Newbie 2005 [Game Over!]

[votato]

thanks. I'll catch up later today.

[votato]

oh god why are there multiple people without avatars? i honestly cant even see you as people without avatars. just scum.

[votato]

Spoiler: my catch-up

52 (not known) is pretty bad. youre being way too aggressive and picking up on tiny little things on page 3, you dont have the context to be this confident
53 (egix) meh, this seems more likely to come from scum trying to push attention to a TvT (town vs town) fight rather than genuine scumhunting
64 (gobbles) i like the vote, it doesnt feel like an RVS vote. but is the reasoning what i outlined ^?
80 (snowblaze) dont like this at all. also worth noting that i disagree with not known about quicklynching.
94 (gobbles) i like this post. but, I am scum. are you gonna quicklynch me now?
97 (pi) decent readlist. you should have been able to clearly see that my slot was town by then though. atarashi is very sneaky and im shocked that he didnt have you fooled. also i disagree about your egix read as mentioned above.
116 (gobbles) whoa dere. this is shockingly bad. it doesnt line up with anything youd said to this point. you're voting aloratom because you "also find Aloratom scummy." What kind of reasoning is that???
122-124 (aloratom) why do you feel the need to only fluff post?
160 (beansi) you literally are wagoning. congrats, youve moved from the null pile to the scum pile for your vote and then this follow-up.
170 (not known) while this case is pretty decent, if you're so concerned about aloratom not producing content, a hammer isnt gonna help. why not ask questions and try to draw out a response? bad intent to hammer. scummy.
177 (gobbles) this is a bit better from gobbles, but still: more reasoning would be nice
aloratom, your posts are still pretty fluffy. why not give some reads or do something.
181 (beansi) yikes. 182 is just as bad.
ugh page 8 was a slog. jeez.
194 (beansi) this seems like a pretty inorganic progression. do you still scum read aloratom?

all caught up.

[votato]

52

(not known) is pretty bad

. youre being way too aggressive and picking up on tiny little things on page 3, you dont have the context to be this confident
53 (egix) meh, this seems more likely to come from scum trying to push attention to

a TvT (town vs town) fight

rather than genuine scumhunting

all caught up.

Hmm intriguing. Was there something in the Piis v NK interaction itself that made you think TvT though?

no. the interaction was bad. trying to egg them on seems worse. i think pi is townish. not known is scumish

[votato]

In my catch up i posed questions to a number of you

[votato]

VOTE: gobbles. not necessarily my top scum read, but as an SE i expect better play, plus i think this wagon is going to be the most informative right now based on associations. gobbles, please address my points about you from my catch-up.

@beansi @not known @egix you all have things to address too.

i dont like how almost all of snowblaze's posts are fluff or iioa. shes actively lurking.

[votato]

@gobbles 196
@egix 199

[votato]

you could ask literally any question. get aloratom to elaborate, give reads, offer thoughts. press the person to contribute, especially in a newbie game. hammering a newbie who isnt contributing as much as youd want is counterproductive. then he'd never contribute.

[votato]

i have some experience with aloratom on an alt, and I don't think that the playstyle is particularly different here. By pressing a fluffposter for reads not only do you force him/her to contribute, but you also gain information useful post-flip.

[votato]

you said your vote on egix was "mainly cheeky." what part wasnt? it isnt specifically that you're being a bad SE. its that because you're an SE and from what i know about you, youre good at mafia, then i'd expect more coherence and a better thought process. as for your vote on aloratom, you started off asking some questions, but your stated scumreads were all on other people, and then out of the blue you vote aloratom without explaining it.

[votato]

i dont understand that last NK post. I could go for either the beansi or NK wagon, but in the interest of parity, ill UNVOTE: gobbles, and instead VOTE: Not Known

[votato]

i dont understand that last NK post. I could go for either the beansi or NK wagon, but in the interest of parity, ill UNVOTE: gobbles, and instead VOTE: Not Known

What do you not understand?

the words.

[votato]

Am asking you to elaborate on [post[69[/post].

Do you think there's scum among the players opposing pi's lynch?

Being on or off that lynch is not a good reason to scumread or townread someone currently. I wanted to know the reasons why they don`t vote but at this point the question won`t help anymore.

I'm also unsure why aloratom has three votes at this stage. Why exactly is this? Going back to reread.

It sounds like your current read on me didn't really develop organically.

I missed this the first time but what`s the intent behind this post? It is obvious that the read didn`t show up on first sight but .... this post looks like it is trying to push the reader into the idea that not developing that read on first sight is bad, without stating anything non-obvious. That`s behaviour I associate with scum.
VOTE: Aloratom

these words.

[votato]

where was it stated before? youd prefer if it were stated as "your read on me developed inorganically" or something?

[votato]

where was it stated before? youd prefer if it were stated as "your read on me developed inorganically" or something?

[votato]

is the "your" in that post not beansi?

[votato]

is the "your" in that post not beansi?

Beansi said they were going to re-read.
Then Aloratom said the read didn`t develop organically.
Where`s the difference, except in negativity?

beansi hadnt stated a read though.

