Newbie 1942: PTTHI1942 [game over]

[teacher]

Howdy. I’m the new flavorleaf. I’m planning on getting drunk and watching soccer today but I’ll read through tomorrow. Anyone want to try to slant my views?

[teacher]

Arc I’m now starting my readthrough. Could you get an vi? It’s a courtesy form of “facial” recognition for posts. If you aren’t graphically inclined give me a category and I can size a pic for you.

[teacher]

Townviiibes from Mr. Dong.

Why as of this point?

[teacher]

I got through p 14 and passed out. My claim is real, though bizarre, and agree with Christian though it is different than other times. The biggest change from meta for me is emps - he is pointing to vLa but has posted 100s of times a day while on vLa elsewhere. I’ll ketchup on the second half of the game soonjsh.

[teacher]

Agree with the Cyrussian*

[teacher]

Insane outbursts... jesus fucking christ im dealing with a child here

Having made it through two pages of this, I will say that Carl is town and acting like the responsible adult. I dont want to restart the fight, but look at who is doing the cussing/name-calling/quoting their own posts, and who is making rational points. There is a child, but it aint Carl.

@Carl, Im not as sold as the town acting unreasonably, because Ive definitely seen scum digging their heels in for that exact response. But I will see where Im at when Im fully caught up.

[teacher]

Go Carl first after me

Weird ass take on the last few pages.

@Donge, you said Carl lied and you meant it as a "lie" not misunderstanding. Can you quote the lie, becuase I didnt see it and you didnt quote it when you repeated it.

Pagetop

[teacher]

I felt the conviction screaming out at me. Don't really know how to put it.

Eh I didnt. Like Ive only lost my cool once in a mafia game. But that one had a slow burn of multiple name callings. This one felt like it went from 0-60 quite fast, like it was forced bravado rather than real emotion. But I have definitely misread cold records and didnt pay attention to timestamps, so am inclined to defer to your take while sharing my own for the two cents its worth.

[teacher]

Go Carl first after me

Weird ass take on the last few pages.

@Donge, you said Carl lied and you meant it as a "lie" not misunderstanding. Can you quote the lie, becuase I didnt see it and you didnt quote it when you repeated it.

Pagetop

No more dong

Tear.

I stopped at page 20 for a bit. No idea who my slot is on now but UNVOTE:

[teacher]

Howdy. I’m the new flavorleaf. I’m planning on getting drunk and watching soccer today but I’ll read through tomorrow. Anyone want to try to slant my views?

we wil let you read your slot and sort it out for us as leaf was being very strange this whole game.

This is the most sensible post you made-to-order all game

I mean this in a good way

Tbqh, Cyrus is off meta for me this game in a good way - less spammy and more sensical. I’m comfortable w a townread there.

Emps is way off meta in terms of participation. This is a newb slot that gets a lot of mafia theory and normally has reads I get, so am a bit sad. While he pointed to the vLa, that’s been up as long as I’ve known him and not impeded as much as here. Still inclined to give it a day pass but have suspicions.

Carl is my rational focused town core.

Arc/sleepy are two slots from which I’ve remembered nothing and feel comfortable saying a scum is in there. Just one, though, for the same reason as Carl. Nonetheless I think that’s my preferred spot for now.

Given my own alignment and consistent presence in the VCs I want to reabalyze those wagon formations.

[teacher]

VOTE: arc

[teacher]

And right now I’m waiting for teacher as the last time he replaced into an universal scum read slot, it ended his participation in the thread rather quickly.

Like I believe I am sortable by postcount and will be keeping that in mind the next time I roll scum, but that game was somewhat exceptional - (a) my kid was hospitalized, as I said in thread, (b) I was solo scum who had already been red checked by RAS’s cheating. So I would t take that game as great for meta.

[teacher]

@Emps, if you have the ability/availability, talk to me about Cyan. They werent in my readslist. I remember seeing a couple posts, but not having strong pings either way. Can you call out why they are town for you?

Same for the lean on Sleepless - I see only one game-relevant post, that is a short question. I dont see how that one line is good enough for a lean?

[teacher]

Also, I (your TL) am FL (your SR) slot. So you might want to update that.

[teacher]

Ack.....@Sky, feel free to delete your . and this.... Sorry, and happy 4th

[teacher]

nvm, I thought I stole your pagetop.

[teacher]

1. You have time.
2. Theres some bad mojo between multiple players who have left the room that you can likely glance over around page 15-18.
3. Im a claimed VT because FL was weird and I reaffirmed the claim before seeing FL had retracted it later.

[teacher]

and mind explaining the townread on Carl?

I assume youre talking to Emps not me.

[teacher]

I think we maybe played together around the time of newb 1895? The name was familiar to me but the playstyle isn’t. I’m enjoying the lyrics too.

[teacher]

I can check out my nifty newly updated wiki page to see which games we may have been in.

No overlap. Pleasure to meet you.

[teacher]

If you have scum reads you should pursue them, otherwise you’re just wasting precious time.

This game I’mma teach villagers how to be effective

Pressure, pressure, pressure

Break eggs make omelettes

Upon a quick ego dive, I dont think we have played together. You must look like a dude I know.

He has about 5 alts, most prominently hammy and scum reading (sorry if this has been said already, just leading through my eight pages of holiday ketchup.

[teacher]

Ive never had a newbie game reach page 30 in day 1, but it can be typical of other queues on the site.

[teacher]

Jefferson lives.
Arc does not.
Sleepy is empty.

[teacher]

It was my way of honoring the fourth. Google Jefferson lives

[teacher]

Kindly share a reaction to the actual game you are theoretically playing?

[teacher]

In the time it took me to read 4 pages, 8 more got added. Gonna try going backward now.

[teacher]

That lolhammer comes from town like 80+ percent of the time in my experience.

Also insomnia tunnels like this and has terrible reads as any alignment. I can’t come up with a strong scum motivation to push a claimed VT this hard early day two though.

[teacher]

I’m a pretty strong believer in one-on, one-off a town wagon D1. I have Carl as soul-town. I am pretty strongly that way on fish.

Personally, I’d lynch sleepless RN for total lack of, well, anything.

VOTE: sleep

[teacher]

This means we have a doctor or jailer yeah? Pretty difficult to imagine a no kill.

In my true newb game, scum did no kill. But yea, it’s more likely the kill was stopped, either by save or jailing the killer.

[teacher]

Why would I not push a claimed VT, like FL would risk claiming PR and getting into a CC battle in a newbie. Mafia are more likely to claim mafia anyway.

Take the time to read. I said I can’t come up with a SCUM motivation to push a claimed vt. Meaning I don’t think scum!you would gunnel me. It had nothing to do with my alignment, but rather go your actions are furthering my reads.

[teacher]

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Like no, that aspect is the biggest part of my read right now, and even shades all the other stuff, so that’s not an avenue I’m going down.

[teacher]

Please take a step away from the computer and breathe. That was uncalled for.

[teacher]

Fish I’m not sure how after my entry to the day you thought I’d be on your side.

Like sure I’d consider insomnia, but that’s actually fairly low for me.

My preferred order is sleep-cyrus-insomnia.

[teacher]

Fish I’m not sure how after my entry to the day you thought I’d be on your side.

Like sure I’d consider insomnia, but that’s actually fairly low for me.

My preferred order is sleep-cyrus-insomnia.

Insom and Icon seem to both be pushing similarly bad wagons. Insom is pushing You and icon is pushing emps.

How do you feel about emps so far?

Underwhelmed but attribute it to vLa. He is my on wagon choice after Cyrus. I’d rather lynch offwagon tho.

[teacher]

I really strongly disagree on the hammer.

Insomnia I could see but then why push me early D2. I can have some narrative but not much.

I want to have Sleepy actually interact. The slot got a day one pass but can’t skate to mylo with only one game relevant post.

After sorting that I’ll get back to you about insomnia.

[teacher]

Ok then, mount up on sleepy for a bit and see what develops?

[teacher]

10-4.

[teacher]

Seeking a replacement for Sleepless.

I don’t fully understand the new rule. Are we allowed to discuss this fact?

[teacher]

Seeking a replacement for Sleepless.

The timing of this is blergh.

Like I could see it from any alignment but I think scum more often?
Town would be excited after the no kill? Scum would be frustrated at the nk and pace of the game?

I don’t see why it wouldn’t have been requested earlier if town, other than maybe hoping to catch up over the weekend and not getting around to it, but I don’t find that very likely since then the rep should have come sooner than late Sunday night. On the other hand, scum that didn’t get what they wanted and is getting pressure might find it easier to exit than to continue to post nullifies and hang on to the slot.

[teacher]

I don't play, but if I did, I would be a total numbers nerd.

I do, and I am.

Damn six hours sleep = 12 pages. I love this game.

