[Game Over] Newbie 1900 - Robocalypse

[lionheart1492]

volxen (L-3)

: Auro, Flavor Leaf

YurikoJasmine (L-3)

: YurikoJasmine, Not_Mafia

Lamees (L-4)

: white candy

Auro (L-4)

: Lamees

white candy (L-4)

: volxen

Not_Mafia (L-4)

: lionheart1492

snowbeast

We're going on a scum hunt
We're gonna catch at least one (I hope)
I'm not scared
What a beautiful day!

VOTE: Not_Mafia
Scummiest name world.

[lionheart1492]

I have not played a game of mafia in over 2 years and I was pretty bad back then but I'm gonna try it out now because the game has always been super cool to me. Overall I have <10 games of experience, never on this forum.

[lionheart1492]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Yuriko Jasmine

What purpose does your question to auro serve if you are town?

[lionheart1492]

Volxen's long-winded paragraph in #51 where he mentions that auro played rvs similarly in a previous scum game but then also mentions that he doesn't really know auro's meta having only played the one game together bugs me a lot. He's going back and forth on whether or not he wants to go after auro for a weak (at best) meta read. Also, he backs up this meta read with some mudslinging about how auro is really good at being mafia and we need to be afraid of him! I understand we're barely out of rvs so it's hard to have much but why bother with all of the mudslinging and wishy-washiness?
UNVOTE: Yuriko_Jasmine
VOTE: Volxen

Feels like the posts between auro and lamees are auro reaction testing and getting nothing. I didn't get anything from it either really.

Yuriko popping in to be like "why lamees" still has me unhappy but not worth a vote when I feel the way I do about volxen's post. To elaborate on why I find it suspicious though, in effect Yuriko sees auro attempting to make discussion happen very early in the game and tries to poke holes in it in a very non-committal way. This is especially bad because it happened so early. If at the time we had several active players and lots of content auro going for a specific person's vote could be scummy depending on the situation. At the very beginning of the game with less than half of the game posting he's clearly just messing around seeing what will happen and yuriko's post sets her up to either say "ha I knew that was scummy!" or "yeah that wasn't a big deal."

[lionheart1492]

fwiw mudslinging isn't the best word for my opinion on volx but it's the one I used bc it's close enough and I explained it more in depth in the original post. Fearmongering is a better word if you're struggling to understand my argument.

[lionheart1492]

You referenced a lack of clarity and I wanted to clear it up in case anyone else didn't fully understand. The post was addressing anyone in the game who didn't understand my wording.

[lionheart1492]

Ari isn't really contributing anything to the game with any of those posts. "why did you vote randomly in RVS" sounds like trolling.

[lionheart1492]

in my experience even RVS votes have at least done kind of (usually silly) justification, so I'm curious as to why lam decided not to do that

But it's not at all alignment indicative. I just find it incredibly pointless as a line of questioning because even if the person is scum there's nothing there to push them on.

Also, I would rather we didn't all start outing D1 townreads with no guarantee of protection because it makes mafia kills too easy. If someone is getting votes and you need to stop them getting wagoned because you think they're town it's one thing but just listing a townread on me (0 votes) accomplishes nothing rn.

[lionheart1492]

By "making mafia kills easier" I'm referring to their decision, targetting the hardest people to lynch is an easy call for mafia. I'm not really here to argue the validity of posting early townreads so I won't go further into that.

[lionheart1492]

The Transformer's behavior struck me very odd. The brave Lionheart had stepped up and voiced suspicion on Volxen, and Volxen chose to rather look at me and ask what *I* thought of it. I told him I'd much rather let him engage directly, but to my surprise, he... Began to nap again!

Volxen, I notice you're active elsewhere on site, and you seem to be ignoring Lionheart's case -- your last post simply dismissing it and diving into wagon analysis spec. I get the feeling you're waiting for something more significant to happen.

Scumlean.

Yeah the volx reaction to my case is only making me more confident in my read.

[lionheart1492]

I was not "mudslinging" at Auro, I was merely stating the fact that sorting his slot is something that I am going to prioritize, because I have firsthand experience with his scumgame. That is not the same as me automatically coming to the conclusion that he is scum based on our past game together. I will be evaluating him based on what he does in this game.

My vote for Auro itself was to see how he would react, just as he voted for me to see how I would react. In our back-and-forth conversation, we both admitted as much. You seem to be suggesting that I am trying to push a case against scum!Auro based on our previous game together, which is not the case. He is still a nullread for me at the moment.

