Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[WhyMafia]

Haven't played mafia in a while, hope to do well! Catching up rn and will hopefully put my thoughts out in a bit

[WhyMafia]

It's scummy because they are making it seem like they don't want to vote because we may be out of rvs already, not very likely when we are barely on page 2. They answer their own question by mentioning that nothing scummy has really come up, which would mean that most likely we are still in rvs.

So if they were concerned about being out of rvs as a reason to have not voted, their own reasoning is negated by their own observation of the game, and should have felt comfortable voting freely.

For some reason they didn't.

*She/her, thanks.

It's possible to be out of RVS on page 2, just as it's possible for scummy things to happen during RVS, so I think your logic here is wrong. From my perspective, it seemed like there might be enough substantive talk, especially based on/around nancy's questions, that we might be out of RVS, but I wasn't positive because I'm still pretty new and I'm not 100% sure when RVS ends (other than everybody agreeing that it's over). So, I could either risk making a random vote and getting scrutinized for that, or I could be wrong about the RVS status and risk being scrutinized for not voting at all. I went with "don't vote, explain why, and assume people will understand," but that failed, and here we are.

Speaking of vote scrutiny...

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

My understanding of RVS is that it only involves one random vote, and then the next vote should be serious. So, why this second non-serious vote?

This whole interaction with FormerFish I liked
- I liked how he was willing to engage with her and felt her response was genuine. I'm confused about this post

Mostly because they are newer and have 1 post in so far. I don't like the post and it's something I would like to engage her on, but until she gets back in here and posts more I can't do that.

1 post that's not quite good does not a scumbag make.

I don't see why a vote on her would've been bad at this point of time. So what if she's new and at that point of the game, she was his best lead? It seems like he was willing to confront her, but didn't want to risk antagonizing her or voting her? Idk, something seems off about him saying that. So slight town lean on Flicker, and slight scum lean on FormerFish as of these posts.

[WhyMafia]

As of page 5 I'm really liking nancy. I'm confusing myself on how I feel about Flicker. It's a slot I'm puzzled about - I'll need to look into the slot more as the game goes on. I agree with the scum reads on Oka at this point.

[WhyMafia]

As of page 6 - There's nothing glaringly wrong with Eregon. My read on him isn't based on logic, but a combination of tone/superficialness is making me want to scum read him.
My scum read on Oka is stronger with this page. I don't like anything he posted on this page. I don't like how he's trying to "bait" Trinity, bc it seems like he's trying to force something out, when he knows she's a newbie and may say some somewhat questionable things like the RVS vote being limited to 1. I also don't like his read on Trinity and subsequently his scum reads on the two inactive newbies. It seems incredibly fake because she hadn't even interacted that much ??? And even then, he's experienced enough to know that talking doesn't really make someone town? Overall, Oka seems lazy and trying to coast.

[WhyMafia]

Like Eragon has good points but it seems like he's stating good points that aren't putting himself out there. There's nothing controversial, no pushing happening. He's asking questions, but not really following up on them. He gives town reads, but just has a mehh overall attitude. Stuff like

im not saying its super wolfy, im just saying it seems opportunistic and we should keep an eye out.


im not saying its super wolfy, im just saying it seems opportunistic and we should keep an eye out.

Or

not the fact that its 2 random people, the fact that its 2 people with zero thread presence and that are noobs(if im not mistaken)

if thats not hella opportunistic idk what is

I guess, but like, he has some shape of a townread on everyone else, no?

so its just PoE then...

PoE D1???

adding onto this,

If it truly is PoE, im truly amazed that ANYONE can have 7 solid enough townreads that they think that the 2 scum are the only people they dont townred

Like he consistently says he scum reads Oka, but I'm yet to see him actually try to engage with him, and fully push him as scum. Most of his posts seem to be questions with little follow up, and just following the general consensus. Bahhhh, I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this well, so ask questions if you need to

I know its weak but I like the fact that he is putting his opinion out there on someone(flicker) who seems like mis-lynch bait and/or noob town(sorry flicker) without trying to strong-arm the Lynch.
If I were scum id likely be trying to strong-arm a flicker mis-lynch based on some posts

This post also bothers me because he's viewing her as noob town/mis-lynch bait, but still views her as scum. I'm confused on what he thinks of her and his overall impression of FF and Flicker seem fake. He also implies that a few posts of Flicker were very scummy, and it seems like he's portraying himself as look, I'm not scum bc I'm not doing X Y Z. It just feels off

[WhyMafia]

Rn my biggest scum reads are Eragon/Oka

[WhyMafia]

Unfortunately I have to go now but I'll probably be able to post again today

[WhyMafia]

Nah, not close yet sorry :/

[WhyMafia]

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

Nancy, in this posts oka said I’m not being proactive and I’m not trying to engage with others. I don’t think this is true.