[teacher]

I just need lists from teacher and sleepless slot right now. Then ill work my magic and Encyclopedia Brown this shit.

I know you were stoned but I had given one like 4 hours ago, no?

[teacher]

I don't play, but if I did, I would be a total numbers nerd.

I do, and I am.

Damn six hours sleep = 12 pages. I love this game.

Just talk to me, you dont even need to read.

Not how I roll. What do you need? And I can give it while I read up.

[teacher]

I know you were stoned but I had given one like 4 hours ago, no?

Misread that.

I dont think you gave a full one.

You said some trs, and then gave a pool, but not like a down the line list.

That’s fair.

Me
Ico
Carl
Fish
Cyrus
Emps
Insomnia
Sleepless

[teacher]

Teacher, what do you think of insom and ff being pretty much the only outliers on the reads

i haven’t had time to do what I normally do w board reads yet. I don’t know what you mean by outliers.

[teacher]

Can you explain your icon tr, since you have him as top tr and I have him as lock scum?

I reread the iso over night and see the hammer as heavily town.

[teacher]

I know you were stoned but I had given one like 4 hours ago, no?

Misread that.

I dont think you gave a full one.

You said some trs, and then gave a pool, but not like a down the line list.

That’s fair.

Me
Ico
Carl
Fish
Cyrus
Emps
Insomnia
Sleepless

How is sleepless top scumread? Because not posting?

yes. I actually believe a lot of what we are seeing is TVt.

[teacher]

Fish I’m not sure how after my entry to the day you thought I’d be on your side.

Like sure I’d consider insomnia, but that’s actually fairly low for me.

My preferred order is sleep-cyrus-insomnia.

Whats with the bolded statement? Its like you took offense to thinking I was speaking for you.

And what did emp do to fall into your bottom 3, and why is cyrus out of it?

No, it was just unusual lack of situational comprehension for you.
And Cyrus and emps trades on-wagon places. I see the interaction w you last night as truly genuine not pocketing. I’m also getting more comfortable reading cyrussian.

[teacher]

Fish I’m not sure how after my entry to the day you thought I’d be on your side.

Like sure I’d consider insomnia, but that’s actually fairly low for me.

My preferred order is sleep-cyrus-insomnia.

Whats with the bolded statement? Its like you took offense to thinking I was speaking for you.

And what did emp do to fall into your bottom 3, and why is cyrus out of it?

No, it was just unusual lack of situational comprehension for you.

Can you explain that part to me, I dont comprehend its meaning.

You thought I’d be on your side.
I had been posting since day start that I liked Ico.
So your thought was wrong, and inconsistent with my statements.
It appeared like you were ignoring/overlooking my statements, which does not seem to be your style.
You later answered that in a way that satisfied me by saying you assumed I’d work with my town reads.
And indeed I might in a day or so.

[teacher]

starts to see something happening wonders how long before every one else thinks the same

drugs are bad, mkay

Thanks Mr. garrison.

[teacher]

has started strong in the beginning and then his bravado that he exposed during early days has faded away. His contribution tappered off with the progression of the game.

FWIW, in both respects his activity levels are consistent sitewide imo.

[teacher]

You thought I’d be on your side.
I had been posting since day start that I liked Ico.
So your thought was wrong, and inconsistent with my statements.
It appeared like you were ignoring/overlooking my statements, which does not seem to be your style.
You later answered that in a way that satisfied me by saying you assumed I’d work with my town reads.
And indeed I might in a day or so.

Ok, so that was just a miscue. I didnt think youd be tring him after he was pushing you.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

This post had me thinking you were sring him because in this analogy Icon just killed Lincoln.

nah mate it was more for the lulz. But after your townread answer we are good.

[teacher]

I’m going to flip my read on Ico now.

I thought the hammer could be a PR hiding. It’s how I’ve seen it a lot - a guaranteed way to avoid the nk since scum knows they’ll be under suspicion tomorrow.

I was trying not to give that reasoning, and also avoid a wagon building on Ico today, so I started to soft cop by moving him unreasonably up in my readslist and saying 10-4.

But apparently he’s just scum or selfish town that would rather lolhammer and risk pr than lose his own life as a vt.

intent after the replacement arrives.

[teacher]

so I started to soft cop

Wait, are you the cop?

there's no point in answering this

True, but no harm either.

No I am VT.
@emps- in the early days of radio, cops used “10-codes” to transmit long messages in shorthand. 10-4 is message received and understood.

[teacher]

so I started to soft cop

Wait, are you the cop?

there's no point in answering this

Umm... if they have a report and just outed themselves by pointing out their own soft then yeah they should speak up and clear who they can and hope we have a doc that can save them tonight to report again.

Yea but I said that while giving intent on a clear? Wouldn’t make much sense as a cop to do which is why I decided to drop the act. I was just trying to shield potential PR.

[teacher]

Yea but I said that while giving intent on a clear? Wouldn’t make much sense as a cop to do which is why I decided to drop the act. I was just trying to shield potential PR.

But white knighting a slot like you did threatened to give scum a foothold to crawl back out of.

Eh it would have steered to insomnia, I’d have been the nk, and then you would know my “clear” was bs. I liked the play, but sometimes suffer from being too fancy.

[teacher]

oh yeah updated readlist/positioning of Icon now teacher>?

Teach
Carl
FF
Cyrus
Emps
Insomnia
[sleepless]
Iconeum

[teacher]

cyrus62
Sleepless
Formerfish
Carl Tuckerson
emps
insomnia
Iconeum- claimed vt
teacher- claimed vt

Arcfield- ded vt

Anyone else claim?

are you really pushing for a d2 massclaim?

or am i misrepping

Misrepping. I think he just wants a central source for known facts, not to accumulate more.

That said, I tend to be in favor of trackers or Neaps claiming today. I haven’t pushed it because I prefer gameplay to mechanical solves but there is some benefit to those roles [AND ONLY THOSE] roles claiming that I can explain if desired.

[teacher]

cyrus62
Sleepless
Formerfish
Carl Tuckerson
emps
insomnia
Iconeum- claimed vt
teacher- claimed vt

Arcfield- ded vt

Anyone else claim?

are you really pushing for a d2 massclaim?

or am i misrepping

Misrepping. I think he just wants a central source for known facts, not to accumulate more.

That said, I tend to be in f avor of trackers or Neaps claiming today. I haven’t pushed it because I prefer gameplay to mechanical solves but there is some benefit to those roles [AND ONLY THOSE] roles claiming that I can explain if desired.

is it because there is a jk/doc who can protect them?

or another pure investigative who can operate while the claimed one is dying.

[teacher]

And it gets rid of the tracker fakeclaim strategy that Colin C scum like. But I don’t feel strongly and think further discussion should wait for all slots.

[teacher]

Only town me beasts out over 500 posts.

Honestly wish you didn’t make posts like this. They’re what give me the paranoia on your slot.

FWIW tomorrow is still mylo if we mislynch. Someone should at least point out that no lynch is almost always the optimal play at mylo unless there is a guilty, as town has better odds of hittin scum at lylo rather than mylo.

[teacher]

Neo should only claim if they have a clear on a contested by, like if sleep is neo and somehow made a night action checking icon, but it could mean icon is just the goon.

Neo is not (no longer?) a vanilla cop. They get “not vt” for goons and PRs alike. On the rest of it I’ll talk through the maths and mechanics of it tonight just for teaching purposes. I honestly don’t really care.

[teacher]

Reads list in graph form.

Massively helpful. This is what I do, on the same platform. Next time perhaps drop a post number in so I can pull a Reagan on your work (trust, but verify).

[teacher]

I’m finally caught up btw.

[teacher]

Sky can you confirm sleepless’s status when you vc. That pop in was weird.

[teacher]

As an addendum to this: once a replace-out request has been made public by the moderator, the player replacing out is to stop posting in the game. The player is not allowed to replace back into the game or rescind their request.

Relevant site rule. Sleepless is still being replaced.

I didn't realize Sleep requested to be replaced.

Had to have been that. The slot had only been prodded once.
Weird to pop in after request tho.

[teacher]

hmm actually UNVOTE: teacher
still waking up and I think I misread the post............

Out of curiosity, how did you read it?

[teacher]

FWIW, I do use whole board reads as all alignments and roles alot.

When I am totally lost on scumhunting, I actually do a reverse maths. Towns tell the truth, and scum tend to null their partners, sometimes scum them (bus), and less often town. So I segment readslists and add points as follows:

Town: +0
Townleans: +1
Nulls: +3
Scum: +2

I then add together each slots and average, and push the highest averages. I dont need that here, but sharing how I have done in the past.

[teacher]

because the writing is on the wall. We need sleepy's replacement to get in.

