Newbie 621 (Game Over!)

[Battousai]

/confirm

[Battousai]

Because your mean?

Anyways, just got done graduating/partying this weekend so I had to read the thread. To catch up:

Random stage

vote: zeal

because the name sounds too much like seal.

unvote

vote: Nahraza

, for the same real reason mirth voted nahraza.

[Battousai]

Ya I got it, I didn't want to answer your question as I thought it was directed more to the newbies in the game.

[Battousai]

The reason I voted Nahraza is the way he came in. First post was completely useless, after post was defensive and used his newness to explain his first post as "not knowing what's the ordinary way of doing things here". Another reason was to get him to talk more (2 votes have seemed to get him pretty defensive). Now his other posts are kind of defensive, but have no questions or comments that would help search for scum.

The reason I borrowed your reasons, Mirth, was because they were the same (I think), and I thought your question was for the newbies to get them to think of why someone would vote someone other than trying to get them lynched and what not.

[Battousai]

I agree with Mirth- believe everyone playing is scum, until they can prove it otherwise (that's how I play it). So far no one has been able to prove to me that they are not scum.

Nah- that's all I wanted. Your post wasn't, to me, wasn't expect to be in depth yet, but to give us what you think as long as it's not "I don't see anything suspicious."

UNVOTE

TSQ- I don't care what your reasons are for voting Mirth, it's not a vote based on meta, a pressure vote, reaction vote, or anything. All it is doing is distracting the town somewhat, and keeping you from actually playing the game mostly (I believe you only posted like 2 questions in one post to stimulate discussion)

Silencio- post.

FOS: TSQ, Silencio

[Battousai]

It's nulltell at the most part for now. I need him to contribute more before I can pass it off as banter or to pass it off as scummy.

[Battousai]

A few things I want to add....

1) Lurking =/= scum, BUT lurking is sometimes a noob scum mistake. I recently replaced into a game where D1 they lynched a lurker. That lurker turned up scum. So, basically what I'm saying is that lurking is a nulltell that can LATER be used in your case against someone as long as its not the main point (as that would make your case very weak)

2) You don't have to trust Mirth, in fact I discourage trusting anyone in the game, but regardless you should at least listen to what they have to say.

TSQ: Ok, so you haven't had time lately to play. Ok, I buy that. Then why don't you contribute now instead of posting just an excuse?

Merc: Why would someone who isn't scum want to distract the town? Most of the time, distracting the town is unintentional. If he's town then I just pointed it out to get him to stop.

[Battousai]

Personally, I accept meta on posting activity if someone is active elsewhere but not in this game if they are gone for long enough time. But if they are gone from all their games then it's a nulltell, they could be scum in one of their games and trying to lurk in all of them not to seem suspicious or is generally just gone.

Merc: I wasn't defending TSQ on purpose, I just answered your question. You asked why a townie would want to distract town and I told you why A TOWNIE would distract town, not protown TSQ or scum TSQ.

If TSQ doesn't participate tommorow I'll

,

VOTE: TSQ

you've been unhelpful all game, get in here and start participating

[Battousai]

Mod: Could we get a prod on TSQ if you haven't done so already?

[Battousai]

Hello! Welcome to the game...

[Battousai]

...2 is far from a lynch and I've been refreshing all day so

if it went close before we got an answer I can pull back

Because I thought it was the second vote on him and

I don't have the time today to keep checking the page

Inconsistancy? In mafia, especially on here, you have to be consistant in most things, whether your town or scum.

L-2 is good pressure, you should keep your vote back on him. It would take two more to lynch him and generally speaking, newbie townies lately have been hesitating to force the hammer so he is safe from lynch.

[Battousai]

Could we get some imput from those who haven't posted in awhile?

[Battousai]

I'm all for lynching him or putting him at L-1 to get him to actually play. Yes, inactive townie is better than mislynch, but if we leave him alive until he talks we won't have much to go on later in the game to determine if he's scum or not.

[Battousai]

In my opinion, lynching lurkers D1 isn't neccessarily bad, especially if they are picking up their prods and the lynchers don't have someone they find overly scummy to lynch. Remember lurking =/= scum, but it doesn't also imply that they are town either.

The reason I support a TSQ lynch to some degree is that what if he keeps playing like this into D2? When do you draw the line to actually lynching them, when it's LyLo-

would like an answer from EVERYBODY

? If he keeps playing like this, it becomes harder and harder to get any real read out of him. I would definately support a replacement, but he's picking up his prods.

[Battousai]

My second choice: Gremwell. I was actually going to vote him earlier to get some reasction out of him as soon as TSQ started to cooperate, unless TSQ's cooperation became scummy.

Gremwell: Why do you not like that quote? You would give Mirth a FOS for that comment, but you never said why that comment was suspicious.

[Battousai]

Mirth: I wanted to know his reasons exactly instead of what my reason would have been.

[Battousai]

Merc: Why would I be more inclined to be scum based on the outcome of a TSQ lynch?

[Battousai]

MOD: How long does it take before YOU give out prods, 2 days, 3 days, 4...?

If TSQ picks up X amount of prods, he won't be replaced and all he's doing is hurting the game, period.

Merc: You still haven't answered my question from post 203.

[Battousai]

Merc: Sorry 'bout that, I looked at Malex's post and thought that was you and you skipped my question.

Grem- who were your targets? TSQ... that's not any better than Malex's TSQ and Nahraza "easy" targets.

[Battousai]

Battousai: votes for Nahraza for same reason as Mith (isn't that a nice cop out).

I gave my reason later, and why I didn't first tell it (this is my first IC game with such an IC player like Mirth). I actually gave my reasons before Mirth did for his vote.

Votes TSQ for unhelpful. Why did this happen after defending him for so long?

Where have I defended him? At page 4 he as all but disappeared and I asked him to come back and at least play the game and his only posts have been distractionary. I sealed it off with a FOS, now how is that defending him?

Post 160 how do you know the only people not voting are newbie townies?

I was talking about the FORUM as a whole, not this game.... "It would take two more to lynch him and

generally speaking

, newbie townies lately have been hesitating to force the hammer so he is safe from lynch."

Post 182 not finding anyoe overly scummy in 10 pages (oh really)

Let's look at that quote:

"In my opinion,

lynching lurkers

D1

isn't neccessarily bad

, especially if they are picking up their prods and the

lynchers don't have someone they find overly scummy to lynch

. Remember lurking =/= scum, but it doesn't also imply that they are town either.

The reason I support a TSQ

lynch to some degree

is that what if he keeps playing like this into D2? When do you draw the line to actually lynching them, when it's LyLo- would like an answer from EVERYBODY? If he keeps playing like this, it becomes harder and harder to get any real read out of him. I would definately support a replacement, but he's picking up his prods."

Who do you find OVERLY suspicious? I can name a few suspicious people right now, but that doesn't mean I want to lynch them, only 2 are scum.

I'd really wish you wouldn't have posted just yet, I would have like to see how everyone else would first react to there being a replacement. Mine is obv, as I still have my vote on you.





Merc: Distancing is as common a scum tell as, defending, attacking accusers, WIFOM.... the last part is what you started to do, but since you didn't go into much detail I personally see it as ok. Also, this is just my personal preference, but could you add an avatar to your profile? I usually don't pay attention to names, but instead to avatars (in which I've memorized avy to name). You don't have to but it would be nice.

[Battousai]

Farside: I really just wanted to see how the others would have reacted FIRST, before you commented. Of course it benefited you to actually talk, but I would have gotten even more information if everyone else spoke sooner.

Merc: "Isn't Scum pointing at each other early game considered to be a fairly standard tactic? I was specifically referring to Batto in 194. My gut feeling at the time was that Batto seemed to be more active when we started talking about TSQ."

