Newbie 1941 - Game over

[HoldenGolden]

Have some questions for everyone

1. What kind of experience do you have with Mafia?

2. How did you find out/get into MafiaScum?

3. How do you scumread people?

4. How do you townread people?

5. How do you play as town?

6. How do you play as scum?

There better be a chance to win a Amazon gift card after this survey. Especially since I just woke up and there is already 4 pages of game thread.

1. First game of forum mafia. Have played TOS (town of Salem) extensively, though 90% of the time, that's just a shit fest.

2. Was looking for less bullshit mafia and friend told me about this site.

3+4, by using guides that are probably outdated. I think however that I have a soild understanding of what counts as town motivation for posting versus scum. That to me is more important to find than feel based reads. Can scum mimic town behavior? Well yes no shit. But eventually they are going to have to act if they are going to when and that will expose it. I hope.

5+6, am I scum? Am I town? Prehaps I'm a serial killer this game.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh snap how did I miscount and not see Holden LOL

For shame! I get screwed over in real life economics, and now virtual ones too?

100 wagocoins that you are dead by day one for your mistake!

VOTE: Wagonomics

[HoldenGolden]

@Emps, Can you explain the Newb!mafia greet by Salty boy for me? I dont see what your seeing there.

Off the cuff, I actually like his first post followed up by his explanation on you. The early serious vote seems a genuine attempt to prod alignment info out of emps(you) instead of being a random vote to fit in. Not that I find it particularly correct.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh snap how did I miscount and not see Holden LOL

For shame! I get screwed over in real life economics, and now virtual ones too?

100 wagocoins that you are dead by day one for your mistake!

VOTE: Wagonomics

I am ok selling my investments and taking this bet if you're committed to a bet and not an investment! Not sure if you were really ready to use all your wagoncoins on this bet though

We can call it even by you giving me an extra 10 coins due to processing mistakes.

Otherwise you are forever-scum.

Take it or leave it.

Have some questions for everyone

1. What kind of experience do you have with Mafia?

2. How did you find out/get into MafiaScum?

3. How do you scumread people?

4. How do you townread people?

5. How do you play as town?

6. How do you play as scum?

There better be a chance to win a Amazon gift card after this survey. Especially since I just woke up and there is already 4 pages of game thread.

1. First game of forum mafia. Have played TOS (town of Salem) extensively, though 90% of the time, that's just a shit fest.

2. Was looking for less bullshit mafia and friend told me about this site.

3+4, by using guides that are probably outdated. I think however that I have a soild understanding of what counts as town motivation for posting versus scum. That to me is more important to find than feel based reads. Can scum mimic town behavior? Well yes no shit. But eventually they are going to have to act if they are going to when and that will expose it. I hope.

5+6, am I scum? Am I town? Prehaps I'm a serial killer this game.

You are neither scum nor town, i am RAS, and RAS knows all. filthy jester.

Jokes aside, actual answer to 5 and 6 please?

Jester would be fun rn wont lie.

As either alignment I would try to be active and working into a position of influence. The only difference I would guess I would have is as scum I'd try to keep some suspicion alive on me to warrant an excuse to life and prepare more for the long game as opposed of taking things day by day as town.

Kinda a really hard question to answer since I have no history but there you go.

[HoldenGolden]

I don’t like the wagonomics Schlick because I think It distracts from Hunting. I am Confident without meta that it is NAI. I’m not going to be Playing however.

Nah I found scum if he doesnt credit me 10 extra coins. System works.

[HoldenGolden]

I don’t like the wagonomics Schlick because I think It distracts from Hunting. I am Confident without meta that it is NAI. I’m not going to be Playing however.

Nah I found scum if he doesnt credit me 10 extra coins. System works.

Is this a bribery?
Or a blackmailery?

Worse,
Capitalism

[HoldenGolden]

@Emps, Can you explain the Newb!mafia greet by Salty boy for me? I dont see what your seeing there.

Off the cuff, I actually like his first post followed up by his explanation on you. The early serious vote seems a genuine attempt to prod alignment info out of emps(you) instead of being a random vote to fit in. Not that I find it particularly correct.

Woopsie missed this my b.
Anyways the newb!scum meta tell has ariund an 80% chance of being correct
Ill tell you what it is once every newb checks in

Also, random votes are to prod alignment lol thats kinda the point

Lol I got that part. I guess I shall wait on this till the other newbs check in

[HoldenGolden]

Sorry, I realized after the Fact that two of my ketchup posts had Already been explained/answered.

Alright I’m up to speed. Very soft leans from a speed Read:
Town: emps, Cyrus
Scum: NaCl

What do you make of Satly boy's explaintion for his vote?

[HoldenGolden]

Sorry, I realized after the Fact that two of my ketchup posts had Already been explained/answered.

Alright I’m up to speed. Very soft leans from a speed Read:
Town: emps, Cyrus
Scum: NaCl

What do you make of Satly boy's explaintion for his vote?

Um. Id say its NAI

Mainly voting him off the newb!scum thingy

That was for Guy Fawkes mask dude.

Side note, I really hope you become so universally town read that scum shoots you. I'm going to drink if I have to read you ISO (I think that's what its called) later given your tendency to post.

[HoldenGolden]

I don't like Emps' posts very much, my vote is serious.

Show work/explain.

First thing that jumped out to me was the comment on so many SE's. I thought it was nervous scum with another newbie partner, but upon rereading I'm not so sure.

Aside from that, he posts a lot but I don't find it to be helpful. This is after the initial accusation, but 120 is particularly useless. And the questions aren't something I think is useful for discussion, or at least I don't see anything I'd really care to ask about in it.

Do you think it's just EMPS way of trying to spark discussion? Is there anything else than post 120 that shows mafia intent on your end?

I ask because I feel the same in regards to EMPS expect I see it as someone eager to start the game rather than mafia trying to throw off the game.

[HoldenGolden]

How is 120 something with mafia intent

I think its just memeing

Although probs bias coming from me lol

I'm asking him is there any other post than 120 where he feels you are mafia. Being spamming/useless isnt really enough to make some scum imo.

WhY YoU nO lIkE cApS oN yOuR nAmE? dO yOu PrEfEr It LiKe EmPs Or PiMpPy EmPpY?

[HoldenGolden]

I don't think it has intent to confuse. I think it could be an attempt to appear to be contributing.

What I'm getting at is what about the way he is contributing (or appearing to) makes it more likely to come from scum than town here? Especially since cyrus had posted quite a lot at that point as well and imo has been equally effective given their post count.

Wait Holden, how are you able to post in this game? I thought only people in the game can actually post...

Ha Ha Ha

Give me 10 wagnocoins right now for making a crappy joke Pimppy Emppy, or else you will also be forever scum.

[HoldenGolden]

[quote="In post 145,

Wait Holden, how are you able to post in this game? I thought only people in the game can actually post...

Ha Ha Ha

Give me 10 wagnocoins right now for making a crappy joke Pimppy Emppy, or else you will also be forever scum.

I'm the one making the crappy joke?

Yes, now pay the joke fine or get lynched after your mafia buddy wagonomics gets it.

[HoldenGolden]

NaCl, what's your opinion on cyrus?

[HoldenGolden]

I am town leaning salty boi till later notice.

His follow up on Emps feels as it is coming from a town perspective. I'm having trouble explaining it, but basically: he isnt trying to convince anyone else that emp is scum. Rather, he is focused on questioning emps to further his read. Moreover, sort of what teacher said, he didnt leave an out if he was scum for this emp vote and read. He could of easily hide behind RVS if he wanted to as scum. Instead, he didnt, and commented to the read when the thread felt emps was townread and wasnt fully populated yet.

If anyone disagrees, speak up now. Discussions are welcomed as long as it isnt stupid.

[HoldenGolden]

THATS the "scum!newbie tell"?

I'm fully and extensively disappointed.

[HoldenGolden]

what is that one archetype?

Basically the "tongue in cheek roleplayer"

It's the same type of player that when asked to roleclaim will say "vanilla" rather than "vanilla town"

or

"I'm sorry we're not same alignment" when pushing a mislynch

Basically every other thing they say is true if they are scum, but they always imply they're town.

I actually did this in one of my scum games cause it's really funny. Sorry about the language, but I would insist "I'm fucking town!" ... which was supposed to be a strong assertion that I'm town, but in my mind was more just an accurate description of what I was doing

Shit

Spoiler:

https://media.giphy.com/media/cMEGmZIMTJI7m/giphy.gif
Getaway.mp3

[HoldenGolden]

THATS the "scum!newbie tell"?

I'm fully and extensively disappointed.

honestly, when i first heard about it i was like

"this is total and utter bs why is this a thing"

It really honestly does because that probably is utter horseshit.

Anyways, about your list post.

So you have not found any other scummy things from other players at all? Nothing tonal stands out to you?

[HoldenGolden]

Oh oh oh, you really think I cant tunnel the shit out of you and get you lynched Wagnomics?

You underestimated my stubbornness. All in if you want to take it.

[HoldenGolden]

Let's talk scum.

In this game there is two. However, one has outed themselves out quite early. This person is of course, the one, the only, wagonomics.

Yes yes, this might be hard for you to accept. But even with a few posts I have discovered this. Let me open your eyes.

5-6: Generally as scum I work at forming a core of people townreading me/deep pockets, whereas as town I try to do as little leading as possible until I feel like the game is in a readable state. It's hard to explain but I do think that the key to scumplay is getting townread by the 'right' people whereas the key to townplay is not just solving but solving in a way where your solve will be accepted by the town.

This is his response to Emp. Harmless right? Wrong. This is actually the biggest slip in mafia history right now in this game thread (trademark waiting). Here, he admits that as scum he wants to be in high regards with town. He wants to be townread by the 'right' people.

How do you get townread you ask.

You post list!

Towncore - emps / cyrus62

Townlean with reservations: HoldenGolden

Null/town: NaCl

Wide PoE/Null:
Teacher (SE)
Jackal711 (SE)
Kaniffee
RedFlavor (SE)

This is a useless post and a clear scene of scum!wag trying to buddy up by introducing this town core idea. He is already town reading those he feel are town to the thread in order to blend in. His list however lacks any investigation into scum however. Nor does any of his post seem aggressive or inquisitive at all. He wants to blend in. Why? He already said it himself.

If I had to guess a scum buddy, its emppy pimply. Made a list post too and is too eager on this coin business (and not because I am bias against emps)

Vote Wagonomics. Change the thread.

[HoldenGolden]

Hahaha wagon scumslip

?

Duuuude, please read the case on you

Won't do him any good. He is clearly scum.

[HoldenGolden]

Actually, cyrus feels like he could be wagonomics scum buddy. Gimme a second

[HoldenGolden]

I dont like cyrus read and read progression on emp at all. Each one of his posts feel as he isnt confident enough to flat out scumlean emps. Rather, he keeps restating similar reasons for his suspicions. For reference, read the bolded in the spoiler below.

Spoiler:

ok posting a few more thoughts so here go's ... i

geting kinda a scum feeling from emps its like he wants every one to think hes more town then others. but again i could just be reading to much in to things

.

realy wondering how emps and wagon guy are helping find scum all i see is post after post of non since getting tired of it give others a chance to talk so i can read them mate

.

on a diffent topic

emps is buging me but i could just be getting mad

cuse i cant stop hearing about dog the bounty hunters wife from my wife and it just bugs me to no end . rl is lame sometimes i wish i could just jump in to a game ...


but i dont know for sure. and now emps is talking again when i am trying to post really want to use duct tape so i can get a word in.

