Newbie 1890 - Game Over

[SuperfluousNinja]

Hey everyone!

I'm the designated Inexperienced Challenged player for this game. This means I have volunteered to be a resource that newer players can use to answer questions about game mechanics or theory. The guidelines to my role as an IC are laid out in the wiki article titled Being a good IC.

My goals for this game are 1) to steer the game in the direction of being a reasonable representation of what you can expect from other games on this site and 2) to win. I will primarily be playing to accomplish these goals, but am more than happy to jump into teacher/mentor mode when players ask me questions about game mechanics or theory.

Enjoy the game!

BYU lololol

Sorry, Minnesota fan here. I can't help it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

This is my first game here. I've played mafia on personalitycafe.com and quite a bit on Starcraft 2, though the latter is nothing like forum versions really.

Looking forward to playing with y'all

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Malakittens

"Most cunning manipulator"? Should I be scared? And / or trust anything you say?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Welcome newbies good luck and have fun

Thanks brotato chip!

[SuperfluousNinja]

What are your objectives in the early game? Question goes for Egix but really a question for everyone.

Hmm, mostly I want to get a feel for how everyone presents themselves here and see if the way you guys make your points / accusations is similar to other places I'm used to. I have a tendency to be a fairly aggressive player and usually focus all my energy on just 1 or 2 people, but that strategy both arouses lots of suspicion and tends to rub people the wrong way.

To me, first day is all about being able to suss out alignment purely based on one's ability to read into what someone is really trying to say. Day 1 is the hardest day to some folks, but to me it gets harder as the game goes on as it then becomes very possible that you've been manipulated and someone's led you astray.

I just plan on keeping my cool as much as possible. I may get really involved...just depends on how things go. I do have a regular day job though not an overly demanding one, so I can still poke in here during the day. I'm CST and heading off to work right now.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Egix96

Are you normally this...analytical? Maybe it’s just the lack of content for now and making what you can out of what you have?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Egix96

Are you normally this...analytical?

Is there something wrong with being analytical? I agree that right now, there isn't much of substance to look at, but when this thread has 10 pages or so of content, there will likely be plenty that will require careful consideration.

No, there's nothing wrong at all with being analytical. Being hyper-analytical with like 2 pieces of evidence? That's a little odd. I have to think about how that's useful for town to reach such early conclusions and weigh that against whether it seems like more of an effort to sway the discussion in a direction that isn't helpful for town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Just wanna say that I am going to leave the thread until tomorrow morning. I personally now believe that it was a huge mistake for be so naive regarding Malakittens and that I should have just kept my vote on her. It's your own choice whether you believe the following statement or not, but

I am just a clueless townie

who has no idea what he's doing. Hopefully tomorrow I will be in the right frame of mind to continue posting.

Goodnight everyone

IMO, you repeatedly pointing out that you are town is not helping your cause. Why is a townie so eager to point out he's a townie? We aren't exactly at a point where that's a huge deal just yet; all the townies are still alive. This just feels weird.

VOTE: VOTE: Egix96

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: 2.718

Awkward entrance was awkward. Him having SE experience doesn't seem relevant to any of the conversations going on and Lafayette's post 49 is a weird choice for the one thing he comments on before being done. I'm also interested to hear what he thinks could be scummy about Egix cause all I see is townspewing from him so far.

E wasn't the first one to highlight post 49 though. Light Ethos had highlighted it earlier; I assumed E was just piggybacking off of what Light Ethos said:

You can trust me I promise. I’m just a small cuddly person.

This was probably a joke, but I'll put it on record that I didn't like it.

I'll also go on record to say that while I didn't agree with all of it,

I liked where Lafayette's Post 49 is coming from

. Solid early town read for me. Scum here has a strong incentive to take advantage of newer players' propensity to see consensus on someone and vote without leaving room for discussion. Now nobody has an excuse to do that this game.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Micc

To follow up on that, I guess I don't see why post 49 was so odd to highlight? It was the most comprehensive and most interesting post that anyone has contributed so far and was even kinda revealing some of his playstyle. Can you explain why you think it's odd to talk about?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yeah me no likey. I’ve been mulling it over myself and it just seems incredibly odd to point out who could be power town. Doesn’t help town in the slightest to point that out.

And I don’t really buy “everyone is at a 4”. I certainly don’t have firm convictions but I at least have plenty of 5s and 3s at the very least.

VOTE: 2.718

[SuperfluousNinja]

If he's scum and really thinks it was a PR slip, what's the purpose of saying so in the game thread? Is he just really bad at being scum? I'm not seeing this.

If he actually is scum, is this some serious shade?

[SuperfluousNinja]

What I'm saying is that it'll be absolutely hilarious if we ended the day by page 5 with a scum lynch

a page 5 town lynch would be quite funny too to be honest

Okay, okay, I just got a bit tilted, that's all.

I think we can all agree that this game has been a bit of a s***storm so far, and you can blame me for it all. That's right, I claim full responsibility for all this. It's all my fault.

I get that subbing out right now would be an option but I personally think it would not be fair at all on whomever subbed into my slot. No one should be made to suffer like that IMO.

I think the next most painless option is for me to say I am perfectly fine with being lynched D1 this game. It's what I deserve after all this anyway. I am just an incompetent idiot who doesn't know how to play the game. Wanna find out whether or not I've been being honest this whole time? Go ahead, you know what to do.

Bye

Okay dude, you really need to take a deep breath here and RELAX. The heat isn’t on you at all right now. Once you’ve caught up, you’ll see that 2.718 made a pretty big slip and is now just one vote away from lynchville. We’re kinda on standby right now until he explains to us why he dropped a hint that saudade could be power town, a hint that could really only help scum.

I was like you in my first mafia game, panicking when I realized I had gotten people’s attention and even got VOTED ON. But it’s normal for vote wagons to move from person to person during the course of the day. You have to learn that getting votes isn’t a huge deal, that saying something that unintentionally comes across as scummy is just something that happens even when you’re innocent...it happens.

I’m going to look suspicious and coachy by saying all this, but eh, it’s a newbie game and you did what I did when I got votes the first time. Plus the game will be more interesting if you keep your head in it and realign your approach a bit.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Unfortunately that kind of decision strongly suggests scum IMO. He probably thinks that getting support now is unethical since he’s getting it from people not on his team. If he were town, this reaction just makes no sense in my mind.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I only say “unfortunately” because I feel for Egix and I’m sure he’s trying to help by doing this, but I kinda think this is accomplishing the obvious.

Just need to say that before anyone thinks that my identification of scum is “unfortunate” because I am also scum. Don’t worry, I am not that dumb.

[SuperfluousNinja]

*accomplishing the opposite

[SuperfluousNinja]

In the meantime....2.718, where you at??

[SuperfluousNinja]

I still have zero idea why Egix panicked and left. It's possible that he saw his partner get pressure and got scared. It's strange to me that a 22-year-old would go into full self-destruct mode without people having a train on him.

Well he did at one point have two votes on him. He likely acknowledged that things he said were drawing too much suspicion and saw that it was actively working against him. As a new player, I can understand getting worked up about that. But after 1) the train very clearly shifted off him onto someone else 2) we tried to talk him down and assure him that he should be fine, he did the opposite of what I’d expect a townie to do which is to calm down and realize that everything is fine and back to normal. It is, IMO, fairly obvious why newbie scum who already aroused suspicion in the first few pages would lose his cool.

BTW, saying “I don’t know why a 22 year old would self destruct” is kinda venturing into personal attack territory. The way you phrased it had nothing to do with game analysis. Just my two cents...

[SuperfluousNinja]

I've had players direct comments at me that were actual personal attacks. I stand by what I said. He had two players come to his defense to talk him down, and he still threw a tantrum.

Okay, but if it happened to you, it’s still not okay. We don’t need to be doing this to the guy.

[SuperfluousNinja]

It is, IMO, fairly obvious why newbie scum who already aroused suspicion in the first few pages would lose his cool.

Egix is my second scum candidate. The outburst by itself wasn't alignment indicative. I think that the outburst in combination with being primarily paranoid about looking like town instead of looking at other players critically is scummy. It's possible that Egix just lacks confidence as a personality trait, but until I see worse play stick out to me, I'm not going to just pass him that excuse.

Well I do agree with you on this. If it weren’t for what seems like a big slip on 2.718’s part, and if it weren’t for his absence, my vote would be on Egix for sure.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I will have more time on Tuesday to respond and post productive content. I was on time pressure when I wrote my comment.

Most of Tuesday has come and gone now. 4 votes on you. Can you at least pop in for a brief "whoa whoa whoa" or something?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I don't understand why people replace in to games and then don't play

Yeah I agree. This game has essentially stalled for the past day because of no response from 2.718 and because of Egix's departure. No other angles are nearly as interesting to me as these two things.

[SuperfluousNinja]

if you think I claimed PR what sort of town mindset did you have to out me to the scum like this

Obviously the post was a joke. "Wink wink"? Does that not imply that I was not being serious at all?

Is it not true that Vanilla Townie starts with a V, then?

[SuperfluousNinja]

ninja, who's your biggest town read?

I don’t know which is the “biggest”, but I feel pretty good about you, Light Ethos, and Saudade. Your efforts and Light’s seem well-reasoned and natural, trying to move the game in a positive direction. I know Saudade’s contributions are a bit different, but none of his actions stand out as particularly scummy. He would be an odd pick for scum.

I wish I could say I trusted Lafayette, but his play seems kind of esoteric and I worry that he’s leveraging his experience to make himself appear to legitimately know stuff that the rest of us missed.

[SuperfluousNinja]

My lifetime experience is 7 Newbie games, 1 Open game, plus my first game ever which was a werewolf game on another site.

I try to play pretty straightforward and transparent. What seems esoteric about it?

Your stance on 2.718 is different from pretty much everyone else's stance. What's truly baffling about it is that the exact reason you use to suspect Malakittens, which is as follows....

More specifically, she's offered no opinions other than everyone is null except Egix, who's town.

....is literally one of the exact reasons why people suspect 2.718 of guilt, who as you recall, said this:

I use a 0-8 scale (0 = scum, 8 = town, 4 = neutral) and right now everyone is a 4.

Isn't that the exact sort of thing that trips your scumdar? And yet you don't see the case against 2.718 for doing the exact same thing?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I acknowledge that it COULD be similar. Or it could just be someone flaking on the game. It's the difference between doing nothing while actively engaged in the game (scummy) vs doing nothing while flaking (null).

Hmm alright. So which two are the most likely to be scum in your book? You seem to have stopped believing that Malakittens is one of them. You don't see a case against 2.718 and you don't think Egix's freak-out is AI. So who does that leave?

