Newbie 1913 - game over!!
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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In post 76, volxen wrote:
What you are referring to in the bolded portion amounts to a policy lynch, which in general is anti-town unless there is a really, really good reason for doing so.In post 47, YellowSnow wrote:I find it unlikely that players would admit to liking to play scum.Being a dangerous scum player would increase the likelyhood of being lynched on that basis alone.
Misrep. Having an increased chance of being lynched because you're a dangerous scum player (dubious) is not the same as a policy lynch.
Agreed with all the rest though. Just because youLynching someone solely on the basis that, if they are scum in the current ongoing game they are going to be really dangerous (based on their performance in previous scumgames), even if they haven't been scummy in the current ongoing game, is incredibly anti-town because they would be lynched over fear of how good they are at scum rather than because people are actually scumreading them in the current ongoing game. That's definitely not how Mafia is intended to be played, and over the long term policy lynching someone just because they are good at scum will lead to mislynches more often than not because everyone rolls town much more frequently than they do scum.enjoyplaying scum doesn't even mean that you're good at it and is no indicator of what the randomizer gave you this game. NAI.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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Decent arguments against them, but what about the Pros?In post 90, brassherald wrote:Why I don't like readlists
There's two reasons here. First, they are extremely easy to fake. Take people's names, assemble them into a list that orders them, and provide no real information. I don't find it compelling to just have a list without reasons. Even with reasons, it would not be, to me, immediately clear why Gamma would be scum and ceejay is not as strong of a read.
Second, they just are not very useful to me, personally. My reads are more abstract, in general, ranking them is pretty tough, and I don't even like locking anyone as town ever. That's just how I play the game. Once I put something into a read list like this, I am less likely to question my reads later on. It's just the way I work. I would need the read list in literally every post with updates as things happen to realistically help me with my game, and no one has time for that.
- They can be easy to fake, especially if you just have a list without any reasons, but unless you're talented later day readlists with reasons get trickier. Now scum has to say, "Brass looks scummy because, err.. umm... reasons..." It's one more thing that scum has to lie about and one more place to look for tells.
- It helps keep town informed about your suspicions if you get mislynched or NKed. You don't take it to the grave with you.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Not a lot to go on yet. Still early in Day 1.In post 97, xwing wrote:
hey l8, what do you think of the rest of the player list?In post 92, L84Dnr wrote:Roo, you're being unusually quiet. Perhaps a little pressure on your wagon will get your tongue wagging.
VOTE: Roo
- Roo's still being pretty quiet despite having two votes on him. He also has a comfy spot on Brass' wagon.
- You haven't posted a whole lot either. And you have a similarly comfy position on Brass' wagon.
- DT has been more active but much of that has been fluff.
- Volxen had an odd reaction to YellowSnow's suggestion that claiming to enjoy playing scum might make you more likely to be scum. YellowSnow's comment clearly wasn't a policy lynch, though I agree that it's a poor reason to suspect that somebody might be scum.
- YellowSnow has been pretty vocal and visible in his argument, so weak town lean.
- Brass has also been visible, but that's his job as IC regardless of alignment.
- Null on Heartstone and Saint.
All weak reads at the moment.
The real problem is that we have too many singleton wagons. No pressure from those.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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I'd like to hear from Roo first. I think that he's at L-1 now, so nobody else vote him.In post 107, xwing wrote:
join me on saint, then?In post 105, L84Dnr wrote:The real problem is that we have too many singleton wagons. No pressure from those
VOTE: saint-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Why so quiet?In post 113, Roo wrote:In post 92, L84Dnr wrote:Roo, you're being unusually quiet. Perhaps a little pressure on your wagon will get your tongue wagging.
VOTE: RooIn post 106, SaintAngelDFE wrote:
I'm enjoying the game quite a bit, actually! Most of my experience is with town of salem, but I was referred here by a friend that used to play on these forums.In post 101, brassherald wrote:
What are your thoughts on the game so far?In post 57, SaintAngelDFE wrote:I figured, just thought it was an amusing moment to read "quack" after what you said.
I'm definitely starting to agree with the push on Roo, he hasn't said anything as of late.
VOTE: Roo
If the biggest knock against me right now is that I haven't posted much today, I apologize. I did answer the questions directed at me.In post 108, YellowSnow wrote:between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.
