Newbie 1879 | Stuff I found Online III | Over

[Shoshin]

Hello all, anyone want to give me a short summary of what's going on so far while I catch up?

[Shoshin]

I have Sash as strong town based on this page alone.

[Shoshin]

Let's try this.

VOTE: Wavemode

[Shoshin]

I couldn't care less if you were an IC.

117 clears Sasha. And Manatee feels townish from the one post I read.

Your apathy about finding the last scum, coupled with your attempt to excuse said apathy, isn't towny.

[Shoshin]

Stasia sounds like stasis. My vote has jinxed the game! Let's spice this up a bit.
VOTE: Shorty

To be honest this was a wolfy sheep vote on my slot(Shorty)

Since the RVP is ending, let's make a not-so-random vote.

VOTE: Sashaddin for bandwagoning.

I can agree with this but bandwagoning isn’t always bad

Do you think this is an interaction between two scum?

[Shoshin]

Sasha, who is the scum between Manatee and Wave?

[Shoshin]

Wave, do you have any scum games I could look at?

[Shoshin]

Besides Sasha's "sheep" onto Eragon, and Eragon calling it out, we also have these patterns:

176 - both Eragon & Sasha voting lynchbait (Stasia). In general, don't think both scum vote together on this without more town support.

241 - neither Eragon nor Sasha voted for the Puls mislynch. That's unlikely if they're scum/scum because one of them probably votes Puls.

[Shoshin]

ST(strong town)-{Osuka}
LT(Light town)-{manateedude, daskter, Pulsaris}
Null{Wavemode, Acid, sashaddin}
LS(light scum)-{Stasia}
SS(Strong scum)-{no one yet give me some spice}

I mostly agree, but I'd put Daskter as null as I am. I agree Stasia feels scummy and that no one appears

too

scummy. In light of all this,
VOTE: Stasia [L-2]

I find it hard to believe that Sasha makes no attempt to distance from Eragon at all, too.

[Shoshin]

461 is a bit of an overreaction to what I said. It's also very presumptuous and non-inquisitive about the actual reasoning of my read on Sasha, which I don't like at all.

[Shoshin]

Wave, I don't care too much about what "could" be, I'm looking for what's "probable."

[Shoshin]

Who said anything about casual interactions? I expect scum to interact. I don't think they talk about each other the way Eragon talked about Sasha, nor do I think they sheep each other's reasoning in the way Sasha sheeped Eragon. Yes, scum are capable of anything. But it's not probable.

I also don't your whole "you only suspect me because I'm an IC" bit. That's very presumptuous. I've played enough games of mafia (including a Newbie game) to know ICs aren't scummy (the IC in my recent Newbie game was town, and we won that game easily without ever lynching him). Why are you making that assumption when you don't even know me?

[Shoshin]

It's not lazy or nonsensical. What's lazy is your response, where you don't even try to make sense of what I'm saying. Like, you could ask questions about things instead of just presuming it's wrong.

[Shoshin]

A biased case? What are you talking about? I'm town.

[Shoshin]

Pretty massive overreaction on your part, Wave.

[Shoshin]

Idm being lynched, but I see no reason with sashaddin not being a suspect. I feel they've flown under the radar the wnole time.

Daskter and I want to lynch you, then Wave and I will probably shout each other out.
How do you see this?

After my lynch, I think your the obv choice for lynch, you've ridden this game too easily imo

These two posts felt very towny when I saw them. I didn't say what posts I was referring to that made me think Manatee was town, so it's a bit odd that Wave didn't ask.

These are towny because Manatee is playing without any inkling of self-preservation in a way that I think inexperienced players don't typically display.

[Shoshin]

Town cannot be biased? Do you know what bias means?

Cool. You're underestimating me. That's exactly where I want scum to be.

[Shoshin]

Hey Acid, when you're around let's discuss reads. I'd like your thoughts on what I'm saying.

[Shoshin]

Another reason to believe Sasha is town: 9 times out of 10, scum bus Eragon in that situation instead of sitting on the sidelines.

[Shoshin]

The fact that Wave so desperately doesn't want to allow me to townread Sasha is a bad look.

[Shoshin]

Wavemodes pushes on stasia feel scummy atm, considering I sont see anytying AI from her

Eragon is the one who was pushing Stasia... Mixing up his partner? Doubtful.

[Shoshin]

Wave, you need to start talking to me about probabilities because anything else is completely meaningless to me. Could newbies play like pros? Yes. Is it likely? No.