Battousai: "Distancing is as common a scum tell as, defending, attacking accusers, WIFOM.... the last part is what you started to do, but since you didn't go into much detail I personally see it as ok. Also, this is just my personal preference, but could you add an avatar to your profile? I usually don't pay attention to names, but instead to avatars (in which I've memorized avy to name). You don't have to but it would be nice."

It wasn't really WIFOM, but if you pursude it further as a reason of guilt, then it could turn that way or at least be bad logic... "Battousai is scum because he distanced himself from TSQ." "Battousai is town because he went after TSQ." You see the same thing could be interpreted differently by my actions. That is why it's bad evidence, UNTIL you have more information to why you think I'm scummy.

What you did wasn't scummy, but saying a possible pair without going into much detail with evidence can be seen as (I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly from brain to keyboard) subtly pushing the town in a direction without them knowing who is actually pushing them if you do it too much.

[Battousai]

One of the problems I had with TSQ was that he came in and said HI after being prodded, but still did not participate. He hampered the town if he was protown (red herring).

The reason I asked merc, and not mirth was because she's been here awhile and if she didn't have one then that meant she prefers not to have one.

Farside: Being able to come in and say HI means they're busy? Why didn't he write that, if he knew he was going to be busy, then why didn't he ask for replacement? I know you're trying to defend his actions as you're his replacement, but all you can do is give your opinion like the rest of us (but with more insight). I think it is just as likely he was purposefully lurking.

[Battousai]

One of the problems I had with TSQ was that he came in and said HI after being prodded, but still did not participate. He hampered the town if he was protown (red herring).

The reason I asked merc, and not mirth was because she's been here awhile and if she didn't have one then that meant she prefers not to have one.

Farside: Being able to come in and say HI means they're busy? Why didn't he write that, if he knew he was going to be busy, then why didn't he ask for replacement? I know you're trying to defend his actions as you're his replacement, but all you can do is give your opinion like the rest of us (but with more insight). I think it is just as likely he was purposefully lurking.

I've never seen someone lurk in such away being on purpose. I've seen people say I'm still here with nothing else and were town. Are you going to tell me you had not? Do you lynch lurkers typically?

Actually, I recently replaced into a game where scum was lynched D1 for picking up prods, but never posting. Like I said, we won't know his real reason for doing so all we can do is guess and give opinions. I would prefer to lynch someone who is pretty scummy in my eyes. But when someone who is obviously lurking (not contributing, hardly posting, but picking up prods) I would like to get them as close as I can to lynch as possible to pressure them to talk, and if they don't I wouldn't hesitate to hammer (depending no what day it was and the setup).

UNVOTE

, since deadline is looming this week and since TSQ/farside isn't the scummiest person to me.

VOTE: Gremwell

, so far I don't think the scum have made enough mistakes to be seen as obv scum, so I'm going with my gut here. Seemed eager to appease mirth (with the voting/ unvoting of TSQ), plus he didn't enter the game very "gracefully."

[Battousai]

Grem, I was asked (don't remember exact wording) who is my number 1 suspect besides TSQ, and I answered it.

What does everyone else think? Do you feel like the thread was leaning towards lynching anyone, if so who?

[Battousai]

By gracefully, I meant his post where he says Nahraza would be a good lynch target whether she was scum or not.

[Battousai]

MOD: Can we get a mass prod?

I like mass prods as it gets EVERYBODY to post.

Grem- you know where I stand on you right now.

[Battousai]

^I like how Mirth addressed it better, you said it mean

List of People I Find Interesting

Gremwell

: Gave my reasons for voting him, plus after I voted immediately OMGUS'd me out of the blue it seemed. 92

TSQ/Farside

: Was inactive for most of the game, when came on only posted "Mirth is scum." Then when prodded posts Hi and leaves. Farside comes and participates. Hasn't done anything suspicious yet. 50

Mirth

: Actively scumhunting, but are you so focused on trying to get someone lynched you read into things that aren't there, aka the cop speculation, and post 165? At the beginning was the dominate talker in the game. 25

Kristopf

: Attacked or defended his attacks on TSQ in all of his posts except the last 4 when Farside took control. Did your easy target become not so easy? Then attacked Malex for trying to change his vernacular to lessen the confusion of his posts. Then goes missing before a deadline lynch. 45

*the numbers at the end is the percent sure I am that the person is scum. I try and get someone lynched once they reach 90.

The reason I didn't contribute last post was because I'm ready for Gremwell to be lynched as soon as everyone posts at least once more with their opinion, specifically those that haven't yet.

[Battousai]

It's ok, I was just joking about the mean part. A mass prod gets EVERYONE to post at least once more. Then I'd be happy Gremwell gets lynched.

[Battousai]

Yes, Gremwell is the most suspicious, and the person I feel that I'm more sure about being scum. I don't go up to 100%, as you can never be certain of someone's role unless the mod tells you it. Grem, I have already stated all the facts on you and I feel it is enough to warrant a deadline lynch.


I'm in the middle of two rereads (this one is top of the list due to deadline), but I have to go so I'll post what I have written so far. It will be revised to sound better and include more information.

Kristopf- post 47, didn't want to look scummy so unvoted TSQ (was a second vote, and TSQ recieved no other votes up to that time)

Nahraza- comes in, first post was a "Hi" post (at 2 1/14 pages) and when addressed about it, gets defensive and tells everyone she? is a newbie. Continued to not contribute much information. Gets even more defensive with 2 votes on her?.

Malex- post 70 calls Mirth out for abusing his IC status, just as Mirth was accusing Nahraza of doing with her newbie status. Accuses Mirth of wanting to lynch Nahraza on page 3.

[Battousai]

Reread v 2.0 now up to page 6, sorry for being a slow reader and typer.


Malex- post 70 calls Mirth out for abusing his IC status, just as Mirth was accusing Nahraza of doing with her newbie status. Accuses Mirth of wanting to lynch Nahraza on page 3. Post 77, first read didn't I didn't read too much into it, but with his later posts this could be his first post where he trying to appease the rest of the players.

Kristopf- post 47, didn't want to look scummy so unvoted TSQ (was a second vote, and TSQ recieved no other votes up to that time).post 78 possibly trying to set mirth up for lynch tomorrow using the argument if x is town, then y is scum. "If we end up lynching one of her top suspects and they turn up as town, that would cast some suspicion on her, but for now she seems like a good scum hunter, and she hasn't said anything that has caught my suspicion yet." Post 137 "attacks" Gremwell for having many posts being brief and haveing a counterargument for everything

Nahraza- comes in, first post was a "Hi" post (at 2 1/14 pages) and when addressed about it, gets defensive and tells everyone she? is a newbie. Continued to not contribute much information. Gets even more defensive with 2 votes on her?. Post 81 still hasn't contributed towards scumhunting

Merc- post 92 misinterprets one of my posts, making it seem like I'm letting TSQ off the hook with the contradiction that was pointed out earlier.

Gremwell- Comes in, and in his first post states TSQ's only reason for voting Mirth is because TSQ is scum. Second posts says we can do without Nahraza, supports his/her lynch if Nahraza is a vanilla townie or scum. Then asks how many scum are in the game. Post 125 brings up 3 people as lurkers for not posting for 4 days, stating "While lurking =/= scum like you said, I personally don't like it." Which I interpreted as I don't think they are scummy for lurking, but I'll bring it up for others to think that. Post 132, out of the blue states that Mirth, while helpful, could still be scum. (Mirth was the person who was on Gremwell first and his biggest threat).