VOTE: roo
If anyone has anything in particular they'd like me to address, I'd be happy to-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Just curious, why are you voting Saint?In post 107, xwing wrote:
join me on saint, then?In post 105, L84Dnr wrote:The real problem is that we have too many singleton wagons. No pressure from those
VOTE: saint-
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L84Dnr Goon
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By the same reasoning he could help scum win. He's here to help all of us regardless of alignment.In post 116, YellowSnow wrote:The IC could help other new players perform better and help town win the game.
That said, I agree that the IC probably shouldn't be lynched on Day 1, but neither should he be given a free pass.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Fair enough. RL happens.In post 122, Roo wrote:
Just a busy day yesterday and today at work. Didn't have a chance to check the site since I posted yesterday at lunchIn post 117, L84Dnr wrote:
Why so quiet?In post 113, Roo wrote:In post 92, L84Dnr wrote:Roo, you're being unusually quiet. Perhaps a little pressure on your wagon will get your tongue wagging.
VOTE: RooIn post 106, SaintAngelDFE wrote:
I'm enjoying the game quite a bit, actually! Most of my experience is with town of salem, but I was referred here by a friend that used to play on these forums.In post 101, brassherald wrote:
What are your thoughts on the game so far?In post 57, SaintAngelDFE wrote:I figured, just thought it was an amusing moment to read "quack" after what you said.
I'm definitely starting to agree with the push on Roo, he hasn't said anything as of late.
VOTE: Roo
If the biggest knock against me right now is that I haven't posted much today, I apologize. I did answer the questions directed at me.In post 108, YellowSnow wrote:between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.
VOTE: roo
If anyone has anything in particular they'd like me to address, I'd be happy to
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L84Dnr Goon
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Same here. I'm used to a 24 hour day cycle, which is much faster paced. Posting will help you with that.In post 125, SaintAngelDFE wrote:
For the most part I'm trying to figure out how forum mafia works honestly, as stated before I've only really played Town of Salem which is much more fast paced than this, trying to learn as I go. I'm not trying to lead for any lynching based on the fact that I'm not sure how well any scum reading I might be able to pick up would actually be.In post 120, xwing wrote:@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..
Right now I have to agree with xwing.
VOTE: SaintAngelDFE
So tell us, what are your reads? On Day 1 they're always weak, so no worries there.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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I have a tough time spotting scum on Day 1, much less the entire team.In post 130, xwing wrote:how about a yellow-saint scum team?
YellowSnow strikes me as too bold for n00bscum. They tend to be more withdrawn and get lynched for trying to fly under the radar. He's made a lot of noise. Granted, it isn't about much, but that's exactly the point. He's making a whole lot of noise for no gain as scum. Could be a good act but I'm doubting it. I'm giving him a slight town lean because of that.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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That was it. I agree with your reasoning completely up to that point. There just seems to be a huge gulf between suggesting that something somebody said might be scummy a bit scummy and a policy lynch. Seemed out of place to me but like I said, these are weak Day 1 reads, so I'm reaching.In post 139, volxen wrote:Is the only thing that you found "odd" about my reaction the fact that I used the phrase "policy lynch"?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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In post 141, SaintAngelDFE wrote: I don't have too much of a read on Volxen based on similar issues as Brass, however I feel a little more sure that he's town.
Saint, you really need to explain voting one of your town leans.My suspects right now are between Volxen and DT. VOTE: volxen-
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L84Dnr Goon
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If Roo is town that holds up reasonably well. If Roo is scum then the chances of his partner being elsewhere are better.In post 147, xwing wrote:so roo being placed at L-1, means there is *likely to be at least one scum* on his wagon..(not an exact science, but the concept holds)-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Yup, it's just one tool, not the toolbox.In post 152, xwing wrote:
yup..take this with a grain of salt though, as in my last completed game, we got burned because of this thinking (it turned out a wagon we were analyzing was all-town)..In post 150, L84Dnr wrote:
If Roo is town that holds up reasonably well. If Roo is scum then the chances of his partner being elsewhere are better.In post 147, xwing wrote:so roo being placed at L-1, means there is *likely to be at least one scum* on his wagon..(not an exact science, but the concept holds)-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Could be, but I'll be interested in seeing your responses to xwing's questions.In post 163, SaintAngelDFE wrote: My bad for the late response to this one - long day at work. I had been typing this in between a couple of meetings and must have honestly gotten mixed up while reading it back through, no real excuse as to why I added Volxen or voted him.