[votato]

yeah why change your vote there? and why change it to NK?

[votato]

but why move your vote? what changed?

[votato]

This is more of a prodge than anything. I'll catch up tomorrow, but votato, did you conclude anything out of your questioning NotKnown over 249?

NotKnown -- Is that post still part of your scum read on me?

no. i still have no idea what NK was talking about.

[votato]

what sort of venereal diseases do they have in italy?

[votato]

VOTE: italianoVD. did not like that catch up. this slot has not gotten any townier

[votato]

AI = Alignment Indicative.
NAI = Not Alignment Indicative

to link to a post:

Code: Select all

[post]328[/post]

becomes:
328

[votato]

as it turns out you cannot link to the post you are currently making though. itll work now
328

[votato]

Also could you tell me what you meant when you said

“did not like that catch up. this slot has not gotten any townier”

The first part I get, I don’t get the second part.

i scum read beansi, your predecessor. i still think you're scum now.

[votato]

Do we vote for slots or for people? That doesn’t really make sense to me. Why even have a differentiation amongst characters if we are just filling slots?

you vote the person, but the guy you replaced had the same role as you, and the vote carries over.

[votato]

italiiano's catch up had kinda poor reasoning for the pi vote. i like the thinking on NK, but it seems like he is just sheeping the two major wagons. there isnt much original thought there. The reads since then are better, but still a bit wishy-washy. it could be that italiano just needs to settle in a bit more, but im going to remain skeptical of that slot for now.

[votato]

Egix what don't you like about my vote? I could compromise on nk here but at this point I'd prefer to lynch ivd, or maybe egix

[votato]

haha after that last vote count i was gonna say italiano is kinda clear because if he were scum he could just move his vote to another wagon and tie things up. What does he do in his next post?

[votato]

my solve atm is italiano and egix. That vote count really threw me off because they weren't on a counterwagon together. Now they are though

[votato]

the reasoning behind the vote move is really poor. Sheeping not even my top scum read

[votato]

uh i think if you look in my catch-up post there are a few things i point out about egix. their recent interactions also point to them being scum together. they are both independently scummy and they have interactions that seem SvS to me.

[votato]

after re-reading homura's ISO, i dont really see any doctor tells. This kill probably means that homura's reads were good, because it seems strange otherwise to off a low-activity player. that suggests that we should be taking a close look at aloratom, pi, and NK15. as it happens, all three of them were also on the italiano wagon.

[votato]

egix is still scummy, but i think we should lynch from the people on yesterday's wagon. in particular, i think we should lynch within the people on the wagon who were also scumread by pi.

[votato]

in particular, i think we should lynch within the people on the wagon who were also scumread by pi.

This really isn't all that subtle.

im not trying to be subtle. I've stated explicitly what i think the lynchpool for today should be. and didnt i go back and say that i didnt see any interactions between egix and italiano as scummy? im keep getting this game confused with another one im in.

[votato]

No, you didn't, unless I missed it. You've said that egix is scummy, but I can't figure out why.

ah ok. i tried to do this analysis in the other game. it didnt work out for some reason. now it all makes sense. I'm heading out now, but ill go back and do this analysis later. if i forget, please remind me.

[votato]

after re-reading homura's ISO, i dont really see any doctor tells. This kill probably means that homura's reads were good, because it seems strange otherwise to off a low-activity player. that suggests that we should be taking a close look at aloratom, pi, and NK15. as it happens, all three of them were also on the italiano wagon.

i think this post hints at the fact that there might just be upwards of three people i'd like to lynch in today. which one do you think i was focusing on aloratom?

[votato]

after re-reading homura's ISO, i dont really see any doctor tells. This kill probably means that homura's reads were good, because it seems strange otherwise to off a low-activity player. that suggests that we should be taking a close look at aloratom, pi, and NK15. as it happens, all three of them were also on the italiano wagon.

i think this post hints at the fact that there might just be upwards of three people i'd like to lynch in today. which one do you think i was focusing on aloratom?

egix is still scummy, but i think we should lynch from the people on yesterday's wagon. in particular, i think we should lynch within the people on the wagon who were also scumread by pi.

I read that that post along with 426. Of the three, pi scum read one, NotKnown.

ah i see the confusion. it arises from me being a dumbass. we should lynch inside the people on homura's wagon, and also inside the people homura scumread. not the people pi scumread, that would be silly.

[votato]

im still a dumbass. the people on the lynchwagon and the people Homura scumread. third time is the charm?

[votato]

im still a dumbass. the people on the lynchwagon and the people Homura scumread. third time is the charm?

That actually makes sense. Checking through Homura’s ISO, that would be piisirrational and Aloratom.

I’m annoyed that I can’t get a proper read on pi - whenever I’m convinced they’re scum they do something towny and whenever I start to think they’re town they do something scummy.

As for Aloratom, I’m fairly null, possibly with a slight scum lean. This is increased by the possible associatives with pi. An Aloratom/pi team actually makes a lot of sense.

uh i think it includes NK as well.

