Newbie 1906 | Fractals | Over

[Child]

VOTE: micc
My wagon is better.

[Child]

VOTE: micc
My wagon is better.

One vote a wagon does not make. Why not vote with them and put pressure on me?

One vote is necessary to start the wagon. And as i said previously..

VOTE: micc
My wagon is better.

[Child]

Also, did you read the rest of my posts where I expand on that a bit and still not understand, or did you get to the first thing that hurt your head and stop there?

Allowing people to vote without reason opens the door for scum to skate by without having to at least put in the effort of a fake push or reasoning. It gives little benefit to a town player and a bunch to a scum player.

Town start at a information disadvantage. It seems real scummy to not only not want more information out there but to present such info as helpful advice. Unless you think there is a trap vote on page 2?

Also this insulting response is quite unbecoming of a town player as well.

tl;dr you presented advice that is bad at best and scum at worst and have offered no good reason for it.

It is the very start of the game, i am not sure what are you getting yourself scared over. No one is going to hammer anyone without a proper case either way, and pushing people only helps town to get reads easier.
Looks like a very LAMIST post.
VOTE: nikk

[Child]

Could be you were trying to distract me and still are. Or maybe Alonzo's trying to get me to vote someone on his own wagon. Perhaps both are true.

I'll keep my vote on flippy until he posts something useful.

Votes lose their power when you speak to their intentions.

And you can still hunt among active players while back burnering him until he gets back, there are 2 scumbags in this game...

I'm sorry what?

You aren't making much sense here.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i think Formerfish is trying to say that voting while explaining everything isnt necessary, as scum can react accordingly. If you make a joke vote and tell a player it is a joke vote, the player only reacts to it like a joke vote. If you don't, you can get a better idea on the player's allignment based on their reaction. Or something along these lines.

[Child]

If you are trying to get action...
why would you start at square 1 with that hot girl who doesn't know you exist
when your ugly cousin already has the hots for you?

Sweet Home Alabama

Would you continue to vote for someone to defend someone when the person you're defending is attacking you?

if you think they are town,yes (but voting the opposition isnt good if thats your only reason to vote someone, it makes you look scummy in the process), you should defend them, and defend yourself too. If someone is incorrect, it doesnt mean they are mafia.

Imma gonna shut up now
and let others get their thoughts in here.

I'll do this as well in order to not monopolize town time as I tend to do.

I would specifically like @child's thoughts on Yelllow.

I only skimmed through the topic, but right now gut is leaning on yellow being noobscum. I will try to make a proper read later when i have time to seriously focus and read the topic though

[Child]

Big Wall
1-100

Spoiler:

VOTE: NIKK

VOTE: FormerFish

Dont understand these votes much. Why did you guys vote here?

Stop insulting my kid.

Awfully random but okay, this is just shitpost i assume.

I must admit I'm not comfortable with the "expeerienced" players skill level so far and find myself somewhat agreeing with Nikk. Don't want a quick lynch.

Unvote

There isnt enough for a quicklynch, don't worry about it. If someone actually hammered that i would be very surprised.

It's also the only way to lynch town.

Yes, lynching is indeed the only way to lynch someone. It is truly sad. I get the point you are making, but you being overly cautious like this just makes you look like a person looking for easy towncred.

I mean we already learned so much the first time you were at L-1
why stop now!

Because we actually want to stop scum.

If it's just information you want we can put anyone at L-1.

Vote: TTTT

In that case, why vote TTTT? I could have named off 5 better candidates by that point.

101-180

Spoiler:

Because I go for who I like the best not who is easiest

Doesn't look like the best option to me. If you are defending Nikk right now and want a push from square one, why not vote one of the people who have voted and said nothing about it afterwards? Like Alonzo for example, his vote looked awfully random to me.

lol that wasn't really a game.

I don't want a pity save. Judge me on my merits.

Sounds like a newbscum post. "I am really town guys, im not gonna take any pity wins i want to be townread and safe."

I still don't trust Nikk at all. I would expect FF to open high aggro as either alignment.

Can you say why?

Well then.

I'm not going to play the WIFOM game.

unvote

.

Still think TTTT is scum and Nikk is town but it's not worth dying over this early.

Are you unvoting because he put his vote on you? If you think he is scum then your vote should be on him and you should force that to come to a head. Peeling off of this game of chicken before the scarf even hit the ground is a bit weak.

No there are just bigger fish to fry. His argument that I want towncred is wrong and and this point in the game it's not worth a battle. If you are going to Lynch me Lynch me. I'm not going to defend myself against hyperbole.

Based on personal experiences, lynchbait is a lot more defeatist. What fish are you frying currently, by the way? Who is your next target?

No there are just bigger fish to fry.

Who?

