Newbie 1890 - Game Over

[Micc]

Hey everyone!

I'm the designated Inexperienced Challenged player for this game. This means I have volunteered to be a resource that newer players can use to answer questions about game mechanics or theory. The guidelines to my role as an IC are laid out in the wiki article titled Being a good IC.

My goals for this game are 1) to steer the game in the direction of being a reasonable representation of what you can expect from other games on this site and 2) to win. I will primarily be playing to accomplish these goals, but am more than happy to jump into teacher/mentor mode when players ask me questions about game mechanics or theory.

Enjoy the game!

[Micc]

VOTE: Saudade

I too would like to know how to pronounce that.

[Micc]

BYU lololol

Sorry, Minnesota fan here. I can't help it.

Shush. I’m trying to forget that happened.

I'm not sure actually... Putting someone up to three votes before they've even entered the thread seems a bit excessive to me.

What makes you think a third vote would be excessive at this point?

[Micc]

Mala's first few posts read pretty towny to me so far so I think I'll take my vote off her for now...

Can you be more specific about what looks Town to you?

Anyway:
VOTE: Micc
Admittedly nothing in his ISO so far is really jumping out at me yet, but I think that having a third wagon will create more room for discussion.

Can you tell me more about why you think a third wagon will help here? You don’t seem to believe I’m scum any more than the rest of the players nor do you bring up discussion points yourself. So how’s this helping?

[Micc]

Those reasons feel extremely forced. How much expierence do you have playing mafia and similar games?

Mala is almost certainally receding to this game.

Predit: all that in response to Egix.

[Micc]

oh no my phone auto corrected. I must be Town.

[Micc]

VOTE: 2.718

Awkward entrance was awkward. Him having SE experience doesn't seem relevant to any of the conversations going on and Lafayette's post 49 is a weird choice for the one thing he comments on before being done. I'm also interested to hear what he thinks could be scummy about Egix cause all I see is townspewing from him so far.

[Micc]

I guess I don't find that post interesting at all. Talking about theory is really easy because your opinions about theory don't really change based on what alignment you are. So that's quite possibly the last post in the thread I'd use to try and for a read.

[Micc]

I'll disagree with you on that, Micc. While yes, your beliefs about theory won't change from game to game, your willingness to go out and lay out the theory for Newbies likely would. Example: allowing a Newbie to hammer someone for you without announcing intent and then subtly directing town to a retaliation Lynch would be a good reason for scum to withhold that type of post. It's in town's interest to warn against that possibility.

Reads definitely can, should, and do change, but for now I read that post by Lafayette as coming from town more often than from scum.

If you're concerned about the possibility of someone hammering without intent, do you mind explaining why you didn't make a warning yourself? Perhaps you weren't willing to because you're not town? Perhaps I'm not town because I'm the IC and I didn't give these warnings?

[Micc]

I think it's hard to make the case that Lafayette's post comes from

scum more often than from town or from

both equally often.

But this case is really easy to make.

Post's like Lafayette's 49 are beneficial to make as scum because a) they don't have to lie about their opinions on mafia theory and b) looking genuinely helpful often earns town reads like the one you gave. Of course Lafayette's 49 is also beneficial to make as town for the reasons you outlined. The point I'm trying to make being that Lafayette's post could easily go either way, which is exactly the kind of post I don't want to be forming reads from.

[Micc]

moar votes on 2.7 please.

[Micc]

Don't mind that.

just look at the part where he calls my play pro town, says he doesn't want to start forming reads until page 7 and then calls everyone neutral. That's not a natural progression of thoughts to have in quick succession.

[Micc]

maybe we should spam the thread to page 7 so that he has enough content to form reads with.

[Micc]

No one said anything out of line. Egix's reaction certainly was weird, and I hope he's ok, but its nothing to dwell on. This game isn't for everybody.

I think he's town and you guys are silly for wanting to vote him.

Laf, whats the one sentence case against mala here?