you think you are being real proactive in engaging with others?
alright i guess ill do a bigish post
9 answering nancy's rqs questions
10 making a jokey comment
11 rvs vote
44 another rvs vote that put ff at l2 which will be clarified later
62 trinity responds to nancy about rvs stuff
63 "I liked it"
64 more rvs things
67 maybe proactive? just seems to be a side comment
69 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
71 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
100 prompted by nancy
101 want clarification from nancy on reads
117 explaining why she has no scumreads, promises to do more investigating later
118 thanking nancy for explaining
119 clarifying when prompted by nancy
121 answering my questions
264 explaining why she doesn't believe l-2 to be a big deal
288 catching up post
293 i made a post! trinity says im scummy for thinking she is scummy and im looking for excuses to vote her but i mean yeah that's mafia, asks why ff would hate me for voting me, i clarify later, i guess it's proactive? but she is also just engaging a person who is voting her so it's more reactive.
294 double post
297 time zones
299 reads, does something semi-proactive which is making her rvs vote her permanent your sus vote. decent post i like it
301 fluff
302 fluff
307 fluff
308 answering questions
382 showing solidarity for someone who might vote ff
387 "proactive" question after i claim that she hasn't been proactive
391 clarifying her question
393 meh
395 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy
399 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy

has very few moments of proactive town moments, most of her posts are either fluff or reacting to other questions which is i guess is kinda normal. but the only real proactive/unique thing she has done is mark Formerfish as possible scum, but she has yet to really follow up on that and engage with formerfish. maybe if she builds a more solid case against ff and responds to some of the points ff makes in response to nancy's case and takes a more active stance in challenging FF ill move off this but for now I see this as scum who is sitting back and not wanting to heavily engage with people so the spotlight isn't on her.

Confession - got lazy and skimmed the next 15 pages ;P

[WhyMafia]

that quote shouldn't be there oops

[WhyMafia]

anyways @Oka what do you have to say? For now I will VOTE: Oka

[WhyMafia]

mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?

[WhyMafia]

I don't really have a read on Oka. I think something they are doing is Scummy and other things they are doing is incredibly Townie. Overall, I'd say Null Town (which is weaker than Town Lean for me).

What has he done that’s incredibly towny and what’s been scummy?

[WhyMafia]

I don't really have a read on Oka. I think something they are doing is Scummy and other things they are doing is incredibly Townie. Overall, I'd say Null Town (which is weaker than Town Lean for me).

What has he done that’s incredibly towny and what’s been scummy?

Some of the questions Oka has asked have seemed very Town motivated. But what they are pushing is a bit suspect.

Can you give examples?

[WhyMafia]

And I'm confused by how a question's push can be suspect while also being town motivated so please elaborate on that as well
@Oka sorry, didn't realize there was a post on page 25 so I'll reply to that

[WhyMafia]

While this is all going on can people tell me what they think of Eragon? Curious to see where everyone stands on that slot

[WhyMafia]

Why did you originally have him as town again?

[WhyMafia]

And you had earlier said that you had trouble scum reading anyone - you SR the two newbies who hadn't posted much - so I'm assuming you're much more fluid rn on who you want to Lynch? What changed all those opinions? Is a lack of contribution causing you to SR people?

[WhyMafia]

I don't really have a read on Oka. I think something they are doing is Scummy and other things they are doing is incredibly Townie. Overall, I'd say Null Town (which is weaker than Town Lean for me).

What has he done that’s incredibly towny and what’s been scummy?

Some of the questions Oka has asked have seemed very Town motivated. But what they are pushing is a bit suspect.

Can you give examples?

This might sound Scummy or stupid to you, but I have to ask why you need examples.

Because I want to know your thought process and how you're drawing those conclusions

[WhyMafia]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

trinity is town because i don't see a new player interact that much and be scum

nancy ur town because i don't see you interacting that much to be scum

stanley feels like a rational town player

---

i thought trinity might have been scum with the rvs vote thing she did on FF but i don't think so anymore, mainly because i think her not understanding it was l2 seems genuine

flicker seems a bit defensive but nothing concrete yet

former is town because reasons

---
unvoted because we are out of rvs

and ill read that eragon post later

Why would Trinity posting lead you to think she's town - Later you said her original posts were fluff and for a long time you were complaining you couldn't scum read anyone. Why did that change? Because in my POV I don't get why you shifted like that.

[WhyMafia]

That first quote shouldn't be there xD

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: Eragon

[WhyMafia]

which conclusion ;p

[WhyMafia]

I believe I talked about Eragon already -
Regarding you, I tried thinking of what I'd be thinking in your situations and I don't see anything that's purely scum motivated. Your case on Trinity seems genuine-ish even though you haven't really done the pushing & looked beyond surface-level things. I don't see you trying to convince others why you're right, but I don't think you're scum anymore

P-Edit - Read my catchups

[WhyMafia]

Dammit you stole the page-top

You will regret this!

