Newbie 1897 (Game Over)

[safebet222]

VOTE: Clemency

You have to be guilty to need Clemency.

[safebet222]

Alrighty let's get some conversation going so this doesn't so stale

How's the weather where y'all live?

I live in Wisconsin... It's cold and gloomy.

[safebet222]

I just got back from the pub. It's freeeeeezing D:

I wish I was coming back from the pub... What were you drinking?

[safebet222]

I just got back from the pub. It's freeeeeezing D:

I wish I was coming back from the pub... What were you drinking?

Normally just beer but today prosecco lol

JUST BEER?!?!? Shame on you for having those thoughts thought up. Beer is civilization... It is the cause of and solution to all of man's problems.

[safebet222]

I'm not even a real Geordie, I lived in Newcastle back in 2010 when I used to play on here and like...I got back into play but I've just not got round to changing my location lol. I'm from the south which is awful.

Oi Im from the south =)

I just got back from the pub. It's freeeeeezing D:

I wish I was coming back from the pub... What were you drinking?

Normally just beer but today prosecco lol

JUST BEER?!?!? Shame on you for having those thoughts thought up. Beer is civilization... It is the cause of and solution to all of man's problems.

I'd wager Newcastle is the only place on Earth they serve Prosecco in Pint Glasses....U know...For the Lasses! (Ladies*)

(*loosest possible interpretation. If Trump had a baby with an Ooompa loompa = Girls from Newcastle.)

(**Luckily they drink Enough beer in Newcastle to keep the world Turning somehow, Not sure I'd call it Civilisation)

(***Moves Trendall to Top of list of people who may or may not have had Chlamidiya at some point)

(****Moves Along)
(

I finally got a pint in my hand and you almost made me spit it all over the place...

[safebet222]

There's this game I was in recently where a VT got lynched and my team won! Oh wait that was you. Sorry about that. It's also my only game, so it has to count, right?

Gotta keep the lynch Alonzo for the win strategy going. Hammer on Alonzo = Scum. Fact. We need to up your vote count so Scum can hammer you again.

vote Alonzo

I don't like this at all. I hope this was tongue-in-cheek.

[safebet222]

If you are clean when you get out of the shower why do you have to wash the towels you dry off with?

Ewwww...

[safebet222]

I don't like this at all. I hope this was tongue-in-cheek.

I don't like this post because you acknowledge the tongue-in-cheekness but still have a problem with it somehow. You can't have it both ways like this, is there some other thing about that post that bothers you?

Yes, there is something else... I kind of read the post with a double purpose. Like a prescribed method of hunting scum. Like something that started as a joke but could gain steam and lead to multiple mislynches.

Of course... It might be simply just a tongue in cheek jab, not sure.

[safebet222]

Trendall... You're much more fun with a bottle of prosecco in you.

I assure you the joking nature of his post wasn't lost on me. Why is it unreasonable to see a post as having an ulterior motive? Wasn't the Oracle glitch bit a joke that won you a game as scum once?

[safebet222]

I feel like Thespio has either misread the conversation between me and safebet222 or I'm not sure. safebet222 is fine for now and was probably just trying to get the game rolling, but Thespio is questionable.

With the oracle glitch thing, when I said that I never ever expected in a million years that somebody would actually believe it. You make a good point bringing that up though, people will believe completely mad things every now and again I guess.

I like joking around as much as the next person, but I wasn't gonna talk about the damn weather for another 3 pages.

At any rate, Trendall, can you expand on why Thespio's defense of me is questionable? Is it questionable in a "reasonable/unreasonable" manner like your thoughts on my comments? Or do you see something that is possibly alignment indicative?

[safebet222]

@Everyone:
Whats your experience in playing mafia?
Whats your favorite alignment, if you have one?

I have next to zero previous experience. Played only one forum game here about 18 months ago. Was scheduled and won.

No RL experience in Mafia. I have played a little Town of Salem, but that doesn't count.

[safebet222]

@Everyone:
Whats your experience in playing mafia?
Whats your favorite alignment, if you have one?

I have next to zero previous experience. Played only one forum game here about 18 months ago. Was scum and won.

