Newbie 1913 - game over!!

[hearthstone1235]

VOTE: DoubtingThomas
When someone sings a song. The perfect natural reaction is to lynch them. Amiright

[hearthstone1235]

UNVOTE: Doubting thomas

[hearthstone1235]

Volxen. Im wondering how fast is your typing speed. It felt weird that transition from lynching the mod to starting a random vote. And it all happened in seven minutes. Why didnt you include both in same message or was that an afterthought. Or did you do that to seperate the joke from the real part. Still I find it a little fishy that that happened in seven minutes.

VOTE: volxen

[hearthstone1235]

Volxen. Im wondering how fast is your typing speed. It felt weird that transition from lynching the mod to starting a random vote. And it all happened in seven minutes. Why didnt you include both in same message or was that an afterthought. Or did you do that to seperate the joke from the real part. Still I find it a little fishy that that happened in seven minutes.

VOTE: volxen

Yes, I planned to do it that way (two separate posts made a few minutes apart) as part of the joke. And I do type fairly fast.

Given that it was a joke made in jest

(because The Worst and I are friends and have played a fair amount of games together)

, why does the fact that the two posts were made seven minutes apart in particular stand out to you as weird or fishy?

Seven minutes means that there was a slight delay between you posting the two messages depending on your typing speed, in that period you might've looked at it and wondered whether posting that joke was really the right choice...Scum tend to be more paranoid than townies. Or you could've posted the joke, waited a minute or two for dramatic effect then started typing your next random voting message. Or you could've posted the joke and started writing the next post semi-instantaneously.

I suppose it also depends whether you made the joke before or not. It appears that you did based on the bolded part. Which would indicate that the first scenario is quite unlikely now.

UNVOTE: volxen

I agree with this being a reach for the stars.
VOTE: hearthstone1235

Ya well, early game you don't have a lot of stuff to do so I think digging in the little things can have its own perks in sparking discussion for the day to move on so that we can get more information.

[hearthstone1235]

Volxen. Im wondering how fast is your typing speed. It felt weird that transition from lynching the mod to starting a random vote. And it all happened in seven minutes. Why didnt you include both in same message or was that an afterthought. Or did you do that to seperate the joke from the real part. Still I find it a little fishy that that happened in seven minutes.

VOTE: volxen

hmmm..feels reachy, but meh..

VOTE: brass
let's wagon the IC..

"Let's wagon the IC" has similar meaning to "Let's lynch the IC" which implies that you want at least one more person after you to lynch the IC which would put them in L-1.

VOTE: xwing

(Also, one more question, if you think that was reachy why didn't you vote me or try to apply pressure. you've just seen something that you deem as scummy. are you going to let it get away!!)

[hearthstone1235]

I think scum worry a bit more about being found out. So they try to avoid doing scummy things and double-check their posts etc..

[hearthstone1235]

That's fair, actually. Best thing would be to not change your play style, right?

I suppose, though I wonder if the experience gained from playing more games would make any major shifts in one's playstyle.

Do you really think this was an attempt to try get people to lynch the IC? Why don't you think it was just typical day 1 pressure or even a little bit of kidding around?

Hmm, that's what the literal meaning seems to indicate. I think it is a possibility. I'm not sure how dangerous is an early L-2 is, it doesn't seem that dangerous to me because it is extremely unlikely that the IC would be hammered that early. and I think it wouldn't be the smartest of moves for scum if they just hammer.

I don't think they're kidding around. It is definitely possible that it is just a day 1 pressure vote. I think that possibility is even more likely. Though I find it hard to talk about pressure votes because they lose their kinda purpose once you mention that they are pressure votes. Which is why some people reply to questions asking for the reason for their votes with "Why not?".

But what doesn't sit right with me is, that they asked for a bandwagon after putting IC to L-2 without mentioning that it is L-2. Though they did post it after a votecount. It wasn't that obvious that brass was in danger of being lynched.

[hearthstone1235]

wagoning does not equate to lynch..did i say that anywhere or are you purposely misrepping me?
i said it was reachy, i didnt say it was scummy.. what kind of cases do you expect by page 2?