[votato]

snowblaze, i also defended pi. why am i not scum?

[votato]

hmm i thought i was pretty clear that in the pi vs NK interaction i thought that if there was scum it was NK, thus effectively defending pi

[votato]

VOTE: NK
pretending to analyze and case, but just continues to tunnel the same slot as yesterday, plus doesnt actually provide any analysis.
as for me scumreading egix but not voting there: my gut tells me its egix, but my mechanical understanding of what we ought to do here tells me to vote on wagon, and in particular within homura's reads.

[votato]

im still a dumbass. the people on the lynchwagon and the people Homura scumread. third time is the charm?

That actually makes sense. Checking through Homura’s ISO, that would be piisirrational and Aloratom.

I’m annoyed that I can’t get a proper read on pi - whenever I’m convinced they’re scum they do something towny and whenever I start to think they’re town they do something scummy.

As for Aloratom, I’m fairly null, possibly with a slight scum lean. This is increased by the possible associatives with pi. An Aloratom/pi team actually makes a lot of sense.

uh i think it includes NK as well.

I looked through the ISO again, and couldn't find anything that clearly implied Homura scumread NK15.

VOTE: NK
pretending to analyze and case, but just continues to tunnel the same slot as yesterday, plus doesnt actually provide any analysis.
as for me scumreading egix but not voting there: my gut tells me its egix, but my mechanical understanding of what we ought to do here tells me to vote on wagon, and in particular within homura's reads.

Explain why you have a different opinion here.
The analysis doesnt help me in convincing you... but if you insist:
The top wagons were TvT. Earlier, piisirrational seemed to be a possibility, too.
Despite this, the only person off both wagons is dead town.
This suggests an above average chance that piisirrational is scum.
And no, what you are suggesting is

deeply flawed

. It is perfectly acceptable to scumread someone because of Day 1 interactions only.

how is my opinion different in those posts?

[votato]

eh i just reread egix's entire iso. didnt take long. very short. no real analysis. very lurky. seems to be on the major wagons and doesnt seem to be all that interested in figuring out which people are the scummiest.

[votato]

Sorry for neglecting to post here. This game is very dead. Where is nk15 and why is he lurking?

[votato]

Ignore that last line I hadn't read 477....

NK and Votato (No matter what they are scum) Are town.

Egix looks like a policy at the moment.

I'll catch up later. I"m looking forward to Midari's catch up when she's back. I hope that breaks the game open a bit.

I'm sorry its not going to be as good as you want and won't live up to your standards. Its been that kind of night.


I will say that Snow and Egix aren't the same alignment.

Piii I have a bit of an idea how NK plays this is normal for him. I wouldn't stress about him even then there are others that stick out a hair more.

I'd believe its a Piii & Snow. I'm not going to accident hammer this so I'm going to do the next logical thing
VOTE: Snow

nk and i are scum no matter what but we are town? What makes snow and egix different alignments?

[votato]

i mean i wish i were scum

[votato]

mmm i think most likely its snow and NK.

[votato]

although i think snow is less scummy, i think snow might be more likely to flip scum and also more likely to give us good associations.

[votato]

It's simple. Nk has done more obviously scummy things. But town often does scummy things too. And i think snowblaze has been more opportunistic and manipulative. Also, I'm voting nk because that's where the wagon is. Happy to swap if people are down.

[votato]

VOTE: snowblaze is not made up. I'm just not paying enough attention.

[votato]

VOTE: nk15

[votato]

VOTE: snowblaze is not made up. I'm just not paying enough attention.

I am pretty sure that this did not come from scum.

wow amazing. You correctly identified me as town using a post with no ai content. Plus the vcs you just posted are damning. Aloratom is town. Egix could still be scum but we lynch you first.

[votato]

VOTE: Snowblaze

Why did you not declare intent before doing this?

Choo chooo my votes gonna go on egix. But I like to hear first

How so? I'm bemused that you would side with the person who tunnelled the tracker.

this seems like a pure wifom argument. although i think NK is clearly snowblaze's partner, it could be that NK was just pocketed. I'm willing to lynch egix today, egix is still also scummy. I suspect that if we lynch egix today, and he flips town, that i die tonight. in that case i humbly submit that tomorrow is a NK lynch.

[votato]

although i think NK is clearly snowblaze's partner, it could be that NK was just pocketed.

Who do you think NotKnown may have been pocketed by?

snowblaze. they were clearly on the same page on a lot of stuff, so either they were both scum doing a poor job of distancing, or NK was pocketed and sheeping scum by accident. the former is the simpler explanation, but the latter may be equally as likely.

[votato]

I think it's probably NotKnown.

VOTE: NotKnown

L-1

why?

[votato]

I think he's more likely scum than Midari, and I still don't see your case on Egix.

why am i not scum? are you just voting for NK because of PoE? if so, you should have mentioned everyone else who is alive.

[votato]

I think he's more likely scum than Midari, and I still don't see your case on Egix.

why am i not scum? are you just voting for NK because of PoE? if so, you should have mentioned everyone else who is alive.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I hate when people start saying you should have or you shouldn't have without explaining why. If you have some sort of special knowledge, share it.

