Newbie 1937 | Maths | Over

[Donempire]

2 days?
2 hours?
Psycho Mantis?
What are everybodys read on my slot? I didnt read the game but i feel like that would be a good starting point.
Also, hi lads. Im town again, since i have impossibly bad luck rolling scum.

[Donempire]

UNVOTE:

[Donempire]

You're the one strongarming the discussion?

[Donempire]

I did replace in at an unavailable time of day, so i wont post and i wont be able to read. I'll make it up to you by doing them both later. In the meantime, my question about your reads on my slot still stands. What are your thoughts CC?

[Donempire]

I read the iso of my predecessor, i give at least that much of a fuck. I didnt see it important enough to warrant a response. But your efforts wont go in vain. No such thing as bad material.
Yet i dont see why you would pick that route as a way to make a reaction test. I couldve easily disproven you by isoing myself, and it would be hard in general to understand the alignment from that.

[Donempire]

As a rule of thumb, if the game goes into day 2 with a mislynch, your duty as town is to be loud as possible to disrupt scum from controlling the narrative. 2 in 7 is actually a pretty high amount if we're talking scum numbers, so letting our guard down like this wont do us any favors. I am fine with minor details as long as they pertain to the game and aid us in moving the discussion forward.

I'm still reading.

[Donempire]

It's coming down to this; I think that Clarity is likely mafia. I don't know how players are town reading Clarity. However, I'm clearly not going to get the lynch that I want. The only two other players who have votes on them are Dong/Zeeb and Imp. I don't want the lynch to be on the Zeeb slot. Imp wasn't my top lynch pick, but with only 32 hours left and very little activity, I am going to have to compromise.

VOTE: Imperator

L-1

Someone should throw down intent to hammer soon.

Welcome btw Dong! May you enjoy your time in this game more then I have.

I object to this lynch.

I havent had a word in. I'd like things to progress in an orderly fashion right now.

[Donempire]

And for those who believe in intentional lurking. Lucky logged on today and hasn’t contributed either.

7 minutes later. Not a coincidence.

He’s scum ladies and gentlemen.

You know what, it is a fucking coincidence. It's 5pm here. I've just gotten home. I have work, and you know what, other games that are in various other states that I might be checking on. I might have been checking on the state of the two inactives of this game as well. And seeing that they're unresolved, I decide to get back in and try to move along. But you decide the only answer here is that I'm active lurking because you're so confbiased/deadset on painting me as scum that literally anything I do at this point you're going to spin.

Now it's pretty clear you're the one interested in doing misreps, bud.

VOTE: robbnva

Bookmarked this.

While Otter's reasoning here for not playing is sound, that isnt what matters.

This kind of voting style - voting someone not because you are confident they are scum, but rather because they have been pressuring on you with false or insufficent material - isnt town motivated.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=79739
This quote here reminded me of this post, from my previous game,

Looking at Skygazer's ISO it's shitposting and the occasional but of play. Dong if you're gonna accuse me of filler and weak questions and come after me for that, but say nothing to Skygazer (or, actually, Purccocet) for the same thing (if not worse) then you're blatantly still just pursuing this timezone fuckery argument. This is a lame ass tunnel to make yourself out to be willing to be controversial so you can town clear yourself. I don't buy it for a second.
VOTE: dong

If you compare these two posts, they actually are pretty similar in content, (apart from the fact that i was pushing on conman with more than flimsy reasoning)
They both try to deflect the argument from themselves and onto other inactive players,
They both make valid argument for why they couldnt play but one that doesnt pertain to the reason people are scumreading them,
And they both make very weak arguments for voting the opposition. Notice how they dont even say they think the accusing party is scum.

What do you think, King? Are you still deadset on Clearly? Can you make time for this, then we can move on?