[Micc]

let him comment on it and then you answer the question after please

Advice time: This is a good habit to get into for any time someone directly asks someone else a question. The person's answer becomes a lot less useful if you think it's been influenced by someone else's comments.

I don't have a problem with the push on mala. It's not the direction want to go right now but I could see coming back to it later.

[Micc]

2.7 do you mind addressing why you replaced into a game you don't have time to play?

[Micc]

ninja, who's your biggest town read?

[Micc]

I think if you consider 2.7's site activity outside of this game you can make a case for him doing the same things you're pushing mala for. Except mala has actually stated some opinions that matter and 2.7 hasn't really done that.

[Micc]

How much Mafia expierence do you have alpaca?

[Micc]

@Micc: Who other than 2.718 isn't null to you?

Egix slot is strong Town.
Lafayette, saudade and mala are moving out of the lynch pool for today but not quite there.
Everybody else needs to be sorted yet.

[Micc]

Mala, are you giving intent to hammer anytime soon?

[Micc]

If he was scum he would have gotten anxious and self destructed in the mafia thread not here. It’s also pretty clear he wasn’t being coached.

[Micc]

If he was scum he would have gotten anxious and self destructed in the mafia thread not here. It’s also pretty clear he wasn’t being coached.

What if he self-destructed in both?

You’re essentially arguing that his illogical behavior almost certainly followed a logical pattern. To me, the location of where he freaked out is far less interesting than the fact that he did in the first place.

I don't think there's anything illogical about his behavior. He signed up to play a game of mafia without really knowing what it was about. Stuff happened and he decided the game isn't for him and replaced out. That happens all the time.

But the pushes he was making while he was here and his reaction to being pushed are classic examples of brand new town player. I don't really know what else to say about it besides that I've moderated and played in enough newbies over the last 4 years to feel pretty confident about understanding the mindset of a brand new player. When brand new players meet opposition for the first time as town they sometimes freak out. When their scum they know it's eventually coming and expect it which leads to way less of a freak out - especially in the game thread.

Slot is town for today. I'm willing to reconsider at a different point but day 1 is all about narrowing the lynch pool as quickly as possible. I think I've got my lynch pool narrowed down to acrimoniusalpaca/SuperfluousNinja/2 718281828459/Light Ethos. That's contingent on the fact that I only skimmed the 2 pages that you all made since I last posted and have to come back to it because had a really hard time following the conversation because pronouns are hard.

[Micc]

In fact, let me get to my reads right now.

yeah that would be sweet.

unfortunately your post ended before it happened.

[Micc]

1. Do you (still) think I am scum? Why or why not?
2. Who else are your strongest reads?
3. Do you agree with what I wrote so far? I would always value constructive criticism.

1. Yeah. Your analysis doesn't look like something that came from an hour of looking at the thread. In that time I'd think you'd have come across the answer to number 2 for the large majority of the playerlist. I'm also concerned that you don't seem to understand the case against you, nor are you making an effort understand and debunk it. Seems like you'd rather hand wave it away by complaining about not having enough time to play a game you subbed into.

2. Post 276 has a pretty good summary of my reads as does post 218.

3. nah. I disagree with 2 of your 3 reads and none of the reasons you gave are things I think are notably indicative of alignment.

[Micc]

In fact, I put Saudade as a 3, but seeing the comment about Saudade pretending to be Mala and failing made me take off a quarter point.

Like I don't even know what this is a reference to and I iso'd both and control+F searched for the other's name.

And your making a read off it.

[Micc]

Shame on y’all for pushing 2.7 and then not actually responding to his post or answering his questions.

[Micc]

Which do you agree with? I can't even make sense of the Egix one.

Uhh, him and I are both reading mala as town. I thought I had stated reads my reads pretty clearly so I didn't expect that to be hard to hash out.

I mean, most people are either reading me as scum because of either (A) the joke post or (B) not having good quality posts for the most part. And my post quality will increase -- I just had a bit too much those three days, and since they are behind me now, I can start being more productive.

