, like 100% confident on UT being scum, right?
Reads are fallible.
4nx is not a 100% bet for being scum and isn't worth the risk IMO.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 3:47 am

Gamma wrote:What are you confident in then. yes this is a serious question I want the strongest opinion you have about the game.

Let me do some homework again.
My strongest read this game came from really reading up things and thinking about it.
With the number of players left and the average number of posts per player left I think I could potentially manage to do somewhat comprehensive ISOdives.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 3:56 am

Hito can we get a prod on Espeonage please?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 3:57 am

AD, can I get like.. a general sense of where you're at right now reads-wise?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 4:59 am

I don't think that's how detecting works?
Unless I'm just misunderstanding you.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 6:31 am

ISOdiving DV. He has a ton of shitty soft interactions with Titus which makes me think they were trying a little too hard to seem like they were having organic interactions [but neither of them really ever throw any kind of serious read at each other]. It really seems like DV should be scumreading Titus in the context of Bulba being his top scumread and her defending him so strongly. Or at least he should be talking about that more. Instead it seems like he focuses a lot more on interacting with Titus while not really taking anything out of those interactions. They're mostly just kind of there and empty which makes me feel like it's more likely to be scum/scum.

DV wrote:I like Titus a lot but always find her stances and arguments a little strange in games, regardless of her alignment. I actually had an early townread on her for the same reason as what I think Nacho did. My impression of Titus is that while her play is often a bit different from the norm, she tends to be more bull-headedly different as scum, while more open to compromising etc. as town, and I'm definitely getting the latter vibe here. I still probably need to check to make sure I'm not completely making things up here though, but I'm probably just going to get more confused if I do. Not in the town section though because I have no confidence in this read whatsoever.

Feels hedgy in an intentional way. Like he feels uncomfortable with the idea of giving Titus a townread, despite saying that he thinks that she's probably town. This is realistically kind of nullish, but like.. this is exactly the kind of stuff that I'd be looking for in terms of scum/scumread.
"Titus is being more compromising here" makes me feel like Titus was using this as a strategy to give her scummates an excuse to toss a townread at her.

DV wrote:Marquis: I'm not actually aware of anyone not thinking Marquis is town so I don't know how much I'll say here (edit: Shadoweh apparently! :/ ), but as I have already mentioned, I thought the way he started this game off would have been excessively risky as scum and since he can be townread as town (see Quil's smalltown) I feel he would have chosen to emulate that instead. It also matches with my own expectations of Marquis as a player. I like his forwardness in booning himself and it reminds me of when he was very open about not wanting to be investigated in Smalltown. Both situations attract unnecessary attention for scum, nor do they actually improve your chances of avoiding investigation/being booned imo, especially with the boon being something I'm pretty sure scum would want here. I thought his reaction to Tammy's suspicion was very natural and his read on me makes a lot of sense.

Trying to decide if this makes sense for scum/scum. Not really sure.

DV wrote:Hey dude. I used to stress so much about being wrong in mafia. I'd oscillate between under-confidence that would completely debilitate the possibility of me having any impact on the game, and over-confidence that I wouldn't be able to maintain (I think this still happens to me tbh). When I start feeling this, I try to tell myself that it's a game that's meant to be fun and if I'm hilariously wrong then it will be more amusing than anything else! Not sure if this will be any help but it's how I try to think about things at least.

Oh, and you completely had me pegged in Smalltown, and were in fact the only one to get close to lynching me! That's got to count for something!

As for your out-of-mafia stuff, I just hope that gets better.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
This makes me feel less confident about FF/DV. q.q

Found this gem here that DV responded to:

Titus wrote:Cops might also check DV.

DV wrote:First Titus. There's no way I'm going to review her ISO because there are way too many posts for that, but my impression early on was that she was town. I remember there being something after my failed attempt at a read wall that solidified my townread really heavily, but I forget what it was and I'm not going to go searching for it now. I may later, but I trust that it was something important and the posts of hers that I've read since have matched my impression of town-Titus, which I can't really explain as anything more than my own ~mystical feelings~. Well maybe if I really tried I could (something I think I've mentioned before was her not being as bull-headed as I've come to expect from her as scum), and I also like what I've seen of her attempted interactions with ika on the last page. If someone wants my vote on that wagon, then they can present a reasonably concise case for me (I will make sure I pay close attention to any posts from this one on) and I will definitely try to consider it, but the chance of me joining with a vote on Titus even with a case that's nicely wrapped up with a ribbon on top is pretty low.

Okay yeah. This is too overdetailed and wordy. Where his defense of Espeonage is point by point and logical, this is entirely feelings, hedged bullshit and posturing an unwillingness to consider cases on her. Again reiterating what was likely Titus's strategy of this game. Forcing the whole cooperation thing and using it to give her scummates what would widely be perceived an okay reason for which to townread her.

4nxlynch is pretty good beyond claim/Titusharddefense bullshit. I will be really really sad if he flips town because there's just so much here that makes it seem like he has to be scum. :/
Can we keep and bane and get this over with? Like, unless someone other than Gamma has qualms about the choice?

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 6:37 am

mastin/DV interactions are really hard to read.
Is the entire thing a scum-gambit of hardpushing a scummate over and over and over?
My hesitation there is DV throwing a townread at mastin. It feels more like he's trying to toss a townread on her, try to ignore her and hope she goes away than it does two scummates trying to play up bullshit [at least on his end q.q].