[Donempire]

Notes as of page 10:
Robb made the game ten times harder by flooding the game with bad reads and bad content in general. No matter, no such thing as unusable content.
Lucky is an important person to note. I've noticed a few contradictions in his posting, but i'll figure out what to do with that later.
Robb's delusion of him being correct on otter stopped him from making game advancing posts for a long time. I think it warrants a looking into, but we have more pressing matters.
Imperator aligning himself with robb in voting for otter is interesting, especially when he ended up voting for robb in the end. He doesnt bring up any points for agreeing with him.
Jocus was also townreading robb even if he didnt agree with him, so what transpired that made him vote robb?
Jocus is definitely town. I need to sort imperator too.
Oh jolly good. Robb also townread imperator because he buddied him too. Did he get a single good read in?
So what im seeing is, imperator kept buddying robb until he lynched him. How did that happen?

I'm asking the question broadly on purpose. I want you to give your thoughts on TTTT and his "scumhunting"

this is shade throwing. I dont like this post.
I think thats it for now.

[Donempire]

alright im at page 13 and just reading robbs shitty posts are tiring me out. I'm legitimately wondering if i should skip to day 2 right now.

[Donempire]

And yes, you guys should stop talking.

btw this type of statement usually comes from town

No it doesnt.

I cant for the life of me see any reason why you would want people to stop talking in a game where the goal is to talk as much and solve as much.

[Donempire]

And yes, you guys should stop talking.

btw this type of statement usually comes from town

How do you figure?

I'm town
I'm pretty sure

[--]

is town
so under the TvT assumption
scum love seeing TvT spats overwhelming the thread

Removed accidental reference to ongoing game on request --P

Silly you.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=79739
Again, i have to give an example from my previous game.

Look at the argument between Saske and URAP. Its a TVT that was basically the focal point of D2. It helped us win the game.

TVT is usefull if you can make use of it, as with everything else in this game. It is really shortsighted to say that town would discourage TVT because, "town" wouldnt.

Scum do not love seeing TVT spats that you can make sense out of because then they lose. I think thats where the argument should end.

[Donempire]

Reading robb and imperators posts are making me cringe, so im taking a break.

Here are my reads thus far:

Imperator

- There are more holes in your argument than there are in a swiss cheese, and you were buddying robb hard. Either you have no clue how to play town or you tried coasting the game which didnt work out. Number 2 lynch priority.

CC

- I have a bad feeling about you. Yet i dont have enough evidence to back it up since i didnt read everything up to this point yet, so i cant say for sure that you are scum right now.

King

- Definitely town. You can thank your predecessor for that. I havent gotten around to the point where you replaced in, but jocus did a damn fine job playing.

Pema

- I have a good feeling about you, but like Clarity, i cant really pin it down to a quote or anything like that.

Eggs

- Town. Liked your entry posts.

Otter

- Already gave one reason for my scumread, and i'll provide more to come.

[Donempire]

I havent done an old styled readlist in a long while. Takes me back.

[Donempire]

I'm done reading.

I'm certain that we shouldnt lynch imperator here.

The fact is, his lynch will still serve to leave us in the dark. Any and all associations we could make out of his lynch are nonexistent since robb and tttt both died. If we mislynch here, d3 will be nigh unsalvagable. Even if we lynch correctly, we will most likely mislynch day 3 due to the fact that we wont be able to make associations based on his flip.

That is why i propose an otter lynch. Along with the proof i already provided in 870 showing that kind of thought process is scummy, there are a lot of other posts as well that caught my eye that i dont have time to elaborate on right now due to time constraints. I dont like to flip a lynch this far into the day but i truly believe that we will be wasting our lynch with this. Whatever otter flips, there will be enough associations we can make that the game will be practically solved, and im pretty sure that he will flip scum anyway, so i see no reason why we shouldnt go forward with this.

There is a chance that imperator might be a new town that just didnt know what to do and tried a lot of different things to move the game along. I dont see that kind of deal with otter.

