Newbie 1968 - Game Over

[the worst]

VOTE: Uncrowned

no questions, no talk
we lynch uncrowded and glhf d2

[the worst]

Would that be because you are a dwarf, and the rest of us are ducks?

[the worst]

VOTE: Jacksonvirgo

Touching my boy uncrowned

hey look buddy if you wanna oppose the Uncrowned wagon you're gonna have to go thru me

why did you choose to vote Jacks for vote#1 instead of me for the snazzy size 300 vote here Mr. Zeppeli?

BTW very happy to play with you again - I nearly cried like 3 times about your lynch in our last game. Not really. But maybe a little.

[the worst]

im gonna commit rage

I'm p interested in this - if it's friendly rage, rage your ragiest!

Actually, I know this is RVS and I know that it's meme time now but I think Gyro is literally scum here with this entrance

I think one or maybe even BOTH of you are scum

Actually, I know this is RVS and I know that it's meme time now but I think Gyro is literally scum here with this entrance

Why and why aren't you voting them?

I liek u except for the ojoi vote, why'd you pick my rage pal?

[the worst]

ya big mood

[the worst]

You seem nervous, Jacksy. Feeling the heat of me staring into your soul? Look into my black beady eyes and tell me your alignment. I dare you.

[the worst]

VOTE: thomth

Uncr--I have a tendency to be pretty noisy at the start of the game. Don't you worry, noisy ducky's coming.

A couple of things about uncrowned's posting here is very different to his last game. Bonus points if anyone can pick it. (if not I'll just sit on it to make him sweat then out it later)

I actually very faintly feel scum!Gyro here. He just strikes me as the kinda guy who'd laugh at me for trying to pressure him on pg3 and I just hate being bullied.

That saiddddd if he's scum he's scum with Thomth so great success!

[the worst]

If you really insist, we can lynch one of you! In days past folks would be policy lynched for claiming scum - it's also kinda dubiously against site rules to claim mafia along with someone else

So I'm proceeding on the basis that you're joking because it seems pretty clear that you are, and aren't trying to break site rules :>

on that basis I got 6 more slots to sort and only have 1.5 reads so I have my work cut out for me! I'll read you when you start playin and Jacks when they do more AI stuff

[the worst]

Then can’t scum just claim scum because people wont think their scum because that’s against the rules ?

I think this is part of why it's against the rules
Sincerely claiming scum with people is too close to gamethrowing which is against the rules
Arguments about whether people would gamethrow to sort alignments is kinda against the spirit of the game

=> better to just remove the factor

I'm not a official mafia mod here, this is kinda my stance on mafia in a general sense, but still - not gonna place much stock in a scumclaim. I'll treat it as a joke because I think it's better for the integrity of the game

This is kinda mafia theory, might be better to talk about it post-game

[the worst]

@duckyboi are you regarding that Uncrowned joked around compared to seriously voted like previously?

Yeah partly - any thoughts on that?

[the worst]

What I'm liking about Uncrowded at a tonal/mindset level - he feels more relaxed/fluid in his thoughts; he's long/deep con scum (even last game, his early ISO was geared towards establishing reads and creating an optically-towny opening) so I do think the fact he's posting quickly and posting funnier should be considered indicative of a pure conscience

Check this here:

VOTE: Jacksonvirgo

Touching my boy uncrowned

I love you

VOTE: Uncrowned

no questions, no talk
we lynch uncrowded and glhf d2

Am I threatening your scum regime? Is that why you want me gone?

VOTE: Uncrowned

no questions, no talk
we lynch uncrowded and glhf d2

Agreed

You too? Well I know who I'm looking at as my scum team.

Actually, I know this is RVS and I know that it's meme time now but I think Gyro is literally scum here with this entrance

What about his entrance is scum?

VOTE: The Worst

Don't start a gunfight with me, I have a really, REALLY big gun.

Would that be because you are a dwarf, and the rest of us are ducks?

hey that's what i was gonna say except without the dwark/duck thing

keep stealing my content and I will end you

against -

worst is either super memey during the beginning of games or hes trying to be funny and get on everyones good side to start out with

you didnt have a pockety playstyle last game so thats interesting

will check prior games if i can be bothered finding them to see if its unusual

- calling me out for being memey and cute and pockety, quite pot/kettle

it creates a kind of slippy hypocrisy which makes me think Uncrowded is actually paying quite a lot less attention to how he's being perceived this game than he was last time

most recent posts before this one feel like a fluid train of thought ("I dislike tw therefore am suspect of his vo-- oh I checked that ISO and it's kinda scummy nvm")

He's either entered this game 1) not giving a fuck, or 2) tryna act like he doesn't give a fuck - the subtle hypocrisy in his read of me vs. the fact that's the energy he's putting out makes me swing back towards #1

it's more than just a fluid tone; it's a relaxed mindset when his established scum mindset is pretty calculated and manipulative

[the worst]

think Gyro is a valid wagon maybe later in the phase? I intend to advance the gamestate pretty fast so hopefully he'll find this phase more exciting

[the worst]

Good time to expand, dwarf pal. We have some sketchy slots, some contributors, and a (imo) decent towncase two posts up from this one - let's totally murder rvs on page 5 yeah?

[the worst]

Any thoughts outside expired meta? I appreciate first hand experience lends to tonereads pretty instinctively but I'd say I've produced ~the most AI content itt so I'd be pretty interested in seeing what you think of my play, rather than an explanation of why you're voting me off tone.

I push back because you're normally pretty good at reading me. I'm balking slightly but only slightly.

[the worst]

"towncase" => case on why you're town, not a reason to townread me!

I'm not sure I should be townread yet, necessarily - but I should be readable, either correctly or incorrectly, and I am looking for something in the reads on me.