Also, I think you really overreacted to Yuriko's "Why Lamees" question to Auro. I believe she literally was just asking, "Why are you asking Lamees specifically to vote for Volxen?". I did not at all read that as her trying to stifle discussion or discourage Auro from trying to get people to vote for me. I think she was just genuinely curious why Auro asked Lamees specifically (as opposed to someone else) to vote for me.

So I did clarify that a better word would be fearmongering and this was one of the reasons. Broadcasting to the entire game that Auro is good at being mafia and deserves special attention would qualify as fearmongering. I consider fearmongering very scummy. Especially when, as you say yourself, you're nullreading the person in question.

The Yuriko post is definitely not a strong point but it's something that I found scummy so I brought it up.

[lionheart1492]

So back from my overnight hiking and have reread this thread twice.
As my first game I and not knowing any of you from a bar of soap I cannot judge your character, only thing I am looking for is two or three players moving in the same direction as the mafia need only two of us to believe them to get a lynch.

I've never played with any of these people before. Meta doesn't make a game of mafia, look at the content posts you see from a few of the players and try to look for motivation. Just lurking isn't going to work because your current plan isn't really going to work until we have flips.

Response to volx and a few other things coming soon.

[lionheart1492]

And why automatically jump to the conclusion that it was “fearmongering” to paint Auro in a negative light? All I said was that I, personally, would likely have a hard time accurately reading Auro based on our past experience together. I was not suggesting that everyone else would have a hard time reading him, nor was I saying that I would be making a decision on his slot based on our past game together. If I had said something along the lines of “Auro had a really good scum game in our last game together, and he is probably scum here again”, THAT would be fearmongering, because I would be using his past scum game to argue that he is likely scum again in this game, which is not a reasonable argument since him being scum in a previous game does not increase his chances of being scum again in this game.

But that’s not what happened. All I had was a one-on-one exchange with Auro where I commented that I would probably have a hard time reading his slot. Auro didn’t have a problem with me saying that and understood where I was coming from. As far as I can tell, no one else took issue with it either. You are the only person to come out and label it first “mudslinging”, and now “fearmongering”. I think you are overreacting to this, just like you overreacted to Yuriko’s “Why Lamees?” question. And I think it’s fair to say that some people are harder to read than others. So why couldn’t this be town!me publicly commenting that Auro will probably be one of the harder players for me to read, which was then followed by me engaging him to try to get a better read on his slot?

So we apparently have different definitions of fearmongering or something. If you said Auro was good at scum and we should lynch him because you don't want to get fooled again/he has a 100% scum rate in games you're in it would just be dismissed at rvs shenanigans and not worth anything. I consider it fearmongering specifically because you didn't commit to anything about it. You argue that your town motivation would be to just inform town that you'll be focusing on auro but I just don't see why you would do that as town. It doesn't further any discussion and it doesn't serve to start anything of itself (unless it's criticism such as my own which you would be avoiding. If you're mafia your motivation is clear, you see a player who you have some respect for and you attempt to instill doubt in the town regarding that person.

I'm of two minds regarding volxen after these last posts. He could be scum giving a well-argued defense and working only to deflect blame by defending himself, not making any aggressive claims to find "mafia." (it's my belief town has to be bold, especially day 1, or they just won't find mafia) Or he's town that is struggling to find reads in a game where most of the game is just waiting for something that won't happen unless they help make it happen. His push to get auro to comment on his exhange with me was at first scummy (before he had responded) but his responses since have been solid and he's persisted in trying to draw other people into commenting on our exchanges (which obviously doesn't play into the scum motive of defending himself).

For these reasons I shall UNVOTE: Volxen

Regarding the post FL just made I would kind of like some more reasoning but I'm honestly fairly onboard with NM v lamees at first glance.

[lionheart1492]

please elaborate on unnatural

[lionheart1492]

So looking at people with votes the realistic lynches are FL, NM and Yuriko. I'm not a fan of the FL lynch because I feel like he's kind of coasting on being IC. I don't think that he would do this 1v1 stuff as scum but I have no meta to go off so I can't say that with certainty. NM is just an awful lynch I don't see any reason to go for it tbh, I can't think of any reason he would play the way he is as either alignment. Yuriko I think is a realistic lynch because her Ariane vote is terrible (no real explanation) and the self vote interactions with nm look weird to me. Will read over her more later, please consider her as you read through. I could also kind of see a lamees lynch but its pretty weak and there aren't any votes.