FF, if youre around, want to explain why you think Cyrus might have been saved? I cant imagine a world where scum targets him. They target Carl in most worlds, and you in the remainder.

Speaking of which, while we are waiting I promised a little bit of maths:

For the tracker claim strategy, I will refer you to a post made long ago in my history when the tracker claim was a more active part of the newb queue. I am glad that it is gone. But here that post is. Obviously the situation here is slightly different -- it is way more likely we are in B2 or C3 than B1 from the lack of nightkill. Even so, in C3, the claimed tracker gets protection and results. In B2, they likely dont get results, but we can solve around a known!town slot. Im more agnostic here depending on the trackers readslists position.

For the neap claim strategy, I will write the posts: neap only exists in A1 and B2. In A1, we get 2 conf!towns out of the claim (or even better, conf!scum), and the claim leaves the cop less likely to be RBed/killed. In B2, its even better, since we get the same 2 conf!towns and a guarantee of another result because the claimed neap will be protected by the doc. Given the lack of nightkill, if a neap exists at all, it is more likely we are in B2, so would lean towards a claim and public results.

One final maths point in general - it is statistically more likely for a JK to stop the killer than stop the kill in the abstract. But that abstract math matters less than does the JK's ACTUAL reasoning regarding their target.

[teacher]

For neap, sub B3 for B2 because typos, but the reasoning remains the same.

[teacher]

highlight just the part you want to quote on the main screen. Then click the quote button on top. That way you dont have to quote a wall.

[teacher]

Says the dude who writes 1000s of posts while on V/LA

[teacher]

What Carl is saying about me as scum would have hammered is what I've been saying yesterday. Why would I be giving up so much scum value fo the sake of... what?

Dude, I just reread your ISO. IF youre town, then you are f'ing selfish for lolhammering an unclaimed slot as VT simply to survive. Like you had to know it just made the target bigger for the next day. Could you kindly put down the bottle of whine for what is the right lynch absent a clear, and maybe help advance your wincon? Like youve thrown some shade at me, and at FF, and at Emps, but other than blandly saying manipulative/absent, I have no idea why you think that or what specific posts I should be reexamining if you flip. Do something other than whinge.

[teacher]

I want to sort sleepless and see no harm in letting this sit. Its not like he's slithering out of the rope.

[teacher]

I would agree if I felt the townblock chipping away due to paranoia -- the normal reason I try to end days early without this lag -- but right now I am seeing cohesivity that makes me think its either completely PoEd or completely not -- the flip will cause fairly drastic reevaluations or confirmations on my end, but I dont see much changing w/o the flip.

PEdit: Cool, tell me more about bandcamp. (trans: Anecdotal history is less important than this gamestate).

[teacher]

^ and that is how you get to mafia scum status
Maybe try unstones sleep and you’ll be less high.

[teacher]

Sleep w/o being stoned.

[teacher]

How's that for selfish town?

What's special about insom that wasnt special about Arc?

Townread vs scumlean

But the standard or advice is to scum it up a bit. That’s where the lolhammer runs into trouble.

[teacher]

Why the absolute desperate defense of insom? He is like #2-3 scum on almost everyone's list but yours.

When I flip and this town turns on insom tomorrow, my defense will be out there to be revisited maybe and will be of use.
I think that this town can straighten out but I don't think insomn is scum.

I disagree with the early song read but also don’t get why you’d think the one and only slot agreeing w you is also town. Like scum wants to keep town divided and a foot in both camps. So if you’re town, to me that should make you more suspicious of insomnia, not less.

[teacher]

You showed up and hammered without intent, a claim, or serious deadline pressure.

You’ve said you did it purely to avoid a lynch in yourself.

If you explained why that’s not selfish survivalism, I missed it. And I reread your iso. So please point me the right direction.

[teacher]

What Carl is saying about me as scum would have hammered is what I've been saying yesterday. Why would I be giving up so much scum value fo the sake of... what?

Dude, I just reread your ISO. IF youre town, then you are f'ing selfish for lolhammering an unclaimed slot as VT simply to survive. Like you had to know it just made the target bigger for the next day. Could you kindly put down the bottle of whine for what is the right lynch absent a clear, and maybe help advance your wincon? Like youve thrown some shade at me, and at FF, and at Emps, but other than blandly saying manipulative/absent, I have no idea why you think that or what specific posts I should be reexamining if you flip. Do something other than whinge.

Ico I appreciate you’re interacting more but could I get you to case your scumreads rather than defend insomnia?

[teacher]

What Carl is saying about me as scum would have hammered is what I've been saying yesterday. Why would I be giving up so much scum value fo the sake of... what?

Dude, I just reread your ISO. IF youre town, then you are f'ing selfish for lolhammering an unclaimed slot as VT simply to survive. Like you had to know it just made the target bigger for the next day. Could you kindly put down the bottle of whine for what is the right lynch absent a clear, and maybe help advance your wincon? Like youve thrown some shade at me, and at FF, and at Emps, but other than blandly saying manipulative/absent, I have no idea why you think that or what specific posts I should be reexamining if you flip. Do something other than whinge.

Ico I appreciate you’re interacting more but could I get you to case your scumreads rather than defend insomnia?

I've done this...

You just provided four specific posts on insomnias slot. For me, you’ve talked vaguely about FL’s play. For FF you’ve talked vaguely about being manipulative. For emps, you’ve talked vaguely about being absent.

For at least the former two, you should be able to provide posts and call shit out. And it wouldn’t hurt if you gave some sign of having tried to incorporate new information (me) or old (FF) into a coherent worldview.

[teacher]

Fair enough on emps, and thanks for the reminder. That honestly had slipped my mind. For some reason you seem to have been more focused on me/FF recently.

[teacher]

No need. Part of why I was raising it is I feel like you’ve. Illscummed my slot without actually confronting anything I’ve done in if.

[teacher]

*null-scummed.

[teacher]

Evolution. It’s a thing. (Sorry Sister Mary Francis)

pEdit: @ Ico

[teacher]

I didnt react to the Emps case becaus4e I take it semi-seriously, but find him less scummy than you. Its also why I keep asking you to dive FF. Not because it will change my views, but it will give me the benefit of town!your thoughts once they are in fact confirmed to be town, and thats the other slot youve voiced suspicion of.

@FF, with reference to "not posting in the PT," dont you think scum!Ico has had all the time in the world already so theres not much more to be added? I dont get why you are so eager for a lynch with a completely unsorted slot and tomorrow being mylo if its wrong.

PEdit: And that, again, is why why its selfish for town. You turned the possibility of rope D1 into the probability of rope D2 while potentially denying an opportunity to claim.

[teacher]

No, one save makes Lylo into mylo. It takes 2 ( mislynch + nk) to add a day

[teacher]

No, one save makes Lylo into mylo. It takes 2 ( mislynch + nk) to add a day

can you spell that out i dont do text speak

Lylo - lynch (scum) or lose - there is one more town than scum, so town must lynch.
Mylo - mislynch and lose - there are two more towns than scum, so town can no lynch.

[teacher]

teach i know i cant talk about on going games but if i have a complant about a mod who do i go to

If a newb, penguin power. In general, PM the person who wrote the fiat post in the signup queue.

[teacher]

[flavor here]

Im beginning to think nothing positive happened in 1942.

[teacher]

Out of curiosity, am I the only one lagging this up or do others feel the same way I do about sleepless. I will defer to a unanimous majority of the Ico wagon because Ive gummed the game up long enough if this is a solo stand. But it is my preference.

[teacher]

There is no benefit to anyone other than insomnia/neap/tracker claiming. None.

[teacher]

whats the highest posting newbiegame?

ask teacher he mods

Haven’t kept track of it. In my time here this is the highest I’m aware of. (Since 1865 - my knowledge isn’t comprehensive but it’s pretty good, I’ve clicked into most games for data diving purposes)

[teacher]

to those not currently voting Ico

why?

who would you vote?

Is it because you would prefer an Insom lynch > Ico?

Are you scared of a self-hammer from Ico?

Sorting a vacant slot before potential mylo.

I’m voting Ico. I’m probably not voting insomnia. Why you ask? Well, I think Ico is scummy enough for rope and if I’m wrong I don’t want there to be three fully claimed slots in a six person town for an off-brand scumteam tonight.

Not really scared of the selfhammer. Am scared of others passing impatience/drunkenness/stonedness.

[teacher]

Five person town, but two claimed slots. Same thought.

[teacher]

The game is stalling when we should just be lynching Icon. We are 4 days away from deadline and still no replacement for sleepless. Even if we get one they are going to have to read 2400 posts and come up with reads on everyone only to come to the same conclusion most of us have on icon, or we run into deadline issues and lynch icon anyways.

We could lynch him here instead and give the replacement nighttime to read.