VOTE: LuckyOtter
Right now to even be able to register a lynch, you should be voting this because otherwise we'll either no lynch or lynch imperator, both pretty bad options in my eyes. If there is any confusion about this, ask quickly and i shall answer.

[Donempire]

I don't think otter is a good lynch, I doubt I'll be voting there. If Imperator isn't good, I can compromise on pema or KIY but you don't like KIY.

Pema is the same deal. He has a miniscule post amount and no associations can be made from a pema lynch. It will be a shot in the dark.
And i think king is a valuable asset. I couldnt get to reading him, but i am confident in my jocus read enough for now to not worry about it.

No matter how i look at this, otter is the best lynch. If we can get this through, im sure the game will reveal itself to us.

[Donempire]

If we lynch otter, what are your reads resulting from green and red respectively? Appreciate lack of time but indication of who is in your head would be useful.

Green pretty much means imperator is confirmed scum. I doubt this is the case though. If this happens, i'll explain why that is, but for clarification, his actions day 1 (if otter is town) suggest that he may be trying to kill off otter and then blame robb for that. Again, doubt it, so i wont think too much about it.
If he is red, then i'll have to sort between cc and pema, and im pretty sure we can win from there.

[Donempire]

I understand your thought process. However, we dont have much time to dally around with this. I need a majority consensus on either one of these lynches or we will go into mylo and that is the worst case scenario. Its better not to think about it right now and get a clear view tomorrow. As soon as otter comes and claims we should be ready to make a decision.

[Donempire]

All of you are taking the easy route out of this. Just think about what i said for a moment. Imperator can wait.

[Donempire]

Dong, sell me more on an Otter lynch. This bit is the only evidence I could find for your wagon:

This kind of voting style - voting someone not because you are confident they are scum, but rather because they have been pressuring on you with false or insufficent material - isnt town motivated.

These two are not mutually exclusive — quite the opposite. Only scum would necessitate pressuring someone based on false evidence or misrepresentation, which was precisely what Robb was doing. Furthermore, even if you do assume that Otter voted Robb despite believing he's town, like Eggs aptly pointed out, he wasn't the only one. There are other things about Otter's ISO that I don't enjoy, most recently his revealing Eggs' gambit (but also just a general wishywashy vibe from his posts where he's entertaining every possibility without committing to any single one), but his voting Robb isn't sufficient proof.

I cant make a full fledged case on otter right now. Not only have i not read the entire thread, it would take time to make a case and for everyone to read and make their conclusions based on that too. A day simply isnt enough to flesh out a case. That is why im asking you do this first and think later.

Imperator is most likely not scum but rather inexperienced town. If we go through with this lynch and he flips town, we will be left with nothing day 3 and the narrative will most likely be controlled by scum since it'll be nigh on impossible to get the remaining 3 town to vote especially with no material on hand.

It isnt simply about killing scum, its about preperation for day 3 as well.

[Donempire]

Then i'll prove imperator is town. Show me the hard evidence.

[Donempire]

Otters iso is way too long to even bother with paraphrasing, so if i can just convince you that imperator is not worth your time, what will you do then?

[Donempire]

Then i'll prove imperator is town. Show me the hard evidence.

You think Imp is town?

Reading robb and imperators posts are making me cringe, so im taking a break.

Here are my reads thus far:

Imperator

- There are more holes in your argument than there are in a swiss cheese, and you were buddying robb hard. Either you have no clue how to play town or you tried coasting the game which didnt work out. Number 2 lynch priority.

I recognize that you read a lot more of the game between these two posts, but that's still a bit of a 180 with a gap of ~30 posts. What changed your mind?

I didnt change my read. He is still my second lynch priority. However, you cant make a solid argument against him. That is why i asked you to bring forth your so called hard evidence. I am sure it will be very easy to disprove it.

[Donempire]

Alright. The curtain falls then. Had imperator arrived i might have been able to turn the lynch around but one man can only do so much.