I'm working on it. But if Nikk thinks tttt is town enough to vote me for it I'll piggyback Nikk for now.

Did you pocket yourself this early? please don't.

We need to note who isn't here for this meltdown because if Yellow flips scum
it's pretty clear his partner isn't here
or they'd be screaming at Yellow in scumchat to STFU

Fair point, unless his partner is also a noob. This is like the main reason im hesitant to push yellow harder here.

181-Present

Spoiler:

I didn't say it was that strong. But like I said, either he seems really transparent and willing to defend his arguments for day 1 or maybe he just doesn't like being defended/buddied. Either way it seems like a town reaction to me.

A question to you - Do you think it is justified to try pushing on someone who is pushing on a slight town read that you gained early in the game?

I try not to overreact on day 1. There's not a lot of information out there.

But enough to give me a full throated defense?

Yes. Quicklynching is nearly always bad.

No one is quicklynching anybody. Stop, we know it's bad.

Well if you really think that Nikk and I are scum buddies that strongly go for it but you'll be wrong.

I dont think he would allow you to do all this. It would be too obvious. One of you is scum at worst.

Yeah I'm increasingly of the opinion that Yellow is a flailing newb trying to figure stuff out.

Now would be an awesome time for flippy to start playing this game.

I doubt it. He says he knows what he is doing.

VOTE: GrandWazoo

I find planting one's flag on a low activity slot to be pretty useless in actually getting them to change. If they're inactive enough the mod will deal with it and if they are around but not being useful then it's time to start asking prodding questions. Planting the flag and nothing more is just an easy under the radar push to make that sounds way more town than it is.

GrandWazoo expressed at least a small scum read on Yellow as TTTT was forming his push. I think GrandWazoo jumps in on that wagon if he's town and truly believes the push. As scum he's content to hang out on the low activity player's wagon.

Predit: ehh. I guess the same applies to you alonzo. What are you hoping to gain from that wagon?

I disagree. None of the players currently look like they are getting replaced (you are the only one with a prod as far as i can tell), so we should get opinions from as many people as possible, especially the people who are inactive. Flippy has been extremely useless, 4 posts and none of them contribute much at all. A great candidate for pressure, because inactivity is NAI but an easy mislynch for mafia.

Besides, if I was trying to build towncred the path of least reisistance would be to stay on the wagon on the off chance that he is scum. Being the 12th juror isn't the easiest job in the world.

Good point.

Do we even know if scum has daychat?

Fake townslip or real townslip? What do you guys think?

The responses are all based on the time im reading them, thats why some of the reactions could be outdated.
All i can say is, yellowsnow's latest posts make me think he isn't lynchbait/newbscum. Or atleast he is trying to not be put into this situation. I still have a slight scum read, but it's nothing i want to go for a push or start pressuring over.
Perhaps he got coached? There is a big shift in tone and his responses have gotten a lot better.

Spoiler= is better than spoiler --P

[Child]

Help my post is dying, how do i fix this?

[Child]

Help my post is dying, how do i fix this?

I fixed it for you. In the future, you want to use

Code: Select all

[spoiler=Secret]message[/spoiler]

to make

Spoiler: Secret

message

If you forget the = sign, it makes your post

black

and impossible to read on a phone.

Thank you! I have never encountered this problem before though, and i have been using the regular spoiler. That's interesting.

[Child]

All i can say is, yellowsnow's latest posts make me think he isn't lynchbait/newbscum. Or atleast he is trying to not be put into this situation. I still have a slight scum read, but it's nothing i want to go for a push or start pressuring over.

lynchbait means a player who acts kinda scummy and gets easily lynched as town
newbscum means a player who is new and scum

so we you say you don't think he is "lynchbait/newbscum"
I'm not sure what you mean

Oh, i misunderstood the term "lynchbait" then. I thought lynchbait meant a newbie town who is very lynchable because of his lack of understanding, and therefore he makes mistakes. Ignore that part in that case, then i will be saying there is a solid contrast between his early defense and current defense, and i feel he was coached.

[Child]

I still have a slight scum read, but it's nothing i want to go for a push or start pressuring over.

So can we assume your current vote is a strong scum read than your slight scumread on Yellow?

No, it's a leftover vote. I don't need to vote yellow to get a response from him, i will vote if he says something really scummy to call him out. Voting him after a giant-ass wall isn't something i need to do, as most of the recent posts are decent. Coaching is only a gut feeling of mine, it's not something i want to push him over.
UNVOTE:

[Child]

Because it's another baseless accusation. I'm a newbie who's been posting a lot so obviously there's a thousand things you could pick at if you really wanted to.

Okay, then why do you ask to have no pity saves when someone calls you a newbie but then say that you are a newbie as a defense the moment someone calls you out?
You are not acting like a newbie at all, in my opinion. Sure, you make a few logical mistakes from time to time, but it's not on the level on some people i've played with. Stop pretendig to be clueless.