[SuperfluousNinja]

TBH I think 2.718’s silence has at least something to do with him not knowing how to talk his way out of it and hoping it blows over.

Personally I’m not going to fall for that.

How could it possibly just be a “joke”? Not an acceptable explanation.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If he was scum he would have gotten anxious and self destructed in the mafia thread not here. It’s also pretty clear he wasn’t being coached.

What if he self-destructed in both?

You’re essentially arguing that his illogical behavior almost certainly followed a logical pattern. To me, the location of where he freaked out is far less interesting than the fact that he did in the first place.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Plus there is certainly a chance that his partner was AFK, given the amount of absenteeism in this game. Maybe scum chat was like talking to a brick wall.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Hmm alright. So which two are the most likely to be scum in your book? You seem to have stopped believing that Malakittens is one of them. You don't see a case against 2.718 and you don't think Egix's freak-out is AI. So who does that leave?

I'm not sure yet. The quick wagon on e raised all sorts of red flags for me, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's scum on there. Micc telling me to pay no mind to the thing that gave me pause about the case for the wagon was a little off-putting, but other than that his push seems town-motivated. Saudade's gonzo playstyle is hard to read but so far I've felt pretty good about it. If there's scum on the wagon, I'm placing bets on you or Ethos. Didn't like your 136 or Ethos's 143 & 144.

I thought Egix was obvious town up until his last post. I'm still leaning town, but his exit was so extreme I'm less sure now. If there's scum off the wagon I think it's more likely Alpaca or e.

If you didn’t like post 136 and think it actually means something, then Egix is guilty by default. It’s the only context in which the scum version of myself makes any sense. If I were scum and Egix were innocent, I wouldn’t have found his reaction “unfortunate” in the slightest.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If you didn’t like post 136 and think it actually means something, then Egix is guilty by default. It’s the only context in which the scum version of myself makes any sense. If I were scum and Egix were innocent, I wouldn’t have found his reaction “unfortunate” in the slightest.

Except the reason I didn't like it was that you felt the need to pre-emptively clarify that it wasn't a scum slip.

I didn’t need you to clarify that.

What I said still stands.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If you didn’t like post 136 and think it actually means something, then Egix is guilty by default. It’s the only context in which the scum version of myself makes any sense. If I were scum and Egix were innocent, I wouldn’t have found his reaction “unfortunate” in the slightest.

Except the reason I didn't like it was that you felt the need to pre-emptively clarify that it wasn't a scum slip.

I didn’t need you to clarify that.

What I said still stands.

Scum can't express fake remorse?

What is the remorse about?

Yes, I am testing you here to see if you get it right.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Feeling bad for him that he outed himself as scum when he was just trying to help his partner.

How'd I do, prof?

Yeah alright, I wasn’t sure if you understood. You obviously understand the intent of my second post then if this is your reply. Which makes me wonder why you think it was scummy when it clearly accomplished what it was intended to accomplish.

Regardless, this is a dead end. Just remember to follow this theory through to its logical conclusion. If you’re right about what I said, it makes Egix and myself scummates by default.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Feeling bad for him that he outed himself as scum when he was just trying to help his partner.

How'd I do, prof?

Regardless, this is a dead end. Just remember to follow this theory through to its logical conclusion. If you’re right about what I said, it makes Egix and myself scummates by default.

BTW I forgot to highlight the reason why this theory doesn’t add up - I’m the one who led the charge against Egix, voting for him first and only taking my vote off when a far better case was made. That’s not even bussing, that’s outright throwing a teammate into a dumpster and lighting it on fire.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Why was the text so small there? Wtf mate

[SuperfluousNinja]

Wait the text was fine loool I’ll shut up now

[SuperfluousNinja]

Feeling bad for him that he outed himself as scum when he was just trying to help his partner.

How'd I do, prof?

Yeah alright, I wasn’t sure if you understood. You obviously understand the intent of my second post then if this is your reply. Which makes me wonder why you think it was scummy when it clearly accomplished what it was intended to accomplish.

Regardless, this is a dead end. Just remember to follow this theory through to its logical conclusion. If you’re right about what I said, it makes Egix and myself scummates by default.

How is this not a logical possibility?

Scum!Ninja to Town!Egix: "Oh man, I'm so sorry about you being scum."

What? Why would scum me say to town Egix “I’m sorry you were scum”?

That’s not even the correct interpretation anyway. It was, I’m sorry that you’re already beating yourself up for how you played and actually may have drove the knife in deeper with this.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Same reason scum you would call out any townie as scum. Not sure how you're insisting there's some sort of logical inconsistency there.

You seem to be overlooking / oversimplifying / possibly just misunderstanding something here.

This has never been about me simply calling him scum. This is about me thinking it’s UNFORTUNATE that he performed what I perceive to be a very scummy action.

There are only two reasons why I would find it UNFORTUNATE that he did something very scummy:

1) He is my teammate. The misfortune is that my team took a hit.
2) He is upset because he thinks he blew it and then did what he did, but I perceive it as making things worse for himself. The misfortune is that the guy who was suffering over his mistakes will likely suffer even more from yet another. The misfortune is that he’s suffering.

There are no other possibilities here. If I were scum and he were town, I wouldn’t find it unfortunate that he’s screwing himself.

You claim I snuck in the word “unfortunately” just so that I could posture that my real reaction here is #2, that for some reason I would intentionally trap myself with my wording and force myself to talk myself out of it. Why would I do that to myself? If I meant every single word I said and was trying to deceive you, I would very clearly just say “this guy is scum” and not do anything fancy. And there’s no way “unfortunately” could have slipped in UNintentionally, forcing me to write the next post clarifying what I was saying.

Remember, you highlighted my post about my use of the word “unfortunately”, so that has to be what this is about. If you’re suddenly making this only about what I said regarding the situation, then you’re moving the goalposts which I would find incredibly scummy. That’s why I’m pursuing this to such great detail. You seem capable of thorough analysis and seem to have reasoned opinions, so this is all really messing with my perception of you.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I only say “unfortunately” because I feel for Egix and I’m sure he’s trying to help by doing this, but I kinda think this is accomplishing the obvious.

Just need to say that before anyone thinks that my identification of scum is “unfortunate” because I am also scum. Don’t worry, I am not that dumb.

Just to make sure we are on the same page here, Lafayette is saying THIS POST is scummy.

This post is CLEARLY about my use of the word “unfortunately”. Right? That’s obvious?

So why suddenly not talk at all about my use of the word and try to steer things towards some completely unrelated theory that I’m trying to frame Egix and then abandon the implications of everything I said in the post that you chose to highlight?

[SuperfluousNinja]

My point is, there's a third logical possibility where scum you SAYS you find it unfortunate when you don't ACTUALLY find it unfortunate.

It feels like you honestly can't see this, which comes across as town.

If this were actually what you were trying to get at from the start, you would have highlighted post 135 where I made that statement, not post 136 which only made it clear that I hadn’t put any forethought into my statement, something I would have had to have done if I were really clever enough to go for this kind of sleight of hand.

I think you had to readjust your accusation midstream to save face.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I mean, isn’t it far more likely to think that scum me said “it’s unfortunate that he’s probably toast” and then think “oh shit! I can’t have people thinking I just accidentally said my teammate might die” and then had to write my next post to backpedal. From a scum-hunting townie standpoint, that’s a far easier case to make, and I assumed that’s exactly why my clarification post tripped you up. And when it became clear that this doesn’t add up (since I led the charge against this guy even before he blew up), knowing you had so few alternatives for scumspects, you were forced to tweak your argument so you could still make it seem like you’re scum hunting.

That’s my current working theory.

[SuperfluousNinja]

[quote="In post 280although I want a bit more content.[/quote]

Pot, meet kettle

[SuperfluousNinja]

So I am a little suspicious here, although I want a bit more content.

Oops. This is what I meant to quote.

Honestly I just don't really know what to do with you. 1 post a day is going to make it impossible to get a read on you. I realize you have a life, but I mean, I do too...I work full time, take classes at night, and just ran in a race and I still have time to contribute. If you don't have the time to contribute then you shouldn't have signed up. All we have at this point is an incomplete reads list, and now I suppose we won't hear from you again for another 24 hours.

I still can't let your joke explanation go. Imagine if I said "I saw that Saudade was joking around, so in the joking mood, I decided to make a joke about how he quoted the exact text of the mason chat channel intro looool!" I mean that's just not a joke, that's a reveal.

Perhaps I'm just expressing a bit of frustration and blowing off a bit of steam with this post. So be it. I'm never going to get enough from you to really know definitively what you are, at least not by the end of today.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Who's town, then? e or the Egix slot?

My scum pool isn't limited to just 2 individuals.

You are on the scum side of null for me, but I can't call you full scum just yet. The brief nature of your posts is a little concerning as they seem more like snipes than they do like fully fleshed-out and well-reasoned contributions. Not that I'm saying you don't have the rationale for your opinions, but when you only feed us one or two sentences at a time, it's hard to know where you're coming from or how you came about with your conclusions. Frankly it's a little odd that you wrote post 49 with so much detail and hashed-out thought, and ever since then your contributions are all quite choppy.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay I see the case on e now.

This is a good example of what I was talking about earlier. What sticks out to you? What's the case you would make, the key points that make you suspicious? Why did you change your mind, or what caused you to change your mind?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay I see the case on e now.

This is a good example of what I was talking about earlier. What sticks out to you? What's the case you would make, the key points that make you suspicious? Why did you change your mind, or what caused you to change your mind?

The possibility that his first posts were just half assed prod dodging/flaking is eliminated by the fact that he spent an hour putting together a pair of posts at least as worthless.

As long as you're the only one shading me I'm not going to keep doing this.

Keep doing what? Your first paragraph was very helpful; now I understand where you’re coming from. Nobody specifically highlighted what you just did, and that helps town get to the bottom of things. Why not keep doing that?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Ninja you said before you worried about me using my experience as leverage, and you seem really bothered by me not always being explicit about my thought process, yet you seem super trusting of Saudade. What's that all about?

“Super trusting” is a bit overboard. We’ve both reached the same conclusions. And for now I don’t really see anything from his end that I want to investigate.

[SuperfluousNinja]

We’ve both reached the same conclusions. And for now I don’t really see anything from his end that I want to investigate.

Does this mean you've also concluded that e is just an overwhelmed newbie and you'd also like to lynch Alpaca instead?

I suppose not. Does it concern you that I'm not pushing him or getting involved with the discussion on that?

[SuperfluousNinja]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=10446477#p10446477]I have a tendency to be a fairly aggressive player and usually focus all my energy on just 1 or 2 people, but that strategy both arouses lots of suspicion and tends to rub people the wrong way.