Zeal- I don't have much to say, doesn't post much but when she does it's contributing usually. Post 127, comes back after MIA 4 days right after called out for it.

Gremwell, those were a summary, there are more suspicious behaviour by you in the reread. Above is what I have reread thus far.

Mirth: Why do you think I'm scum and thus Gremwell town? Couldn't it be possible I'm bussing my partner or that I have my targets on a townie by mistake?

[Battousai]

I only said 92 was because of it being a deadline lynch, I feel 92% that grem would be the best deadline lynch right now.

The reason I haven't included Mirth was because she hasn't done anything suspicious up to that point except not immediately giving reasons for votes at the very beginning (which I read as trying to help the newbies in the game). Nothing really to point out.

Now on to hopefully, the last of the reread.

[Battousai]

Day 1 reread V 3.0

Gremwell

- Comes in, and in his first post states TSQ's only reason for voting Mirth is because TSQ is scum. Second posts says we can do without Nahraza, supports his/her lynch if Nahraza is a vanilla townie or scum. Then asks how many scum are in the game. Post 125 brings up 3 people as lurkers for not posting for 4 days, stating "While lurking =/= scum like you said, I personally don't like it." Which I interpreted as I don't think they are scummy for lurking, but I'll bring it up for others to think that. Post 132, out of the blue states that Mirth, while helpful, could still be scum. (Mirth was the person who was on Gremwell first and his biggest threat). Post 157, backs down easily from a L-2 pressure vote because Mirth wondered what Grem's hurry was. Post 274 OMGUS votes me stating I'm trying to slip into a bandwagon on him and the fact that I was early on every bandwagon (that's a new newb reason for me. Usually I see newbs blame the last people on the wagon). Post 287 plea to emotion defense. Post 326 misses the part of my last reread where I state it's up to page 6. I see that as him just skimming my rereads meaning his mind's made up already.

Mirth

- (happy, I found something suspicious ?) post 165, misinterprets Grem, confusing RL day with game day (making Grem seem like he's in a hurry to lynch). Post 222, asks who Nahraza thought of as not scum (sometimes it obvious who are the most townie, but actually stating who you feel is pro town helps scum in choosing their NK on as to not make it surprising or helpful to the town). Post 293 misinterprets Grem and makes him appear more scummy stating he was cop speculating when he wasn't.

Kristopf

- post 47, didn't want to look scummy so unvoted TSQ (was a second vote, and TSQ recieved no other votes up to that time).post 78 possibly trying to set mirth up for lynch tomorrow using the argument if x is town, then y is scum. "If we end up lynching one of her top suspects and they turn up as town, that would cast some suspicion on her, but for now she seems like a good scum hunter, and she hasn't said anything that has caught my suspicion yet." Post 137 "attacks" Gremwell for having many posts being brief and haveing a counterargument for everything. Post 167 was mostly an echo of previous post on TSQ, with a defense of Grem's RL day/ game day but saying grem's confusion over the votecount (not knowing what L-2 was) was something to point out. Post 267, goes with the current flow of two IC's and attacks Malex for trying to appease the town by being willing to change his vernacular to avoid confusion(I saw that post 257 was him trying to help everybody out by avoiding confusion.).One thing I don't get with this post is that you ask Malex why he is eager to appease the town, but then follow that up with Malex is seeming more and more like he's diverting attention. They don't mesh as appeasement =/= diverting attention.

Zeal

- I don't have much to say, doesn't post much but when she does it's contributing usually. Post 127, comes back after MIA 4 days right after called out for it. Post 193 states that Nahraza is second on her list of suspicious people for "because he told us himself that he doesn't find the game all that interesting, and probably won't read the pages he's missed since he last posted." Post 255 calls malex on saying the town and not us (It's a language thing, personally I was called out on that when I was a newb on another site for saying town since I considered all players apart of the town, except some were protown and the others scum. So I don't see anything wrong with it if you know what he means.). Then defends himself by saying he could just be paranoid.

Merc

- post 92 misinterprets one of my posts, making it seem like I'm letting TSQ off the hook with the contradiction that was pointed out earlier. Post 194 states who is scummy to him, but fails to give a reason why. In same post states I would be scummy if we lynched TSQ and he came up town.

TSQ/Farside

- Beginning of game posts nothing of content except 1 question. Refuses to answer questions. Picks up prods, but still doesn't play, but eventually get's replaced. Post 252, (this isn't necessarily scummy I just disagree with this instance as he wasn't asking for how he should act but how he should OF acted for Mirth to have not brought it up)

Nahraza/Mega

- comes in, first post was a "Hi" post (at 2 1/14 pages) and when addressed about it, gets defensive and tells everyone she? is a newbie. Continued to not contribute much information. Gets even more defensive with 2 votes on her?. Post 81 still hasn't contributed towards scumhunting. Post 320 Votes Mirth (who just recently voted him) for Mirth being certain TSQ was scum (we all know that's backwards)

Malex

- post 70 calls Mirth out for abusing his IC status, just as Mirth was accusing Nahraza of doing with her newbie status. Accuses Mirth of wanting to lynch Nahraza on page 3. Post 77, first read didn't I didn't read too much into it, but with his later posts this could be his first post where he trying to appease the rest of the players.


I don't have much of a read on Malex, Zeal, and Mega partly due to the last to not posting much and the fact I don't see Malex's abundant appeasement as a few of you have pointed out.

[Battousai]

Deadline is in two days, we need to come to a decision.

[Battousai]

Looks like I'm going to have to go with Mega to avoid a no lynch.

With Nahraza, I didn't get much of a read on except the fact that she/he didn't contribute or scumhunt at all when she/he was here. Now with Mega acting the way he is now, I feel that it is a good vote, because there is actually a good case on him. I would switch back to Grem if someone else would vote him, but at this late hour I don't see it happening.

Grem:

it would make for a better D2 seeing as we know more about everyone else

How would a mega lynch provide more information D2 than a lynch of you. (I know you a vested intrest in staying alive, but this part confuses me as you don't tell us what kind of information we would get.)

[Battousai]

EBWOP:

Zeal: Give me a break, I called you a her for most of my anaylsis

[Battousai]

Mega: You do relize TSQ was going after Mirth the entire time he was here, asking for her lynch. And that Mirth was defending TSQ when he went inactive?

[Battousai]

Dang, just realized I didn't vote Mega in my previous posts like I wanted to.

I'll try and remember to return the favour and call you a her later

That's all I ever wanted .

Mega, after I pointed out what was wrong with his vote, he still kept it on at deadline. That is something I don't like.

Vote: Mega

. That's the hammer vote.

[Battousai]

Care to explain your vote? You don't even discuss who would kill farside and why or anything about day 1.

[Battousai]

I'd really prefer if you just told me instead of me guessing.

What do you mean you don't know what to discuss? After every Day and Night it is best to at least review who died, and try and figure out why (looking at the dead's votes before the lynch, their hunches, etc..). As an IC, you've should have played in multiple games and this is pretty standard (some games people go to fast and skip it or something like it, but it is what USUALLY happens).

FOS: Mirth

[Battousai]

I'd prefer if you told me, that way I know it is your own reasoning and not someone else's as to garner their support or what not.

[Battousai]

Ok, after reading Farside's posts, I do not think the scum killed her because she was a cop. So that leaves semi random, defensive killing, and setup.

If it's defensive killing I would suspect either Grem, Zeal, or Malex for Farside mentions them as being scummy or mentions bad things about them (Malex and his posts). Now we through in the fact that Mirth is still alive. Mirth had similar suspicions on Malex. So if Malex was scum, why didn't he go for the person who basically leads the thread? So either Malex and Mirth are scum pairs or it's Grem or Zeal (if it's a defensive killing)

If it's a setup, then I would expect Grem to be protown as farside was more suspicious of him than the other 2. Unfortunately this way there isn't much to go on, on who IS scum.