We still have a PR out there looking over one of us.

If its the jk then they can pick a scummy target and hope to stop the kill and we win on day 3 with a guilty after lynching correctly today.

I so incredibly do not like this post.

[teacher]

False CC.

[teacher]

And welcome.

Short version: Ico D1 lolhammered as Vt. No nk. Neap should claim mechanically. Everything else you’re on your own.

[teacher]

False CC.

Now whyd you go and say that?

Because that and the prior post I quoted have scum motivation. I’m getting th paranoia thing again. But Ico is the lynxh almost without question unless it can be cleared.

[teacher]

Read or don't read?

Please say don't read

I’d say read, sadly. We really need to sort your slot which has been empty all game.

For your benefit, FF made a google sheets version of what presumptively remains the boards current readslist. Can someone help her out by brining the link forward? I’m on mobile for a bit.

[teacher]

Welcome to cyrussian. The translators broken.

I get involved when I get worried about outing PRs.

[teacher]

Alright. Ico is the lynch.

I’d personally prefer clarity get a chance to skim and dive and get a readslist out today. But I’m not going to be a stick in the mud if you all disagree.

[teacher]

Sorry for intruding, but why didn't the Mafia made a kill during the night? I'm starting to fear I don't understand the game

It’s not?

[teacher]

prodge

Does this even count?

[teacher]

There's NOBODY here arguing about me NOT being the lynch today, why do you keep running the same song over and over and over? Are you that worried?


also, rawr!

Worried no. I just don't get why we are waiting unless it's for CC who hasn't said one way or another if she wants time to read now and will be good to go in 4 day's or if she'd like to do it over the night phase.

You are dying today, no way around that my friend. I already have your coffin picked out. I got a refrigerator s box. It'll be perfect for you.

False. By this point she had said it twice.

[teacher]

Thinking it does

The later stuff certainly does. Can you give a board reads list?

[teacher]

truth be told i feel better about a insom flip then icon if insom flips town it basicky clears icon if icon flips town then insom could have been baiting us to lynch him

Again, no. We aren’t going into a 5 person night w 2 claimed slots.

[teacher]

to those not currently voting Ico

why?

who would you vote?

Is it because you would prefer an Insom lynch > Ico?

Are you scared of a self-hammer from Ico?

Sorting a vacant slot before potential mylo.

I’m voting Ico. I’m probably not voting insomnia. Why you ask? Well, I think Ico is scummy enough for rope and if I’m wrong I don’t want there to be three fully claimed slots in a six person town for an off-brand scumteam tonight.

Not really scared of the selfhammer. Am scared of others passing impatience/drunkenness/stonedness.

Yes I did.

[teacher]

Assume by claims. Leaves less miskill area

[teacher]

UNVOTE:

[teacher]

Only one place - Ico. If need be insomnia before deadline.

[teacher]

Not going to vote til CC gives the go sign.

[teacher]

Ico’s recent posts have read towny but that doesn’t make up for the lolhammer and other issues.

PEdit: I get it and am fine w it (May even agree) but my concern is leaving insomnia for lylo/mylo is less optimal if it’s wrong. I’d rather resort insomnia than Ico, and think that’s more beneficial overall. Like you have been saying forever, Ico is the walking dead and shouldn’t slither off just because we were waiting for a replacement. Plus there’s the risk of outing the protective/semip

[teacher]

my concern is leaving insomnia for lylo/mylo is less optimal if it’s wrong

Leaving Ico.

[teacher]

but this town is incapable of moving ahead without my head on a plate so it has to happen. I knew this would be likely the moment I hammered on D1

Talk to me about this post a little bit, Iconeum.
If you knew it was likely that you were signing your death warrant on day 2 by hammering on day 1... why did you hammer day 1 in the name of self-preservation?

Did Ico ever answer this? I liked the question and didn’t see it in Icos iso but this game is quite a big haystack - open question to anyone.

[teacher]

I think they are about equally likely, hence why they are my bottom two reads. So I think thinking through the consequences makes sense.

Tell me, what is the scum motivation for sticking out and refusing to answer questions now? It’s not like whatever he said was likely to derail the constant pressure for the Ico lynch. Icos play means that town!him would cause a loss at endgame. Insomnias play, if town, is not as fatal.

Where do you think this process goes off the rails. Like I know you don’t share the first assumption, but grant me that and then you should come out in appr the same place.

[teacher]

Also the 1.6/6 chance of revealing a PR in running up a new slot who may be trying to deliberately look scummy.

[teacher]

I was saying insomnia. It had stuck you to me (I think I even commented on it to, but unsure). I do think he borders on the ego!personality generally.

FWIW, one thing that is very different from the only other time I’ve played w insomnia (as town) is that they were all over the place adapting and pressuring w their reads. Here they are v locked in. And locked in in a way that is weird. Iirc, when I repped in he said he could read how I replace into a slot. But his read on my slot hasn’t changed at all. So.....

All this by way of saying I don’t think you’re barking up the wrong tree, but I also remain firmly favoring Icos wagon for today.

[teacher]

VOTE: Insom

I don't think scum would blatantly tie themselves together like this. Insomnia/Ico is either T/T or T/S here

My tinfoil hat theory is that insom got caught up in this as town and that scum is Icon who is now trying to tie himself to insom to set him up.

There's NOBODY here arguing about me NOT being the lynch today, why do you keep running the same song over and over and over? Are you that worried?


also, rawr!

Worried no. I just don't get why we are waiting unless it's for CC who hasn't said one way or another if she wants time to read now and will be good to go in 4 day's or if she'd like to do it over the night phase.

You are dying today, no way around that my friend. I already have your coffin picked out. I got a refrigerator s box. It'll be perfect for you.

So weird. And typically we say L-1.

[teacher]

hmmmm now this is funny teacher was the 1st to vote insom but when we do he doesnt want to odd indeed

It’s like you don’t even fucking read the game. I was softing cop on Ico because I thought he was a power role. I couldn’t very well be on Ico at the time.

Yes I think insomnia is scummy. About as scummy as Ico

So let’s play both out.

Ico is claimed vt. Insomnia is unclaimed. What benefit is there to running the new slot up

unless you believe Ico is town?

. None.

The issue is nobody here has made that assumption. Like everyone in here has expressed a desire to kill him but insomnia. Ico is a lock lynch because of the lolhammer.

Thus scum wants that player (if town) to be alive at mylo/lylo. There are scum reasons to change target today.

I seriously cannot come up with town other than truly doubting the Ico lynch. And nobody has done that.

[teacher]

Put another way: if someone can lay out a convincing world where Ico isn’t the next lynxh REGARDLESS insomnia’s flip, I might be more open. But right now I think leaving that slot alive is too big a risk.

[teacher]

Is there 4 votes on insom? I thought I was the 3rd

FSU’s, I misremembered the # of living here.

[teacher]

but this town is incapable of moving ahead without my head on a plate so it has to happen. I knew this would be likely the moment I hammered on D1

Talk to me about this post a little bit, Iconeum.
If you knew it was likely that you were signing your death warrant on day 2 by hammering on day 1... why did you hammer day 1 in the name of self-preservation?

Did Ico ever answer this? I liked the question and didn’t see it in Icos iso but this game is quite a big haystack - open question to anyone.

Putting this near the front for Ico.

[teacher]

And right now I’m waiting for teacher as the last time he replaced into an universal scum read slot, it ended his participation in the thread rather quickly.

YOure scum on me still. The last time you gave reasons was 1344. Alots gone down since, but you haven’t really posted on this read, just emps.

[teacher]

The mech talk has been off but I’m taking a certification test this morning. I’ll walk through it this afternoon.

Short ccersion is that emps claim is absolutely true. Insomnias is not, and his argument for it being true isn’t nec the case - scum knowing column C can decide to take the 66% chance of only one PR to claim doc or track.

That said, the target makes sense, and the overall impetus of the day (FFs impatient pushing on Ico, rushing to not let CC catchup today, and switch to Ico) makes a lot more sense with these revelations. I buy most of it but want to reread the game w the claims in mind. My vote is in spirit on FF.

[teacher]

Teacher, I never fake claim in that situation. I hate playing scum and would've rather waited to get placed at L-1 and me self-hammering. I always do that. Just stop.

I’m talking pure mechs, not personalities. JK is never a fakeclaim for reasons I can walk through. Doc can be. I don’t think it is here (like I said) but mech can be.

[teacher]

Teacher, I never fake claim in that situation. I hate playing scum and would've rather waited to get placed at L-1 and me self-hammering. I always do that. Just stop.

I’m talking pure mechs, not personalities. JK is never a fakeclaim for reasons I can walk through. Doc can be. I don’t think it is here (like I said) but mech can be.