My biggest problem is that your reads and pushes don't line up with what I'd expect from town player who is short on time. The things you chose to comment on first aren't the major topics of discussion or the things I find important. The large majority of the reads I'm seeing from you are based off things I would never factor into my reads. My push has nothing to do with the joke post and general quality doesn't quite describe it either. It's more so that everything you're posting looks unnatural/fake/contrived - whatever you want to call it.

Do me a favor and drop the in depth ISO dives and just read the game thread in sequential order or at least as much of the recent posts as you have time for. Follow the references and quotes back to the original posts if you don't understand the context. Then give us 2-3 sentences worth of explanation for your read on each player.

predit: and you posted more as I was typing this and/or distracted with work. Looks like you're moving in the right direction but I want to understand the saudade vote better. What isn't he doing that you think he should be if he's town. How does not doing those things help him win as scum?

[Micc]

VOTE: acrimoniusalpaca

2.7 deserves some space and the Saudade wagon is not where I want to be. We need more from alpaca and I was disappointed to see he's been online since his last post when I just looked.

[Micc]

ahh to be fair I couldn't really either. I was just going by the scoring system.

[Micc]

2.7 deserves some space

Why does any player deserve space? This sounds like you aren't confident in your read, or like you wanted to start a distancing wagon on 2.718. Your previous post says that you find that his actions are not what you expect from a town player. You then switch your vote to someone inactive, saying that 2.718 deserves some space. What has 2.718 done to deserve space? If you're unsatisfied with his response, why should he be given a pass?

That being said, pressure on Alpaca, Malakittens, or Egix's slot is something I can get behind too because they haven't done much in terms of proactivity.

Because until the mod flips their role everybody has a non zero chance of being town and town players deserve a chance to be heard.

If you're not giving your scum reads room to say what they want to say or making an open minded effort to listen then you're tunneling. I want to hear 2.7's thoughts on the game not him defending himself from being pressured so my vote change reflects that.

@micc: what makes you town read me?

Our reads seem to be lining up. That combining with my familiarity of you means you're not in the lynch pool for today although I wish you were a little more open about reasons behind your reads.

[Micc]

and the only way to truly compel someone to speak is under the threat of the hammer.

Yeah, I learned the game under this mindset too. The more I play/mod/spectate the more I see the value in working with people and not against them - even your scum reads.

It's like when your parents threaten punishment for not cleaning your room and you get in a big fight because you'd rather they talk to you like a human being.

I don't want to get in a fight with 2.7 about whether he's scum or not. I want to hear what he has to say about the rest of the game. it's probably going to be easier for him to do that while not under threat of the hammer.

What reads? Player reads or reads of posts?

Not actually sure what you're asking here but I feel like I understand what mala's reads are. I lack some understanding about how she is making those reads.

[Micc]

Does your vote on Lafayette mean that you are now scum reading him, or is it simply retaliation?

I'm choosing not to answer this. But no it's not just retaliation.

This bothers me.

If you're voting someone you best be ready to speak to why.
If it's

not just

retaliation, then does it follow that retaliation is a part of the reasoning?

[Micc]

OK I know I'm posting a lot, but one more thing from me.

If you're voting someone you best be ready to speak to why.

I 100% disagree with this statement. People are absolutely allowed to cast their votes for their own reasons and do NOT need to explain exactly what they are doing with their votes. In my case you foiled my strategy and I'm still kind of irked about that.

I mean if you’re actively pressuring someone about their play being scummy I’m going to be mindful of that and probably let you do your thing. But you can’t put a vote on somebody and expect it’s going to change their posting style.

[Micc]

VOTE: Theholyspirit

welcome to the game btw. who's your biggest town read?

[Micc]

Prod dodge I guess.

I’m here but the people I want to talk to aren’t. Hopefully tomorrow is more productive.