If it's semi-random, it means the person randomly picked the target among the 5 protown players, and probably minus 1 or 2 people who would suspect them. So if this was the case, then I would expect Mirth, Merc, or Kristoph to be scum.


And to answer your question Mirth on why you voted me: I refuse to answer. Asking someone to tell everyone else why the person thinks he/she is scummy is a loaded question. If they say "I have not acted scummy" you just pull up some quotes and presto, they lied and look even more scummy. If they answer you, then they could add in more reasons than the one you already had making them even more scummy.

We should look over D1 and the info we got from N1 before placing votes as it distracts the town from this info, sometimes to the point where they don't even go over it. I think I FOS'd Mirth already, but if I havent

FOS:Mirth

.

[Battousai]

Actually Grem, Merc did not defend me, he said he was surprised Mirth is still alive. In a later post he even said he was fine with a vote on me.

[Battousai]

MOD: Can we get a prod on Kristopf? Last post was the 21st.

[Battousai]

Forgot about the prod, either way he should be posting soon. I hope he doesn't get replaced.

[Battousai]

In the beginning it was to get everyone to think, but now it just seems suspicious.

[Battousai]

While we are waiting on Kristoph, how bout we go to the discussion of the dead players to keep the game alive shall we?

Ok, after reading Farside's posts, I do not think the scum killed her because she was a cop. So that leaves semi random, defensive killing, and setup.

If it's defensive killing I would suspect either Grem, Zeal, or Malex for Farside mentions them as being scummy or mentions bad things about them (Malex and his posts). Now we through in the fact that Mirth is still alive. Mirth had similar suspicions on Malex. So if Malex was scum, why didn't he go for the person who basically leads the thread? So either Malex and Mirth are scum pairs or it's Grem or Zeal (if it's a defensive killing)

If it's a setup, then I would expect Grem to be protown as farside was more suspicious of him than the other 2. Unfortunately this way there isn't much to go on, on who IS scum.

If it's semi-random, it means the person randomly picked the target among the 5 protown players, and probably minus 1 or 2 people who would suspect them. So if this was the case, then I would expect Mirth, Merc, or Kristoph to be scum.

What does everybody think about this interpretation? Which one do you feel is more likely, due to yesterdays posts?

[Battousai]

Killing off the ICs could also be a strategy in use here. I just noticed I spelled throw incorrectly in my last post. I feel bad now.

[Battousai]

Mod: Has Kristoph picked up the prod or are you looking for a replacement?

I

think

that Mirth is refering to why Farside was killed over me and her. If I was newb scum I would have killed Mirth first, unless she was my partner, and then probably Farside, as a Battousai lynch would probably be easier than a Farside at that point.

[Battousai]

I rather not say, as it may or may not be benficial to scum to get my opinion on this matter. Plus it could be used against me later in a fabricated case against me by scum later as directing the scum or something like that.

[Battousai]

As I could not find any tells, the only way they would have known there to be a doctor or a cop is if there are two goons and no roleblocker.

[Battousai]

If they had a roleblocker, then they wouldn't know for sure if there was a town power role. That is why I did not include it.

[Battousai]

That is a possibility, better safe than sorry.

[Battousai]

It's a possibility that the scum have a RB and decided to randomly try to hit a power role as it is "better safe than sorry"

[Battousai]

I meant randomly hunt and KILL the power role. Of course the RB would use their power.

Activity has been dwindling, I would like more people to contribute. The convo me and Mirth is having isn't really scumhunting, so I think it's best we move on from that. I'm going to go and look back at D1 again.

[Battousai]

Just because we are waiting on Kristopf, it doesn't mean we can move on with the discussion and get back to it when the replacement gets in.

[Battousai]

I meant the fact of RB using their ability or whether or not there is a RB, that's extraneous.

[Battousai]

Mirth, I don't believe your claim. To me there's a 50/50 chance that you're scum. Reason being, there was no benefit for you claiming truthfully that I can fathom. You weren't even close to being lynched. Claiming doc, would be like us have a confirmed innocent, BUT with some discredit. Then you say you're not sure you'd be killed. That gives scum (if your not) reason NOT to kill you and get us to mislynch you, another bad reason to claim. If you are scum, by saying that you are predefending yourself for being alive tomorrow with WIFOM.

The case you have against me is because I'm alive? If that's the case, not only is that WIFOM, but I bet I do have a reason that I am alive over Farside. That is because YOU said you felt I was scum over Grem and that no one was outright suspecting Farside at all (from my point of view, after Farside actually started playing, especially nearer the end, I thought TSQ was just lurking/disinterested thus nulltell) except Merc I believe. You have a lot of sway, and if you're town then the two noob scum would probably think you could convince people I was scum (did a good job with zeal which I will address later).

Now that you have told us the reaction you wanted to see from Kristopf, you just gave the replacement a free pass. He/she will now know what you were looking for and decide the best response to your question. Even if you thought you breadcrumbed enough, you could have waited for the answer and if it was good you could say you breadcrumbed enough that scum could know what was expected (making the replacement's answer a NULLTELL).

Zeal: Ok, you believe the claim. But you are under the assumption that ALL of Mirth's suspects are scum. Not only is that bad town play if your town, but bad scum play as you were easily outed as following along. Why couldn't Malex and Kristopf be scum partners, hell why can't me and Grem be scum partners? We could have just bussed each other (note my final vote was on Nah's replacement). It is also likely that Mirth and Grem are partners (I think that is likely because Mirth kind of saved Grem from being lynched by diverting attention away from him and onto an inactive Nah who had a bad replacement). Also, it may be "easy" for Mirth to get caught, but it could cost the town at least another mislynch and possibly a third. I think that is a good trade off.

FoS:Mirth, SFOS: Zeal

[Battousai]

I don't like how your just following people along, zeal. I think I'll bump the SFOS up to a vote.

Vote: Zeal

[Battousai]

No votes have been placed on zeal, and I thought another vote would add more discussion (almost 24 hours without another post before then).

The reason I didn't comment on you is that I believe I have already made myself clear about you and your last post would lead me into WIFOM and what if situations.

[Battousai]

Ok, you believe the claim. But you are under the assumption that ALL of Mirth's suspects are scum. Not only is that bad town play if your town, but bad scum play as you were easily outed as following along. Why couldn't Malex and Kristopf be scum partners, hell why can't me and Grem be scum partners?

No, I'm assuming that you are the

only one of Mirth's suspects that are scum

. I can't see why you weren't targeted last night. I don't think you and Grem were bussing each other, it was too serious for that. I don't see you taking the risk of one of you being wagonned.

Let's see, there could be a chance Mirth is scum (thus I would have been roleblocked and then Farside killed. Or it could be the fact that NONE of the IC's were scum, thus they could only effect 2 of the 3 of us. What your saying is that YOU thought FARSIDE was scummier than I was, thus Farside should have been kept alive instead of myself.

I don't like your statement. You think I'm scummy, because I'm alive and not Farside.

Also, I bolded a part of your quote. Are you saying you are only considering Mirth's scum list and not going by your own?

Also, it may be "easy" for Mirth to get caught, but it could cost the town at least another mislynch and possibly a third.

How could it cause a third?

We already have one mislynch. So it's 5-2 scum. Then in that scenerio I listed that it would be beneficialy for Mirth to falseclaim right now. So as long as you're going along with everything Mirth says and votesme it's 3-2 scum Day 3 (lylo). And at Lylo, I think Mirth, if scum, could easily manipulate the rest of the town and not vote her at LyLo and that's another mislynch (if she can divert attention away from her scum partner in both of those days).