In each, you can see his tone feels shaky. He constantly backtracks everytime he calls out Emps. This feels highly suspicious to me as it is exactly what I would picture mafia doing right now. Furthermore. If you look at how he engages emps in between these posts, it does not look like he is really interested in further his read on emps (compared to NaCl). That to me makes me really happy to place a scum lean on him.

Not scummy as wagonomics, but he gets upgrade to sidekick status right now.

[HoldenGolden]

holdem feels kinda scummy to me pointing fingers.. post blocked by red gives red wet willy my birth day july 27 1987

I've only suspected wagonomics and now you. I'd hardly call that FoS.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: wagonomicsVOTE: Cyrus62
Nothing wrong with pressuring your scum buddy, right wagonomics?

Holden are you serious about the wagonomics wagon or is this just for the sweet, sweet wagoncoins?

i think the recent ones from cyrus is just him trying to tell me to stfu and stop cluttering the thread.

He made his lynch personal.

My point with Cyrus is that it looks like he is feeling out a lynch for you. His posts keep bringing you up while maintaining suspicions, yet, that's all they do. At least to me that feels scummy

[HoldenGolden]

So do you think scum Emps and Cyrus? I was starting to see them both as slightly town. I'm going to go and re-read the entire thing in a few hours to go see, I'm mostly just checking in on the latest posts.

Emps read was due to wagonomics being scum. Dont personally feel he is scum, and he is gone from my PoE till cyrus looks better or is lynched (at which I will reevaluate depending on what happens.

[HoldenGolden]

takes 40 coins off emp and puts them on holdem as scum and changes red to town bet instead of scum. ties emps hands behind his back. no he said i may be wagons scum buddy because i said i like him.

That's not at all what I said. No where I said that I think you are wagons scum buddy because you said you liked him. It's clearly about your stance on Emps, which shows you didnt even read my read on you before this post.

[HoldenGolden]

alll i am saying in regards to emps is i dont see how his post help us find scum and that is'nt very town like feels more like he rather joke around then to look for scum.

also im getting in a mood thanks to this beth stuff.

No, you very clearly said that you thought he was scummy and have no otherwise stated a different read. Then you posted that stuff.

If you read on him has changed, feel free to express it.

[HoldenGolden]

wait why was i SLed/SRed due to you thinking wagonomics is scum?

what part of assocciation is there

Talking the piss because you didnt give me those 10 coins.

[HoldenGolden]

ok gets a rope and starts getting it ready for me lol go ahead mate i anit scared to be lynchd .

Your defensiveness over this only makes me feel better lynching you.

[HoldenGolden]

Cyrus is town.

Feel free to explain.

[HoldenGolden]

i cant post a defense if no one quits posting every 10 seconds so i anit going to bother to try so do as you wish.

If your town, this is extreme and pointless.
If your scum, well played on the emotional play.

You are going to get suspected in this game. That's the whole point of the game. Do I think your scummy, yes. But I'm not going to tunnel fuck you quite yet.

I'm willing to hear you out, but please, stop the poor pity me talk with the "go ahead and lynch me" mentality and post. I'll even wait till 8:30 PM to post again.

[HoldenGolden]

Cyrus, could you respond to this?

holdem feels kinda scummy to me pointing fingers.. post blocked by red gives red wet willy my birth day july 27 1987

And I was feeling pretty good about you before this post...what's scummy about how holdem's accusing people?

i feel as if holdem was accuseing wagon for no reason other then to try to get coins and he wasn't really looking for scum just complying alot and then saying i was scum becuse i was hasing emps to try to post more i cant get a word in. every post on emps is a joke lol if you note i didnt change him from town to scum but i did say holdem is more scummy and placed a bet on him and im not worried about being lychd becuse we wont lose from a day 1 one mis lynch

ok posting a few more thoughts so here go's ... i geting kinda a scum feeling from emps its like he wants every one to think hes more town then others. but again i could just be reading to much in to things .

^that is the quote that I am most suspicious about.

Here you:
-Call Emps scummy
-Have a way to back out of it
-end up being up in the air for his read

Then later:
-havent prod or question emps in order to gather more info in order to get a better read on him
-keep bring emps up and complaing about him
-and generally do not seem interested in following up on your suspicions.

And after my post
-got defensive
-scum read me
-and now peacing out.

My wagonomics case was banter and should be obvious that it is given the bet in the thread between me and him.

If you dont want to work together than fine, be that way. A mislynch might not end the game if your town, but it will hurt us. Not only that, but if you really are town, your flip will be useless for us afterwards because you are in shutdown mode other than allowing the actual scum to Prehaps push me. But I'm not going to waste my time trying to nurse you back up in a game where this is to be expected. I'm not trying to get into a shitfeast with you and trash the thread, but I'm on that verge of doing so because of this.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm taking a 15 minute tea break to clear my mood rn. I rather you condense everything into one post emps is you do a case (or two, one town or scum) just so it's easier to read.

I'm still want to hear that explaintion on town!cyrus red

[HoldenGolden]

My tea break turned into a cleaning session. I swear, my future wife can complain about a lot. But at least I'm productive when I'm not in the best of moods.

Emps, what about that post of yours where you liked him because of how he was paranoid of being buddies? How does that feel now after everything?

[HoldenGolden]

ok will now start a slight defence if i have to most of my thoughts is me asking for others thoughts now i will mount a defence even though i dont see how much of it is scumy to state i was getting annoyd at how much you post it is me just posting my feelings any way i am still trying to get a read on folks i when i was teaseing red we was still in rvs mode for one thing and i was mostly trying to get them to talk more most and all of what i was saying about emps is me teaseing him for spaming cuse every time i try to post i have to re read everything and that gets old.. but ok now what else to say...

Ok,

I want to know when you are collected and read to give one, what is your current read on Emps.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the later two posts in my original post and say that's you voicing that you find emps annoying and is not mafia inclined. I'm still suspicious about your post where you are flippy on Emps earlier on.

[HoldenGolden]

I want to say something, yet I'm going to wait and everyone's stance on this.

I will say this though, even though it's useless at this stage, there is no way Emps and Cyrus are ever on a scum team together at this point. The way the two have been interacting in the thread shows that imo.

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: cyrus cases(this is like mostly scum will do some town ones later

Oh yeah, also what are everyones timezones/regular posting hours?

Mine are UTC+7 (i think maybe UTC+8)
Im on V/LA (vacation/limited access)
So expect them to vary
But i can probs post every morning and evening/night at least

did you remember to tell the mod your on v/la


im not to sure my time zone but its 4 30 am now i post when ever day noon night when ever i can

well i always find honesty is the best policy unless i have something to hide for example i would have lied at least once if i was scum lol i thought i gave diffent answers already

this is a suggestion of Lynch All Liars, where you, well, lynch all liars. ill probs pull a few posts of him contradiciting himself later on here

im getting confused quickly okay i am answering the best i can mate . maybe i should state this is my 2nd forum game completely so i aniit to sure how to find scum yet k. i guise i would try to pocket people and bus more town read more scum read more and town lean more as to try to throw others off but maybe i wouldn't post much maybe i would wait hours and post only after every one else try to draw as little attention to my self as i could,

so, pocketing, focused on staying a TL not anything else, and lurk?

You really dont seem like the type of guy to lurk as either alignment.

If you lurked as scum itd be a dead giveaway seeing as how much you post

Also you keep mentioning that this is your second game. Im asking multiple first timers to answer the same exact questions, and i do not want basically the same answer for 5 and 6 from them either.

yes you got it

yes you got it is very vague, and he only responded once i asked him to clarify. I made 3 points that couldve been "gotten"

im getting confused quickly okay i am answering the best i can mate . maybe i should state this is my 2nd forum game completely so i aniit to sure how to find scum yet k. i guise i would try to pocket people and bus more town read more scum read more and town lean more as to try to throw others off but maybe i wouldn't post much maybe i would wait hours and post only after every one else try to draw as little attention to my self as i could,

so, pocketing, focused on staying a TL not anything else, and lurk?

You really dont seem like the type of guy to lurk as either alignment.

If you lurked as scum itd be a dead giveaway seeing as how much you post

Also you keep mentioning that this is your second game. Im asking multiple first timers to answer the same exact questions, and i do not want basically the same answer for 5 and 6 from them either.

yes you got it

What did i get? The fact that, odds are you lied about you probably lurking as scum?

i said how i would play as scum i would lurk and try to pocket more and give more reads so cant come up with a better answer then i did any way .

There is no way you would lurk as scum, it'd be a dead giveaway. cant say why due to ongoing games.

Alright let's walk you guys through this. You may think that we're playing mafia, but I'm playing Wagonomics. I want to have the most WAGONCOINS at the end of the game!

At the START of the game, everyone gets 100 Wagoncoins. You have 100 wagoncoins! And you have 100 wagoncoins! Everyone has 100 wagoncoins!

From there, there are two uses of wagoncoins. You can either choose to INVEST in a wagon. You may put your wagon coins into that wagon and if the slot flips RED, you will get double your investment back! Huzzah!

Or you can choose to ACCEPT a bet.

For example, here is an opening BET

I bet 50 Coins that Wagononomics will NOT be alive on day 3

Now that I have offered the best, anyone can choose to accept the bet! Put up your own 50 wagon coins if you think I WILL be alive on day 3!

Note that while investments can be SOLD at any time, BETS cannot be cancelled once made!

I will also start an initial INVESTMENT
VOTE: Jackal711

Since this is a RANDOM investment, I am only INVESTING

5 wagoncoins

.

this sounds like fun ok i bet 60 that red is scum and 40 that emps is town ps i like you

what was the ps i like you at the end for? a pocket attempt?

so emps ask him the questions i want to see how wagonomics answers

Alright, hello everyone, welcome to day 1!

VOTE: Emps

Have some questions for everyone

1. What kind of experience do you have with Mafia?

2. How did you find out/get into MafiaScum?

3. How do you scumread people?

4. How do you townread people?

5. How do you play as town?

6. How do you play as scum?

1. I haven't played in 4-5 years, but I used to play on GameFaqs and EpicMafia, so I'm aware of the general rules and stuff.
2. It came up before as I was searching for alternate places to play before. I didn't participate, but I enjoyed reading through finished games from time to time.
3 & 4. I don't think I can say any real rule to how to do this. I mostly sort of find people that I consider to be town and then look through the rest by process of elimination. I'll look through posts and try and decide if it would be more beneficial to be something someone's saying as scum or something someone's saying as town.
5. I'd say that I'm generally more hands off. I'm fairly quiet and mostly just talk when I have something to contribute.
6. Hopefully the same way as I play when town, except I have to fake my contributions to the discussion, of course.

Anyways, let's see about other stuff.
I don't really have anything to say about Wagonomics and his betting game, though I don't really care much for it.
I don't like Emps' posts very much, my vote is serious.
Hey, Cyrus, what do you think of emps' questions? Do you consider them useful?

thinks scratches bead yes i find them very useful just no when i feel pushed when i cant answer them the way he wants but other then that i think its like a ice breaker

he likes the questions, until, of course, he gets pressured by them? the whole point is to pressure...