Here’s your answer.

[SuperfluousNinja]

It’s hard to feel good about any reads with so much AFKing going on.

TheHolySpirit replaced Egix over 30 hours ago but hasn’t said anything yet. All we have on him is a previous player’s erratic behavior and pseudo-psychological analysis on what that means.

2.718 is largely absent.

Alpaca is as well.

Two of the three of them could be scum while we point fingers at each other and rip ourselves to shreds. My efforts lately feel very counterproductive just because I know I haven’t gotten to see the whole picture.

Honestly I don’t really know what to do until these three actually participate. I could dig into why Saudade is being pretty blasé, why malakittens is IMO slightly lacking in substantive contributions, but it feels for naught without knowing whether the case on them is far stronger.

I will say that Light Ethos is my top town and Micc isn’t far behind either. I’m inclined to trust those two the most. Light in particular has been very good about explaining his positions and intentions and is working helpful angles. Micc has the horrible misfortune of being a Wisconsin fan, but he’s aight. (srsly though, good townie vibes.)

[SuperfluousNinja]

Shame on y’all for pushing 2.7 and then not actually responding to his post or answering his questions.

Whatever DAD

okay good point. Though I think I have answered his questions. Do I still think he’s guilty? Yes. Who are my strongest reads? See post 308. Do I agree with what he has said? Again see post 308.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@2.718

You requested a better analogy to your joke, so here goes.

You and a fellow agent are Russian spies at a United States Congress dinner and are there to influence politicians. Your agent partner is cracking jokes. So in the spirit of keeping with the joke theme, you say “haha and also your US passport used the wrong art detail when it was printed! Silly you, huh? Hope nobody here catches onto that!”

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: TheHolySpirit

If we're trying to generate content from inactives, then here we go. I still thought Egix's reaction was very likely scummy and feel somewhat justified carrying through with this potential lynch.

I do feel a little better about 2.718 after his post. I can buy that he's busy. Still scum side of the fence IMO though...

[SuperfluousNinja]

Hey guys,
Sorry, I am late to the party. Being late makes me sad because there seems to be a right mess here, and I missed out on early discussion.
So after reading through the 8 pages here are my initial reads

1. Egix96(or whoever replaces him) has a solid scum read. No one freaks out this much on making a "wrong" move before Night 1 if they are town. As town, most of us are clueless before the first night so whatever "slipup" someone makes, it is not likely it will be "serious"
2. I don't think the band wagon on Euler is justified. I clearly read that as a joke, and felt no vibes of a scum revealing power roles.
3. Saudade - I just think something is off in the way he posts. It always seems like he is aggressively trying to get a reaction out of other, without moving the conversation to a positive place for Town. I think he is also a solid scum shoe-in
4. Ninja - Straight up town. Very single minded looking for scum, and trying to eradicate them.
I am still considering the other right now. But here is what I'll do

VOTE: Vote: Saudade

This is the only substantive contribution from Alpaca. I can't say I disagree with any of it. I know I've talked at length about his "slip" but honestly it would be highly unlikely that scum would just make some mistake like that. I am mostly confused that it took him so long to figure out why it was bad, but otherwise I agree with the spirit of point #2 from alpaca above. I otherwise agree with everything else he said and am glad he recognizes what I'm trying to do.

I know he's not super involved, but from what I HAVE seen of him, I can't justify a vote on him.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I know I've talked at length about his "slip"

To clarify, "his" is 2.718 here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

People I definitely do not want to lynch:

Micc, Light Ethos

Person I have no real interest in lynching:

Lafayette, AcrimoniousAlpaca

People I just don't know what to do with, but it's not quite lynching:

Saudade, Malakittens

People I do want to lynch:

TheHolySpirit, 2.718

That's where I am at right now.

[SuperfluousNinja]

This is the only substantive contribution from Alpaca. I can't say I disagree with any of it.

This cannot be true. You can't both find zero disagreement with Alpaca's read list and want to lynch 2.718 today. Alpaca saw 2.718's wagon as a mislynch based on a joke.

As I explained, I no longer think that the joke itself is as scummy as we thought it was, but I thought the way he handled it and failed to understand the implications of what he did were a bad case.

If you want to get down to brass tacks, I'm not going to throw alpaca into my scum pool just because I may disagree with one of his reads.

[SuperfluousNinja]

This is the only substantive contribution from Alpaca. I can't say I disagree with any of it.

This cannot be true. You can't both find zero disagreement with Alpaca's read list and want to lynch 2.718 today. Alpaca saw 2.718's wagon as a mislynch based on a joke.

This. Pretty jarring set of posts there ninja.

Whatever.

[SuperfluousNinja]

What kind of response is this? Do you not see the gap in your logic here?

Can you not read?

[SuperfluousNinja]

This is the only substantive contribution from Alpaca. I can't say I disagree with any of it.

This cannot be true. You can't both find zero disagreement with Alpaca's read list and want to lynch 2.718 today. Alpaca saw 2.718's wagon as a mislynch based on a joke.

As I explained, I no longer think that the joke itself is as scummy as we thought it was, but I thought the way he handled it and failed to understand the implications of what he did were a bad case.

If you want to get down to brass tacks, I'm not going to throw alpaca into my scum pool just because I may disagree with one of his reads.

Apparently I need to post this twice?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yes I can read. I read your post. It is not responsive. Alpaca does not have 2.178 in the lynch pool. 2.718 is your top or 2nd highest lynch choice unless you no longer stand by your read list. There is a gap in logic for you to say that you don't disagree with anything in Alpaca's read list. I also didn't insinuate that you need to add Alpaca to your scum pool on account of a difference in one read.

Can you just get to the point please? Vote for me or move on.

I'm just frustrated because one of the top two towniest players is choosing to be combative with me after one not-very-well-thought-out statement after making serious strides to try and move this game forward. If you aren't going to work with me then who the fuck AM I going to work with here?

[SuperfluousNinja]

He's pressed like four players in his last few posts, you're not being singled out?

Strawman. My concern is not with being "singled out"; it's with my disappointment that the towniest player isn't making greater strides to work WITH people. If he's pressing 4 people, obviously at least 2 of those presses are a wasted effort, if not more.

I thought my contributions here and the things I've accomplished thus far in the game would make it more likely that he work with me, not jump on some FOTM opportunity based on what I admit was not one of my finest moments. I have the people I find scummiEST, not DEFINITIVELY SCUMMY, meaning there is rationale for me to doubt my conclusions. Alpaca described the exact thing that makes me less convinced of 2.718's guilt, and that is that the comment about Saudade in and of itself is too obvious and isn't a great piece of evidence. He also did what I thought was a good job of describing why Saudade may be guilty, though I'm just not there yet myself which is why he's in my "I don't know what to do with you" camp. That is obviously not a townie camp. Plus, I know this is subtle, but I did not say I AGREED with him, I only said I DON'T DISAGREE, as in I can't dig up good reasons to directly strike down any piece of evidence other than to weigh more evidence against it.

Again you continue your strategy of sniping instead of writing out more thorough and fleshed-out thoughts. If you're town, that's INCREDIBLY unhelpful of you to do.

[SuperfluousNinja]

This is the only substantive contribution from Alpaca. I can't say I disagree with any of it. I know I've talked at length about his "slip" but honestly it would be highly unlikely that scum would just make some mistake like that. I am mostly confused that it took him so long to figure out why it was bad, but otherwise I agree with the spirit of point #2 from alpaca above. I otherwise agree with everything else he said and am glad he recognizes what I'm trying to do.

Alright, fuck me sideways, I guess I did later say I agreed with him. I've explained my thought processes as thoroughly as I can; don't expect me to comment further on it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You know what...

VOTE: Lafayette

You've sniped one too many times and it's just too counterproductive as town. I can't possibly see how what you're doing here is helpful.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You said that you had no real interest in lynching Lafayette, but you later said that Lafayette has sniped one too many times.
Can you be more precise about what you mean when you say that he has "sniped?"

Here are some examples.

He's pressed like four players in his last few posts, you're not being singled out?

This is the only substantive contribution from Alpaca. I can't say I disagree with any of it.

This cannot be true. You can't both find zero disagreement with Alpaca's read list and want to lynch 2.718 today. Alpaca saw 2.718's wagon as a mislynch based on a joke.

This. Pretty jarring set of posts there ninja.

@acr:

Why vote Saudade over the Egi slot?

Good question

They don't necessarily add anything to the conversation. It's more like an opportunity for a "gotcha!" comment presented itself, and he took advantage.

There's a greater pattern of not bothering to really explain and hash out what he's saying. Some more examples of that:

Bus? Who would be busing in this situation?

If scum is on the wagon for red!e, they are bussing e. Nothing e has done this game has shown town motivation. I don't think it's fair to assume as you are that e is town.

Wait. What?

Alpaca because I don't have him sorted as town yet.

What did you think of the read list alpaca provided?

Over-confident, probably wrong.

Okay I see the case on e now.

I feel like in each one of those posts, there's quite a lot more that he should have said, and without the other information, each of these posts is virtually useless. It bugged me that I had to ask WHY he suddenly saw the case against 2.718. It ought to be obvious why it's helpful to town to explain how he came to that conclusion.

Does your vote on Lafayette mean that you are now scum reading him, or is it simply retaliation?

I'm choosing not to answer this. But no it's not just retaliation.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Does your vote on Lafayette mean that you are now scum reading him, or is it simply retaliation?

I'm choosing not to answer this. But no it's not just retaliation.

This bothers me.

If you're voting someone you best be ready to speak to why.
If it's

not just

retaliation, then does it follow that retaliation is a part of the reasoning?

No. It is not part of the reasoning at all.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Does your vote on Lafayette mean that you are now scum reading him, or is it simply retaliation?

I'm choosing not to answer this. But no it's not just retaliation.

This bothers me.

If you're voting someone you best be ready to speak to why.
If it's

not just

retaliation, then does it follow that retaliation is a part of the reasoning?

It bothers me too.

Ok thanks guys for forcing my hand.

I voted to see if he would respond by changing the nature of his posts, writing more comprehensive replies and changing his style and observing how transparent he was in doing so. Doing it without announcement is scummy IMO, and being more transparent is not.

Buuuuuut, now I lost the ability to use this strategy because you imbeciles got paranoid.

Don’t do this to me again in the future, please.

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: unvote

[SuperfluousNinja]

Here's where I am at now:

People I definitely do not want to lynch: Micc, Light Ethos
Person I have no real interest in lynching: Saudade, AcrimoniousAlpaca
People I just don't know what to do with, but it's not quite lynching: Lafayette, Malakittens
People I do want to lynch: TheHolySpirit, 2.718

My case for moving Lafayette down the list has already been made.