UNVOTE:

nono, why did you vote? was it based on a PoE or a scumread? if so, either explain why everyone else is town or why you think NK is scum. why have you now unvoted?

[votato]

its just that your 573 suggests that he's mostly scum because you're less confident about other people, suggesting its by PoE. but you didnt include everyone in said PoE. and now your follow-up contradicts the PoE by saying he was a scum read all game. i guess maybe tomorrow ill go through your iso and read your progression on him.

[votato]

Votato isn't scum. If they are its a very bad showing and quite a gambit as I feel they semi want to be lynched today.

definitely dont want to be lynched today... what gives you that impression?

[votato]

ok, just did a deep dive through snowblaze's ISO. its time to lynch NK 15. snowblaze was consistently trying to push wagons and pressure away from NK15. the ISO also completely clears alora, pi and egix (and italiano, RIP). There is a very light clear on midari i think, and not a whole lot about me. The guilty on NK comes from snowblaze both pushing pressure away from NK, but also stating a townread without a strong reason ever given and stating that it was "too early" in day 1 to lynch NK 15, while not saying anything of the sort when the wagon move to pi shortly thereafter. snowblaze consistently asked questions searching for reasons to scumread people, and often sheeped scumreads on egix, pi, and alora, but never came up with original reasons to vote them. There really wasnt much interaction between snowblaze and either myself or midari. take a look and tell me what you all think.


actually i might have misread, i could be backwards on pi. ill take another look tomorrow

[votato]

the ISO also completely clears alora, pi and egix

and often sheeped scumreads on egix, pi, and alora, but never came up with original reasons to vote them.

No, STOP. That`s incredibly bad reasoning.
Egix isn`t cleared by far. Snowblaze never voted for them. Do you see any real push on Egix? No? Then that is actually indicative of scum trying to distance themselves from their partner without ever voting there. Alora seems to be cleared because they didnt go away after L-1(although I am not completely sure about that. pi is dead. But the ISO does not clear Egix at all!

tomorrow ill look again and quote some posts. but theres a consistent effort to protect you and push at the others. why dont you go through the iso and find suspects you think are more likely based on interactions, or interactions that clear you?

[votato]

hmm why am i less likely than midari or tom? I think you're the only one who is implicated, egix is slightly clear and tom is super duper clear

[votato]

Just vote Egix tomorrow.
And remember: Someone being sus according to scum without any vote or other serious push... thats NOT town indicative, it is SCUM indicative.

yet you agree that the iso implicates you more than anyone, so whats your point?

[votato]

yet you agree that the iso implicates you more than anyone, so whats your point?

It`s a different type of implication - it being wrong does not make the egix implication wrong. So when you know you were wrong with me being scum you still should vote egix tomorrow.

could you make your case against egix? its really easy for scum who have lost hope to weakly point a finger. like why arent you fighting against your lynch here?

[votato]

i mean this game is pretty simple. we lynch NK today, and if NK is town, then scum kinda has to kill midari here, since he's the only locktown. that leaves egix myself and alora for lylo which i think should be solvable.

[votato]

you guys are the worst

[votato]

i mean let him claim and make a defense if he wants

[votato]

awh fuck yeah! i was really really really hoping scum would shoot midari. thats why i said the slot was locktown. 90% sure its egix, but i feel like due dilligence is needed. i was really unsure about midari, and really sure about alora being town.

[votato]

as proof that i would have killed alora: if you look at my posts other than the one post where i randomly say midari is the only locktown (that everyone rightly responded to with confusion), all my posts have alora as the towniest player. there's no way i kill anyone other than alora if im town. i get that it opens up wifom, but at this point alora you've seen enough of my game to be able to get a read on me here i think.

[votato]

[votato]

Egix, what did you mean by votato playing fancy? I think I know, but I want to be sure.

Stating that Midari was locktown when she actually wasn't, which, if votato is town, was an attempt to trick scum into shooting her.
The fact that Midari still died, despite the ploy being fairly obvious, makes me think votato is scum pretending to gambit, perhaps to give himself cover for not dying in the night.

why would i die in the night? you just said you find me scummy. scum wants to kill townie players. if anything its mildly suspicious that alora is still alive.

[votato]

@Aloratom I'll also ask you this, what do you think of the two people who I'm focusing on more today (Snowblaze and NK15)? Do you think they're town or scum and why?

I still scum read NotKnown because of his Day 1 play principally. I'm getting a gut feeling that Snowblaze may be scum, but I can't point to anything yet.

@Aloratom @Egix96 So since you both stated that you had a “gut feeling” that Snowblaze is scum, if it came down to it, would you lynch her?

I don't know about egix, but I'm more comfortable with going NotKnown right now. Like you say, Snowblaze is a gut read, and NotKnown has a record that can be pointed to. Egix can't articulate a SR on her, and I'm not sure I can either.

hmm i just re-read alora's iso. didnt like it. these two posts in particular stick out. alora really didnt have much to say about snowblaze, but here is some weak pressure. alora also didnt really vote much.