Wagoning does equate to voting. I do tend to say lynching a lot when I mean "lynch voting" by it. I thought it was clear from my message.

Or by "lynch" do you mean "lynch votes" as well? I'm pretty sure that you can't wagon without voting. What did you expect from suggesting to bandwagon brass? If another person hops on the bandwagon then they'd be at L-1 so early in the game.

I think that the definition of reachy is "Use small cases in order to get someone lynched(killed) without proper reasons", or "Trying to find any reasons however small to get a specific person to get lynched". I consider that as leaning on the scummy side. (Couldn't really find any documentation on its meaning), What do you think its meaning is?

do you think what you did was scummy?

Hmm, nope. And I don't think it was reachy based on what I think reachy means.

[hearthstone1235]

@brass, Do you have anything to say/any reads? You haven't been generating a lot of in-game content so far, if any.

@roo, How dangerous do you think L-2 is?

[hearthstone1235]

(Going to take a while to catch up)

Spoiler: xwing

Wagoning does equate to voting. I do tend to say lynching a lot when I mean "lynch voting" by it. I thought it was clear from my message.

Or by "lynch" do you mean "lynch votes" as well? I'm pretty sure that you can't wagon without voting. What did you expect from suggesting to bandwagon brass? If another person hops on the bandwagon then they'd be at L-1 so early in the game.

a wagon does not result in a lynch if there are not enough votes on it..
a wagon is indeed needed to get a lynch, but will not always result in one (see above)..
i dont understand what you mean by "lynch vote" compared to just a "vote"..

a lynch vote is exactly the same as a vote. What I was saying that I sometimes mean "vote" when I mention the word "lynch". Because I always thought that the word "lynch" has at least 2 meanings (vote or kill)

look back at this:

"Let's wagon the IC" has similar meaning to "Let's

lynch

the IC" which implies that you want at least one more person after you to

lynch

the IC which would put them in L-1.

I think it is pretty much obvious that the blue word means "vote" instead of "kill". Though now that I look back at it, the red word seems closer to "kill" than "vote". (However, the intended meaning here is "vote") Which is my bad, I'll take care in the future to say "vote" instead of "lynch".

That should clear things up a little bit. Did you want another person to vote for the IC after you? When you said "Let's wagon the IC" were you meaning it in the literal sense that you want more people to vote for the IC?

i'll throw the question back at you..what do you think can be achieved by forming a wagon? i even specifically chose the IC, who is the most experienced player among all of us..
my action loses it's power by me needing to explain it..

Early bandwagons can lead to a lot of discussion and stir things up to start off to a fruitful day 1. which is definitely profitable for town. Unless someone is in danger of being lynched.

I suppose if you were trying to do that, then

1. "Let's wagon the IC" wasn't meant to be taken literally but it means that you intend to put another vote on brass causing a bandwagon. While not necessarily asking someone to follow suit, and if someone does bring the IC to L-1 or to a hammer even. It would be quite obvious they were scum.

2. Stating that it is L-2 wouldn't make sense along with "Let's wagon".

And that's pretty much seals the case. I think that this scenario is more likely (as stated in my previous post) and it would make more sense.

But why would you target the IC specifically? I think that out of everyone, the IC is the most knowledgeable about this tactic, that talking about it wouldn't even matter, as evidenced from their reaction.

i know this isnt addressed to me, so im just gonna ask the last part..
do you mean if i indicated that it was L-2, it would be fine with you?
so is your issue with my vote being the unannounced L-2? or the appeal to wagon the IC?

I should probably have addressed it to you directly. Glad you included it.
If you mentioned it was L-2 at that moment. I probably wouldn't have given it that much attention. Though I don't think your vote would've made a lot of sense then.

huh..if by your definition it wasn't scummy, why would you want me to vote for it, when i said it was reachy, but i didnt say it was scummy?
reachy reasoning for me means it's a stretch..
so for me yes your reasoning on suspecting volxen based on 7-minute joke is reachy, but i didnt find it scummy at that point, hence the "meh" comment..
whether you are trying to get someone lynched or not doesn't make it any more or less reachy..