[the worst]

quack

also - good to have you back Urist lmao<3

[the worst]

all good dude lingo gonna lingo

[the worst]

I don't suuuuper trust myself to get JV right quite yet but I have a read brewing. Alex gives me little warm fuzzies too. Don't want gyro touched *yet* but I also think his scum equity here is markedly higher than his scum equity in our prev. game so I'm not giving him a full clear this phase - actually I think we should be starting to get him involved in a few days if we can

Fluctuating read on me is fine, I'm more interested in how Urist/others are seeing me for now

[the worst]

ehh not feeling anything AI in this game yet

what do you think of Thomth and Uncrowned to start off with? - I think we need to kinda reach but this is a pretty narrow distance to cross.

@Uncrowned, old me/Urist meta. I'll dig up the games.

[the worst]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77949
(town!duck / town!urist)
as he said I was an IC ("Inexperience Challenged") player that game; it's a role which has since been made redundant. The IC would kinda assume responsibility for teaching about game related stuff while the SEs would kinda keep them accountable/be examples. We just run X newbies / Y SEs these days, no more IC

When ICing I used to take a suuuper back seat approach and try to torment others into producing content rather than doing so myself - felt it was a more engaging way to torture newbies into playing - my thoughts on this in general have kind of changed. we can talk about this post-game if people are interested.



viewtopic.php?f=84&t=78663
(scum!duck / town!urist)
this was a super fast game and a pretty strong town/easy list to correctly read so I took the strategy of trying to make the gamestate d1 really frustrating to keep up with, and pushing Urist into the corner as my d1 mislynch. Because Mechanics, I would then use the night actions to flip myself, letting my nearly-0-postibg partner cruise through while the surviving townies mislynch each other

[the worst]

@Worst well now i'm offended you don't care how i see you

I want you to like me out of game ofc but I'm here to find the scums first :<

[the worst]

I had a good game

Worst why don't you trust your initial read on JV

*flails frantically in the direction of Newbie 1963*
I do have a read brewing I'd just rather take more time on it. I threw my townread out on them too quickly last time and ended up regretting and flipping on it in lylo :/

I'm also considering a tell but I'm not sure if it's AI or not yet so to not kinda put them on alert abt what I'm looking at it's probably better for me to take my time with this read

[the worst]

I'd call Faustiv's popins just Very Null tbh

pedit: nice invisible post JV

[the worst]

I am indeed Aussie. We're flooding the site. Yeet.
Vote not moving aorn - please try not to unvote - if you can keep your votes in play it creates wagons which produce readable content

[the worst]

and i see how uncrowned is more scum-like than others here, his attitude is, in fact, a bit more disorganised than what he was like in Newbie 1963, and i could see a scum doing that from my experience being mafia in other games

It is a clever meta manipulation. How do you feel about him calling my similar behaviours scummy tho? I feel like if he set out to twist his meta this hard, it'd take a pretty abstract mindset to also decide to call the thing you're doing to look towny, scummy when someone else does it

Does this make sense? I've had some wine. I know my brain thoughts make sense but my mouth words are a different matter.

Why are people voting Ojoj/thomth

I can see why people are voting both in slow motion - what are your best guesses Gyro?

[the worst]

just read 180-182
...wig

[the worst]

time to stir the pot with a spicy page 7 reads list

Uncrowned
JV
Alex/TW

Urist
Gyro/Ojoi

Faustiv
Thomth

this is a town too-early-readlist
I'll bet my like
long quackin' mafia career on this page 6 read
I promise I'll reevaluate this and communicate if I start not townreading Uncrowned but

This is town!!

[the worst]

Ain't nothing gonna breaka my stride, nobody gonna slow me down, oh no

I still love you very much regardless of your alignment here Gyro

JV also consistently more likely town

^_^

[the worst]

just read 180-182
...wig

wig?

my wig blew off

[the worst]

I'm also fairly drunk now for the second time this week - not sure that's a major factor I'm just More Me Than Me

[the worst]

What about this read list gives you town vibes? What are your thoughts on the positioning of each player? if you want to keep those cards close to your chest for the moment that's cool i'll respect that, but this is a take from you that I'd like to hear about sooner or later

This is a thing I try to leave to games where I'm feeling fancy and out of newbies but please remind me to answer this tomorrow - it's a spiritual thing rn that I'll have words for in the morning

[the worst]

the more I think about it the more im like "Hm, for a guy that thinks I'm so smart and cunning, he's really not that suspicious of me entirely switching up my play between games"

is it any comfort that I came into this game expecting a massive meta shift

and still townread your meta shift

and townread the fact that you're uncomfortable around my townread of your meta shift?

[the worst]

So a fairly famous player, if you frequent the wikis in your mafia learning, is Mastina

She will say

effort =/= alignment

over and over again
newbie 1963 is a fantastic example to an extent

Uncrowned put a tonne of effort into laying out a thick web, and I didn't realise I was in it until I misvoted in lylo - that's a really good example of effort =/= alignment

So all that said:
JV's effort towards this game is towny as hell

[the worst]

I'm not sure tbh

expand?

[the worst]

I feel like 201 is something you'd say whether you were town or scum, so i dont think thats telling me anything about your alignment

yeah - 201 is either a real feel or something I've set up for sure

I also like JV this game and think their playstyle is an improved version of their play in 1963

+1 Uncrowned town

[the worst]

Why are you agreeing with effort=/=alignment but then say I am townie because of effort?

Effort =/= alignment is a super valuable lesson for anyone new to learn. A good scum can overturn an effort=alignment read instantly.

But your effort is towny. Uncrowned said it better. It's the next phase of your towngame from 1963. You've like, absorbed town things from that game and done them here. It's a beautiful experience.

If uncr/jv/tw is t/t/t we all fistbumping

[the worst]

scumcrowned is gold

I don't think I can conscionably scumread you rn, I'm moving you to nearly-copcleared-town. Nearly. I'll either contract this brutally, or back it up tomorrow.

If you wanna call out the inconsistency we can talk about it if you want.

[the worst]

I'm gonna talk about something to ~4 people postgame. It's out of game stuff but this is a reminder so I see it when I ISO myself after the game.