[Child]

Fence sitting much?

I will vote when i want to do so. People telling me to vote will only make me not vote out of spite.
Ive already stated why i didn't vote you, I townread TTTT and Kazoo, Mikk is an outdated vote, and i dont want to vote on the 4 people who are less active, that just isnt my playstyle. Who do i vote then? Myself?

Because it's another baseless accusation. I'm a newbie who's been posting a lot so obviously there's a thousand things you could pick at if you really wanted to.

Okay, then why do you ask to have no pity saves when someone calls you a newbie but then say that you are a newbie as a defense the moment someone calls you out?
You are not acting like a newbie at all, in my opinion. Sure, you make a few logical mistakes from time to time, but it's not on the level on some people i've played with. Stop pretendig to be clueless.

I'm never said I was clueless. Being a newb has a certain stigma to it that other players sometiimes jump on, for better or worse. I don't want to be saved from a day one lynch just to be lynched on day two, and being new also makes you, as I said, low hanging fruit because lots of people think newbies are a liability, or for scum, easy to lynch. I'm not the one who asked about my experience or who continues to label me things. Observing how other people react to new players is not "pretending to be clueless," it's observing the reality of the situation. And any logical mistakes I've made pale in comparison to the mistakes made against me. Pretty much all the proverbial crap to the wall to see what sticks has been thrown at me today and not anyone else for some reason.

Fair enough then, then if i am wrong, can you look at my wall and tell me how i am wrong? What is incorrect? If something you did is a logical mistake, explain your thought process. I have a slowly growing scumread, and just saying "low-hanging fruit" isn't gonna cut it for me personally. While you are at it, why was everyone who pushed on you less scummy in your opinion?
And you aren't even a liability. You clearly know what you are doing. A liability is someone who sits there and does nothing, like emperor is doing currently. Dont doubt yourself like that.

[Child]

not so much concerned with child's fence sitting as I am his catchup post
new players are prone to fence sitting regardless of alignment

Tell me which parts you dislike, i will explain why i wrote them.

"looking for towncred"
"struggling with clear thinking"
"making logical mistakes"
"meltdown"
"coached"

none of these are true.

Can you explain why everyone is wrong then?

Do we even know if scum has daychat?

This is the townslip, which i doubt is legit if he has read several games prior to this one. I've played a single game here and i already know scum has the daychat avaliable.

I don't like that Child's catchup doesn't have much direction to it.

Yes, i have read through the topic and responded to what seemed important or interesting to me. It's not a push, it's a catchup post. How is it supposed to have much direction?

[Child]

@Child - back in your big wall post (261) you quoted GrandWazzo "Yeah I'm increasingly of the opinion that Yellow is a flailing newb trying to figure stuff out."
and you replied...
"I doubt it. He says he knows what he is doing."
I don't understand what you mean.
are you saying Yellow isn't a flailing newb?
what are you referencing as Yellow saying he knows what he is doing?

oh this? im referencing these posts:

There's room for improvement but the end result is as intended. Get people talking and get some decent reads.

I never said it wasn't a possibility. Maybe I did overextend. But I was in a position to overextend and for me it's a fight worth having. I'm in little danger of being lynched and I think day 1 has progressed faster than it would have otherwise and we have some good town candidates imho

and a few more, most of his posts around 200-220 hint him to not be a flaily noob. Obviously he didn't straight up say that he "knows what he is doing" , but it can be easily understood what he is trying to say.

----

Nikk is looking for towncred.

Where?

[Child]

8 hours is too long. I’ll be checking back in before I go work in 3 and if the catchup doesn’t look promising I’m declaring intent then.

Hold on, weren't you the one most opposed to pushing on people who are inactive?

[Child]

8 hours is too long. I’ll be checking back in before I go work in 3 and if the catchup doesn’t look promising I’m declaring intent then.

Hold on, weren't you the one most opposed to pushing on people who are inactive?

That was before he came in and essentially scum claimed.

Intent to hammer in 24 hours

Fair enough, them dissapearing like that after getting a bit of pressure is very suspicious to me too imo.

[Child]

I don't think scum was on that wagon.

any reason you think so?

[Child]

That's not anger, just actual confusion about what the protocol is on this. Never played with this wrinkle.

what do you mean by wrinkle?

I'd like to know this too!
I'm guessing auto correct fail of wincon?

i think he was roasting TTTT's avatar.

