Newbie 1897 (Game Over)

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Hi everybody

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I just got back from the pub. It's freeeeeezing D:

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I just got back from the pub. It's freeeeeezing D:

I wish I was coming back from the pub... What were you drinking?

Normally just beer but today prosecco lol

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I'm not even a real Geordie, I lived in Newcastle back in 2010 when I used to play on here and like...I got back into play but I've just not got round to changing my location lol. I'm from the south which is awful.

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Fair comment

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Haha, I'm always trying to tell my friends in other cities about this thing where you can get three treble vodkas for £5 like everywhere you go. Some places even used to do it for £4. But my friends don't believe me.

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Someone tell me their Funniest Mafia Story.

On epicmafia there’s a role called the ‘oracle’ which is townsided, you select a person at night and if you die, their role is revealed.

I had a situation where I was the last remaining mafia, accidentally killed the oracle and was revealed as mafia. Often when this happens I do this bit which is like…’oh yeah, there’s a glitch on the website, it’s pretty well known, the oracle glitch. there’s a thread about it on the forum, sometimes blues get revealed as mafia, but it’s a glitch and they’re looking into getting it fixed’.

Obviously normally people are like ‘haha’ and then immediately lynch me, but in this one game it got to the 3-way, I was revealed as maf, but one of the townies legit believed my oracle glitch thing, hammered the other guy, and I won. And in the post game the whole graveyard had a massive go at him and he was just like ‘but…I thought…the oracle glitch???’

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Someone tell me their Funniest Mafia Story.

Once 6 years ago I was playing as mafia and randomly ended up being on the same airplane as my fellow member.

That's crazy, how did it even come up in the conversation?

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I don't like this at all. I hope this was tongue-in-cheek.

I don't like this post because you acknowledge the tongue-in-cheekness but still have a problem with it somehow. You can't have it both ways like this, is there some other thing about that post that bothers you?

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I don't get how you can not be sure though. The alternatives are that he genuinely believes that lynching somebody on the basis that in the last game they were lynched town won is a good strategy. Or he is mafia and believes that he can convince other town members that lynching somebody on the basis that last game they were lynched town won is a good strategy.

These aren't genuine points of view that a person could possibly hold, surely?

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if anyone thinks a prior game can somehow shadow a current game that person is crazy

He doesn't think that though, it's clearly a tongue-in-cheek post, that's my point.

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If Qubo does? Then he's insane. But it's not reasonable to assume he genuinely believes it, especially given the tone of his post.

So safebet222 takes an obviously joke post, goes 'hey what if this isn't a joke post...then it's really scummy right?'. It seems like you really have to bend over backwards to make that argument, or it's 'forced' as people say. That is what my objection was, I don't think we were on the same page like you say.

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I feel like Thespio has either misread the conversation between me and safebet222 or I'm not sure. safebet222 is fine for now and was probably just trying to get the game rolling, but Thespio is questionable.

With the oracle glitch thing, when I said that I never ever expected in a million years that somebody would actually believe it. You make a good point bringing that up though, people will believe completely mad things every now and again I guess.

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Well he said that you and I were on the same page when we weren’t, he said that I was uneasy about Qubo’s post when I wasn’t, and then he characterised your original post as ‘I recognize your humor, but hey! don't accuse me’, which…I’m just not sure which game he’s reading I guess.

I don’t see anything particularly alignment indicative from anyone at the moment. I thought you were scummy originally but then you defend yourself well.

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@Everyone:
Whats your experience in playing mafia?
Whats your favorite alignment, if you have one?

I started off playing with friends in real life and on private forums about ten years ago. I've played maybe about ten games on this forum and then thousands on epicmafia over the years. I didn't play forum mafia for about six years but recently decided it might be interesting to get back into.

I only really like playing townsided roles. Weirdly I don't recall ever being mafia sided in a forum game, so I don't know if it would be easier on a forum than on epicmafia or whatever, but in general I'm such a bad liar that being mafia doesn't excite me. It is the deception spotting aspect of this game that is interesting to me.