[the worst]

ahhhhhhhh yes
okay
everything you post gets townier

I might bow out for the night because I'm wary of people reading pg. 9 in a day of a newbie bit like. yes. that's so good pickup and I think I've explained why it's not too concerning fmpov.

[the worst]

I'm gonna talk about something to ~4 people postgame. It's out of game stuff but this is a reminder so I see it when I ISO myself after the game.

Do you usually look through your ISO after a game?

mhm : ]
1963 is slightly off centre because I did it to place the hammer vote

but I normally try to give some feedback to folks who are new to the site

[the worst]

yall this whole 'newbie game' is so ironic
acting like a newbie is literally instantly ruled out to be some kind of deception, cant even go by without being called out to be somewhat suspicious aye?

fwiw I make a very concerned effort to read newbies at face value, and only play newbie games so often because I like to provide feedback etc. to newcomers on face value

just happens jv/uncrowed/i just finished a newbie game where scumcrowned traumatised us all

sorry for the awkward meta talk

[the worst]

If uncr/jv/tw is t/t/t we all fistbumping

I approve this Uncrowned/JV/TW townbloc, minus TW being in the townbloc.

I think you being paranoid of me as a concept is valid
I'm not convinced you're paranoid of me in this particular game

:u I'm cool w/ waiting for other slots to weigh in & for you to expand

[the worst]

It's pretty valuable keeping your vote in play here if you have two scumreads

[the worst]

Could you talk to me a bit about what you're seeing as scum indicative from Urist?

[the worst]

bird person

oh I liek you

how are your reads comign along? - forum mafia is a strange adjustment from the mechanical solve of chatbased maf but hopefully you have some fun here

[the worst]

it's your time to shine ducky boi

I'll probs need to do this in detail at a PC [coming soon [tm]] - trajectory makes sense which is consistent with you as either alignment I suspect but you're also not playing up the slots which you aren't confident on to make them look worse than they might be; you're either town or you're not positioning mislynches and it looks exactly like you're sorting players

I think throwing the readlist down was also semi ironically something you *didn't* need to do to be townread

so I like it :>

[the worst]

The readlist itself isn't clearing, but it is town indicative, it's just that you're very towny overall and it kinda just struck me in this moment of pure cognisance, it was beautiful.

[the worst]

Likewise, if it's town!tw, he wouldn't need to be making and be within a townbloc from D1. All I'm saying is that don't ever conftown tw this game (exception ofcourse being mechanical) and read his intentions behind his posts, not just the vibe he's giving off.

This is very true. How are you reading my intentions so far? I accept it's a shallow read atm but you don't need like 100% accuracy on me d1

[the worst]

VOTE: faustiv
you're a splendid wagon salesman, uncr.

[the worst]

Imo using replace-outs as a method of reading someone is kinda against the spirit of the game (it's something I've done before; I'm not proud of it). There's any number of reasons Faustiv may have replaced out - we can judge his slot by the content it produces.

@Uncrowned, I'm not voting Faustiv for the same reason you spoke about voting Faustiv.

[the worst]

I like most of the more talkative slots so I want to pressure one who isn't alignment telling yet. :>

[the worst]

Thomth is exposed - regardless of alignment they really need to elaborate on their last post and talk through a bit more of their thought process rather than just sorta.. dropping reads. That being said they've come out to play and should get *more* readable as they produce more content - if they freeze up, we can lynch them later!

Faustiv-slot has been acknowledged as like Very Null but I don't think anyone has really given the replacement a reason to sweat. I think having someone enter a game while under fire due to their predecessor is a great way to get the replacer invested in the game quickly.

Sorry but I'm not sure you're going to get much out of these questions; it's very much theoretical/"armchair scumhunting" - if anything talking through this as I'm doing it and before folks react to it marginally weakens the effectiveness of the strategy - my primary POA this early in the game is to get folks engaged and produce readable content.

[the worst]

Just a feeling; claiming scum with no reason is scummy but its for a research project.

ojoi/faustiv
PvtUrist/Alexcellent
Thomth/gyro
PvtUrist/the worst

Uncrowned
Gyro
Thomth
Alexcellent
ojoi

Urist voted for himself so that made him a target for me. I then voted ojoi because he did and I wanted to see her reaction. I claimed two scum because I was after Urist, time was already out and Alexcellent voted ojoi too. I reasoned that claiming Urist scum along with someone else would lower the heat, claiming scum when I had 3 votes was a high risk thing to do and Alexcellent would have time to defend himself.

The list is who I thought might be a pair of mafia and who I thought might be town.

could you talk to me about where you're seeing a PvtUrist/alexcellent team, why you listed yourself and gyro as a team, and where the Alexc & ojoi townreads are coming from?

[the worst]

Hiya Gjt - keen to see your thoughts on the game so far.

Just as an aside particularly @JV - I've been lolhammered on like page 5 following an attempted rap battle before. Being heavily wagoned in rvs isn't generally alignment indicative unless the gamestate stagnates around your lynch going through. (basically what Uncrowned said)

[the worst]

your replacement seems pretty fine posting elsewhere

interesting

I believe that's angleshooting and is not allowed right?

I thought as long as it wasn't in direct reference to another ongoing game it was fine. My understanding was general vague statements were allowed. If not my mistake

It is indeed angleshooting and we indeed do not have a rule against it - have a squizz at this:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30908&p=10572188#p10572188

[the worst]

The pairs of who I think are mafia in my mind tend towards being half incorrect.

If I had a bit more time and was less sleepy I'd talk through this post a fair bit as I think there are some kind of abstract assumptions about what scumteams do in here and I'm not sure how to read it.

I'm wondering if it would be easier for you to just do a tiered readlist? e.g.

{conftown}
{townreads}
{townleans}
{null}
{scumleans}
{scumreads}
{confscum}

it's pretty hard calling out the scumteam with 9 players alive if you're town - if you focus on individual slots you have a 2/8 chance to have a correct scumread whereas if you try to nail the team d1 your chances of being correct are astronomically lower

[the worst]

I'm noticing a few pocketing attempts which imo is never a good imagine

could you point these out to me?