[Child]

I don't think scum was on that wagon.

any reason you think so?

because i think it was a perfect oppurtunity to bus him, especially for mafia, who can proceed to push on those who didnt make the push, in this situation, me.
i do agree my posts have been lackluster, and it is mainly because of my own morals and personality making me not do what is accepatable to you, but if you are pushing me because i did not push on emperor, you are wrong. i did find it strange that emperor dissapeared when he said that he will catch up, and i saw that as scum giving up, but i also found it interesting at the large ammount of people that were ready to lynch him for this single reason. mafia would absolutely bus this for towncred.

[Child]

Let's all vote for a quick night.

Let's not do that? that's an incredibly scummy post.
VOTE: yellowsnow

[Child]

Im torn between Micc and YellowSnow, with wazoo kill on Micc (because wazoo was the only one who seemed to scumread micc, although this kill could have been made on purpose) and yellow due to my personal scumreads. TTTT i think is town, and alonzo jumped on early so i feel it's likely that he is scum than these two, although as far as i remember he just jumped on and didn't say much about it, so alonzo is also a possibility.

[Child]

Im torn between Micc and YellowSnow, with wazoo kill on Micc (because wazoo was the only one who seemed to scumread micc, although this kill could have been made on purpose) and yellow due to my personal scumreads. TTTT i think is town, and alonzo jumped on early so i feel it's

less

likely that he is scum than these two, although as far as i remember he just jumped on and didn't say much about it, so alonzo is also a possibility.

edit

[Child]

Emp's lynch was not inevitable until Micc dropped that L-1 vote
Micc is likely to have been able to save Emp if they were partners in that situation
if that was Micc busing it seemed like an unecessary gamble

really? a lot of people were ready to lynch emp. i don't think micc would have been able to salvage it, and trying to actually save him would be unecesarry given how he was not helping his case very much. even if he could go for CFD he could face backlash later.

[Child]

Why child then? Not saying I disagree with you. I did an iso dive really qiuck into him after your vote. I want to see if we are seeing the same thing.

53 - useless post that looks like he's trying to be appear involved in the game

Well, i was trying to join in on the conversation here.

219 - this post is gross -- advice to the player he is scumreading, and a claim that he can't give reads beyond his gut read on Yellow bc he only "skimmed" the thread (even thought he's quoting posts 101-210)

Are you not supposed to help players get better? This is a Newbie game, im not sure what you are on about. We should all help each other, scumreads or not, if you are one of these players who are very rude to your scumreads you should tell me because im going to try to avoid you.
I did not go deep into reading the thread, as you can clearly see by looking through my IsO i followed it up with more posts afterward. I cannot make a decent read on someone unless im IsO'ing or taking a decent hour to carefully and slowly read all the posts.

261 - his big wall catch-up post -- I really hate this one. Child quotes and replies to quite a lot of inconsequential posts. There is really nothing in here that shows he is trying to determine alignments of other players. he's really just copying what others have already said-- looks like he's trying to fit in.

It's a catchup post. I went through the entire forum to respond to thing that seemed interesting to me. If you look at my post's, or post's from my provious game, i can sometimes pull out a post from 10 days ago. I dont have much sequence, except for the sequence of the numbers on the post, because i am not pushing on someone or making some reads... im catching up. The purpose of a catchup post is to go to the topic, give your opinions and takes on things, and notify people that you have not died. I would say you would be the one copying others by bashing me for insequence, as Micc said this one already.

286 - this post makes me wonder if Child knows Yellow is town -- it just seems an odd way to talk to your only scumread in the game:

And you aren't even a liability. You clearly know what you are doing. A liability is someone who sits there and does nothing, like emperor is doing currently. Dont doubt yourself like that.

Im telling him that because he called himself a newbie player as a way to defend himself. It's a way i disproved him wrong and sort of motivated him at the same time.

361 - Child posts for the first time since TTTT and Micc voted Emp and has nothing at all to say about Emp being at L-1, other than...
368 - is that really

all

you have to say about this wagon at this point?

yes. problem? didn't care about the wagon. It wasn't something i was opposed to nor it was something i wanted to join. I found it strange why Micc voted, and he explained himself. Sorry for being lazy here, it is my fault.

393 - this is terrible. "hey guys I want you to know I also scumread Emp!

i didnt even scumread here, i just thought him dissapearing was a sign he is a given up scum, thats all. Im pretty sure i didnt post intent to hammer because other people did it already, so i was fine just sitting back and waiting for the next day to come.

I don't see any effort to sort players
he's just trying to look busy

I was busy, i am a senior in high school, lots of tests and study. Winter break now, you can talk to me, ask me question, go ahead. Ive been a bit lazy because of poor time management, and that is my personal problem.
Or if you don't want to talk to me, i can hammer myself right now.
I have around 1 hour, im going to sleep soon.

[Child]

also Child didn't reply to this...