By my definition, it wasn't reachy. But by my definition, what is reachy is slightly scummy, judging by the following quote:

I think that the definition of reachy is "Use small cases in order to get someone lynched(killed) without proper reasons", or "Trying to find any reasons however small to get a specific person to get lynched". I consider that as

leaning on the scummy side

.

But since you said that it was reachy, I assumed that you thought it was scummy. So, I was wondering why were you willingly ignoring something scummy so early in the game (when there's usually not a lot of stuff to do)...

[hearthstone1235]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..
.

Would be nice if you address that post @Saint.

[hearthstone1235]

screw it, he already did. didn't see that post

[hearthstone1235]

UNVOTE: xwing

Wait, Volxen you are more sure is town than me, and he's a top suspect?

Your reads don't match your vote, explain ASAP

+1

@DoubtingThomas, you were quite enthusiastic at the start of the game, where are you now?

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

Do you think that's enough to warrant a L-1 so early?

[hearthstone1235]

*Order Taken From Playerlist*

hearthstone1235 - not really a fan of anything hearth has done. First talking about the delay in Volxen's posts seemed like an odd thing to me. Voting xwing for the "lets lynch the IC" comment felt like another stretch. Also something about 78 doesn't sit well with me either. This feels a lot like someone trying to find fire where there is no smoke.
YellowSnow - lots of posts, not a lot of substance. Null/town read. Eyebrow definitely raised at not wanting to lynch the IC on day 1
L84Dnr - town read, came in and has been engaged given fair reads and asking questions
DoubtingThomas - completely null at this point, nothing to go off of
SaintAngelDFE - again completely null, no reads or anything yet from this player
volxen - town read, like the questions in 35 and 74
xwing - town, to this point has had the most activity directed at scumhunting
brassherald - slight town, lots of IC posts so far but also nothing jumps out as too suspicious yet


feel like pressure could be applied elsewhere to help move things along. Also SaintAngel says I haven't said anything, but his posts aren't exactly bountiful to this point so

VOTE: SaintAngel

Can you elaborate a little on what exactly you mean by "Finding fire where there is no smoke" because I could interpret it in at least 2 different ways.
What do you think of YellowSnow putting the L-1 on you?
Why do you think brassherald is slight town? Is the only reason for that is because nothing jumps out as suspicious yet?

Appreciate the readlist.

[hearthstone1235]

The "Finding Fire" comment was directed at how it felt like to me that you were throwing these things at the wall just to see what would stick. Then if anybody questioned you motives behind these reachy things, you could easily just say that it's early on Day 1 and you were trying to see who would jump at what you were saying.

How would you describe the motives behind some of your early pressure? Is there anyone that stands out as more likely scum?

I'm not troubled by being put at L-1, that's how things go on Day 1. But I would like more substance from yellowsnow's posts because as of now he seems to be in that posting a decent amount but flying under the radar, sort of position.

@yellowsnow did you know that your vote put me at L-1? And do you have any reads at this point?

And yeah, I give a slight town read to brassherald because there isn't really any reason to think otherwise at this point. Also in my very limited experience in these newbie games, a frequent Day 1 occurrence seems to be people targeting lower post counts because New players who draw scum tend to try and not assert themselves much into the game. brassherald being the IC, its fair to assume knows this, so I don't find it likely that this is the route that he would take if he were scum (i.e. most of his posts being IC related)

I actually wasn't trying to see who would jump at what I was saying - though, I suppose now that would be a bonus - I was trying to read the reactions of who I voted instead. And to see if they would respond calmly or not, and if they would say anything scummy. At the start of the game it is hard to make good cases anyway. So, I think sitting by and doing nothing would get us nowhere.

Is there anyone that stands out as more likely scum?

I'll answer this question once I'm done with some re-reading and stuff. Because there are some things that I'd like to make sure of.

[hearthstone1235]

What is backtracking?