[Micc]

also if you don't know where my reads stand you should read the thread more because ive been pretty clear about what my lynch pool is

[Micc]

Slot is town for today. I'm willing to reconsider at a different point but day 1 is all about narrowing the lynch pool as quickly as possible. I think I've got my lynch pool narrowed down to acrimoniusalpaca/SuperfluousNinja/2 718281828459/Light Ethos. That's contingent on the fact that I only skimmed the 2 pages that you all made since I last posted and have to come back to it because had a really hard time following the conversation because pronouns are hard.

There was this too but tbh thats farther back than i realized. Ninja, you're trending town because I thought your post 398/398 were a pure frustrated town reaction that would be hard to fake as scum. Your reads are decently far off mine tho so that still gives me pause.

TheHolySpirit's replace in posts were garbage and my immediate reaction was to push that. I realized after making the vote that the replacement was for the Egix slot that I had been town reading but that didn't stop me from wanting to pressure the weak replace in.

I'm probably lynching between 2.7 and alien/alpaca slot today. I could be persuaded towards Light Ethos but I don't think that's actually on the table with where peoples reads are at. Alien needs to get here and make some posts. Hopefully they look good because I'm thinking 2.7 is the right lynch but it's hard to justify over a slot that hasn't contributed anything to the game.

predit: yup yup explained that above.

[Micc]

UNVOTE: theholyspirit
VOTE: 2.7

[Micc]

welcome alien.
what did you learn from your vote analysis?

[Micc]

so we've got 2 and a half days until the deadline. Who you voting for?

[Micc]

How does a player's experience impact your reads?
Can you give some more details about why you think 2.7 is scummy?

[Micc]

choo choo goes the wagon.

[Micc]

those things do appear to be true. Do those things impact your reads?

[Micc]

Who are you asking that question?

[Micc]

those things do appear to be true. Do those things impact your reads?

Were you asking me this question? You said this after I summarized the voting situation on 2.718. No, that doesn’t impact my reads...not sure why it would?

You seemed eager to talk to literally anyone about anything. I assumed by posting those things in the thread you had something you wanted to say about them - or at least that they meant something to how you're thinking about the game.

@Micc: That question is to whoever knows. Primarily Light Ethos, but unless this whole deal is something entirely made up, then someone else should also know what I would be missing.

I mean I don't really know what the contradiction is either, but I didn't think anyone was pushing contradiction in their case against mala. /Shrug i guess.

I would do more ISO reads but every time I have tried that sort of thing (i.e. looking at every ISO and coming up with a read) my posts get heavy criticism for not being helpful or something. For me at least, this game seems to have a very low signal to noise ratio, and it is making forming legit reads quite difficult.

Have you tried stating some your opinions instead of asking questions to no one in particular or posting summaries or things people already read? How about you give me the one thing youre most confident about in this game?

[Micc]

I would say Alien’s contributions have moved him well out of lynch territory. Does that make Light Ethos your #2 scumspect then??

What’s your reasoning for suspecting Light Ethos? You seem to be the only one who does, so I’m curious where this is coming from.

He hasn’t stood out as Town to me. I haven’t liked his reads all that much. Even in areas where we were voting together he was the person on the wagon I thought was most likely to be scum. Sure he can be #2 by default, but I’m pretty set on 1.7 right now.

Let’s see who I can get to join this wagon. It’s for a guy who has just been obstinate, uncooperative, combative, and pretty much the exact opposite of what he promised to be at the start of the game with no logical explanation as to why. Not to mention his post count is substantially lower than the far more obvious townies.

VOTE: Micc

Wow that’s harsh. Do you have examples posts of me of me doing these things that you can pull out? Cause this just looks like you grabbing a bunch of accusations out of a hat to see how I react.

[Micc]

I should also say that with under 2 days left we should have an intent to hammer already and any of you on your own vanity push need to either come back to reality or make an incredibly compelling case for why people should join you. This lynch appears to be between 2.7 and mala. All I really have to say about mala is that my understanding of her meta/personality is that she doesn’t fake this town slip if she’s scum. Also she’s as stubbornly passive in the early parts of every other game as she is here. Let’s get that 2.7 wagon back to l-1 and get a claim.

