Newbie 1906 | Fractals | Over

[Nikk]

VOTE: Alonzo

They know what they did.

[Nikk]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

I'm sorry what?

You aren't making much sense here.

[Nikk]

VOTE: FormerFish

[Nikk]

Also, did you read the rest of my posts where I expand on that a bit and still not understand, or did you get to the first thing that hurt your head and stop there?

Allowing people to vote without reason opens the door for scum to skate by without having to at least put in the effort of a fake push or reasoning. It gives little benefit to a town player and a bunch to a scum player.

Town start at a information disadvantage. It seems real scummy to not only not want more information out there but to present such info as helpful advice. Unless you think there is a trap vote on page 2?

Also this insulting response is quite unbecoming of a town player as well.

tl;dr you presented advice that is bad at best and scum at worst and have offered no good reason for it.

[Nikk]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

I'm sorry what?

You aren't making much sense here.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i think Formerfish is trying to say that voting while explaining everything isnt necessary, as scum can react accordingly. If you make a joke vote and tell a player it is a joke vote, the player only reacts to it like a joke vote. If you don't, you can get a better idea on the player's allignment based on their reaction. Or something along these lines.

Do you believe this line of reasoning?

[Nikk]

Also, did you read the rest of my posts where I expand on that a bit and still not understand, or did you get to the first thing that hurt your head and stop there?

Allowing people to vote without reason opens the door for scum to skate by without having to at least put in the effort of a fake push or reasoning. It gives little benefit to a town player and a bunch to a scum player.

Town start at a information disadvantage. It seems real scummy to not only not want more information out there but to present such info as helpful advice. Unless you think there is a trap vote on page 2?

Also this insulting response is quite unbecoming of a town player as well.

tl;dr you presented advice that is bad at best and scum at worst and have offered no good reason for it.

It is the very start of the game, i am not sure what are you getting yourself scared over. No one is going to hammer anyone without a proper case either way, and pushing people only helps town to get reads easier.
Looks like a very LAMIST post.
VOTE: nikk

This is true, and it is early, but I'm confused on the context here. Was Fish pushing someone? I just saw some garbage advice being thrown. Am I misunderstanding this?

[Nikk]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

I'm sorry what?

You aren't making much sense here.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i think Formerfish is trying to say that voting while explaining everything isnt necessary, as scum can react accordingly. If you make a joke vote and tell a player it is a joke vote, the player only reacts to it like a joke vote. If you don't, you can get a better idea on the player's allignment based on their reaction. Or something along these lines.

Ding ding ding!

If I tell someone a vote on them is a pressure vote to get them to post more then all they have to do is post and that vote should come off no issue. If the player voting is doing a reaction test then they would have to with hold the intent of the vote to get a reaction from the player being voted.

This is a simple thing to see and understand. If you feel like I'm being pedantic I can treat you with kids gloves. The you in that sentence is in reference to Nikk.

I don't think you are being pedantic just bad at the game.

[Nikk]

TTTT push a wagon to L-1 is interesting, and doing so before reading is very much so.

Anyway, check the late adds to the wagon when I flip blue, yada yada so on and so forth. T seems to vrgetting away with jumping on without real reason, the exact thing I was against in my post.

[Nikk]

I hate posting on my phone. So many typos.

[Nikk]

VOTE: Alonzo

They know what they did.

VOTE: Alonzo

They know what they did.

They do??

What was this about?

Anyway, check the late adds to the wagon when I flip blue, yada yada so on and so forth. T seems to vrgetting away with jumping on without real reason, the exact thing I was against in my post.

do you think anybody on your wagon gave a real reason?
who?

[Nikk]

Dang getting used to the site, sorry.

1) What is the abbreviation used for early votes without any meaning or reason? That.

2) No, however late adds on a nothing wagon are always more shady than early adds wouldn't you agree? What about me makes you want to put me at L-1?

[Nikk]

What about me makes you want to put me at L-1?

