Newbie 1906 | Fractals | Over

[Formerfish]

VOTE: FormerFish

A private dancer

Dancer for money

OMGUS VOTE: Lonzo he's too cheeky.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Formerfish

Because wagon.

Tisk, tisk. You should know better by now.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: micc
My wagon is better.

One vote a wagon does not make. Why not vote with them and put pressure on me?

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Alonzo

They know what they did.

Wait... thats my line?!?

[Formerfish]

When did FF start using the word cheeky??

Thats a nod to you brother. Just wait til I call someone a complete muppet.

[Formerfish]

When did FF start using the word cheeky??

Thats a nod to you brother. Just wait til I call someone a complete muppet.

Ooof was that one of mine?

Well...Im sure they deserved it..

Don't worry thats not from you, I watch a lot of motorcycle videos out of GB for some reason and they call people muppets all the time, it kinda stuck with me. I feel better calling people that name in place of others.

[Formerfish]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

[Formerfish]

@ff you don't think you should be expected to explain your votes?

If you think someone is scum, yes.

If you are putting pressure on someone by voting them, does that pressure still apply when they know its a pressure vote?

[Formerfish]

The correct answer is anything you do in the game may require explanation.

That's kinda what I said. I'm not sure I understand your attempt at making a distiction there between the two.

Of course our motivations are going to be important when trying to sort us, but if I gave you a line by line look I to how I am going to judge you then you have a play book on how to avoid detection.

Sometimes we need to play with our cards closer to our vests until the right time to out that shit and hang some scum.

Also please note that in the future when trying to empart sage like knowledge, maybe skip that guy with the SE next to his name, the 2013 join date, and the multiple dozens of games played on this site alone. Kthx.

[Formerfish]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

I'm sorry what?

You aren't making much sense here.

You'll have to point out what is unclear to you for me to be able to try and explain it better.

[Formerfish]

Also, did you read the rest of my posts where I expand on that a bit and still not understand, or did you get to the first thing that hurt your head and stop there?

[Formerfish]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

I'm sorry what?

You aren't making much sense here.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i think Formerfish is trying to say that voting while explaining everything isnt necessary, as scum can react accordingly. If you make a joke vote and tell a player it is a joke vote, the player only reacts to it like a joke vote. If you don't, you can get a better idea on the player's allignment based on their reaction. Or something along these lines.

Ding ding ding!

If I tell someone a vote on them is a pressure vote to get them to post more then all they have to do is post and that vote should come off no issue. If the player voting is doing a reaction test then they would have to with hold the intent of the vote to get a reaction from the player being voted.

This is a simple thing to see and understand. If you feel like I'm being pedantic I can treat you with kids gloves. The you in that sentence is in reference to Nikk.

[Formerfish]

My record would say otherwise. Also, most people I play with.

[Formerfish]

Your previous record only gets you so far.

This isn't poker. Town should be more transparent. Scum are expected not to be.

My record shows that im not a shit player.

You guys are reading way to into me saying that sometimes not explaining your vote when you make it is ok. Transparency is fine when you are actually casing someone and pushing them. RVS votes dont usually need to be explained. Pressure votes shouldnt be explained right away. What is hard to understand about what I am saying?

[Formerfish]

If you are trying to get action...
why would you start at square 1 with that hot girl who doesn't know you exist
when your ugly cousin already has the hots for you?

probably not the ideal metaphor

I like you. I dont know if youre town yet, but i like you.

[Formerfish]

Well then.

I'm not going to play the WIFOM game.

unvote

.

Still think TTTT is scum and Nikk is town but it's not worth dying over this early.

Are you unvoting because he put his vote on you? If you think he is scum then your vote should be on him and you should force that to come to a head. Peeling off of this game of chicken before the scarf even hit the ground is a bit weak.

[Formerfish]

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

Can I get this post annotated? I got lost trying to parse out what was actually being said about who here.

[Formerfish]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77614

check FF in the scumchat here, this sort of thing is his bag baby...

Thats fair.

[Formerfish]

I still don't trust Nikk at all.

I would expect FF to open high aggro

as either alignment.

I really try not to most times. Its just always something you know?

[Formerfish]

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

Can I get this post annotated? I got lost trying to parse out what was actually being said about who here.