[the worst]

I'm leaving my vote on Gjt. Opener was more scummy than Faustiv's ISO.

[the worst]

Gjt could you please point out what you're seeing as pockety, and talk through why you're seeing it as scummy?

I'm hard pressed to see why me referring to wanting to talk about something post-game is scummy. Ridiculous, maybe, if that's your perspective. It's borderline non-game related though, so I'm very keen to see why you think I'm aligned with the mafia.

[the worst]

Given this is a newbie and given the plist: do you think I shouldn't lead? I've been making a concerned effort to try and engage people, but am definitely reserving to/honouring newbies who are super active here (JV/Uncrowned are the obvious examples). I think my value add in this game is staying engaged and trying to engage others, not powerdriving lynches I want 1/3 of the way into d1.

You're kind of stopping half of the way to explaining why you think I'm scum. You don't like people taking the reins in early-game? Then you'd better avoid charismatic noisy folk. You don't like that I'm pressuring your slot for content despite having slots I think are more likely scum 72 hours into the game? Then you're not taking the time to empathise with the townies who are trying to read your slot, which makes me think you're pushing things you consider optically poor rather than scum motivated.

Town win by lynching scum. Scum win by lining up mislynches.
Casing me based on things you think are bad play or

might come from scum!

is something that's either misguided, or scum-motivated.

So if you're scumreading me can we work a couple of layers deeper than things you think are bad play? I'm interested to see what you think my motives are. If you think I'm leading the game in a malicious way, what do you think I'm doing that's malicious besides literally taking a leading stance?


Other consideration is my inactive vote.... With my stance on other players, the amount of time on the clock, and how little your pred did: do you not think I should be pushing you?

[the worst]

I'm taking the defensive because I MIGHT be seeing a tell in Gjt's push on me and I want to open their brain <:

[the worst]

@Thomth
The best thing I can teach you is how to play mafia, find scum or be good scum - if that means you end up mislynching me it's a point against my wincon in-game but if the lynch is well fought and y'all learn from it I'm a happy duck.

I won't play against my wincon or compromise this game in the slightest. Doesn't mean I'm happy with you just writing me off because I'm experienced. :#

[the worst]

@Urist

i'm liking your contributions but feel like you're only giving them when prompted to do so. have you got any idea of where you want to head lynch wise for this day?

I was kinda holding off on calling this out but I don't believe any of Urist's contributions lol

[the worst]

Might be best to move on from replacement stuff guys - Gjt has readable content itt

[the worst]

I forgot sry Uncr - most recent scumgames
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=80979
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/ ... sotis.188/

most recent towngames
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81174
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81440
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81134 (as wooper)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80863 (tw then wooper)


I have more meta than most folks onsite so if you're looking for how I respond to certain things as a particular alignment, let me know.

I've been taking it easy a bit lately wrt number of games and haven't been rolling scum so often. sorry for off-site game link, I'd normally avoid it, but I think it shows a wider scumrange than the onsite game

[the worst]

VOTE: ojoi

this is L-1 - the next vote will be a hammer.

[the worst]

It's fine, I don't think ojoi reads like a town power role.

[the worst]

Urist works pretty hard iirc so vacation isn't likely AI
But like he also... hasn't done anything towny yet this game...

[the worst]

Self vote is kinda irksome given I'd expect he has at least two scumreads esp. given small number of stated townreads

[the worst]

It's not outside his town range at all tho.

[the worst]

viewtopic.php?t=81283&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

fresh spicy faustiv meta anyone~~?
main takeaway is he appears to be self aware to know how he's perceived when posting as scum; I don't think his awkward/disengaged posting here should really be taken as alignment indicative but I like where folks were coming from with it

Gjt's takes and frustration @ me might? be towny but they haven't really opened their brain enough for this to be a very confident read

[the worst]

top to bottom town:
tw
uncr
jv
alexc
gjt/thomth

ojoi gyro urist I'm least comfortable with aorn

[the worst]

sure thing. meta is funny like that. this post probably won't be super interesting to folks who don't enjoy hard meta but if you're curious about it hopefully it's informative.

i've fairly consistently played mafia for the last couple of years straight now; i wouldn't call myself a GREAT PLAYER but i think i have like, fairly wide ranges as both alignments and i'm reasonably self-aware. i know a lot of my tells. i don't tend to change my meta from game to game just for the sake of it, because that is exhausting. but i'll definitely tweak my meta around to throw people in-game off the scent. "how i'd approach this game if i were scum" is not a very useful conversation rn, and is probably something better had postgame, but we can have it after d1-d2 if it's needed and appropriate (basically: having this type of conversation half way thru d1 is wifom and does nothing but obfuscate your ability to read me accurately).

so there's probably ~tells~ on me that i'm not aware of, but there would be many more outdated tells which i AM aware of. i don't think tonereading me in most situations is particularly fruitful. so if there's a certain tell you're curious about/working on, it maaayyyy work out in your best interest to talk about it, or ask for more specific examples. obviously, if i haven't produced enough content of a certain type, then you shouldn't out the tell yet.

pedit: bit o' both, i think i've been pretty transparent with having a firm eye on him for a while now

[the worst]

i'm not sure i scumread urist outright, there's just a bit of a hole in his pushes. he's scumreading me because of outdated meta (i don't think he's taken the time to check himself on how outdated/nuanced that meta is, which makes me think he's not actually giving it that much credit. this can come from either alignment (town can be like "hmm meta's just a small factor"; scum can just be signalling that they're using meta which means they're so towny!!!) but it's worth noting).

he's townreading you but wants it noted that you're a good scum player therefore this read isn't all that reliable

i think he likes JV as well but my memory is fuzzy

i have liked some of his votes but i fairly strongly disliked the recent self-vote

[the worst]

Not calling anyone out specifically on this, but does comparing previous games really work. Another place I play I know some of the players quite well, but bar jokey D1 posts I ignore previous games because most people don't play the same way too often whether they role scum various times in a row or Town. I'm new here and know no one, only played one game so far and I believe only person from this game in that one is the person I replaced.