[Shoshin]

That's not an IC bias. And they're not barely scraping by. A lot of the things I'm pointing out would apply to experienced players as well.

[Shoshin]

How about engaging with the actual substance of what I'm saying instead of trying to discredit anything I say as IC bias? Regardless of your alignment, that isn't helpful.

[Shoshin]

Manatee, what's your take on Sasha vs Wave?

[Shoshin]

How so? Please elaborate.

[Shoshin]

Have you seen anything townish from Wave?

[Shoshin]

How so? Please elaborate.

Like they havent really contributed tooo much, but was never pushed and mostly ignored by eragon who always takes a stance on his buddies.

What do you mean that Eragon always takes a stance on his buddies?

[Shoshin]

Eragon
117/118 - goodposting. a lot of these comments rarely come from scum

Why'd you say this?

[Shoshin]

Eragon
117/118 - goodposting. a lot of these comments rarely come from scum

Why'd you say this?

partly for these, which struck me as someone actually trying to evaluate the content of the game rather than just trying to appear like they are doing so

>I am going to have a tough time reading Wavemode because normally I see posts like 71 as very towny, but then I realize wavemode is just doing his job so ;_;

also, I agree, bandwagoning Random is bad, but remember, stasia is new

Pulsaris-more or less mind-melding a lot

why would you understand a vote on yourself without any defense?

and partly, while i felt like his making a comment like calling osuka "out of the ballpark" townie for 91 was sort of naive and hasty (i for one know osuka can and does easily make posts like that as either alignment. in fact as scum more often than as town), i felt it not in a scummy or disingenuous way but in a newbtown way. i was also getting the sense in the early game that osuka was scum, and so it gave me a feeling that the two were probably not partners

I don't see anything here that "rarely comes from scum," if anything the opposite.

[Shoshin]

Wave, why were you reading Eragon as "newbtown" when he was playing the least newb-like of all the players?

[Shoshin]

Manatee, you're not making any sense...

[Shoshin]

Wave, why were you reading Eragon as "newbtown" when he was playing the least newb-like of all the players?

he wasn't, though, as i explained... he was just playing the most eager

I'm confused. Didn't you just saw he felt newbtown?

[Shoshin]

even scum do not usually call people "out of the ballpark" town for posts like 91 if they are experienced. because they recognize 91 is completely NAI. do you disagree?

I strongly disagree that scum recognize 91 as NAI. If anything, the way Eragon interpreted 91 is a massive scum-tell.

Scum aren't very good at recognizing what's AI because they read everything from an informed perspective. Eragon knew 91 came from town so he incorrectly interpreted it as towny.

[Shoshin]

I don't see anything here that "rarely comes from scum," if anything the opposite.

then you have very different experience with newbies than I. can you give examples?

No. You're the one who needs to show me you're town, not the other way around. I'd like to know why you think this rarely comes from scum.

[Shoshin]

If Eragon was newbtown, wouldn't his interpretation of 91 be scummy? Like, I don't get how you come to the opposite conclusion.

[Shoshin]

the only question for me was whether it was noobscum or noobtown. i decided the latter, because he struck me as earnest

Why'd he strike you as earnest?

[Shoshin]

No. You're the one who needs to show me you're town, not the other way around. I'd like to know why you think this rarely comes from scum.

How can I show you a negative? I rarely see these comments from scum in newbie games. That's been my experience. You clearly have a different experience?

What's the specific patterns that scum rarely do that you've seen town do before?

[Shoshin]

I have a hard time seeing how you read those comments as towny.

[Shoshin]

So explain it to me.

[Shoshin]

What's the specific pattern. What's he doing in a general sense that makes you think he's earnest?

[Shoshin]

I'm gonna go with the Wave lynch. If I'm wrong, so be it. Luckily, we have another day.

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE: Wave

[Shoshin]

You're bad at mafia.

That's funny.

[Shoshin]

Ugh, really not confident in scum!wave here

Why's Wave town?

[Shoshin]

Alright, Wave.

If you're town, we lynch Sasha.

Okay?

[Shoshin]

You put a bunch of effort into nullifying my townread on someone who you don't even scumread... while calling me bad at mafia... not sure how you expect me to townread you for that?

[Shoshin]

If he's scum he'll lynch me too, no?
I concede that switching my vote to Wavemode was not the smartest thing to do in this context. Sorry to let the team down!