I'll do my best...

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

I originally voted TTTT because I wanted to defend Nikk after TTTT's vote put him at L-1. But then Nikk voted for me! So why should I keep defending Nikk by voting for TTTT.

I think that's generally the idea.

Thank you, i didnt have enough space on my whiteboard to get all the way to the end of that proof.

So Yellow thought it was scummy of T's to put NIkk at l-1 and voted there, and T's point is that he wanted to see who would hop off of the Nikk wagon and not only did Yellow do that but he did so by attacking the guy attacking the guy he was just voting?

[Formerfish]

No there are just bigger fish to fry.

Who?

I'm working on it. But if Nikk thinks tttt is town enough to vote me for it I'll piggyback Nikk for now.

[Formerfish]

How is attacking someone you were voting wrong?

If you have 4 pencils and I have 7 apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof?

Purple, because aliens dont wear hats.

[Formerfish]

Long day. I'll be here tomorrow. I think I saw the last player we were waiting in come active so there should be enough for me to dive into when I get back.

Ttttttttttt I will look at yellows iso first tomorrow. If you are at an impasse that would imply you have both scum locked down, yes?

[Formerfish]

I also find it interesting when a change of play occured.

If I'm picking up what you are putting down then my reread should be able interesting.

[Formerfish]

I also find it interesting when a change of play occured.

If I'm picking up what you are putting down then my reread should be

able

interesting.

Ebwop

[Formerfish]

Unvote

Place your vote Down Nikk and il play Ceasar

why does this matter?

That might be for me. I'll explain after he does.

[Formerfish]

I'm here, have read and comprehended most of it. I am going to be honest, I space out after while of back and forth other people are having that isnt related to me at all in an immediate sense. I am going to take a look at some isos now. Anyone on?

[Formerfish]

I wouldnt stop a nip lynch. Iso is bare, worse than that old ladies cupboard. Then the disappearance after saying he was halfway through catching up is suspect as hell.

I feel like a nip scum flip would also help sort some of the newbies.

[Formerfish]

strongest read and why?

TTTT as town. Its hard to pull off what he has as scum, the amount of posting that is. And quantity isnt everything, but I think that theres a good amount of quality posts in that amount on content as well. I see a person playing the game in a way that moves it forward and done as a means to gather info. Scum doesnt need to do that and would have more of an agenda in place.

[Formerfish]

strongest read and why?

TTTT as town. Its hard to pull off what he has as scum, the amount of posting that is. And quantity isnt everything, but I think that theres a good amount of quality posts in that amount on content as well. I see a person playing the game in a way that moves it forward and done as a means to gather info. Scum doesnt need to do that and would have more of an agenda in place.

We are on the same page there although that feels like the easy one. I'll go next.

Flippynips as scum. I'm taking 346 as a scum claim. There's no reason for that to be his only comment about the first seven pages if he's town. There's especially no reason for him to disappear once people start pressuring him about it if he's town. I think that post was his attempt at making a "townslip" to get him off the hot seat quickly and easily.

I feel like that was is just as easy, especially considering i said about the same above.

[Formerfish]

On the count of 3 we say our reads on Nikk, no explanation yet, just gut read.

[Formerfish]

Yeah, same. Something rubbed me wrong at first, but I think that was more a me thing than a him thing if that makes sense.

[Formerfish]

I can hammer.

[Formerfish]

Why child then? Not saying I disagree with you. I did an iso dive really qiuck into him after your vote. I want to see if we are seeing the same thing.

[Formerfish]

FFFish -
you and Micc had some rapport going on day1
I'm guessing there's some familiarity there
how well can you read each other?

He's modded a lot of newbie games I've been in lately. He's probably more able to read me than I am able to him.

[Formerfish]

I feel like a nip scum flip would also help sort some of the newbies.

Now that it’s happened can you expand on this thought?

It's not well fleshed out yet, but I feel like with Nippy flipping scum means that the chances of the other scummer being a vet is slim. I could be wrong here, but I feel like a vet would have been able to give some advice and help Nip out on day 1.

[Formerfish]

I feel like a nip scum flip would also help sort some of the newbies.

Now that it’s happened can you expand on this thought?