Both of these have been nullified, as the cop is dead, and I am going to be targeted again with either a roleblock or a kill, as the scum clearly want me out of the way, if they thought enough to roleblock me to roleblock me the first night even if it was blind.

That still doesn't mean they would have roleblocked you again tonight.

Just wondering, what does the extra S in SFoS mean?

The S means Serious. Agreed with above bolded part. I'm sure you weren't going to be lynched today, so you becoming an uncomfirmed (we don't know the roles of the scum to confirm the existance of a doc) doc doesn't help the town as much as one that is hidden and possibly saving another player's life. I know you say you are certain the scum are going for the IC's, but finding out you were a doc after you are dead would probably would have been better for the town to get rid of all the WIFOM.


Also, we are getting more activity. Let's keep it up

[Battousai]

Mirth, I don't understand what you are saying. Did you miss my entire point of that quote? My point was that Zeal thought I should have been killed over Farside and I gave reasons on why I wasn't targeted to my knowledge. From a third party perspective, don't you think those options I listed were POSSIBLE? Why do I get scum points for suggesting the fact that YOU could be scum. In all honesty you kind of get some scum points for claiming when you didn't need to, IMHO.

Actually Merc, I believe Mirth was the first one to bring up killing the ICs as what the scum are doing (I was focused on why Farside was picked over other people, revenge, setup, etc.), and I went on to say that is a possibility.

[Battousai]

I didn't really mean to suggest that I was roleblocked, just that there is a an equal chance that you lied about being roleblocked and that you are scum. If your lieing and scum, I would agree that there is not a roleblocker as the doc would be wise and counterclaim you by now. Those examples I gave came from the top of my head, thus I didn't take into consideration all the roles/scenarios and instead only took into consideration possible scenerios where I could not be targeted in a "kill the ICs strategy" (no IC scum, you lied and thus I was RB'd and Farside was killed, etc.)

What do you think about Zeal, Mirth? Do you think it is strange that Zeal seems to blindly follow you very closely? I think there might be a Zeal/Mirth connection or more likely a Zeal pretending to make a connection with Mirth (Mirth dies and is protown, makes Zeal less scummy).

[Battousai]

Zeal: What I don't get is why you think I would be scum if Mirth is the doc? Is it because you think an IC HAS to be scum, because I would like YOUR information on why you would assume I'm scum if Mirth is a doc.

[Battousai]

Zeal, while it is a common theory in newbie games compared to games on different parts of the forum. There are also other theories the scum could come up with. See my post 408, that has a few strategies scum can use as well.

And also, the biggest threat to scum is not IC's but rather people who might be a powerrole and/or are getting close to figuring them out.

FOS: Malex, Gremwell

for showing up, and then when Zeal, myself, and Mirth have gotten into this recent conversation you disappear for OVER a day.

[Battousai]

In all honesty, I was only going to FOS Malex, then I noticed Grem didn't vote since then either. Must have missed Merc as well.

FOS: Merc

[Battousai]

I'm just pointing it out, because scum tend to like it when two townies go at it with each other. Grem, you think I'm scum, I get that since it's not anything new, but who else do you think is scum now?

[Battousai]

Merc

: Like I said before, the reason I didn't was because I was more concerned with Malex at the time. Then I noticed Grem hasn't talked so I added him. Then Mirth pointed out you have done the same so I gave you a FOS as well for the same reason as Malex and Grem.

Grem

: "also it seems to me like batto is trying to throw zeal under the bus, kind of like during D1 when he zeroed in on me, I guess my question is am I less scummy today for some reason? or wasn't I really that scummy D1 and now you have a better target?"

By throwing under the bus, do you mean pointing out everything she is doing that I find scummy? Then yes, I'm throwing her under the bus. I felt yesterday, we didn't have as much information to figure out who was scum, BUT you were the scummiest in my eyes and with the time constraint I felt more confident in your lynch. Now without the time constraint I feel less certain.

I'm rereading the last of yesterday and looked at prewagon of Mega for clues. These are all the things I found scummy. Obviously not everyone I will list is scum.

Mirth: Grem had the largest wagon, but Mirth comes up with lynching Nahraza. Reason being, she didn't feel Grem was scum and wanted to see more of an interaction between myself and Grem. This was after Mod announces the need for Nah's replacement.

Malex: Comes in with an excuse for inactivity during deadline. Then leaves without imput

Mirth: Brings up Mega being active in GD and not here.

Grem: Votes mega to save his own behind

Zeal: With 35 hrs to go, votes Mega

Kristopf: Doesn't even show up

After reading the last pages of D1, I've come up with two contradictory conclusions on why Farside was killed that I feel somewhat confident in:

1) To frame Merc. Merc was really after Farside near the end of D1, and I find it to be a common theme among newbie scum to kill on that angle of Merc WANTING Farside dead.

2) Merc called for Farsides lynch, KNOWING no one would support him. Then he killed Farside in the kitchen with the rope, thinking he could play it off as a setup

[Battousai]

Battousai - After doing a read through of day 2 looking for reasons of your suspicion I have found that most of the things you have said

can be read into as scummy

. If it is

read with an assumption of your scummyness

, there is seeming to me to be more of a strong case . Keep in mind I am also reading this believing Mirth's Doctor claim.

You are basically saying that you are just assuming my guilt so you need to find reason to think so.

Starting from post 415 it seems most apparent to me.

Mod: Has Kristoph picked up the prod or are you looking for a replacement?

I

think

that Mirth is refering to why Farside was killed over me and her. If I was newb scum I would have killed Mirth first, unless she was my partner, and then probably Farside, as a Battousai lynch would probably be easier than a Farside at that point.

I don't see this as scummy, but rather as me basically saying that I would have killed Mirth first and then Farside. At the time we did not have Mirth claiming so all I knew is that there was a cop (meaning 2 goons and cop setup or goon/rb cop and doctor setup).

Mirth then brings up the idea of the doctor and Batto responds:

As I could not find any tells, the only way they would have known there to be a doctor or a cop is if there are two goons and no roleblocker.

You have been a member for over six months and you don't know the format of the game? Again this next post shows my point.

See my last point. The only information we had was that there was a cop. That is not definative in whether or not we have a RB.

If they had a roleblocker, then they wouldn't know for sure if there was a town power role. That is why I did not include it.

But they'd darn sure be considering it and act as if there were two of them just in case. Or do you not agree with me here?

Post 428

Activity has been dwindling, I would like more people to contribute. The convo me and Mirth is having isn't really scumhunting, so I think it's best we move on from that.

When the conversation continues, you dismiss that there is a Role Blocker again.

I meant the fact of RB using their ability or whether or not there is a RB, that's extraneous

This reads to me that not only are you scum, but you are the role-blocker.[/quote]

That reads as, discussing whether or not there was a RB is not important. We should have been scum hunting and not scum role hunting.

After Mirth's claim your next post is really defensive for seemingly no reason. Especially considering that no one was voting for you at the time. You then FoS the presumed Doctor and Super-FoS Zeal before changing to a vote your next post. You then end up FoSing everyone for the most part. Good way to draw attention away from yourself following that back and forth. I just find most of these posts questionable.
With all I have said I am leading towards a vote, but I still find it a bit premature. Just read through Day 2 looking at what Battosai is saying, and I think you may agree with me that if nothing else, those posts do seem to be the posts of someone trying to keep attention away from himself, and for that I have to ask why.