Also just noticed

Newb!scum greeting

Gettem boyssss

VOTE: NaCL

was that a pocket attempt at me or was i seeing things

again, another way to back out if necessary (the "was i just seeing things")
also that was so not a pocket attempt and maybe a hopeful attempt of a wagon on NaCl and an early ML

ok off to bed good night peeps i maybe be over reacting i but i felt asking me like that was a attention grab but i may be over reacting.

another way to back out

fyi still waited on red to post since they like to over game but maybe they are hiding. this game.

another way to back out (the whole "they may be lurking")

question if Emps is like me "new" to here why dose he feel the need to tell other new guys how to play shouldn't he had waited on the (se players to do that) don't mind me only carefully reading every bit of every post to see if i can find scum and posting thoughts

am i not allowed to try to help newbies as well?(NAI(non alignment indicative) btw, just pointing it out)

emps are you trying to kill your self on day 1 laughs hard at the mistake that's a good one mate very good hahaha

i forgot holden, proceeds to hint at scum!holden

Emps is a newbie, never rolled scum, on V/LA and has almost 100 posts (we aren't in page 10 yet)
I will eat my hat if emps is scum
/bet emps town 80

can i watch i'll give you some bbq sauce

implies scum!me

realy wondering how emps and wagon guy are helping find scum all i see is post after post of non since getting tired of it give others a chance to talk so i can read them mate.

we got out of RVS and got reactions. thats the point of posting early game.

i rather we not lynch some one till the end of day one so we have 10 days to find are two scum and then start lynching the longer day 1 is the bteer off it is for town the shorter it is the better off for scum ... this just in i honestly cant say red is scum or town yet becuse they havent posted enough



on a diffent topic emps is buging me but i could just be getting mad cuse i cant stop hearing about dog the bounty hunters wife from my wife and it just bugs me to no end . rl is lame sometimes i wish i could just jump in to a game ...

back to game i placed a bet that red is scum and its 30 coins so my read on him is very slight and mostly at the thought they may be hideing and trying to pocket people.

but i dont know for sure. and now emps is talking again when i am trying to post really want to use duct tape so i can get a word in.

again, the whole "emps is pissing me off, also he might be scum"
they also SLed/SRed Red off of aroiund 1 or 2 posts

i have another reason to pick on red they joind in my birth day insted of getting drunk. lol .... post blocked by emps again will use rope to tie his hands lol.

again, getting pissy at me for initiating discussion
finding excuse to SL/SR red, also its a horrible one.

holdem feels kinda scummy to me pointing fingers.. post blocked by red gives red wet willy my birth day july 27 1987

Pointing fingers is the thing town is suppposed to do...
red wet willy just feels like an unnecessary insult. probs NAI tho

kentucky red kentucky the home of the blue grass and horse raceing

wtf where does this fit in, you were getting asked questions what kinda response is this.

alll i am saying in regards to emps is i dont see how his post help us find scum and that is'nt very town like feels more like he rather joke around then to look for scum.

also im getting in a mood thanks to this beth stuff.

note his word choice. he uses "isnt very town" instead of scummy, so he can back out of it later and say "oh you guys are misinterpreting it"
also need i explain how my posts help again?

ok gets a rope and starts getting it ready for me lol go ahead mate i anit scared to be lynchd .

went from incredibly defensive to "i dont care lynch me"
also the whhole getting angry at me thing.

i cant post a defense if no one quits posting every 10 seconds so i anit going to bother to try so do as you wish.

actually, yes you can.

Cyrus, could you respond to this?

holdem feels kinda scummy to me pointing fingers.. post blocked by red gives red wet willy my birth day july 27 1987

And I was feeling pretty good about you before this post...what's scummy about how holdem's accusing people?

i feel as if holdem was accuseing wagon for no reason other then to try to get coins and he wasn't really looking for scum just complying alot and then saying i was scum becuse i was hasing emps to try to post more i cant get a word in. every post on emps is a joke lol if you note i didnt change him from town to scum but i did say holdem is more scummy and placed a bet on him and im not worried about being lychd becuse we wont lose from a day 1 one mis lynch

so again go a head and do so i wont bother to defend my self when i have no reason to do so. also i have to run to store and i anit pulling no poor me im saying i anit scared of it.

notice how he says "go ahead i wont bother to defend myself when i have no reason to do so"

you have a huge ass reason to do so. your being pressured. you

have to

give a defense as either alignment, otherwise its throwing the game.

also, notice how weak his defense is. he isnt saying why hes town, because there arent very many good cases for it, but instead does an OMGUS, which basically means they get SRed by someone and proceed to say the person SRing/SLing them is probscum when they have no real reasoning behind it.

Quoting this for later analysis. Trying to skim it right now isn't yield much in the old brain

[HoldenGolden]

ok will now start a slight defence if i have to most of my thoughts is me asking for others thoughts now i will mount a defence even though i dont see how much of it is scumy to state i was getting annoyd at how much you post it is me just posting my feelings any way i am still trying to get a read on folks i when i was teaseing red we was still in rvs mode for one thing and i was mostly trying to get them to talk more most and all of what i was saying about emps is me teaseing him for spaming cuse every time i try to post i have to re read everything and that gets old.. but ok now what else to say...

Ok,

I want to know when you are collected and read to give one, what is your current read on Emps.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the later two posts in my original post and say that's you voicing that you find emps annoying and is not mafia inclined. I'm still suspicious about your post where you are flippy on Emps earlier on.

i dont think him flipping back and forth on his reads is sus, especially early game. however, the holes that allow him to back out this early in the game feel like scum paranoia

and uh

scum

paranoia is scummy. need i explain?

I know, and I agree. But this way regardless of alignment I'm making him commit to a read to stop him from having an excuse.

And to answer your other question, yes, their views on this discussion.

[HoldenGolden]

Wait a minute, he is responding to the points made by Emps. Was really confused on how red got placed into this.

[HoldenGolden]

I will say with salt's vote that's L-2 for cyrus. I personally do not want anymore votes on his wagon just to see others response to the whole situation. It will give us more info to work with post lynch if he is condemn to the gallows.

[HoldenGolden]

i find naci scummy why follow suit build your own case and dont just use emps.

Is this meant for me? If so thanks for making me chuckle.

I seriously don't understand why you being hostile towards me for suspecting you. I've been trying to work with you post vote even though I'm 90% sure you are scum at this point. But oh well. I'm not entertaining this any further. I'll read what you type, but I'm not entering a bickering contest with you.

If it was not for me, then ignore what I said.

[HoldenGolden]

I personally do not want anymore votes on his wagon

Challenge accepted.

VOTE: Cyrus.

That’s L-1.

Now time to ketchup again.

Oh no no no, you are not putting into L-1 until I'm satisfied with your reasonings.
UNVOTE: Cyrus62
Now explain your vote.

[HoldenGolden]

Because I’ve been skimming on mobile and reading it all. But now I actually want to think about it, and that seemed like a good way to announce my presence.

Wagonomics definitely is a better graphic hookup than me.

Yare yare daze,

Well then I guess my vote will be in spirit on him until I hammer or someone else does in case others want to 'announce' themselves that way. There's no guarantee I'm going being alive tomorrow, so im making sure that I get to at least read into others before than.

[HoldenGolden]

laughs i thought i teased you enough to where you knew i wasn't pocketing holdem can you put it back to l1 so i can clam and finally answer emps questions because i didnt wantg to answer queston 5 and 6 cuse i thought i would out my self but after i clame i can out my self

What's the point of this?

If your going to write out a post about claiming a role, then why on earth does it matter if I re-vote?

[HoldenGolden]

I'm going to laugh if he claims vanilla townie

[HoldenGolden]

I mean you dont know what he is gonna claim. Could be claiming mafia!

I really dont like the situation this puts on my desire to wait this out. I'm really sure his play so far is scum, so I dont want real PR to CC.

But if you refuse till you are on L1 cyrus, fine.
VOTE: Cyrus62

[HoldenGolden]

i never said i was pr im not pr ok wow now even if i live i die cuse they think im pr well at least the pr wont be killed on night one lol good move teacher i now have a hit on my head shakes head i am tv lmao tv but now they going think im pr

....

I....

I dont get this anymore.

Spoiler:

https://giphy.com/gifs/1oJLpejP9jEvWQlZj4

[HoldenGolden]

i didnt want to out my self thank you teach now im dead even if i anit lynch

So wait,

You are not pr, but made post soft claiming pr to supposedly give you a chance to save pr role(?) IF you survived being lynched and real PR doesnt CC?

[HoldenGolden]

Alright new drinking game.

A shot everytime Cyrus soft claims a PR
A shot everytime Cyrus refuses to answer a question
Drink the whole bottle if Cyrus actually claims something at this point and sticks with it.

[HoldenGolden]

Alright new drinking game.

A shot everytime Cyrus soft claims a PR
A shot everytime Cyrus refuses to answer a question
Drink the whole bottle if Cyrus actually claims something at this point and sticks with it.

its like this if scum think im pr now then i will take the hit i wont say i anit or i am we dont need them aiming at any one else also if scum truely think i am pr and i draw the hit and the doc knows it i may live to d2 and then they didnt kill no one so like i said so be it.

I'm done with these shen

[HoldenGolden]

EWOP whatever its called,

I'm done with these shenanigans. I wanted to drag it out to get everyone's views, but after this whole pr, not pr claim fresco, I'm just going to leave my vote on cyrus and call it a night.

If he flips he flips fuck it.

[HoldenGolden]

As an matter of fact, here I am! life has especially been busy today. I was hoping to be in a mood to play, but working a 12 hour shift has robbed me of that.

I will reevaluate cyrus and look at jackel/kaff tomorrow since it seems those two are being discussed.

[HoldenGolden]

As an matter of fact, here I am! life has especially been busy today. I was hoping to be in a mood to play, but working a 12 hour shift has robbed me of that.

I will reevaluate cyrus and look at jackel/kaff tomorrow since it seems those two are being discussed.

[HoldenGolden]

Trying to catch up some before I step out for the morning.

Hahaha wagon scumslip

?

Duuuude, please read the case on you

Won't do him any good. He is clearly scum.[/quote]
I don't like this much of confidence.
Also about your case: do you think scum!wagon would do exactly what he said in his scumgame and do the opposite of towngame when he already outed his meta?[/quote]
Like I said earlier, that case was banter for the bet me and him have that I probably will lose. My actual read on him is null. I haven't iso him like I've wanted to yet since he and teacher discussed.

now on to holdem they havent posted since yesterday to

help others scum read

me but they did post the 3dr most

Making a push on you and convincing others to scum read you are two different things.

[HoldenGolden]

now tell me why he doesnt seem like scum as most of his post is useless complaning or quoteing others

I dont understand how me quoting other people to make it easier for them to answer my questions are inherently scummy.

Honestly at this point it sounds like your grasping at straws for your scum read on me

[HoldenGolden]

banter

What does this mean? Also did you make the case on wagon while not scumreading him?

Joke.

It intentionally was made to sound stupid lol. If you need more clarification, read the post where I said oh oh oh

[HoldenGolden]

Teacher made me realize I havent actually posted a PoE yet, so let me get my thoughts down so far.

Town:
Emps

Spoiler:

Town by proxy:

Like I said earlier, there is no way there is a scum team where cyrus and emps are together. Their interactions with one another is not what I would expect if they were. Since I firmly think cyrus is scum, this makes emp town by proxy.

Even beyond that though, I strongly believe he is town regardless of cyrus real alignment. While his logic might not be the best, his motivation behind his posts genuinely seems to be from town. Moreover, I find it hard to believe that he could pull that type of emotion off as scum. He really plays with his heart at his sleeves (which isn't an insult).