It's not well fleshed out yet, but I feel like with Nippy flipping scum means that the chances of the other scummer being a vet is slim. I could be wrong here, but I feel like a vet would have been able to give some advice and help Nip out on day 1.

Nip's problem is inactivity though, is it really something an experienced player can save?

Sort answer, yeah.

As scum I use the PT to dump everything I'm thinking, especially with a newbie as my partner. I would feel like, more so with Nips being the scum PR, that as the non pr scum it would have been up to me to protect Nips from a Lynch. Yes he was inactive, but with me as his partner he wouldn't have been. I think the same goes for most of the vets. We know how to carry teammates and make deep runs, part of that is knowing what you are doing and where you want to be going.

And an aside- looking at who the NK was suspect of is sketchy at best. I know that when I'm scum my NKs are strategic as hell, and would probably focus on the people who can read me better (this is if I were scum of course) like Lonzo or Micc.

One last thing. Mic have you modded a scum game from me?

[Formerfish]

explain the NK from newbscum perspective

After an iso dive the only thing that makes sense to me is that someone might have picked something up tell wise when Grand was asking about set ups and shit at the beginning of the game. VTs just don't ask those kinds of questions, PRs do though.

That's the only thing that makes sense with me, lonzo and micc still alive today.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: micc
My wagon is better.

VOTE: child

Cos I like to start my own wagon

This was the first thing that pinged me. I know it's a stretch, but the way that these posts almost mimic each other's flow and style made me feel like these were linked. Especially when Nips votes child, and then fucking winks at him man... Like the child vote could just be a cheeky AF greeting to his partner in thread.

[Formerfish]

Let's all vote for a quick night.

Let's not do that? that's an incredibly scummy post.
VOTE: yellowsnow

This post was just awkward and cringe worthy. Why does yellow deserve to auto die for saying let's have a quick night? Seems over the top and fake to me, like child's just jumping on "scummy" behavior.

[Formerfish]

Flippy has been extremely useless, 4 posts and none of them contribute much at all. A great candidate for pressure, because inactivity is NAI but an easy mislynch for mafia.

Biggest thing for me is that I'm pretty sure this is the only time child even talks about Nips, and it was buried in a spoliered catch-up. As active as child has been, it makes no sense that he would basically ignore a guy scumming the thread up. Not even a mention about Nips saying he was gonna catch up and ghosting.

[Formerfish]

so what you are saying FF, it is beetween me, yellowsnow and nikk?

Negative. I'm saying if I were the remaining scum I would have killed someone more dangerous to me personally.

I looked for crumbs to see if scum caught something I missed, but came up without much evidence. Like I said the only thing I can figure is they got lucky, or they read into grands set up spec as a PR trying to understand their role in the game.

I would think that vet scum would have done more to stop the D1 lynch of their only PR.

[Formerfish]

For someone who was acting "very suspicious" you have a distinct lack of content directed towards them. Almost like you knew what the outcome would be so you avoid even looking in that direction for the most part.

[Formerfish]

I think Micc is mis-repping some here
but I'm worried he maybe isn't paying attention due to semi-VLA
also wanna hear more from FFFFFFish

I'm around, what do you wanna talk about?

[Formerfish]

It's Christmas Eve and I don't want this game to drag due to inactivity over the next week
and I like my TRs
so no more games hoping scum doesn't kill me tonight and I never get to reveal my inno

I am the Tracker.
I tracked Alonzo last night and he didn't go anywhere.

So now we have two conftown
and five lynch candidates
if we mislynch today then day4 you have still have Alonzo as conftown

let's lynch Micc today

VOTE: Micc L-2

Why does this clear Lonzo?

[Formerfish]

I'm an idiot. I forgot we lynched scum. I was thinking they had the ability to do both actions, but I'm stupid.

[Formerfish]

DERP XD

My short term memory is bad sometimes and I honestly forgot we lynched scum on day 1. I thought I had something on TTTTTTTTTTT for clearing you and now I just feel dumb.

I don't like how micc says this is scum me. This is very clearly the me that was town in his games and is town here now. I don't see him pushing me though, just saying I could be scum. Let me iso him to get a better look.

[Formerfish]

I don't see a town child case.

Do you see a scum case for him?