I need to start re-reading what I type, especially if I'm going to try and post while at work apparently. My only "scum read" is on DT honestly, but I'm not completely sure about Yellow or Brass still.
VOTE: DoubtingThomas
UNVOTE:-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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I think it's pretty quiet in here. 10 people should have generated more posts than this in 5ish days. Clearly not all of them are scum, so we're looking at a mix of lurking scum, n00bish shyness, and RL commitments. Hard to say which are which yet. Waiting to hear from Volxen because he doesn't have the excuse of being a n00b.In post 171, DoubtingThomas wrote:L84, what are your thoughts
@BrassHerald Is this level of not posting normal for a newbie game or do we have an unusually high number of mimes playing?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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It isn't just last night. You've been quiet all game.In post 194, volxen wrote:
I wasn't able to post last night due to IRL reasons, but I'm back now. I will be posting more later after I re-read the last several pages,In post 170, L84Dnr wrote:Now if you want a decent reason for starting a wagon on Volxen how about the fact that he's an experienced player with only 9 posts in nearly 7 pages. Much of that is low content.
VOTE: Volxen
Volxen, why the silent treatment?
I didn't. I already voted Roo for low post count. It's just more obvious as SE. With n00bs you get a whole variety of behaviours and trying to deconvolve the scumsign and the n00bsign is a right royal pain.but why single me out specifically because I am an SE?
Yup. I'd just be waffling more over whether it was due to n00bishness or not.If I had the same number of posts in 7 pages as a newbie slot, would that still have stuck out to you?
Not precisely that I want you to post more, or more content. More that I want to know why you haven't. You may have an excellent reason for not having posted more. I just don't know what it is.You voted for me because you presumably want me to post more and want to see more content from me.
Sorry, I thought that in context this would be understood to mean more specifically, "Why haven't you been more active?"But you just asked me very generally, "why the silent treatment?". Do you have any specific questions for me?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Scum tend to like to try and avoid the spotlight because they know that they're targets. That means that theyIn post 189, DoubtingThomas wrote:
what do you mean by the wagon position? can you explain?In post 188, YellowSnow wrote:For the record I think it's possible there may be scum on Roo's wagon. It's not me, but if had to guess I'd say l84 or Saint based on wagon position. I still think Roo is more likely scum than either though.tendto try and avoid prominent positions on wagons like the front or the hammer. People who start wagons and hammer wagons get asked questions that scum want to avoid answering, so you commonly find them mid-wagon. Or off the wagon completely. Check the wiki entry on Vote Count Analysis. That said, smart scum know that mid-wagon looks suspicious, so this can get very meta very quickly.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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@DT Self-meta (what you were doing in your post 186) is one of the least reliable sources of informations, even when the player is town. It's so poor that using it is frequently regarded as a scumtell.
And your reaction is way out of proportion to what BrassHerald said, so have a Finger-o-Suspiscion on me.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Because your over-reaction was involuntary. Just because you don't want to be in the spotlight doesn't mean that you're good at staying out of it.In post 216, DoubtingThomas wrote:In post 199, L84Dnr wrote:Scum tend to like to try and avoid the spotlight because they know that they're targets.
Question,In post 212, L84Dnr wrote: And your reaction is way out of proportion to what BrassHerald said, so have a Finger-o-Suspiscion on me.
You believe scum tend to avoide the spotlight
My reaction was way out of proportion to what Brass said, so I made myself get in the spotlight
Why do you scum read me for that again?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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I'm not seeing it. Can you explain?In post 197, xwing wrote: i think DT may be town by virtue of townslip..-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Why do you figure it's more likely a scumslip than a simple mistake?In post 221, Roo wrote:
I think this really sums up what happened well. And before a response is given, it makes me think that it is more likely than not that this was a scumslip.In post 218, volxen wrote:What troubles me about all of this is that if you are scum, everything you are doing is fake, including your reads, so it makes sense that could mess up your reads/vote like this (since it would all be fake anyways if you are scum). If you are town then you really, really botched up that entire post (141) along with your vote. So why is this more likely to be an honest mistake from town!Saint rather than a scumslip from scum!Saint?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Wow. I think that you just fashioned yourself a noose.In post 266, YellowSnow wrote:I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.