If what i think is correct, then i know the scumteam. That is, if imperator flips town. Thankfully, this lynch will no longer leave us in the dark thanks to the increased contribution of everyone regarding the matter of an otter lynch.

I'm afraid you'll have to earn your victory here though. I dont want to simply spout the scumteam because there is no guarentee you'll follow my lead without proof. Good luck. You have enough material to solve this now.

[Donempire]

Its a common tactic. I guess as the only remaining experienced player it befalls upon me to explain ccs intentions in mind.

The lynch is clearly going to be imperator, since he couldnt be bothered to even comment on his lynch. So you may ask, whats the point in doing this?

The reason is simple, and its why she gave 3 scumreads in the first place. Its not to decide on THIS lynch, its to create a foundation for future lynches. If she decided to push me or otter tomorrow, for example, she could go back to this post and say she suspected us all along. Thats the whole point of that post. And the reason she asked others to do so was so she wouldnt stand out as the only one doing it.

Was i able to clear it up?

[Donempire]

I like your carefree attitude. I assume this means you have solved the game, yes? Next day you'll have a chance to show that, so prepare.

[Donempire]

Why do you think that is necessary?

Im sad that king had to die. I had faith in him that he would clear the day easily, but oh well.

What i said still stands, and now that applies to you instead eggs. We have plenty of material. I already know who scum is, so i have to convey it to you all now.

Lets start with a few easy questions:
Why am i town?
Why is pema town?
What were clearlyclaritys intentions with her giving 3 scumreads?

[Donempire]

Come on, you really believe you can't solve this without your bullshit massclaim?

You sadly won't learn anything from that. I assume you think you're making progress by having everyone claim, but to the contrary, it will only serve to stagnate the discussion.

So please, humble me. I can easily lay out my reasoning for why the scum are scum and leave it at that. I want you to find it out on your own.

Can you answer my questions?

[Donempire]

Hmm, powerroles. I was reading peta as completely town until now due to his behaviour. Guess i was wrong.

Damn, i made myself sad. I never thought i'd get a read wrong. Thats what cockiness gets you. It still doesnt count since its a replacement, so i still have %100 correct reads.

[Donempire]

Me/pema shouldnt be likely from your perspective. It is the only possibility from your pov. Yet you still dont see.

Now eggs, i'll show you what you dont see.

[Donempire]

Like as scum he'd know Imp was town, but Imp's ISO is hard to frame as an actual townread. Dong's weird flip-flop on Imp is like trying to have his cake and eat it too. Yes, Imp is a hard scumread and number two lynch priority because his ISO sucks, but he's also town probably?? Like what were you even trying to say here? Fighting so hard against your number two lynch priority is a big

Objection? It seems you still dont understand my intention.

I knew imperator was town. I read his interaction with robb in day 1 and i thought he was scum. That was when i posted the readlist. Whatever he was doing was antitown.

Yet when i read his iso again, i realized that what he was doing, while hindered town in the long run, wasnt done with an anti town intention.

Let me explain it this way. He was doing bad things with good intentions. He didnt know they would be a hinderance later on, and thats why he pressed on.

Thats why when it came to the lynch time, i wanted an otter lynch instead of imperator lynch. I didnt have any solid evidence otter was scum at the moment, but i was going by robb's read and i thought i would be able to make associations based on his flip. This of course never happened.

However, after seeing the reaction of clarity to such a lynch, i made up my mind that even thought imperator was town, his flip would be fruitful for me in the long run. Thats why i stopped objecting after everyone commented.

Its a long term plan. I stopped scumreading imperator, but i never said i did so the lynch would go through normally and the reactions would be genuine.

I thought it was pretty simple as far as long term plans go, but you seem to have missed the memo.

[Donempire]

Well, eggs, my one read was wrong, but the other was true after all. Can you figure out why clarity is scum? I can give you hints if you are stuck.