[WhyMafia]

@WhyMafia would be cool if you talk about your reads outside Eragon/Oka

Those are currently the ones I'm most interested about in looking for scum though but fineeeeeeeee

[WhyMafia]

I saw someone talkign about my tone, well take this as you will, but im trying to be nicer and calmer playing FM

on my Home site i can get a bit riled up and sarcastic and jerky and annoying, and this annoys me as well.
Coming to a new site, a fresh start, i am trying to be calmer. I can see where this can seem like im trying to avoid conflict/stay under the radar, so i suppose i cant have both worlds be perfect. Im still gonna try to be calm, but i will also push and prod people to help me soldiify my reads

Catching up now

I saw someone talkign about my tone, well take this as you will, but im trying to be nicer and calmer playing FM

on my Home site i can get a bit riled up and sarcastic and jerky and annoying, and this annoys me as well.
Coming to a new site, a fresh start, i am trying to be calmer. I can see where this can seem like im trying to avoid conflict/stay under the radar, so i suppose i cant have both worlds be perfect. Im still gonna try to be calm, but i will also push and prod people to help me soldiify my reads

Catching up now

I'm saying you're tonally off in that sense. Like yeah, it gave me that impression, but I haven't seen that pushing or prodding. You've been passive and all your questions seem superficial. To me, you're coasting and giving an illusion of participating. You called people scummy, but then become wishy washy. Case in point, your reads list. Most of your reads are null/slightly scummy. The person who you seemed to shade, Flicker, you didn't even announce as scum? You never gave an actual read (unless I'm blind) and despite alluding to her being scum, and you being confident, I don't see that drive to see her lynched. Thus, you are scum

[WhyMafia]

I don't really have a read on Oka. I think something they are doing is Scummy and other things they are doing is incredibly Townie. Overall, I'd say Null Town (which is weaker than Town Lean for me).

What has he done that’s incredibly towny and what’s been scummy?

Some of the questions Oka has asked have seemed very Town motivated. But what they are pushing is a bit suspect.

Can you give examples?

This might sound Scummy or stupid to you, but I have to ask why you need examples.

Because I want to know your thought process and how you're drawing those conclusions

Did you know there is an alternate, superior way if figuring this out, without me possibly influencing you by cherry picking?

Just ISO Oka with what I said in mind. If you come to the same conclusion, that solves this problem.

I want to know how

you

are reaching your conclusions.

[WhyMafia]

I need more words from WhyMafia about how his read on Oka changed and why he dropped his push to go onto Eragon because the way that played out feels like he was a spinning top that lost momentum and clinked to a halt against the tabletop and the sound of the clink is the sound I hear in my dreams when I think about scum.

My read on Oka didn't change per say. I wanted to interact with him and I felt like voting him would get him to listen to me. I honestly don't know what to think of the slot bc like Quick said, he's done scummy things, as well as towny things. I liked his answers to my questions, and his case on Trinity kind of reminded me of myself as town? Bc I used to make similar-ish cases as town and would try to point out how every post paints them as scum. Upon reading back my interaction with Oka, I kinda feel iffy how he only wanted to me talk about Eragon after I unvoted him. It's giving me the impression that he was trying to get my attention away from him. I feel like he's contradicted himself but my gut is telling me to trust this

I need more words from WhyMafia about how his read on Oka changed and why he dropped his push to go onto Eragon because the way that played out feels like he was a spinning top that lost momentum and clinked to a halt against the tabletop and the sound of the clink is the sound I hear in my dreams when I think about scum.

because to an extent interactions can point to being town but then on a revistation, i noticed a pattern.

[WhyMafia]

I don't get why I'm having so much trouble with quoting lmao

[WhyMafia]

@whymafia reads rn on eragon/trinity/iceman?

I've made it abundantly clear my read on eragon ya fool : (

[WhyMafia]

Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null

[WhyMafia]

I like Iceman as a lean town

[WhyMafia]

Bahh, do you guys think we'll have enough time to have a meaningful discussion with Eragon before deadline? Bc he's V/LA till like a day or two before IIRC

[WhyMafia]

I await your case flicker ; D

[WhyMafia]

And boy are we indecisive lmao

[WhyMafia]

Briefly, it would be something about how catching up and interacting with other people is sort of the bare minimum for any player, with maybe a side of "Are you sure you're not just town reading him for having a similar posting/play style?" depending on how salty I felt. (Admittedly, I also sometimes town read people based on having a similar posting/play style, which is another thing I'm trying to work on.)

I like that Oka asked the question that prompted this response, and I dislike the response. I don't think it makes very much sense for town to be salty about someone getting a townread on someone else unless you scumread the person they're townreading, and I quickly checked Flicker's posts for her stance on Quick and she seems to have him as slightly town, so, this reaction from her doesn't make sense to me if she's town.

I never said I had Quick as a slight town read, though. I said maybe, if I had to choose which of Quick and Formerfish was town in a TvS situation, I'd say Quick, but that was such a weak read I capped it off with "I don't know" and a big shrug emoji.

And I would have been salty because I feel like I've been putting in a lot of work and not getting townread. It doesn't have anything to do with me disagreeing with the read.

I can't make heads or tails of the Flicker post. I can't tell if it's just that she's a newb and is reading into things in a really strange way or if it's that she has a ton of TMI and I don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to try right now.