Flavor Leaf, looks like nm lynch isn't going to work, is your second preference just going for lamees or would you be willing to lynch someone else?
Yuriko, would appreciate some sort of real content/interaction with other players.
Volxen (when you return), could you give us a few names you'd be willing to lynch?

My vote will be around to consolidate any lynch at any point (I don't work at phase end). If my vote is needed I will take basically any lynch over a no lynch since I'm not the most confident on any of my townreads atm. Need to reread and get some more info specifically on yuriko(lol), lamees and fl (I guess) starting in like 8 hours when I'm on thanksgiving break.

[lionheart1492]

Yuriko is the lynch, Auro lynch is bad

MY MIND'S TELLING ME NO
BUT MY BODY... MY BODY'S TELLING ME YES

[lionheart1492]

Volxen's opinion on flavor leaf is 10/10 quality thinking. I would say that there's no definitive read to get from his nm vote because even in a world where they're scumbros he could just be bussing to distance himself (no one's gonna lynch the guy who led a wagon on scum D1!).

Ariane what do you feel about lamees? Are you on the "this is how she plays as town" train or nah?

[lionheart1492]

Reading ISOs isn't going great because I'm p tired rn.
I'm honestly of the opinion that snowbeast might be scum who gave a fake townslip. The way he posts makes it seem like he's a smart guy who's just new to mafia and not sure what he's doing. Could totally see a world where he's scum who has at least some idea of what he's doing and is just trying to coast on being a newbie. It's not a strong read but reading his iso I could totally see it.

[lionheart1492]

To the rest of the game, who on the auro wagon are we lynching? I want a priority list of auro's wagon+auro (including volx because him refusing to commit to a scumread on auro that I've seen but staying on the wagon at L-2 or L-1 is sus af) from yuriko and FL. I'll be getting one myself after I drink some caffeine and read some isos. it looks like Lamees and volxen won't be moving their votes so fl might be our only other option, priority between those 2 should be top priority.

[lionheart1492]

I’m assuming auro is that the point where “anyone but me” is kicking in so I don’t really need that list from him but it would be nice if Yuriko or Ariane just hammers him.

Just read volx and he does have two posts that case auro and he says that there are other people he would possibly vote but at this point his vote has been on auro and only auro for a full week irl so there’s no way he Bails On the wagon now. We need Yurikos reads asap before we can really move forward on a lynch other than auro imo.

[lionheart1492]

So you’d rather get lynched than have ariane/nvm lynched?

Also I meant that your analysis of the wagon on you just altogether would be good to have In case you get hammered. I just prioritize wagon analysis from FL and yuriko more.

[lionheart1492]

Yeah fl coming in with the “it was reaction testing part 2 but this time it worked” is what I thought would happen. Auro saying that he is the only co firmed town to himself is what I was getting at with the “anyone but me” but now that fl is confirmed off the wagon he can get back to real scumhunting.

[lionheart1492]

Auro saying that he is the only co firmed town to himself is what I was getting at with the “anyone but me”

Everyone is confirmed town to themselves. Are you not?

It’s a newbie game so I was trying to just lay out the situation/make sure we’re all on the same page.

Flavor leaf is correct that him coming in and unvoting auro is his towniest move in this position but it could also just be him seeing a d2 Lynch on him in the cards when auro flipped town. Leaning town on him and wouldn’t lynch today but don’t think he’s obvious town.

[lionheart1492]

ok Lamees is town who has 1 read and has tunneled in on it at this point. Auro and FL are both bad lynches today. Where do you want to lynch instead? (Not necessarily awful if she’s at certain as she’s portraying)

I would love to lynch today so thanksgiving can be night phase. I’ll get my own priority out in a bit but it’s mt sisters birthday so Im mainly responding to stuff while with family rn.

[lionheart1492]

Ok I’m getting on a computer soon but ariane you’re actually just wrong about what you call compromise lynching. It’s not scummy, it’s how day 1 works. We need 5 votes and we need to lynch someone, no lynch is worse than lynching a lesser scum read day 1 every time.

Like I wouldn’t say I’m solidly scumreadinf anyone rn but the only people I wouldn’t take the role of 5th vote on are auro and nm. Anyone else is high enough % to be scum that I’ll take the chance and the information I get from their flip over a no lynch.

[lionheart1492]

At this point I'm for lynching someone tonight and not having to bother with the game tomorrow but an extension could also work I guess.

Also auro I'm looking for an avi lol

[lionheart1492]

He's scum I'm town. There's a difference.

