Newbie 1917 - Game Over

[Screamingnoodle]

Well, then.. VOTE: chennisden returning the favor.

Confirmed roles and all..

[Screamingnoodle]

Well... No better way to start a fun game than for everyone to start arguments over seemingly meaningless information, or no information at all.

My 2 cents, voting is always a good way of getting people to talk. Dissecting why someone thinks another is scummie at this point in the game, is kind of silly. At the same time, actions speak volumes so watching closely is key, which I'm really keen to do.

I have never played on MafiaScum before, however I'm no stranger to Mafia and used to play on another forum years ago. It's been a few years since I've played so I'm re-introducing myself to the gameplay. That's a little about myself. Can't wait to get to know you all better.

[Screamingnoodle]

I'm a her. I've just been mainly reading what everyone has been saying. Mainly because I am not used to the mechanics that you all have been discussing.

[Screamingnoodle]

Not really sure what else to say to be honest...
Naturally, anyone posting in the spotlight become some kind of target or cast of suspicion. So early on, not sure where to throw my vote truly in as the first lynch usually is a townie in my expirience. I don't have a clear grasp at who I think is scum at this point...

[Screamingnoodle]

Though, I wont be changing my vote unless I have a reason to believe the person is not for team town.

[Screamingnoodle]

@screaming wait did you just OMGUS me

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

CsBlastoise is Town Lean for trying not to push town too hard at the beginning.

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

@Screaming an OMGUS is usually indicative of scum, though I won't scumread you off of that.

I have no idea what that means. I simply voted for you, as you voted for me when all I did was show up?
Haha Is that what that means?

[Screamingnoodle]

UNVOTE: Chan

In kind, returning the favor. Lol

But still no idea who to vote for. Looks like we are leaning TTTT, though. Idk

[Screamingnoodle]

Where is muh anyways? I hope they are still around. Not engaging at all to me is a huge red flag.

[Screamingnoodle]

Same goes for SaintAngel

[Screamingnoodle]

Ninja Edits:
@Screaming RE Post 157: Mod said Saint already asked for replacement.

Ahh, I missed that. I see Muh requested replacement too. Regardless, I hope the spots are filled soon. Kind of annoying...

Thoughts:
I feel like some of you know this game TOO well to be newbs. It's showing and intimidating. Half my day is spent reading back and forth and we still have virtually no information to go on! I feel like a lynch is really need to start telling what is what and where is where.
I'm a little rusty but used to play forum Mafia/werewolf for several years. You guys are coming up to conclusions out of thin air. Which, such is usually the case for day 1. We really need more of a consensus on who the first lynch should be.

These are my thoughts so far:
Scum leaning: TTTT, GuiltyLion, and chennisden. In fact, the accusations going back and forth may actually be them working together to up front prove they are not scum and last in the game longer.
Null: Thespio and pretty much everyone else. I don't know why Thespio but... it's just a feeling... may not even been substantiated.

I'm going back to the town bar, having some town scotch, and dancing on town tables.

[Screamingnoodle]

@screaming woah please don't advocate for a lynch way before deadline

Dont get me wrong, I am an advocate for lynching day 1. I never said anything about timeline.

[Screamingnoodle]

Alsochen, that is a cute misdirection.

[Screamingnoodle]

Scum leaning: TTTT, GuiltyLion, and chennisden. In fact, the accusations going back and forth may actually be them working together to up front prove they are not scum and last in the game longer.
Null: Thespio and pretty much everyone else. I don't know why Thespio but... it's just a feeling... may not even been substantiated.

these reads concern me

why would TTTT or myself be scum with chennisden? I don't see why you'd think we'd open with a hardcore distancing gambit like that. And given that at least one of us three has to be town, that should make you question the validity of such a "working together" narrative from the get-go, because either way you slice it (either TTTT or myself being scum with chendennis) means there's at least one townie doing the behavior that you're casting as scummy (accusing/interacting with the other).

I can show you many past scumgames of me treating my newbie scum partners with kiddie gloves, especially on D1 since I don't like unnecessary attention on them until/unless I'm confident they can handle it.