For one, I had one vote that was entirely WIFOM by Zeal. I FOS'd an UNCONFIRMED doc because, guess what, I didn't believe the claim that much. I don't think Mirth claiming has helped us at all. The only person who would have benefited from such a claim, IMO, is a scum team with Mirth in it. I SFOS for good reason. Zeal was basically following Mirth like a duckling and voting me on WIFOM. I then FOS 3 people who have seemed to drop from the radar (as mentioned I find it scummy when two people get into a conversation that someone just goes missing). Obviously not all the people I fos'd are scum, but that's why its a FOS.

Mirth: "Why not frame you with Grem?" I don't know, but I would assume to eliminate an IC. From some of the play by the newer players here, I'm starting to believe your claim Mirth, as ill- advised as I think it is.

Zeal: I wrote down everything that happened from my POV. The problem I had with Grem switching to the Mega wagon is because it seemed his only reason was because it was a wagon, and not because he thought Mega was scummy.

Right now I'm thinking the possible scum (before Kristopf gets replaced and we here from the replacement) are (in no particular order):

Zeal
Merc
Malex

[Battousai]

EBWOP: Sorry guys and gals, hit submit instead of preview. Should look like this in the middle:

If they had a roleblocker, then they wouldn't know for sure if there was a town power role. That is why I did not include it.

But they'd darn sure be considering it and act as if there were two of them just in case. Or do you not agree with me here?

Post 428

Activity has been dwindling, I would like more people to contribute. The convo me and Mirth is having isn't really scumhunting, so I think it's best we move on from that.

When the conversation continues, you dismiss that there is a Role Blocker again.

I meant the fact of RB using their ability or whether or not there is a RB, that's extraneous

This reads to me that not only are you scum, but you are the role-blocker.

That reads as, discussing whether or not there was a RB is not important. We should have been scum hunting and not scum role hunting.

[Battousai]

The only reason not to FOS Kristopf was because Kristopf was being replaced, thus not sitting out of the convo. Malex, would you think it would be scummy for me to FOS the three of you for defending each other just because three of you did it?

[Battousai]

I think it's kind of ironic that your saying I'm distracting the town by FOSing three people for acting scummy, IMO (not the entire town as Mirth, zeal, and kristopf/replacement were not FOS'd in the same manner. Seemed together due to few posts inbetween.) where as you are going on about over FOS'ing would be considered distraction from my end.

My votes should tell you everything about my suspicion. I wouldn't normally place a vote on someone who I felt was town (excluding reactionary voting). So when I put the vote on Zeal, it's because at the time I felt she was pretty suspicious.

[Battousai]

It was only ironic because you said it was distracting, not before. The only reason I asked you a question about something I think you are talking too much about (as in taking it the wrong way) is because I felt the need to defend myself from something that I feel is wrong.

You also did not answer the question. The question was meant to give an example of something that would fall under the same line as me "FOS'ing everyone".

Also I do not like how you word this: "I am curious to hear what everyone else that was FoSed by Battosai thinks about my last few posts. Am I on to something, just on crack, or something in between? I am also extending an invite to hear what AK47 thinks,

despite not being on Batto's list

. "

Do you think that someone who requires replacement be held accountable for being gone? While normally I would say yes, but in this circumstance, we already knew the person was being replaced, thus should be excused for being gone for the time AFTER us being told this. The reason I do not like how you word it is because it sounds like you think it's suspicious that I left him off.

[Battousai]

Mirth- The action that I FoS'd him for can not be taken away by posting more (I was suspicious of him for being gone at a CERTAIN time). From his recent posts, he has gotten scummier to me.

[Battousai]

activity is going back to a crawl again...

Hey Zeal, you've been quiet for a bit. What do you think of the current Batto/Malex interaction?

Why don't you answer that as well?

[Battousai]

Grem, I don't like how you ask Mirth to vote me, it's like your eager to lynch me.

[Battousai]

Ok, I'll try this again (internet lost connection last time). D2 has had many mistakes made, which allows the scum mistakes to hide between them. With Kristopf/AK not posting, makes getting a read on them very difficult. So I'm just going to post some suspicious pairs. Right now I can see a Mirth/Zeal pair and a Malex/Zeal pair. Merc has also been a little suspicious today as well. Gremwell, looked good for a D1 deadline lynch, but with today's posts I don't think I would support his lynch right now. So I'm happy with my original vote on Zeal.

The vote against me by Grem seems to be a little OMGUS from me singling him out D1 and getting a wagon formed by him (You have a reason, but I think you are narrowing in on me based on my D1 vote). Zeal's case was the fact that I'm still alive D2 which is BS. I really don't know Merc's or Mirth's cases that well to comment on them. So, what do you guys think?

[Battousai]

It's just lately. I'm starting to build a case against Zeal's parroting. Noteing how it's scummy and then Malex comes in and puts pressure on me for FoSing 3 people for not being active during a convo. Honestly this is from memory, there may be posts in between, but I'm just trying to get some conversation going and keep this game alive.

Why is a Malex/Zeal pair very unlikely? Is there anything either Malex of Zeal done that would automatically say to you definately not a scum pair?

[Battousai]

It's more of like a chainsaw defense, I'll have to do a reread to confirm it, but basically he's attacking someone's accuser out of the blue, effectively leading the discussion away from zeal and towards myself.

Now I have a question for EVERYONE. What do you guys think about lynching an empty chair (AK/Zeal)? Are you for it if you feel the person is scummy, or do you feel like you have to wait for the chair to be filled to get a defense out of the person? I asked a similar question in another game and they thought I was implying that I wanted to lynch an empty chair, so I'm just going to say I'm trying not to imply how I feel here.

[Battousai]

Grem: No, because to me, her claim didn't help the town, in fact it hurt us. Mirth said she was certain that the scum would roleblock her again, so she claimed. Now the scum KNOWS she's the doc and will roleblock/kill her tonight if she is the doc. The only thing I can see that was gained would be if Mirth was scum, because she has claimed a powerrole and no one has countered it (possibly because there is no doc in the game). Now, I don't find Mirth all too scummy, so her past actions do give credit to her claim.

[Battousai]

Welcome ClockworkRuse. Quick question, we think there is a doc in the game. Are you the doc?

[Battousai]

CR: This is from memory (it's 3am here and I'm too tired to hunt it down to double check). The certain time I was refering to was the argument/conversation I had with Mirth. I gave malex and the others a FOS instead of a HOS or worse because I was mainly noteing it and it wasn't all too scummy because the argument/conversation wasn't heated. The reason I said it was suspicious is because scum (it's in my scum playbook) tend to stay back and let two townies go at it.

Everybody: If deadline was 2 days away and there were no votes yet, who would you vote for? I would vote Zeal.

[Battousai]

Then why not vote no lynch or not vote at all? A vote on Mirth, as you suggest, would just be a wasted vote.

[Battousai]

Merc: I answered that right after I asked the question, Zeal. What has Grem done that was scummy D2? I haven't seen him really do anything all too suspicious today.

CR: The vote would be a wasted vote, as in you know it will not result in her lynch. Thus pointless (a FOS would suffice). Of course this is all hypothetical and gameplay. Not an indicator of scumminess so I'll drop it.

What do you feel about everyone else, besides Mirth. Since your reread, the only thing you've been focusing on is Mirth and asking questions. Now asking questions does spark conversations, but it doesn't really help me get a feel on you since your predecessors weren't very active.

[Battousai]

Ok, we need to pick up discussion guys, deadline in 1 week and we need to lynch scum today or else lylo tomorrow.

CR: I asked how you felt about everyone, besides Mirth. You only commented on Grem. You should have read the thread already since you did an analysis. How do you feel about Malex, Merc, and Zeal?

[Battousai]

What about Zeal, Mirth? Zeal basically voted me because I was still alive so shouldn't she be up there in scumminess?