@Flicker I really need you to be more present. You have less posts than the mod right now and that's really not okay. I really need more from you here because I think you might be mafia and there's just enough for me to go off to see that you're town if you are here. You don't have to make wallposts. Your posts don't have to be truthbombs or full of gems. Just a bit of thread presence and sharing your thoughts on things that are happening would go a long way.

I'm gonna be honest, the first time I read this it really hurt my feelings. I said in my intro post that I'm lower activity and tend towards wallposts, and I feel like you're just attacking me based on my play style and the fact that I can't post when you're around (which is basically 100% when I'm asleep). I'm also not trying to post "truthbombs" or anything like that, I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible.

FWIW, my posting window right now is between 10 AM CDT and 2 PM CDT, and the only person who's been around during that time is Oka, whom I've engaged with a little - clearly not enough for you, but I am trying. I guess I could also try posting in the evening, when Formerfish and Quick seem to always get on, but usually I'm busy or I've depleted my energy for playing mafia earlier in the day. I can make more of an effort to break up my wall posts into more manageable chunks, but I'm not gonna upend my life for this, so if you just wanna policy lynch me for not playing well enough or whatever, go ahead.

I like this post from you Flicker, it seems open and also expresses some of how I’m feeling too. I for one would appreciate shorter posts as i can’t seem to be able concentrate properly on the long ones

Agree with his sentiment - I get distracted easily when I read long mafia posts, it's nothing against you. I liked the size of your catch-up posts - if that would be the general-ish size it would be very appreciated : D. In other news, I like Flicker's responses, and am town leaning her.

[WhyMafia]

def something is off. rather than consolidating into a few wagons we are splitting apart as time progresses

I don't think it's significant yet, but there might be some juicy VCA later

[WhyMafia]

Oka continues to bewilder me. Bah

[WhyMafia]

Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null

What sort of content would you like to see from me?

Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null

What sort of content would you like to see from me?

Hmm. Can you elaborate on your switch from FF? What specifically caused you to slowly change your mind about FF? What are some other general observations you made about slots? Individually I like your posts. However, I in the grand scheme, you seem to be ... kinda aimless? I don't see you doing anything meaningful per say. I don't see your thirst to figure out if your SR on Oka is correct. I guess ... I don't see your motivations, if that makes sense? Because you're active on the thread, but I don't see you stirring up the pot.

[WhyMafia]

nancy I responded to why I shifted about Oka ;p

[WhyMafia]

I do not support a day one Oka Lynch

[WhyMafia]

At least not at the moment

[WhyMafia]

Hey Oka - hypothetically if lynching Trinity was impossible who would be on the chopping block for you?

[WhyMafia]

Have you looked into anyone but Trinity recently?

[WhyMafia]

I'm not saying Trinity is impossible to Lynch, but don't get tunnel minded - Try to evaluate your other scum reads as well

[WhyMafia]

thank you for seeing the light <3

[WhyMafia]

recently i havent had time to really mark out my reads cuz ive been busy and will be.

would it help to throw out a semi-educated vote?

do you WANT me to throw out a semi-educated vote?

scum

[WhyMafia]

would it help to throw out a semi-educated vote?

do you WANT me to throw out a semi-educated vote?

like
I dont see this coming from town
ever


????

it doesn't matter what we want, you haven't committed to anything the entire game ... even when you weren't V/LA. Yeah, you said you don't believe in pressure votes, but you also called people scum and said two people were worth voting but you didn't wanna put em on L-2. They've been off L-2 for a long time and you've just posted content over and over. I've seen you make analysis. I've seen you call people scum. But you have 0 drive, and 0 attempts at flushing out scum reads. You're not committing to anything, and the fact that you say if we want a semi-educated vote?? like that's only out of self-preservation after nancy votes you. Why didn't you choose to vote in the first place, if you're willing to vote now?

[WhyMafia]

Idk if that's worded well so tell me if you need clarification

[WhyMafia]

im tired sorry today's been a long day

[WhyMafia]

;P

[WhyMafia]

that would be against the rules since it's still ongoing

[WhyMafia]

and while it probably came out awful, I dont take back anything I saidddddd

[WhyMafia]

yesterday, I felt like Oka and flicker were both scummy enough to warrant a vote, but me voting would've put them at L-2(iirc)

like here
You said they were scummy enough to warrant a vote, and while not flicker, but Oka continues to be on your scum list. You've only had more time to garner evidence. What made you want to vote them then but not any time after?

[WhyMafia]

and even with your scum reads, I don't get the feeling that you truly think them to be scum. I don't see you passionate,I don't see you convincing others. I just see you analyze posts, give your opinion if its towny or scummy, and move on from there.

[WhyMafia]

DAMMIT YOU STOLE MY PAGE TOP
that's definitely evidence that you are scum *points finger*

[WhyMafia]

i can and will respond to things specifically directed at me.

i only have an hour or so every night when im home and free, but it's gonna be hard to keep up with the overall thread and reads and shit like that

P;edit: im sorry, lets make another 20-ish posts so we can get you your pagetop

all is forgiven <3

[WhyMafia]

We can sort out Eragon later, there are more important people to sort at the moment imo.