Why is JK,never a fakeclaim?

it is countered in 8/9 setups (JK, Cop, Neap). Only in the tracker/doc setup is it not countered. And with a claimed doc, the tracker would CC the JK. So you would be countered 9/9

[teacher]

There is a nearly perfect mech solution to this that Carl may just have spoiled, unless it’s his blind faith in Cyrus being town.

I just got out of my test but will talk through it. Basically FF eats rope, then insomnia if FF flips town. Because Scum!iso only doc claims if he is partnered w ICO. Otherwise a vt claim likely flips the lynch back to Ico as Cyrus said.

[teacher]

Ill be online tonight, but Carl - I mean this dearly - case me? Like Scum me doesnt stand outside the Ico lynch AND urge you not to run up Insomnia if both are town. Like, no. Maybe I resist Ico. Maybe I resist Insomnia. But not both. These events are why the long day is better for town.

Insomnia claiming doctor only makes sense if he is partnered with Ico. Otherwise, its too much of a risky fake claim (even in column CC, there is a 33% of a counterclaim, so there it is better to do the standard wait til L-1 thing, and a VT claim likely gets the lynch back to Ico given Cyrus's comments in any event).

So my solution is to lynch FF today and lynch Insomnia tomorrow/D4 if that flips town.

For me, after FF flips scum, the lynch order is Cyrus-CC. I will note Clarity pushed against the FF flashwagon, and is going along now that it appears inevitable. You are town beyond reproach, and I agree on the rest.

Thats the two second version before I get my kids from camp. But I look forward to discussing more tonight and reacting to the quick haze of today.

[teacher]

(And I dont fight in game. Like I said a while back, Ive only ever lost my cool once).

[teacher]

Tbqh, Cyrus is off meta for me this game in a good way - less spammy and more sensical.

Maybe this is his scumtell. Though the span came back later.

[teacher]

Wait til CC catches up and posts. There still isn’t a rush and it would be better to get her contributions one way or the other.

[teacher]

ummmmm, cuz you were the deep wolf in the town-block?

Because 24 hrs ago you had the game locked with an Ico/insomnia lynch pattern?

Don’t even try like it’s god mode. You played well.

[teacher]

I will do the casing.

[teacher]

To hide the fact that he is a PR. To put sound mechanical theory out there. Because he is calling for the cop to out if there is one, and disguising that by not stressing as much over the less useful investigative.

Im casing. You dont like it, too bad. Cyrus, you dont trust it, fair enough. But all I got is my voice and my vote, and Im using the voice.

[teacher]

FF, while Im casing, can you show me where you softed tracker D1?

[teacher]

FWIW I do think it's hard to reconcile scum having 900 posts...)

Funnily enough I had the first paragraph written. This one is going to be a long one for me to type up. Havent done one of these big ole case thingies since 1895.
First of all, let’s talk about those 833 posts. For this, I will quote myself, albeit from a different game.

Spoiler: much

e have 400+ posts, how can you not have a single read

[teacher]

Ack.....

e have 400+ posts, how can you not have a single read

Possibly because 50% of them are from one slot. I know this is personality/playstyle for you but it results in the game being more difficult to read for most towns, so it is play that helps scum. I say that as an objective fact, not because I believe it is motivated for you (I think you would play this way as any alignment). You should consider that for future games generally.

[teacher]

People thought cop was claimed.

Cop/neo
Cop/doc
Cop/tracker

Those are all the set ups a cop could be with another pr. Why does he only say something about the tracker? I think its because he was trying to see if a tracker was in the game, because Insom knows that they are in C3 because of the two goons, and making sure there isnt a tracker means that there isnt a doc and that that is a safe fake claim.

Not a mistake. I want this to be posted twice so that people see it.

But he didnt only say something about the tracker. The sentence right above it speaks to the cop and tells the cop to out if it was on any of the logical targets.

[teacher]

Well,

if cop has a check on any of me or Iconeum, they should come out and claim it.

We have 3 confirms based only off that.

If this is a tracker setup, then they probably shouldn’t come out unless they have a visit result.

If the team was me - Iconeum, we would’ve killed cyrus, hope everyone realizes that.

I still don’t think Ico’s hammer was scum motivated. If no PR comes out with relevant information that clears us, then I get that you guys will probably lynch in between the two of us and you’ll have this massive thunder dome that only ends up being a huge waste of information for town.

I’ll start getting em jabs from cyrus and formerfish if they didn’t reconsider anything. This game has been just me defending myself on a stupid accusation and iconeum’s derp hammer ties me to formerfish’s belief that Iconeum is scum with me. None of us are scum.

Nice try at a misrep tho.

[teacher]

Aw man why'd this game have to get even harder.

I didn't realize until now that there are some setups with only one PR... and that mafia would know if that were the case.......

If we are in column c then mafia has 2 goons and they know there is a chance of 4 prs. Cop solo, jk solo, tracker/doc.

Doc is the best thing to claim for scum here because it draws a cc, or gets cleared by the jk or cop thinking we aren't in c.

It gives scum a way to fake doc with the smallest chance they get cc'ed. And if they do they just outed the doc and know only a tracker is left out there.

There is no solo-cop from Scum POV. Their NK failed.

Anyways going on plane rn bye guys

This is an excellent point. From scum!Insomnia's PoV, his claim had a 50% chance of being CC'ed. Nope. Your caught, FF.

[teacher]

FF, where did you soft tracker D1?

[teacher]

Yeah, that’s what I believe.

Carl, let me talk to you about your read on teacher / FL. Do you scum read him? If not, then why do you town read him?

Also, do you believe in the Ico - me world? Think my partner would hammer like that, especially when the attention was on me?

Crumbing the save IMO.

[teacher]

So you softed Track, and Cyrus claimed cop.....interesting. (thanks for clearing that up btw).

[teacher]

snip

This is so much flail it is insane. In 3267, you complain "Why does he

only

say something about the tracker?"

I point out that he does not do that, and in fact encourages the cop to out so that the cop can be protected, in 3270

So you change your point in 3270 to ask "why not saying anything about the doc or neo". The answer is fucking obvious. Of course the doc shouldnt be talked to or encouraged to out -- the only roles under discussion were the investigatives.

Finally, you are overlooking what 1338 says. It doesnt say come out come out wherever you are tracker. In fact, it says STAY HIDDEN unless you have a visit result.

Yea, Im confbiased because I've had pings from you all day. But this is reachy.

[teacher]

If there is a jk and a doc on the town side there is a role blocker on the scum side. Icons plan doesnt even mention a role blocker, because he forgot about the lie when he made that post and wouldnt mention something that doesnt exist in this game, like a role blocker.

Or that ico isnt that great at thinking through mechs on the fly, which is why he was pointing towards me.

FF, serious question, your whole postulate assumes an Iso-Ico team right? So why isnt the solve to lynch you, then insomnia (who is the only player I am ever voting if you flip town), then Ico and win? Like...........?

[teacher]

snip.

Let's be clear, when you say the cop had been outed, there were 2.5 claims, not 1. Cyrus claimed, Ico countered, and you threw in "I killed Caesar". Which one should he have protected.

Regarding the save, Carl would have been my choice last night. All the cop stuff appeared like so much WIFOM EoD1 - I didnt fully buy any of them (and the Caesar quote made it seem like you didnt either).

[teacher]

If there is a jk and a doc on the town side there is a role blocker on the scum side. Icons plan doesnt even mention a role blocker, because he forgot about the lie when he made that post and wouldnt mention something that doesnt exist in this game, like a role blocker.

Or that ico isnt that great at thinking through mechs on the fly, which is why he was pointing towards me.

FF, serious question, your whole postulate assumes an Iso-Ico team right? So why isnt the solve to lynch you, then insomnia (who is the only player I am ever voting if you flip town), then Ico and win? Like...........?

If i flip town are you going to take up my flag and fight Icon and Insom to the death?

I was self voting for that reason, whole thing where i mentioned monks self emulating.

Ummmm, yea. Like Insomnia's claim only makes sense if Ico is his partner. So you flip town and the lynch order is back to todays. Thats part of why I dont get the obstinancy -- that was my mech solve which I talked about like 100s of posts ago. Im less confident on your partner, so want to flip you while we have a mislynch to spare.

[teacher]

If there is a jk and a doc on the town side there is a role blocker on the scum side. Icons plan doesnt even mention a role blocker, because he forgot about the lie when he made that post and wouldnt mention something that doesnt exist in this game, like a role blocker.

Or that ico isnt that great at thinking through mechs on the fly, which is why he was pointing towards me.

FF, serious question, your whole postulate assumes an Iso-Ico team right? So why isnt the solve to lynch you, then insomnia (who is the only player I am ever voting if you flip town), then Ico and win? Like...........?

If i flip town are you going to take up my flag and fight Icon and Insom to the death?