If he was scum he would have gotten anxious and self destructed in the mafia thread not here. It’s also pretty clear he wasn’t being coached.

Uh that’s if mafia have day talk imo

[Micc]

Yeah I don’t feel bad about any of those posts except maybe the one where I brushed off talking about my reads. You seem to be taking my confidence that I know what I’m doing and my willingness to offer advice about how this game works as me being a jerk. You’re welcome to think what you want I guess but woofty finding the right balance between playing/teaching/learning myself and tying them together isn’t easy. I do what I can.

Can you explain why doing these things helps me win as scum because I don’t see any of them as particularly scummy. But I guess I’m biased.

[Micc]

So how does me suggesting that anyone who puts down a vote should be ready to explain it willfully resist moving the game forward?
How does suggesting that stating ones opinions is more productive than asking questions to no one in particular willfully resist moving the game forward?
How does suggesting that being the only person on a wagon with <2 days isn’t productive willfully resist moving the game forward?

Like these are all instances of me giving advice to people specifically because it will help them play better and thus move the game forward. I’m sorry if you didn’t like the tone of my posts, but I think you’re silly for pushing them as scummy here.

[Micc]

I don’t think that 2 days is too little time to consider anything else. Though maybe at the pace at which people participate, it is a limited amount of time?

Think about all the things that can happen before a lynch. Player A goes to l-1. Someone gives intent. Player A claims power. Everyone needs to counterclaim/not counterclaim. Player B goes to L-1. Someone gives intent. Player B claims. Hopefully at that point you have a lynch but tbh Player B might claim power too and then it’s a real mess.

I’m telling you, and it’s a fact not an opinion, that it takes more than 2 days to go through this process. We’re probably getting some sort of an extension if THS is replaced, but that doesn’t mean we have forever.

[Micc]

Well I'm town reading mala so I didn't like your push there. Your 2.7 read seemed to be primarily based on not liking 2.7 comment on Saudade's joke and I think thats a non factor despite liking 2.7 as a scum read. When wagons build quickly one of the things I ask myself is which vote looks like scum piling on for a mislynch and I think that vote is you for the early 2.7 wagon that went to L-1 and for the mala wagon that went to L-2. Even the really early Egix wagon although to a lesser extent.

2 718281828459 (4) - Micc, Saudade, SuperfluousNinja, Light Ethos

Malakittens (3) - Lafayette, Light Ethos, SuperfluousNinja

[Micc]

uhh I highly doubt that. If you have a theory belief that town players should give a warning when making a L-1 then you'll do it as scum to maintain your town meta.

Playing at as scum at a high level means mimicking your town play not tricking newbies into bad hammers because they're not paying attention to the votecount.

Predit: ^response to Light Ethos

[Micc]

Hmm that's interesting. Makes me wonder where you draw the line.

Would you immediately hammer a town player who is put to L-1 if you were scum? If not why wouldn't you?

[Micc]

Yeah, learning moment incoming. just let me build to it.

[Micc]

Ok. You’re now on record as having said that you would not announce an L-1 you made as scum. It’s out there for everyone to see. Once this game is over people will even be able to link it and use it as evidence. Does that change whether you will announce or not when you put a player to L-1 as scum?

[Micc]

ehh shit. somebody sell me on this alien wagon.

I'm feeling lost enough that I'd rather start with a fresh mind and see where things go but if there's a compelling case I'm willing to hear it.

predit: well yeah. im gunna let him speak to the hammer before commenting myself.

[Micc]

ninja, what part of "I'm going to let him speak to the hammer before posting my thoughts" did you not understand?

[Micc]

ninja, what part of "I'm going to let him speak to the hammer before posting my thoughts" did you not understand?

I'm not sure you're even talking to the right person here? I don't even understand who "him" is in this context. Who are you letting speak to Alien? How did I get in the way of it? How did I get in YOUR way of it? What did I say to you to get in the way of you doing this? I'm extremely confused by this hostility here.