Town leans:
NaCl

Spoiler:

strength: strong
I've said it before and I will resay it again, I find NaCl progression and thought process to be town. His style of playing is very straight forward and logically focused. I was a bit wary when he came onto the wagon onto cyrus, but his later posts eased that from me. He definitely off the chopping block day one.

Wagonomics

Spoiler:

strength: mild

He is so scum, he convinced me he is townish. So clearly a good, non-profit, lynch target for day one.

Spoiler:

If I have to be serious, he actually has moved up after an ISO dive. Generally, he seems relaxed in his posts. I do see some back and forth talk when he describes his reads (is there a formal term for this?), but it isnt bad enough to cause concerns. I like his opinions so far and look forward to how his read changes on kaff.

Kaff:

Spoiler:

strength weak

There is not a whole lot to go off of on Kaff, but his read post does not rubbed me the wrong way. His posts afterwards also check out in my book. Town pass for day one unless I see something worrisome.

Null:
Red*

Spoiler:

*if cyrus flips scum, I'm looking first at red as his scum partner. I say this because of how the two keep coming back to interacting with one another. Cyrus seemed oddly focused on red early on. Red seems to as well, but at a lesser extent. I dont find it especially scummy by itself as it can be explained by them having prior experience playing together, but seems to be the next logical move after a scum!Cyrus flip.

With that cleared, independently I red to be null. While I disagree with it, the cyrus reaction = town is an acceptable read by them. Post #483 by them does not sit well with me personally due to how it sounds on a tonal level (I.E. how red describes it sounds more like he's trying to discredit kaffine more). Objectively, it is ok.

Teacher:

Spoiler:

Actually had teacher as a town lean as gut intuition, but eh. Teacher has posted like...well a teacher. At least my first calculus professor chuckled some here and there. Kinda like what kaff stated in his read on him, his iso is a bit barren for someone caught up in everything. I don't think its indicative of being scum on day one since teacher seems to be a type of player to pick up steam later in the game.

Scum lean:
Jackel

Spoiler:

Seems to be having RL issues, so hard to judge how I want to. The sheep vote bothers me for similar reasons like wagonomics and others stated. He isnt my perfer lynch, but I wouldnt be upset with him. Not hammering or anything till near deadline though.

Scum:
Cyrus

Spoiler:

I do understand what red was talking about how his logic being werid/wrong isnt scum necessarily, but his reaction to my initial push on him feels incredibly scummy to me. His emotional displays to me at multiple times feel forced as if he using it to get the wagon off of him. His increase aggressive tone also is alarming to me as it looks like he is frailing around logic for reads for the last few pages. He keeps throwing out accusative-esk reads left and center seemingly to see what sticks. If you need an example, look at his Poe post and response to my earlier post today about him calling me out for being complaining/quoting to much.

In fact, let's us that example and say cyrus is town. He finds me null, but posts soon afterwards how much I complain and quote and wants to know "how much own thought" I have put into the game. That doesnt make sense to me coming off a PoE post since if he is truely worried about that behavior he should consider me a scum lean. That type of behavior fits a scum agenda. Yet he doesnt commit to it. Nor does he phrase it to be a discussion. The post feels like he is throwing shade. An attempt to get the wagon off of him. It the same type that I pointed put earlier about his posts towards emps in my initial post.

Tldr; I firmly believe cyrus is a frailing scum here. His posts align to a mafia agenda. My vote is sticking onto him .

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE:

As I told the mod via PM, due to the RL issues of the past few days and an expected absence most of next week I am forced to request replacement. Apologies to everyone involved for my lack of activity in the game and GL!

I hope RL issues clear up soon.

I shall wait to see what replacement comes in to see about the slot.

[HoldenGolden]

Ow my logic just got called "not the best"

Welcome go the club.

If you stated it I'm sorry for the repeated question, but what is your stance on red?

[HoldenGolden]

Ow my logic just got called "not the best"

Welcome go the club.

If you stated it I'm sorry for the repeated question, but what is your stance on red?

If scum!cyrus, red is strong scumlean/weak SR
If town!cyrus, red is TL

What about independently right now. Ignore cyrus alignment.

[HoldenGolden]

btw teach i kn you said im the lynch for today so i anit going to fight that but in the next 3 hours i am going to be posting cases and poe and i want you and red to look though them closely also Nacl to look closely so i am going give reads and expln why and how i come to this and it will be all the way to this post and before hand so enjoy the show and so look closely at this
the show starts after this post.

...
Why is a supposed vt fine with them being lynched
Especially this far from deadline.
Is this like 4d chess levels of WIFOM?

What the hell is wifom?

Personally, being ok to be lynched isn't super telling my imo as i would consider maybe PR to be the only role that does not remain passive in that scenario. I think it's better to read what he is doing alongside it to see if he actually is comfortable as the wagon as they post, or is scum! Subtlety trying to get the wagon of them (which the latter is happening imo)

[HoldenGolden]

Like, i dont like their ISO rn. They said cyrus has weird/wrong logic, but seems gunueine town.
However, the only real person to have said NaCl is scummy is cyrus. Now, reds most recent post is saying that NaCl/Jackal scumteam.
Withou giving any reasoning.

If cyrus's logic is wrong/weird, why are you basically sheeping him

?

That's true. Though I will say red said that in response to a post of mine iirc about a post I made against him.

[HoldenGolden]

Okay time to read some people.[wall post]

579 would be townie but it doesn't actually lead into a vote

As far as I can tell this slot has not voted

Which is one of the reasons the game is zzz

makes it harder to read you and makes your analysis feel toothless

Wow, how the bloody hell did I actually missed that both in that post and in the VCs.

I still don't feel suspicious of him like everyone else, but I'm retracting my d1 town pass on him for that.

[HoldenGolden]

see how died this game would be with out me

You just posted a iso read where the majority of your analysis was you either saying a post give emps townie/useless points, or you talking about your defense when you go "did the best I could" to

"was hoping rl exsample would work by this point i was panic becuse i was thinking i dont know what the hell you want from me im trying im real trying to answer ok
i felt like nothing i said would be good enough"

Since you are not diving more into emps iso (not blaming you there), what's your read on him after all that? Town? Scum? Goldfish?

[HoldenGolden]

they are waiting on jackels replacement to asl who they should vote for

Then all shall be forgiven depending on what he posts. I just didnt realized he had not voted.

[HoldenGolden]

Game is won if we solve Red/NaCl correctly

Oh yeah and Kaniffee

If Red + NaCL is town, then Jackal+Kanifee

I think Jackal-->Kanifee--> {Red/NaCL} probably wins, but need one out of Red and NaCL to be slightly more obviously town

Question.
Why is cyrus not part of your lynchpool?
I feel like jackal,kanifee,red,cyrus, NaCl contains two scum.

->

Spoiler:

Alright let's walk you guys through this. You may think that we're playing mafia, but I'm playing Wagonomics. I want to have the most WAGONCOINS at the end of the game!

At the START of the game, everyone gets 100 Wagoncoins. You have 100 wagoncoins! And you have 100 wagoncoins! Everyone has 100 wagoncoins!

From there, there are two uses of wagoncoins. You can either choose to INVEST in a wagon. You may put your wagon coins into that wagon and if the slot flips RED, you will get double your investment back! Huzzah!

Or you can choose to ACCEPT a bet.

For example, here is an opening BET

I bet 50 Coins that Wagononomics will NOT be alive on day 3

Now that I have offered the best, anyone can choose to accept the bet! Put up your own 50 wagon coins if you think I WILL be alive on day 3!

Note that while investments can be SOLD at any time, BETS cannot be cancelled once made!

I will also start an initial INVESTMENT
VOTE: Jackal711

Since this is a RANDOM investment, I am only INVESTING

5 wagoncoins

.

this sounds like fun ok i bet 60 that red is scum and 40 that emps is town ps i like you

Here's my iso of you (cyrus).

You're town because that's a town response to my game.

[HoldenGolden]

see how died this game would be with out me

You just posted a iso read where the majority of your analysis was you either saying a post give emps townie/useless points, or you talking about your defense when you go "did the best I could" to

"was hoping rl exsample would work by this point i was panic becuse i was thinking i dont know what the hell you want from me im trying im real trying to answer ok
i felt like nothing i said would be good enough"

Since you are not diving more into emps iso (not blaming you there), what's your read on him after all that? Town? Scum? Goldfish?

kill me of you like but after re reading emps and now kanifee i dont want either to be lynchd or killed ok they are both full very low null to me now and yyou shoukld read them the same mate it will help after day 3 if you know what i mean

What?

So they are null/low town to you that you do not want lynched or night killed (which we have no control over unless there is a vig)? What makes you feel that way with kaff?

[HoldenGolden]

I know how to use iso and am in a similarish read with you on him. In asking you what about his play so far makes you come to that conclusion when there are others in the thread who are considering for a lynch.

I can read his posts and iso and come to my own conclusion. Yours I cannot on my own. Kaff is one of the alternative wagons to you right now outside of jackel/replacement. That's why I want to know the reasons from you on your kaff read.

[HoldenGolden]

kill me of you like but after re reading emps and now kanifee i dont want either to be lynchd or killed ok they are both full very low null to me now and yyou shoukld read

them the same mate it will help after day 3 if you know what i mean

Also If you are subtly calling me out on being scum, which is what I'm imagining the "you know what I mean" part is talking about since that's the only thing I can think of, then just call me out.

[HoldenGolden]

You

probably should have realized that cyrus wagon reached it's peak and it will go nowhere.

So vote with me now

I still highly suspect cyrus and some of his recent posts like his reads rub me the wrong way. I will reread him tonight to see if anything changes, but I doubt it. I still think his flip not only has a good chance to be scum, but also will be a good source of info heading into tomorrow.

I dont particularly care much for a teacher lynch as I think it be easier to sort him out d2. His play has been underwhelming for the majority of the thread admittedly. Kaff last couple of posts and entrance onto the wagon also dont feel right. I'll explain more tonight when I have more time.

[HoldenGolden]

canada day im off

It's not July 4th yet? Still got some time

[HoldenGolden]

Morning,

Rereading since last night has made me feel better about kaff and his entrance onto the teacher wagon. His trash talking about ToS, however, was painful to read.

[HoldenGolden]

@emps @cyrus @holden @wagon
What do you think about lynching

Ico

That's an odd way to spell cyrus twice, but I would like to lynch cyrus too!

Depends on what he says in response to teacher's question about his cyrus read. I'll wait to go into detail till he responds about that.

Outside of that, his read on NaCl is ok but does not have the follow up I would expect from town. He isnt pushing for that lynch yet despite casing him. That stands out to me because NaCl isnt a wagon yet. If he feels he is the most scummest player in the game right now, I would expect him to pressure more and go ahead and vote. Rather, he seems ok just resting on an off wagon scum read which bothers me.

Teacher you are here. What do you think about the above?

[HoldenGolden]

Wait who are you talking about teacher? Red?

From "depends..." on my post was on ico who has not voted yet.

[HoldenGolden]

I really do not know what to make of you cyrus anymore.

I heavily think content wise you are scum. The way you reacted to being pushed and several of yours posts sense then have backed it up in my mind. On the other hand, post #901 does not make sense as a post from scum. It just seems such an out of the blue post to be worried about night kills and combined with his posts about trying to get me to see blue roles(?). I dont know anymore if I am evaluating you correctly. I'm starting to see some of the paranoid town vibes others are seeing. It's a paradox, and not one of your own fault. I find the reads post +bets to be very worrying along with the teacher vote.