As for Saudade, this post puts him on the town side of the fence:

I'm not reading all these walls prod me when the afk people come back and we can move this forward

IMO it would be unethical for a semi-experienced player in a newbie game to purposefully do something like this. He's choosing not to participate in the game until certain things happen, which obviously as scum is a very convenient and safe thing to do to protect your identity. With an edge of experience over everyone else, everyone else being noobs, that's what would make it unethical as scum. I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not using a strategy like this.

It DOES make sense from a town perspective, and I've seen townies do this before. He's saying he doesn't want to jump to conclusions and lead people astray. I was kinda at the exact same point myself earlier, recognizing that a lot of my current efforts could be for naught since there was a chance that the actual scummy material didn't exist due to scum not even participating. In my mind, this interpretation of his action makes far more sense.

So back to where I was earlier...

VOTE: TheHolySpirit

[SuperfluousNinja]

OK I know I'm posting a lot, but one more thing from me.

If you're voting someone you best be ready to speak to why.

I 100% disagree with this statement. People are absolutely allowed to cast their votes for their own reasons and do NOT need to explain exactly what they are doing with their votes. In my case you foiled my strategy and I'm still kind of irked about that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Has it occurred to you that what you call "sniping" might have a purpose not entirely unlike a vote with a withheld explanation?

Some of what you are calling "sniping" is just echoing, which has the added value of highlighting and expressing agreement. It reduces the possibility of something I'd like to see addressed being forgotten, glossed over, or ignored.

Noted.

What do you think of my stance on Saudade?

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: acr

l-1 guys

I’ll be a little disappointed if after almost 400 posts of analysis / discussion, we just end up lynching the guy who said the least.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Buuuuuut, now I lost the ability to use this strategy because you imbeciles got paranoid.

No you didn't. Two people expressed that something bothered you without even voting you, and you flew off the handle, calling us imbiciles. Nothing prevented you from using your strategy. If anything, you're the one who got paranoid considering how flustered your posts get when you receive any small amount of criticism.

Noted.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Actually that award would really go to least words would be THS

But with TheHolySpirit, we have the actions of Egix to go off of. With Alpaca there’s really just one post of substance.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I can get behind this wagon. I can’t recall much if any meaningful contribution from Mala...

VOTE: Malakittens

L-2

[SuperfluousNinja]

If I were actually scum then I deserve an award for being the most frequent contributor and most reckless and ballsy scum for topping the post count, especially in a game where very little is happening. I submitted one bad post in my 80+ posts which, for a noob, is actually pretty impressive in my opinion. I expected that number to be higher.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If you really believe that my strategy here, as a noob, was to outmaneuver the SEs and ICs and just throw myself out there like a madman, I guess I can’t stop you, but honestly that’s about the silliest conclusion you could make about everything I’ve tried to do for town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If I were actually scum then I deserve an award for being the most frequent contributor and most reckless and ballsy scum for topping the post count, especially in a game where very little is happening.

People have different styles. Saudade is pretty aloof with brief posts but applies pressure where he sees it is deserved. I tend to have an all options are possible until they aren't possible anymore approach to the game. Do I see some scummy things from you? Yes. Does that mean that my town read of you can change? Of course it does. Do I think that you are scum? No. Not yet.

Responding to criticism with insults is not a great way for you to gain favor with people though.

Noted.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@TheHolySpirit

All you need to read is post 331; it’s a doozy!

[SuperfluousNinja]

I guess I'll just wagon Alpaca, they havn't really said much to defend themselves yet

Why not read the thread and catch up before voting? You’re not short on time...you’ve got all weekend and a few days beyond that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

It was not just one post, there were several. Re-read my post. I pulled quotes from several things.

3 of the 5 quotes you quoted deal with the one post that I've spent the past few pages trying to recover from. I've given enough explanation to my thought processes involved with that post that I'm not going to get into it again.

In another post you highlighted that at one point I said I had no interest in lynching Lafayette, and then later I voted for him. You seem to think this is a scummy inconsistency but it was coming from a desire to get him to change his tune a bit. Mostly I just wanted to see what came of it.

You also took issue with me saying that I chose not to answer the question and would have preferred that I tell you all something misleading. Sorry but I'm going to choose full transparency.

By the way, someone asked about my opinion on Malakittens. I never really looked into Mala's posts, and I like where my current focus is going.

lawl. I don't. Not in the slightest.

"Noted"? That just seems wrong to me... although I am not sure exactly how.

He's right about what he said and I have no response. And I wanted to convey that I read and acknowledged his post and didn't ignore it.

VOTE: Alpaca

Yeah, see, this is what happens when you do not look at the thread. You just put someone to one vote away from a lynch. It seems that you did not realize this, or else you would have put your vote on someone who had two or fewer votes on.[/quote]
I feel like you're pointing out fairly obvious things here. Of course he didn't read the thread; there's nothing else to say here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

By the way, someone asked about my opinion on Malakittens. I never really looked into Mala's posts, and I like where my current focus is going.

Wait a minute, this actually deserves some attention. You're just outright saying that you're ignoring a potentially scummy player and tunneling someone else. Why? Didn't you just say something to The Holy Spirit about how he has plenty of time to sort things out, yet you don't feel like you are obliged to look into Malakittens at all?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@414: THS is doing

nothing

.

I don't understand. What is the "this" you are referring to? My post? Because I'd say my post is definitely doing SOMETHING. You stated an intent that isn't helpful to town and seems to contradict the spirit of what you told someone else.

I was doing

something

, i.e. trying to probe you. You seem to have passed my test, for lack of a better phrase.

That's great, but I never doubted that you were doing this...

[SuperfluousNinja]

Phone skimming:

@THS, hi. what does pfp mean?
@ninja, THS=The Holy Spirit

Ah okay. So 2.718’s response to my question of why he initially refused to look into Malakittens was essentially “well at least I’m doing something. But this other guy isn’t doing anything!” It’s a deflection, then. It doesn’t do anything to explain why he refused to consider another angle despite having plenty of time to do so.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@alien

Hi!

Can you check in and at least let us know if you are here and what your schedule looks like in terms of being able to catch up?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Prod dodge I guess.

I’m here but the people I want to talk to aren’t. Hopefully tomorrow is more productive.

This is a little cryptic. Just because people aren’t commenting doesn’t mean they aren’t here. Couldn’t you just ask your questions, lay them out here, and then people can come and answer them when they step into the thread?

This also helps us to know who you’re suspicious of. Right now I have no idea. And you’re our IC! That’s not a good thing...

[SuperfluousNinja]

also if you don't know where my reads stand you should read the thread more because ive been pretty clear about what my lynch pool is

k then I guess I'll be doing your homework for you. Ten dollars, please.

The best point of reference is this post, though I think it's important to point out that it is 4 days old and I imagine reads can change a LOT over the course of 4 days.

@Micc: Who other than 2.718 isn't null to you?

Egix slot is strong Town.
Lafayette, saudade and mala are moving out of the lynch pool for today but not quite there.
Everybody else needs to be sorted yet.

That's 4 of the 8, though I think you sent mixed signals on Egix. Yes, you did say what you said above, and you had earlier said this...

No one said anything out of line. Egix's reaction certainly was weird, and I hope he's ok, but its nothing to dwell on. This game isn't for everybody.

I think he's town and you guys are silly for wanting to vote him.

...but then later, when Egix was replaced by TheHolySpirit, you did this:

VOTE: Theholyspirit

welcome to the game btw. who's your biggest town read?

I understand you may have just been wanting him to vote, but it still sends a very mixed signal to say "you guys are silly for voting for him" one day and then vote for his replacement on another.

You're clear about thinking 2.718 is scum:

VOTE: 2.718

Awkward entrance was awkward. Him having SE experience doesn't seem relevant to any of the conversations going on and Lafayette's post 49 is a weird choice for the one thing he comments on before being done. I'm also interested to hear what he thinks could be scummy about Egix cause all I see is townspewing from him so far.

moar votes on 2.7 please.

You also have what seems to be a null read on Alpaca and a strong desire for more information. So that's not a SCUM read but probably at least scum side of the fence.

VOTE: acrimoniusalpaca

2.7 deserves some space and the Saudade wagon is not where I want to be. We need more from alpaca and I was disappointed to see he's been online since his last post when I just looked.

You've asked me some questions, but I honestly don't know where you stand on me. I have no idea where you stand on Light Ethos either. I'm not going to make guesses on your stances on either of us since I might end up misrepresenting your views.

So to summarize:

Town: Lafayette, Saudade, Malakittens
Maybe town but would be nice if you cleared that up: Egix / TheHolySpirit
Null: Alpaca / Alien
Scum: 2.718
?????: SuperfluousNinja, LightEthos

[SuperfluousNinja]

He's probably in the same boat as I am, waiting for alpaca/his replacement to continue forward

Dude there are 7 other people you could be looking at while you wait for Alien to get more involved. And at least ONE of them is scum, if not two. Why are you choosing to sit out and not even try to find that other scum in the meantime?

If the same is true for Micc, then I ask Micc the same question.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also,

@Lafayette and @SuperfluousNinja

, why are

you

voting for Malakittens?

(Trying to decide if I want to vote for alien or Light Ethos...)

Because of how unhelpful her contributions have been. It's hard to read through her ISO and think "yeah now there's an SE that's really trying to help town win."

I did with Mala what I did with Micc to try and understand her reads. Here's what I got.

Egi’s posts feel town from a gut reaction.

The last post really strikes me as town.

k so Egix / TheHolySpirit is town. Though old post is old.

Different circumstances, that's certainly true.

Nothing pinging yet?

Your posts so far are null. Just because it’s theory and starting off questions. I liked Egi’s posts even if everyone else doesn’t. So far everyone else needs to post more.

Null on Lafayette. This later turns into town.

I’m not active lurking. I’m actually commenting on posts. Okay yes maybe I haven’t moved my RVS vote, but I fail to see why that’s scummy in itself. I can’t vote who I would like to vote because that’d be hammering.

No one else stands out as of yet.

So here I don’t understand why it’s scummy

Admission that she doesn't have reads on most of the players. I almost feel like I should take the SE role from her if that's seriously how she feels at that point...

Again, we had a few players that hadn’t posted. I still have a few nulls even though people have some content.

Saudade I think will be a hard player for me to get a read on overall.

So null on Saudade I guess, though it's more of an "IDK wtf to do with him" type of statement.

TBH I think 2.718’s silence has at least something to do with him not knowing how to talk his way out of it and hoping it blows over.