This is a real slow paced game so far, yeah.

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You have a person assigned as moderator who directs it, so like night one they'll tell everyone to close their eyes, then be like 'mafia open their eyes and point to who you want to kill', then 'cop open your eyes and tell me who you want to investigate' and the moderator will give them a thumbs up if they're town or thumbs down if they're mafia or whatever, etc.. Otherwise I think it's roughly the same. I think a game probably lasts like 10-15 minutes so we'll bash through like three or four of them.

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Is there any logic to this besides to drum up conversation?

This is roughly the same as what safebet222 did in his post where he said 'I don't like this behaviour' and then immediately answered his own question as to the townsided motivation for that behaviour in the same post.

Like you know that you don't have a case but still try to make a case anyway.

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No time limit, maybe you'd be surprised by how naturally the game seems to progress in real life. You don't really ever end up in these situations where nothing's really happening like in certain online games. Of course you can use a time limit if you wish or an app or whatever, that's the fun thing about mafia/werewolves, it's a mega customisable game.

I eliminate the likelihood of cheaters by not being friends with the types of people who would cheat at games in the first place.

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If I look at Clemency's past games, I find one where he complains about people getting off topic. He's like 'this is mafia, not our chatroom'.

I'm wondering why he hasn't had the same complaint so far this game.

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that game was 'bout a year or two ago

And in that time your personality changed and people talking off topic doesn't bother you any more?

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correct me if i'm wrong

How can you have been playing for two years and still not be sure if lynching day 1 in a newbie setup is the best strategy or not? This reads more like somebody self conscious about coming across too assertive.

This is the best lynch for the time being.

VOTE: Clemency

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If you're planning on playing low effort/enthusiasm then why should we not lynch you as opposed to some other person? Presumably you believe that you never have enough information to make an informed decision on day one anyway (as per some other game I've read of yours where you said something roughly along the lines of you don't normally have any reads until page 700)?

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Surely every argument day one could be characterised as 'making something out of nothing' though? Like the game's gotta start somewhere.

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Don't recall voting myself but it wouldn't be the first time in my life that I've done some completely mad thing and then forgotten about it.

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I don't really have a reads list other than Clemency is straight up mafia, Alonzo is probably town, safebet222 is like slightly town, and everyone else I pretty much have no opinion on. Actually I only post this because I haven't posted for 36 hours.

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I really don't like playing mafia sided roles and I'm bad at them. Therefore if I was mafia, bussing my partner as like the first thing I do d1 would just be suicide for me, like why would I make it way more difficult for myself if I already don't enjoy being in that position. Obviously you're welcome not to believe me on this, but that is my argument.

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Conveniently safebet is on your wagon and Alonzo is the other big wagon
Mind elaborating on these a bit? I get the feeling you're getting a little biased.

'Wagons' don't interest me and I had no idea who either of them were voting for at the time of that post, and even if I did I'm not sure what point you were trying to make about who's voting for who or whatever. If I remember correctly a lot of the votes that are down at this stage of the game are still basically people's random votes.

Clemency is trying to debase my read on him by saying I am 'nitpicking', saying I am 'pulling stuff out of thin air'. At the same time he is appealing to his 'playstyle', so apparently the stuff that I pulled out of thin air was

not

pulled out of thin air because he agrees that it's a facet of his play. I didn't even do anything 'nitpicky' in the first place, that's literally what this game is, analysing subtle choices in people's words as indicators of their psychic state. Surely in the games he's played he must have come across this concept and other people doing it? It strikes me as well that it wouldn't have bothered him if I had made the same argument against somebody else.

He says 'you can't build a case on me just out of me being a reactionary player'. I don't know what he thinks the word 'reactionary' means, but whatever it is I don't think that's even an accurate portrayal of what my case was on him in the first place.