VOTE: Yellow Snow
Please explain why you think that anybody would unvote you for refusing to answer a question. Pretty please with sugar and cream on top.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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@Volxen Thanks for posting those links to Newbie 1906 and 1910.
@Brass What's the rules on posting/quoting/linking material from previous games for meta?
I'm seeing some startling contrast between his post 266 and the ISO that Volxen linked from Newbie 1906.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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YellowSnow in Newbie 1906:
In post 42, YellowSnow wrote:The correct answer is anything you do in the game may require explanation.
YellowSnow in this game:In post 63, YellowSnow wrote:Your previous record only gets you so far.
This isn't poker. Town should be more transparent. Scum are expected not to be.
So aside from being ferociously anti-town, this response is completely at odds with his town playstyle. I'd be content to lynch him.In post 266, YellowSnow wrote:I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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This isn't simply anti-town, it's anti-wincon no matter what you are. If you don't play to your wincon then it spoils the game for everybody. There's no fun in lynching a pair of obvscum or outwitting thunderingly stoopid townies. It's like doing those 25 piece puzzles they make for 4 year-olds.In post 312, YellowSnow wrote:I don't care if I'm lynched. I'm pretty sure there is scum on my wagon so town wins either way. I'll get a reads list done tomorrow.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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Well, I no longer feel like an underachiever for not being scumread. Why haven't you voted me though?In post 332, YellowSnow wrote:L84Dnr - Scum for his spot on the Roo wagon and immediately voting me instead of asking questions.
As it happens, my place on Roo's wagon was dictated by the fact that I was subbed in part way through the game. By that point most players had a vote on them so of course I'm not going to be lead on a wagon. While you're on it, why is my vote on Roo any scummier than Saint's vote or yours? Your vote put him at L-1 after all.
There's nothing scummy about voting you before asking questions. That's just pressure to make you answer. Standard practice.
Thanks for the reads though! I'm sure there are some lovely associative tells in there.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Yes! I am no longer an underachiever for not having attracted a single vote!
You have immediately voted me without asking any questions. By your reasoning you must be scum.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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It has nothing to do with anything that I declared. It's just part of the game. If it isn't then this answer will look mind-bogglingly strange to everybody else playing and I'll get wagonned. Simple as that. It isn't as if my vote harmed you in any way. If you think otherwise then please explain why you should ask questions before voting.In post 336, YellowSnow wrote:So evidently anything that you declare "standard practice" isn't scummy. That's not much of an answer.
And now you're changing your reason for scum-reading me. That suggests that your reasons are made up. Would you care to provide some evidence for your claims?You seem like a very reactive player and that oozes scum. You're not actively sorting just trying to blend in with others who are sorting.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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And how did my vote harm the team?In post 341, YellowSnow wrote:The fact that you are looking at votes as harming a player rather than the team as a whole is concerning.l
It isn't expansion if your old reason has been exposed as bunk and it's an entirely new reason.Expanding on my reasons for scum reading you does not at all mean my reasons are made up.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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And how exactly have I misrepresented you?In post 354, YellowSnow wrote:He's not sorting he's just trying to discredit me with misreps.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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BlurryX, if you missed it, YellowSnow is at L-1, so don't vote him. Roo has notified him of an intent to hammer, but we're holding off to let him have his say.
Could you give us a read on these posts from him?
In post 266, YellowSnow wrote:I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.In post 316, YellowSnow wrote:Because I don't defend myself against awful wagons.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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No, I'm asking you a simple question. If I've misrepresented what you're saying then you ought to be able to quote the post. It's called evidence.In post 356, YellowSnow wrote:And now he's playing dumb.-
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I can see that without the ISO. I mean that you ought to be able to quote the post where I supposedly misrepped you. Where's the evidence for this misrep?In post 359, YellowSnow wrote:I did, iso me and you can see where I said you misrepped me.
And once again you shift the goalposts for why I'm supposedly scummy.You're focusing on selective posts you think will incriminate me rather than looking at my whole body of work because you know you're scum and I'm town.
