Newbie 1913 - game over!!

[DoubtingThomas]

sup kids

[DoubtingThomas]

darn no one is as hyped to be here huh

[DoubtingThomas]

i guess i will explain my experience first

i am fairly new to forum mafia, although i have gotten a lot more games than one would normally for the duration of the time one were playing

I kinda play in Mafia Universe so I am not total noob although last time I tried mafia scum the longer day/night phases kinda demoralized my motivation to play and kinda hindered my game play

this time I am going to limit the number of games I get exposed to so I will focus on 1-2 games on mafiascum to get the most out of my experience

[DoubtingThomas]

Well, nobody is here. I will go for tonight and be back tomorrow.

In the mean time I will sing you guys a song I like

Gotta get that
Gotta get that
Gotta get that
Gotta get that that that
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom
That boom boom boom
That boom boom boom
Boom boom boom
Yo
I got the hit that beat the block
You can get that bass overload
I got the that rock and roll
That future flow
That digital spit
Next level visual shit
I got that (Boom boom boom)
How the beat bang (Boom boom boom)
I like that boom boom pow
Them chickens jackin' my style
They try to copy my swagger
I'm on that next shit now
I'm so 3008
You so 2000 and late
I got that boom boom boom
That future boom boom boom
Let me get it now
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom
That boom boom boom
That boom boom boom
Boom boom boom
I'm on that supersonic boom
Y'all hear the spaceship zoom
When when I step inside the room them girls go ape shit, uh
Y'all stuck on super A-shit
That low-fi stupid 8 bit
I'm on that HD flat
This beat go boom boom pow
I'm a beast when you turn me on
Into the future cybertron
Harder, faster, better, stronger
Text the ladies longer, 'cause
We got to beat that bounce
We got to beat that pounds
We got the beat that 808
That the boom boom in your town
People in the place
If you wanna get down
Put your hands in the air
Will.I.am drop the beat now
Yep yep
I be rockin' the beats (Yep, yep)
I be rockin' the beats (Yep yep yep, yep)
Here we go, here we go
Satellite radio
Y'all getting hit with the (Boom boom)
Beats so big I'm steppin on leprechauns
Shitin' on y'all you with the (Boom boom)
Shitin' on y'all you with the (Boom boom)
Shitin' on y'all you with the
This beat be bumpin' bumpin'
This beat go boom boom
Let the beat rock
Let the beat rock
Let the beat rock
This beat be bumpin' bumpin'
This beat go boom boom
I like that boom boom pow
Them chickens jackin' my style
They try to copy my swagger
I'm on that next shit now
I'm so 3008
You so 2000 and late
I got that boom boom boom
That future boom boom boom
Let me get it now
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom (Gotta get that)
Boom boom boom
That boom boom boom
That boom boom boom
Boom boom boom
Let the beat rock (Let the beat rock)
Let the beat rock (Let the beat)
Let the beat rock (Let the beat rock, rock, rock, rock)

[DoubtingThomas]

VOTE: The Worst

@The Worst if you thought being the mod would stop me from voting for you during RVS, think again buddy.

Let's get a wagon going against TW!

Here's a good teaching moment for the newbies, voting the mod is never funny.

Why not?

VOTE: brass

[DoubtingThomas]

I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf

[DoubtingThomas]

I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf

hey doubtingthomas, can i refer to you as DT?
i'll give a slight town lean on this slot, seems eager to solve..
dont agree with giving town cred on shanks for above..though it's very early in the game still..

Volxen. Im wondering how fast is your typing speed. It felt weird that transition from lynching the mod to starting a random vote. And it all happened in seven minutes. Why didnt you include both in same message or was that an afterthought. Or did you do that to seperate the joke from the real part. Still I find it a little fishy that that happened in seven minutes.

VOTE: volxen

hmmm..feels reachy, but meh..

VOTE: brass
let's wagon the IC..

I am referred to as DT by people familiar with me so yes

[DoubtingThomas]

I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf

Akagami wasn’t even supposed to post, since he was replaced by Roo (who did place an RVS vote). Nonetheless, why do you think Akagami’s slot deserves town credit for posting but not placing an RVS vote? Voting during the early game/RVS helps to move the game forward by generating discussion and allowing us to see how people respond to votes/pressure, and we ultimately have to lynch scum to win, so voting is a pro-town action. Just popping in to say “hi” doesn’t help to move the game forward. And why make the comment that “itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf”? Most people (regardless of alignment) vote for someone during RVS.

I already explained it.

He didn't vote when 4 people in front of him did.

As a wolf, your mindset naturally tends to be "I want to assimilate with the crowd (towns people who are not on your team)"

You see 4 people vote in front of you, you may

think

it's more natural to vote with them

the dude didn't

i think that comes from a townie mindset that wants to focus on themselves rather than be fake and "look" like they are townie

[DoubtingThomas]

First game, so I may need a bit of help.

nice

do you have anyt houghts on anyone that's posted?