What saying is not to overthink previous games even if there are tales as that's how Scum end up slipping through. Someone may make similar posts from their scum game in their Town game

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.
That's basically what this convo boils down to.

If you take Ellibereth games as an example, his meta expertise is so profound that his read accuracy rate as town is nearly 100%.
As a part of site culture, we do tend to use meta quite a lot. I'd suggest sometimes it's used a little bit haphazardly, which is why I'm super keen on theoretical conversations like these, even if they do detract *slightly* from traditional dayplay.

Hello there, btw. I'd be pretty interested in your thoughts on this;

Given this is a newbie and given the plist: do you think I shouldn't lead? I've been making a concerned effort to try and engage people, but am definitely reserving to/honouring newbies who are super active here (JV/Uncrowned are the obvious examples). I think my value add in this game is staying engaged and trying to engage others, not powerdriving lynches I want 1/3 of the way into d1.

You're kind of stopping half of the way to explaining why you think I'm scum. You don't like people taking the reins in early-game? Then you'd better avoid charismatic noisy folk. You don't like that I'm pressuring your slot for content despite having slots I think are more likely scum 72 hours into the game? Then you're not taking the time to empathise with the townies who are trying to read your slot, which makes me think you're pushing things you consider optically poor rather than scum motivated.

Town win by lynching scum. Scum win by lining up mislynches.
Casing me based on things you think are bad play or

might come from scum!

is something that's either misguided, or scum-motivated.

So if you're scumreading me can we work a couple of layers deeper than things you think are bad play? I'm interested to see what you think my motives are. If you think I'm leading the game in a malicious way, what do you think I'm doing that's malicious besides literally taking a leading stance?


Other consideration is my inactive vote.... With my stance on other players, the amount of time on the clock, and how little your pred did: do you not think I should be pushing you?

don't expect you to respond to the whole thing in detail - I'm just wondering how your read is progressing.

[the worst]

not an exaggeration!

[the worst]

yeah it's hard to read into policy type reads too much in general. understand why you didn't really have a response.

how are your other reads progressing?

[the worst]

scumhunting is definitely spicier on later phases. :> everything now helps tho!

[the worst]

suggestions wrt...?

[the worst]

suggestions wrt...?

Like, how to interact with and sort players. Say, how I could start discussions with players this game.

just like talk about what you're seeing

ask people what they think of what you're seeing

if you are confused or uncomfortable by something someone's saying ask them for more information on it

there's a lot of tricks to generating content but those are three pretty standard tactics I think..?

[the worst]

v cute avi jv

I kinda think I should be able to sort Urist if he starts actually believing what he's saying but like him not really having any conviction is scum indicative

So I guess I'd rather lynch not-him today but he's not someone I'm gonna defend

[the worst]

Gjt you should keep your vote in play!

[the worst]

Gyro feels less towny than he did last time :< but we didn't wagon him this time so I guess the nuance in the tell I used last time doesn't really apply hey

[the worst]

Gjt talk me through your reasoning for hammering so early please. I was keen for more content primarily from Ojoi's slot and PvtUrist there.

[the worst]

Actually swinging super faintly towards town on Thomth..it sincerely doesn't feel like he cares about how he's perceived.

Gjt, update on your current reads in your next post please.

[the worst]

@JV a lot is up, but largely not mafia related. What do you want answered?

I'll need time to catch up later, sorry.

[the worst]

i'd probably comb for TPR tells, or just compromise on Uncrowned

[the worst]

i think i just want to call urist town

gyro i'm less sure of, like
in our last game where he was town he didn't give a stuff about how he was perceived
for everything he does which looks better here, there is the like
unstated fact that he knows it looks better
he's trying to look towny regardless of his alignment : /

[the worst]

Thomth is actually probably town

[the worst]

VOTE: thomth

I thought he posted well under pressure - not a strong read and I'm obviously fallible. I'll sheep you a bit.

[the worst]

Probably shouldn't claim unless there's stated intent to hammer. (someone not on the wagon should be like "yo I'm gonna hammer this")

[the worst]

There is too much fear put into the thought of hammering. If they flip Town it's bad because it's a scummy thing to do. If they flip Scum, your Scum because your just trying to cover your tracks by looking good and being on the wagon. If you strongly believe someone to be scum regardless of who or L-1 vote for them. If they get lynched you were obviously not alone on your reads. Not trying to say someone needs to hammer now, but don't need to be fearful of it otherwise we'll never have anyone hammer in any game

This is a really good point, something I align with more as I get older as a player. And yet - recklessly hammering can be very costly (see: d1). Like everything its a balancing sct.

[the worst]

VOTE: Gyro
JV - I think I see something and I'm not sure how openly I should talk about it. If you have no idea what I'm talking about that's a sign I should talk openly.

[the worst]

How you were acting ya

[the worst]

I don't really scumread Thomth in a vacuum - they're unusual but I don't think they're unusual in a way that comes with just being a big ol' liar. I think they just have a different play style - I get the feeling more recently that they're trying to solve the game but like. I'm not hard town on him I just don't get the scumreads

Something you said made me want to press him a lot harder but the fact you think I'm scum for pushing at him makes me think I probably just misunderstood what you were pushing :U

I am voting Gyro because I don't really dislike Gjt - I think their reach out to you last page was towny. They were aware that it would look pockety and did it in full despite that and the way they reached out felt like they were trying to understand what was going on rather than deceive you. They're getting townier. I'm a bit concerned Gyro isn't seeing that.

[the worst]

I held one thing back but I'm alluding to it there JV.