Absence of a town read=/= a scum read.

[Formerfish]

I don't see a town child case.

I don't see a scum case either. I was asked questions, i responded to them. Do you have any questions for me?

Waiting for Micc to get out of V/LA currently.

This is like the second time you've implied that I have to convince you that you're scum. I think the case is way more self explanatory than you think it is.

Can you show where he's implied this? I'm not seeing it. What I'm seeing is someone asking if you have a case on them and you deflecting the question with strawman arguments. If the case was self explanatory than anyone could see it right? I'm not, so lay it out for me ELI5 style.

[Formerfish]

You’re not wrong. That’s what I’ve been saying and why I’m voting Grandwazoo. Feel free to join.

Nah that's cool.

I get the feeling you have Townlean on Yellow (if you've outright said as much I blame me being tired). Is that accurate?

Yellow isn’t really a town lean, more just he’s in my still need to sort pile but low priority. These usually turn into
Town reads eventually but when I make it to lylo this is where the scum is. Still have a lot of work to do to sort FF/Alonzo/flippy and these are much higher priority because they seem more likely to be scum at this point. Im actively scumreading Grandwazoo obviously.

Meta diving to find something else and came across me, lonzo, and flippy as unknowns but likely to be scums in a line up from Micc. Classic move putting a buddy in a list like that.

[Formerfish]

yeah, I’m pretty familiar with FF from modding his games. This is our first time playing against each other. He might be scum here. I’m going to read back for interaction tells but off the top of my head he hits some of the things I’m looking for. Not being early on the wagon and confident enough to make that nightkill choice.

You say you haven't called me scum, but this is about as close as you can get without actually saying the words.

You say you're familiar with my play.
And that I might be scum here.
Off the top of your head I "hit some of the things" you're looking for.

And are those the things you were looking for? Me not being

early

on the wagon and grand being killed. If so you better come with something more. Not being on the wagon is a shit reason. Nips was basically inactive and kept saying he was gonna catch up. Coming up on deadline he just vanished. I was using my vote and my play to try and figure out who the other scum was because there are 2 here. Next you're gonna say that I hesitated to hammer my partner when it was apparent he was going down. I can tell you right now my play with scum partners is nothing like what went down on day 1. You should know better.

And nice try with the night kill analysis. You should know that if I haven't pocketed lonzo as scum he dies here on n1. And honestly, probably you as town after that. Scum either got lucky or they figured that grands talk about setup spec was a slip. Either way they picked correctly and sniped a PR.

This play from you just feels slimy, like I'm getting worked over by a back road discount used car salesman.

[Formerfish]

NK analysis is generally a bad way to find scum
I often think I have it figured out based on the NK
and then I'm wrong

true - that's exactly while i am hesitant to make the push. i do think however that micc discouraging us to make the wagon on flippy is a tad scummy.

Why’s it scummy? Pushing players for not contributing in the early parts of Day 1 is not productive. I’m going to stand by that belief regardless of what the player happened to flip. Calling it scummy here is results oriented thinking.

If pushing inactives is counterproductive why do you use the fact that I wasn't early on the wagon as a slight against me? You've basically described town play as someone who actively hunts within active people, and somehow found me to be scum because I didn't vote sit on inactive scum.

[Formerfish]

The fact that you were the one to post the "come on guys, let's not do anything rash here, we have a PR who needs to claim a result and clear someone" post (which came here:

It's Christmas Eve and I don't want this game to drag due to inactivity over the next week
and I like my TRs
so no more games hoping scum doesn't kill me tonight and I never get to reveal my inno

I am the Tracker.
I tracked Alonzo last night and he didn't go anywhere.

So now we have two conftown
and five lynch candidates
if we mislynch today then day4 you have still have Alonzo as conftown

let's lynch Micc today

VOTE: Micc L-2

)

VOTE: Alonzo

I just reread end of day 1 and his dance from being on the wagon to wanting the hammer to resisting from lolhammering, to lolhammering anyway feels like distancing that went wrong and turned into a bus. He also keeps voting me without saying anything and I don’t know why he thinks that would be productive.

It seemed weird for you to call that out and then make this post, where you quickly vote someone for little reasoning whatsoever.