Now if you want a decent reason for starting a wagon on Volxen how
about the fact that he's an experienced player with only 9 posts in nearly 7 pages. Much of that is low content.

VOTE: Volxen

Volxen, why the silent treatment?

Sounds like a good idea. Would probably join in if I have nothing better to do.

[hearthstone1235]

"IC_Question": What if scum plays exactly as they would if they were town? Wouldn't it be impossible to catch them?

@brass, Do you have anything to say/any reads? You haven't been generating a lot of in-game content so far, if any.

I play things close to the chest early for sure. That being said, I random voted Roo early because it was early to type, but I haven't liked his i

nteractions

too much and so I haven't moved my vote.

The super defensive response to someone asking about an L-2 wagon on me makes me uneasy.

What kind of interactions didn't you like, it implies that there is more than one interaction, although he only posted 3 posts at that time.

I also do think I might have confused Roo with someone else earlier since I did mention something about his reaction to my wagon, but I think he was actually on the other side of the conversation than what I had thought.

When did you do that? Can you elaborate more?

[hearthstone1235]

@DoubtingThomas

Assuming you were another player in the game, would you scumread Doubtingthomas?

Would be nice if you addressed this:

Doubting Thomas is asking very general questions rather than pointed ones, that seems like being active lurking. I mean, there is a difference between asking someone what they think of the gamestate and what they think of a specific slot or a specific post. I feel like we are at the point where the questions should be specific rather than general. The questions just seem too easy.

Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?

[hearthstone1235]

The vote on Roo was more or less trying to see if he could have been trying to talk to other mafia before he responded? But unfortunately the response he gave seemed genuine and not rushed.

It was a reach and I should have voiced it.

Yellow is neutral to me, I'm not picking up on anything going either direction.

Don't you find it suspicious that Yellow hasn't done that much?
Can you elaborate on the red part?

how about a yellow-saint scum team?

Why yellow-saint especially? What do you think of this possibility?

There wasn't really that much of interaction between them, except saint saying that yellow is neutral. This does give the team some credit, of being purposely avoiding each other. Though I kind of doubt it, because newbie scum players would be more likely to help each other maybe? Though a lot of players have been pushing saint so far (xwing, roo, brass, LQ). and yellow is one of the players who aren't pushing saint. I suppose it would be possible. Though the same argument would work for DT-saint and volxen-saint as well. Especially the fact that saint accidentally(?) lynched volxen, which would mean that saint was thinking of volxen at that time. So I'd give volxen-saint a bigger possibility. But all of that assuming that saint is a scum in the first place. But right now he's more of a null-leaning scum to me, I'm waiting to see how will he respond to all the questions directed to him before I decide my stance.

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

What did you think of the wagon on brass?

It would be great if you'd share what do you think of everyone so far.

[hearthstone1235]

Is there anyone that stands out as more likely scum?

Right now, I'm waiting for volsen to talk, for saint, DT and yellow to answer the questions directed to them before I figure out what to think of them. If I have any reads on them they are likely weak.

VOTE: volsen

[hearthstone1235]

Would probably put my vote/unvote when I'm done reading stuff cause reasons.

[hearthstone1235]

I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whatever

I think it is better to take stuff at logic > emotions because emotions can cloud one's judgement

*snip*

DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.

Yea, totally agree with that. Dunno about the case you made about you being very good at scum and bad at town so since you're playing bad this game therefore you're town. But I agree that you should really step your game up, starting by telling what you think of the game so far and of each player (Dunno if you have done that in the 5 following pages or not). I'll probably have more trouble reading you then because your case has a lot of wifom and meta I think. two things that I completely suck at reading. You are going to be on my radar though.

Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment

Hmm, that would make some sense.

Appreciate that you took the time and effort to answer my question.

Comments in *

green

*

I feel like Roo is trying to active lurk through day 1.

How so? Can you elaborate?

"Would probably join in if I have nothing better to do" -- what is that even supposed to mean exactly? What would be the "better" thing that would keep you from voting for me? It sounds like you don't really seem to care all that much who gets wagoned.