The only person you've been saying you consider scum is Trinity and that you haven't looked at anyone else. Eragon is here right now, and I want to talk to him before he goes away again. Why are you so driven in defending Eragon from scrutiny?

[WhyMafia]

because i lost confidence by letting this game run.

Iceman:

I havent seen much content from him except saying he wants to PL the IC if they are alive late game, and calling quick scum for not reading the thread. Overall it seems like he has been pushing on the little things and reaching for some things, and I’m not getting good vibes from his post. All this being said, based on his experience level(i think) he could also be Noob!town

Stan1ey:

I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Flicker:

Starts off kinda awkward IMO, and I don’t really like their “scrutinization” posts, plus their SR on Oka feels kinda forced and reaching(like on the push about Oka asking questions, I mean ???) also when they posted their reads most of the Reads are very weak.

Reads Nancy towny for being active
Reads Iceman town for pointing out good Info
Reads FF as town for Mindmelding
Reads me as town for attitude
Reads Trinity as town for weirdness and votes
Reads Stan1ey as null for “sheeping”?
Reads Quick as null for the reading

And I think its odd that they have a town pile of 6 people and the other 2 are null pile?
So no SR’s?

Trinity:

I think her posts are fairly natural, there have been a few pings back and forth such as the “I don’t SR him… Yet” post and their defense of Oka, instead of trying to counter the read or Prove it wrong, they brush it off like its nothing and just say that “scum must be happy watching us argue” and more or less OMGUS’ing on Oka by saying his push is scummy.
I also didn’t like their post saying “Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF”

Their posts seem scummy but their tone feels natural, so thats why they are a null read for me

Quick:

Really don’t have a great read on them but I don’t think they would bring this much attention to themselves for not reading the thread if they were scum. This is by far one of my weaker reads, but I’m soul-reading them as light town

OkaPoka:

In the beginning he felt pretty good, but then I don’t really like him pushing the noobs that have low thread presence and likely will have a harder time defending themselves. It kinda seems like he is trying to pull of an easier mis-lynch than trying to Lynch someone like Nancy or FF. I also don’t like “at this point im just waiting for the replacement to sarge to replace in and say something so i can vote them lol” also he seems to be really wishy-washy on his reads, like on trinity he goes scum, town, then scum again. His tunnel on Iceman felt kinda off to me, even if I agreed with the points.
His push later on on Trinity feels towny actually. I also think its weird that as soon as Nancy said she was no longer positive in the TR on me, he said the same thing too. He just kinda seems like he’s being a little opportunistic and sheepy, but not overall too bad recently. He is also one of my weaker reads but I think he is a little scummy.

FF:

posts feel natural and towny, and I’m mind-melding a lot with him. He is pretty much a tone-read, and its kinda hard to explain in short words, but I am almost confident in a Town!FF

Nancy:

What do I even say about this except town, town, town, town, town, town

@Eragon, did you SR flicker in this post?

[WhyMafia]

My reads aren't wishy washy. Explicitly I like Iceman and you. I lean town Trinity and Quick. I'm bewildered by Oka. I need to re-read FF and Flicker. I scum read Eragon.

[WhyMafia]

I have a scum read, and I want him to talk to me, and until my scum read of him decreases, or someone makes a compelling case on him, I'm gonna stick to him. Why is my progression on Oka bad? Why would scum!WM behave the way he did? Why would I make a bit of pressure, and instantly retract it? I don't know what to think of that slot, and I've made that abundantly clear. I'm not gonna sugar coat things to look good, I'm gonna vote and interact with people as I see things I like and don't like

[WhyMafia]

I think Flicker's response to my mini push was soooo genuine and real, the hurt she expressed there and how it wove into her play, and I think it helped me to understand what level to read her on here. I think the amount of effort that she put into her first post and how nuanced and careful she was with her Oka treatment was really town and I think the way she's approached people and tried to solve things has felt really genuine. I think the way she unvoted Oka makes a lot of sense and isn't really the angle that mafia take there pulling off a scumread. When I read her big wallpost I thought that she was either a newbie reading into things in a really quirky way like newbies sometimes do or just TMI-ing a bunch of people town and I think after hearing her speak to me that it's the first one and I think she's just super likely to be town here.

Nancy can you elaborate on this? I keep re-reading Flicker and I guess I see some of the things you see, but not all of it. Why is her nuance and care regarding Oka towny? Can you describe how it makes sense the way she unvoted Oka to not really come from scum?

[WhyMafia]

im excited that you voted me tho

let's 1v1

ill case you up

wtf ... ?

[WhyMafia]

Oka are you literally just OMGUS'ing her for voting her when you've called her town all game? Everything you say it literally tainted by the fact that I know you're forcing the Read to happen
VOTE: Oka

You played well, but to me that's a blatant scum slip

[WhyMafia]

OH THATS L-1 BTW

[WhyMafia]

was scrolling back to re-read and saw the last vc lmao

[WhyMafia]

I think your reads have been pretty wishy-washy. Your Eragon read is the only one that I've seen you really stick to. It's not the worst thing in the world to be wishy-washy. You replaced in not very long ago, you're still getting a feel for the game, sure, I get it. That does need to change at some point, though.