Personally I’m not going to fall for that.

How could it possibly just be a “joke”? Not an acceptable explanation.

That’s why I’m going to see if he actually tries to get reads or if he’s waiting to blow over because he’s caught scum.

I’m not a big fan of hammering someone based off inactivity

because I know I would get mad at games when people would say ‘well Mala is caught scum because she’s not posting’ and I would actually have a legit reason for not posting

Just wanted to highlight the bolded statement above in light of this:

VOTE: acr

l-1 guys

She would later clarify to say she just doesn't want to vote inactive players RIGHT AWAY, but it still contradicts the blanket statement that she doesn't like to lynch inactives. Didn't qualify it the first time.

I think this ninja v lay is town town. I got a feeling

OK so I guess Lafayette and I are town?

So to summarize her reads:

Egix / TheHolySpirit - town
Lafayette - null / town
Saudade - no idea apparently. No read.
SuperfluousNinja - town
AcrimoniousAlpaca / Alien - scum, even though she doesn't think inactivity is scummy
Micc - ????
Light Ethos - ????
2.718 - ????

The only interaction between Mala and Micc has been this:

@micc: what makes you town read me?

Our reads seem to be lining up. That combining with my familiarity of you means you're not in the lynch pool for today although I wish you were a little more open about reasons behind your reads.[/quote]

Mala has answered a handful of questions from Light Ethos but hasn't made any statements about her theories regarding her alignment.

There was this regarding 2.718, but she's clearly still trying to make up her mind.

TBH I think 2.718’s silence has at least something to do with him not knowing how to talk his way out of it and hoping it blows over.

Personally I’m not going to fall for that.

How could it possibly just be a “joke”? Not an acceptable explanation.

That’s why I’m going to see if he actually tries to get reads or if he’s waiting to blow over because he’s caught scum. I’m not a big fan of hammering someone based off inactivity because I know I would get mad at games when people would say ‘well Mala is caught scum because she’s not posting’ and I would actually have a legit reason for not posting

So....I guess after some digging, I can figure out where she stands on everything. I know she's been super busy with work and maybe she deserves more space.

I think for now I'm just going to VOTE: unvote

[SuperfluousNinja]

Lafayette (replaced Dogeyboii) - seems Town. Suspicious of everyone, while also not looking to find reasons to go after players.
TheHolySpirit (replaced Egix96) - null
alien (replaced acrimoniusalpaca) - super town
SuperfluousNinja - Big Town read
2 718281828459 (replaced Awesomebro) - Big mafia read. Finds too many reasons to paint people as mafia. Getting the impression they aren't trying to be careful in voting.
Light Ethos - Seems Town motivated. Nothing stands out as mafia.
Saudade (SE) - Seems also pretty Town.
Malakittens (SE) - leaning scum. Kittens participation is a bit hands off. Could be a floating mafia player.
Micc (IC) - seems town motivated.

Yeah, this is almost exactly where I'm at too. I'm very encouraged to see this from you and hopefully the alpaca train comes to a grinding halt after your contribution. Thank the heavens there's a player out there with meaningful material to contribute...

VOTE: 2.718

[SuperfluousNinja]

So 2.718 is currently at L-2. Sounds like Alien intends to vote for him as well which would bring us to L-1 very quickly...

[SuperfluousNinja]

those things do appear to be true. Do those things impact your reads?

Were you asking me this question? You said this after I summarized the voting situation on 2.718. No, that doesn’t impact my reads...not sure why it would?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Micc: That question is to whoever knows. Primarily Light Ethos, but unless this whole deal is something entirely made up, then someone else should also know what I would be missing.
I get the feeling that by the time I would have gotten an answer the day will be over and the thread will be locked... (ok, now I get the feeling that that was way too pessimistic.)

@alien: My case on Ninja has expired. Basically, Ninja made a logical contradiction, and made it worse when he tried to defend it. But then he started making more reasonable posts and I began to understand that it was probably just a meaningless slip. So SN is in the null-town pile.
Regarding Mala: If that is really all the "contradiction" thing is about... I think L-1 is a very powerful tool when used appropriately. I could probably be convinced to vote for Malakittens, but my problem was that the reasoning seemed to not exist, and I thought that perhaps scum may have invented something and got 1-2 townies to sheep it.
Now that I understand where this is coming from, though, I might be willing to reconsider.

I will look at Malakittens' iso some more and see what I find.

---

I would do more ISO reads but every time I have tried that sort of thing (i.e. looking at every ISO and coming up with a read) my posts get heavy criticism for not being helpful or something. For me at least, this game seems to have a very low signal to noise ratio, and it is making forming legit reads quite difficult.

Next game I play will be a replacement at the start of day 2. I have had day-1 difficulties as both town and scum.

So, gun to your head, who are the two most likely scum?

[SuperfluousNinja]

those things do appear to be true. Do those things impact your reads?

Were you asking me this question? You said this after I summarized the voting situation on 2.718. No, that doesn’t impact my reads...not sure why it would?

You seemed eager to talk to literally anyone about anything. I assumed by posting those things in the thread you had something you wanted to say about them - or at least that they meant something to how you're thinking about the game.

For now I have said everything I mean to say. If anyone has any questions for me, they are free to ask.

[SuperfluousNinja]

two of my games were miserable failures where I got lynched day 1.

Were you town or scum in those games?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@mala

Show me your biggest pushes. The most convincing evidence you have that you aren’t just phoning it in on Day 1.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@mala

Show me your biggest pushes. The most convincing evidence you have that you aren’t just phoning it in on Day 1.

Not doing your homework for you. Again as I mentioned a few times in this thread. I don't have a lot of scum reads as of yet. I got some townreads here and there. I do have to reread the thread. I just can't do it off my phone and I haven't had time to sit down. I'll bring my computer to my volly dept tonight. I'll try to spend an hour provided I don't get tone dropped while doing it.

If this is seriously your response, then please read post 463. I did do my homework and I came up with jack squat. I wanted to see if you could prove me wrong, and apparently you can’t. The rest of your post is an admission that your contributions to the game so far are very lacking.

[SuperfluousNinja]

What really bothers me about games with a crapton of replacements is this: I start to read a player m/t, they replace out and I can't make a case against the new slot to try to have them argue their preds actions, then I go well this player looks town and i change my read on them or I keep the same. Replacements suck with trying to gain reads and we have a crap ton of them so far.

This is only a valid complaint for TheHolySpirit at this point. Alien made a satisfactory entrance and IMO seems like someone we don’t need to worry about for now.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Slot is town for today. I'm willing to reconsider at a different point but day 1 is all about narrowing the lynch pool as quickly as possible. I think I've got my lynch pool narrowed down to acrimoniusalpaca/SuperfluousNinja/2 718281828459/Light Ethos. That's contingent on the fact that I only skimmed the 2 pages that you all made since I last posted and have to come back to it because had a really hard time following the conversation because pronouns are hard.

There was this too but tbh thats farther back than i realized. Ninja, you're trending town because I thought your post 398/398 were a pure frustrated town reaction that would be hard to fake as scum. Your reads are decently far off mine tho so that still gives me pause.

TheHolySpirit's replace in posts were garbage and my immediate reaction was to push that. I realized after making the vote that the replacement was for the Egix slot that I had been town reading but that didn't stop me from wanting to pressure the weak replace in.

I'm probably lynching between 2.7 and alien/alpaca slot today. I could be persuaded towards Light Ethos but I don't think that's actually on the table with where peoples reads are at. Alien needs to get here and make some posts. Hopefully they look good because I'm thinking 2.7 is the right lynch but it's hard to justify over a slot that hasn't contributed anything to the game.

predit: yup yup explained that above.

I would say Alien’s contributions have moved him well out of lynch territory. Does that make Light Ethos your #2 scumspect then??

What’s your reasoning for suspecting Light Ethos? You seem to be the only one who does, so I’m curious where this is coming from.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I do wish that 2.718 would fight the wagon on him more rather than just throwing in the towel and saying “meh, I’m just bad at day 1.” I don’t find that response scummy; it’s just apathetic.

I don’t feel great about this wagon either.

Let’s see who I can get to join this wagon. It’s for a guy who has just been obstinate, uncooperative, combative, and pretty much the exact opposite of what he promised to be at the start of the game with no logical explanation as to why. Not to mention his post count is substantially lower than the far more obvious townies.

VOTE: Micc

[SuperfluousNinja]

Lets just poe this bitch

Lafa - grumpy elitist town

Micc - town same mindset as me

Malakitty - meta town

Light Ethos - best town

A'ight with 4 townreads game is easy

Micc doesn't have the same mindset as you. He said this:

I'm probably lynching between 2.7 and alien/alpaca slot today. I could be persuaded towards Light Ethos but I don't think that's actually on the table with where peoples reads are at. Alien needs to get here and make some posts. Hopefully they look good because I'm thinking 2.7 is the right lynch but it's hard to justify over a slot that hasn't contributed anything to the game.

He said that your "best town", Light Ethos, is someone he is willing to lynch. So actually he appears to have an opposite mindset to your own.

He said either 2.718 or Alien, which was before Alien began posting and has made a strong case for himself being town. That will force Micc to move Light Ethos into his scum pool.

What do you think about that, Saudade?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I mean he is his own strong independent woman he can have a read different to mine lol

Who are your top two scum reads then?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Because FYI your vote on Alien is bad / pointless. Move it to actual scum, please.

[SuperfluousNinja]

okay ill shut my whore mouth and do what you tell me daddy

I’m not going to tell you what to do. Do it yourself. Just pick an actual scum when you vote.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I should also say that with under 2 days left we should have an intent to hammer already and any of you on your own vanity push need to either come back to reality or make an incredibly compelling case for why people should join you. This lynch appears to be between 2.7 and mala. All I really have to say about mala is that my understanding of her meta/personality is that she doesn’t fake this town slip if she’s scum. Also she’s as stubbornly passive in the early parts of every other game as she is here. Let’s get that 2.7 wagon back to l-1 and get a claim.

If he was scum he would have gotten anxious and self destructed in the mafia thread not here. It’s also pretty clear he wasn’t being coached.

Uh that’s if mafia have day talk imo

those things do appear to be true. Do those things impact your reads?

Were you asking me this question? You said this after I summarized the voting situation on 2.718. No, that doesn’t impact my reads...not sure why it would?

You seemed eager to talk to literally anyone about anything. I assumed by posting those things in the thread you had something you wanted to say about them - or at least that they meant something to how you're thinking about the game.

@Micc: That question is to whoever knows. Primarily Light Ethos, but unless this whole deal is something entirely made up, then someone else should also know what I would be missing.