I was self voting for that reason, whole thing where i mentioned monks self emulating.

Ummmm, yea. Like Insomnia's claim only makes sense if Ico is his partner. So you flip town and the lynch order is back to todays. Thats part of why I dont get the obstinancy -- that was my mech solve which I talked about like 100s of posts ago. Im less confident on your partner, so want to flip you while we have a mislynch to spare.

So basically you are saying you believe me 100% as long as i flip town?

If you are so sure in that case why not lynch insom and if he is town you can lynch me tomorrow no questions asked. I will vote myself in my first post tomrrow and never take it off.

Hmmmmm - unsure between a claimed VT and a claimed Doctor. 100% sure if the claimed VT flips town. Still only 66% sure when the claimed doctor flips town. What to do?

[teacher]

Yo, Teach:



You take off to the scum pt to figure out how to hang me still?

Emps- Mighty Mighty Bosstones- Where did you go.

My wife came home. Going to be a bit.

[teacher]

I just did my dive to make my case. While I still dont like how FF has played today, Im coming down on the lynching insomnia side.

When CC gives the go sign, I will join that wagon.

[teacher]

The part that is most troubling to me is FF's repeated misreps and rush to rope yesterday (pushing to lynch Ico before CC/Sleepless slot had been sorted at all).

For misreps, see: Insomnia claimed doc AFTER the JK. Nope, he didnt.
Insomnia did NOT talk to the cop. Nope he did.

That said, I'd like to believe my read on the Cyan slot was solid.

[teacher]

Finally, I personally would prefer to lynch Ico if my read is wrong, but I get that people think I might be paired with insomnia given my pushes against his wagon, so Im not going to fight that one too hard.

[teacher]

Spoiler:

like he already knows he will see day 3 too

being conferdent is one thing but he cleary stated he will see day 3 like 100% sure he will

doc cant self heal so how dose he know he will make it to day 3

well insom knows they will see day 3 he said it him self

m said see you day 3 .

again so sure he will see day 3 . how dose he know he wont be nk

i just want to know how insom was able to say with out blinking glgl see you day 3

Cyrus, we all can understand English. You only need to say things once.

[teacher]

I go where I think I'm most likely going to hit scum.

Which you've already extensively covered is a team of insomnia/myself

And you are willing to risk a doc, instead of going for a safer lynch in what you consider caught scum, me

The fact that you're trying to get me off him tell me he's probably the scum pr. And you don't want me to kill the scum or do you?

NEVER MIND. This is another scumslip.

FF has been casing Ico for all the time for forgetting roleblocker, so he should be up on the setups.

BUT IF THERE IS NO DOC, THERE IS NO SCUM PR.

[teacher]

Im taking a teacher qualification test again today (want to change schools, so need to get certified for public schools), but Im going to put in what I had started on FF, then quick quote the scummy play of today without comment in my next post.

Former Fish Case

Going to do this basically chronologically, other than starting with the obvious high postcount. FF says this is a reason to townread, I say its NAI.

Spoiler: spam NAI

I talked about this in 3269. Carl made the quite correct observation that it was uncommon in 3276. But we don’t have to talk in the abstract here; we know we are dealing with Fish. Fish can post this way as any alignment – so the post count is not town indicative, despite his effort to use it as such. For examples of fish mass-posting and having a high count as scum, see here (71 posts during 300 game posts as D1 replace, lynched D2). NAI, so distrust claim to contrary. Not part of my case, just discounting this as a reason to townread.

So, back to chronology, lets do some slot history. Not too much here, but I do think there is something worth considering bearing on Insomnia.

Spoiler: Cyan

I had a townlean on Cyan’s play, but looking back over it, it doesn’t take many positions. It asks questions, and pushes for a lynch too early IMO.

Why do we need 3 votes on 3 separate wagons? What would that do, other than drag this game on?

After that, it just shades Cyrus and me, telling both slots to play better, and then critiquing the Dong v. Cyrus argument (434).

in retrospect, that argument looks good for a doc, because Dong definitely did come off scummier, which is what PR but not scum would want.

FF’s arrival, which I see as a charisma attempt.

Spoiler: intro

Sets a tone with 708 (Fuck you), 711 rapping, and 731. Basically laying claim to be the fun mayor. People find the jokes appealing. Then makes friendly overtures to all slots he knows or might know – 738 – feels a bit like charisma/pocketing, but not strong at all. Gets stronger towards Cyrus in particular over the course of 775, 780 I STOPPED HERE

I STOPPED HERE because I was getting mixed vibes from the early play, and didn’t get why Doc!Insomnia would put FF higher than Carl in his D2 readslist.

[teacher]

The quick and dirty quotes of FF’s D2 posts where I find scum motivation. Im not giving reasons and am offline for the next 12.
My preferred lynch is FF. If he’s town, then Insomnia. That said, I will hammer Insomnia if that’s needed around deadline.

where the doc/jk is or outguess where they are going to protect/hold.

SLIP?

Spoiler: other quick and dirty quotes

I save you the time and say that for me unless you claim a PR and have a result we can use, I dont want a case from you.

VOTE: insomnia becuse i think hes scum the way him and icone are pairing up and the way he saids we over and over

Cy.

Stick with me on this one. We do Icon first.

Come on.

1769, 1771, 1773 – cheerleading hammer

Trying to spread as much confusion as possible before I die

Legit scum claim here.

HAMMER AWAY!!!!!

Go ahead and hammer.

Only town me beasts out over 500 posts.

That said, I tend to be in favor of trackers or Neaps claiming today. I haven’t pushed it because I prefer gameplay to mechanical solves but there is some benefit to those roles [AND ONLY THOSE] roles claiming that I can explain if desired.

Tracker should only claim if they have a result of someone going to the kill. And even that is tricky, cause it might be the jk.

Neo should only claim if they have a clear on a contested by, like if sleep is neo and somehow made a night action checking icon, but it could mean icon is just the goon.

Sorry guys, I can only login once/twice a day, and by then hundreds of messages keep piling up. I see that Teacher votes me as a suspect cause I'm not posting enough. Finally some drama in my life!

Stop are you a PR?

Or is your role not special?

Oh shit.

Was it? Because if he were mafia and giving up, I'm positive he would have hammered.

The comment about spreading the mist.

It makes me think Im wrong on one and its not icon.

Icon is todays lynch barring the replacement coming in with a result.

We could just lynch him like I want to do.

Like one game I was legit outed scum. Town left me alive for 2 days. Let me hammer a mislynch on the 1st day.

Bad things happen when you let known scum live longer than they should.

The spoiler is incomplete because I have to leave now. But I'll through this one in and be online in 12 hours.

For misreps, see: Insomnia claimed doc AFTER the JK. Nope, he didnt.
Insomnia did NOT talk to the cop. Nope he did.

[teacher]

I go where I think I'm most likely going to hit scum.

Which you've already extensively covered is a team of insomnia/myself

And you are willing to risk a doc, instead of going for a safer lynch in what you consider caught scum, me

The fact that you're trying to get me off him tell me

he's probably the scum pr

. And you don't want me to kill the scum or do you?

NEVER MIND. This is another scumslip.

FF has been casing Ico for all the time for forgetting roleblocker, so he should be up on the setups.

BUT IF THERE IS NO DOC, THERE IS

NO SCUM PR

.

[teacher]

I'll put my full case up tonight around midnight my time - 13 hours. HAve good work.

[teacher]

Quick question before I hit the road -
Insomnia, why was FF highest on your D2 readslist? Like, with no nk, shouldnt Carl have been?
It was that that gave me the pause about your claim. I still think FF is the lynch that makes sense, then you if hes town, but can you explain that?

[teacher]

If you knew I wasn't though, just like deadset on you two, why sacrifice yourself for him?

Why not hammer yourself before if you're just going to fall on his knife regardless?

It's because

he's worth more alive to scum

than dead.

Another Scum has PR slip.

[teacher]

Emps used his jk correctly like a protect and saved me from a night kill.

A night kill I predicted and no one has fought me on in the slightest.

Misrep. Like I said thousands of posts ago, Carl would have been the NK in most worlds. I fought you on that.

PEdit: Like I said, you flip town and I autolynch insomnia.

[teacher]

Emps used his jk correctly like a protect and saved me from a night kill.

A night kill I predicted and

no one has fought me on in the slightest

.

Misrep.

Like I said thousands of posts ago, Carl would have been the NK in most worlds. I fought you on that.

PEdit: Like I said, you flip town and I autolynch insomnia.

That is not a misrepresentation of anything yiuve said, which is what a misrep is.

What is the misrep in plain English please?

Like bold it and explain how it's a misrep.