[Donempire]

Like as scum he'd know Imp was town, but Imp's ISO is hard to frame as an actual townread. Dong's weird flip-flop on Imp is like trying to have his cake and eat it too. Yes, Imp is a hard scumread and number two lynch priority because his ISO sucks, but he's also town probably?? Like what were you even trying to say here? Fighting so hard against your number two lynch priority is a big

fds

Sorry, I'm not seeing this. You're saying you'd white lied about two things: one, that you scumread Imperator to the day's end; and two, that you actually had solid reasons for scumreading Otter. And now you're saying that they were both reaction tests? Just one of them, I could maybe buy; but two feels too much like an excuse for your inconsistent reasoning.

Why not?

[Donempire]

I knew imperator was town. I read his interaction with robb in day 1 and i thought he was scum. That was when i posted the readlist. Whatever he was doing was antitown.

Yet when i read his iso again, i realized that what he was doing, while hindered town in the long run, wasnt done with an anti town intention.

Let me explain it this way. He was doing bad things with good intentions. He didnt know they would be a hinderance later on, and thats why he pressed on.

Thats why when it came to the lynch time, i wanted an otter lynch instead of imperator lynch. I didnt have any solid evidence otter was scum at the moment, but i was going by robb's read and i thought i would be able to make associations based on his flip. This of course never happened.

You say you were townreading imperator.

If we lynch otter, what are your reads resulting from green and red respectively? Appreciate lack of time but indication of who is in your head would be useful.

Green pretty much means imperator is confirmed scum. I doubt this is the case though. If this happens, i'll explain why that is, but for clarification, his actions day 1 (if otter is town) suggest that he may be trying to kill off otter and then blame robb for that. Again, doubt it, so i wont think too much about it.
If he is red, then i'll have to sort between cc and pema, and im pretty sure we can win from there.

You're scumreading imperator in a town!otter world there.

What?

You have to realize at the time i thought pema was probably town. This meant i reduced it to a otter/cc or a impera/cc situation, the latter i found unlikely. Since i was sure imperator was town by that point, the only other likely possibility was otter/cc, which i tried to push. If i was wrong, then my read would have been wrong, which would have meant imperator scum, which i didnt consider
As
i
say
in the
quote.
I dont know how you people are being confused by the slightest thing. I can understand cc feigning it, but you i dont.

[Donempire]

Now eggs, answer my questions. I have been forward with you in answering your questions, yet you leave my questions hanging. Do you have the decency to answer?

[Donempire]

Mhm. I didnt say you were an idiot, and even if i did, why would you dwell on that.

No, my arguing right now isnt the best because im not trying to make a point. I knew cc was scum since yesterday, its just a revelation to me today that pema was scum. So im trying to teach you how you can pick up on clues. That is my job as the SE.
You refuse to listen and give witty one liners that really drain me of my energy to continue playing though. That is the only reason why i havent voted pema and waited for the day to end too, cause im here to teach. All you had to do was put your trust in me, and you botched it up.

And your answers of course have been lacking and mocking as usual. Look, i know who the scum is. I have until tomorrow to prove it so im just passing time here. Yet you are insulting me by not even taking me seriously. Put me being your ally or your enemy aside for a moment, and just answer my questions as if an exam was being done. I promise that in the end, you'll see why clsriy is scum without me spoonfeeding it to you. Are you up for it? Or would you like to go the boring way? This is a serious question, if you choose the latter i will vote pema and wait for the day to end, since i have nothing to gain by circlejerking today.

[Donempire]

Tldr, im not going to show why clarity is scum, you will with my questions. Is it okay?

[Donempire]

Thats okay. In fact thats what i want you to do, find the truth by yourself, by your own skills. Just thought i'd get my intentions out clearly.

[Donempire]

Dong/pema is still likely btw. Talk more tomorrow.

Why "likely"?

Meaning your guilty on pema didn't change my scumread on Dong. Nothing in their ISOs disproves their association.