What is the most useful tool that we have and can only be used only once a time? Voting
I suppose you could read it as "Would probably join in if I have no better target for my vote"

Since I was still re-reading, I was wondering if I'd see anything else that would give me a better target for my vote.

I was waiting for some people to talk more so that I obtain more accurate reads for them. Saint and DT have a lot of attention on them right now, so they are pressured to talk already. But you have just been lying there in the background.

I'm a bit wary of the fact that you voted for me and at the same time said that "any reads I have are likely weak", because it comes across like you are potentially trying to give yourself an out/excuse in the event that you are on someone's wagon who gets mislynched and flips green.

In any case, L84Dnr gave his reason for voting for me. Do you have a reason of your own for voting for me, or are you just sheeping L84Dnr here?

I voted you because you haven't been posting for a while and I wanted to see more posts from you. Which is the same reason L8 voted for you. I didn't think L8's vote would be enough. Because if one player has only one vote on them. I see it a lot that they just ignore it.

You probably wouldn't be my final vote for today I think. depending on what happens next. The day is still long, we should extend it as long as possible to gain more information. (And also so that I can get better reads because I'm unsatisfied with what I have there). The reason I said "any reads I have are likely weak" is a response to Roo's question, which I decided to postpone until I finish reading everything and decide on my vote.

[hearthstone1235]

see post 206 re townslip..

brass is active and engaged..
l8 is actively scumhunting..
volxen might be town for *reasons*..

i think your brass case might be a reach..there are other players here who are way scummier (e.g. saint-yellow), and your post haven't really convinced me to change my mind about brass..i think it's also more indicative for town to want more quality over quantity in posts, shows me that he wants to leave little room for misrep and fluff and makes your points easier to absorb..

you can ignore post 205, i was only trying to illustrate to brass what i wanted to accomplish using the quote function, and if he knew a better way..

@yellow: DT has now openly claimed he's good as scum..soooo what do you think about that?
@brass: well dt did make a good point..why am i town?

[hearthstone1235]

Sorry for the above empty post, I was trying to sort quotes in different tabs and accidentally sent the wrong tab

UNVOTE: Doubting thomas

personallyi dont like this unvote

he voted me in an RVS, but then immediately posts 'unvote' to vote someone to get on a wagon?

Dunno if it was immediately. There is 8 hour gap, which means that I logged in 8 hours later. noticed that the game didn't go anywhere. decided to give it a little push. Also why didn't you notice my reason for voting volsen? and the conversation that happened later on? you should read the entire argument then give a thought.

@DT Self-meta (what you were doing in your post 186) is one of the least reliable sources of informations, even when the player is town. It's so poor that using it is frequently regarded as a scumtell.

Okay, good to know.

I would definitely use my meta on myself so I am not sure what the point of this post is. Again, seems like you are trying to twist words to make me look worse even though the self meta was necessary part of the answer to the question he asked

Hmm, I suppose you would. I actually didn't think you'd use your meta at all. My intentions were more under the lines of "If you were someone like me who doesn't necessarily know DT's meta". It appears that I was too happy with the big post to question whether the use of meta was correct or wrong or whether it was needed in the first place.

volxen might be town for *reasons*..

Wait what? Why is volxen town for reasons? that doesn't make sense, please elaborate.

[hearthstone1235]

Finally made it to the end.

xwing has already answered last question in last post

@Brass:

"IC_Question": What if scum plays exactly as they would if they were town? Wouldn't it be impossible to catch them?

@brass, Do you have anything to say/any reads? You haven't been generating a lot of in-game content so far, if any.

I play things close to the chest early for sure. That being said, I random voted Roo early because it was early to type, but I haven't liked his i

nteractions

too much and so I haven't moved my vote.

The super defensive response to someone asking about an L-2 wagon on me makes me uneasy.

What kind of interactions didn't you like, it implies that there is more than one interaction, although he only posted 3 posts at that time.

I also do think I might have confused Roo with someone else earlier since I did mention something about his reaction to my wagon, but I think he was actually on the other side of the conversation than what I had thought.

When did you do that? Can you elaborate more?