[DoubtingThomas]

UNVOTE: xwing

Wait, Volxen you are more sure is town than me, and he's a top suspect?

Your reads don't match your vote, explain ASAP

+1

@DoubtingThomas, you were quite enthusiastic at the start of the game, where are you now?

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

Do you think that's enough to warrant a L-1 so early?

sorry, I have been involved in a mash that ended recently was being pre-occupied so whats going on

wheres everyone headed

[DoubtingThomas]

did brass keep their rvs vote on me?

[DoubtingThomas]

did brass keep their rvs vote on me?

I never voted you this entire game.

Wait, do you think your vote on me is me voting you?

That's not how to read a vote count.

yeah LOL that's what happened lmfao ok

what reads do you have brass?

[DoubtingThomas]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..

For the most part I'm trying to figure out how forum mafia works honestly, as stated before I've only really played Town of Salem which is much more fast paced than this, trying to learn as I go. I'm not trying to lead for any lynching based on the fact that I'm not sure how well any scum reading I might be able to pick up would actually be.

Same here. I'm used to a 24 hour day cycle, which is much faster paced. Posting will help you with that.

Right now I have to agree with xwing.

VOTE: SaintAngelDFE

So tell us, what are your reads? On Day 1 they're always weak, so no worries there.

Right now? My reads are that xwing is likely town, he is jumping around a lot and searching from information.
Brass makes me nervous because he is experienced, I'm not sure I'm ready or even able to make an accurate claim on him yet.
The vote on Roo was more or less trying to see if he could have been trying to talk to other mafia before he responded? But unfortunately the response he gave seemed genuine and not rushed. It was a reach and I should have voiced it.
I don't have too much of a read on Volxen based on similar issues as Brass, however I feel a little more sure that he's town.
Yellow is neutral to me, I'm not picking up on anything going either direction.
DoubtingThomas is talkative and definitely trying to push forward to get information, but he hasn't really pushed for any. I think that's suspicious, but like I said I'm still learning.

My suspects right now are between Volxen and DT. VOTE: volxen

Wait, Volxen you are more sure is town than me, and he's a top suspect?

Your reads don't match your vote, explain ASAP

My bad for the late response to this one - long day at work. I had been typing this in between a couple of meetings and must have honestly gotten mixed up while reading it back through, no real excuse as to why I added Volxen or voted him.

I need to start re-reading what I type, especially if I'm going to try and post while at work apparently. My only "scum read" is on DT honestly, but I'm not completely sure about Yellow or Brass still.


VOTE: DoubtingThomas

could you explain this scum read of yours ?

[DoubtingThomas]

My bad for the late response to this one - long day at work. I had been typing this in between a couple of meetings and must have honestly gotten mixed up while reading it back through, no real excuse as to why I added Volxen or voted him.

I need to start re-reading what I type, especially if I'm going to try and post while at work apparently. My only "scum read" is on DT honestly, but I'm not completely sure about Yellow or Brass still.

sorry saint, im not sold on your explanation..
if it was a mistype or mix up, then you should had have just one scum read and not two?
also, DT and volxen are waaaay too distinct from each other to have them mixed up..
lastly, your reads are almost all null or back tracking..
like what's your case on DT? he's "pushing forward for info but then not really pushing"? i dont get what you're saying..

right i havent really pushed for anything outside of page 1 which is already <rand voting stage

do you have reads on anything rn?

[DoubtingThomas]

L84, what are your thoughts

[DoubtingThomas]

"IC_Question": What if scum plays exactly as they would if they were town? Wouldn't it be impossible to catch them?

I wouldn't say impossible. At the end of the game there's always a question of why someone is there. Night Kills generally aim for people who are either super Towny, an obvious PR or sometimes just someone who is too close to solving the game.

That being said, it can be very hard to catch a skilled scum player who has a scum range which closely emulates their town. If someone gets that reputation, people will probably just start lynching that individual before end game to be safe

It is not impossible because they have exactly different players they need to lynch to win

For example if I am in a game of 13 players, there are usually 3 scums.

Say I am town. My goal is to find 3 scums out of the 12 players, or 9 towns out of the 12 players (excluding myself)

Say I am scum. My goal is to mislynch the other 10 players (excluding myself and two teammates, total of 3 mafias in a 13 player game)

In the process, maybe I can also bus my other two teammates for some credit, but in the end I have to kill at least 7 town players as scum (because 3 towns - 3 scums is a parity win condition for scum so i need to at LEAST kill 7 players), whereas as town, I have to find and kill other 3 scum players, while in the process towns will be night killed and potentially be lynched, but I can theoretically win the game after only 5 players have died (by lynching all 3 scums back to back to back meanwhile during the nights 2 towns are being night killed)

I know that explanation kinda sucked, but that is basically the core reason.