Reasons

Oh how very coy of you.
Whenever you feel like actually playing the game that question will be there for you.

What is the abbreviation used for early votes without any meaning or reason? That.

RVS
Random Voting Stage

Thanks!

[Nikk]

Whenever you feel like actually playing the game that question will be there for you.

I'll answer it now (sort of):

This is a game of information
Scum starts with an information advantage
Town starts with a time advantage (manifested by their larger team)
Town wins if they gain equity in information before they lose their time advantage
Town only wins if they gain information (or get lucky)

When I am town everything I write serves one of three purposes:
1) To gain information
2) To lynch scum based on my best interpretation of that information
3) Lulz

Putting you at L-1 satisfies two of these requirements

What do you learn from me that you dont learn from anyone else?

[Nikk]

What do you learn from me that you dont learn from anyone else?

You still don't understand but that's not really your fault

This act grates.

Let me allow you to play instead of hiding by tunneling me.

Thoughts on Alfonzo, Yellow and Fish? I'll give mine should you give yours. Since you are so keen on info.

[Nikk]

I'm not tunneling you Nikk. It's page 5.

You picked three interesting choices for my reads. I'll answer then I want to know why you asked about those three.

very minor scumleans on:
yellow
formerfish

Alfonzo looks townish

it's super early so these are very very weak reads

Fish Nuetral
Alonzo Townlead

Yellow big ol honkin scum read.

He appears to be trying to get townpoints by preventing my lynch.

Same about early and being weak reads. Especially with how aggressive in nature people are here. I'm used to a touch more civility haha.

[Nikk]

curious... why'd you ask about Fish?

i get you asking about yellow and Alonzo

To not make it obvious what I really wanted to know.

[Nikk]

VOTE: YellowSnow

The immediate unvote kind of makes me feel much more confident in this.

[Nikk]

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

My scumleans aren't based on votes on me, so no.

[Nikk]

I still don't trust Nikk at all.

I would expect FF to open high aggro

as either alignment.

I really try not to most times. Its just always something you know?

I mean you weren't hyper agro apart from slamming me for being new. Especially with the perspective of seeing TTTT in action.

If Yellow isn't scum at this point than I don't even know.

[Nikk]

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

My scumleans aren't based on votes on me, so no.

I know you are reaction testing me which is fine, and I'm pretty sure you are town, but sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war and I'm not willing to lose the war over you.

I didn't say it was that strong. But like I said, either he seems really transparent and willing to defend his arguments for day 1 or maybe he just doesn't like being defended/buddied. Either way it seems like a town reaction to me.

So you were pretty sure I'm town but that's not a strong town lean?

[Nikk]

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

My scumleans aren't based on votes on me, so no.

I know you are reaction testing me which is fine, and I'm pretty sure you are town, but sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war and I'm not willing to lose the war over you.

I didn't say it was that strong. But like I said, either he seems really transparent and willing to defend his arguments for day 1 or maybe he just doesn't like being defended/buddied. Either way it seems like a town reaction to me.

So you were pretty sure I'm town but that's not a strong town lean?

I try not to overreact on day 1. There's not a lot of information out there.

But enough to give me a full throated defense?

[Nikk]

EBWOP kinda

I see how ugly the quote chains are, I'll try to clean that up going forward.

[Nikk]

Hey Yellow, question

Why did you vote for me in the first place?

[Nikk]

I mean what if I think you are scum but Nikk isn't?

Your perrogative but if you are going to be persueded by an argument as stupid as "player X is scum because he wants towncred" either you are scum or then you are town and then this will be a short victory for scum.

How is such a read 'stupid'? I feel you overextended and went all in defending me and attacking TTTT. As if me being scum wasn't even a possibility. It makes sense for me to do it, I have my role PM. I know I'm town.

There is only one way for you to know I'm town.

[Nikk]

Imma gonna shut up now
and let others get their thoughts in here.

I'll do this as well in order to not monopolize town time as I tend to do.

I would specifically like @child's thoughts on Yelllow.