Lamees is a null read for me because on the one hand why the fuck would she say this as scum but on the other hand why the fuck would she say this as town. That's how I feel about a good portion of the posts. Also voting nm when pretty much everyone else has stated they don't want that lynch at this point is just bad. We need to get a lynch together soon and day 1 scumread on someone who hasn't done that much just isn't a townie hill to die on. Lamees, do you believe that you have successfully found the scumteam and it is auro+nm?

Anyway, I'm pretty much back but I fell behind reads wise over the last few days because I was mainly keeping up with the thread and not giving it much thought. It looks like the most likely lynch is volxen at this time so I'lll get more of a look at the FL and auro cases and his responses.

[lionheart1492]

Performer's reads are very safe reads but the way he describes them looks townie enough. He wasn't a lynch candidate today anyway but I would say I lean town on him rn.

Look like lamees and I will be the final votes to hammer volx since we've both announced intent to get a hammer. I don't think we get a ton out of further responses from volx because all he's really done all game. Also if the lynching wagon on volxen is auro, FL, Performer, lamees and myself I think there's a decent chance (>60%) that it's 5 town lynching, based on reads, and that increases my opinion of the lynch. If anyone wants to say something they should do so soon because I vote in 2 hours at the latest.

If volx flips town it's incredibly likely scum is somewhere in this group of 5. If volxen flips scum I think ariane is almost the towniest person in the game because she's the other vote on FL and there's just no way in my mind the scumteam bands together on an impossible D1 lynch down the stretch when a lot of people are already skeptical of them both.

[lionheart1492]

Lamees' attitude of "nm is scum but if nm is scum then we probably just lose lol" confuses me, (#336 and #449) in both posts she unequivocally states that nm is her top scumread but isn't voting him for no real reason. At best this is defeatist town and at worst this is scum trying to escape the spotlight after the auro wagon fell apart. The thing I give her credit for is that while there was a lot of talk of lynching in the auro wagon she defended snowbeast and didn't push volx. This is clear town intent because it's looking for a good lynch instead of an easy lynch. Wouldn't lynch here.

The last person on the auro wagon is snowbeast so let me read him real quick and see if I'm willing to vote that. I will say right now that there's no way we consider the "3 mafia" comment a legitimate townslip because it's so easily coachable.

I'd rather lynch on the auro wagon than off of it but if we lynch off the wagon I think it's between performer and ariane. Probably ariane because performer is giving some good vibes (with prep time and very little pressure on him so it's not a solid read). Will give my priority between snowbeast and ariane asap.

[lionheart1492]

Also would like some reactions from people regarding this lynching duo. Do you think there are other realistic lynches besides snowbeast and ariane? If so, who and how? If not, which do you prefer out of those two? If you're on and you have your vote on anyone else at this point you're just not helping town. Let's get this lynch.

[lionheart1492]

Reading both ISO’s it really feels to me like snow is trying to oversell the noob!town thing with posts like “yeah but if I out reads scum will try to kill me” which came after everyone else in the game is clearly serious about scumhunting. The whole iso really has nothing until he hops on the auro wagon Doesn’t feel like noob!town to me personally.

VOTE: snowbeast

I’m still of the opinion that there was scum on the auro wagon. I don’t think it’s fl and Volxen is certified not scum atm. I think I’ve talked about lamees more than anyone else in the game so my opinion on her should be clear. That leaves snowbeast and I don’t like his iso. Easy lynch.

[lionheart1492]

The scumteam is actually auro and lamees and they're just bussing each other all game to mess with us.

[lionheart1492]

Btw auro I'm looking for an avatar but I can't find things int he pixel restriction for some reason.

I will say that if snow claims and it sets up a 1v1 with volx I prefer lynching snow because I can actually see volx's play as pr trying to avoid the spotlight and getting annoyed when everyone keeps on pulling him into the spotlight.

[lionheart1492]

isn't that hammer? are we allowed to continue posting after the hammer vote?

[lionheart1492]

isn't that hammer? are we allowed to continue posting after the hammer vote?

Damnit, so he's town?

auro fake townslip oof.

[lionheart1492]

realistically nk is volxen because doctor will go for a gambit and protect flavor leaf instead.

[lionheart1492]

I think there's a high chance we see ourselves down myself, volxen or flavor leaf tomorrow. Me because I pointed out the scum team's master plan (also because no one has voted me at any point in this game iirc), fl because he keeps on talking about how he's going to be a NK target and eventually the mafia have to believe it's the right choice, or volxen because he's claimed trucker and town doctors are always bad at mafia no matter who they are (in my limited experience).