Still didn't answer those

@DT, still didn't answer those:

Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?

The following was also ignored by Saint and Yellow

The vote on Roo was more or less trying to see if he could have been trying to talk to other mafia before he responded? But unfortunately the response he gave seemed genuine and not rushed.

It was a reach and I should have voiced it.

Yellow is neutral to me, I'm not picking up on anything going either direction.

Don't you find it suspicious that Yellow hasn't done that much?
Can you elaborate on the red part?

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

What did you think of the wagon on brass?

It would be great if you'd share what do you think of everyone so far.

[hearthstone1235]

volxen started to be more active and productive so i'm withdrawing my vote because it has served its purpose UNVOTE: volxen

What troubles me about all of this is that if you are scum, everything you are doing is fake, including your reads, so it makes sense that could mess up your reads/vote like this (since it would all be fake anyways if you are scum). If you are town then you really, really botched up that entire post (141) along with your vote. So why is this more likely to be an honest mistake from town!Saint rather than a scumslip from scum!Saint?

I think this is a fine case on saint. But from what I've read from saint so far, it seems like he doesn't give a lot of importance to this game, or to scumhunting. I think. His reads seem rather rushed and he isn't really making a lot of effort. Is there's any chance this situation will improve, Saint? For me, mafia takes a loot of concentration, it takes me more than a hour each session or so. I'm not sure about other players and I might be overdoing it a bit but I still think it is hard to multi-task mafia.

[hearthstone1235]

@DT

#207, Sounds like a post I would make. so I'll be giving it some towncreds
#208, 209. I like those posts.

I also want to like xswing for being nice to me trying to catch me up with stuff I might be lacking as a newbie

Where is that?

My reaction was way out of proportion to what Brass said,

so I made myself get in the spotlight

This gives slight scummy tone.

Still can't read DT that good. as it is now, he wouldn't be my day 1 lynch.

post-edit: @brass okay, appreciate it

[hearthstone1235]

I think I'll be back to saint in a bit, I wouldn't mind him being day 1 lynch though I still want the day to be extended more, there's still more stuff to do.

@YellowSnow

First 16 posts are basically fillery with little to no substance.

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.
VOTE: roo

As mentioned, I don't like this post. Does this mean that you'd probably join the brass wagon if there's no roo wagon?
You didn't give a reason for voting roo as well.

Yes, I knew. I thought that was allowed. I put my vote on who I think is scum. I've given plenty of reads.

This time I actually looked back and noticed that he didn't make ANY reads whatsoever, before this post

Brass said something similar about not liking to take a lot of time reading/casing in the last game i played with him so I am actually leaning town for him.

don't think it's brass because scum are more likely to be wagon followers than starters in my experience.

I feel like Roo is trying to active lurk through day 1.

I think those are the only major reads from him so far. Correct me if I'm wrong, yellow.

This sounds like a good target for a vote.

[hearthstone1235]

Despite that, Yellow's reads that I mentioned in my #260 are a little unique (Roo active lurking + about Brass and time ). So he does have that.


p-edit: This is the first time I've ever heard of self-meta, so I'm not really sure of the theories surrounding it. I'm also not used to dealing with meta in general. If a player has 50 or so games under their belt then their meta wouldn't be as trustworthy, especially for faster games. (I have played more than 50 fast mafia games on another website I think, my playstyle have changed lots of times). A player with more games would have a more predictive meta, but even then they would be able to play around it. maybe, trying new strategies. Though meta can be indicative of one's character. That's the only use I have for meta so far. Including meta in the equation would make someone harder to read. It would be easier to read them without any prejudices. Self-meta seems to be even less trustworthy because it depends on the person under question. But his post have been giving me towny vibes and I find it a little hard to read it imagining that DT is scum. I think I would give it NAI or leaning-town-by-small-margin

[hearthstone1235]

Volxen, as for your referencing me calling it "unfortunate" that Roo's answer seemed genuine and unrushed,

I only called in unfortunate because my

attempt

at getting a read ended in nothing more than "Possible town."