I'm going to take a break from those suspicious though for a moment. Prehaps I am tunneled and you are town. Can you explain your stances on both ico and teacher in terms of why you find them scummy? Do you agree/sheeping red? Or is there other reasons as well?

[HoldenGolden]

@Teacher, wagon, and emp. What is your take on cyrus focus on stuff like nks and prs and all that.

[HoldenGolden]

Could be scum!baiting. Could be newb overly focused on the night side of the game (tbh I think this is more likely).

Either way is a weird focus when 90% of the game is helping town find town to admit that he was misrepping a read for the nightkill Woodmont and not even because it was a pr ping. This is what I mean by not game advancing even if town. .

Do you think newbscum! Would be more likely to talk openly about nks and stuff like that from your experience?

[HoldenGolden]

Cyrus, my thing with your reads/reads list is that for the majority of them you posted null (7 out of 9). I just wanted more info behind them. What makes it a dice roll for you between them? Are they both that much equally scum I'm your opinion?

[HoldenGolden]

@Teacher, wagon, and emp. What is your take on cyrus focus on stuff like nks and prs and all that.

if we can control who scum target

we can and may save the better players for day 2 in which case are chances of winning go way up then if they focus on players like teacher ,red , emps we will lose good players who is pr you say i hope i made it as confusing to the scum on who is as i have done with you guys. i dont know who will be night killed but i do know who they aim at the players who give the better reads .
.

But we cant.

At the end of the day, scum is going to shoot who ever they need to. Rather that be a big town figure, or a suspected pr role, they will do what ever. That's why I never understood reading about nk analysis in the guides.

Also why are you worried they are going to hit teacher when you have voted and are thinking about voting for teacher?

[HoldenGolden]

Maybe it's different than how it is in ToS, but still.

[HoldenGolden]

Cyrus, my thing with your reads/reads list is that for the majority of them you posted null (7 out of 9). I just wanted more info behind them. What makes it a dice roll for you between them? Are they both that much equally scum I'm your opinion?

you want the truth fine i null read who i think is town and as a new player i go with advice of who i know can read better then me a dice roll because i honestly don't know if either are scum not enough post and we been playing for 7 days almost . i"m used to games only going a hour tops. and so with it being 7 days almost why hasn't teach given more sound advice then he has . why jackal i honestly don't know i really don't know who to vote for but i rather teacher not be lynch .

Yes, I would love the truth.

I'm still not following you here. You state that you did not want teacher to be lynched and that your null was a town read of some kind. Do you not think then red could be scum pushing a lynch on teacher when he pushes and ask you to follow? I get you are not confident prehaps in reading people, but it's hard for me to see how you are so ok sheeping as town.

You also had jackel/ico as scum at one point. Do you remember why at that point since your read has changed to null basically on him?

[HoldenGolden]

I'll give intent for ico. Though, I'm giving him at least until the day deadline reaches one day left. Gives him two days basically to post and respond to the wagon.

If everyone wants to give intent with a sooner deadline they are free to do so.

[HoldenGolden]

baseicly it comes down to 1 of 4 things 1. either im wrong about red and hes scum
2. reds right and nacl is scum with ico
3. teach and ico are both scum and teachers so good he can fool people
or 4 ico is right and nacl and holden are scum

i will think on this and re read all the pages and do a iso on every one and see who is who but its awfuly funny how nacl comes up twice.

Two is way unlikely. Scum! Ico coming in reading his scum! Partner NaCl scum when he can just go with town flow and townread him. Does not make sense

[HoldenGolden]

Just to clarify, I think eventually we will have to lynch cyrus. I personally rather do it today just so we do not have such a big question mark later on. Seeing though that it's unlikely to have him lynched today, I'm willing to vote on ico, red, and maybe kaff (though the last one will have to take a good case to sell me on).

In any case, I think its playing the waiting game on icos responses at this point.

[HoldenGolden]

and now after haveing to eat crow for being wrong im with holden on my lynch as i hate swallowing my pride

Stop complaing. Crow is a delicacy in some places.

[HoldenGolden]

Wow its day one and I realize cyrus has experienced all stages of grief.

Denial with the soft pr claim.
Anger with his omgus on me and NaCl earlier
Bargaining with wagoncoins
Depression by sheeping red and general tone
Now acceptance in his lynch.

That should be a achievement.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh wait, ice isnt even at l-1 anymore. I'm a dumbass

[HoldenGolden]

No, I like how Ico didnt go to the easy counterwagon (on either you or cyrus) when he remains the dominant wagon with some deadline pressure. Thats someone trying to sort, not someone trying to survive.

I felt initially the same with the NaCl push, then I reread the case and just felt eh.

I'm actually concerned with his progression on the scumlean he has on me, or lack there of. I feel it would be more of a natural progression to look into me afterward his NaCl read fell apart than start diving into wagon of all people (someone he initially had as town.) I mean if his read on my is based on my cyrus interactions then there is a lot to talk about. Yet, he has not mention me since or pressure me any.

That's why I'm currently seeing his wagon read as him surviving through pushing someone than him solving the game.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh God we are back at discussing that claim clownfesta again? I will say it did feel like he was about to claim a pr role at the time. Take it how you will. That's 20 minutes of my life I want back.

[HoldenGolden]

Okay just counted and we are. @Iconeum a defense if you will?

Just to let you know how this works.

If you want to lynch him you give a bolder intent and a deadline (usually 12 plus hours unless there’s a deadline problem with that).

The bolder intent tells Ico to claim his role as PR or VT (nobody claims scum) and gives everybody currently voting Ico a chance to get off if they want before the hammer (lynch vote) falls.

Tbh, it’s early for me on an empty slot so I’m going to get off even before intent.

VOTE: Red

feels like a omgush here red voted teacher and now teachers voting red and hoping off the wagon before we can get a intent very odd indeed like teacher knows jackel is scum and doesn't want to lynch him.

You already said that cyrus and he already responded about it...I do like the dot dot dots though...it really makes it more dramatic when you type like this....though more difficult to read...

[HoldenGolden]

It is quite tragic in a way. Cyrus was basically hamlet in our little town. The mad prince whose posts never quite made sense, but we all went with it. His descent into madness, or apparent descent, brought about by his grief seemed to always push him further and further. At last, it all caught up with him, and the Canadian Prince is no more.

Red can be the Yodric in this metaphor I guess.

[HoldenGolden]

Anyways, time to move on.

I have to reread the 156 posts before the game got paused. However, I do like wagons unvote. His position on the ico wagon (first) would probably have gone unnoticed in an analysis of the votes after the flip. Meaning scum!wagon wouldnt have to change his votes, especially with red and cyrus being on the wagon who would of be suspected more. This makes me think he is now officially town town.

Thoughts?

[HoldenGolden]

Ok then. I was gonna address the 8 pages I missed, but I don't even know where to begin. I guess we'll just wait for replacements. Also @mod do their votes still count or would they be nullified until we get replacements?

What do you make of icos posts in that time and wagons reasons to invite him since you are on the wagon for ico?

[HoldenGolden]

I agree with you kaniffe.

I think his tone is the last few pages puts to ease my problem with his read progression (which I've realized is more wifom than actual Aligment telling). I cant remember if he responded to the post wagon made which included parts of my post in it. Need to sit down and re ISO everybody again. Maybe it's just the length of the day phase, but I feel lost if that makes sense.

[HoldenGolden]

Ahhh sorry I've been inactive

Life has been an ouchie rn
Should free up soon

Want me to kiss it to make it feel better?

(I've also been busy and posting to let the mods know I'm still here. Be more active tomorrow)

[HoldenGolden]

What is 552 about? The pov switch is weird. Really weird, how did that not give anyone the heebie jeebies?

That's one of my posts he failed to correctly quote in response to cyrus question iirc.

That's why the rest of that post is my posts quoted lol.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude

With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude

With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.

It's scum indicative more often than town indicative.

Mind explaining why that's the case?

[HoldenGolden]

That was almost as delicious to see as the porkchop I'm eating rn.

Ok so uhm

I believe this is the right situation for a tracker/neopolitan to claim?

SEs can i get some confirmation

Why?

I think they can play it slow and breadcrumb/push if they got a check worth it. No need to claim especially after that.

Also why do you only mention tracker and neapolitan and not include cop?

[HoldenGolden]

If cop claimed, then we're in A3. And the mafia would roleblock him every night.

But we also could be in B1 where mafia has rolecop and town has tracker and cop

[HoldenGolden]

Never mind I'm being a dummy

[HoldenGolden]

Yeah, are you saying the mafia passed on their kill, then?

Well I mean, one of us could be a zombie

[HoldenGolden]

Anyways, moving from beyond the above (and teacher what play is it and is it any good?),

I want to discuss kaniffee. I feel he is somebody who is at most lean territory for the majority of the players in the game. Therefore I want to sort him out now early in the day before anything starts up.

I'll preface by explaining my own read on him. Earlier, I thought his intial read post was townish for a few reasons. For reference, I have included it in the two spoilers below:

Spoiler:

Okay time to read some people. I ended up just ISOing everyone except when I needed context. Oh and for Emps I gave up on rereading everything.
Wagonomics: Reads town to me. Overall seemed very genuine in their posts, and nothing jumped out as scummy to me.
Red Flavor: Null. Posts are from a playing style that I just don't have much context for, so it's hard for me to interpret specific things as being scummy or townie.
Emps: Town/null. Emps has posted alot, and people have made good arguments for why that may be scummy, townie, or NAI. At this point I don't have the energy to decipher 200 posts, but the more recent ones seem townie, so that's what I'm going with for now.
Holden: Town lean. Can be somewhat aggressive in interactions, but it seems to be coming from someone who's town, and is just inexperienced at going about finding scum. Also the joking tone seems pretty natural and feels town to me. Only a lean because some of his logic isn't adding up for me right now. Could be inexperience, could be slightly scummy, but otherwise nothing weird with his play so far.
cyrus: Town. See post 486 498 and 513 I guess, since I don't feel like retyping (Idk if the links just show up or I have to do something, but I'll try to do that if this doesn't work).
NaCl: Town. His posts seem town motivated, and the way he asks questions I get the vibe that he geuinely wants to know and cares about using good reasoning to find scum.
Teacher: Weak scum lean. Looking through it seems a lot of his posts are general strategy advice that are intended to appear as furthering the game without actually. I feel like strategy would be very NAI in a newbie game when there's less meta knowledge, so the focus on it seems like a distraction. There does seem to be some talk of players he suspects with some reasoning, so that's why it's only a weak lean.
Jackal: Scum lean. Vote for Cyrus seemed sheepy, especially how he just vaguely says it's because of the recent pages instead of actually writing out his own reasons.

Responses to peoples questions under spoiler

Spoiler:

Oops, my question for Kaniffee came out wrong. "Should be: Why do you think Cyrus is town? And more importantly, why don't you have a read on anyone else?"

At that point I decided to focus my time to read Cyrus because he's the one at L-1, so I figured my contributions were more important there first. Here's my reads on everyone else. I suppose if going by proper terminology some are reads and others are just leans, but it's what I got.
I will probably die for this read because if I am right and I survive, it will be bad for scum.

No I'm just town who doesn't know what to contribute to a 22 page game, and doesn't have that much time to. I like to think through what I post, and that takes time. At that point I didn't make game posts because I hadn't thought through it enough to feel confident in my opinions.
I'm confused. I'm a newbie. Jackal's SE. Were you saying that Jackal has me as a newbie partner or that I have Jackal as a fellow newbie partner?
The last line doesn't really make sense. Especially with you saying it outright, there's a certain WIFOM created. Now Scum might NK you to make me look bad because you said this. I don't think you being NKed or not will be able to have any indication of alignment for anyone.