[votato]

Votato isn't scum. If they are its a very bad showing and quite a gambit as I feel they semi want to be lynched today.

So are the options today just between Egix and NK?

relevant posts from midari

[votato]

Egix, what did you mean by votato playing fancy? I think I know, but I want to be sure.

Stating that Midari was locktown when she actually wasn't, which, if votato is town, was an attempt to trick scum into shooting her.
The fact that Midari still died, despite the ploy being fairly obvious, makes me think votato is scum pretending to gambit, perhaps to give himself cover for not dying in the night.

why would i die in the night? you just said you find me scummy. scum wants to kill townie players. if anything its mildly suspicious that alora is still alive.

You running a gambit calling Midari lock Town in order to get scum to kill midari doesn't make sense to me coming from you. It seems to me there has to be more to it. I think that's what's egix is getting at.

why not? i was least sure about midari.

[votato]

yep, i was unsure about midari. in fact, i was the least sure about midari out of everyone. the most unsure. the unsurest. even more unsurester than that perhaps

[votato]

NVM. You were least sure. Not at least sure.

:^)

[votato]

That's the spot I was least sure about also, but I think that's beside the point. I don't know how that fits in with your trying to get her killed.

i wanted a winnable lylo. town!midari would have been an asset. thats why scum wound up killing her. but scum!her would have probably won, and so I'm happy to compromise and have a clearer picture of the game. (sorry midari <3). But actually the real reason midari died is that she was the second most obvious town. and the most obviously town player was in fact scum. case coming tomorrow. I'm pretty sure that this best explains the night kill and alora's play all game. and it also explains the special treatment snowblaze gave to alora by constantly stating scumreads but never hard pushing.

[votato]

what about that interaction looks wrong? dont forget, half the interaction is you

[votato]

why does it matter now? i can try to look back and see what i thought was scummy, but i dont see how itll help since i was wrong and if im scum id just make something up now

[votato]

egix why does the night kill implicate me? and midari would have probably won as scum due to being hard to read.

[votato]

but im not smart enough not to?

[votato]

scum!me kills alora here. the most widely townread player.

[votato]

Votato, looking at Midari and your interactions, it's difficult to believe that she was your next in line after NotKnown, that you "were really unsure" of her. I think this is your only interaction with her:

Votato isn't scum. If they are its a very bad showing and quite a gambit as I feel they semi want to be lynched today.

definitely dont want to be lynched today... what gives you that impression?

And this is what you had to say about Egix yesterday, which is indicative of your read of him all game:

this seems like a pure wifom argument. although i think NK is clearly snowblaze's partner, it could be that NK was just pocketed. I'm willing to lynch egix today, egix is still also scummy. I suspect that if we lynch egix today, and he flips town, that i die tonight. in that case i humbly submit that tomorrow is a NK lynch.

So at that point, it looks like you were thinking it was NotKnown and then if not NotKnown, Egix, speculating that if Egix was lynched and flipped Town, NotKnown would kill you. Nothing about Midari at all.

Then later on you said something about Egix being slightly clear after you reviewed Snowblaze's ISO, but you didn't explain that. Nothing in your posting indicated that Midari was a scum read for you, let alone someone you were "really unsure about."

So it's one thing to plant that WTF moment at the end of the day yesterday, and it's another to open today saying, "scum played right into my hands by killing the player I led them to," and then defend it saying, "if I were scum I would have killed alora."

youre right that i didnt post much about midari. i was having trouble sorting the slot, so didnt have much to say. my lack of words indicates that i didnt have strong opinions, or i would have shared them. not a lot of posts really stood out to me there. i didnt scumread midari, midari was a null read. midari doesnt seem to have been locktown by any stretch, i dont see the motivation for that kill. you were the obvious kill choice, and the fact that you are still here somewhat suggests that you are scum.

[votato]

hello?

[votato]

hmm please dont do so yet. if im gonna lose i at least want to have the right solve.

[votato]

why do you think tom is town?

[votato]

VOTE: aloratom

[votato]

ill explain later, assuming im right

[votato]

Yep, i solved it. Home now but have to take care of things. Ill try to get on in an hour or two and explain. Short version, snowblaze was constantly saying how alora was scummy. In fact, it was the only consistent read. Yesterday i assumed snow was pushing for a mislynch on a wagon that never formed. But everyone kept saying that alora was super town. It makes way more sense to kill the consensus town read than the town read i stated right before night that people questioned. Alora shouldnt be alive right now as town. More explanation to come

[votato]

and yes, i realize its a 180 from what i said on day 3. Lylo is the best time to re evaluate. And everyone should do so.

[votato]

ok egix, im here. im working on fully explaining, but feel free to ask questions while i do, ill keep an eye on the thread. also, since i've now solved the game my ego will be intact, so if you really feel the need to hammer me, you may. at the same time, please dont cuz you'll lose and if you dont hear me out you will feel pretty bad in a few moments

[votato]

ok. heres a lot of snowblaze's posts. they almost all mention that alora is scummy, yet not a single solid read is developed on anyone else. some other votes are cast, but despite voting aloratom, snowblaze actually attacks some of the other votes on the wagon, causing it to fall apart.