I understand that this can be seen as a good thing, but our goal here is to figure out who is scum, so in my opinion while a town read is helpful it was not what I was hoping for in the long run, as it would have been more fortunate to get a possible scum read, at least short-term.

Volxen, what do you think of this response? the bolded part gives me slight town vibes because town is pressured to find scum.

Though I'm a little confused on what he means by long run and short-term. @Saint, can you elaborate on that a little bit?


Anyway, I'd appreciate a little more pressure on YellowSnow for now. VOTE: YellowSnow. Would like to hear his answers and reactions to what have been said. Also, @Yellow, what do you think of Saint?

[hearthstone1235]

there's something iffy about the above post.

[hearthstone1235]

What’s striking you as iffy?

I suppose it would make more sense realizing the fact that there are 2 days left for day 1 to end. But I would still like to wait for YellowSnow to write up a defense, before even asking for a roleclaim.

And, I think there's might be something else. But I still have to confirm that.

[hearthstone1235]

I'm giving intent now so we have enough time to hear from YellowSnow

How is you giving intent going to give us enough time to hear from YellowSnow?

[hearthstone1235]

Nope, I haven't had the time for it, you've avoided posting altogether for a good portion of day 1.

Hmm, would like to hear Roo's reply to this.

Like I said, I definitely have a town lean from Roo, and repeating my possible scum reads; I'm still not trusting DT and I definitely understand the wagon on Yellow, but I am hesitant to vote on him (Putting him at L-1 I believe) and

I would like to see more posts explaining some of his behavior like I've been pushed/trying to do.

What do you think of DT being a little more active during the end, does that change your read on him?

Why were you hesitant to vote on him?

bold part gives town vibes

Still no confident reads from Brass, but that's likely me being intimidated as a newer player and knowing that if he is town, he could be crucial for us later in the game.

Or, He could be scum. Your way of treating Brass's case is not going to help later in the game.

but also heavily implying he's scum reading me.

(about saint)
Can you quote the posts that imply that?

I'm worried that he's just really bad at playing town.

(about yellow)
Does any of his posts give you that impression?

I'm giving intent now so we have enough time to hear from YellowSnow, and then any time needed for any potential counterclaims/discussion.

I think it’s a little unfair to cut off the sentence in the middle there.

It is just a little habit to get straight to the point and decrease the amount of walls. I did read the other part of the sentence, so let me ask the same question again.

How is you giving intent going to give us enough time to:

1. hear from YellowSnow
2. get potential counterclaims/discussion

Sorry if I messed up how I read your sentence grammatically, I'm not that fluent in English

[hearthstone1235]

YellowSnow - lots of posts, not a lot of substance. Null/town read. Eyebrow definitely raised at not wanting to lynch the IC on day 1

I don't get why would you give him null/

town

for that, instead of null/scum or null.

[hearthstone1235]

Actually brass, what do you think of Roo's 295? I think I'll be back to your 303, but right now I can't form my thoughts about it.

[hearthstone1235]

Second, I don't see anything too bad with 295. Intent to hammer is fine at any point in my opinion, if you are confident in your read. And it's not a quickhammer which would be anti town. What are you seeing wrong with it? Maybe a little LAMIST, but I really have to overthink it to find that

Mainly that he seemed to want to push for claims. He asked for a roleclaim before YellowSnow defended himself. Though, I don't think this is a strong case because the deadline is approaching, it is unlikely that YellowSnow will not get lynched today (Which could change depending on his claim though) and because of:

By giving intent now I am trying to get YellowSnow to respond to the case against him. I have no problem lynching YellowSnow given the case against him. I'm trying to avoid a hypothetical situation where there is no intent given yet and we just wait around for YellowSnow to answer any of the questions directed towards him. Then someone gives intent with lets just say less than 24 hours left. Maybe YellowSnow would then claim a PR with 4 hours left, and there wouldn't be enough time for a potential counterclaim or discussion, and the end of the day ends in a bit of chaos/confusion.

Which makes sense.