Yes, I'm focussing on your obviously scummy posts. But since you want a full rundown anybody who cares to check can see that your ISO reveals a litany of low-content one-liners and a pair of RVS votes. The only serious reads and vote that you've made came after Roo threatened to hammer you. And you say I'm not trying to sort!-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Granted. I'm concerned that he might be town and just really bad at it.In post 361, BlurryX wrote:
Antitown for sure. Antitown != scum though. Also, no intention for me to hammer as of yet. We will see how it looks in 24 hours.In post 357, L84Dnr wrote:BlurryX, if you missed it, YellowSnow is at L-1, so don't vote him. Roo has notified him of an intent to hammer, but we're holding off to let him have his say.
Could you give us a read on these posts from him?
In post 266, YellowSnow wrote:I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.In post 316, YellowSnow wrote:Because I don't defend myself against awful wagons.
That said, Volxen posted links to his ISO from a few games back when he was town and it's a night and day contrast.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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There aren't any games where YellowSnow has played scum that I'm aware of, but the two where he played town are a pretty sharp contrast. Previously when town he was big on other people explaining themselves and being transparent. That's a complete 180 from his current play.
He's currently my best candidate for lynch. If he's a mislynch then at least he's an anti-town player mislynched.-
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It's possible, but I'm not going to start looking for teams until we've got one scum confirmed.
The simpler explanation here is that YellowSnow's targeting of me is just ill-conceived OMGUS. He might have had a chance diverting us onto Saint if he hadn't made me the focus of his attention.
Not sure what to think of Saint. Could be scum but could be n00btown.
We're 12 hours from end of Day 1, so we should either agree on a new target or hammer YellowSnow.-
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From the last vote count by The Worst
I don't see what a claim would be worth at this point. Anybody with half a wit can fake claim given the number of possible roles.In post 360, the worst wrote: day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-01-30 14:00:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.-
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A bit odd that both the SE's and the IC made it through the night. I had expected scum to take out one of the more seasoned players.In post 417, xwing wrote:im surprised with the hearth NK..i would think it was a lucky shot..
I checked Hearth's ISO but didn't see any obvious breadcrumbs that scum might have picked up on. I might have missed it in one of his walls though.-
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Ugg. These short wagons are a pain. I really prefer plurality voting over hammered votes.
UNVOTE:
I'm concerned by the NK. If one of the experienced players is scum then leaving the other two alive for cover makes sense.
VOTE: Volxen
Volxen, your ISO is thin with just 27 posts in 11 days. You placed all of a single vote during Day 1 and that was an RVS vote that you parked on YellowSnow in post 17 and left there. That'd be lurky for a n00b and as an SE I'm sure you know how to scum hunt better than that. Can you explain this behaviour?-
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There wasn't anybody he really mixed it up with. That sort of behaviour tends to be TvT tunnelling anyway.In post 427, SaintAngelDFE wrote:Was there anybody that Hearth was particularly suspecting? I didn't notice anything specifically aimed at anyone until the wagon on Yellow, but I'll be rereading again just in case, not saying they're scum it's just something I want to look back on.-
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Voting people puts pressure on them and helps with VCA. Sure, mark YellowSnow as lynchable for later, but I'd be moving my vote around in the meanwhile to keep the scum hopping. I can come back to him toward the end of day.In post 430, volxen wrote:
I voted for Yellowsnow during RVS, and then he became my top suspect later on in the day after I cased him, so there was no reason for me to move my vote around at that point. I did come close to voting for Saint at one point, but as I pointed out in some of my posts, he said things that were giving me newb!town vibes, which was not the case with YellowSnow. I had (and still have) suspicions about the DT/BlurryX slot, but Yellowsnow was the person I suspected the most on day one. And while I did not move my vote around, I engaged a lot with people on day one, so why immediately latch onto the fact that I didn't move my vote around? And why directly tie that to scumhunting? I don’t have to move my vote around to keep up with scumhunting.In post 428, L84Dnr wrote:Ugg. These short wagons are a pain. I really prefer plurality voting over hammered votes.
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I'm concerned by the NK. If one of the experienced players is scum then leaving the other two alive for cover makes sense.