Spoiler:

I hate timezones... going to sleep just when the thread opens is annoying.

Anyway, I exist. I’ve played five games on another site and completed one here (though I’d prefer to pretend that never happened!), and I think I have a vague idea what I’m doing.

Piisirrational is really pinging my radar at the moment, for reasons others have explained, but I think I’d like to see more from others before I vote there.

VOTE: Aloratom - got anything more to say than hello?

right away votes alora. funny coincidence, except the vote stays way past RVS, including through a wagon that reaches L-1. the whole time snowblaze keeps talking about how scum would never bus on day 1.

't think that either piis or NK have made a particularly good first impression, but based on 10 and 19 I don't think that they are partnered.

Who has higher scum equity to you?

VOTE: Not Known 15
This by a slight margin.

I disagree on that one. NK15 seems a bit overly keen to lynch pi before looking at anyone else, but that's not necessarily a bad thing considering how incredibly scummy pi looks right now. The only reason I'm not voting there is because I want to hear more from others first.

Speaking of which, I'm fairly comfortable with my vote where it is: Aloratom has yet to post anything relevant to solving the game.

let me pick on this one person who isnt gamesolving, and then repeatedly talk about how scum dont bus unless they have to.

My first instinct would be either Egix or Aloratom: I could definitely see a scum partner taking a stance of “They’re both scummy, but I think NK15 is slightly more so than pi” or alternatively “yeah, I can see where you’re coming from but I wouldn’t call them obvscum”.

That being said, I don’t really feel like there’s enough information to get a clear associative read this soon, and I’m probably horribly wrong!

really odd how both the people mentioned are now alive in lylo. that might just be a coincidence though.

My first instinct would be either Egix or Aloratom: I could definitely see a scum partner taking a stance of “They’re both scummy, but I think NK15 is slightly more so than pi” or alternatively “yeah, I can see where you’re coming from but I wouldn’t call them obvscum”.

That being said, I don’t really feel like there’s enough information to get a clear associative read this soon, and I’m probably horribly wrong!

That's an interesting take. If you think I'm scum, and if I actually was scum, why would my scum partner be taking the stance of thinking I'm scummy but NK15 is moreso? It honestly looks like I'll be more likely than not getting lynched on D1 because of the resistance being set up by so many people here so I think it would stand to reason that my scum partner would want to distance or bus me in this case.

Well, I'd say it's more low-key distancing at the moment: defending you but leaving the option open to bus if they need to later. It's still early enough for things to potentially turn around for someone else to be lynched, and scum would want to avoid bussing their partner day one if at all possible.

Could you clarify what you mean by "the resistance being set up by so many people here"?

scum dont bus, dont look at me and alora as partners!

I'm still not sure about the whole scum tell thing with pi. I'd say Egix, Beansi and Homura seem slightly Townie so far. But there's not much to go on yet.

Can you explain the first two of those?

Egix's 60 is a good post slowing NotKnown down -- I think scum would be okay with a fast lynch. Beansi seems genuinely confused/intrigued about the whole scum tell read on pi and is reserving judgment I think.

But presumably scum wouldn't be okay with a fast lynch on their partner, so your town lean on Egix would be conditional on pi also being town?

scum would never ever be ok with their partner being fastlynched, definitely dont look at me after my partner dies early on day 1!! (the wagon fell apart, but i kinda feel like the plan was to bus alora day 1).

Also not sure I like the above post. I agree with the reasoning behind it, but going from "wait, why is this guy being wagoned?" to "actually, he seems really suspicious, I'm joining the wagon" as soon as I ask you about it is suspicious imo.

see here snowblaze is shading the vote that put alora to L-1 despite being on the wagon and liking the reasoning. if theres a good reason for a vote then the vote isnt scummy.

@pi, who do you think is scum other than me? And is that by associatives with me, or individual scumminess, or both? Also, could you explain how I was "driving" the Aloratom wagon?

@votato, can you explain your scumread of Egix? I haven't really seen anything strongly AI either way from him, so I'm not sure I get where you're coming from on that one.

i cant formulate any of my own reads except on my scumbuddy, so im just gonna call my scumbuddy scum and ask other people to provide reasons to have reads on other people

@pi and @NK: suppose the other is town. Who is scum then?

@NK, who do you think is pi’s partner?

i really cant formulate reads on anyone except alora!

Me and pi? That would imply we've been bussing each other for the whole of the phase, which seems improbable to say the least. Why would scum!pi push scum!me in this position instead of trying to mislynch NK15 and head to LyLo?

again, bussing is definitely NOT a thing that happens. dont look at the people i scumread, they cant be scum with me.

It’s not whether we

could

bus each other, it’s whether we’d

want to

. And I can’t really see the motivation for a hypothetical me/pi scum team to bus that hard when there was a mislynch opportunity.