VOTE: EmpFlipz L-2

@Child
you should vote this too and make it L-1

but did reply when I asked him a question four posts later in 331.
yeah I know yellow put Emp at L-1 before Child got here, but if Child legit was suspicious of Emp like he said in 393, why not make that known sooner?
why wait until the lynch is secure to make known your SR?

exactly. I didn't want to quickhammer. I only noticed he went really inactive, after some time passed. That's when i found his dissapearence interesting, and i honestly did not expect him to get lynched, that is why i didn't say much about the push. Thought emperor would simply catch up, that's what i was waiting on to form an opinion on him.

@Child - you should claim your role

VT.

[Child]

my only concern is that this would be too easy

Don't worry about that. I feel this game is just starting to get interesting.

VOTE: Micc

Why?

[Child]

Use today to get familiar with these slots

Not particulary related, but Micc is on V/LA, and i feel like most of the people here will be due to Christmas and New Years. Are we going to keep playing or will we get a break? I feel like a lot of people will be inactive, and that would be a waste of time for town. Maybe we can call it "Solar Eclipse D2"
I feel like a vote on Micc isnt the best choice rn, he is on V/LA and he wont be able to respond as properly as other players, unless that's what you are going for in getting him out of his confort zone.

[Child]

Use today to get familiar with these slots

Not particulary related, but Micc is on V/LA, and i feel like most of the people here will be due to Christmas and New Years. Are we going to keep playing or will we get a break? I feel like a lot of people will be inactive, and that would be a waste of time for town. Maybe we can call it "Solar Eclipse D2"
I feel like a vote on Micc isnt the best choice rn, he is on V/LA and he wont be able to respond as properly as other players, unless that's what you are going for in getting him out of his confort zone.

not new years, just christmas. Im a bit stupid, its late sorry.

[Child]

Thoughts on TTTT Child?

I think they are town, they are actively looking for scum, probably the most active here. I don't see them flipping scum currently, unless they are playing extremely agressive and plant to lead town into doom.

Use today to get familiar with these slots

Not particulary related, but Micc is on V/LA, and i feel like most of the people here will be due to Christmas and New Years. Are we going to keep playing or will we get a break? I feel like a lot of people will be inactive, and that would be a waste of time for town. Maybe we can call it "Solar Eclipse D2"
I feel like a vote on Micc isnt the best choice rn, he is on V/LA and he wont be able to respond as properly as other players, unless that's what you are going for in getting him out of his confort zone.

I feel like micc will respond positively to a bit of pressure

ok, that's fine then. Don't really know them but if i were in micc's situation i wouldn't be the most involved so it would be a bit difficult for me to respond here. Seems like micc's still able to do his thing so its cool.

Child -
plz give full reads
like I don't want all the reasons and posts and quotes
just generally who is towniest to scummiest?

Town
TTTT
Nikk
FF
Alonzo
Micc
YellowSnow
Scum

[Child]

Thx
Why is FF townier than Micc?

Micc being second mafia makes the most sense to me
The vote felt like a bus, that's why called them out before. the kill also makes it look like Micc did it, given how wazoo is the one who scumread Micc. Although this could have easily been set up so that's why they are still above yellow. FF while not contributing much aren't contributing negatively, so i put them in the middle. they are my null read, alonzo just 1% below.

[Child]

I feel like a nip scum flip would also help sort some of the newbies.

Now that it’s happened can you expand on this thought?

It's not well fleshed out yet, but I feel like with Nippy flipping scum means that the chances of the other scummer being a vet is slim. I could be wrong here, but I feel like a vet would have been able to give some advice and help Nip out on day 1.

Nip's problem is inactivity though, is it really something an experienced player can save?

[Child]

does anyone wanna hear a hitler joke?
fair warning it's not very funny

nein

[Child]

new resons to scumread yellowsnow. the rest are in my catchup post 261

I must admit I'm not comfortable with the "expeerienced" players skill level so far and find myself somewhat agreeing with Nikk. Don't want a quick lynch.

Unvote

you didn't want a quick lynch before, what changed?

I agree about TTTT. I don't think a naked L-1 vote screams town. To me it's the most visable action thus far in the game and deserves scrutiny.

the entire nikk situation applies today, he votes me to L-1 but does not realise this is what he said before. This does not necessarily mean he is scum, but i prefer people to be consistant with their morals.

VOTE: flippy
Lurker vote l1

a vote that could easily be bus, given how he hasnt said anything else about flippy before

Flippy and child are my scumreads

"guys i scumread flippy so my vote is justified", the same thing i was bashed for.

and the vote me to L-1 was scummy by itself imo, he is rushing for a quick night which is something i do not think town would really want to do, atleast town would give intent to hammer, like nikk did.

I feel like a nip scum flip would also help sort some of the newbies.

Now that it’s happened can you expand on this thought?