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Wavemode for [L-1]
I would have liked Manatee first but as you said we still have another day to win.

Why do you prefer Manatee?

[Shoshin]

Manatee attracts frequently the attraction on me with weak reads.

I don't know what this means. Can you clarify?

He also never appeared too high on the town list of other people. He was the L-1 vote of Day 1 and Day 2.

Manatee was at L-1 on D1 and D2?

[Shoshin]

I never said their play was pro-town. But they each evidence town-tells that I didn't find anywhere in yours. You say you're helpful but that's not a town-tell. You say you're putting in effort, posting actively instead of skating by, but that's not a town-tell. You say this game is a massive departure from your scum meta, but that's not a town-tell if you know about it. Reading Eragon as town isn't a town-tell. Voting Eragon when you did isn't a town-tell. Like, what have you done that's so towny?

In Manatee's case, the way he confused his partner for you when discussing a wagon on lynchbait felt towny. You think he's faking that? Or that he actually confused you for his partner? I'm skeptical, because even newbscum usually keep track of who their partner is pushing. You say he's scummy because of 300 - what's scummy about it? He says you're his probable partner, but town get these things wrong all the time and now he's defending you, so I don't see how that's telling. What exactly are you seeing that I'm not?

Has Sasha done anything scummy? Why should I vote him over you?

[Shoshin]

557 directed at Wave.

[Shoshin]

I don't know what this means. Can you clarify?

The posts 394, 396, 423+425, 432, 489, 493. He speaks of me exclusively for all this time but the only reason he gives is that I was a wagon with someone else. I find it weak.

It's pretty weak, yeah.

[Shoshin]

Eragon is desperate and its becoming more and more apparent. Probable buddys with wavemode, for putting him in his Town bracket with little explanation.

VOTE: Eragon

Gg acid!

Idm being lynched, but I see no reason with sashaddin not being a suspect. I feel they've flown under the radar the wnole time.

VOTE: Sashaddin

Better now than never

If anything, this progression is a town-tell. Scum don't set up a mislynch on Wave to then suddenly vote Sasha at start of next day. Like, scum usually act with more of an agenda than that.

[Shoshin]

*clap* *clap* we've truly reached the mafia renaissance, boys. manatee locktown because he misread a name, or misremembered it briefly. I'm in awe

Example of scum doing this?

[Shoshin]

Besides coasting and doing next to nothing this game? Not taking a stance or posting at all on day 2 when Eragon fakeclaimed cop, then showing up minutes into twilight with "welp, guess the games solved now." Currently having extreme amounts of exactly what you claimed you scumread me for this gameday, which is apathy? Apathy to the game state, apathy to the lynch, apathy to evidence. I guess if the new mafia renaissance doesn't consider any of that scummy, I don't have much.

He's inexperienced and has a baby, so I don't expect much from him. Like, I've seen townies offer significantly less substance than he has this game.

[Shoshin]

Those names are pretty similar, so it's a plausible error. It's also probably TWIAM trying to fake a negative association, which he's known to do as scum (I know because I've been scum with him before).

[Shoshin]

He's inexperienced and has a baby, so I don't expect much from him.

Surely you realize that has no bearing on his alignment. Ask yourself, WHAT HAS HE DONE for you to be locktowning him

Yes, I'm away it has no bearing on his alignment. You're the one telling me it's scummy. I'm the one saying it's not.

I never said he's locktown. I suggest you actually put some more effort into reading what I've said instead of outright dismissing all of it while also misinterpreting large parts of what I'm saying.

[Shoshin]

If you were scum this game, what would you have done differently?

[Shoshin]

Wave, you're not going to convince me so if you're town I suggest you figure out who we lynch tomorrow. I'll give your analysis quite a bit of weight if you are in fact town.

[Shoshin]

Are you saying you would have intensely lurked as a scum IC? Where did you post in this game where you wouldn't have as scum?

[Shoshin]

ST(strong town)-{Osuka}
LT(Light town)-{manateedude, daskter, Pulsaris}
Null{Wavemode, Acid, sashaddin}
LS(light scum)-{Stasia}
SS(Strong scum)-{no one yet give me some spice}

I mostly agree, but I'd put Daskter as null as I am. I agree Stasia feels scummy and that no one appears

too

scummy. In light of all this,
VOTE: Stasia [L-2]

Why'd you bold "too"? At this point in the game, why'd you townread Osuka, Manatee, and Puls?