Obviously, not all three I named are scum... I'm just saying... in my opinion and with how I've interpreted all the back and forth, these are my thoughts.
(Which in a previous post, TTTT is encouraging the newbies speak their thoughts so I did.)

I'm not sure how your last sentence helps me or your case. If two SE's are named scum (which I would hope not be the case in a newbie game) they

could

easily put forth the mechanic I mentioned. It's not something to discredit. I always think of all the possibilities and let my townies know too that the whole thing seemed fishy to me.
I was just surprised that right out the gate people were analyzing each other with no basis to go on. That to me is a red flag of sorts.

[Screamingnoodle]

Hi All, Sorry for the delay on me. Busy weekend. My youngest turned 5. I'm reading now and will post very soon with actual content.

[Screamingnoodle]

I'm a her. I've just been mainly reading what everyone has been saying. Mainly because I am not used to the mechanics that you all have been discussing.

which mechanics?

The mechanic of pointing fingers at each other right out the gate, in a way to gain the trust of other townies before there is any real discussion from all.
From post: viewtopic.php?p=10730685#p10730685

[Screamingnoodle]

Nothing from screaming pinged me until this. The read list here seems more likely from scum than town. That said, the post as a whole feels townie. Basically making this post as a bookmark

Spoiler: screaming post, spoiled for space

Ninja Edits:
@Screaming RE Post 157: Mod said Saint already asked for replacement.

Ahh, I missed that. I see Muh requested replacement too. Regardless, I hope the spots are filled soon. Kind of annoying...

Thoughts:
I feel like some of you know this game TOO well to be newbs. It's showing and intimidating. Half my day is spent reading back and forth and we still have virtually no information to go on! I feel like a lynch is really need to start telling what is what and where is where.
I'm a little rusty but used to play forum Mafia/werewolf for several years. You guys are coming up to conclusions out of thin air. Which, such is usually the case for day 1. We really need more of a consensus on who the first lynch should be.

These are my thoughts so far:
Scum leaning: TTTT, GuiltyLion, and chennisden. In fact, the accusations going back and forth may actually be them working together to up front prove they are not scum and last in the game longer.
Null: Thespio and pretty much everyone else. I don't know why Thespio but... it's just a feeling... may not even been substantiated.

I'm going back to the town bar, having some town scotch, and dancing on town tables.

Well, this was my first real post on my opinion of how things were going. I may not know what I'm doing. I interpret things differently and felt I had to get my opinions out there to at least get some kind of conversations going including me and what my thoughts are on everyone. Again, these were just my thoughts at the time. The content you have posted has definitely changed what I think.

[Screamingnoodle]

NotMySpamAccount - mostly null due to few posts. If I had to say, I'd say scum. what little he's posted has given no info other than "chennis is scum"
Screamingnoodle - null due to few posts, but that "we gotta lynch someone" stands out to me.
CsBlastoise - town. he's trying to sort people.
EchoVision - scumlean. weak read due to towny or scummy possible intents. he filled a slot mostly inactive. the sheeping on one hand is irresponsible, but on the other hand could be him applying pressure when he figures out stuff.
chennisden - need i say?
Thespio - town. from his early actions, he could be town as a voice of reason or he could be scum buddying. later play (such as the scumread) discards the buddying, but he could be on my wagon to mislynch.
u r a person 2 - townlean because he did the same as Echo but felt more towny.
TTTT - town. my initial thoughts were scum but your sorting is much more towny than URAP's or Echo's (especially echo.)
GuiltyLion - town. he's actually trying to pressure and sort other people

i kinda group URAP,Echo,NMSA in the same group due to similar play.

Well, we can "Not lynch", but I feel that hurts us on D1 more than anything. If we did this, we have nothing definitive to go on.

[Screamingnoodle]

if mhsmith were here he would be telling us to stop thinking and lynch nmsa and screaming

but i dont want to talk my way out of this

Why to lynch me? Please explain.

If anything, I think I've given plenty away to be screaming Town to the high heavens. I'm genuinely curious.