No RL experience in Mafia. I have played a little Town of Salem, but that doesn't count.

Fixed my post.

[safebet222]

I thought I read somewhere on the site that informed Lynch>random Lynch> no lynch. On D1

[safebet222]

@Clemency... you suck at commitment, you always have the lowest post count, you don't like to scrutinize players posts... do you like to play forum mafia?

[safebet222]

@Clemency... you suck at commitment, you always have the lowest post count, you don't like to scrutinize players posts... do you like to play forum mafia?

don't misrepresent me, i do find scrutinizing people important, but it's stuff like the post below that just gets on my nerves

correct me if i'm wrong

How can you have been playing for two years and still not be sure if lynching day 1 in a newbie setup is the best strategy or not? This reads more like somebody self conscious about coming across too assertive.

This is the best lynch for the time being.

VOTE: Clemency

how does this not throw any red flags for any of you? i don't see how you can vote based on such a tiny nitpick and get away with it without anyone immediately jumping on you

Well, I don't understand how I'm misrepresenting you. I'm paraphrasing your own posts...

Trendall's vote, while not an RVS vote and far from trivial, is also not an imminent threat. It would be much different if he were to have put Alonzo on L-1. I'm sure this wasn't lost on you.

It seems you took pains to make it known that you don't like to take risks to move the game along yourself... Now you deflect suspicion back on someone actively trying to move the game along. How is that not supposed to ping me? Am I really that off base?

[safebet222]

Reads anyone?

Obviously I'm annoyed at Clemency.

Otherwise,

In day 1's I often don't see checking post counts as decent method to flush out scum, as Alonzo said he is going to vote on that with the lowest post count, how to you measure that against somebody like Roo who subbed in? What about others posting a lot but having nothing to do with the game itself? Perhaps they are over-posting as overcompensation for being scum themselves and give the appearance of being beneficial?

to be fair @Clemency right now has posted way more than Qubu

Actually going back Qubu has only posted twice, both times going after Alonzo, the second time was self quoting their prior vote post trying to push Alonzo as scum just because it happened in another game?

Now suddenly Qubu is extremely quiet in the discussion about number of posts, seems pretty suspect.

Vote: Qubu

@VeridianCleric Why the change in heart, I thought going off post counts D1 isn't a very useful scumhunting tactic D1? How is your vote on Qubu different from what you said wasn't useful?

[safebet222]

@Clemency: you took issue with Trendall's reasoning when voting you — do you lean scum on his slot? If so, why aren't you pushing him for his opportunism more?

Hello NN (if I may)...

Do you think that there is something about Clemency and Trendall's exchange that isn't TvT or SvT... Is there something SvS about it? I have a hard time believing scum would be going after each other this early, but of course, my first game was before scum had daychat.

[safebet222]

I don't really like to speculate on associations too much early on, but I'm not really seeing SvS as likely. Distancing in such a slow game doesn't seem necessary considering I'd personally have a hard time finding concrete associations between any two players and they're going (somewhat) deep on eachother. I guess it's something to keep in mind going forward, hard to judge SvS early on and it's even harder to fake it convincingly.

What strikes you as staged in their interactions? Seems like you have real issues with them.

My Clemency vote was in RVS... However I am annoyed by his play. I don't necessarily think I should town read him because "that's his style." When you said he doesn't have a lot of scum equity, does he have town equity then? I don't think so. So if he doesn't start doing something positive to show that suspicion is poorly placed on him or better placed on someone else, he's dead weight.

As far as does the interaction seem staged... It was a thought I entertained... I can only imagine how hard that is to pull of, even with daychat but it's a possibility. I can see Trendall's play as having either town or Mafia motives.

[safebet222]

I'd much rather lynch scum than bad town, basically, and I think Clemency's slot is probably a suboptimal lynch overall, unless someone can establish to me that there's mafia motivation in his play. I'd rather take the time to establish reads on as many players as possible rather than just pushing a lynchbaity player.

I'd probably lynch him in a scramble if it came down to it, but let's try to avoid that.

Agreed on the point that I'd rather kill scum than bad town, just keep an open mind about the matter.