[Battousai]

But what I don't get, she does the same thing as Merc, yet you don't find her scummy...

[Battousai]

Malex really hasn't been talking much lately, in fact he hasn't posted since the 18th from what I can tell.

Mod: Can we get a prod on Malex

Because of this fact, though, I do not think Malex is lurking during the recent posts between us 3 just to watch us go at it. He's been inactive too long for that.



We have until the 7th to come to a lynch. That being said, I'm going to list my top 3 suspects and I hope you all do the same.


Zeal- parroting, wanting to lynch me for still being alive

Merc- I see Mirth's point now, and I guess I find Merc being scummy for pushing Mirth for being scummy and at the same time not taking a definative stance

CR- Kristopf's inactivity is one thing, and when CR came in, he did a reread but seemed to stay focused on one player after his initial read-through post. As a replacement I find this odd since he had 20 pages of scummy things to point out from several players.

[Battousai]

I don't know... CR starts to believe Mirth's claim after she votes him. Is that a way for him to defend against her accusations?

CR, you never did post your top 3 suspects and why.

[Battousai]

Btw, -insert question about power roles here-

That's it, your scum....

Anyways, deadline is fast approaching less 5 days I think. So I'm willing to switch my vote to either Merc or CR to get a majority vote. I would really like to know everyone else's opinion. Also, I'm going to check and see if Malex has posted anywhere else recently.

[Battousai]

EBWOP: Malex hasn't posted on this site since Jul 18th. He needs replaced as well as Zeal.

[Battousai]

The problem with that last post, Grem, it's somewhat contradictory to D1. You admitted that the only reason you voted mega was self preservation. Where as if you are protown and not a powerrole, your lynch would have given us plenty of information based on your flip. This somewhat contradicts your recent post where you say (paraphrasing) it's ok to mislynch, it happens and it's part of the game. And you say if your lynch would help the town win your all for it. You had a chance to do that, yet you weren't for it. It's a lot different when your the one being lynched, huh?

[Battousai]

We don't know now do we. Like you said, we do get info from lynches. I'd probably have more suspicion on me if you were lynched, BUT scum could have jumped on the wagon as well.

[Battousai]

Why are you voting Merc? It's helpful for everyone and especially the lynchee, that you give reasons for the vote.

[Battousai]

UNVOTE, VOTE: CR

I was all willing to lynch Merc if my vote would mean lynch Merc or lynch no one as he is in my top 3.

Re-read of Merc, as I feel it is necessary.

Posts regarding TSQ are starting to stand out, because even after an active player joined that game and gave their opinion, he continuelly attacked her with little logic.

You say you reread merc. You obviously missed where he defended himself when he attacked Farside and his attacks. He said the reason he found the TSQ suspicious was not just because of him being inactive, but also his posts where he said "Hi" and not answering questions (I was suspicious of that as well, if TSQ had the time to say hi he could at least contribute at least a little bit).

I think I might have said this before but, I REALLY did not like the Mega lynch. You lynched a player based on the trolling actions of another IC, but this is where I start to feel worried and why I felt that Mega was lynched because she was suspicious of Mirth.

First off, what? Mega replaced a newbie. Second, Mega was lynched (at least from my stand point) because he refused to remove his vote off of Mirth. His vote was on Mirth because of the TSQ-Mirth exchange in the beginning, but got it BACKWARDS and should have voted Farside based on his logic, and for being active elsewhere and not in the game that was right at deadline. Lastly, why are you repeating the fact you didn't like a mislynch you were not apart of? To me it sounds like your distancing from the lynch and I just don't like it.

IIRC, Mega was barely given anytime to explain her vote and this says to me that Merc voted Mega with little reasoning other then 'Mirth is in danger!' And if that isn't his reasoning, it's a very opportunistic vote all the same.

Look at above quote concerning the Mega lynch.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:19 pm Malex: It seemed to me that Batto's use of FoS is more of a play style thing. The only thing that really matters to the game is a vote, whereas Batto (IMO) uses FoS almost like a summary. Not the way I (plan to) play the game, but I don't really have too much of a problem with it.

AK47x2: Boo!

[quote="Merc] Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:46 pm

In all honesty, I was only going to FOS Malex, then I noticed Grem didn't vote since then either. Must have missed Merc as well.

FOS: Merc

I find it amusing that you FOS me only after Mirth tells you to do so. Can you give the court your reasoning why you think I'm suspicious? I've already stated my opinion that Mirth's reasoning behind thinking I'm scum is flimsy approaching non-existent, but all she wants to do is keep going with the "I think Merc is scum line". Got anything else yourself?

Contradictory posts.

No, they are not. Not only are the quotes out of the context (3 days passed, my answers to his question ignored, and the two quotes not in sequence) but I think by themselves not to contradictory. He says my FOS's are like summaries, and my summary of him was that he was scummy. He asked why I thought he was scummy. Ya, I don't see the contradiction.

[Battousai]

CR: Where's your defense of my post? You said you would post about it better yesterday, but all you posted was what IIRC means.

[Battousai]

We don't have too much time. We have to come to a conclusion quickly as deadline is approaching.

[Battousai]

I'm going to make my list of scum. This is all from memory, and I'll need a reread of latest posts before it becomes more accurate, especially the reasonings at bottom.

1) Grem
2) Malex
3) Zeal
4) Merc

2 and 3 are about equal right now.

1) Grem: Didn't bother to revote at deadline, which would have resulted in no lynch

2) Malex: Last to vote, seemingly at last second to save town from a no lynch. The thing is, if he didn't vote he would have been my top suspect for not voting anyone at the end of the day so it helped him if he was scum. Then post 647 where he is assuming scum would not want to vote their partner. That leaves zeal, merc, and Grem. Two of which he later mentions Mirth had assumptions about. WIFOM?

3) Same reasonings as yesterday. Parroting, not forming too many opinions based on own reasonings. At the end of the day, kept vote on me which could have cost us a no lynch.

4) Merc is the only person I trust the most right now. CR was really after Merc yesterday. It could be that he was bussing, as I believe Merc was heading towards lynch (almost everyone FoS'ng or saying he was scummy), but I think he was just going for the easy lynch. That and I did not find Merc all too scummy D1.


Now we have 2 days to get 1 scum. We really need to buckle down today as I would like to avoid Lylo.

[Battousai]

WIFOM: Your case that Mirth died so that Zeal or Mirth would have one less person to worry about is WIFOM. The reason I'm putting so much emphasis on it, is because you don't lay out other options (a set up kill or kill most active scumhunter...)

Hammer Vote: Not voting at deadline, especially when not on V/LA (Grem), would be extremely scummy, so the only choice would have been to kill a scum partner (decent chance of being killed next day), appear suspicious by placing a wasted vote, or not to vote at all.

Past Suspicion: I'm not going after you for what you said before. I find that to be very unhelpful to the town. I picked what you said, plus actions at end of D2 to decide that you are where your at on my scum list.

If there is one thing I have been trying to use all game, it is my good friend logic. I ask you, does it logically make sense for me to act this way if I was scum?

I do not like this quote. It's a basic if I was scum, would I do that? The answer, if a townie would do it, then a scum may do it.

I still want to know what everyone thinks in regards to my posting of my suspicions of Zeal.

All in all, your suspicion of Zeal is not off based, and indeed has some merit.

[Battousai]

The reason I ended up voting CR was because his posts (especially about Mirth) seemed off. That topped with his case against Merc having so many holes, put him way ahead of everyone else on my scumdar.

*More tomorrow

[Battousai]

Grem: Don't you think it's possible CR was just trying to buss Merc and got caught? As you said, Merc was probably going to be lynched (placed your vote on him before you left to make sure there was a hammer).