[Shoshin]

Ok back from shit, I think sashaddin is the scum here. Mainly because im getting good town vibes from eragon. It just feels like lynchbait and scum pushing an easy ML

VOTE: sashaddin

I don't see the link between Eragon and me. A search of our ISOs don't reveal anything significant. Why is your opinion of me based on him?

Why are you talking about a link between you and Eragon when Manatee didn't say anything about such a link?

[Shoshin]

How so? Please elaborate.

Like they havent really contributed tooo much, but was never pushed and mostly ignored by eragon who always takes a stance on his buddies.

What do you mean that Eragon always takes a stance on his buddies?

Thats his scum meta

How do you know Eragon's scum meta? Where have you seen him as scum besides this game?

[Shoshin]

Can you link your games and some of his as scum?

[Shoshin]

@Manatee

Why'd you read Eragon was town here? What was different from his play as scum?

[Shoshin]

I dunno, he seemed fairly active in the games you linked.

I still don't understand what you were saying about his stances. I read the game where you were scum with him and he never took a stance on you.... so why are you saying he takes stances on partners?

[Shoshin]

Manatee, why did you say Eragon takes stances on partners? You're not being clear about this, or about why you think Wave is town.

[Shoshin]

I don't get it. Eragon had Wave as null... so why is he town?

[Shoshin]

Draynth, what're your thoughts on Wave?

[Shoshin]

I'm not that convinced... I said we'd lynch Sasha after Wave...

I think Manatee/Sasha are both plausible partners to Eragon, but there's also these random hints of town in their posts that I don't see anywhere with Wave.

As a matter of probability, if you have scum among three players who are equally null, it's best to lynch the most competent player (i.e. Wave).

I think the way Wave reacted to me was a bit over-the-top. I'm having trouble picturing a townie getting that outraged over lynching him when he's barely making much of an effort to sort between Sasha/Manatee.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to know where you're seeeing town in Wave's posting.

[Shoshin]

I skimmed most of the past few pages so idk really, I'll go read them now

The 3 nulls thing is fine in theory, bad in literally any practical application, you never have 3 people that are equally null enough to just lolLynch the most competent player for the sake of it

Yeah, obviously. You have two townies and one scum. The question is who the scum is? We need to find the tells.

[Shoshin]

I'm rethinking Manatee after skimming his scum game.

[Shoshin]

Mantatee, can you link to your most recent town games?

[Shoshin]

The game I read, Manatee is quite confident/aggressive as scum, much more than here.

The biggest thing that pinged me is that he expresses multiple times that he doesn't mind being lynched when he came under some pressure, so the same non-survivalistic attitude I see here.

He's not as nooby as he seems in this game, which makes me think he could be faking it.

[Shoshin]

Eragon
117/118 - goodposting. a lot of these comments rarely come from scum

i want to call this slot town for now

DASKSTER MY BOY

MY BOY IS LOST

LOST IN THE WORLD

calling this noobtown

Stasia wagon is possibly scum lead/sheeped imo.

Ok back from shit, I think sashaddin is the scum here. Mainly because im getting good town vibes from eragon. It just feels like lynchbait and scum pushing an easy ML

VOTE: sashaddin

I guess I could see Stasia being Lynch bait...


but I'm not sure if that means that scum sheeped me for the Lynch

but probably enough to take off my vote

UNVOTE: Stasia

and I'm thinking good targets today are

{pulse, stasia, sasha}

This just doesn't seem like a scum/scum interaction.

[Shoshin]

I mean Manatee's 199 and Eragon's response in 200. Eragon's really deferential to Manatee in a way that makes it unlikely they're partners.

[Shoshin]

I dunno, I could be wrong. I'm not confident about anything this game.

[Shoshin]

If you lynch me just promise to lynch sasha

Why are you so sure it's Sasha over Wave?

[Shoshin]

Dray, why are you townreading Wave?

[Shoshin]

And what's scummy about Manatee?

[Shoshin]

I don't see how 300 looks like bussing. Anyone want to explain that?

[Shoshin]

If you want me to link you 50 examples of people bussing and overtly trying to draw associations between their partner and other people, I'd be happy to

And couldn't you do the same thing for clueless townies drawing associations?

[Shoshin]

I do it almost every game as town.

I've also seen lots of townies do it.

So that's not much of a scum-tell.

[Shoshin]

Dam, I suck. Can't read newbie behavior at all.