I'm interested in some of the posts people have promised (Veridian's top down list and Mala's read on Veridian, in particular).

I'll probably wait until the two of them contribute a bit more plus I want to hear from Roo again before making any sort of list.

[safebet222]

alright i think i'm gonna replace out
i forgot newbie games are like 10x stricter than normal games (how that makes sense i'll never know)

Yeah, bruh!! Awesome...

7/9 times Town is carrying Clemency. I think its definate +eq for town, so nice move clem.

Anyone whos already got a hard on for lynching that slot should declare it.

Feels mislynchy to me.

At least someone is bringing me back to my senses, I seriously wanted to spite lynch the slot. This snapped me out of my stupor.

@Alonzo... you must have a propensity for positive thinking... I admire that.

UNVOTE: Clemency or whoever gets the pleasure of filling that slot.

[safebet222]

So you think that the

most likely scenario

is that both me and Clemency are mafia together?

you often make statements that "hes mafia" and "Scummy"

This is not true at all. Anybody can check this by doing an ISO of me and searching for these terms, I have not once described VeridianCleric as 'scummy'. I have used the word 'scummy' twice in total in this game, once in post #53 where I am paraphrasing somebody else, and once in post #70 where I said that I thought safebet222 was scummy. Nor have I sat there going 'hes mafia' (sic), I have outlined my points in far more detail than you make me out to have done. You say I 'often' make these statements, I demonstrably don't, in fact one of the statements you say I 'often' make I have made exactly zero times.

What you're accusing me of here is completely not true. What's the point in me bothering to type anything out if people are not going to read it and are just going to come up with their own impressionistic versions of what I said?

Umm... @Trendall... VeridianCleric was referring to you going after Clemency and you literally said this...

I don't really have a reads list other than Clemency is straight up mafia

, Alonzo is probably town, safebet222 is like slightly town, and everyone else I pretty much have no opinion on. Actually I only post this because I haven't posted for 36 hours.

I did go back and try (quickly) to re-read Trendall's comments
seems most of his mafia/scum comments were in light of referencing previous games and conversations.

I'll have to go and do another deeper read later tonight on those, I admit I may have been wrong/misread those.

However, I had already responded that I believed it was SvT not a SvS in the Trendall/Clemency discussion.

Clemency stepping out bothers me, my experience from before when I used to play was new players struggled playing non-town allied roles and did just that. And often near deadlines when town wouldn't have time to get a proper read on a replacement player.

@VeridianCleric... Seriously? You can't remember when someone literally states that he thinks another player is "straight up mafia"?

[safebet222]

You seem to let people off the hook real easy... I mean by your own admission you think the Trendall/Clemency wall is TvS, so it's either Trendall or the new player... I'm beginning to think that you don't have an interest in going after anybody while looking real active doing it...

The more I think about it... I'm beginning to think the Trendall/Clemency thing is most likely TvT...

VOTE: VeridianCleric

[safebet222]

@Alonzo... How do you feel about Veridian?

Isn't his attack on Trednall feel just a bit opportunistic?

[safebet222]

@Alonzo... How do you feel about Veridian?

Doesn't

his attack on Trednall feel just a bit opportunistic?

The English grammar police called. Fixed my post.

[safebet222]

@NotNova I do not think that the Clemency/Trendall interaction is SvS. As too which is scummier they both have shown attributes towards it.
I have a theory which I can display later but announcing it would kinda destroy the method to figure it out LOL

I was just re reading that, Verid has been pushing his angle for a while now.

Opportunistic isn't the word I'd use, as that implies Verid wasn't working this angle prior to the vote, but the timing of the vote (and to some extent the strength of the arguement) means that Trendall Is now a very real candidate for the chop.

It's certainly a very strong play arriving now as it does.

I got that it was for me...

Trendall has requested replacement, which I am currently seeking.

Okay so its story time...

My only other game, Newbie 1794, I drew scum (actually replaced into the scum spot, lol!). Anyhow, in that game, Michael Lee was a SUPER aggressive player, especially day one. Aggressive on the attack and aggressive on the defense. If I remember correctly, the reads on him D1 were all over the place from the other players.