Spoiler:

Goodnight y'all it's after midnight, so I won't be responding til I wake up at least. I'll probably vote tomorrow too. I wanna sleep on all of this before deciding.
pedit: I see y'all discussing Holden. I don't think what you've pointed out indicates anything scummy, so this doesn't change my read on him.
pedit2: I feel like there's some inbetween post I'm missing where Cyrus accuses emps of being a cop or something? I don't have time to care, so I'll parse through that tomorrow

This post stood out to be because I feel scum would be less likely to take strong stands on certain players (Wagon and to a lesser extent NaCl) at this point of the game. His only two reads that he can easily get out of is his scum lean on teacher and his town lean on me. On top of the null read, that means scum!kaff makes his life harder to push onto 5 out of the 9 players for a mislynch if need be later on. Obviously jackel/ico wasnt scum and therefore scum was not worried about a member being lynched unless cyrus slot is scum, but still a bit dangerous stance for scum to take. Not impossible though.

The reads themselves are not special. I think this among some minor points like his voting makes the best case for a town kaff right now.

Now with that said, there are several posts that have rubbed me entirely the other direction.

First most, this response to a question by NaCl raised some alarms to me. The bold is the statement I am focusing on.

Spoiler:

Almost being a key word. For one thing
I never voted Cyrus, and specifically said I was hesitant to vote him because I think he's town. The time I said I was considering actually voting Cyrus was back when before I had properly read people. Since then I've been mainly focused on my scum candidates Jackal(now Iconeum) and Teacher.

I find it funny you complained about me slowing the game by not voting, and then I actually do vote and now it's too fast for you?

To me, the tone of that does not feel like a town member worried about a person trying to shade them. Rather, it feels as if kaff is trying to throw shade onto NaCl, who according to his reads at this point, was a town read. Dont get me wrong, I dont think you should just ignore suspicious statements from a town read, but kaff tone here feels highly scummy to me given the point of view he gave on NaCl.

Secondly, I find his recent focusing on cyrus pr claim offputting. Rereading it, it feels in a way artificial in it's way of questioning teacher. Before this, kaff made a post talking about the claim in post 486. That post is a reasonable conclusion to come to for a town member.

kanniffee side note i am vt ok i am willing to flip to prove this but my bet is now 50 on teacher and 50 on jackel

This is Cyrus's most recent claim

Right, and then he pulls me out of there in his "four possibility" post, but leans towards Ico/Jackal being right and (NaCl-Holden) scum - option 4. Like how is this clearly town......

Also, this is not relevant to red's case on me, where he says I voted to get Cyrus to claim

and achieved my objective

. I dont see any hard claim from him any where near the time I voted, and shading me for Cyrus deciding to fake-soft-fake-vt at a time where there was no intent is motivated misreading of the game.

laughs i thought i teased you enough to where you knew i wasn't pocketing holdem can you put it back to l1 so i can clam and finally answer emps questions because i didnt wantg to answer queston 5 and 6 cuse i thought i would out my self but after i clame i can out my self

looking back at the original post though it really does look to me like he was just trying to follow "the rules" and everything that came after was a result of people (namely you since you did it first) assuming this was a soft pr. I don't see how this was a soft pr. You just said it was and others followed suit. The more I read through that section the more it looks opportunistic on your part.

Now compare that to this post after the red point. Similar conclusion, cyrus accidently claim pr when not trying to due to him trying to follow L1 rules, but far different interpretation on teachers motive behind it. Suddenly teacher is scum trying to force a claim for what? Info on set up? It is such shallow logic and seems very opportunistic on kaffs end to shade teacher off the back of reds suspicions. As if kaff was getting the tools needed to push a mislynch on teacher today if the opportunity arose for it (which can explain the odd double down on this logic as well when I back up how the thread felt it was a pr claim at the time)


To put it simply, I'm leaning scum on kaff right now. I want to hear others views on him and these posts as well. I feel figuring out his slot will be crucial for winning the game.

[HoldenGolden]

Also, sorry for the formatting, but you try to fucking quote and spoiler all that shit on mobile when you have fat thumbs.

Also, since I'm still trying to get a feel for cyrus replacement, VOTE: Kaniffee

[HoldenGolden]

Oh yea, and this

UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude

With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.

Since no one else is talking and I have time on my hands, I have to ask you what you mean by 'Springfleg dude'.
I know that's referring to me, but was it just a misreading of my name? Or does Springfleg mean something?

I generally could not be bothered at the time to memorize your name when 1/3rd of the game replaced.

....still cant tbh. In the bright side, springfleg isnt the worse way I could remembered your name

[HoldenGolden]

Spanish
Slangang
Sexflog
Spanked
Superman
Spermlord
Specialoli

Be glad I didnt use any of these in place of springfleg

[HoldenGolden]

Yes, let's please get this wagon going.
You've echoed some of my thoughts, but given an entirely (and probably even more valid) perspective on it.
Where I had mostly some general unease at the tone of some of their posts which really was not dispelled by their defence of themselves, you've laid out a decent case.
VOTE: Kaniffee

Pedit:
Fair enough. I think I'll use that as a username elsewhere, actually. I quite like it.

Idk, I personally am attractived to spermlord or sexflog

Also, are there any posts that I did not talk about that shows tonal issues on your end? Would like to see them and hear your reasoning.

[HoldenGolden]

838 pings me a bit; 'since that's like the jokey 10 minute version of this game, telling jokes just might be his default playstyle' - something being jokey definitely doesn't mean that people tell jokes on it, and whether or not it is a genuine misunderstanding, I feel like it looks like scum just trying to invent activity from nothing, especially since they didn't really end it with any kind of point except 'it makes me warier'; it was a whole lot of nothing as a post.

729 is also a whole lot of nothing disguised as activity, especially since it ultimately is just 'wait for the replacements'.

668 has focus on the NK that I'm not sure town have so soon into the game. Ultimately probably NAI but it's still a bit off, I guess.

858 just seems sheepy on face value, especially as they never seem to express any

reasons

. Maybe I'm missing context but...

[post[1053[/post] is still pinging me. 'Well seeing as teacher is unlikely to be lynched' just looks opportunistic; if you think someone is scum make a case and see if that gets them lynched. Don't jump off on the nearest mislynch you can find. Switch your vote, sure, but still pay attention to your other, at least somewhat progressed, scumread.

This post is borne a little bit out of tunnelling, I know, but here are the things that I notice trawling back through their ISO (that you haven't mentioned - or maybe you have mentioned some, sorry about that then).

838 is a fairly decent point
729 I think is pretty NAI: most people were waiting on the replacement because jackel was scummy off the little bit he posted.

Spoiler: useless sidenote

You know I think that so far has been the most eye opening thing for me about game logic. Retrospectively, the almost universal dive onto ico followed by relatively weak counter wagons/defense for town!ico screams a townie mislynch. I know it's not always gonna be the case, but cool little learning experience.

668 is honestly werid shit that cyrus did as well with nks. No clue honestly how to read into that, so I'll save that for someone else.

858 and 1053,
What do you make of his initial reasons for scum leaning teacher and his reads post in general then?

[HoldenGolden]

Ooo, speak of the devil.

DeKaff, may I ask you for your opinions on slots outside of teacher? Doesn't have to be extensive.

[HoldenGolden]

Emps, wagon, what are your thoughts a out what I brought up about kaniffee?

Wagon especially since it sounded like you felt they were sounding townie to you towards the end of day one.

[HoldenGolden]

everyone gets an extra 100 coins as day starts

Let's see who is in the lead

I also appreciate you ignoring my last bet.

200 coin bet that wagon will be dead by day 2's lynch.

[HoldenGolden]

Emps, wagon, what are your thoughts a out what I brought up about kaniffee?

Wagon especially since it sounded like you felt they were sounding townie to you towards the end of day one.

i think their nulltown rn honestly

the scummy bit doesnt hit me as very scummy

just seems newbie to me tho

they just seem... like theyre there, but they arent at the saame time yknow what i mean?

I mean I can say the last bit about you right now so not really.

What makes him on the townish side of null for you then?

[HoldenGolden]

Emps, wagon, what are your thoughts a out what I brought up about kaniffee?

Wagon especially since it sounded like you felt they were sounding townie to you towards the end of day one.

i think their nulltown rn honestly

the scummy bit doesnt hit me as very scummy

just seems newbie to me tho

they just seem... like theyre there, but they arent at the saame time yknow what i mean?

I mean I can say the last bit about you right now so not really.

What makes her on the townish side of null for you then?

Pronoun fixing

[HoldenGolden]

@Wagon, why are you not voting for Kaniffee?

Deciding which slot I need to reconsider since I'm short a scumread right now so that's a bit more important

When you do get a chance, I would like to see your town reasoning on kan to get that perspective.

[HoldenGolden]

Emps, wagon, what are your thoughts a out what I brought up about kaniffee?

Wagon especially since it sounded like you felt they were sounding townie to you towards the end of day one.

i think their nulltown rn honestly

the scummy bit doesnt hit me as very scummy

just seems newbie to me tho

they just seem... like theyre there, but they arent at the saame time yknow what i mean?

I mean I can say the last bit about you right now so not really.

What makes him on the townish side of null for you then?

they feel like theyre trying to solve

no TL because they only seem to respond to questions asked to them, not posts directed at most everyone in general

however i think the answers to the questions are townie

Can you post an example of her answers where you find it townie and explain?

[HoldenGolden]

This thread feels dead and that is bothering me. That makes me a bit wary on my read on kaniffee. Scum does not seem motivated to move the game state away from her lynch, nor dismantling it. Nobody has really come forward and posted anything defending her to a significant degree. Yes, there are those who are saying they townlean or town read them. But those same people dont seem to be doing anything about it.

I'm going to have to relook at my town reads. I feel I have overlooked some of the people there.

UNVOTE: kaniffee

@sprangfled, what is your take on the threads slowdown once kan was brought up?

VC 2.1

[2]Kaniffee:

HoldenGolden, Spangled

[1]teacher:

Kaniffee

[5] Not Voting:

emps, NaCl, teacher, RCEnigma, Wagonomics

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-16 19:17:46)

Mod Notes:

Mod will be V/LA this weekend.

To the people not voting, I want to hear your opinions on today's lynch and who you want. I rather have more days to discuss then us scrambling to lynch somebody.

[HoldenGolden]

So since questions dont work.

You guys got 30 minutes from this post before I start writing erotic fanfics about yall.

[HoldenGolden]

But look who’s being inactive/basically no game relevant posts - wagon, RC: the SEs who should be setting an example.

It's mainly If they want different lynches or target, they need to get off their ass and post.

Emps/Wagon/RC I have no clue who they want to lynch today, but I know two do not want to lynch kaniffee. NaCl has been here, but similarly haven't pushed much. Hell, even you suspect kan but haven't joined the wagon (though you have been around to voice your view which I appreciate).

Honestly, it's really freaking annoying. I felt I had a good town list to PoE from day 1, but now it's like I'm begining a new game. I wanted to see the stances people take in the kaniffee discussion to better gauge them. Now it's even slower than when ico slowly got pushed for lynch.

[HoldenGolden]

I wish I had unlimited vig shots during the day phase

[HoldenGolden]

Crisp cold air blew across RC's mysterious face as he stood behind the brothel. The bandages flapping around his concealed face. Dusk had fallen quite rapidly, coating the alleyway in a suspicious veil of darkness.