[the worst]

There's a fine line between pocketing and working with my strong townreads - I can see the cause for concern. If you think I'm using like "towncred"/how townread I am or manipulating pockets to push an agenda that's a definite tell we should have a convo about - the certain someone thing makes me curious.

otherwise.. yeah it's hard to read into

[the worst]

Tfw you're town but you're everyone's scumbuddy

[the worst]

Thomth, Alexcellent, Gjt

I'd really like you three to vote in your next post please.

[the worst]

VOTE: Gyro

JV!Thom feels tvt.

Gyro is policy lynch

.

Not even close pal.
Any read on their content?

[the worst]

I town read JV > you (gjt) > thomth aorn.
Urist is a wildcard. I think his takes are ridiculous. But town!Urist is rarely bothered with trying to look relatable. I don't think he's really putting a lot into solving the game. But he is busy. He's like, hard null, I can't really commit to either read on him rn

Alexc I'm hard pressed to remember anything from off the top of my head so... soft null

I am kinda more interested in Urist answering 626 than casing Gyro so I'm just gonna say I actively dislike Gyro this time.

Sorry for activity dip - busy week/weekend. This week isn't looking better.

[the worst]

Whatcha seeing with Gjt Gyro?

[the worst]

Lukewarm take but I'm really not sure Gyro has the capacity to act non weirdly

I'm filing that hot take under the "maybe" category - it's something thy floated past my consciousness but I'm not sure it's something I sincerely believe

[the worst]

Compare to our last game together JV

[the worst]

@tw how many games have you played in total? And is there a record anywhere?

probably around 80 I guess

and I have a super outdated list - if you wanna make one I'd be honoured

you after anything in particular?

[the worst]

I forgot sry Uncr - most recent scumgames
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=80979
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/ ... sotis.188/

most recent towngames
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81174
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81440
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81134 (as wooper)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80863 (tw then wooper)


I have more meta than most folks onsite so if you're looking for how I respond to certain things as a particular alignment, let me know.

I've been taking it easy a bit lately wrt number of games and haven't been rolling scum so often. sorry for off-site game link, I'd normally avoid it, but I think it shows a wider scumrange than the onsite game

top link in this post was a newbie game. I roll town very regularly in newbie games sorry, my town meta is more exhaustive by a mile.

cold meta is rough so if you're working a tell let me know. I'm the forefront expert on me, and its against my best interests to lie. (though I'm also able to ~spin~ tells to look towny but.... yeah.... you know)

[the worst]

VOTE: Gjt

[the worst]

Why have you held your vote so long Gjt

[the worst]

Don't hammer this yet pls I have things to talk about tomorrow

[the worst]

irl-tomorrow

[the worst]

Any counterwagon interest you atm?

[the worst]

hi jv. more traditional players would call claiming scum anti-town as a matter of policy. but yeah it's pretty obvious when it's a joke and its not much of a thing.

[the worst]

Any counterwagon interest you atm?

I can probably be talked into lynching thomths slot after his more recent string of posts. But if majority can't be convinced of GJT then I guess Gyro it is.

So you have one scumread..?
Nobody you wanna scare the poop out of to see if they're a gjt partner?

[the worst]

Could I have a quick list of your reads please?

[the worst]

Hi Kerset

[the worst]

VOTE: Gyro I'll be around plenty before EOD

[the worst]

Alexc paranoia is reducing
I guess no one else wants to lynch Urist..?

[the worst]

tw
kerset
jv
alexc
gjt
gyro
pvturist

The more I think on it the more I'd rather just lunch urist I think. It's kinda hard to parse which of gjt/gyro would be scum with him etc. but I'd say gjt has some stances which would be kind of pointless for scum to double down on..? idk

I suppose if the POE lynch pool is mostly-scum then scum need to keep some mislynches open. but despite being busy I don't feel like I'm actually a very easy mislynch..shrug

Gyro and Gjt both don't feel like they want to die. Gyro doubly so. I might actually be ok with Kerset calling a preferred lynch in their next post and that person claiming.

[the worst]

Was Gyro L-1? If so I genuinely miscounted. Sorry.

[the worst]

Hi Kerset

Did you know that i have only one game without duck in it?

You drew a very short straw.

(friendly reminder to not talk about ongoing games; I wouldn't say your post breaks the rule but better safe than sorry)

[the worst]

I meant for d2....

[the worst]

Votecount 2.05

Gyro Zeppeli (3) -

JacksonVirgo, PvtUrist, Gjt

Gjt (2) -

Gyro Zeppeli, the worst

JacksonVirgo (1) -

Thomth

Not Voting (1) -

Alexcellent

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2019-12-11 15:45:00).

Both of the other slots I dislike are voting Gyro fmi
Not much of a counterwagon
Urist vote looked more like a bus

[the worst]

VOTE: Gyro

JV!Thom feels tvt. Gyro is policy lynch.

This :U

[the worst]

Yeah a few times. I linked a couple of our games.

[the worst]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77949
(town!duck / town!urist)
as he said I was an IC ("Inexperience Challenged") player that game; it's a role which has since been made redundant. The IC would kinda assume responsibility for teaching about game related stuff while the SEs would kinda keep them accountable/be examples. We just run X newbies / Y SEs these days, no more IC

When ICing I used to take a suuuper back seat approach and try to torment others into producing content rather than doing so myself - felt it was a more engaging way to torture newbies into playing - my thoughts on this in general have kind of changed. we can talk about this post-game if people are interested.



viewtopic.php?f=84&t=78663
(scum!duck / town!urist)
this was a super fast game and a pretty strong town/easy list to correctly read so I took the strategy of trying to make the gamestate d1 really frustrating to keep up with, and pushing Urist into the corner as my d1 mislynch. Because Mechanics, I would then use the night actions to flip myself, letting my nearly-0-postibg partner cruise through while the surviving townies mislynch each other

[the worst]

I think so. I'll double check. Sorry.

[the worst]

I've gone back through and read through Gyro and GJT's ISOs.