[Screamingnoodle]

(he could have faked that dumbtell)

sorry, she* could have faked that dumbtell

VOTE: screamingnoodle

I like this vote. She's mostly sitting on the sidelines, hasn't voted since RVS, and the "conspiracy theory" idea of TTTT/myself being buddies with chendennis still pings me as the stuff newbie scums think sounds like real scumhunting. And repeated sideline posting without actually doing anything game advancing feels to me like a better d1 scumtell than chen newbie posting a lot of hard to interpret weirdness

and we all missed this inconsistency on first go round:

Though, I wont be changing my vote unless I have a reason to believe the person is not for team town.

UNVOTE: Chan

In kind, returning the favor. Lol

But still no idea who to vote for. Looks like we are leaning TTTT, though. Idk

Sorry GL, you are really stretching here... the reason why I unvoted for Chen at the time was because of his argument for why he voted me. I was also extremely curious of all the back and forth beginning of the game that you were very much involved in.
All of the back and forth made me really question why I voted, and it was simply OMGUS as everyone stated; because there was no reason I had to vote for him at the beginning other than he voted for me. (Feel free to look through my ISO to be sure.)

I'd really like to address what other concerns you have for your scumread on me. Bring it.. I'm ready.
If there is anything I've been so far is honest with everyone. (Even through asking what OMGUS means... ) I honestly haven't a clue on where to go or what to do (read my ISO) and no.. I'm not faking it.
This is really my first game here. I'm starting to finally 'get' how this game goes again... (again it's been several years since I've played) so forgive me for being a little slow to the party.

[Screamingnoodle]

if mhsmith were here he would be telling us to stop thinking and lynch nmsa and screaming

but i dont want to talk my way out of this

Why to lynch me? Please explain.

If anything, I think I've given plenty away to be screaming Town to the high heavens. I'm genuinely curious.

he likes to say something to the effect of "sort by post count, become pretty good scum hunter"

how do you think you've town-told? Also, I have another question in my last post waiting for you

I've been town telling since my first thought post, but I understand it's hard to pick up. Maybe coming out the gate saying "I'M TOWN" makes it better?

[Screamingnoodle]

if mhsmith were here he would be telling us to stop thinking and lynch nmsa and screaming

but i dont want to talk my way out of this

Why to lynch me? Please explain.

If anything,

I think I've given plenty away to be screaming Town to the high heavens.

I'm genuinely curious.

oof

?? oof what Echo? Just because I come out and say that I'm town, or "screaming town to the high heavens". Doesn't mean I am scum... Tell me why you think I'm lying?

[Screamingnoodle]

was this mhsmith comment said for a reason? or just to say it, just out of curiosity. if the former, what reason? do you think we should lynch those two ??

i said it for a mix of reasons

1) i wanted to see who would respond to it and how. it was opaque, and i did not expect new players to know who or what I was talking about.
2) I was expressing an interest in both of those slots

I'm generally pretty free-flowing with my thoughts. If I have them, I usually share them.

Now, at this point in the game (as opposed to when I make that post) I'm still torn between a number of slots in an exceptionally scummy game, but NMSA + screaming is def a possibility I'm seriously considering. And I think one in {nmsa, screaming} is very likely scum

Well, I'm not scum. I can 100% promise you. Sorry you think as such. I think we should vote NMSA, but I'm going to read through ISO first before making that judgement.

I probably cast suspicion on myself for being AFK all weekend. :/ Which I can understand... I guess.

[Screamingnoodle]

I've been town telling since my first thought post, but I understand it's hard to pick up. Maybe coming out the gate saying "I'M TOWN" makes it better?

No

I would like a serious response, please.

Where do you think you've shown that you're town?

1. I don't know how I was ever scumread, so making a case to why I think I should be townread is funny to me. And though my previous response was lighthearted, I was being serious.
2. Spoiler for Lengthy posts.

Spoiler:

@screaming wait did you just OMGUS me

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

CsBlastoise is Town Lean for trying not to push town too hard at the beginning.

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

@Screaming an OMGUS is usually indicative of scum, though I won't scumread you off of that.

I have no idea what that means. I simply voted for you, as you voted for me when all I did was show up?
Haha Is that what that means?

Ninja Edits:
@Screaming RE Post 157: Mod said Saint already asked for replacement.