I'm not exactly sure what you want me to respond to here. I will admit, as I said in 122 that I had a couple busy days at work, and only was able to check in about once a day. I think if you look at my ISO that "avoiding posting altogether" is a bit of an overstatement. And I think as the game has progressed I have contributed substantive thoughts to the game. If YellowSnow still disagrees, there really isn't anything I can do about that.

I was trying to see your reaction to his post.

[hearthstone1235]

It seems unlikely, because it is extremely doubtful that it is possible to get a wagon on L8 right now. However the same can't be said for Saint. So if YellowSnow is trying to get not lynched, then the only real target here would be Saint. you're saying that the real target is L8.

[hearthstone1235]

Nope, I haven't had the time for it, you've avoided posting altogether for a good portion of day 1.

I'm not exactly sure what you want me to respond to here. I will admit, as I said in 122 that

I had a couple busy days at work, and only was able to check in about once a day.

I think if you look at my ISO that "avoiding posting altogether" is a bit of an overstatement. And I think as the game has progressed I have contributed substantive thoughts to the game. If YellowSnow still disagrees, there really isn't anything I can do about that.

What makes you think that Roo didn't have time to post as well? Why the hypocritical thinking? Also you didn't respond to this. You didn't respond to my earlier question about how is Roo active lurking. If you want to make a case then surround it with posts. You can't just put on a case without evidence and say just ISO. This looks like easy way for scum to not explain their reads. Because they're fake.

I don't care if I'm lynched. I'm pretty sure there is scum on my wagon so town wins either way. I'll get a reads list done tomorrow.

This doesn't make sense at all. First, you say you don't care if you're lynched then later on you try to get yourself unlynched.
Second, What makes you think that if we lynch you and you're town, we'll win? I don't find this game as obvious to me as you do. Your cases on Roo and L8 weren't that strong.
Third, why are you so sure that there is scum on your wagon?

I'm being scumread because I'm busy and don't have the same amount of time everyone else has evidently. Also I was signed up for a game I didn't intend to sign up for.

If you did sign up for a game you didn't intend to sign up for, why didn't you ask for a replacement from the start of day 1? Why didn't you tell us earlier if you weren't going to have enough time to contribute? I think you were quite happy with the amount of town-leans you got on you early game.

L84Dnr - Scum for his spot on the Roo wagon and immediately voting me instead of asking questions.

Wow. I think that you just fashioned yourself a noose.

VOTE: Yellow Snow

Please explain why you think that anybody would unvote you for refusing to answer a question

. Pretty please with sugar and cream on top.

The second reason is just. wrong. He attached the question to the vote, which is a standard way to put pressure on someone. If anything he is trying to sort out this case.
And you really can't scumread someone for the sole reason of their position on someone's wagon. Especially if you don't provide any posts/reasons that show why is that scummy.

DoubtingThomas - Looks town although he could be using large posts as a scum tactic.

Why does he look town to you then?

Roo - Scum for active lurking and not really sorting.

I get the case for the "not really sorting" part, Can you elaborate on that?, If you're seeing something we aren't then you should provide reasons to explain it.

Comments in

this color

SInce the roo wagon deflated lets...

VOTE: L84Dnr

Why vote L84Dnr instead of roo? both have 0 votes on them. Do you really think it is likely to get a wagon on L8 now? Notice that we have to lynch someone today.

I would be willing to switch to saint for the purposes of avoiding a town lynch(me) but I really think l8 is scum.

Why? Your reasons for lynching l8 aren't that good. Though I still have to read the argument between you two.

[hearthstone1235]

So evidently anything that you declare "standard practice" isn't scummy. That's not much of an answer. You seem like a very reactive player and that oozes scum.

You're not actively sorting just trying to blend in with others who are sorting.

Tbe bolded part is a case that ANYONE can make up. And to avoid explaining it, you can just say "ISO". And when someone disagrees: "You're misrepping me". Sounds familiar?

Okay, seriously, if you're town. You should elaborate more on your cases. If someone is not actively sorting you should link the posts that show that.

[hearthstone1235]

Inb4 nobody shows up and we get a nl