Gyro:
- I buy his saltiness when votes pour on him. I see that more with falsely accused town than with scum that's been busted. Not to say that scum don't get bitter or can't fake it, but it feels pretty genuine and he seems to stay pretty consistent with himself.
- Questioned the Ojoi wagon a fair bit. Can take that one of two ways, he had a genuine town read on her, or he's scum wanting to avoid being on a town wagon. Either's plausible I guess.
- Is kind of OMGUSy. Part of his vote on Faustiv seemed OMGUS, but maybe that was just jokes as well, I don't know. He did seem to float his vote around more on D1 and didn't just park it somewhere or hold it.
- I like most of his D2 reads. Some of them are again a bit OMGUS, but that's not necessarily scummy. But I see where he's coming from on a lot of them.

GJT/Faustiv:
- How scummy is Faustiv? He made 3 posts. One was RVS, the other two were commenting on how much RVS was dragging. It's a bit soft since he seemed to make no effort to take us out of RVS whilst observing that RVS is going a bit long, but I did agree with his observation. When Faustiv bailed, he had 2 votes on him. Is 2 votes on D1 enough to throw in the towel? I really don't know how AI that can be the more I look back at it.
- GJT came in and first order of business seemed to be to distance himself from Faustiv. 321 he says: "See I would say just completely ignore anything that was said before but that appears to not be a lot and if I was in your shoes I would have been looking to lynch Faustiv too. Anyways no need im here now." I just really dislike that entry. Was Faustiv actually lynch-worthy? This feels like pandering to the town or something.
- There's little in the way of town reads and more just a lot of scum reads. Maybe this is just his playstyle. He seems to have some town reads now but a lot of the posts before D2 read to me as "I think these people are scum, but also this person could be scum, and I'm open to thinking these other players are scum". There's just a lot of leaving options open and ultimately it feels like he's looking for someone to lynch more so than looking for scum.
- I know we've gone around in circles on the Ojoi hammer a lot, but I still don't buy it. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we had a solid 3 days left on D1? There wasn't any immediate urgency. I would buy it more if there were like a few hours left and we NEEDED to end the day. But we weren't in that situation? We could have always pushed for whoever would've replaced Ojoi to claim. It's so hard to see that lynch coming from a pro-town place.

Yeah I've convinced myself VOTE: GJT

THAT'S L-1

yeah :/
I kinda blanked on us having 3/3 wagons, I thought the gjt wagon was leading

It's suddenly dawning on me via wagonomics Gjt was probably a better lynch and also my suggestion that Kerset pick the lynch then they claim was probably correct

[the worst]

It's ok though gyro still has a really solid chance of flipping red. They're conversations we can have on D3, it's unlikely I'm eating the nk.

[the worst]

I feel triply guilty because the old classy derphammer is something I've historically done quite a lot as scum. Unfortunately I am very blonde irl and its firmly within my townrange

[the worst]

I know for a fact they won't but still if they're town d3 is gonna be a nightmare. if I do eat a bullet just remember Kerset is town and they're good at LyLo.

[the worst]

lol
anyone against massclaim today?

[the worst]

it's either out them today, or out them tomorrow with the option of an unresolvable cc

[the worst]

Could someone explain how is the worst alive?

should i not be? :{

[the worst]

i'm not claiming until massclaim EOD

[the worst]

ngl i was dreading a fight with scum!rc and kinda just didn't do any rereading - it's probs one of gjt/alexc just haven't decided which yet

[the worst]

ngl i was dreading a fight with scum!rc and kinda just didn't do any rereading - it's probs one of gjt/alexc just haven't decided which yet

Can I ask who you expected to die last night?

I'd rather not answer this yet

[the worst]

The "accidental Hammer" just don't sit right either. I don't wanna tunnel, gonna go back over some ISOs. Just not sure who else I'd rather push currently

I'd be pretty keen on you talking through this a bit more if you wouldn't mind

Do you have a read on anything else I've done this game?

[the worst]

We went through this when I first joined game, felt like you had many pocket attempts. Your vote and comments after on Gyro have not helped. There was plenty of talk of both of us being L-1 I believe you even put me at L-1, could be wrong would have to double check. Kerset gave intention to vote and feels like you just jumped in to save face

^^^can i get some thoughts on this pls

[the worst]

from you

[the worst]

i'll do some maths later

[the worst]

so if we treat this as vanilla 1v4 and let the cop/tracker claim tomorrow, we basically have a >50% chance to win at rand (ideally: we have 2-3 communal townreads to proceed at a 67%+ chance of winning via lynching the outliers)

if we have a cop/tracker with a guilty we win

if we have a cop/tracker with no useful results, they can claim to allow us to work off a POE of 4 people - mostly just saves time and allows us to focus more on slots who aren't TPRs

if we have a cop/tracker with a single clear (psa anyone tracked last night who didn't visit anyone is now CLEARED): they can claim to instantly cut the POE down to 3 people, mechanically (i.e.: we need one correct townread to win the game). if they leave this until LyLo, scum can counterclaim to 1v1 the TPR and reduce the number of effective clears to 0.

[the worst]

what was the slip yday you're talking about?

[the worst]

Would the tracker/cop not have a clear/scum today?

only if they checked pvturist or got blocked ln

[the worst]

How do we know that mafia hasn't figured them out and will pop them tonight

exactly

[the worst]

just getting claiming over and done with also kinda allows us to talk about these ~~ i'd rather not say ~~ things more openly :c

[the worst]

i'm strongly pro massclaim the phase before lylo - the tpr also needs to consider whether or not they're easy to correctly read as the tpr

i have a suspicion our reads are kinda similar

[the worst]

also if we do massclaim I would rather go first

[the worst]

good call
cue o fortuna



if i am the cop/tracker i targeted pvtradianturistbells last night & my n1 result is meaningless

[the worst]

quality pagetop duck, nice work

[the worst]

hahaha i'm impressed you got that far in, choral stuff is kinda hard to stomach

re result: cool - now that you've said that i kinda think everyone should follow our template (or, if they are the TPR, just claim any valuable results :#)

[the worst]

Guessing Alexc also wouldn't have any valuable results sweet
gjt?