Meh. I can see how you think that. Re-reading what I said does give that impression, and my insistence on Eragon reflects my confidence in that read. The only other players who I'm think confident about are you and Ice as town. And I didn't really think I needed to elaborate on them, but will gladly do so

[WhyMafia]

Oh trinity unvoted mb

[WhyMafia]

Oka is the only thing you dislike about Nancy is that she's using emotions? Claiming that all her reads and analysis don't have logic or reasoning to back them out is folly. I also do think its folly for town to consider Nancy lock-town and treat her words as if she was confirmed town. I've been conflicted by your slot but this OMGUS is disgusting. Reads are to be re-evalulated and changed as time passes, dw

[WhyMafia]

in nancy's scum pt, she explains how charisma is the most important trait to have for scum

and she hates bussing

Can you link? I've only played with town!Nancy

[WhyMafia]

So you're just going to acquiesce to an Oka lynch?

Actually, now that I think about it, I have to ask where exactly is the resistance to lynching Oka here? Seems no one is really that concerned that Oka is getting lynched, which makes me think Oka had a good shot at being Town here.

I mean he was a heavy contender for a while now and his wagon kept dying off

[WhyMafia]

You can't say there's a possibility for him being town

bc

there's a lack of resistance to this wagon

[WhyMafia]

There's been multiple times his wagon has died too /shrug

[WhyMafia]

I don't like the state of this game with me being the only big wagon.

Didn't you say earlier that something was up bc there were so many split wagons?

[WhyMafia]

I think your reads have been pretty wishy-washy. Your Eragon read is the only one that I've seen you really stick to. It's not the worst thing in the world to be wishy-washy. You replaced in not very long ago, you're still getting a feel for the game, sure, I get it. That does need to change at some point, though.

Meh. I can see how you think that. Re-reading what I said does give that impression, and my insistence on Eragon reflects my confidence in that read. The only other players who I'm think confident about are you and Ice as town. And I didn't really think I needed to elaborate on them, but will gladly do so

@WhyMafia why didn't you follow up on this?

I’ve been super busy the last few days, my apologies. I’ll get it out today

[WhyMafia]

So Trinity. Is the main reason you switched on Oka is because of his relentless push on you? That he wouldn't risk it as town? Because by that logic, as scum, couldn't he do that, and undertake that defense? That's just WIFOM (Hope I used that correctly ;P ). Knowing that you'd town read him bc no scum would be that brazen sounds like a wonderful idea for scum to just do it anyway

[WhyMafia]

Upon re-reading I'm slightly more hesitant on Iceman now. The thing that casts doubt for me is his repeated claims that people are mis-interpreting by his Lynch the IC by Day 3 statement at the beginning. He clearly states here -

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

that he advocates a policy Lynch on the IC contingent on us having no strong opinion on anyone.

I thought this was a towny bc of his frankness, and willingness to put himself out there despite nancy appearing solid town at that point. He also backed up what he said, and I can see how he would be thinking what he thought. I dislike 1072 bc idk it gives me bad feelings. Like, it feels so off, and it feels like he's trying to retract that statement.

Overall, I like his pushes and his frankness. When he describes how someone/something is anti-town and calls them out for it, it makes me want to trust him more. He says stuff and goes after people that do fishy things, regardless of who they are, and I like that. I liked his interactions with Quick, and I liked 1115 because it directly represents how I felt about the unvote, I just didn't really know how to put it into words.

[WhyMafia]

Iceman is one of my strongest town reads though. I thought about post 1072 a bit more, and thought about what he could've been thinking; and I don't really see the scum motivation behind it

[WhyMafia]

What is even going on jeebus

[WhyMafia]

Why are we completely disintegrating

[WhyMafia]

As much as I want eragon dead we’re never lynching him today

[WhyMafia]

We’re also not lynching FF. He’s done towny things and I don’t feel comfortable turbo’ing him

Nancy which post explains your shift? You were supporting her a long time ...
I need to re-read quick slot

[WhyMafia]

The Oka wagon is dying off and I don’t know why
Everyone who’s off it please explain why you’re no longer voting him and beginning a new wagon so close to deadline
At this rate we’re gonna do something we regret

[WhyMafia]

Everyone in the game needs to take a stance on the Trinity lynch. I personally don't think there's almost ever a world where she's town here after her readflip on Oka. I think her flip clears Oka and probably Quick. I think her FF read is weird but I have 100 eyes emoji at 569 and don't think I would clear him as a partner just because she was scumreading him and buddying people who were voting for him.

pedit FF, why are you completely ignoring Trinity's post?

pedit Quick cut it out. I am reporting your posts.