It's not well fleshed out yet, but I feel like with Nippy flipping scum means that the chances of the other scummer being a vet is slim. I could be wrong here, but I feel like a vet would have been able to give some advice and help Nip out on day 1.

Nip's problem is inactivity though, is it really something an experienced player can save?

Sort answer, yeah.

As scum I use the PT to dump everything I'm thinking, especially with a newbie as my partner. I would feel like, more so with Nips being the scum PR, that as the non pr scum it would have been up to me to protect Nips from a Lynch. Yes he was inactive, but with me as his partner he wouldn't have been. I think the same goes for most of the vets. We know how to carry teammates and make deep runs, part of that is knowing what you are doing and where you want to be going.

And an aside- looking at who the NK was suspect of is sketchy at best. I know that when I'm scum my NKs are strategic as hell, and would probably focus on the people who can read me better (this is if I were scum of course) like Lonzo or Micc.

One last thing. Mic have you modded a scum game from me?

ok, question to alonzo, FF and micc:
Can you give us a link to one of your scum games, where i can see the mafia chat? i need to verify this for myself.
now that i remember, ive heard some people saying he was logging in frequently, so he was definetly communicating with the scumteam. so what you are saying FF, it is beetween me, yellowsnow and nikk?

[Child]

VOTE: micc
My wagon is better.

VOTE: child

Cos I like to start my own wagon

This was the first thing that pinged me. I know it's a stretch, but the way that these posts almost mimic each other's flow and style made me feel like these were linked. Especially when Nips votes child, and then fucking winks at him man... Like the child vote could just be a cheeky AF greeting to his partner in thread.

this is correct, it does look very similar. i was making a joke, i assume he was too, cheekily biting me at the same time.

Let's all vote for a quick night.

Let's not do that? that's an incredibly scummy post.
VOTE: yellowsnow

This post was just awkward and cringe worthy. Why does yellow deserve to auto die for saying let's have a quick night? Seems over the top and fake to me, like child's just jumping on "scummy" behavior.

becuase he's the one who was the most pissed when we voted up nikk to L-1. i scumred him previously, i just needed a cherry on the top to vote him.

Flippy has been extremely useless, 4 posts and none of them contribute much at all. A great candidate for pressure, because inactivity is NAI but an easy mislynch for mafia.

Biggest thing for me is that I'm pretty sure this is the only time child even talks about Nips, and it was buried in a spoliered catch-up. As active as child has been, it makes no sense that he would basically ignore a guy scumming the thread up. Not even a mention about Nips saying he was gonna catch up and ghosting.

reasons of me not voting is not being around the time i was asked to get the L-2 vote. i also mention flippy later in this post:

8 hours is too long. I’ll be checking back in before I go work in 3 and if the catchup doesn’t look promising I’m declaring intent then.

Hold on, weren't you the one most opposed to pushing on people who are inactive?

That was before he came in and essentially scum claimed.

Intent to hammer in 24 hours

Fair enough, them dissapearing like that after getting a bit of pressure is very suspicious to me too imo.

[Child]

a few posts where micc actively discourages the push on flippy:

Spoiler:

VOTE: GrandWazoo

I find planting one's flag on a low activity slot to be pretty useless in actually getting them to change. If they're inactive enough the mod will deal with it and if they are around but not being useful then it's time to start asking prodding questions. Planting the flag and nothing more is just an easy under the radar push to make that sounds way more town than it is.

GrandWazoo expressed at least a small scum read on Yellow as TTTT was forming his push. I think GrandWazoo jumps in on that wagon if he's town and truly believes the push. As scum he's content to hang out on the low activity player's wagon.

Predit: ehh. I guess the same applies to you alonzo. What are you hoping to gain from that wagon?

GrandWazzo planting his flag on flippy is interesting considering Child and I have been equally lackluster. I'm curious why he thinks flippy is most deserving of the vote and also what he thinks he'll get from the vote. The lack of questioning makes the pressure pretty no existent imo.

I voted flippy RVS and regardless what little pressure it has I haven't seen a compelling reason to unvote him. Active lurking is anti-town and annoying, and often effective.

Perhaps you should ask him some direct questions. If he responds to them that's great - you've just earned more substance to form a read from and he's now more engaged to the game. If he ignore's you then you're adding to your case.

In addition to my vote, I've stated several times that flippy needs to get his ass in gear and demonstrate he's invested in the game. Once he does I'll query him for reads. I would like to know what he made of the Yellow-Nikk interchange.

This is the equivalent of yelling at your kids that they need to do better in school. While you're probably right, you're not going to enact any change just by yelling at them.
Your push just isn't productive. I understand wanting to get more from that slot but you've got to realize that your vote doesn't mean anything to him if he's already not engaged.