@Aloratom and @Egix, can you please find some evidence to back up your gut feelings that I’m scum? It’s day two, surely there’s more to go on than gut by now.

again, there's no way we would bus, also everyone else needs to share reads since i have nothing except that alora is scum!

[votato]

Thought I'd check in before I left to see if the game was over. I'm happy I did. VOTE: votato

why would the game be over? funny how you drop in to place a vote but not to argue anything or say anything meaningful. clearly you're watching the thread but hoping to coast until egix votes me and you can swoop in.

[votato]

if you look at alora's posts today, they consist entirely of making statements about things, bringing stuff up, but without making any real attempt at analysis or gamesolving. alora doesnt claim to have an answer, and doesnt seem to care to find an answer. alora just wants us each to think the other is scum.

[votato]

Egix, what did you mean by votato playing fancy? I think I know, but I want to be sure.

btw this was the post that really got my gears grinding. it really comes off as scum looking to egg a townie on to a scumread, and someone with TMI trying to sound like a normal person... kinda felt like this scene from 30 rock

[votato]

anyway egix, if that doesnt convince you i can go through and do some legwork on alora's iso too. but i think that should be a sufficient case

[votato]

VOTE: aloratom

Yes, I would like to see the case there.

I'll be wrapped up for the next several hours.

This is me not hammering.

Thought I'd check in before I left to see if the game was over. I'm happy I did. VOTE: votato

oh most damning of all is this sequence. I was on mobile before and didnt see it for what it is. after my vote, from town!alora's POV, either I'm scum and therefore he may as well vote me and cross it up, or I'm town in which case he may as well vote *someone* (probably me) because the game ends as soon as egix sees the thread. Also, town!anyone who gets voted in lylo will freak out, because scum can quickhammer. the calmness of alora there is really super duper proof that alora is scum.

[votato]

ok egix, im here. im working on fully explaining, but feel free to ask questions while i do, ill keep an eye on the thread. also, since i've now solved the game my ego will be intact, so if you really feel the need to hammer me, you may. at the same time, please dont cuz you'll lose and if you dont hear me out you will feel pretty bad in a few moments

Tbh I would feel worse if I voted Alora and it was wrong, because then that would mean I was right at the start of the Day, but let myself be swayed.

ok but read my posts and see if you think alora isnt scum... if you dont think so, then you should vote to win not based on your ego. i just lost a game in lylo (treestump express) because everyone generally scumread one player, but everyone decided to vote the less scummy person largely for ego reasons. vote for who you think is scum, not for whatll make you feel better.

[votato]

VOTE: aloratom

Yes, I would like to see the case there.

I'll be wrapped up for the next several hours.

This is me not hammering.

Thought I'd check in before I left to see if the game was over. I'm happy I did. VOTE: votato

oh most damning of all is this sequence. I was on mobile before and didnt see it for what it is. after my vote, from town!alora's POV, either I'm scum and therefore he may as well vote me and cross it up, or I'm town in which case he may as well vote *someone* (probably me) because the game ends as soon as egix sees the thread. Also, town!anyone who gets voted in lylo will freak out, because scum can quickhammer. the calmness of alora there is really super duper proof that alora is scum.

I've returned home and skimmed what I missed. I'm not going to respond to everything tonight, but I will respond to this quickly.

Votato, you'd have me panic vote in this situation? You'd have me vote for a possibly Town!votato and then have a possibly scum!egix come in and end the game. Or you'd have me vote for a possibly Town!egix and then have a possibly scum!votato come in and end the game. That doesn't make sense to me. Either way is bad news. The more measured play is to signal to a hopefully Town!egix that I'm going to be busy for the day -- please don't do anything rash, and hope that he isn't mafia. As it happened, he isn't, as I discovered when I checked before I left, and he didn't. Voting *someone* in that scenario really doesn't jibe with the way I think. It doesn't sound like a smart way to go about it.

And, no, I wasn't monitoring the thread as you asserted somewhere else. I had something to do today that kept me away from devices; I returned home about 90 minutes ago.

its not a panic vote. let me walk you through it. pretend you're town for a minute. because you're town, you arent sure whether im scum, or whether egix is. i vote you. that means there are two scenarios:
1) im scum, so when egix logs on, he sees my vote and does nothing, not knowing whether you're town. your vote can be safely placed on me.
2) im town, so when egix logs on, he sees my vote and hammers you, ending the game and resulting in a scum win. your vote can safely be placed on me since scum!egix can already win.
not knowing whether we are in scenario 1 or 2, town!you is freaked out because you see a vote on someone you know is town, so either town is about to lose or you're about to have confirmation that I'm scum. you're scared knowing town is one vote away from losing the game. Your calm reaction of "ok ill come evaluate later" suggests that you knew that no hammer was coming: before egix even confirmed that he is town, you already knew that egix was town. that can only mean one thing: you're scum.

instead we live in a world where

[votato]

oh whoops, ignore the last line. and pretend that post has spacing so it looks better

[votato]

oh whoops, ignore the last line. and pretend that post has spacing so it looks better

I'm curious as to what you were gonna put there though.