VOTE: Volxen
Volxen, your ISO is thin with just 27 posts in 11 days. You placed all of a single vote during Day 1 and that was an RVS vote that you parked on YellowSnow in post 17 and left there. That'd be lurky for a n00b and as an SE I'm sure you know how to scum hunt better than that. Can you explain this behaviour?
It's one factor. Combined with your stationary vote it looks suspicious. Granted, your posts weren't fluff or I'd be more suspicious.And I often times will have a smaller number of posts with more content (in some cases "wallposts"), rather than the "typical" way of playing this game, which is to have a lot of shorter posts. I feel I had a decent amount of content for day one, even if my post count wasn't high. I'm not understanding why post count in and of itself is so important to you, but it apparently is, so perhaps you can explain why?
It makes it stand out more. N00bs can be lurky for a variety of reasons like not understanding what they're doing or being shy. You don't suffer from those.Interesting how you have put your vote on me once again for the same reason that you did on day one: my post count in relation to the fact that I am an SE.
I don't believe that I ever said that, which makes this a curious misrep.In addition to that, you seem to be suggesting that the only possible explanation for Hearth’s nightkill is that SE(s) and/or IC have to be scum because scum wants to hide behind other experienced players. Why is that the only possible explanation?
Or any of a number of other reasons that we haven't even considered. Only the scum know.As I see it Hearth’s nightkill was either 1) to generate WIFOM/confusion or 2) because scum found something in Hearth’s ISO that indicated to them that he was the doctor, or at least that he was likely to be a town power role.
All true. I have no quibble with your reasoning.Other than expressing concerns that YellowSnow "might just be bad town", you didn't disagree with or question the case I presented against YellowSnow on day one; in fact you even extended my case by quoting posts from his Newbie 1906 game to show how he was being different in this game (refusing to answer questions) compared to Newbie 1906 (talking about the importance of being transparent as town). You fully supported my case and committed to pushing Yellowsnow.
I'm not certain that's true. I'll grant you that it's unlikely that they weren't both on it. But scum like letting town lynch town and not taking the blame for the mislynch, so they could have both been off of it. Xwing looks pretty town, which would leave Saint and Blurry.So if there was scum on YellowSnow's wagon -- and it is very likely that there was at least one scum on his wagon
I don't believe that I ever said you were.why am I the most likely person to be that on-wagon scum?
Not at the moment.Do you have reasons for scumreading me that go beyond 1) me not moving my vote around on day one and 2) my post count on day one?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Here's the final vote count for Day 1. I've coloured in known townies ingreenfor reference.
If anything, Volxen has understated the danger of having both scum on that wagon. Since at least two of the living players on that wagon must be town they can eliminate themselves from the list of possibilities. That would leave two town players with a 2 in 3 chance of hitting a scum with nothing better than a shot in the dark.
On the other hand, there are a couple of safe wagons that won't lead to a lynch where scum could lodge a vote but not take any blame for the mislynch.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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I was going to give Blurry a bit of time to post before getting into this, but since Volxen has started down this road:
Look at vote count 1.18 from the POV forBlurrytown:
OK, perhaps you'd rather not hammer YelowSnow just yet, but you could take Saint, your prime scum read, to L-1 and create a competing wagon. Several of us could have been persuaded to lynch Saint instead.
Now look at it from the PoV ofBlurryscum:
What's a poor scum to do? Hammer a townie or put Saint at L-1? Try and cobble together a reason for a new wagon?
And since I'm reading Saint as moderately scummy right now, let's make a further assumption:
So we have a distancing vote by Saint on Blurry/DT, and poor Blurry not wanting to put his partner at L-1 because he won't even get any town cred for the bus. We do have some distancing by Blurry on Saint by way of being his top scum read but no vote.
Granted, there are a fair number of assumptions going into that, but Saint and Blurry are in my scum pile right now so this makes a fair bit of sense of their actions. Unless there are further developments, which there's plenty of time for, I'm content to lynch Saint at the end of day. If he flips red than Blurry's lack of Day 1 vote becomes significantly more meaningful.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Saint could have easily hopped onto the YellowSnow wagon before he reached L-1 but after he started getting anti-town. That's what I did.In post 439, volxen wrote:In Saint's defense though, Yellowsnow got up to L-1 after Brass voted for him, so the soonest Saint could have voted for Yellowsnow was at the end of the deadline, but Roo had already given intent to hammer Yellow in any case.