[Nikk]

Besides, if I was trying to build towncred the path of least reisistance would be to stay on the wagon on the off chance that he is scum. Being the 12th juror isn't the easiest job in the world.

That ... fails my sniff test. My whole theory is that you moved off and defended me assuming I would still hang (either due to my time on this site or whatever reason). This doesn't really solve that.

Although tbf there is little you can say to defend against this.

[Nikk]

Besides, if I was trying to build towncred the path of least reisistance would be to stay on the wagon on the off chance that he is scum. Being the 12th juror isn't the easiest job in the world.

That ... fails my sniff test. My whole theory is that you moved off and defended me assuming I would still hang (either due to my time on this site or whatever reason). This doesn't really solve that.

Although tbf there is little you can say to defend against this.

That's because there was no case to begin with, which is why I dropped the fight. It was a no win scenario.

No defense != no case

And your initial response was real bad.

[Nikk]

VOTE: GrandWazoo

I find planting one's flag on a low activity slot to be pretty useless in actually getting them to change. If they're inactive enough the mod will deal with it and if they are around but not being useful then it's time to start asking prodding questions. Planting the flag and nothing more is just an easy under the radar push to make that sounds way more town than it is.

GrandWazoo expressed at least a small scum read on Yellow as TTTT was forming his push. I think GrandWazoo jumps in on that wagon if he's town and truly believes the push. As scum he's content to hang out on the low activity player's wagon.

Predit: ehh. I guess the same applies to you alonzo. What are you hoping to gain from that wagon?

@yellow, TTTT and child

Thoughts on this post?

[Nikk]

Responding bad =/ scum
being frustrated over bad accusations is a thing.

/nod

[Nikk]

Because it's another baseless accusation. I'm a newbie who's been posting a lot so obviously there's a thousand things you could pick at if you really wanted to.

Okay, then why do you ask to have no pity saves when someone calls you a newbie but then say that you are a newbie as a defense the moment someone calls you out?
You are not acting like a newbie at all, in my opinion. Sure, you make a few logical mistakes from time to time, but it's not on the level on some people i've played with. Stop pretendig to be clueless.

I'm never said I was clueless. Being a newb has a certain stigma to it that other players sometiimes jump on, for better or worse. I don't want to be saved from a day one lynch just to be lynched on day two, and being new also makes you, as I said, low hanging fruit because lots of people think newbies are a liability, or for scum, easy to lynch. I'm not the one who asked about my experience or who continues to label me things. Observing how other people react to new players is not "pretending to be clueless," it's observing the reality of the situation. And any logical mistakes I've made pale in comparison to the mistakes made against me. Pretty much all the proverbial crap to the wall to see what sticks has been thrown at me today and not anyone else for some reason.

What logical mistakes have been made against you? Please elaborate on this point.

[Nikk]

Woah I must've missed the struggling with clear thinking piece!

While I have you who is scummier micc or Child?

[Nikk]

VOTE: GrandWazoo

I find planting one's flag on a low activity slot to be pretty useless in actually getting them to change. If they're inactive enough the mod will deal with it and if they are around but not being useful then it's time to start asking prodding questions. Planting the flag and nothing more is just an easy under the radar push to make that sounds way more town than it is.

GrandWazoo expressed at least a small scum read on Yellow as TTTT was forming his push. I think GrandWazoo jumps in on that wagon if he's town and truly believes the push. As scum he's content to hang out on the low activity player's wagon.

Predit: ehh. I guess the same applies to you alonzo. What are you hoping to gain from that wagon?

@yellow, TTTT and child

Thoughts on this post?

Do YOU have any thoughts Nikk in light of the fact that TTTT has now jumped off the wagon I was supposed to jump onto?

Yes.

[Nikk]

VOTE: GrandWazoo

I find planting one's flag on a low activity slot to be pretty useless in actually getting them to change. If they're inactive enough the mod will deal with it and if they are around but not being useful then it's time to start asking prodding questions. Planting the flag and nothing more is just an easy under the radar push to make that sounds way more town than it is.