I mean I don't really know what the contradiction is either, but I didn't think anyone was pushing contradiction in their case against mala. /Shrug i guess.

I would do more ISO reads but every time I have tried that sort of thing (i.e. looking at every ISO and coming up with a read) my posts get heavy criticism for not being helpful or something. For me at least, this game seems to have a very low signal to noise ratio, and it is making forming legit reads quite difficult.

Have you tried stating some your opinions instead of asking questions to no one in particular or posting summaries or things people already read? How about you give me the one thing youre most confident about in this game?

also if you don't know where my reads stand you should read the thread more because ive been pretty clear about what my lynch pool is

Does your vote on Lafayette mean that you are now scum reading him, or is it simply retaliation?

I'm choosing not to answer this. But no it's not just retaliation.

This bothers me.

If you're voting someone you best be ready to speak to why.
If it's

not just

retaliation, then does it follow that retaliation is a part of the reasoning?

“You best be ready” - unnecessarily hostile / cocky-ish language that I chose to respond to in kind with the “imbecile” remark, since I know you’ll bring that up.

“If you don’t know where I stand then you should read the thread more.” - accusatory (that I haven’t read), unhelpful (can’t be bothered to type the 200 keystrokes that summarize reads)

“Have you tried stating opinions instead of asking nobody in particular” - this is especially a good example of how you’re just being rude / callous instead of helpful, especially as IC. I don’t understand why you chose to frame this statement with a large helpfing of hostility instead of a more neutral / helpful tone.

“Vanity push” - dismissing any push other than the more popular ones as pointless. At the very least I am laying out my intent and seeing how legitimate it is. There is still time for exploration of other theories. In a lot of books, your push here to shut down other avenues of discussion would be textbook scumminess.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also:

“Come back to reality” - suggests that anyone with a unique point of view is mentally insane in some way. Don’t like that at all.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Anything that willfully resists moving the game forward should be considered scummy.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Perhaps I get way more turned off by that kind of tone than others do. I’m an INFJ if that tells you anything...

I don’t think that pushing us to focus entirely on 2.718 and Malakittens is the best thing we can do, especially after both of them put up a decent defense on Sunday (well Malakittens did. I wasn’t 100% satisfied with 2.718)

I don’t think that 2 days is too little time to consider anything else. Though maybe at the pace at which people participate, it is a limited amount of time?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Hmm. I don’t like ninja from the last two pages.

I also didn’t realize the damn deadline was so close. I’ll switch my vote from Alien if needed to 2.78 to lynch. Rather vote my scum read then someone on my need to sort pile.

I really don’t see the point of SFN trying to do a last minute lynch on Micc. Doesn’t feel right

Last minute? There are almost 3,000 minutes until the day ends.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@mala

It’s interesting that you would be freaked out / disappointed by / whatever it is you are regarding a new wagon, considering that the consensus here is to lynch either you or 2.718. A scum you would be glad to see a new wagon starting.

I don’t think you are scum and this is the latest reason why.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Alright.

VOTE: 2.718

That puts him at L-2. Micc, Lafayette, and myself have votes on him.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Man I read THS as someone dramatically saying “this” every single time.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh dear.....

After thinking about it for a while, I decided that I think Malakittens is probably town. Both Malakittens and SN have made a logical contradiction, and both of them seem to have recovered and played reasonably town-like. And as for the low-quality posts, it is kind of hard to scum read someone when they present a very similar difficulty in making good town-productive play as I have in day 1.

Hopefully we get a timer freeze replacement. Because what this means is that if the lynch pool really is either me or Mala, then we will almost certainly lose a townie.

Micc was the IC in another game I played (Newbie 1877), and I was thinking that Micc played a lot more briskly and less inquiring here than in 1877... but after reading the ISOs I think that the play is actually very similar and my conjecture was wrong. So I have no particular reason to scum-read Micc here given that he was town in 1877.

So I am completely discouraged right now about our chances today unless we get a timer freeze and the replacement takes abnormally long to complete. Right now most slots are null (alien, THS), neutral (Saudade, LE, Lafayette), or lean town (Malakittens, Micc, SN). (Null = insufficient information; neutral = lots of information but it cancels out).

You are free to read this post as

scum

giving up if you wish, but really I am not sure if it will make any kind of difference.

Well if it doesn’t read as scum giving up, it definitely reads as town giving up. You don’t have any scum reads at all? Day 1 is definitely tricky but if you don’t even give us anywhere else to look, why would we assume you’re innocent?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yeah, learning moment incoming. just let me build to it.

Um ok...

[SuperfluousNinja]

Any reason we shouldn't speed wagon Alien and force a claim?

VOTE: Alien

Why do you want to do this quickly? Are you afraid he'll sway everyone's opinion or something?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Not Known 15

Hi!

I'm hoping you were able to catch up on everything during the 48 hour evening and am now curious about your thoughts about everyone.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also 2.78 never did claim before getting lynched or did I miss it?

That’s correct.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Any reason we shouldn't speed wagon Alien and force a claim?

VOTE: Alien

Why do you want to do this quickly? Are you afraid he'll sway everyone's opinion or something?

Because his hammer was sketch af

Yeah alright. Keep in mind it was very clearly a self-preservation move. This is going to pull the rug out from under me if he's actually scum though because I followed everything he said and it all made a lot of logical sense. Nothing he said struck me as scummy and all of it struck me as "oh yeah, true, good point".

I'll go back and reread I guess.

[SuperfluousNinja]

So first my impressions

Lafayette (replaced Dogeyboii) - seems Town. Suspicious of everyone, while also not looking to find reasons to go after players.
TheHolySpirit (replaced Egix96) - null
alien (replaced acrimoniusalpaca) - super town
SuperfluousNinja - Big Town read
2 718281828459 (replaced Awesomebro) - Big mafia read. Finds too many reasons to paint people as mafia. Getting the impression they aren't trying to be careful in voting.
Light Ethos - Seems Town motivated. Nothing stands out as mafia.
Saudade (SE) - Seems also pretty Town.
Malakittens (SE) - leaning scum. Kittens participation is a bit hands off. Could be a floating mafia player.
Micc (IC) - seems town motivated.

I am kinda curious what he's going to think now. His one "big mafia read" was town, and he has one other player that he leans scum. He's going to have to find a second one now...

[SuperfluousNinja]

ninja, what part of "I'm going to let him speak to the hammer before posting my thoughts" did you not understand?

Whoa....your team isn't even playing the Rams tonight. Is everything okay on your end? I don't understand the hostility here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

ninja, what part of "I'm going to let him speak to the hammer before posting my thoughts" did you not understand?

I'm not sure you're even talking to the right person here? I don't even understand who "him" is in this context. Who are you letting speak to Alien? How did I get in the way of it? How did I get in YOUR way of it? What did I say to you to get in the way of you doing this? I'm extremely confused by this hostility here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Anyway I have to go to a dinner now and then to a bar to watch this game tonight. If someone can sort out what Micc is talking about, why he's so angry with me, why he thought I got in anyone's way, or what is going on with him personality-wise in the meantime, I'd be much obliged....

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh hey but first, a brief snippet from the BEING A GOOD IC guide that Micc posted himself:

Attitude:

Rude, unhelpful, and/or inattentive ICs do not provide a good experience for players, new or old. Attacking someone is part of the game, but that should be tempered with civility. Don't treat the new people with kid gloves, but don't be the reason they never come back to the site either.

Maybe you ought to reread the guide yourself for a refresher?

[SuperfluousNinja]

If this is how Micc is going to treat me and be unapologetic about it, then please replace me. He's being rude and uncivil and I want none of that fucking shit.

Seriously I was hoping to enjoy this evening and Micc just shit all over it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: Saudade

There are three possibilities here.

1) Alien is lying and therefore scum, and Saudade is therefore town-aligned (either vanilla town or power town; doesn't matter for this scenario)

. I reject this as a possibility - consider the fact that if Alien pulled a role out of thin air and claimed it, he just claimed a role that has a 2/9 chance of actually being in the game. These are very low odds and makes for a risky play...a jailkeeper or a tracker could come forward and kill him instantly. And I reject the possibility that he's doing this as a self-preservation move when he only has ONE VOTE on him. He has a teammate that he would have talked this through with, and I can't imagine a teammate being okay with picking a role from thin air that would spell instant doom for him if we had a jailkeeper or tracker, nor would he think it wise to whittle down the suspect pool to just 2 people before things had even gotten desperate.

I also considered the possibility of a scum rolecop discovering that a role exists which guarantees the existence of a town neopolitan, and this doesn't seem likely either. Suppose they discovered a town doctor or a town cop and knew that neopolitan COULD also appear with the role...then you have the same problem as before, that a jailkeeper or tracker could come forward and say "your role isn't even possible here" and he'd be dead. OR the town tracker could have discovered a neopolitan out there, but again, then the actual neopolitan could step forward and say "there can't be 2 of us..."

I just don't think it makes logical sense to think that he made this up.

2) Alien is telling the truth and Saudade is power town

. Saudade is a smart player and would have thought through everything I thought of in #1 and realized how unlikely it is that Alien would be lying about his role. It may seem like he's protecting his identity as a power town right now, but if he were actually power town, why would he vote down Alien for saying something true? He'd have to be pretty convinced he was voting to lynch a power townie himself...so this doesn't make sense either.

That leaves the third possibility as the only believable / likely one.

3) Alien is telling the truth and Saudade is scum

. Just no other good explanation for this.

Consider also this quote from Saudade:

This makes the day so much more easier for me

This is an INCREDIBLY scummy way to phrase his intent. "Makes the day easier"? Because of the impossibility of Alien lying here, Saudade was forced to either claim a power role and pretend to be a power role (which would make today much more difficult for him), or just be his lazy accusatory self and not try to fool anyone which yes is much easier.

I also consider the fact that I like everything Alien has contributed to this game, that I can follow all his reasoning and logic very easily. While Saudade on the other hand has been incredibly unhelpful throughout the course of this game so far and oddly a lot of players have given him a free pass for this just because "that's his personality" or whatever.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You claimed anyway, what's the difference? How the fuck do I know you're a power role if you don't claim?

What's with the frustration here? Why aren't you thinking through any of the stuff I just thought through? I think it's impossible for Alien to lie about any of this.

Seems highly likely you're Saudade's teammate if this is really how you're going about this.

[SuperfluousNinja]

This makes the day so much more easier for me

Can we please get some discussion on this post here? What exactly did he "make" here? He's just role-claiming and telling us the truth, right? That's not "making" anything...but yeah if he's scum and has to "make" a role for himself, this definitely "makes" things easier for him.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm vanilla

K I didn't see this when I began writing. But I don't think it changes anything I wrote.