Ahh, I missed that. I see Muh requested replacement too. Regardless, I hope the spots are filled soon. Kind of annoying...

Thoughts:
I feel like some of you know this game TOO well to be newbs. It's showing and intimidating. Half my day is spent reading back and forth and we still have virtually no information to go on! I feel like a lynch is really need to start telling what is what and where is where.
I'm a little rusty but used to play forum Mafia/werewolf for several years. You guys are coming up to conclusions out of thin air. Which, such is usually the case for day 1. We really need more of a consensus on who the first lynch should be.

These are my thoughts so far:
Scum leaning: TTTT, GuiltyLion, and chennisden. In fact, the accusations going back and forth may actually be them working together to up front prove they are not scum and last in the game longer.
Null: Thespio and pretty much everyone else. I don't know why Thespio but... it's just a feeling... may not even been substantiated.

I'm going back to the town bar, having some town scotch, and dancing on town tables.

@screaming woah please don't advocate for a lynch way before deadline

Dont get me wrong, I am an advocate for lynching day 1. I never said anything about timeline.

Scum leaning: TTTT, GuiltyLion, and chennisden. In fact, the accusations going back and forth may actually be them working together to up front prove they are not scum and last in the game longer.
Null: Thespio and pretty much everyone else. I don't know why Thespio but... it's just a feeling... may not even been substantiated.

these reads concern me

why would TTTT or myself be scum with chennisden? I don't see why you'd think we'd open with a hardcore distancing gambit like that. And given that at least one of us three has to be town, that should make you question the validity of such a "working together" narrative from the get-go, because either way you slice it (either TTTT or myself being scum with chendennis) means there's at least one townie doing the behavior that you're casting as scummy (accusing/interacting with the other).

I can show you many past scumgames of me treating my newbie scum partners with kiddie gloves, especially on D1 since I don't like unnecessary attention on them until/unless I'm confident they can handle it.

Obviously, not all three I named are scum... I'm just saying... in my opinion and with how I've interpreted all the back and forth, these are my thoughts.
(Which in a previous post, TTTT is encouraging the newbies speak their thoughts so I did.)

I'm not sure how your last sentence helps me or your case. If two SE's are named scum (which I would hope not be the case in a newbie game) they

could

easily put forth the mechanic I mentioned. It's not something to discredit. I always think of all the possibilities and let my townies know too that the whole thing seemed fishy to me.
I was just surprised that right out the gate people were analyzing each other with no basis to go on. That to me is a red flag of sorts.

All these in my ISO. Bits and pieces taken out of context, of course scumread me... But I guess this is all I have take it or leave it.

[Screamingnoodle]

i don’t necessarily think you’re lying, nor do i think that you’re telling the truth... often times when people need to come out and straight up say “i’m town” when it’s unnecessary it’s because, well... they’re not town... there’s never really justification to sit there and just say “i’m town” as your only defense and have everyone trust your word on it. who’s to say who we trust if i just sit here and say “noodle is scum” because it’s solely my word against yours... your word is backed up by your actions and by your defense, not backed up by your word

nonetheless there really was no point to have a defense there (even just your word), as there was simply just one person who expressed an interest in lynching your slot... if you were at L-2 or L-1 it’d make a little more sense, but in favor of an actual defense and not just your word

with that said i think i might chill here for a bit and see how this turns out
VOTE: ScreamingNoodle

PEdit: you were asked why you’re town and you reverted back to your word, with “I 100% promise you i’m not scum”... what if i say “I 100% promise you noodle is scum” who’s to say who we trust ? hopefully the one with the most evidence and reasoning, and in this case, it would certainly not be you, as your only evidence is your word

Right.. and if you read my ISO, this is EXACTLY what I was trying to say at the beginning of this game. Accusations are being thrown around willy nilly with nothing really solid to go on.

I have a defense when I know people are wagoning me for the wrong reasons, especially when it will hurt the town.

[Screamingnoodle]

Well, anyways... there is my case. Have fun ya'll.

[Screamingnoodle]

Well, anyways... there is my case. Have fun ya'll.