Kind of sad that volxen has all but flaked after his claim (he could be busy with the holiday weekend tho no flame) but things could be worse. I think we have a good shot at lynching scum tomorrow if snow flips green but he'll flip red so I'll probably lurk a little bit to get my bearings and try to decide who his partner is before voting (also it will be monday and I am always busy on monday).

[lionheart1492]

snowbeast

: Auro, lionheart1492, Performer, Not_Mafia, Flavor Leaf

Flavor Leaf (L-3)

: Ariane, volxen

Auro (L-4)

: snowbeast

Lamees

@lion you make posts like that so they for sure not killing you lol

so it's working

I'm unsure about this profile pic but I'm gonna leave it for now. Kind of made me laugh so it earned it's spot.

[lionheart1492]

VOTE: Volxen

Auro night kill makes sense for volxen and volxen has just not played like a vanilla townie. Don’t think there’s any chance a different person I want to lynch more arises.

[lionheart1492]

It was looking like Ariane was the most likely lynch so I'm confused by her death. Will read more into performer and FL because I'm pretty certain that both NM and Lamees are town.

[lionheart1492]

That reading will happen in about 6 hours when I'm out of class.

[lionheart1492]

I would say I'm confident that performer is town because of his day 2 play. Doesn't seem like something scum would do at all. I'm skeptical of what's going on in this game because if lamees or FL are the scum then both scum hopped on that auro wagon D1. I think if both mafia are on that auro wagon it's more likely to be lamees than FL and the Auro NK also makes a whole lot of sense for Lamees with the Ariane kill there to throw shade on the person she's been trying to lynch. Down to lynch lamees today after thinking it through some more. Lynch priority is probably something like Lamees > FL >Performer >> Not_Mafia. While FL hasn't really done anything scummy I have less reason to townread him then performer and NM at this point.

This post is several hours late because I fell asleep, sorry about that. I am willing to hammer if that's what we want to do.

[lionheart1492]

VOTE: Lamees

Actually I'll just hammer

[lionheart1492]

Also, me making a case like this on Performer, if Performer were town, he could see that this is coming from a town perspective. Not one hundred percent anything, but the idea of it potentially coming from town would be there from a townperformer perspective.

The fact he immediately used it to 1v1 shows a scum mindset, because my case makes sense. Even if I was scum, the case makes sense, so as town, he’d have been able to acknowledge that.

Performer couldn’t see that, because he’s not looking for scum. He’s looking for a mislynch, and this is the play he now has to make to further that wincon. His mislynch path.

This is a very good point that I agree with. Performer 1v1ing fl is pretty scummy imo. He was mentioning suspicion on me for a while now and now he's kind of left that because flavor is casing him? Gonna have to agree with NM on preferring a performer lynch today.

[lionheart1492]

wow this game is pretty dead. Performer's actions in this 1v1 feel more scummy to me and D2 and D3 were pretty lackluster so I'd say today is the most important. However, it does feel relevant to me that first lamees and now performer have pushed FL to the exclusion of all else. Wouldn't say I trust Lamees' judgment but it's still odd to me that FL has been pushing a kind of town leader position all game. Additionally, it feels like FL has been slightly too easy to convince towards wagons, which contradicts the general tone of his posts, since the auro one D1 (not a ton has happened so this may just be small sample size). Will get more thought on this soon.

With finals prep I'm busy af but I'll work on it hopefully today for y'all.

[lionheart1492]

Well this is the way it must be,
VOTE: Performer

[lionheart1492]

damn, I was leaning that way but it was like 55/45 in my head and changing nm's mind didn't seem too possible. gg

[lionheart1492]

@me being overwhelmed. I didn't allocate enough time to playing this game mid-late D1 and kind of fell behind. IRL stuff made it hard to catch up and I ended up just kind of sheeping my townread while making sure I was unlynchable (I don't remember taking a vote this game but FL might have voted me once?). Bad play on my part, sorry to my fellow townies for not doing anything really (I guess I drew volxen out into the open ED1).

I honestly thought NM was town beyond just the auro meta stuff so wp to him.

I'll probably sign up for another newbie game over winter break. Hope to see some of you there!

FL "Lion end it"
Lion "Ok"

Hell yeah this is what we're on.

[lionheart1492]

Also auro and lamees arguing semantics is the most correct way for this postgame to be.