Which will make for some very tough explaining for Blurry if Saint flips red.Contrast that with BlurryX, who was scumreading one of the people being wagoned (Saint) and townreading the other (Yellowsnow), and yet didn't vote at all. Whereas Saint arguably has a valid reason for not being on a major wagon with multiple voters (because there was simply no wagon he could join), BlurryX does not have a valid reason for not voting for his scumread (Saint).
I'd prefer to judge Blurry for his own actions. Hard to make him answer for another player's misdeeds. DT dropped out, so his lack of contribution may simply indicate lack of interest.So BluryX has a lot of scum equity, especially when factoring in DT's content as well.
Quite possibly not. It just makes sense of my best reads and of their voting behaviour. One of many possible scenarios though.But I don't think it's all that likely that BlurryX and Saint are scum together.
I've seen it under similar circumstances. A n00b townie does something foolishly anti-town toward end of day and town piles on so fast that scum is left without any good positions on the wagon. They're left with a suspicious "Me too!" vote.First, it's just very rare for a townie to get mislynched with no scum being on the wagon. Especially on day one where five votes are needed to pull off a lynch -- that would imply that at least 5/6 (~83.33%) of Yellowsnow's fellow townies all agreed that he was scum.
Also, look at YellowSnow's final wagon. Hearth is NKed town and you know what your alignment is. Do the remaining 3 players give you any scum vibes?
We should revisit those if Saint flips green.Second, there was this dynamic on day one where multiple people seemed to be OK with lynching either Yellowsnow or Saint if it came down to it, which makes me think both could be town here -- interchangeable mislynches from scum's POV.
Anything in particular?Third, Saint did give off newb!town vibes on day one that I don't think he could easily fake on his own without some serious coaching/help from a more experienced scumbuddy.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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A few notes to take away from that:
- Our IC and SE's aren't big on voting, with Brass (3 votes), Xwing (2 votes) and Volxen (1 vote). Is this standard play so that the inexperienced players take the initiative?
- Aside from his RVS vote, both of Brass' votes were in very safe spots.
- DT/Blurry's vote record is very slim, managing to vote Brass twice before Blurry took over and unvoted.
- Hearth voted a lot. Perhaps this is what got him NKed. We'll have to ask scum when the game ends.-
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L84Dnr Goon
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Different play styles then. I prefer to keep my vote moving, partly because it encourages the people voted to talk and partly because it's informative to see who votes with me.In post 444, volxen wrote:"Standard play" for me is to vote for someone during RVS, and then move my vote when I have a serious scumread on someone. In this case, it just worked out that the person I had my RVS vote on (Yellowsnow) ended up being my top scumread at the end of day one, so I didn't move my vote onto someone else.
I guess this is just a playstyle thing for you, but in my experience, especially post RVS, most people don't vote for someone just because they want to question them or whatever. Usually after RVS has ended, when people place a vote for someone it's because they are scumreading that person. Especially if it's day two and beyond. This is why I asked you earlier, "Why do you think I am the most likely scum on Yellow's wagon", because you immediately voted for me after Saint posted and you unvoted him. I assumed your vote for me was you saying, "You're my top scumread Volxen", because that is usually what a vote means at this stage of the game.
I also work the opposite direction from you. I tend to vote my lower scum reads earlier to try and clear them and narrow the scum pool.
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L84Dnr Goon
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I could be read as typical scum hesitancy to vote, especially if Saint is his partner.In post 446, Roo wrote:Blurry's reading of the Saint situation feels scummy. Saying that Saint would have been the better choice but still calling it "a hasty switch" and ending with the qualifier about new players just doesn't sit right with me.
Blurry easily could've put a vote on Saint who he called his biggest scumread on Day 1, I agree with Volxen that he has no valid reason not to have voted that way. Blurry says we can sort that out today, but it maybe could've been sorted out more thoroughly already had Blurry voted for Saint on Day 1.
VOTE: BlurryX
Blurry's been reluctant to say much. Let's put some real pressure on.
VOTE: Blurry
Blurry is now at L-1, so nobody else vote him.
Blurry, would you care to explain why you've been so hesitant?-
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L84Dnr Goon
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L84Dnr Goon
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