When you comment on things like you did in 641 youre giving the person who the whole game wants to hear from information about how you expect them to justify their actions. It's like saying hey I think you're scummy for doing this thing, but if your reasoning is blahblabla then I guess its not so bad. They're going to come to the thread and use blahblabla as justification but the rest of us never know what the true reaction would have been.

I'm sorry if my post came off as being dickish. I was generally annoyed and wanted to convey that in the 30 seconds I have to write posts between doing work things, but my intention for that post is never for it to be taken as a personal attack.

[Micc]

Howvere, if the other power role wants to claim too we can at least get one scum this round.

Saudade needs to claim before anyone else and we go from there.

I guess i'll be back when that happens.

[Micc]

Pretty sure the best way to proceed here is mass claim because that nearly guarantees we lynch the correct half of alien/saudade today. That leaves us with a 4v1 which is a decent place to be and depending on the setup might have a confirmed town.

Also, pease stop calling each other names.

[Micc]

oh and I don't think aliens hammer was as bad as the consensus seems to be.

If its 4v4 with less than a day on the deadline and the only person not voting is one of the wagons....they're gunna vote for the wagon that isn't them. And if they're a power role the have reason to protect themselves by making sure no one else flips and forces them to claim. Yeah we were probably getting some kind of a time extension with the replacement, but I'd also argue that 2.7's silence after being at L-1 that long with the deadline winding down was a vanilla claim.

alien coming out day 2 is fine imo too. He's clearly being pressured and he has a meaningful result that is hard to crumb accurately. Those are good reasons to claim. After further thinking I'm doubling down on my belief that we should mass claim - probably popcorn style starting with almost 50 since he claimed for no reason already.

predit: no. if the setup is actually cop plus doc that would be pretty bad for us since Neapolitan can exist with both.

[Micc]

and we want a cop plus doc setup to be public anyway because it leads to a confirmed town in the 4v1 which is the best we're going to get out of today.

[Micc]

and we want a cop plus doc setup to be public anyway because it leads to a confirmed town in the 4v1 which is the best we're going to get out of today.

Not sure I follow who is in the 4v1? There’s 5 town and 2 scum, yes?

After we mass claim today we will have solved who is scum in Saudade/alien and lynched them. Then mafia kill one of our PR's leading to tomorrow being 4v1.

Doesn't it hurt us to out the other PR if it's JUST a Doc or Cop, though?

Cop only is the worst case scenario because it leaves today's lynch unclear but they will have a result to give us which is useful. A doc is always with another pr so it would confirm alien as town.

no. if the setup is actually cop plus doc that would be pretty bad for us since Neapolitan can exist with both.

No it can’t. If we have 1 Cop AND 1 Doctor, Neapolitan isn’t possible.

I'm saying Neapoliation exists with a cop and with a doc in seperate setups, not them all existing together in a setup. We don't want a cop and doc each staying quite because they complement aliens claim. THats real bad for us.

[Micc]

If a Cop and Doc both claim and Alien flips Neopolitain then Suadade is scum for counterclaiming alien and the other mafia is between the cop and the doc. we'd have a 50/50 chance at 3 player lylo not to mention the 50/50 chance saudade is the mafia pr that confirms witch setup we are in. thats also a fine place to be.

@laf

[Micc]

Is this enough rationale to assume we can trust any power role claim at this point? Any thoughts / feedback??

yeah pretty much, which is why i'm advocating for mass claim here. There are a lot of scenarios, but none of them turn out too badly if we mass claim here. People usually turn up their noses at day 2 mass claim, but its actually really powerful in micro sized semi open setups like this one. A lot of the town's power in open setups comes from generating clears from claims and early mass claim is a good way to make sure town actually gets either cleared townies or catches scum beofre lylo.