Lolllolololololololo

Aleiright i cant see what im typing so sorry for anu typos

Its time pema. The ball is in your court..if you wann push the cop clsim forward you'll have to give us a reason why..if nog, at least debate eggs on this. This is your only wincondition as town and not actively debating eggs is tantamount to gamethrowing (not really, but im just saying dont do it.)

[Donempire]

Egga im waiting on you to ask the questions by the way. So give me the go when you are ready

[Donempire]

Lolllolololololololo

Aleiright i cant see what im typing so sorry for anu typos

You realize that Eggs is going to be the nightkill tonight, right? So if you're trying to wheedle him into a scumread onto me, now's your only chance.

Im not stressed buddy. When push comes to shove i have my argument ready. Right now my priority is to teach you scrubs how to play the game.
And besides, i had just gotten out of the doctor who gave me a few drops, so i literally couldnt see properly. So i couldnt make an argument

[Donempire]

Eggs please spoiler that or just dont post it at all

[Donempire]

Doesnt matter how much you worked hard on it. There is no reason to get the votecounts for every phase when there are much better AND convenient ways to scumhunt. No reason to bust your ass compared to having a better method.

[Donempire]

VCAs are perfectly valid ways to scumhunt tho?

"Better and convenient" i didnt say vcas werent valid ways to scumhunt, just as shitting while you're handstanding is a valid way to shit. It doesnt mean its the best way or makes any sense.

Like, you're letting your desire to coach Eggs overtake actually helping them scumhunt. I say quit waffling around and lay out your case on me if you want Eggs to see it that badly.

I am gonna let my urge to coach get in the way of everything. As i said, there is no point for me playing this game anymore besides at least try to transfer my knowledge. I can help you if you want, this isnt exclusive to eggs. I just didnt offer since you view me as an enemy as per our roles.
And no reason to lay out my case today. The lynch is pema, yes? We're just postponing so eggs can get his word in. If i laid out my reasoning now, it would get misinterpreted by both you and otter tomorrow. So no rush.

[Donempire]

VCAs are perfectly valid ways to scumhunt tho?

"Better and convenient" i didnt say vcas werent valid ways to scumhunt, just as shitting while you're handstanding is a valid way to shit. It doesnt mean its the best way or makes any sense.

Like, you're letting your desire to coach Eggs overtake actually helping them scumhunt. I say quit waffling around and lay out your case on me if you want Eggs to see it that badly.

I am gonna let my urge to coach get in the way of everything. As i said, there is no point for me playing this game anymore besides at least try to transfer my knowledge. I can help you if you want, this isnt exclusive to eggs. I just didnt offer since you view me as an enemy as per our roles.
And no reason to lay out my case today. The lynch is pema, yes? We're just postponing so eggs can get his word in. If i laid out my reasoning now, it would get misinterpreted by both you and otter tomorrow. So no rush.

Why are you concerned what CC thinks about your intentions, though?

I dont understand what you are asking. If it is about the second part of the quote where i say "misinterpreted by you", i said that as she would ignore the meat of my argument and make a strawman out of it if i tried making an argument today, and thats what i meant by misinterpreted.

[Donempire]

I do. I think its pretty weak but its never wise to disregard a PR claim outright and let the other claim take the reins easily. I'm waiting on pema to actually argue with Eggs on that regard.

[Donempire]

I may be a trash scrub player but I hope my input is worth more than zero, in which case you Vs dong is what needs to be discussed before I die. And if they leave me alive and kill otter and he hasn't talked out you Vs dong then we are up the hypothetical without a paddle.

Well, i'm not going to make any big accusations on clarity yet. I'm saving those for day 3, when it actually matters. As i said, im still waiting on your mark to ask my questions.

[Donempire]

I guess i can see where you would come to that conclusion. Here is what i see:

First few of his posts are trying to tackle robbs gamestyle. Already this is a good start because instead of trying to pin a simple town or scum read on robb he tries to understand where he is coming from. This is unnecessary for scum to do, especially new scum when it is far easier to distance himself from robb and vote him when the tide shifts against him. 87, 90 and 97 all support this line of thinking.