Don't forget, during the process of the game, the logic/reasoning for one person to use for scum reading a town as a town and wolf and also scum reading a scum/bussing a scum as a town/wolf will have differences, inherently

[DoubtingThomas]

@DoubtingThomas

Assuming you were another player in the game, would you scumread Doubtingthomas?

Would be nice if you addressed this:

Doubting Thomas is asking very general questions rather than pointed ones, that seems like being active lurking. I mean, there is a difference between asking someone what they think of the gamestate and what they think of a specific slot or a specific post. I feel like we are at the point where the questions should be specific rather than general. The questions just seem too easy.

Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?

I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whatever

I am also going to be telling you the 100% truth and giving you this answer pretending I am another player who is completely aware of how DoubtingThomas works (well, because I am DoubtingThomas)

No, I won't for several reasons

Well, first, what brass has pointed out is very true. Asking 'general' question is an easy way for scums to make themselves

LOOK

like they are trying to solve. Brass makes an extremely good point that such questions are often >rand wolf for people, especially newer players.

He mentions also that asking "pin pointed" questions are beter than general questions. This is true. However, what he forgets is that good wolves will do townie things. Bad towns will do scummy things.

I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

The point brass is making is pretty good, and can generally be considered as kind of a "rule of thumb" especially in a newbie game like this one

But at the same time, if werewolf games were that easy, we won't have any good players right? Towns have done really dumb/anti-town things all the time. To the point where it is better for some of them to just kinda be policy lynched for being so bad.

I think I am going nowhere this pep talk. I have an issue always just rambling and talking abotu random shit that is unnecessary and that's why I don't do well in my job interviews.

Anyways, the point being, what Brass said is true to some extent. But it is not a good tell to one of the more experienced players.

Now let's go back to what I personally think about DT based on what I know.

DT has 9000 posts in a different website called Mafia Universe where he created the account mid-July of 2018. On record, he has about ~55 games played. A lot of them are turbos (which are very short 18min/6min mini games) and loves to play on 12hours/12hours phases or at the most 36/12hours phases. He subbed out of a lot of games on mafia scum when he joined a bunch couple months ago because the week long phases just was too much/boring for DT who likes to post a shitton

Given that, I think DT's overall performance here has been underwhelming for sure. However, I also know that DT

LOVES

to wolf. He loves to town too, but loves to wolf a lot more. He is also a far better wolf than town. What Brass has commented which is definitely lackluster of DT is never really a wolf tell for him. Rather, personally, I think it makes DT >rand town because he will high post and generate content as both alignment, quite frankly, but he will never be caught as a wolf for not really doing anything or trying to act fakely townie

DT will do what he does as town as a wolf. The questions he asks, the comments he make, the shitposts he writes, and the pushes he commits always come from the fact that he truly

BELIEVES

in (as a town) that or KNOWS THAT HE WILL BELIEVE it if he were town (as a wolf)

DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.

Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment

Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

For the record I think it's possible there may be scum on Roo's wagon. It's not me, but if had to guess I'd say l84 or Saint based on wagon position. I still think Roo is more likely scum than either though.

what do you mean by the wagon position? can you explain?

why do you think roo is more likely scum tahn l84 or saint?

[DoubtingThomas]

Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh

Are you talking about yourself in the third person and reading yourself.

This is why I also hate walls, if you can say something in fewer words, say it that way, this post in general is too hard to follow and I have no clue what you are trying to say.

I think this post is extremely bad in a scummy way

First problem

He attacks the post which was merely an ANSWER to another player's question

Second problem

I see really no point of making this post at all.
He's asking a very simple question that can be kinda inferred to (that I made this post in a third person way) but also at the same time, the question itself doesn't contribute to ANY scum hunting at all. The answer to whether or not I wrote the post in a third person does not help brass know my alignment at all.

Third problem

Then he goes on to attack my post in a way that's NAI and kinda pointless to point out. That "he hates walls" again which is his opinion, and he is free to express it. However, by expressing this opinion along with a pointless question he asked above, he is literally contributing nothing to the thread but still commenting on a post which was not directed towards him at all.

I think him giving out a negative opinion about the post which is not about the content of the post and how that may be townish/scummish of me is usually how scums tend to try to

shade

other players.