As the day went on, someone else ended up getting killed and D2 started and I worked myself into trouble before long and was put L-1 with my scum partner putting the intent to hammer. I made the world's worst fake claim but the only person that could CC was V/LA with like zero internet access (I was the world's luckiest noobscum). With just hours to play before D2 ended, and after everyone else jumped off my wagon, Michael's wagon took off and he was mislynched.

So, Trendall was this games' Michael Lee. I was betting Trendall was town because of it. Its a shame he's gonna replace... just as we were getting somewhere.

[safebet222]

I believe that puts Veridian at L-1... Me, Trendall, Too and Thespio.

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The SE's or IC can correct me if I'm wrong... At L-1 the next vote kills so we generally expect someone to declare an intent to hammer, and wait for the player on L-1 to respond, role claim, etc before hammering them.

[safebet222]

I let someone else get into quickhammering, derphammer, etc.

[safebet222]

@reaper... How do you feel about Veridian's latest posts, advocacy of a no lynch and such?

[safebet222]

The logic is faulty... In this setup a no lynch is worse, even mathematically, than a mislynch is for town. The only difference, in a vacuum, between 6v2 and 5v2 on D2 is that you are mathematically more likely to mislynch in 6v2. In both situations, a mislynch brings lylo. If you think a no Lynch is better you think a no Lynch gives you more info than a Lynch... I think that's misguided at best and probably scummy

[safebet222]

Alonzo... What do you think of Veridian's last posts?

[safebet222]

that said flipping him Rn does give more info than a no lynch, I'd speculate he may even haave 2 scum on his wagon already

Interesting... humor me... What combinations do you see? Roo/Thespio?

[safebet222]

@Alonza @Safebet222
so to confirm your belief is that risking lynching a townie is better then a no lynch, regardless if people have stated they think that players pro-town?

Affirmative... In this particular set up. There's no third faction nor vig or other town killing role, which brings in plays that I don't fully understand.

[safebet222]

@safebet222 you've seemed to be pushing on me since I retracted comments on Trendall when i couldn't find the source, asand harder since I provided the quote points to re-prove my points against the Trendall slot

Now as votes compound you are actively encouraging others to sway their votes towards me, why is that precisely? As others have openly stated they feel i'm pro town how would the focus there be of benefit? simply because unlike Trendall or Clemency I haven't been subbed out/replaced. (It IS Annoying how many have done that here though, ugh)

It is hard for me to believe that you're not going to remember when someone says that another is straight up mafia. Secondly, I think it's convenient that you would do a post by post read and push Trendall only after I called you out on it. Thirdly, I disagreed with most of the argument you presented in that post by post on Trendall. In addition, I think it's scummy that you continue to push a bad D1 strategy for town. Lastly, your argument against Trendall is ultimately his aggressiveness and I think you are flat wrong as I gave my feeling on that slot.

But that isn't the reason I'm asking about you to other players...(I ran out of conjunctive adverbs, anyway ) There is little time left and I'm trying to gauge how others feel about your slot before there is intent to hammer, that way, if there is a better wagon for town, we can get on it before its too late.

[safebet222]

The logic is faulty... In this setup a no lynch is worse, even mathematically, than a mislynch is for town. The only difference, in a vacuum, between 6v2 and 5v2 on D2 is that you are mathematically more likely to mislynch in 6v2. In both situations, a mislynch brings lylo. If you think a no Lynch is better you think a no Lynch gives you more info than a Lynch... I think that's misguided at best and probably scummy

I didn't advocate a non lynch. Just said I was more in favor of a informed lynch. As I have more of a town lean from Verdi, there are others I feel would be more worthy of a vote.

I know you didn't. Veridian is and the logic behind it is faulty. Sorry for the mix-up.

[safebet222]

I really don't understand why people are town read/scumread solely based on aggressiveness/passivity or how well/poorly they defend themselves or make points in a one on one... Doesn't it all depend on context?

At any rate, the day ends at 8 am local time and I doubt I'll have time to post again after I go to bed tonight. I hope VC responds soon.