[Micc]

ideally yeah. i'm not sure how important the popcorning really is here. let me think about it for a sec

[Micc]

yes. the idea is that you pick your scum reads to claim first because you want your scum reads to lock themselves into a claim and not have flexibility. I think potentially cutting off scum's possibility to get the endgame they want here is worth taking a little extra time to popcorn here.

imo opinion almost 50 go ahead and say who you want to popcorn to.

[Micc]

Yeah but if it matters then it’s worth it. My expierence is also that almost 50 is pretty reasonably active so it shouldn’t be too long.

[Micc]

Oh whoops. Almost 50 is another player who I somehow managed to mix up with not known 15. Something something dick avatars and numbers in names.

Context matters a lot for that Lafayette. I’d say actions should be held in the case because that’s safest, but I’m having a hard time coming up with a senario it makes a huge difference.

[Micc]

Uhh duck avatars not dick avatars.

I’m putting my phone down and eating my lunch before this gets any more embarrassing.

[Micc]

I'm VT, so we have:

Lafayette - VT
Not Known 15 - VT
alien - Neapolitan (Saudade non VT)
SuperfluousNinja - Cop (Micc Town)

2 718281828459 - VT
Light Ethos - VT

Saudade - VT
Malakittens - VT
Micc - VT

I was really hoping one of you would screw up and claim Doctor. I was going to claim vanilla town and then watch as we all wished you farewell and an honorable death since clearly that’s who scum would kill, only to find you alive on day 3. Would have been a glorious moment.

Do you realize this is throwing the game if the doctor claim is actually a doctor and your plan causes us to think alien is confirmed town and lynch Saudade?

[Micc]

I believe this makes ninja confirmed town which makes me confirmed town. Does leave today's lynch is still up in the air. Going to think on it for a bit.

One's always dying tonight and if alien is town then a roleblocker exissts. Only scenario where we have any cops going forward is if saudade is the roleblocker.

[Micc]

tbh I want not known's catchup before moving to much father today.

[Micc]

Why is today's lynch in the air? Only way Alien is scum is if we're in a C world and they took a giant gamble.

Pedit: good idea

that could totally be the world we are in. I just haven't been able to sit down and think on this since I woke up today and I want to do that.

[Micc]

ohhh, wait are you sure? I thought if you were mafia and had a role, you'd either have to kill or use your night action? Rules must be different here then where I played before. I'll read the rules.

That's a very good question!

@huntress - can you answer?

mafia can always use their personal ability and carry out the kill in this setup. its in their sample pm's.

[Micc]

hey lots of posts that I've only skimmed. I've got a busy weekend but I intend to sit down and take a good look at this tomorrow afternoon and put a vote down. I think I'm on board with the saudade lynch but it's certainly not locked in. Getting today's lynch right is important to get two tries at the other pool of suspects.

[Micc]

I want more from not known before I speak on the mala/laf/not known group. I’m willing to wait about 12 hours for that but otherwise I’m hammering Saudade. Also if I die tonight things have gone horribly wrong.

[Micc]

Hah even better. MTG prerelease weekend.

VOTE: Saudade

See y’all tomorrow.

[Micc]

Oh I didn’t realize there was still contention regarding today’s lynch. I’ve got like 10 minutes to read back and reconsider but after that I’m moving on with my day.

UNVOTE:

[Micc]

VOTE: Saudade

I have not been swayed.

[Micc]

Oh cool we won. Still busy playing magic today so I’ll be here to talk about the game tomorrow.

[Micc]

Yeah this particular setup is incredibly difficult to navigate for scum. If they don't find power before Day 2 starts the amount of town clears is already nearly insurmountable. Hopefully the game still served its purpose of getting everyone some experience or things to learn from.

I've got to work in like 5 hours so I'm going to bed but I promise to be back to talk more about the game tomorrow.

[Micc]

I intend to post some thoughts on this game tonight. Sorry for the delay. Working first shift last week messed with my schedule pretty significantly and I spent way more time watching sports and recovering this weekend than I had originally planned.