[Screamingnoodle]

Well, anyways... there is my case. Have fun ya'll.

i'm so okay with this lynch bc she's now at L-2 yet her case seems to only be "i'm town because I said so"

And I laugh because of how bad of a decision this is, but I digress.

[Screamingnoodle]

So @Echo. Since there have been no actions in the game.. how can I be scumread?? Besides being AFK and obviously not being a well oiled mafiascum player. I want to know why you think I'm false.

@GL, Okay, finally getting an answer. Thank you. Exactly how am I supposed to help do that? Call out Chen for voting me? Oh wait... I did that in which you kinda took the reins and ran with. Am I to jump into the spotlight and point fingers without any information to go on... and expect everyone to make their case on why they arn't? I've said time and time again we have nothing substantial and I think we need to come to a lynch as we can all probably learn a lot when that happens. (See response from Echo, I feel this would just be a round robin if this is what you expect.)

[Screamingnoodle]

I truly have no idea who to lynch in this. My reads at this point are all over the place.

[Screamingnoodle]

What helps a lot more is to be making cases on each other and exploring/justifying scumreads, because then we can see who is thinking like an uninformed townie vs who is making up fake reasoning to push a mislynch. so I would expect town to be talking to people, pressuring people, proactively sharing thoughts and working with their townreads to sort their scumreads, but so far you seem to have an aversion towards doing this.

I don't have an aversion to this at all... Have you seen my posts today? Yes, I guess I should be more on the offensive rather that the defensive. It's certainly a better strategy. I guess I just post the first thing that comes to my head and I tend to be on the defense as is my personality.
So I'll point fingers with no basis, and you can do the same and we are suppose to magically come to the same conclusion? Cool.
[I think I remember why I hate D1 so much. I feel rusty AF playing with you all.]

[Screamingnoodle]

I don't have an aversion to this at all... Have you seen my posts today? Yes, I guess I should be more on the offensive rather that the defensive. It's certainly a better strategy. I guess I just post the first thing that comes to my head and I tend to be on the defense as is my personality.
So I'll point fingers with no basis, and you can do the same and we are suppose to magically come to the same conclusion? Cool.

I feel you're misrepping here, or trying to make my argument look bad

it's not a simple matter of offensive/defensive, you can be active and involved without being too aggressive. I'd categorize it more as engaged/disengaged. Engaged people are proactively commenting on stuff, bringing new thoughts/ideas to the table, demonstrating that they are trying to generate information and using information they've gained to inform their reads. disengaged people are floating in the thread and not making an impact, don't seem to particularly care who gets voted/wagoned, don't seem to care if people disagree/ignore their posts. I would categorize your ISO so far as disengaged and would be surprised if you disagree with me.

also what makes you say "no basis". I've given reasons for nearly all of my votes/reads and put a lot of thought into many of my posts - yes oftentimes it is my interpretation and not grounded in 100% solid empirical fact, but it still constitutes a "basis" for where and why I'm pointing fingers.

also you didn't answer my question about what you think would actually constitute a "good" reason or actual "information" to vote/scumread someone.

I don't disagree with you that my time AFK puts suspicion on me. I don't think I ever said that it didn't. I don't feel that I am disengaged in anything, but again.. just my word right?

With the argument that you put forth about how we should weed out scum, with being on the offense; I, again, feel that alot of this is just pointing fingers back and forth. You jump on me for being defensive when I know a lynch for me is a bad thing. Yet, instruct me that being this way is bad and that I should point fingers in other directions. To me, this would be an obvious scumtell. So, it's almost like your encouraging me to scumtell when I know for a fact that this will do nothing but hurt the town in the end.

I have answered your last question multiple times, but not directly. ^ This would be a good reason to lynch someone. Also, encouraging others to scumtell when they arn't gives me a reason to believe that you are scum and trying to get a townie lynched D1 which is very easy to do.
The only hard evidence we can go on is a lynch at this point. Which will then give us good indication of all who have been participating where their allegiance may lie.

Honestly, I don't really mind if people lynch me. Everyone will find out in the end that I was right, even if that means I'm out of this game. However, I would like the chance to keep playing with you all as I feel that as newb as I have been through this whole thing so far; at least a couple people may actually trust what I have to say.