What was scummy about her flip on Oka? If she’s a newb it makes sense for her to make the WIFOM argument? Unless you’re referring to something else

[WhyMafia]

I’ve been split on Oka but I keep re-reading and seeing his response to being out at L-1 and L-2 and his proclamation of a 1 v 1 with nancy and his other posts just seemed so flaily and contradictory

[WhyMafia]

Thanks

[WhyMafia]

So Trinity. Is the main reason you switched on Oka is because of his relentless push on you? That he wouldn't risk it as town? Because by that logic, as scum, couldn't he do that, and undertake that defense? That's just WIFOM (Hope I used that correctly ;P ). Knowing that you'd town read him bc no scum would be that brazen sounds like a wonderful idea for scum to just do it anyway

It didn’t seem like something scum would do. Like the thought process behind it is something I can see bc I thought like that sometimes myself when I was a newbie. I could be wrong, but I’m just confused how this post made you do a 180 after defending her so much

[WhyMafia]

Elaborate

[WhyMafia]

That was directed at Nancy
@eragon why trinity?

[WhyMafia]

She does not need to claim yet stop pressuring her

[WhyMafia]

I’m half asleep but I’ll try to elaborate

[WhyMafia]

Hm. Maybe you're right WhyMafia?

I've basically ruled out everyone except Flicker and Eragon as Trinity's partners and Eragon just put her to L-1 so now I'm kind of ruling him out too and I townread Flicker...

I could be misclearing a team but I don't think I am?

Talk to me about why you think 1201 makes sense to you?

It’s not towny per say. It’s not elegant nor is it a good post. But the underlying thought process behind - he’s gonna look bad when I flip town so he’s not gonna pressure much so he’s town isn’t 100% coming from scum. Why would it? Is she trying to avoid being called out for it? I believe she’s perceptive enough to see that it would be controversial. But I don’t see her scum motivation in the unvote. I see her as town trying to get passed confirmation bias and try to broaden her horizons.

[WhyMafia]

Like - I don’t disagree that trinity is scummy. But nancy, for someone who has defended trinity throughout the game, I simply cannot fathom how you reversed her read on that. What is her scum motivaton? Why would she jump off the wagon, only to re-join it later? Her thinking it’s too scummy to be scum just seems to resonate with me. It doesn’t make sense, but like it’s not inherently scummy, is it? There’s also the matter of partners as you mentioned : P

[WhyMafia]

Ayy got my page top
Am I a cool kid now : D

[WhyMafia]

maybe I’ll compromise and vote trinity after I re-read her ISO, but for now, I’m not convinced when Oka’s wagon has called off how many times now ? Nancy, does his response to being wagoned up ever come from town?

[WhyMafia]

Like - I don’t disagree that trinity is scummy. But nancy, for someone who has defended trinity throughout the game, I simply cannot fathom how you reversed her read on that. What is her scum motivaton? Why would she jump off the wagon, only to re-join it later? Her thinking it’s too scummy to be scum just seems to resonate with me. It doesn’t make sense, but like it’s not inherently scummy, is it? There’s also the matter of partners as you mentioned : P

There's a huge amount of scum motivation to vote the biggest wagon at a point where she is starting to be run up.

Why would she hop-off? And other people have been completely split on Oka all game as well. We consistently hang our minds on him, and just can’t come to a consensus.

I’m gonna look at the possible repercussions of all flips tomorrow morning when I’m able to think straight

[WhyMafia]

Yeah. Flip will do a lot. Sorry for being inactive so close to deadline, I'm having some rl issues -
I'll be able to respond to anything tomorrow

[WhyMafia]

Hmm

[WhyMafia]

I'm slightly hesitant to do another flash wagon this late
But I see what you're saying nancy
Do you no longer perceive Oka or Trinity as scum? Or are they still scum reads

[WhyMafia]

I don't like Oka's last post
It's way too shady and distracts from the two main wagons

[WhyMafia]

what on earth is that kill lol

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: Oka

[WhyMafia]

Congrats Micc!

[WhyMafia]

Yeah same Ice, I'm less confident on my town reads

[WhyMafia]

I don't like Nancy near the end of D1. She seemed kinda strange about the wagons, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't like her shifting of wagons, and wishy-washiness, so close to deadline. I feel like Oka's reasoning is relatively weak, and made to explain his NK on Flicker to get Eragon dead.

I want to see what Eragon is like today though.

[WhyMafia]

I hate how Oka waggled out of a Lynch multiple times ... when nobody really addressed how he ws town (correct me if I'm wrong)
@people who went away from Oka - can you re-itterate why?

[WhyMafia]

short answer - your response to nancy when she first voted you never comes from town lmao

I'll have a long answer later

[WhyMafia]

Everybody, get in here!

[WhyMafia]

Why are you less confident in your town reads?

Everyone's done things that are scummy. It's a matter of who's more consistently scummy now I suppose?

Yeah, I was trying to save Trinity, my mafia partner. You got me.

Why. On earth. Are you suspicious of Oka. For sharing your scumread. Do you understand that the people who think the same things as you are generally more likely to be town?

Because I also scum read Oka and feel his reasoning is off? I can't describe what specifically pings me and I'm sorry about that.

That's what I thought too. Except I just played in a game off-site where someone did exactly the same thing as Oka and they were town.