[the worst]

Seems to be a brand newbie, best to just ignore them and let the mods do their thing

[the worst]

oh ok
i'll take it
my tpr reads were upside down as fuck but my "i know for certain gyro isn't a tpr" was obviously an attempt to swing the nk onto me


radiantcowbells is basically the scariest player on the site so he was probably phear killed - given pvturist didn't reeeally have a lot of stances it was a kinda optimal kill

[the worst]

now we just wait for JV to get in here and say whether or not they're softing a guilty on alexc

[the worst]

:3

[the worst]

coincidentally the person you were softing a guilty on actually visited the nk LOL

probably yeah, on the balance of probabilities i think you're town. busy today/tonight and tomorrow but i definitely have sunday free for leg work

[the worst]

VOTE: Uncrowned

no questions, no talk
we lynch uncrowded and glhf d2

VOTE: Uncrowned

no questions, no talk
we lynch uncrowded and glhf d2

Agreed

VOTE: Gyro Zeppelli

this guy hard pinging me as scum atm

VOTE: Jacksonvirgo

Touching my boy uncrowned

Actually, I know this is RVS and I know that it's meme time now but I think Gyro is literally scum here with this entrance

either of these are easy lolbusses but i lean weakly against JV's being a bus - felt a lot more earnest the way they were like "ah...oh yeah that's actually scummy..."

just wanna read later d1 and see whether they carried a gyro scumread while pushing elsewhere

[the worst]

gyro ignoring my huge ass size 36 uncrowned vote to vote jv for voting uncrowned is p funny

[the worst]

It's a possible s/s indicator I guess but mostly literally just that it's quite funny

[the worst]

ya for sure

[the worst]

do your thing and get content generated and stuff, i'm gonna do some legwork and jam with alexc hopefully over the weekend

once again i suspect we have three aussies in f5 haha

[the worst]

Gasp
Me too

[the worst]

uncrowned is east coast too <: though we spoke about that in the last game
it's pretty rare adelaideans find each other online! ms has a handful of us!

[the worst]

rly don't think anyone is playing at the manipulative level scumcrowned did that game you're proooooooobably town

[the worst]

oh my god please i can't handle the trolling

[the worst]

fun fact one time I met a dude on RuneScape who went to my high school and shared my first name it was frightening

but it is quite the rarity indeed!!

[the worst]

my name is Tom haha, it's just weird because of how few Adelaide folk you meet online. p small high school too

[the worst]

bad jokes are the best. it still made me smile

[the worst]

Good luck with the election

It's probably Kerset

[the worst]

What are the odds of this lynch being pulled off by x5 townies? What are odds of Thomth/Gyro being the scum team?

Scum!Gjt didn't like, NEED to hammer. The lolhammer is obviously pro scum but it wasn't anything that was totally filthy or incriminating tho bc like both them and Gyro were fairly under the radar

[the worst]

If you're scum with Gyro I'm not sure you needed to out yourself by lolhammering d1

like I agree it's not good but I'm not sure it's as incriminating as Alexc is reading it

[the worst]

Maybe? Or maybe he figured you'd be a hotter topic (or maybe lynched d2) so the investigative check would have been wasted vs. someone like me who was unlikely to be lynched or nightkilled

were not critiquing Alexc's check choice tho we're trying to sort alignments

[the worst]

kinda +1 Kerset ya sorry
I'm not lynching 'til I'm ready to kinda doubledown on a townread
if we lynch before then it'll be whoever is tryna push a lynch early

[the worst]

Sorry. Today didn't go as expected. I can work with a Kerset lynch.

[the worst]

VOTE: Kerset fingers crossed

[the worst]

Gjt you have no reason not to hammer. From your pov this game is in auto.

[the worst]

congratulations guys - well hammered alexc

[the worst]

I think I would have just lolhammered Gjt and hoped for the best, as well

[the worst]

uncrowned or alexcellent are good kill

imagine

Kill:PvtUrist
Block: JV

Think I'll take my chances on that

I actually did that the wrong way round, was confused to hell when kill was announced well block would have been wasted had I gone the other way

not even your reputation this time RC - the mafia gods have spoken and you must die

[the worst]

Votecount 2.05

Gyro Zeppeli (3) -

JacksonVirgo, PvtUrist, Gjt

Gjt (2) -

Gyro Zeppeli, the worst

JacksonVirgo (1) -

Thomth

Not Voting (1) -

Alexcellent

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2019-12-11 15:45:00).

you guys played competing s/s wagons well

[the worst]

i had a similar read and wrote it off for that exact reason. :p

[the worst]

I submitted wrong way round, but was probably a good accident

it was a great accident - i think my death would have been incriminating on you tbh, and RC is always a good nightkill just because

Oh God It's RC Aaahhh!

i also seriously didn't expect to go into d3 being nearly universally pushed and then cop cleared!

[the worst]

Was in 2 minds last night who to kill, had a feeling the worst would instantly vote me, think both had me as scum, but felt had a better chance with Alex

i think you had the right read - i'm a little bit busy irl atm

i was recently in a 3p lylo with {jv, scum, me} and wasn't CLEARED there but was very obviously town. i did heaps of work and wifomed myself out of being correct and hammered JV incorrectly

if i came into this 3p i probably would've done some quick wagonomics/skimmed important parts of the game then 90% of the time voted you

i didn't expect Alexc to vote quite so quickly either!

[the worst]

going far in massive games is always really exhausting yeah - when you gotta take a step back you gotta take a step back.

i hope we see more of you around MS. it was really fun playing with you.

[the worst]

But I also got some major stuff wrong. Thought TW was playing sort of null on purpose because he was a PR, turns out that was wrong lol

Bahaha I wish. Just spread a little thin this week. I played my best just less energy or time!