Then at the same time he's trying to garner sympathy by saying I am getting on his nerves, he says he '[doesn't] feel motivated to play games where [he gets] picked out for [his] style of play' (or in other words I am picking on him). This happened in a game before - I made a completely impassive argument against somebody and they started appealing to how I was personally attacking them. That person turned out to be mafia. I know 1 isn't necessarily the biggest sample size ever but still...

Also how can he be uninvested in the game yet responding to me emotionally simultaneously? Inconsistent emotional state such as this is a good indicator of deception, I'll dig up an article on this if I can be bothered.

What would the specific bias that I have be exactly?

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Again doesn't respond to my actual points but tries to appeal to the rest of the town by discrediting them in a more general sense.

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I know you are but what am I?

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quit trying to brush off what i'm saying as what you're "perceiving" it as

you act as if it's all solid fact

Which one is it?

----

Plus there are no examples in this game of me acting as if anything is a solid fact. What do you want me to do, write 'by the way this is just my opinion' at the end of every sentence?

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Alonzo was trying to get the game moving by hopping his vote around. He's played a lot of newbie games, and I feel like once you've played two or three games of this you are aware that if you do stuff like this, the new players are likely to read you as mafia because new players tend to just find anything they find

out of the ordinary

suspicious. With this knowledge I can't imagine him hopping around like this too much if he were maf. He also said 'I am going to vote the person with the lowest post count'. It was inevitable that one of the newer players was going to jump on that, so again, why do that if you're mafia given that it's going to raise suspicion? Hence why I view him as town.

I completely can't remember why I have a slight townread on safebet222 but it is probably just instinct or whatever. That said he's one of the few if not only players in this game who has a reasonable assessment on Clemency so that must count for something.

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is/was there scum on his wagon and who is it?

To answer this question, I don't know. I notice that this game you are sorta different stylistically to how you were when you were mafia last game, but you were also poorly last game so that might actually be why it is instead.

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The other thing is that as far as I can work out, every vote on Alonzo in this game so far has been a random vote, so I feel like characterising it as a 'wagon' isn't right.

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1. Clemency is that passive when he is mafia too so he can't get a free pass on the basis of that. It's not a playstyle disagreement, I'm constantly reading back through people's games to establish their playstyle, I dunno if you've noticed I do this.
2. You can't tell me that I am tunnelling and then say you would like it if I engaged his slot a bit more.
3. I don't need to establish a 'mafia motivation' necessarily. His reaction to my initially suspecting him was as bad as it gets and he couldn't defend himself. I dunno how I can say that he was 'motivated to react badly and not defend himself as mafia' if that makes sense, I'm struggling to word this. But it seems to me that he feels like I didn't have a good reason for suspecting him, so therefore my identifying him as mafia was a fluke, hence why he finds the whole thing so annoying.

You are more aggressively questioning people and taking charge of things in this game whereas I feel like in the last game you sorta sat there. Although to be perfectly honest I didn't pay massive amounts of attention to your slot last game cause I sorta townread it immediately. Oops. So I might be misremembering. But also you might be different this game cause the activity level is significantly lower, I dunno.

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I'd rather take the time to establish reads on as many players as possible rather than just pushing a lynchbaity player.

Obviously just for clarification I don't think 'pushing a lynchbaity player' is what i'm doing, but also I feel like 'establishing reads on as many players as possible' is a bit of a challenge when the activity level is so low and there are four days left, and will end up in a 'Chinese Fire Drill' situation.

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I don't think I ever said that, I said you should be engaging other slots as well.

Oh you're right about this, sorry, I misread a sentence.

I feel like town are less likely to get annoyed about a bad argument against them (not that my argument was bad of course but that's how he sees it) because they're aware that the person making that argument could be mafia and that the person themselves may know that they're making a bad argument. This is what's questionable to me about Clemency, if he leans towards thinking that I'm mafia anyway then how do my arguments still manage to get on his nerves?