Interesting

[WhyMafia]

I expressed surprise Quick because I expected Nancy or iceman to be killed

Flicker wasn't even on my thoughts to die so ... how exactly is that scummy? You think it's a tell?

[WhyMafia]

Bleh I'm re-reading Oka and I might be tunneling him at this point /conf-biased.
I'm gonna re-read him again tomorrow as well. But like there's just some stuff I simply cannot get passed. There are things he's done that just screams scum to me ..

[WhyMafia]

See Oka, all that VCA you did? It's all predicated under the fact you're town, and the results from the VCA confused tf out of me. See, that analysis logically would make sense if you were scum and the wagons got manipulated to switch to trinity. But in that case, I'm still confused bc I can't see who you're partner would be.

[WhyMafia]

Yeah, I'll say which posts ping me really hard

[WhyMafia]

ay page-top
am I a cool kid now

[WhyMafia]

PREPARE YOURSELVES

FOR THE EPIC-EST OF EPIC POSTS

113 is the first thing that pinged me because it seemed sm like busy-work and just trying to force something
147 kind of confirmed what I thought where you say that you wanted to bait her. Like, she's new and I feel like you wanted her to say something that gives you justification to start a tunnel. Like your whole thing with that feels fake and forced. If you were town, you'd generally be looking for things that ping you, not trying to force people to try to say things that implicate a "slip"
Then 140 was far too early for PoE'ing to the two inactives?? To have that much confidence in your reads when your reasoning for the town reads are flimsy is just mind-boggling to me. It feels super complacent.

trinity is town because i don't see a new player interact that much and be scum

nancy ur town because i don't see you interacting that much to be scum

stanley feels like a rational town player

You're basically saying activity and making sense was the cause of your town reads. This, is incredibly lazy. And you only started truly scumhunting when pressure was raised against you? To me, you didn't try to do anything meaningful until after town basically Began pressuring you. You could've asked them questions on things that were happening in the game, or for their reads?
I see how in 169 you basically address everything I thought of. But still, that doesn't change the fact that you were trying to force something. Even if she did say she put him at L-2 for shits and giggles, I fail to see how that's indicative of scum. Someone quick-hammering would be awful, but that'd either be blatantly anti-town or just scum. L-2 creates juicy moments early game where it can potentially get the game moving.

Regarding your small push on Ice, it just feels again, so lazy and that you don't really have confidence in it. You don't try to understand why Ice would say the things he did and take into account how he could be thinking.
209 and 212 are both interesting bc you say you're bored by the game. Yet, you're not taking steps. You aren't asking for reads, trying to work with others. You're just coasting with your POE reads. The only proactive stuff you've done to this point is make a tiny push on Trinity that you took back, as well as this comment on Iceman.

259 - again you're just wanting other people to talk to you, but you're not taking that first step. You say you need to interact and build unique cases

pushing an unique case helps me get in the game and develop scumreads based on interaction with others.

but I haven't seen that
You did ask FF who he thought was scum, but you don't really follow up with that either


Alright
Your push on Trinity. Funny - you say she's not proactive and active and not trying to find scum, hence, she's scum. So far your trend has been pushing on the people who are either
A) newbies
or
B) relatively inactive

Your vote on 283 says you don't have any questions to Trinity. Hence to me it seems like you're just putting a vote and reasoning to just not be accused of not having a vote. It's like you were just looking for a scapegoat and found someone easy to push

450 I mean this kinda fits you ;P

Suddenly in 471 you're losing most of your town reads? From someone who consistently and repeatedly says nothing has pinged him? Wha?

In 624 you agree that you're lazy but vehemently deny that you sheep. Even though you are VERY wishy-washy on Flicker and say you see her as scum but won't push her cause Nancy is, and you say in 346 that you are a sheep.

And so your entire early game makes me think you're scum


BUT THEN

you completely change after you begin being a serious contender for a Lynch. You start asking questions, following up, leading. Why wasn't any of this prevalent before??? And when Nancy, who you considered pretty solid town with pretty solid influence, you go full on crazy and basically take Ice's viewpoint and go on an extreme, and really don't bring that kind of stuff after she unvotes you


I have to go now : (

[WhyMafia]

andddd I just convinced myself you're scum

[WhyMafia]

Gg everyone! This game was so chaotic and unbeliviably draining, but at the same time, quite fun! I just want to apologie for suddenly dropping out - I had a few things pop up that I needed to do, and would compromise my activity in this game

Kudos to town for pulling it together - Day 1 was quite chaotic but I’m glad to see we sorted things out. Sorry oka for tunneling you, in hindsight my push was a little silly but jeez, you confused me so much haha. Glad to see my other main scum read was actually scum

All the newbies were great and I hope to see you guys around the site and in other games. Oh and thanks for my replacement for making my slot not get lynched and for picking up a high activity game - kudos to you.

Nancy thanks for being obv town but ahhh I kept thinking if my town read was justified and if you were playing the long-con. Glad you weren’t

Anyways, Thanks for hosting micc!