I don't like that Child's catchup doesn't have much direction to it. Yellow's vote for "fence-sitting" seems reasonable, and I assume that's a significant part of TTTT's vote as well, but it's not clear to me. I like the GrandWazoo push more at this point and would be happy if people joined me.

And how dare you say my vote doesn't mean anything. Every vote matters!

Your vote doesn't matter right now. It certainly hasn't made flippynips miraculously become engaged with the game. If you're town your wasting your most valuable tool.

I'm not trying to justify active lurking. I agree it's bad for town. But this is me standing here with my experience of dozens of newbie games moderated/IC'd telling you that your vote isn't going to get flippynips engaged with the game if he isn't already.

Let me ask you then: what do you expect to gain from pushing me? I have been engaged with the game. You seem more focused on who I have/haven't voted for than anything I've actually said.

I expect you to react to my push and I expect I will be able to form a read on you from your reaction. This is in contrast to your push which is unlikely to yield enough of a reaction to form a read from.

I’d also like to argue that you're not engaged in the game. You haven’t actually said anything in your posts besides defend from my push and call out flippynips for lurking. I have no way to know where you stand on over half the playerlist.

[Child]

For someone who was acting "very suspicious" you have a distinct lack of content directed towards them. Almost like you knew what the outcome would be so you avoid even looking in that direction for the most part.

tell me yourself - did you not find it very suspicious when flippy dissapeared? i felt it was noobscum giving up. this is my only other post directed towards then since this is the time i really noticed the dissapearance, and i think i was making this post in school. after i came back, others gave intent to hammer (or even when i was there making the post, i cannot remember exactly), so i did not interfere with the push anymore. i felt i could have also declared intent to hammer, but 2 other people have and i found it unecesarry to be the third. i also think it would be a scummy move from me, i would see it as me looking for towncred by doing "hey guys i will also hammer look at me being townie here". post 481 allready gave me backlash, an intent to hammer would give me more of it and it would be a fluff post thagt i would not like.

[Child]

For someone who was acting "very suspicious" you have a distinct lack of content directed towards them. Almost like you knew what the outcome would be so you avoid even looking in that direction for the most part.

tell me yourself - did you not find it very suspicious when flippy dissapeared? i felt it was noobscum giving up. this is my only other post directed towards then since this is the time i really noticed the dissapearance, and i think i was making this post in school. after i came back, others gave intent to hammer (or even when i was there making the post, i cannot remember exactly), so i did not interfere with the push anymore. i felt i could have also declared intent to hammer, but 2 other people have and i found it unecesarry to be the third. i also think it would be a scummy move from me, i would see it as me looking for towncred by doing "hey guys i will also hammer look at me being townie here". post 481 allready gave me backlash, an intent to hammer would give me more of it and it would be a fluff post thagt i would not like.

im stupid sorry, for some strange reason i thought you quoted my post where i say i found flippy suspicious, lol. its not post 481, it is post 393

[Child]

@child if you look in my last half dozen newbie games, iv got two as scum and one I'm town with FF scum

ok thanks mate, have you played a game where micc was scum?

[Child]

Hahaha just kidding then.

Blame it on it being my first post after waking up.

You can still vote me if you want to, it just means someone else will have to hammer.

Currently looking through alonzo's profile, found the game where he was scum, and just looking at the scum chat makes me think there was not much effort to really save the mafia buddy from getting lynched, which would sort of confirm my theory. Will need to read the entire game though, i've only read a few pages of the ending previously, and the mafia chat. Currently reading page 2.

[Child]

1887 is a more rounded example of me as part of a Mafia team.
My last game both my scum buddies only signed in about once every 3 days and gave me the bare minimum of cover.
That's also how I knew Flippynips wasn't comfortable posting here, having seen him town in that game there was a marked difference in his input.
Ask yourself.. Would I bus my my partner, lose the game, then come straight out in the next and lynch my buddy day one without a claim?

Yeah, fair point. Although i still believe it's better to bus than not bus. But you being second (?) vote on him doesn't seem likely if you were scum. I am just reading the game because the scenario is sort of similar, and i want to see if you act differently in it.
That is why my prime suspect is Micc right now.

[Child]

NK analysis is generally a bad way to find scum
I often think I have it figured out based on the NK
and then I'm wrong

true - that's exactly while i am hesitant to make the push. i do think however that micc discouraging us to make the wagon on flippy is a tad scummy.

[Child]

VOTE: Alonzo

I just reread end of day 1 and his dance from being on the wagon to wanting the hammer to resisting from lolhammering, to lolhammering anyway feels like distancing that went wrong and turned into a bus. He also keeps voting me without saying anything and I don’t know why he thinks that would be productive.

first part is a large stretch, and All of Alonzo's votes on you seem to be explained,so im unsure on what you were getting to. I think its a pretty weak case either way, if he was confirmed or not.