[Battousai]

Zeal also brought this up in her post right after this one. I am not fully understanding how that statement can't be used all the time on anything anyone does. If a townie would say something, then a scum may say something too? I guess that is reasonable to say. I just see that as a blanket statement anyone could make at anytime if they see something they feel like reading into.

What I'm trying to say, is that it is not a valid defense and actually I find if you use it AS a defense it appears a little scummy.

[Battousai]

Vote: Malex

, I haven't like your play today. You seem to read into things (which is good at times), but ultimately you don't really pursue them based on the reaction of everyone else. I know this is a newbie game, but in the end you can't trust ANYONE. The IC's CAN lie to you (not about technical stuff and how to play), and your own instincts and judgement is the only thing you can depend on.

[Battousai]

Oops, forgot to proofread my last post. As Malex pointed out, his play today does not match up with the reason I gave. Instead of today, in my post, in should read "this game." I do agree that you have seemed to progress out of that state of wanting approval today, but from the past days I draw that conclusion.

Now on to your defense. Your being a little overdefensive (which is a null tell, as I also can be overdefensive when protown), but what really sticks out is the you'll be sorry bit your trying to pull. THAT's a little scummy to me. As town, you would try to prove your innocence, not use emotion to try to persuade others.

What I don't get is, where do you get the impression that I said you were defending yourself and that was bad?

[Battousai]

any opinions on my vote?

[Battousai]

Grem: What do you think about my vote?

[Battousai]

Mith, has Grem picked up his prodd yet?

[Battousai]

Grem: How do you feel about my vote on Malex and his response? Do you agree with Malex that I'm focusing on one poing of his play while ignoring everything protown he has done?




Also ignore my last post, I missed Grem's last post.

[Battousai]

Ok, no one has posted since Friday.... I was waiting on Zeal, but I feel we need to move on until zeal desides to post.

UNVOTE, Vote: Grem

, same reasons I voted you D1, plus you seem to be going inactive/lurking.

[Battousai]

I'll answer that later in the day, after I find something out.

[Battousai]

Zeal: For the main part yes, but what I meant by gracefully was that he wanted to lynch someone, IIRC, for being anti-town and didn't care that the person could be protown. That person was Nahraza. That was my original vote which was a deadline vote. When I did vote Grem, he OMGUS voted me which made my vote seem more justified at deadline.

[Battousai]

Can we get an updated scum list from everybody?

Grem
Malex
Zeal
Merc

[Battousai]

Is anyone going to make a list of of scum like I did?

[Battousai]

It makes it easier

Merc I can almost answer your question, I almost got the results I need.

[Battousai]

Ok, lets try this again (computer messed up).

My Play today has been mainly trying to gauge reactions. First, I voted Malex. I really don't see Merc as scum so it was between Malex, Grem, and Zeal. I went with Malex, because I felt I could get more reactions out of that vote. The two main reactions I got were from Zeal and Malex. Malex seemed to be overdefensive, even resulted in name calling. Zeal's reaction is what sparked the rest of my play. It seemed that Zeal went after Malex for my reasons alone. Why? Was it because she likes to follow the IC's (first mirth, now me), did she just want to go with the strongest case at the time, or maybe she really thought Malex was scummy. So to figure this out, I had to make another vote.

So, I voted Grem for little reasoning. If Zeal was to follow me and move Grem to #2 or #1 on her list, she would be following me. If she was to stick with Malex, she could be going with the strongest case or trying to stick with her initial reasonings to not appear to be jumping around. From her list and other posts, I have deduced that she is sticking with her inital vote. The reason I say that, is because she still has Malex as her top suspect, even though her reasons she came up with were disproved.

Unvote

,

FoS: Zeal

[Battousai]

voting isn't everything zeal.

No one has done anything scummier in 3 days? You could have followed it just because I'm an IC, so if I made the case weak and you followed it would prove that.

The reaction from the first vote, was you going after Malex after I did and still keeping him at the top of your list, even though the reasons you brought up were successfully defended by Malex.

[Battousai]

Ya the last list I made was madeup to get zeal to post her list. Grem is nearer the bottom of my list, with Zeal on top, followed by Malex.

Grem, Malex: opinions?

[Battousai]

Vote:Zeal

, since deadline is coming and I think you are the scummiest. That's L-1. if you have a power role you need to claim.

Malex, where's that post at?

Merc: Why don't you just post it as if there are two scum, then other people (scum and town) can help you modify it for one person.

[Battousai]

tsk tsk merc, I use that gambit every once in awhile to try and get scum to claim a power role due to forgetting all powerroles have claimed.

[Battousai]

No, no, no. You have misread the options I lead out. One was that she would follow me, the other two relates to her not following me. If she didn't follow me (and she didn't) she is either forming her own opinions and open minded and what not (this is all paraphrase from what I wrote earlier when I first explained), or she went with the strongest case at the time, added some of her own points to appear to be contributing to the attack, and then sticking with the strongest person to lynch regardless of who it is (besides herself). I think it is the latter, because the points she brought up against you were defended against proved wrong. AND THAT is the option that I felt was the scummiest.

Malex: By all means, look at me, read my posts. When you realize that I'm the only person today that has really tried scumhunting intently (via gambit), regardless of it making me look scummy by default (something I feel scum would try to steer away from), you will realize I had/have the town's best interest in mind. The reason for the L-1 vote is for pressure, and to make sure someone get's lynched at deadline as it would be harder for two people (one of which had to be town), to place the finishing votes before deadline.

[Battousai]

I would really like Grem's response right now. It's no longer a hammer situation, so are you comfortable placing a L-1 vote on Zeal? Why?

[Battousai]

I agree with Zeal, on the holding of the hammer part not that I'm scum part.

Grem, could you please give us a case against Zeal? Your recent actions have me doubting your innocence.

[Battousai]

grem: it's all about information. If zeal followed me with attacking you, then I would know she likes to follow the ICs. That is not a scum tell as newbie town do that as well. I felt she was scummy for sticking with Malex, even though her own reasonings were disproven by Malex himself.

The only person trying to run the clock out is/was you and merc for not voting, but more you. You've been sitting back today for the most part, especially near deadline. I'm tempted to vote you, but doing so this close to deadline may end up with a no lynch or a lynch of myself.

[Battousai]

I really don't care if they are not satisified with the explanation. I made my point, explained it accurately, and it's up to each person to believe me or not to.

My reasons against Zeal have not been disproven like Zeal's was. You may INTERPRET it differently, but that doesn't mean it's disproven.

Now, what I want to say to help "defend" my gambit is that why would it be scummy to do it? Scum would try this gambit to get a mislynch, but look what has happened. A lot of attention has been laid on me, a big scum no-no. The risk of this attention outweighs the mislynch. A mislynch, which I might add, that scum-battousai could have easily gotten without a gambit. There was enough doubt on Zeal and with Malex's reaction to a vote, to garner 2 more votes. On the whole, it would be bad scum play.

I think I'm going to be lynched, but that's ok. I think you guys can find the last scum without me. Just be more active, force activity if you have to, it's LYLO.

[Battousai]

And that is why I am bad at town. I can form a case that is pretty solid to me, but to everyone else, not so much.

Good game everyone. More discussion would have definately helped.

I think Zeal might have been lynched today if you guys went back all the way through the game and not just the CR lynch. Zeal, IMO, most scummy at the beginning days.

[Battousai]

The only thing that made me doubt whether or not Malex was town, was his reaction to my vote on him 2 days ago. Other than that I was debating whether or not it was Grem or Zeal, and that is why I went with the little maneuver to see what Zeal would do. It made sense to me at least, but oh well.