[SuperfluousNinja]

tempted to just meme the whole day until this prick gets lynched

KNOCK THIS SHIT OFF.

You don't get to call other players pricks just because you're losing.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I am a VT.

VOTE: Saudade

Game is over, basically.

Well hello there!

It's not over though...Saudade is only one scum and there's still another to find. Can you explain more?

[SuperfluousNinja]

You claimed anyway, what's the difference? How the fuck do I know you're a power role if you don't claim?

What's with the frustration here? Why aren't you thinking through any of the stuff I just thought through? I think it's impossible for Alien to lie about any of this.

Seems highly likely you're Saudade's teammate if this is really how you're going about this.

Because he's being cocky and acting like I'm an idiot for wanting to wring info out of him for a play that was scummy on its face. Sorry, I'm done.

Just waiting to see if anyone else claims.

You don't have to be an "idiot" to be someone who makes a move he doesn't like. I didn't see him calling you an idiot at all.

I think it's in our best interests to hold off on claims as much as possible, isn't it? Just because Alien did doesn't mean everyone needs to.

If today still ended with a mislynch and scum knew all the roles and uncovered the possible doctor's existence, that guarantees their night kill.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If we lynch Saudade and he flips town, then Alien is a dead man. So how could anyone possibly view Alien's move here as an attempt to save himself?

Alien has to be telling the truth.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Damn it I wish I'd thought of that point before I went through the effort of writing all that LOL. This is a much more efficient logical conclusion

[SuperfluousNinja]

This makes the day so much more easier for me

Can we please get some discussion on this post here? What exactly did he "make" here? He's just role-claiming and telling us the truth, right? That's not "making" anything...but yeah if he's scum and has to "make" a role for himself, this definitely "makes" things easier for him.

i dont need to scumhunt today save your breath you dont know how to play this game

Why was today “made” easier by your claim? What was there to “make”? Aren’t you just telling the truth and laying it out?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I’d really like to hear Micc and Malakittens’ thoughts right now...

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm going to call this prick a prick for the rest of the game

What are you trying to accomplish with a post like this?

Why would you sign up to be an SE in a newbie game and then personally attack newbies for making plays you don’t like?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I haven't read through 691 in detail yet ninja, but if Alien is scum then he has a 1/3 chance of guessing the setup, which changes the strength of point 1 somewhat.

Pedit: that's true of any fake claim. Buys scum a day if it works.

This is overlooking the fact that he did not yet need to buy a day. The reasoning for his hammer was very well documented when he made it. I think a fair number of us felt good about Alien and would have given him a chance without needing to claim.

You’re right, there’s a 2/3 risk he guesses wrong if he’s scum. All the more reason to be far more cautious than he was

[SuperfluousNinja]

A fair number also already said they would vote for him. What's with the hard defense?.

I’m just trying to create discussion.

You need to define “a fair number” explicitly or else the point isn’t relevant. Were there FOUR people who were absolutely going to lynch him? One of the people voting him is dead and another’s vote was parked on him by a player that isn’t here anymore. Even with your switch, if we went off yesterday’s vote, that’s only 3 people (you, saudade, and Mala) who would lynch him. Everyone else, as far as I can recall, expressed their view that they trust Alien. So I don’t see the votes happening.

Just because you view the hammer vote as overwhelmingly scummy evidence doesn’t mean others will too.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ninja if Saudade is telling the truth then he knows with total certainty that Alien is scum.

I’m aware. What’s your point? Why are you bringing this up?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ah okay I get it now. It’s because of the “makes” comment.

I’m just working an angle. If he were scum, there’s a way you could read it as a scum slip. That’s all I’m saying.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Throwing this out there:

If Alien is lying, that means that TWO people alive are PT. If we all collectively decided to all reveal our roles, we should expect 2 more power town claims if Alien were scum.

There are a lot of possibilities here and I wish those of you with more experience here would come talk this through and figure it all out. Would sure be a lot more enjoyable than all the mudslinging currently going on.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Damn it actually that’s not true either...there could be a cop or a doctor with no other PTs. So I rescind the two other PT comment

[SuperfluousNinja]

A fair number also already said they would vote for him. What's with the hard defense?.

I’m just trying to create discussion.

You need to define “a fair number” explicitly or else the point isn’t relevant. Were there FOUR people who were absolutely going to lynch him? One of the people voting him is dead and another’s vote was parked on him by a player that isn’t here anymore. Even with your switch, if we went off yesterday’s vote, that’s only 3 people (you, saudade, and Mala) who would lynch him. Everyone else, as far as I can recall, expressed their view that they trust Alien. So I don’t see the votes happening.

Just because you view the hammer vote as overwhelmingly scummy evidence doesn’t mean others will too.

I'm talking about today. Three people already expressed interest in voting for him before he claimed. You suggested his claim is more credible because he wasn't feeling any pressure.

I’m not saying he “wasn’t feeling ANY pressure”. I’m saying there wasn’t enough pressure to force him to make up a lie, at least not yet. 3 votes won’t get him lynched.

If he were scum, he would have a teammate to maybe talk him off the ledge too...

[SuperfluousNinja]

and we want a cop plus doc setup to be public anyway because it leads to a confirmed town in the 4v1 which is the best we're going to get out of today.

Not sure I follow who is in the 4v1? There’s 5 town and 2 scum, yes?

[SuperfluousNinja]

no. if the setup is actually cop plus doc that would be pretty bad for us since Neapolitan can exist with both.

No it can’t. If we have 1 Cop AND 1 Doctor, Neapolitan isn’t possible.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Doesn't it hurt us to out the other PR if it's JUST a Doc or Cop, though?

What is the likelihood that we get another false Power claim? Like two people claim to be cop? I think we can be guaranteed that would be a catastrophic move on scum’s part, right? Because that whittles down the suspect pool considerably.

We know for sure that EITHER Alien is guilty OR Saudade. We’ve got one pegged down. Conflicting claims now would identify the other (like if we had 2 cops, for sure 1 of them is scum).

If scum claimed tracker or jailkeeper to frame Alien and then Alien flipped town, we would know the entire scum team with certainty. So they wouldn’t do this.

Nothing other than Cop or Doctor claim is possible. If we got two, again, we’ve whittled down the scum pool a lot.

Is this enough rationale to assume we can trust any power role claim at this point? Any thoughts / feedback??

[SuperfluousNinja]

You realize it’s going to be like eleventy billion hours before he does, right? Ahhhh

[SuperfluousNinja]

Well if it doesn’t read as scum giving up, it definitely reads as town giving up. You don’t have any scum reads at all? Day 1 is definitely tricky but if you don’t even give us anywhere else to look, why would we assume you’re innocent?

Aaaugh idk. I kind of want to prodge for the rest of day 1 considering the fact that I am quite sure that a townie will be lynched. My answer-right-now-or-die scum team right now would be THS and either alien or perhaps maybe Saudade. Unfortunately most of the ISOs are neutral or town.

Do whatever you want. I will just VOTE: alien for now just to use my vote (alien because of the wagon and because of PoE).

L-1

Do not hammer without posting intent in advance

Really???

So I got one afk vote on me. Saudade is voting me for I don't even know why. Mala, who I suspect pretty strongly is mafia and I can't even really recall a case being made on me by Mala, and now you because I have a wagon and PoE? What does that even mean exactly...

Oh jeez lol. I'm laughing at how bad this is. This is honestly how I feel right now.


I just don't even...Well played mafia.


I did kind of TOwn read your overall vibe and my intuition says town, despite my reason saying otherwise. I guess I could be a dick and just vote you lol in retaliation. But meh, I'm let this ride out.

[SuperfluousNinja]

lol fail....didn’t mean to carry all the text that showed me how to do a gif

[SuperfluousNinja]

[SuperfluousNinja]

I can’t even right now.

So part of me believes Alien and the other half of me doesn’t.

Can you explain your reasoning for each?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I’m a cop.

I checked Micc last night and he’s confirned Town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I was really hoping one of you would screw up and claim Doctor. I was going to claim vanilla town and then watch as we all wished you farewell and an honorable death since clearly that’s who scum would kill, only to find you alive on day 3. Would have been a glorious moment.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Btw I am not looking forward to my imminent death and will honestly be a little pissed if Saudade really was scum all along after making what I thought was a compelling enough argument for a lynch without outing my identity.

So it goes I guess.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Do you realize this is throwing the game if the doctor claim is actually a doctor and your plan causes us to think alien is confirmed town and lynch Saudade?

If there were a doctor claim, we would be just as much up in the air about it if it were real or fake. If we had a doctor, cop, and neapolitan claim, then who do you trust? I don't think me revealing myself as cop in that situation would have helped. But on the flip side, if the claim were a fake one, then my move would have ended the game and won it for town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Why is today's lynch in the air? Only way Alien is scum is if we're in a C world and they took a giant gamble.

Pedit: good idea

If only you'd realized that this morning before I had to out myself when I was trying to convince you of this exact thing....

[SuperfluousNinja]

Because consider this. If Alien is neopolitan then this is an A world and mafia has a roleblocker. If Saudade isn't the roleblocker then we are done getting any more information from night reads. They'll block one and kill the other.

[SuperfluousNinja]

So they have a rolecop, but not a blocker. so I can get a read tonight at least if you want to save me.

No, this is setup A if you really are neapolitan. They'd have a roleblocker.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I believe this makes ninja confirmed town which makes me confirmed town. Does leave today's lynch is still up in the air. Going to think on it for a bit.

One's always dying tonight and if alien is town then a roleblocker exissts. Only scenario where we have any cops going forward is if saudade is the roleblocker.

no no no. It would be rolecop. Neopolitan and Doctor comes with rolecop in the matrix chart.

Damn it Jim I'm a cop, not a doctor!

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Micc and Ninja
So possibilities are mala, lafayette, and NK15. Which one do I think I should vote? I really don't know at this point. NK15 still reads likely town to me, but it wouldn't be too hard to pretend with so little content at this point either.

You mean check at night for role, right?

I dunno, this town doesn't like me very much LOL so I'm hesitant to offer my opinion.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh god damn it, lol. I thought he said doctor.

well...that's not bad either. GUARANTEES a check this night too. But yeah, you'd probably be dead just cause there was never any heat on you.

It's okay.

The way I look at it, we will for sure have 1 guaranteed townie in a 2v1 situation. Myself, Micc, and you/Saudade are confirmed town. Scum can only kill 2 of us over the next 2 evenings.

So this is really down to Malakittens, the 15 guy whatever his name is, and Lafayette being able to sort out which among them is the scum. Obviously we can make great progress there if we lynch the roleblocker today and get at least one more read on that pool.