174 is the smoking gun. Entire game he tried to understand where he was coming from, and now that he does, he doesnt like that thinking at all. However, instead of attacking him in game, saying that this line of thinking is antitown while ignoring other games, instead he rails on him for being a jerk and directly attacks him. Bare in mind, before this, robb never even accused zeebu so zeebu as scum has nothing to gain from doing this. He doesnt even accuse robb of being scum while doing this either, the only reason he does this is he believes he is making the game less enjoyable for everyone.
Now to the point of everything i have said. Why does this make zeebu town? Precisely because he didnt care about his role while he was making that post.
That kind of post might aggro robb to rail on zeebu further, while zeebu would be backed down without any argument because he was precisely aiming not to make an argument in that post. Yet in the face of that, zeebu still posted something like that because at that point his role didnt matter to him, all that mattered was that he had to say this to robb.
Scum wouldnt do this. Scum cant afford to make such a major mistake. And that is why zeebu is town.

And regarding clarity, i dont think thats all there is to it. But i'm not going to empty my ammunition today. Still, i'm happy that you answered.

[Donempire]

Now onto some POV questions for you:
1: Why was KIY so adamant on lynching CC?
2: What were the precise reasons for otters vote on robb in post 205?

I'm awaiting your answers on these.

[Donempire]

You're wrong. Thats seeing things on their very surface level. You cant scumhunt like that.

I'll explain tomorrow. Sleeping now.

[Donempire]

1) inconsistent and unmotivated voting - not demonstrating a clear pattern of reads and/or not attempting to lynch in line with them, just sheeping a bunch of wagons
2) that's lashing out in frustration. I expect he was conflating unpleasant behaviour with scummy behaviour to some extent there, or mixing motivations to lynch scummy people with lynching people he didn't like.

He doesnt vote at all. See, what town should be doing in the very early game (until page 6 or 7) understand where everyones coming from and make reads based on that, especially in newbie games where people most likely dont know each other. Voting someone here without knowing anything muddies the water for town, and that of course benefits scum. He isnt sheeping anything there, i would like you to show me the posts where he was apparently sheeping people. All i see is he is him getting his thoughts together.

And as i precisely said, that is lashing out in frustration. However, when you understand the context behind that, it is very much out of the game material. He doesnt attach a scumread to robbs actions and is chastising him instead for a different reason. As scum, not only would this give him unwarranted attention, if robb was to push back against him he would be left with no argument whatsoever. That is why as scum its unthinkable he would do that.

[Donempire]

huh?

I'm zeebus replacement, why would i want to lynch him?

[Donempire]

oh shit
alright wait let me clear my thoughts on this i thought you were responding to something else
nevermind my last three posts i shat the bed hard

[Donempire]

1) inconsistent and unmotivated voting - not demonstrating a clear pattern of reads and/or not attempting to lynch in line with them, just sheeping a bunch of wagons
2) that's lashing out in frustration. I expect he was conflating unpleasant behaviour with scummy behaviour to some extent there, or mixing motivations to lynch scummy people with lynching people he didn't like.

Sorry for saying you were wrong in the previous post. I thought you were somehow replying to my zeebu post and i was sleepy. I apologize.
Both of these are correct. I would like to maybe elaborate on the second part a bit, and you can see where i came to the conclusion otter was scum.

I agree that he may be conflating unpleasant behaviour with scummy behaviour there. However, even if you did that, it is a very weak point to push. Scum most often use this kind of lashing out to their advantage by voting someone without making an argument against them.
Where i was wrong however, is that i thought he was trying to push the discussion back into the inactive slots. I read the post on the surface level only and didnt notice that he actually wasnt trying to push the discussion onto the inactives. From my perspective, this was mirroring a previous game as i already said.
This kind of post is really finnicky to dissect, the kind that votes someone in frustration. It can come from both town and scum, and its my fault that i couldnt discern it. You really cant afford to make even a simple oversight like i have. I would like to talk more about this but i'm gonna get down more on the topic of clarity so maybe sometime later.