GrandWazoo expressed at least a small scum read on Yellow as TTTT was forming his push. I think GrandWazoo jumps in on that wagon if he's town and truly believes the push. As scum he's content to hang out on the low activity player's wagon.

Predit: ehh. I guess the same applies to you alonzo. What are you hoping to gain from that wagon?

@yellow, TTTT and child

Thoughts on this post?

Do YOU have any thoughts Nikk in light of the fact that TTTT has now jumped off the wagon I was supposed to jump onto?

Yes.

I'll take that as a no.

Do you still think yellow is scum. You're still voting him.

Yes, I do. I also find it interesting when a change of play occured.

[Nikk]

I also find it interesting when a change of play occured.

If I'm picking up what you are putting down then my reread should be able interesting.

I can't identify a clear line of demarcation myself

241

[Nikk]

VOTE: flippy
Lurker vote l1

You should have waited for your help before making this post

[Nikk]

I hate this push. Emporer's post above is likely not enough to stop the prod and it feels like a lazy lynch.

Why am I wrong here?

[Nikk]

You’re not wrong. That’s what I’ve been saying and why I’m voting Grandwazoo. Feel free to join.

Nah that's cool.

I get the feeling you have Townlean on Yellow (if you've outright said as much I blame me being tired). Is that accurate?

[Nikk]

Nikk is looking for towncred.

Elaborate please.

[Nikk]

There’s a scum chat?

I thought I did & for my other game I did to but didn’t see anything like that

someone plz hammer this scum

I'll declare intent here.

I do want to give time for them to catch up and at least give us something. Time limit 8 hours sound like enough?

[Nikk]

I'd say drop it now...
but I'm impatient
you should really wait until everyone on the wagon has a chance to unvote and/or chime in
bc it's still kinda early

Here's where I will use the Newbie format:

Is this a common courtesy on this site?

[Nikk]

I'd say drop it now...
but I'm impatient
you should really wait until everyone on the wagon has a chance to unvote and/or chime in
bc it's still kinda early

Here's where I will use the Newbie format:

Is this a common courtesy on this site?

Yes. Common procedure (especially for day 1) is:

Player goes to l-1.
Someone gives intent to hammer.
Player claims.
People react to claims.
Wagon either dissolves or is hammered.

Note that this process is much more effective over a day or two than an hour or two. That appies in the case of quick hammers and deadline lynches.

Thanks!

[Nikk]

Ugh I was going to Alonzo.

Declaring intent

[Nikk]

Timeframe of 24 hours

[Nikk]

I'm here, have read and comprehended most of it. I am going to be honest, I space out after while of back and forth other people are having that isnt related to me at all in an immediate sense. I am going to take a look at some isos now. Anyone on?

Ill be about if needed

[Nikk]

Um, okay then.

[Nikk]

That's not anger, just actual confusion about what the protocol is on this. Never played with this wrinkle.

[Nikk]

That's not anger, just actual confusion about what the protocol is on this. Never played with this wrinkle.

what do you mean by wrinkle?

I'd like to know this too!
I'm guessing auto correct fail of wincon?

The wait on hammer thing is what I meant there. I had been asking questions and clarifications on it the page earlier so I didnt think I needed to elaborate.

[Nikk]

VOTE: child
L 1

Oh.

Let's all vote for a quick night.

My.

Assuming the game isn't over.

Goodness.

[Nikk]

Okay.

So Child has been a Scum Read. I'm announcing intent to hammer here I suppose.

Timeframe again 24 hours because it's super early.

Let's chat.

[Nikk]

Okay.

So Child has been a Scum Read. I'm announcing intent to hammer here I suppose.

Timeframe again 24 hours because it's super early.

Let's chat.

dude.
do you SR child?

Is SR not scum read?

[Nikk]

yeah...
you said "Child has been a Scum Read"
that passive voice sounds like you mean scum read by others
not that you scum read Child

You are correct, my bad.