[teacher]

No, Im pretty honestly conflicted on you v. Insom. Its just that it makes sense situationally to lynch you first, because I cant pair insom with anyone other than Ico. You I can, so lynch you while we have mislynches to spare.

You keep pointing to you being a universal TR. But Carl was more UT than you. Sure you softed PR (thanks for pointing that out). That can be pro-town play to attract the NK, but can also be scum setting up crumbs on what is the best fakeclaim in the game. Especially with you interjecting into the two fake copclaim fiasco, I as doc would have protected Carl.

[teacher]

Emps used his jk correctly like a protect and saved me from a night kill.

A night kill I predicted and

no one has fought me on in the slightest

.

Misrep.

Like I said thousands of posts ago, Carl would have been the NK in most worlds. I fought you on that.

PEdit: Like I said, you flip town and I autolynch insomnia.

That is not a misrepresentation of anything yiuve said, which is what a misrep is.

What is the misrep in plain English please?

Like bold it and explain how it's a misrep.

So the misrep is that no one fought me on that?

Um, yes, because its wrong.

This type of nit picky shit is what is amking me think your partners with insom. Y

ea, I know you need to say that now to push insomnia's lynch. Its actually part of my case.

Like seriously, this is the weakest argument against me.

What happened to the rest of your case in me? You expressed mixed feelings after reading my iso and then gave up.

I didnt reread your ISO. I didnt have time to sift through 1000 posts (which is why thats not protown). I only have a couple hours a day for mafia and needed to prep for a test. Your D1 was pretty towny, the townreads were justified. I hadnt gotten to D2. And Ive promised a case by appr. midnight.

Didn't stop you from voting though so nice to know you don't need a full or even half full picture to make up your mind.

COMPLETELY FALSE MISREP. Im not voting.

Teach me your ways Jedi master.

[teacher]

Didn't stop you from voting though so nice to know you don't need a full or even half full picture to make up your mind.

Since the last post was formatting hell, I just want to make sure this clear misrep is out there. Im not voting.

[teacher]

Also, TBC, FF, I dont think scum!you does the kill. I dont think emps stopped the kill (unless it was on town!you). I think Scum!you kills carl, because that's the townread you will never have a good reason to back off.

[teacher]

(has your partner kill Carl, to be clear).

[teacher]

Wait... sorry I’m on mobile and only reading as posts come in.
If you don’t think FF did the kill then doesn’t emps’s result +no kill clear FF?

Not if I believe insomnia is the doctor and FF has his partner kill you.

[teacher]

No, Im pretty honestly conflicted on you v. Insom. Its just that it makes sense situationally to lynch you first, because I cant pair insom with anyone other than Ico. You I can, so lynch you while we have mislynches to spare.

You keep pointing to you being a universal TR. But Carl was more UT than you. Sure you softed PR (thanks for pointing that out). That can be pro-town play to attract the NK, but can also be scum setting up crumbs on what is the best fakeclaim in the game. Especially with you interjecting into the two fake copclaim fiasco, I as doc would have protected Carl.

We have a mislynch to spare. When I flip town you guys go into tomorrow at 4-2 after Emps diesntonight.

Tomorrow is mylo

And you flip town insomnia dies. Then I have to persuade town I wasnt standing in front of his lynch, but playing optimal strategy (which will be helped by Ico also pointing out it was optimal strategy).

[teacher]

You keep pointing to you being a universal TR. But Carl was more UT than you. Sure you softed PR (thanks for pointing that out). That can be pro-town play to attract the NK, but can also be scum setting up crumbs on what is the best fakeclaim in the game. Especially with you interjecting into the two fake copclaim fiasco, I as doc would have protected Carl.

I was in the top 3 for town for Emps, Carl, teacher, cy and insom.

That's 5 people who have me in their top town reads.

I know I'm town so there is 6 people who think I'm town this game.

In a game where there are 2 scum, 1 person was scum reading me and 1 was absent and unaccounted for.

Look at your own spreadsheet. Carl is higher than you counting all slots, and excluding outliers. Carl was more UT than you, pure and simple.

[teacher]

No, Im pretty honestly conflicted on you v. Insom. Its just that it makes sense situationally to lynch you first, because I cant pair insom with anyone other than Ico. You I can, so lynch you while we have mislynches to spare.

You keep pointing to you being a universal TR. But Carl was more UT than you. Sure you softed PR (thanks for pointing that out). That can be pro-town play to attract the NK, but can also be scum setting up crumbs on what is the best fakeclaim in the game. Especially with you interjecting into the two fake copclaim fiasco, I as doc would have protected Carl.

We have a mislynch to spare. When I flip town you guys go into tomorrow at 4-2 after Emps diesntonight.

Tomorrow is mylo

And you flip town insomnia dies. Then I have to persuade town I wasnt standing in front of his lynch, but playing optimal strategy (which will be helped by Ico also pointing out it was optimal strategy).

My flipping town doesn't mean that insom is scum. He could just be a shitty player.

So you arent sure Insomnia is scum, but you want to lynch claimed doc???? Buh.....what?

[teacher]

FF locks Ico as scum, even after the claim

Spoiler: samples

I think you are both scum.

If you knew I wasn't though, just like deadset on you two, why sacrifice yourself for him?

yada yada more evidence youre going to disregard about insom and yourself. Nothing that would interest you in the least.

I think its just insom and icon. Too many things mingle with them, and their play looks like it is in tandem

But then retreats, with two different and illogical justifications, because ico points out that lynching the claimed PR of a only 2 scum team is anti-town.

Spoiler: samples

If you are town

Assuming Town!Ico

e insom flipping scum means you're scum where you flipping scum doesn't mean insom is.

Assuming Scum!Ico

One of those justifications is that Insomnia locks Ico as scum (3518 in the spoiler is just one example of several), but then when I sound in on their side of the debate, it looks like that justification is gone

Spoiler: samples

This type of nit picky shit is what is amking me think your partners with insom.

.

This is all so flaily. And the misrep in his case on insomnia (didnt speak to cop, but he did), the multiple to me, and the RACE to end D2 before CC/Sleepless could replace in. Seriously, why on goods green earth does town benefit with an unsorted/unplayed slot?

[teacher]

Compare this (Iso definitely scum, with either me or Ico)

I think its just insom and icon. Too many things mingle with them, and their play looks like it is in tandem.

If im wrong then i think it would be about icon and teacher is scum.

With this, not 100 posts later: (Iso!scum means Ico!scum)

insom flipping scum means you're scum where you flipping scum doesn't mean insom is.

Like FF's thought process is all over the board to get Insomnia lynched.

[teacher]

That's why you never mentioned a role blocker in your plan for actions tonight.

Yes because this is the only possible explanation, right? Your view is so uptight I can't believe it's town

Ok so why did you never mention the role blocker in your night action plans?

Why make plans and advertise them to a scum team with a role blocker? RB goes on the doc and you kill the jk.

Nothing town can do to stop it. So why make plans that are worthless?

I go where I think I'm most likely going to hit scum.

Which you've already extensively covered is a team of insomnia/myself

And you are willing to risk a doc, instead of going for a safer lynch in what you consider caught scum, me

The fact that you're trying to get me off him tell me

he's probably the scum pr

. And you don't want me to kill the scum or do you?

These posts are 6 minutes apart......But FF got confused???

Insomnia's claim, made first, had a 50% chance of being countered in column C. That's why FF should be the lynch. Scum Insom! waits til theres intent.

[teacher]

Didn't stop you from voting though so nice to know you don't need a full or even half full picture to make up your mind.

Since the last post was formatting hell, I just want to make sure this clear misrep is out there. Im not voting.

Got an answer for this one?

[teacher]

VOTE: FF

[teacher]

UNVOTE: It was; I didnt see Emps

[teacher]

My votes there in spirit, but Im still waiting for CC.

[teacher]

If you want to self-hammer, have at it.
VOTE: FF
It will last 10 minutes. And know that town should never do self-hammer.

[teacher]

Quick question before I hit the road -
Insomnia, why was FF highest on your D2 readslist? Like, with no nk, shouldnt Carl have been?
It was that that gave me the pause about your claim. I still think FF is the lynch that makes sense, then you if hes town, but can you explain that?

Doc cover. I've stated that I highly town read FF during day one and I had no interaction with Carl. Would've been iffy to put him first.

And besides, I could've came out and just say he was my protected target. So the reads list doesn't really serve anything here.

I wasn't planning on outing today which is why I decided to have the doc cover.

[teacher]

There is no way if you flip town that Insomnia's not the lynch tomorrow.

[teacher]

she is basically locked scum from my POV if she hammers you and flips town

Why doesn't the same logic apply to icon then?

Then why did you ever get off their wagon?