When you say 'this isn't proof in itself', this is apparently called the 'part whole fallacy'. Don't take it from me, take it from this

real lawyer

at 13m33s - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om6BMBhhoPo&t=13m33s

I didn't say or imply that his getting annoyed was proof that he's mafia. My argument in summary was that his initial 'correct me if I'm wrong' about something he shouldn't need to be corrected on was sketchy, he tried to handwave my argument away by effectively saying 'stop analysing my words' despite this being the absolute fundamental essence of the game, and he then tried to make it into like a personal thing (which like I say I've only ever seen once before (I said somebody was over-defensive and that the things they thought were scumtells weren't, and they went on a massive tirade about how I was attacking them personally lol) from somebody who was mafia sided). So more accurately his

way of getting annoyed

is something I would expect more from a mafia sided person than a town sided person, not the fact that he got annoyed in and of itself.

I see why you think I am sort of thinking in a circle, but I feel like 'this is how I would expect one to behave if they were mafia' is a reasonable way of approaching things.

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So you think that the

most likely scenario

is that both me and Clemency are mafia together?

you often make statements that "hes mafia" and "Scummy"

This is not true at all. Anybody can check this by doing an ISO of me and searching for these terms, I have not once described VeridianCleric as 'scummy'. I have used the word 'scummy' twice in total in this game, once in post #53 where I am paraphrasing somebody else, and once in post #70 where I said that I thought safebet222 was scummy. Nor have I sat there going 'hes mafia' (sic), I have outlined my points in far more detail than you make me out to have done. You say I 'often' make these statements, I demonstrably don't, in fact one of the statements you say I 'often' make I have made exactly zero times.

What you're accusing me of here is completely not true. What's the point in me bothering to type anything out if people are not going to read it and are just going to come up with their own impressionistic versions of what I said?

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We had a discussion at the end of last game about how if you want to practice your mafia-sided game, the best thing to do is just replace into newbie games because mafia-sided players drop out in the newbie games at a disproportionately high rate.

Anybody got any good data on that?

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^

Did you not read my reply to this where I said that none of this was true?

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Okay fair enough. Generally when people do '^' like that it's like a '+1' or some other expression of agreement.

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Umm... @Trendall... VeridianCleric was referring to you going after Clemency and you literally said this...

He said that I 'often' say such things though. You can find one example of me describing someone as mafia. I'm not sure how I'm meant to give a reads list without doing this exactly.

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Well I mean the replacement's mafia too, he spends two posts subtly trying to imply that I'm mafia without saying it directly, then unvotes me for some reason, then says I am the most shady.

He says "the only players that would push a miss lynch on purpose are those that know that it is a miss lynch to begin with" after having said "it could be a case of an over aggressive Townie" and "I would have voted to lynch the former occupant of this slot, I see him as a easy miss lynch candidate.". So if the only people who would vote Clemency are mafia, why is he saying he would have voted Clemency himself? He's unsure of what his own opinions are and hesitant about trying to go after me.

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I thought you were scummy

Talking about safebet222, subliminarl message to town that player is scummy

This is fucking shit, you have obviously taken me out of context here. What I actually said in full, which anybody can go back and look at was

I don’t see anything particularly alignment indicative from anyone at the moment. I thought you were scummy originally but then you defend yourself well.

How is that a 'sublirminorlly message to town that player is scummy'? The whole crux of the post was that I didn't see a reason to think he was mafia. Clearly it's not a problem with your reading comprehension but rather you are trying to deliberately manipulate what I said. So..

VOTE: ViridianCleric

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Your argument is 'Trendall keeps saying that the guy who he thinks is mafia is mafia', it's a fucking joke.

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He didn't ask me a single question, he just made a bunch of statements which have a very tenuous connection with what has happened in the game so far.

Again stop sitting there implying stuff like 'interesting', if you think I'm mafia vote me.

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So do you think that by virtue of the fact that he replaced out, everything that Clemency did should be forgotten and everybody's read of that slot should go back to square one?