[Screamingnoodle]

Side note: Congratulations on the kid turning 5!

Thanks. Time goes by too quickly.

[Screamingnoodle]

Intent to Hammer

Noodle plz claim your role

I have done this already... Townie. Vanilla in every way... Don't know what else you all want me to say... and apparently as Echo stated. Words are words and mean nothing.

[Screamingnoodle]

Lion do you think its odd, when we tryed to lynch chen there wasnt any other wagon going? and now when we start pushing noodle we have U R A Person 2 flipping onto chen? to me that looks SUPER scummy.

Same exact thought I had on this.. Very scummy

[Screamingnoodle]

So @Echo. Since there have been no actions in the game.. how can I be scumread?? Besides being AFK and obviously not being a well oiled mafiascum player. I want to know why you think I'm false.

@GL, Okay, finally getting an answer. Thank you. Exactly how am I supposed to help do that? Call out Chen for voting me? Oh wait... I did that in which you kinda took the reins and ran with. Am I to jump into the spotlight and point fingers without any information to go on... and expect everyone to make their case on why they arn't? I've said time and time again we have nothing substantial and I think we need to come to a lynch as we can all probably learn a lot when that happens. (See response from Echo, I feel this would just be a round robin if this is what you expect.)

because when the slightest suspicion arose on you, you immediately began your defense
although, it wasn't a good defense... it was simply "i'm town because I said so" which is weak and has no place in a mafia game
then, as the push continued, you didn't try to throw the wagon on anybody else, you didn't provide reason for it being false, you just stuck with "i'm town because i said so" and ran with it

Reason I didn't try and throw the wagon on anyone else, is because I really don't know who best to throw it on. My reads haven't been very good. Though UAP2 is looking quite suspicious to me now..

[Screamingnoodle]

Well, after catching up from lunch I was going to declare intent, but I guess that's not needed now. I'm very surprised at the lolhammer, I thought you would at least give chen some time to reply...

Why the rush NMSA?

[Screamingnoodle]

VOTE: Chen for the Hammer

[Screamingnoodle]

Thanks guys. I really enjoyed this game. I was so mad at myself when I didn't recognize the carbon copy of the 1915 gambit.

I am gonna go in the Newbie queue now

Great game! Thanks for it all and see you around! (I hope we get to play another game together. It was fun.)

[Screamingnoodle]

Yea, I tend to agree with TTTT and URAP2.

The NK makes no sense at all. It actually helped the Village case of what Cs's role and alignment is due to Chennis departure.

It would actually make more sense for scum if the NK was someone other than CS. It would have left us more in confusion if it would actually be Cs or not.
Due to this and what TTTT and URAP2 have mentioned...

I'll wait to vote...

[Screamingnoodle]

Yea, I tend to agree with TTTT and URAP2.

The NK makes no sense at all. It actually helped the Village case of what Cs's role and alignment is due to Chennis departure.

It would actually make more sense for scum if the NK was someone other than CS. It would have left us more in confusion if it would actually be Cs or not.
Due to this and what TTTT and URAP2 have mentioned...

I'll wait to vote...

Right so ask yourself, If Lion is scum, their scum buddy gets put on the chopping block and now they are solo, town states their next two lynches, they kill CS because cs is town and they know im town, now they are set up for a slow recovery, they also arent posting to the blame for a ML. Honestly look at him hard D3.

I don't disagree with you. Especially as hard as GL pressed me to be a town ML D1. Had most of the town convinced... I'm just glad that everyone saw the light. I was FOR SURE scum would have NK'd me. However, I think it would have been too easy for them to do.

[Screamingnoodle]

lol alright let's put an end to this

VOTE: Thespio

noodle you should reread D1, I was also the one that saved you after I built the wagon on you

Yep! I know you were. Which is why I wasn't going to vote you! I was going to vote Thespio. lol YAY! Village wins.

[Screamingnoodle]

I really enjoyed this game and it really showed me how rusty I am in reading people. Thanks all. I am def. signing up for another newbie game.

[Screamingnoodle]

It was a great game Thespio!