"He should of been here by now," He remarked, looking down at his cracked watch. It had been a long time since he last saw his lover after the...incident. Society can be cruel after all.

The metal backdoor to the brothel finally opened to reveal a tall, handsome bearded man. His white teeth glimming in the moonlight. A suede jacket and dress pants rounded out his attire.

"Oh sweetie, where the hell have you been?" Wagonmics said, playfully throwing a handful of wagoncoins near the upper junction of RCs legs. The covered man smiled before approaching his lover, pulling back the tight bandages to [Retracted]

.

[HoldenGolden]

I let yall off easy this time. The thread better be talkative within two hours, or I will post more, much more scandalous, fanfics

[HoldenGolden]

VC 2.2

[1]Kaniffee:

Spangled

[1]teacher:

Kaniffee

[6] Not Voting:

emps, NaCl, teacher, RCEnigma, Wagonomics, HoldenGolden

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-16 19:17:46)

Mod Notes:

Mod will be V/LA this weekend, this will likely mean no prods or VCs until monday.

@Mod, A) are we allowed to do unofficial VCs this weekend due to V/LA? B) Can we still talk after a lynch has been reached if it occurs during that time?

[HoldenGolden]

Nice to know I can just post a cringle fanfic whenever I want people to post holly molly that worked way too well.

[HoldenGolden]

@NaCl
That's fair I suppose. I think spangled cleared up some of my suspicions on the cyrus slot, so I'm not super worried about him being on the wagon with me. I can understand a RC lynch as well.

A little bit off topic, but I have a read I'm a bit wary of if i may ask you for your opinion. What do you make of emps slowdown of posts? It worries me a bit, but I still find his day one play townie

[HoldenGolden]

I don't care, knock yourself out.

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm, yeah, I think I was just being paranoid about it with him.

[HoldenGolden]

Ahh, this is what I like to see. Quality discussion!

And all it took was creeping out the thread.

You know people's reads change all the time but it's weird to me that basically all of your reads have hard 180'd over the course of two largely uneventful days emps

I actually would to know as well Emps. Actually quite like this point here.

[HoldenGolden]

Let me drive and eat dinner and I start posting.

[HoldenGolden]

I think scum is within emps/teacher/NaCl/RC

Wagonomics d1 to me was townie and his recent posts feel strongly from town perspective.
Springfleg has become a strong town lean for me. I do not feel scum agenda coming from him.
Kaniffee surprisely has also alleviated a lot of fear from earlier as well.

I'm questioning Emps entrance on the cyrus wagon yesterday after rereading it. Cyrus and him interacted pretty much uncontested for several pages and yet it takes until my push on cyrus for emps to start suspecting him. His town read for cyrus too based off the pocket suspicion quickly disappeared as well. The only thing holding me back from calling it opportunistic is the initial pushback he gave me on cyrus. He did not imminently 180, and kept that until a cyrus post rubbed him wrong. So I can see a town perspective where that checks out.

I dont like his wagon case at all. He knows my case on wagon was BS because he already asked me. Honestly his entire day 2 play has been terrible. I'm starting to wonder too if his post made after the day post was an attempt to find out pr roles due to the strange night.

With that being said, NaCl latest ISO on teacher does not sit with me. I get the general impression that his read on teacher by the end of it is scum, yet he does not vote and concludes that there is scum between teacher and RC. Now, he might just be waiting to ISO RC to check, but if he is scum reading teacher than RC read shouldn't matter. It feels in a way like he is distancing himself from teacher.

I'm going to ISO RC and Teacher. Teacher has not feel overtly scummy to me, but I need to dive on him.

[HoldenGolden]

I probably also should be V/LA given being on a trip, but I'll give scum a chance to shade me.

[HoldenGolden]

Put me with 120 Holden town 80 Spangled town. I was too focused elsewhere and lost track of this game. Cyrusbis Mech town

There’s a scum I. Wagon and RC. I’m leaning RC but want to explore his wagon plays scum honest card, because I’m finding wagon quite honest and finding myself agreeing with him.

I kinda recall someone questioning my salt read. I’m seeing a whole lor of effort there. There is desire for understanding - questioning but sharing reactions. It is coming from a consistent mindset.

I feel pretty good about emps town too. Actually chop 20 from Spangled and 20 from Holden so it becomes 100, 60, 40 and I’m good.

Then who is second idea for scum? Kaniffee, the person you said was becoming more townie in your eyes?

[HoldenGolden]

I actually forget about RC's post on Emps cyrus case. I find myself agreeing with that a lot.

what the fuck is up with spoilers and like dying midway through wtf

anyways basically

he has made pretty no attempts to actually scumhunt/sort people

made meme cases on people who were mostly townread at the time

says kanifee and salty boi are scum

but doesnt bother to ISO/make some sort of scumcase on them

Then what do you make of his vote analysis then? You haven't even seem to pay that much attention other than answering peoples questions about you

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: emps

I feel actually good about this vote now. RC has looked good enough today to get out of the lynch pool rn.

Teacher is a hard read for me for some reason. I'm willing to comprise, but rather have emps.

Emps just does not feel like he is actively solving the game anymore. Hes been here, yet remains pretty reactive when it comes to giving opinions on the game state. His case on wagon also didnt really feel genuine. I'll explain later.

Compare that to NaCl who actually is producing content than coasting

[HoldenGolden]

Teacher is a good suspect, but I will have to go through and go post by post to associate.

Let me ask you a question. If Wagon was considered an unpopular vote or someone who probably wouldnt be able to be pushed up, why would scum!me put him as my strongest scumread?

But you aren't actively convincing anybody of it.

You know your wagon isnt popular, but you aren't pushing it. Instead, your sitting on it while the game processes. That's the issue.

[HoldenGolden]

Actually I should preemptively do an associate analysis before the flip incase I die from scum

[HoldenGolden]

going to start up the readslist here

[link removed]

Not trying to be a rules laywr, but isnt using Google docs against the rules since the potential to edit the post exist and cant be looked at the same?

[HoldenGolden]

unofficial VC

[2]emps:

Wagonomics, HoldenGolden

[3]teacher:

Kaniffee, NaCl, RCEnigma

[1]Kaniffee:

Spangled

[1]Wagonomics:

emps

[1]RCEnigma:

teacher

[0] Not Voting:

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-16 19:17:46)

Repost for convenience of almost pagetop

Lazy updated VC since I'm out of the hotel room

[HoldenGolden]

It's actually interesting how Teachers and Emps reads of one another are progressing. I dont know if I have enough experience to describe it, but it seems the more closer one gets to being lynched, the more they have scum read each other. I'll quote it out later, but:

Emps during d2 has gradually shifted his read on teacher to scum, though it seems he doesnt want to admit it. His own reread of teacher stated that teachers play has decline into scum lean territory. Yet, he pushed against wagon who was focused on teacher. In response to NaCl (I think it was his) case on teacher, he imo shades NaCl while protecting teacher some. Need to make a note of looking into Teachers NaCl read because they could prove if this is him trying to help set up teacher for a mislynch if he flips.

Teachers vote on emps feels meh. This is where I dont know how to interpret it based on experience. It's his main counterwagon, but also been someone he has town read hard.

The more I look at it, I can really see Teacher/Emps team.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Teacher that's L1

I rather we vote emps first as him flipping scum will sell me more on teacher, but I feel good on either.

[HoldenGolden]

I guess I can do a lazy list right now

Town
Wagon
Springfleg
Kaniffee
RC
Nacl
Teacher
Emps
Holdengolden
Scum

[HoldenGolden]

So basically you think teacher and i are bussing for future towncred, but its like really shitty towncred thatll get us scumread more? Ok then...

It more distancing that I see than bussing but yes.

If you are town, convince me of your wagon read. Make me see your way of thinking.

[HoldenGolden]

Well I read some of those links RC posted and found a theory that stated if you so townie you have to be scum. Therefore, I objectively have to say I'm scum since logical fallacies are the cornerstones of good logical arguments.

Read harder emps

[HoldenGolden]

The logic is

If ur townie af you get NK

You townie af and dont eat NK you sus boi

Issue is... that logic doesnt apply because there was no NK?

....this guy.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie

That's the joke

[HoldenGolden]

I'm honestly amused and perplexed by your readlist table strategy thing you are doing.

[HoldenGolden]

uh i have a playstyle similar to the SEs i play with
during my first game i played with teacher which is mainly where i developed my mech centered playstyle

the readlist table also comes from an SE

I'm just waiting to see the results of it is all.

[HoldenGolden]

So you are making a leaderboard?

Like...what the purpose of analyzing that, or can you not tell me yet?

[HoldenGolden]

wont tell you till everyone has given their readlists.
can you guys help me out and get some readlists from Wagon, RCE, and teacher? Wagon and RCE have acnowledged my doc/readlist table, but they have yet to give one.

I'll travel to DC and beat one out of teacher

[HoldenGolden]

@mod is this : [link removed] allowed, or no?

Can you rephrase your question without a hyperlink?

Is using Google docs that have be shared (view only) allowed? He is using it to fill in a table due to not knowing how to do it through bbcode.

[HoldenGolden]

Sell me on teacher?

Teacher bad, RC good.

That comma is sad; he could it been a semicolon and properly represent the English grammar system.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE:

We shall see if there is a CC

[HoldenGolden]

Great, a whole day to figure out a claim -_-

Now I have to use brains cells again. Grrr

[HoldenGolden]

teachers claim is probably real. only time where you can get away with JK fakeclaim is setup C3

If you play ToS, you be surprised how effective fakeclaims can be even if they likely to be CC. Its time sentive. We will see what happens.

I will however start reevaluating my group and maybe expend outwards.

[HoldenGolden]

Holden town, teacher town, spangled town

Not feeling emps scum

Something in salt, kani, and rce?

VOTE: kani I guess out of that

How does this change your VCA and why kani out of those three?

[HoldenGolden]

You think with the confirm towns this would be easier. I'm not really crazy about RC getting lynched.

Its werid because I can easily say any of them are scum in that pool as much as I can say they are townie (though kan is higher in my book)

I'll give intent to hammer at lunch time for me tomorrow. Ie, 12 to 14 hours. I'll give my read list before then.

[HoldenGolden]

I'd like to add I 100% would have CC'd Teacher here as scum since I made it a 1v1 anyway. I kinda dislike emps post-Teacher claim but eh.

The claim explains why I found Teacher offmeta and I tunneled myself into scumreading most of his posts plus the omgus.

VOTE: nacl

If Nacl is town I think it makes it likely Holden + emps? I'd have to look at the voting but I don't think I like Kaniffe with either of them. Holden defending me here is +town if I don't go down. Wagon isn't outside of their scum range but falls on the town side.

Caveat being I know I'm town here and the confirm is pushing for my lynch so I know it's safe for scum to say the lynch is bad and vote anyways. I guess this was a long way of saying I'm suspicious of pretty much everyone.

Can you explain how emps felt off in those posts post claim.

[HoldenGolden]

RC and NaCl I dont see as a scum team based of reds interactions with NaCl and it does not feel RC is distancing himself from Salty boi.

Kan/RC doesn't seem likely. Springfleg is out of the question.

RC/emps and RC/wagon would be the only way I would see the teams working out if RC is scum which only the former sounds possible due to my read on wagon. I could see where that is possible after reading reds, RC, and emps isos.

Emps and NaCl I will say definently have one scum among them. I would rather we vote NaCl today, but I will hammer RC because I feel a flip would be better right now regardless of how I feel.