[SuperfluousNinja]

ohhh, wait are you sure? I thought if you were mafia and had a role, you'd either have to kill or use your night action? Rules must be different here then where I played before. I'll read the rules.

That's a very good question!

@huntress - can you answer?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also will admit I was townreadign Egi because I thought he was a PR

ohh, what made you think that?

His first post. He over reacted to a few people which made me think he had a Pr he felt super nervous and jumpy

Did you think I was PR when I did the same?

Because that's literally exactly why I freaked out lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

Without going into detail, I’d vote Lafayette as scum. Mala just does not come across as scummy.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Same question to you, too, then, ninja. Who's your number two?

I think you’re scum and fishing for kill order info.

I have no clue why I need to answer this.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Same question to you, too, then, ninja. Who's your number two?

I think you’re scum and fishing for kill order info.

I have no clue why I need to answer this.

Scum doesn't get to kill me, Mala, or NK. there are three confirmed townies, if they kill anyone else, they lose.

If you lynch me tomorrow, you'll need another lynch.

lol k

[SuperfluousNinja]

JFC. You don't even have to take my word for it. Just do the math. Or ask Micc.

I mean why are you under the impression that I don’t understand this?

[SuperfluousNinja]

You know what, I don't even care if you're paranoid about putting it in the thread. But at least give it some thought so you're not blindsided by your confusion. Just do a What If Laf Really Is Town exercise for yourself so that you have a theory started before you lynch me.

I did.

[SuperfluousNinja]

As long as sauce flips scum we got this game because we will still have three confirmed town; three unconfirmed and then we will lynch the scummiest of the three unconfirmed

I legit don’t see a way for town to lose this

Gn
Zzz

Not to mention if Saudade flips as a roleblocker, the three unconfirmed players become two.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If Saudade flips roleblocker, the game is over.

Scum will kill either Alien or me tonight, but we’ll get a read on one of the three unconfirmed. Tomorrow there are only two unconfirmed players and we lynch one of them. Even with another mislynch and another night kill, we have 3 left and only 1 unconfirmed left.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Alright.

I’ll check NK15. Sound good?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Dusk reads

Saw Daddy: Town. Has good ideas and pursues them stubbornly, gets annoyed if you try to push him to do something different.

Mala: Town. Literally phoning it in because of current work situation, mutual trust with Saudade based on meta, so seems to be following his lead more or less, reads seem highly correlated with OMGUS.

Ninja: Town. Careful read of the game, leaves no stone unturned, notices dissonance and demands explanation for it, genuinely perplexed and irritated that anyone would read him as anything but obvtown.

Micc: Town. Aggressively pushes wagons, good broad-stroke town hunting as well as scum hunting to narrow the first lynch pool, uses exp to knock down weak theories rather than inflate them.

Alien: Town. Initial perspective on the game valid and well-supported, effort to sort people seems good faith, assertive reads based on natural questions and thought process.

Lynch pool -

2.7: Top choice. Struggles to put together anything that really resembles the game state, pushes seem unstructured and forced.

THS: Plan B. Egix's last post broke my initial town read, and THS didn't fix it. Also a little PoE.

Ethos: If all else fails. PoE. Haven't cleared as town for today. Mostly seems to be methodically sorting, but I sometimes get the sense that cases are overwrought, votes too carefully positioned. Fuzziest read.

Honestly though this is worrisome. Your top town read appears to have actually been scum. And 2 of your 3 scum reads are confirmed town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yeah my reads have sucked. I really don't think I'm alone in that department this game. Any reason this is more suspicious than other players equally bad lists?

No I suppose not.

I’m okay with lynching NK15 tomorrow. Beyond that, I am dead and will not be able to lynch whoever is #2 on my list.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh actually I’ll maybe just be roleblocked. Scum would kill Micc before me. Hmmm

[SuperfluousNinja]

I apologize to @Micc and @Light Ethos for calling you imbeciles.

The more I think about it, the more I can convince myself that NK15 is the scum and Lafayette / Mala are town. Lafayette has responded well to everything I've ever pushed him on and is one of the most involved...just very difficult to pull off as scum IMO. Mala has not been quite as involved, but I've just never really gotten much of a scum read on her. And she HAS been around more than others here, if we're talking about comparisons.

I go back to my original logic about Egix's reason for overreacting and withdrawing and I'm still fairly convinced that was scummy of him. His two replacements have both had no clue what to do, really. As town, it's easy: you just show up and ask questions. But as scum? Walking into who knows what? Then you do silly things like just putting a vote on a train with no thought (like the second guy did) or claiming you're vanilla town when there was no reason for you to do so and declaring "the game is over" when it clearly isn't.

So, should I die tonight, or should we progress further in this game where you would have wanted my opinion and I'm not around to give it, that's where I stand. I think NK15 is scum. And honestly I can't sort out between Lafayette and Malakittens who my #2 choice would be. I'm assuming the reason I can't sort it out is because they are both town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Personally I'd be fine with just hammering Saudade and being done with it. I don't have any expectation of NK15 adding any unique analysis here since he is both pretty far behind and IMO most likely scum. The only thing I'd look at with his post is "how scummy is that?"

[SuperfluousNinja]

@NK15

Are you sticking around? Willing to answer questions? Or are you already gone?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@NK15

Are you sticking around? Willing to answer questions? Or are you already gone?

Hmmm I guess that’s a no on the question answering.

Dipping in to point the finger elsewhere and leaving without discussing anything is very scummy.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@NK15

Are you sticking around? Willing to answer questions? Or are you already gone?

Hmmm I guess that’s a no on the question answering.

Dipping in to point the finger elsewhere and leaving without discussing anything is very scummy.

Hell no. That always depends on how much time somebody has. If you have to leave you have to leave.
I can answer questions now if you have some.

ok.

Why did you claim VT when there was no reason for you to do so?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also: how much time did you have to catch up in the 48 hours of night phase and the 48 hours of day 2 that we've had so far?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I’m cool with hammering whenever. I’ve seen enough

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm assuming we want Micc to chime in before we hammer?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ya same. Maybe Micc was Oktoberfesting too hard and forgot about us lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm really glad I didn't claim day 1 when I was at L-1. I learned from my first game from long ago not to talk about Power roles or anything of the sort day 1; and even if I couldn't have lynched 2.7, I think I would have waited it out and said I was vanilla Town, since claiming day 1 with no night reads is pretty lame, even if it would have saved me from dying as town. And then I would have been roleblocked or night killed for the remaining play too, which is also lame.

I can’t believe my first serious set of reads that I prob town read the scum team

#malasucks

Not meaning to be a dick, but after thinking about the game, I can't shake the memory that you also thought I was clearly flipping red in second day when I was actually a town PR too. lol. I guess these games are funny sometimes.

By the way, what was it that was supposedly a scum slip by Egix in the mafia thread? I thought his reaction odd, as did I think everyone, but that's not really uncommon. People get emotional and sub out for all sorts of stuff, unless I'm just being naive.

You played a great game. Your pick of reading Saudade swung all the momentum

[SuperfluousNinja]

Not to mention you had to fill in for someone later

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ninja, Micc
vote alien asap.
If Saudade gets lynched this will result in a 2v1 with no confirmed townies.
If we lynch alien we get a 4v1 with 1 confirmed town(and one likely town, Saudade)

This is all post game but if Saudade had been a goon and the game would have kept going, this would have made your scummyness clear as day. The only thing you said here was "vote Alien because he's scum!" Everything else you said was just the consequences of the scenario; you didn't post any actual evidence.

Being cop, I knew there was only a 2/9 chance that a neopolitan could exist, so I found it a very credible claim.

And at the very least, even if Alien actually were scum, there were TWO confirmed townies, Micc and myself. If you were talking to me like that, you had to have trusted me, which means you had to believe I really was cop and really had checked Micc and found him to be town. There's no way you mess that up if you're actually town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@scum team, what was the thinking behind the Ethos kill?

PR hunting gone wrong.

IMO Light Ethos was a clear vanilla town. To me a vanilla townie relentlessly pushes angles and questions everyone without fear of consequence. In fact, vanilla town WANTS attention because it means the actual power roles get less as a result. I figured it was because Light Ethos was the strongest town player (and I believe this to be true...no offense to anyone else. But his post count was very high and he questioned absolutely everything).

Part of the reason I was so all over the place was to give this impression. I thought nobody would ever suspect me of being power town by contributing as much as I did. I also had to throw out some stupid crap so I could still draw some suspicion and be someone that mafia feels like they ought to keep alive to try and frame.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Micc, the reason I checked you was because I came out of day 1 feeling like I didn't trust you at all, and with you being IC and being so much more experienced than everyone else, I had to know if I could trust you. I'm really glad I did since you started Day 2 saying you had 0 scum reads which I would have otherwise found really hard to believe for an experienced player like yourself. Day 2 could have been a lot different if I didn't trust you.

I didn't want to check Alien because I read him so strongly as town and honestly felt like he was going to die the next day anyway. Saudade was actually my #2 pick for scum check.

I really wish 2.718 had fought harder against his lynch. He reached a point where he just gave up and chalked it up to being a player who struggles day 1, but I don't think it's about how you play, really. If you're town, the truth has a way of presenting itself. Put out enough volume and the case against you will just break apart. That's exactly what Lafayette did and he did it really well. Same for Malakittens.

[SuperfluousNinja]

The existence of this setup undermines the entirety of the newbie queue.

Sorry that this happened.

Not sure I follow?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Scum could have, and IMO should have, made a fake claim that would have invalidated Alien's claim and cast doubt on my own claim. If we lynched Alien, sure Saudade would have gotten lynched the next day, but in that time scum collects 2 more kills. We'd reach a 2v1 situation pretty easily.

[SuperfluousNinja]

if saudade claims PR after alien has already claimed a guilty on them it's not going to be super effective.

NK is the one I'm thinking of here. He could claim doctor. Then I'd be led to believe we have a doctor + cop town and that leaves no room for neapolitan. If we mislynch alien on day 2, that guarantees that Saudade is guilty, sure. But then they know either I or NK are scum. That's not a big deal to have the pool whittled down like that because if they then lynch me, they've won. And if they lynch Saudade on day 3, it's me vs NK plus one other person who has to decide which is guilty for the final day.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also, Alien could have very easily checked the wrong person (statistically speaking, if we don't consider reads, it's far more likely he reads the wrong person). Hell he could have read ME and found me to be non-vanilla town and then maybe I'm screwed.

[SuperfluousNinja]

BTW, what is a “bellend”?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I’ve got a pretty good idea.