Overall, this post has 3 things I hate so much

- Belittling a post in a very indirect yet meaningless way
- Using that negative factor of the post to attack my slot/give a negative impression to others about me
- While in actuality if you look into this post, he contributed absolutely nothing. He did not enhance a conversation between me and him nor gave any useful analysis wrt my post

Furthermore, I think his complaint about how "he hates long post" and "if you have a succinct way of say something, say it in a simpler way" is just kinda really bad approach to the game

I can understand disliking long posts and I am sorry if you think that it makes the point I am trying to get across to be lost in the middle of it, but I make long posts because I tend to get on a tangent and write about all the thoughts I have in the process. To partly show a transparent thought process I have. This way, I can show others how/why I felt/thought abotu something in a certain way and discuss about it with them. Which will help me understand the other person's alignment better

You can dislike long posts and hate my post for not getting straight to the point, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

At the same time, I now think it's

REALLY SCUMMY

for you to just attack my post based on the fact that it's a long post and I didn't get my point across with it. rather than talking/expressing about how that makes me townie/scummy nor actually trying to ask me questions about the confusion you have with the post.

Because if you are town, you should be curious about the confusion you have. You express that you did not understand my post completely, but really don't ask a legit question that will help your clarification. Rather, you focus on how that makes my posting bad. Again, I think that comes from a scummy agenda that you want to give others the impression that I am posting badly.

I believe you are scum here, sir.

VOTE: Brass

[DoubtingThomas]

noted on your thoughts re the "townslip"..
im struggling a bit on the strength of my reads i guess so im trying to grasp at what i can to narrow my suspects..
im pretty sure brass and l8 are town though..
volxen *might* be town..

also brass, what if you want to quote multiple portions from singular post to put comments in between? is there no way but to quote the entire post then edit it? i usually copy-paste the whole "quote" at the start of every statement..

which part do you think is town slip for me? I don't really understand what you think is a slip from me. lol

why do you think brass/l8/volxen are towny?

Do you have thoughts on the one post (i know it is only one post) I made about brass?

[DoubtingThomas]

for illustration purposes, i want to easily accomplish something like this:

what reads do you have brass?

I feel like I just answered this one, and it seems this is the only question directed at me right now. Not too much change here.

yes, that's true

I like XWing for town, though, independent of there being too many scumspects.

yey!

That being said, I don't see a townslip from DT, and I will also remind people town slips can be faked, if it's even there.

duly noted..

pedit: oh okay, thanks brass!!

why don't you inquire brass why he thinks you are town over the few posts you've made so far?

scums can also give easy town reads to actual towns to try to pocket them/befriend them and make them

trying to understand why someone is town reading you is a key factor in trying to solve that person's alignment, imo

[DoubtingThomas]

@hearth:
to backtrack means to reverse your position on someone or something, but in a scummy/unnatural way..
also brass is right, drawing associations is far too early, i just combined my two biggest scum reads to make the scum team..hence saint-yellow..

@DT: this is important!!!
scum know who their fellow scum are, and they know everyone's alignment already..
they also have a private thread where they can communicate/interact at anytime (called daychat)..
what they dont know is who the town power roles (TPRs) are..
depending on the setup we are in though, they *may* have roles to find out who the PR is (e.g. mafia rolecop)..

i think DT may be town by virtue of townslip..

...What are you talking about? There are literally no townslips in any of DT's posts. And why are you telling DT all of this? He has been on this site for over 6 months and has played in several games, including multiple newbie games. So DT is well aware of all of the things that you are telling him here.

Please elaborate, because I don't understand why you directed all of that at DT.

I like this series of questions from you. Inquisitive attitude is always an attitude a town should have

I also want to like xswing for being nice to me trying to catch me up with stuff I might be lacking as a newbie

[DoubtingThomas]

UNVOTE: Doubting thomas

personallyi dont like this unvote

he voted me in an RVS, but then immediately posts 'unvote' to vote someone to get on a wagon?

[DoubtingThomas]

I find it unlikely that players would admit to liking to play scum. Being a dangerous scum player would increase the likelyhood of being lynched on that basis alone.

mm, personally like the tone here

[DoubtingThomas]

@DT Self-meta (what you were doing in your post 186) is one of the least reliable sources of informations, even when the player is town. It's so poor that using it is frequently regarded as a scumtell.

And your reaction is way out of proportion to what BrassHerald said, so have a Finger-o-Suspiscion on me.

okay, but he asked me if I was another player if I would scum read DoubtingThomas

I would definitely use my meta on myself so I am not sure what the point of this post is. Again, seems like you are trying to twist words to make me look worse even though the self meta was necessary part of the answer to the question he asked

[DoubtingThomas]

Scum tend to like to try and avoid the spotlight because they know that they're targets.

And your reaction is way out of proportion to what BrassHerald said, so have a Finger-o-Suspiscion on me.

Question,

You believe scum tend to avoide the spotlight

My reaction was way out of proportion to what Brass said, so I made myself get in the spotlight

Why do you scum read me for that again?