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: NaCl for noe

[HoldenGolden]

Basically the same as the top VC but me and wagon on NaCl

Rc 4
Nacl 3
Kan 1

[HoldenGolden]

Can someone do a count

What do you make of reds interactions with NaCl? That's holding me back from seeing that team

[HoldenGolden]

Wagonomics is my top not confirmed town for several reasons. His early d1 wasnt great yes, but his progression since then I feel comes from a townie perspective in several ways. His questioning and reasoning behind his vote on teacher compared to someone like RC feels good. There has been other little stuff too like tonal and his VCA post that's pushed him up there.

I would look into who flips red to see if this holds up. Iirc, teacher made the comment that wagon does not push his teammates unless he sees a way to advance his agenda. It is going to take associative reads if he is scum to catch.

[HoldenGolden]

He also plays starcraft apparently so I'm inclined to like him

[HoldenGolden]

Does this lack of activity mean that scum are happy with the lynch, and me and Holden’s intent?
Or have we caught scum?
Just the fact that we really don’t have a counterwagon has me kind of worried...
Or are scum satisfied with being caught on this one...?
Don’t reckon. Scum don’t stop fighting. I mean, maybe they do. I don’t know.

I will say, though, that I really don’t like this lynch...
But we do have to lynch someone if there’s a chance they’re scum.
And I can’t think of anyone I want flashwagoned.

Well yes, but actually no.

If you turn out to be scum and I was right about cyrus Springfield, I'm going to blow a gasket.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm going to have to hammer soon since I cant promise I'll be on before deadline. I got about 30 mins.

[HoldenGolden]

Well gotta go so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rcegnima

[HoldenGolden]

Wait, why is it today and not tomorrow? Shouldn't we no lynch today?

It's up to yall, but I would like some time before a no lynch because of the high likely hood of me getting shot if we go down that path

[HoldenGolden]

Is there a particular strategy for the popcorning?

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm, this game is hard. I'm going to consult the magic eightball

[HoldenGolden]

Eight ball says emps is scum and NaCl is most likely to be scum. I shall now find the contextual evidence to prove this.

[HoldenGolden]

i rolled 2 and 4

so its holden and wagonlad(not actual SRs just memery)

Wow what an OMGUS. Clearly scum.

[HoldenGolden]

Fair enough, then. I'm VT, I'd like Kaniffee next.

Hmm guess it's only been 4 hours but still annoyed that my shift at work ended and we don't have a claim here yet

We dont need claims anymore. Magic eightball has provided enough info.

[HoldenGolden]

Fair enough, then. I'm VT, I'd like Kaniffee next.

Hmm guess it's only been 4 hours but still annoyed that my shift at work ended and we don't have a claim here yet

We dont need claims anymore. Magic eightball has provided enough info.

wait, what if there is a PR with a guilty? should they still claim?

The magic eight ball rule states PRs do not matter as they are really heretics.

I will give you 12 hours to prepare yourself mere mortal. The God has spoken.

[HoldenGolden]

*sharps the execution axe while whistling*

[HoldenGolden]

I might of gave her too much credit, but regardless I'm ISOing everybody tomorrow once I'm out of the mountains since it takes a minute to load a page.

My gut, and ball, is telling me emps.

[HoldenGolden]

You are giving me flashbacks of cyrus claim
Stop giving me flashbacks of cyrus claim

[HoldenGolden]

Well it seems springfleg has adopted cyrus Hamlet approach to the game. I'm mafia goon.

I'm Just Kidding!

VT, popcorn salt because I like salt with my popcorn

[HoldenGolden]

Oh yeah, popcorn emps then

[HoldenGolden]

Also, if youre feeling me for scum, explain who my scumbuddy is likely to be.

You guys went with teacher/emps yesterday as a gamesolve, but teacher is a dead PR.

Removing Wagon from the pool, I can actually see you with kaniffee now that I think about it. Have to go back and read everything though after I stop for the night.

@everyone, go ahead and formulate the singular person you think is scum and case them and list their possible teammates.

[HoldenGolden]

Honestly I'm finding my scumhunting tactic to be too objective and lenient if that makes sense.

[HoldenGolden]

Is there a good article on VCA I can read? I want to do one

[HoldenGolden]

I'm going to be very upset if scum is springfleg and kaniffee no matter how unlikely it is

[HoldenGolden]

VC 1.FINAL

[5]

Iconeum:

[/color]

RCEnigma

Spangled, Wagonomics,

teacher,

Kaniffee

(Lynch)

[1] RCEnigma:

emps

[1] Spangled:

Iconeum

[1] teacher:

NaCl

[1] Not Voting:

HoldenGolden

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-07 21:00:00)

For later

[HoldenGolden]

Now I'm just paranoid.

Wagon, pinkle promise me you are town. Note that this is a bigger deal than a legal contract. There are no backies. If you violate the trust set in place with this promise, you are effectively worse then Hitler. I would see too it that I join every game you play in just to spite you. Endlessly throwing my vote onto you over and over again, watching you burn in mafia hell.

But we dont have to worry about that because you are town....right?

[HoldenGolden]

At this point I'm not a fan of people susing Wagon so much. To me he's the most likely town besides Holden.
Scum is probably NaCl with team in Spangled or Emps. Not sure who yet.

He is still pretty comfy in my town list, but pinkle promises are the ULTIMATE check for this game.

[HoldenGolden]

I would bet 200 wagon coins on Wagonomics being town, and I don't make a bet I know I'm going to lose!

Wagon

That's not a pinkle promise

[HoldenGolden]

I'll pinki promise so long as you promise not to ask me to pinkie promise in any game in the future. I don't want to be accused of pinkie telling!

Deal

Wagon is nice confirmed town

[HoldenGolden]

Welcome all to Holden's mobile VCA. Instead of doing those long ass posts, I will be doing this bite size over the next couple days since I majority play on mobile. Got it? Good.

First major wagon

VC 1.2

[4] cyrus62:

emps, NaCl, HoldenGolden, Jackal711

(L-1)

[1] NaCl:

cyrus62

[1] Jackal711:

Wagonomics

[1] Kaniffee:

teacher

[2] Not Voting:

Kaniffee, RedFlavor

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-06 06:00:00)

@Mod: An Updated VC would be very good right now.

You guys go fast yo. I was sleeping.

Off of the back of my intial push, the cyrus wagon quickly got to L1. We know Jackel was town, so that leaves NaCl and Emps on the wagon with me. Both had semi ok entrances onto the wagon, however, emps townlean flip into scum lean looks worse out of the two.

VC 1.3

[4] cyrus62:

emps, NaCl, HoldenGolden, Jackal711

(L-1)

[3] Jackal711:

Wagonomics, RedFlavor, cyrus62

[1] Kaniffee:

teacher

[1] Not Voting:

Kaniffee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-07-06 06:00:00)

Counter wagon forms on jackel with red being town. Tipping point is reached for scum!cyrus

Emps coasts a bit here.

post 684 feels incredibly townie to me given the fact that we know that jackel was town. It feels like genuine paranoida about the cyrus slot and trying to understand the confirm town on him. This eliminates NaCl and springfleg from being scum together. They already was at the tipping point at that point, yet NaCl remains on the wagon pushing his scum buddy? I think not. It would be too dangerous of a gambit imo when he could of taken the easier route out of it by sheeping the confirm town sentiment that was forming. Now, he does unvote later, but this feels ok given this progression here.

Wagon also pinkle promised, so I dont have to heavily consider his vote. Plus, I agree with teachers earlier remarks that his play during that would be too passive if he and Springfleg was a team.

So far, it's looking that springfleg can only be really scum with kaniffee, whom he pushed entering the thread. I have to remind myself to look at that interaction. If that can be sorted, then we potentially have springfleg unpartnerable and therefore town pretty much.

[HoldenGolden]

So emps + kani is party solve?

Idk, prove it.

Also I'm not going to lie. My game plan this game was to get universally townread so I would die and not be in this position. Now I'm getting promoted to sheep herder?

Feels bad man.

[HoldenGolden]

Anyone know the count? I kind want to give intent on Cyrus. A couple more recent posts pinged me and I think it is a game advancing lynch regardless.

Cyrus at L-3.
Jackal at L-2
VOTE: cyrus
Cyrus is now at L-2.

I dont really know if his unvote and revote is incredibly scummy, but it is weird regardless. He didnt mind when the intial wagon on cyrus got to l-1 or L-2 before, but then worries about it afterwards?

[HoldenGolden]

I guess also how slow the game was during the time both jackel and cyrus were leading is another indicator of springfleg being town.

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: Kani

*insert argument here*

I instantly regret the pinkle promise I made with you.

You know i was going to talk about how I felt you might of scum slipped in your VCA, but I didnt because of the promise. I respect the promise. I know the important of the pinkle promise. So I knew I was wrong and it wasnt it all because PINKLE PROMISE!!!

I want a real arguement

[HoldenGolden]

respecc the pinkie promise

You like mech scum hunting and list. Make a list of all possible scum partners.

[HoldenGolden]

Wagon and emps would be possible if it was not for the pinkle promise. I refuse to believe that wagon wanting me to explain my town on him was him trying to use it against me as scum.

[HoldenGolden]

woah you knew i like mech scum hunting?

You have admitted it to me after I said I didnt know what I'm doing.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm playing wet and wild here babee

Kani was super passive early game, for a bit it reminded me of My First Game but ultimately I see that type of behavior way more from scum than from town

Beyond that doing the vote just because salt asked for the vote is kinda ehhhh

and I have a decently sized townblock in spangled + holden which means kani + emps + nacl should be 2/3 anyway and I never get scum vibes from nacl's individual posts even if abstractly his wagon position is usually where I'd think scum should be

so *shrug* why's emps better than kani if that's your argument?

What do you think of NaCl based on the little amount of VCA that I did?

[HoldenGolden]

So we are all basically suspecting kaniffee at this point yes?

[HoldenGolden]

uh yeah pretty much

So that would mean that her partner would be totally ok at this point in bussing them with no soild case against them?

[HoldenGolden]

uh yeah pretty much

So that would mean that her partner would be totally ok at this point in bussing them with no soild case against them?

actually now that i think about it, wagon+kani makes more sense to me than kani+nacl

i can kinda get behind kani+spangled because of the weird way hes been pushing a me lynch > a kani lynch today.

What do you make of his overall read mindset then on kaniffee? That's what bothering me about that team.

God why I'm asking questions? 2/5ths of you are out to shoot me.

[HoldenGolden]

Springfleg

[HoldenGolden]

I think in that moment saying either doc or cop would've been reasonable. To me there's no reason why cop and why not doc. It could've been either for town!Cyrus.
With the second point are you implying that a doctor would try to protect Cyrus(assuming there is one)?

keep in mind i was reading a book and then notist this queston i was hoping that since every one thought i soft pr that if i draw the night kill that the doc might save me if there was one

Hmm okay. So at this point either you actually are the cop or you're not the cop (because you're either scum or vt). No matter which way you slice it this was really bad strategy. However it seems more like you're panicking because you don't want to be lynched or NK then like you're actually a cop. I guess this is more scummy or PR than not, but considering how nervous you've been throughout this game I think you would do this as a vt too. I'm debating voting based on lynch all liars at this point, but I believe you're still L-1, and it seems too early to end the day at this point.

Kaniffee confusion over cyrus also feels for grounds to throw away that team. So unless springfleg is super super good scum, I do not really see any viable teams he can be on.