==

Alora: Do you have a good completed town game I could look at?

uh i wound up putting that thought above... its the part about the world where he's scum

[votato]

are you seriously not convinced yet? what more could you possibly need? i made a strong case and then he scumslipped

[votato]

Trackers cannot get clears, certainly not while there are multiple mafia alive

[votato]

except that this assumes that a)pi tracked snow, which there isnt anything to suggest; b) snow visited alora with a non-killing action and, c)pi saw snow visit alora, assumed that snow was scum pre-flip (remember that post came on day 2, which means all the night actions would have had to happen night 1); and then d) pi assumed that alora was town because alora got visited by scum.

C and D are the biggest logical leaps that means that this isnt a clear. pi simply had a townread on alora.

[votato]

egix fair enough. you're still assuming a whole lot for alora to be town there. mcuh more likely is that he simply had no result and had an ordinary townread on alora, just like the rest of us.

alora, as for your response, it doesnt matter which way the bussing happened. the point is simply that snow kept saying that scum would never bus day 1, while at the same time doing a whole lot to distance from you, including pushing your wagon to L-1. after getting the wagon to L-1 snow actually did also attack the wagon and helped to break it down. and my point was not that snow didnt ask questions of you. my point is that snow failed to ever have reads on anyone except you. you got special treatment being a consistent scumread.

[votato]

its ok, seems like the rest of us are lazy too

[votato]

a few more reasons that aloratom is scum:

1) going out of his way to use big words. while fancy language is acceptable, and none of the words are that complex, words like "tacit" and "asinine" are not part of people's everyday vernacular. Alora typically uses simple language, and is not a heavy analytical player from whom you might expect that sort of style.
2) twisting my words. alora keeps harping back to this thing about how scum would never bus day 1. first of all, they wound up not bussing, because snowblaze was able to make the alora wagon fall apart. second, when a scum player repeatedly tells you that something would never happen, that probably means they are doing it and dont want you to pay attention to it.
3) a really long list of questions that i never answered. except most of the quoted posts are either rhetorical questions or not questions at all. some of them i did answer. almost all of those posts refer to a single question: why did i scumread egix and italiano early on. I've sorta addressed that. There were a few posts from each of them that struck me as scummy, which i mentioned in my initial catch-up, and i got the vibe that they could be scumpartners based on their interactions. it really doesnt matter though, since i was wrong. you continuously going back to rehash a non-issue from day 1 rather than addressing any of my case on you is more proof that you're scum.

egix, if you still arent convinced that alora is scum here, i dont know what to tell you. think about this though. if im scum here, and yesterday i say alora is locktown, and everyone agrees, then in what world do i not simply kill alora? in a world where i dont kill alora, why would i ever switch to pushing on alora, rather than just convincing alora that you are scum, since there was plenty of suspicion around you. the simple fact that alora is alive is all the evidence you should need to know that alora is scum. alora also scumslipped today. hard. the choice you face isnt all that complicated. you can either vote someone who has associations with scum that suggest possible scumbuddy, who scumslipped, and who no rational scumteam would ever leave alive for this lylo, or you can vote someone who pushed for a scum lynch (alora said such bussing would never happen), has no associations with scum, and who has actually done some scumhunting this game. the choice is yours, but it really should be this hard.

[votato]

(Yes, I’m down for lynching pi. Just not yet.)

Why?

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily. Just wanna talk. Hi again, btw.

I want to lynch pi because their early posts are incredibly scummy as NK15 and Homura have explained, and they haven’t yet done anything to make me reconsider that impression. I don’t want to lynch them yet because it’s still early in day one and I want to try and get reads on everyone else before lynching someone.

There's also the matter of Atarashi Hajimari that should be mentioned since they did have a couple of posts before votato took their spot. This is the only interaction Atarashi had before repping out. It's interesting that of all the players that Atarashi could have chosen to engage, it was Snowblaze, his partner, with whom he did. And, of course, we can talk about scum in newbies replacing out more often than Town also, which happened here.

as for the first part, why would that not happen in scum PT? especially if you're only gonna have one interaction. as for the second part, using replacing out as a reason to suspect someone is bad, and shows you have no real case on me. but its also empirically false. at least in recent months and years, the vast majority of replacements in newbies have been town slots.

[votato]

yesterday i say alora is locktown

Yesterday, you also said Midari was the Towniest player. You want to talk about the gambit you just ran in 2137?

cant

[votato]

im fine with waiting for a bit in this game so we can discuss it though. ive explained why i said midari was the towniest player. thanks for listening and complying and helping me solve the game, scum.

[votato]

ok polandball is over so we can discuss it now. i have to disappear for a couple hours, but ill be on later tonight to answer everything. AMA.

[votato]

i do wanna say that just because scum!me ran a gambit in that game doesnt mean town!me could never do so in this game. the gambits are totally different, anyway.

[votato]

yay! well done

[votato]

you won egix, dont worry

[votato]

im pretty sure i also won, unless you trolled me really hard by not hammering sooner.

[votato]

well played to you too alora, you made me nervous today. well done staying so under the radar