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 am

I think we have to choose a choice first.

Cheetory6 · Sun May 24, 2015 4:42 pm

L-1.
Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Suckas.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 25, 2015 8:43 am

vla until wednesday night.

Cheetory6 · Mon May 25, 2015 5:34 pm

Yup.

Boon: Singer

Gamma's not in the list of potential peoplies?
Also are you just kind of taking my word on Espe atm?

Cheetory6 · Mon May 25, 2015 5:35 pm

Also also, CDB is definitely town in your opinion?
Like, he's leaning town for me too, but you should know why I'm still kind of worried about him >.>

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 4:50 am

Espeonage wrote:It should be noted that as a team we are against the booning of Singer.

We have a day left. If this isn't just complete hot air you should really explain this. And soon.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 4:51 am

I would boon Shadow if I had any confidence whatsoever in mastin being town right now.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 5:54 am

Why?
Espe.
I'm literally the only reason you're not being held closer to the flames. Can you please actually explain literally anything about your thought processes or your team's thought processes? Can you do that as like a favour to me or something?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 8:50 am

Really, all we need to do at this point is figure out are we booning shadow or are we booning singer?
Which boils down to, do we actually trust mastin or not?
Because if mastin is full of shit then she can just play the "I targeted someone else game".

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 9:00 am

@mastin,
Yeah you can't protect Shadow tonight.
But if we boon Singer you could protect someone with a more important role?
*waves*
Or CDB or something, I don't know. Feel free to argue with me on that but we should move quick on this because we only have one more day.
I think I believe you're town as I've just been struck by an epiphany, but I may need to ask a favour on major D3 in exchange for my trust if that's okay?

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 10:56 am

I mean I'm pretty fed up of her ignoring me.
This entire game.

If we get two scum today I'm down to throw a lynch away on her on fucking principle.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 6:49 pm

Cheetory6 wrote:@mastin,
Yeah you can't protect Shadow tonight.
But if we boon Singer you could protect someone with a more important role?
*waves*
Or CDB or something, I don't know. Feel free to argue with me on that but we should move quick on this because we only have one more day.
I think I believe you're town as I've just been struck by an epiphany, but I may need to ask a favour on major D3 in exchange for my trust if that's okay?

Literally immediately as you were here and posting.
This isn't the first time you've done this where I've been trying to interact with you and you just completely ignore me.
I like feeling engaged when playing mafia.
If you ignore me and just toss reads and conclusions at me it makes me want to ignore what you're saying out of spite, because it seems like you're not really giving much of anyone any kind of time of day and it's frustrating.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 6:50 pm

If this frustrates you, okay. Feel free to ignore me being whiny and bitchy.
I'd still like a response to my original post.

Cheetory6 · Tue May 26, 2015 6:58 pm

But the point there is that it might arguably be more important to protect two out of those three players rather than to protect Shadow and one of them.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 3:15 pm

I have a theory.
It is entirely dependent on the mechanics of mastin's role.

If it's how I think they work then I'm pretty sure I can get us a second scum today.
Should I lay out everything I have and the theory I have or should I wait until after we flip 4nx or something?
iuno q.q
I suck at claimthings/having a PR.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 3:22 pm

vezok wrote:I traced espe and I got no result. I think he's town.

Wait hold the fuck up.
Espe said he detected me minor d1?

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 3:23 pm

Oh wait no I'm just dumb.
I've been misunderstanding how trace works because I haven't been using it.
q.q

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 3:36 pm

Okay fuck it.

I'm basically like a buffed up major night minor night tracker.
When I match signs with someone I can use 'Echo' to learn the last person they detected in the game, whether it was successful and what sign they used. They also are informed that someone used my ability on them, word for word, but not that it was me. I know. It sounds like a scum power. But it's not.

Minor night 1 I detected gamma because I didn't have a good read on him and was feeling wary of how he was occasionally pushing me yadda yadda. Guessed his sign correctly because I'm a boss.
Major night 1 I used echo on Gamma and he detected Shadow and got the wrong result.
My current theory is that scum shot Shadow N1 and either guessed her sign wrong or she got protected. I want Gamma to claim today.

Minor night 2 I detected UT because he seemed sketchy. Guessed wrong. My guess wasn't candle though, so, there's that.
Major night 2 I decided to take a blind shot for Singer's sign because I felt like UT wasn't going to be worth targeting and I got it right. Singer can choose to reveal what she did if she wants because I trust her, so shrugs all around there.

I'm not sure I want to reveal who I'm targeting tonight.

Espeonage is town for reasons that have been anti-town for me to get into, but I don't think it really matters anymore. Scum can try to shoot me if they want to risk mastin potentially not protecting me assuming she's telling the truth.
Espeonage detected me minor night 1 right?
Well, my lovely lovely sign is Candle.
Why in the world would I still be here right now if scumEspeonage had detected that I was Candle and had a decent chance of being Alquin?

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 3:58 pm

I thought Tammy said that?
Espeonage was like hanging my sign in front of my all of D1.
>.>

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 3:59 pm

Also, I didn't track your major night action, I tracked your most recent detect since Major Night 2.

Cheetory6 · Fri May 29, 2015 4:07 pm

It's also part of why I've been looking at CDB with really shift eyes all game.
I can't tell if we have sister town roles or if he's on the opposite team with a mirror role.