[Donempire]

Regarding clarity, she made a lot of posts where she gave pretty confident reads without any proof behind them. She sometimes gave reason for not elaborating on these, like in 206 where she said it was because she was on mobile, however she never came back to actually elaborate when she got back on PC. What do you make of this? Simple oversight or actively avoiding association? You can make arguments for both of these, so im interested to see which side will weigh more for you.

I think posts 537 to 540 perfectly illustrate why clearly is scum. She goes from voting robb, because she believes his discussion is ingenuine, then hops onto imperators case and votes him. I think you understand what im getting at here.
She isnt trying to find scum. She is trying to find reasons to scumread someone. Thats why she has no remorse just flipping in and out of wagons at a hearts beat. It doesnt matter if scum doesnt die, as long as she had good reasons for lynching them, she wont be reprimended. Thats her intention with these posts. Do you agree?

[Donempire]

Pema, eggs softed his cop claim in day 2. What do you think about that? He adamantly refused an otter lynch that day.

[Donempire]

Its also interesting how he never mentioned that he softed. If he was mafia and he planned this all along, going into d3 softing a town!otter you'd think he would call our attention to it. The way i see it is that it happened naturally. But i'm interested to hear your thoughts as well.

[Donempire]

Huh.

[Donempire]

Pema. I didnt make any argument, cc didnt make any argument. I dont see why we should lynch cc today. Lets go with pema.

[Donempire]

And who is it?

[Donempire]

Nevermind actually. I cant read.

[Donempire]

VOTE: pema
Whenecer you are ready.

[Donempire]

I wont. I was waiting on your case but if you dont intend to, we'll discuss this d3. Your choice

[Donempire]

VOTE: Clarity
I'm in vacation so i may not be in the best shape to make the argument i want to. Clarity, do you want to make the first move?

[Donempire]

I'll start then. I'll lay out my reasoning and you can say if anything doesnt mske sense.

Starting with 140, this doesnt accomplish much. Sure jocus responds but clarity never does anything with that info which seems like its simply there to give the illusion of content, since the game by that point is considerably active so i doubt it was just to increase activity.
Post 351 is throwind shade at jocus. Instead of saying how his actions relate to him being town or scum she just says that he... did them and leaves it at that. Very weak.
Posts 537 to 540 show a false sense of scumhunting. 537 itself is pretty flawed, calling his diacussion with imperator staged, which wouldnt that require them both to be scum? Anyhow, i dont understand the last part about robbs playstyle. If it is NAI, then its NAI. Sure he might be hurting town but hes still town, no? You seem to avoid calling the possibility of him being town throughout the whole post and that pings me a bit, like a subtler version of casting shade on him. Her case on robb doesnt really amount to much imo.
Then she immediately jumps to imperators case. Now without looking at how she goes about doing that the fact that she jumped from suspecting someone to suspecting someone else show to me that she isnt interested in solving robbs alignment and instead giving herself reasonable scumreads on anyone thats remotely suspicious. Now to what she has to say about imperator:
I dont think shes wrong actually. The points she raises are correct like the lamist posting. However impera buddied robb for a long while and i think glossing over it would make solving their alignment much harder. I dont know if that was intentional.

Not all i have to say but i can stop here depending on clarity.

[Donempire]

I didnt realize it came out this long, mobile doesnt help me. Im sorry if it inconveniences you

[Donempire]

Plotinus, can you give clarity some more time before replacement? I assume its also a holiday for her and it would be unneccesary to replace at this point in game anyway.

[Donempire]

Thank you

[Donempire]

Good game! It had some bumps toward the end but i feel like this was a fun game overall. Especially since i think we'd be damned if eggs wasnt cop so it was a close game :s Well played to everyone here.

[Donempire]

Ok