[Child]

I don't see a town child case.

I don't see a scum case either. I was asked questions, i responded to them. Do you have any questions for me?

Waiting for Micc to get out of V/LA currently.

[Child]

I don't see a town child case.

I don't see a scum case either. I was asked questions, i responded to them. Do you have any questions for me?

Waiting for Micc to get out of V/LA currently.

This is like the second time you've implied that I have to convince you that you're scum. I think the case is way more self explanatory than you think it is.

just say if you are feeling lazy it's christmas

[Child]

L-1, i intend to hammer in 24 hours

let me add some things ontop of what FF has said.

[Child]

I'm ok with a hammer as long as you give him that full 24 hours

i might end up giving him more,i have family visiting tommorow so i might end up not getting online at all, only to hammer the following day.

Child Is willing to hammer anyone as long as it isn't him. I am betting on town micc.

all you are doing is throwing shade. if you think micc is town, why?

[Child]

You're giving up if micc is town?

TTTT is a tracker claim. did you read anything?

[Child]

You're giving up if micc is town?

TTTT is a tracker claim. did you read anything?

Is that a game requirement? Lol.

ofcourse not, but you are getting an F on the test!

Child Is willing to hammer anyone as long as it isn't him. I am betting on town micc.

^TOWNTOWNTOWN^

(but prob wrong about Micc)

i dont see how is this a town post, can you explain?

[Child]

I think it's unlikely that...
in his first game scum!yellow attempts to derail a mislynch
on day2
after his partner was lynched day1
it would be such an easy wagon to jump onto if he were scum
or at least just stay out of the way

fair, although he is still saying he would lynch micc the following day, so i dont entirely buy it, but i get your point.

[Child]

I’m driving home tonight. I’ll be able catch back up then or tomorrow morning depending how late it is. You’re welcome to compile a list of things you want me to respond to. Right now I have no idea what you want from me.

cool, i found a little bit. you should also respond to what FF told you, but i think that's self explanatory.

NK analysis is generally a bad way to find scum
I often think I have it figured out based on the NK
and then I'm wrong

true - that's exactly while i am hesitant to make the push. i do think however that micc discouraging us to make the wagon on flippy is a tad scummy.

Why’s it scummy? Pushing players for not contributing in the early parts of Day 1 is not productive. I’m going to stand by that belief regardless of what the player happened to flip. Calling it scummy here is results oriented thinking.

you pushed on grand for not being productive as well, which i would say also isn't productive. your other post were spent encouraging players to get off other wagons and join yours.

strongest read and why?

TTTT as town. Its hard to pull off what he has as scum, the amount of posting that is. And quantity isnt everything, but I think that theres a good amount of quality posts in that amount on content as well. I see a person playing the game in a way that moves it forward and done as a means to gather info. Scum doesnt need to do that and would have more of an agenda in place.

Flippynips as scum. I'm taking 346 as a scum claim. There's no reason for that to be his only comment about the first seven pages if he's town. There's especially no reason for him to disappear once people start pressuring him about it if he's town. I think that post was his attempt at making a "townslip" to get him off the hot seat quickly and easily.

he is a noob, you have moderated several newbie games and i would think you know that new players often struggle to get anything, even from a few pages. i personally think getting little from a lot of pages is NaI, i know i have struggled to do anything on my first games as well. i understand the second part of the read, but the first part of the read makes me think it is fabricated, and you just made it to solidify your read and make it look more legit.

i honestly still struggle to believe the shift from "you guys should not push someone who is not active, even if they are lurking, because it is not productive" to "let me join in on this, this guy is confirmed scum" it seems you have pulled up a reason that isn't entirely legit just to not be called a hypocrite.

[Child]

I implore the town to Lynch child instead of micc.

I will Lynch micc day 3 if I am wrong.

How are you so certain it's Child?

I'm not certain. He has a scum mindset. Opportunistic, survivalist, no town hunting.

what makes you think im opportunistic and survivalist?
what is town hunting? is it making cases on why someone is town? if so, third point is correct, i am usually more focused on finding scum than i am town, and i get town reads as i go along the game, i dont actively look for town

[Child]

I implore the town to Lynch child instead of micc.

I will Lynch micc day 3 if I am wrong.

How are you so certain it's Child?

I'm not certain. He has a scum mindset. Opportunistic, survivalist, no town hunting.

Talking of which, Yellow I'm not sure what your reads onthe other players outside of child are?

i think he reads everyone town except me. when i asked him why he thinks micc is town he said

@child because there is only one scum left and that is you.

i think he is deathtunneling me rn.

[Child]

Alright, ill hammer.

VOTE: micc

[Child]

Good game lads, 2 games and 2 D2 wins so im very proud of my progress
this genuinely made my morning