If I misrepping here it’s cause I’m trying to solve this game with 15 minutes a day worth of trying to keep up on my phone. Also my point here is that even active lurkers aren’t worth pushing in the first half of day 1. Spend that precious time solving the 90% of players who are available. At some point your active lurker is going to get replaced or make some posts and that’s when you jump in with pressure like we did this game.

UNVOTE:

This post is the kinda of AtE that I don't care for. "If I'm playing poorly and manipulatively it's because I'm not reading everything closely and I'm missing things."

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Micc

Choo-choo!

[Formerfish]

Micc you still have like 12 hours or so
If town make a move plz

He's made his play. Make yours.

[Formerfish]

Why is it there are sometimes timeframes and sometimes people just cut in line? Seems counterproductive.

It depends on how you play the game. The need for almost parliamentary rules regarding hammers is due to people who think that they are above playing on a team.

Giving intent to hammer puts everyone on notice that shit is about to go down. Micc had 24hrs to do something and made a choice not to. We could wait out those 24hrs or we could realize that he made his play and it was time to move forward.

There are some players on site who hammer anyone who gets to l-1 as a way to allow scummy play at later points. Some just lolhammer because they think it's fun. Scum can hammer to prevent town from getting any info out during day end/twilight.

I know that as scum I am Johnny on the spot with making sure the mod knows a Lynch has occured in hopes they lock the thread quickly. Again depriving town the ability to talk as much as possible.

Long story short: if you want to be a better player give intent and allow players to play. If you wanna do your own thing than hammer away. It's all in the game.

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

Yeah this didn’t go well. Not bussing early enough has been a weakness of mine in the past. Here I think my timing was good enough but getting to it from my earlier stances was never going to be natural. Hitting the cop with the nightkill was encouraging but there was still a lot of work to do. Perhaps I could have obv-town’d a little and driven some mislynches with a constant presence, but definitely not while out on vacation. Alonzo being the tracker clear was the nail in the coffin.

Town play this game was strong overall. My hope is to break that down into a review of sorts for each of you, but please know that I’m lazy and historically only bat around .500 on making that happen. If there’s particular things you’d like me to comment on or questions you have let me know and I’ll make sure to address them.

Thanks to Plotinus for a great job moderating. I’m ok for the mafia PT to be released.

Why'd you gun for me?

[Formerfish]

I don't usually participate much in post games. I'm not sure why. I'm here if anyone wants to talk.

[Formerfish]

...bit dissapointing FF didn't rip anyone head off haha =)

I don't play that way on purpose or all the time. Usually I act as a lightening rod for angry scum players. Micc knows better than to approach me in that way because he's modded enough games where I've taken that role on and lynched my way to victory through them.

I like playing like this more, but feel like I have less of a handle on what's going on because I'm on the periphery of things and not directly involved.

[Formerfish]

Good game everyone. I kinda felt like Micc might be scum but I felt like there needed to be an opposing voice in case he wasn't.

That seems like an odd reason to play devil's advocate. Especially when you are so dead set in your opinion of the person you're pushing that you ignore scummy behavior in other players because you've already caught the last scum.

[Formerfish]

Next time you play with him Yellow, tunnel FF. He loves it.

Shut up you muppet.

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

Yeah this didn’t go well. Not bussing early enough has been a weakness of mine in the past. Here I think my timing was good enough but getting to it from my earlier stances was never going to be natural. Hitting the cop with the nightkill was encouraging but there was still a lot of work to do. Perhaps I could have obv-town’d a little and driven some mislynches with a constant presence, but definitely not while out on vacation. Alonzo being the tracker clear was the nail in the coffin.

Town play this game was strong overall. My hope is to break that down into a review of sorts for each of you, but please know that I’m lazy and historically only bat around .500 on making that happen. If there’s particular things you’d like me to comment on or questions you have let me know and I’ll make sure to address them.

Thanks to Plotinus for a great job moderating. I’m ok for the mafia PT to be released.

Why'd you gun for me?

I had to gun for somebody. Alonzo obviously didn't work very well and I wanted to save Child for later when the numbers got tight. The pool of potential targets was just too small.

I was excited to finally play a game with you until I rolled scum.

That's how scum usually feel when they see me in a game