I have Child as SR since day 1

[Nikk]

Thoughts on TTTT Child?

[Nikk]

Okay.

So Child has been a Scum Read. I'm announcing intent to hammer here I suppose.

Timeframe again 24 hours because it's super early.

Let's chat.

So my hammer is about 7 hrs away here.

[Nikk]

Hahaha just kidding then.

Blame it on it being my first post after waking up.

[Nikk]

Hahaha just kidding then.

Blame it on it being my first post after waking up.

You can still vote me if you want to, it just means someone else will have to hammer.

Currently looking through alonzo's profile, found the game where he was scum, and just looking at the scum chat makes me think there was not much effort to really save the mafia buddy from getting lynched, which would sort of confirm my theory. Will need to read the entire game though, i've only read a few pages of the ending previously, and the mafia chat. Currently reading page 2.

Okay I reread through, after mistaking the vote count I wanted to make sure I wasn't mistaking anything else, you know?

Child, these last few pages have been helpful, but you are still second on my list.

Sadly, the new top of my list is on vacation and it feels messed up to start building a train while they are out.

And Yellow is just Yellow. I feel like they get their own category.

[Nikk]

1887 is a more rounded example of me as part of a Mafia team.
My last game both my scum buddies only signed in about once every 3 days and gave me the bare minimum of cover.
That's also how I knew Flippynips wasn't comfortable posting here, having seen him town in that game there was a marked difference in his input.
Ask yourself.. Would I bus my my partner, lose the game, then come straight out in the next and lynch my buddy day one without a claim?

This seems WIFOM. Counterpoint: would you trust a flailing noobscum not to out you in some way and through that distrust acted?

[Nikk]

Tldr yes, I wouldn't play in this queue if I had no faith in New players. And I play here to help new players develop (hopefully they feel that way!)

I 'd feel more developed if you just admitted you were scum

[Nikk]

Wait are we all in agreement on a prime suspect?

[Nikk]

Newbie question -

Are conditional actions a part of the game here?

[Nikk]

When player A returns from vacation I will vote: player A

[Nikk]

If you mean like that will happen automatic
then no
you have to be here to make a vote

Good. It changes the game and not for the better. Just wanted to ensure I wasn't leaving a potential tool unused.

If you were intending to hammer Child on the last page, why do you seem to be moving on just bc he isn't at L-1 anymore?

I was reminding of my intent to hammer to drum up others convo.

I think someone else is scum more.

[Nikk]

This reads as scum giving up here.

[Nikk]

GG thanks for modding and helping me acclimate to a new area.

[Nikk]

Sooo... I still have confusion on calling hammer and how it works, but as I'm at work I can't really post too much on it. Long story short...

Why is it there are sometimes timeframes and sometimes people just cut in line? Seems counterproductive.

[Nikk]

Sooo... I still have confusion on calling hammer and how it works, but as I'm at work I can't really post too much on it. Long story short...

Why is it there are sometimes timeframes and sometimes people just cut in line? Seems counterproductive.

This game wasn’t a good example of how the process usually goes down. In general you can expect the person to claim when they go to L-1 or when someone declares that they intend to hammer. From there people either jump off or the hammer happens. When a timeframe is given that’s usually just an indication of how long the L-1 player is being given to respond before they are hammered regardless of their lack of claim. Note that hammering without a claim is extremely dangerous as hitting a town PR is nearly impossible to come back from. Many players will pursue policy lynches against players who unexpectedly hammer without a claim.

The process tends to fall apart in the game’s later stages. For example no one felt the need to wait for me to claim since all the PR slots were accounted for.

I hope that explination helps.

Thanks!

I think I was misinterpreting the timeframe as a deadline until the hammer fell for all to weigh in , not a deadline to respond. Makes sense now.

[Nikk]

I am also very not used to these extended timeframes. Was my posting style a hinderence to town discussion by sometimes flooding the thread? Was it good? With the super long days it's hard to tell. I am used to playing 48/24 or 24/0 day/night phases.