Like I said so long ago, wagonning insomnia had hella scum motivations. If insomnia is town, scum would know there were 2 PRs left in a pool of 4 unclaimed slots. 50% chance that worked. (8 alive, 2 scum, 2 claimed VT which this world assumes true because town!insomnia->town!ico). If insomnia is scum, theyre scum with Ico.

[teacher]

Just saying, I’m one of the strongest scum players on this site, so if you think I’m panicking here, well alright then.

I’m VT.

I would also like to say that my claim of VT earlier, isn't necessarily true. I just wanted to see how people reacted, mainly to figure out scum, when they thought I was VT, to see if anyone retracted to try and get a PR instead of a mere VT.

Now, I could very well just be VT, or I could be a PR trying to act like I'm VT to avoid being night killed.

Consider me having not have claimed yet; we can let scum try to decode this and see if they can outplay me here.

I got through p 14 and passed out. My claim is real, though bizarre, and agree with Christian though it is different than other times. The biggest change from meta for me is emps - he is pointing to vLa but has posted 100s of times a day while on vLa elsewhere. I’ll ketchup on the second half of the game soonjsh.

1. You have time.
2. Theres some bad mojo between multiple players who have left the room that you can likely glance over around page 15-18.
3. Im a claimed VT because FL was weird and I reaffirmed the claim before seeing FL had retracted it later.

@Carl, this sequence of posts never comes from a player who has a PT and a buddy to update them on the game, FWIW.

[teacher]

UNVOTE:

[teacher]

There is no way if you flip town that Insomnia's not the lynch tomorrow.

Why does it take me flipping town to see what I see?

Or are you scum here backing insom because you know he's wrong and you mislynch me today and then him tomorrow?

This is exactly my fear right now.

Then teacher and cc makes sense as something we need to figure out as well.

In a world with 2 PRs, why would scum!me EVER resist wagonning town!insomnia, who both scumreads me and could out a claim? What POSSIBLE motivation could I have?

[teacher]

Hey guys don't lynch FF while I'm getting bullied by plane

Not for now, but it will be back later.

[teacher]

There is no way if you flip town that Insomnia's not the lynch tomorrow.

Why does it take me flipping town to see what I see?

Or are you scum here backing insom because you know he's wrong and you mislynch me today and then him tomorrow?

This is exactly my fear right now.

Then teacher and cc makes sense as something we need to figure out as well.

In a world with 2 PRs, why would scum!me EVER resist wagonning town!insomnia, who both scumreads me and could out a claim? What POSSIBLE motivation could I have?

Because my death and town flip apparently means that you guys lynch insom no questions asked tomorrow.

But your death only comes from the claim, which is what I resisted. Like you have to try to create a realistic scum motivation for the play

given the gamestate

. Scum!me does not draw attention to the CC/Sleepless slot; does not resist both Ico and Insomnia's early lynches, and is fine letting the day go without all the information we now have.

[teacher]

Why did you fake a cop read on icon after FL claimed vt, you confirmed VT twice and then faked a cop read on someone you can't have any concrete knowledge of their alignment.

Because icon was part of the 2 fake cop claims, and a lolhammer for me comes more often from townpr, so why not try to redirect for a bit.

[teacher]

Teach why town read me with Carl, and then when I assume you'd be down with wagoning the guys scumreading you you rebuked me?

Becuase I dont like people saying what I will do, especially when it misrepresents what I had already said in the thread (thanks for the reminder of another misrep, tho).

[teacher]

Like you have to try to create a realistic scum motivation for the play given the gamestate.

I did. You just don't agree. Seems like we keep meeting here and you never understand what's going on.

I think your scum motivation is that if insom and I are t/t then

you supporting the doc claim

makes more sense because it helps push me as scum and when I flip town you turn around and say insom must have been lying and run him up for the easy win because when Emps dies you can question why kill Emps over insom? And insoms claim becomes less valid and easier for you to push.

Like it doesn't matter. I'm just guessing based on facts in evidence and that's why it's never going to be a complete little package all wrapped up in a bow. I don't have all the info, just what's been given in thread. Scum would obviously have a better handle on the game state and I wouldn't have gone against insom and icon if they were town and I was scum. I would have gone to that side and helped them lynch emps and teacher.

No, the timeline is way off. My question in 3867 was why does scum!me ever resist wagonning town!insomnia, when that could out a claim -- I.e., my question is why was I resisting running insomnia up BEFORE the claim. You answer pertains to AFTER the claim. Two different gamestates.

[teacher]

This question will sound silly but bear with me.

When you read this post, reply to it and tell me if you think this game is easy or hard.

Actual solvability -- about average. Im at the point where I know what I should do, and what to do from that.

Readability + toxicity -- worst Ive ever played in, and below average, respectively.

[teacher]

but icon didnt lolhammer, he hammered out of fear that he would be run up.

And when that was discoved, I flipped. Before that, it was a lulz to me.

[teacher]

hmmmm now this is funny teacher was the 1st to vote insom but when we do he doesnt want to odd indeed

It’s like you don’t even fucking read the game. I was softing cop on Ico because I thought he was a power role. I couldn’t very well be on Ico at the time.

Yes I think insomnia is scummy. About as scummy as Ico

So let’s play both out.

Ico is claimed vt. Insomnia is unclaimed. What benefit is there to running the new slot up

unless you believe Ico is town?

. None.

The issue is nobody here has made that assumption. Like everyone in here has expressed a desire to kill him but insomnia. Ico is a lock lynch because of the lolhammer.

Thus scum wants that player (if town) to be alive at mylo/lylo. There are scum reasons to change target today.

I seriously cannot come up with town other than truly doubting the Ico lynch. And nobody has done that.

Ico’s recent posts have read towny but that doesn’t make up for the lolhammer and other issues.

PEdit: I get it and am fine w it (May even agree) but my concern is leaving insomnia for lylo/mylo is less optimal if it’s wrong. I’d rather resort insomnia than Ico, and think that’s more beneficial overall. Like you have been saying forever, Ico is the walking dead and shouldn’t slither off just because we were waiting for a replacement. Plus there’s the risk of outing the protective/semip

to those not currently voting Ico

why?

who would you vote?

Is it because you would prefer an Insom lynch > Ico?

Are you scared of a self-hammer from Ico?

Sorting a vacant slot before potential mylo.

I’m voting Ico. I’m probably not voting insomnia. Why you ask? Well, I think Ico is scummy enough for rope and if I’m wrong I don’t want there to be three fully claimed slots in a six person town for an off-brand scumteam tonight.

Not really scared of the selfhammer. Am scared of others passing impatience/drunkenness/stonedness.

FF, if it helps you any, this was my motivation. Now why would scum resist having another slot claim.

PEdit: That's right, I would resist if Insomnia was my partner. Now find a motivation for both me and insomnia to resist Ico?

[teacher]

but icon didnt lolhammer, he hammered out of fear that he would be run up.

And when that was discoved, I flipped. Before that, it was a lulz to me.

And now you are voting with Icon on me... (in spirit I suppose)?

Yes. Because your hard rush to end the day and then swap to another slot do not have town motivation.

[teacher]

I would have indeed. If it was just me stalling a game out, I didnt want to be a dick. But I was doing what I thought best.

[teacher]

Really pushed to end the day my fucking ass.

Hmmmm..... You tell me.

It stops here, today, and it starts with Icon in a tree.

HAMMER AWAY!!!!!

We could just lynch him like I want to do.

Meh. I feel like lag in games is bad for town.

Like one game I was legit outed scum. Town left me alive for 2 days. Let me hammer a mislynch on the 1st day.

Bad things happen when you let known scum live longer than they should.

This is why we shouldn't let the evil Mastermind live. You catch him and you put a bullet in his head before he finishes taking in that first deep breath where he's about to tell you all about his evil plan.

Don't let him. Shoot him in the head and shut off his scum brain

Another reason icon might not have hammered himself is because when he's ded he can't post in the scum pt anymore

Oingo Boingo- Dead Mans Party

ok, cc, if you wanted you could join us on Icon and you would have all night to read without us increasing pages exponentially.

We should be lynching Icon for hammering on an unclaimed slot with 4 days left on the clock

Like why would you even deny this?

[teacher]

@Carl, talk to me about why Cyrus didnt even make your lists?

*Im going to leave now, btw, for a couple hour roadtrip.

[teacher]

I think I said I wasnt sure. That is the primary reason I want Fish today, so I can lynch both CC and Cyrus if hes scum. If I can get convinced hes town, then I wont be such a stick in the mud.

[teacher]

Like why would you even deny this?

Do you deny that I also told CC to take her time and that we would wait for her?

Just because im cheerleading something doesnt mean that im scum, it means I was pushing my read.

Did Icon sit there or did he push scum reads? This is the game we play.

CC/Teacher 4 life!

Nice snip of the misrep. You said you werent pushing to end the day. I showed you were.