Can you explain what you mean by this?In post 21, 72offsuit wrote: Signalling leaving RvS pretty much defeats the purpose of what follows.
It's like telling someone, "don't worry, there won't be any side effects to this new medication, it's just a placebo".
I thought it was fairly obvious why I voted Italiano. Suspicious post + page 1 = vote and see how people react. What do you suppose my reason was?In post 27, GuiltyLion wrote:VOTE: UNOwen
I don't like 24, the whole thing feels awkward and he conveniently doesn't put his actual reason for voting Italiano into words - sneaky, sneaky
He voted the mod, minimizing engagement. If I had reasons beyond what DrPepper was clearly getting at I would have included them with my vote. It's not a slam dunk but definitely a better vote than random.In post 35, Ydrasse wrote:@unowen: what about italiano’s post made you think it was suspicious?
A bit of stretching is necessary this early on or I don't know how progress would be made.In post 38, Ydrasse wrote: not really, no. i feel that thinking it suspicious is a bit of a stretch, really — people in rvs are going to be a bit more silly/lighthearted until people start really scumhunting. that, and i'm of the opinion that mafia are more likely to come into this game with a serious attitude than something silly that draws attention to them.
Ah right that makes sense. It was a bit forced, but I think it was sincere in pushing things forward.In post 42, 72offsuit wrote: I'm saying DP's "Let's leave RVS" is LAMISTY and forced. Doesn't sound natural to me.
Some casual games on different forums many years ago. I'm pretty sure I ended up making an account here and played a game or two but I didn't stick around.In post 44, 72offsuit wrote:@ Everyone:
1) What is your experience with playing mafia?
2) Do you prefer playing town or scum?
3) What do you think of the Policy lynch of Lynch All Lurkers?
What do you make of Ydrasse, myself and now JT who also did this?In post 46, 72offsuit wrote:By the way, need more votes on Dunce.
Classic greeting-the-entire-thread scum tell:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490
Italiano + ThirteenthJTIn post 52, TheThirteenthJT wrote:Hey everyone. I'm coming in witH the two following questions that I would like all to answer please. Mostly for fun since it's so early in the game.
1) Random guess or analysis of what we have so far, take a crack at the scumteam. Who is the mafia team in this game?
2) If you were mafia in this game, who would you like to be your partner, or who would most likely be your partner.
Are you saying that you gut read Walter as scum independently or that you are gut reading him as DoctorPepper's most likely partner?In post 67, TheThirteenthJT wrote: I actually see two people right now on my suspect list but both are independent from one another. Yourself and DoctorPepper. Right now I would say Doctorpepper with Walterthedunce based on gut.
And for me I would partner with Ydrasse because they are the only one I've played with previously. It would be fun.
That introduction was weak considering how much there was in the game. The only post with content that might be revealing in that trio was the DoctorPepper vote and even that was empty as he stated it. A good contrast is piisirrational who was similarly poor but did not make an attempt to appear like he was contributing. He later expanded showing that he had put more thought into the game than it looked but I am not a fan of that either.In post 77, Ydrasse wrote:other than that:
unowen: why did you put jt as your second scum option? (58)
pii: who do you think is scum, if you think italiano's post is nai? (65)
guiltylion: why do you have the trs that you do? (63)
walter: why did you put doctorpepper as your second scum option? (69)
okay, i think i should be caught up now w the thread and i'll be around a bit to talk!
Scum-you would not think you were putting a target on your back.In post 79, ItalianoVD wrote:I have a question for my voters: DoctorPepper and UNOwen
Even though I am a noob to this version of the game and on this forum, it’s pretty normal and common in scumming/wolfing 101 to not bring any undue and unnecessary attention to yourself. It pretty much puts a target on your back. I don’t know the meta of this site yet, but that seems like something that will never change.
So my question is if I was scum what would be the benefit to me and/or my partner (whether they were a noob or experienced) to put such a blatant target on my back and possibly their back for attempting to “protect” me. If there is a benefit I don’t know about, that’s why I’m asking.
What is your thinking when deciding which of us is scummier?In post 85, ItalianoVD wrote: Oh man I knew I forgot someone. You were the other one that made the same point as the others, my mistake. I agree that it more than likely wouldn’t be both scum voting for me, so I’m leaning more towards UNOwen being scum than DoctorPepper. DoctorPepper being the SE though doesn’t rule out him out for me.
Walter I’m not sure of yet. I’m gonna go read all of his posts again and see if anything stands out.
This is a newbie game, I can see an experienced player making statements with more authority than they otherwise would (especially in the very early game) in order to get things moving. So the "Let's leave RVS" was forced but the motivation behind it came across as sincere and not an attempt to put on "town leader" hat.In post 103, 72offsuit wrote: Please elaborate on how something can be both forced, but also sincere?
Murder mysteries are fun, I enjoy trying to figure things out.
In particular I would like to hear what your opinion of JT is.In post 87, ItalianoVD wrote:After seeing the vote count I need to read everything again to see what JT did or said that has em at 2 votes.
I'm saying that you argued one of us was scum but not both and then voted DrPepper arbitrarily. Disregarding that the logic didn't hold up, it doesn't seem like a genuinely motivated vote because the only reasoning you gave was the early push which applies to both of us.In post 127, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Please quote me what further points you have made that you want me to analyze. I've seen Doctorpeppers and they have been swaying my mind on him making a genuine push. And I will respond to it when I have more time. I'm not clearing him in my mind but a feel a bit better than yesterday over him. While in turn I am feeling lower on you.
And if you link anything after my last post yesterday, this is a rather unfair point for you to make. I wouldnt thave been able to respond if I had not seen them.
VOTE: unowen
Yes I agree, you did not understand my point - I was not saying that you'd missed something, but that you hadn't appeared to look at all.In post 130, TheThirteenthJT wrote: I'm a bit confused here. Doesn't seem like the same question at all.
But I'll answer it. I can't vote two people at once so logic would say push one person until they've satisfied you or not then depending on that push the other. There are more reasons to vote DP first over you. One he was the first to mention the reason for his vote and two he is an SE. I'm sure as an SE he has seen this scenario before. If I can find a game were this happened with him before I can see if they reacted the same or different previously. I was satisfied with my early push on him and next is you on my list.
Was this prompted by TJ's post or were you already troubled by the lurker question?In post 133, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:VOTE: 72offsuit
I now upon a reread think that last question could be used by scum to change their play in a subtle way.
I would like to know your thinking on the last one and why it is important?
If town, my feeling is that it is a test, but a sloppy one, which, an experienced player would be able to better conduct in a better fashion.
This only adds to my scum read as it gives scum an easy out and ability to adjust.
on another note, Anyone else find it odd that piisirrational popped up answered 72's questions and then dissapeared.
In the post you refer to I said his perspective could be townie, but his play did not match up to what I would expect that perspective to yield. For example I would imagine that he would not have required prompting to vote. I also thought he'd be engaged with more of the thread, even if the conclusion was the same. Although in general I think it's good to try and imagine the town version of your suspects posts, even if you think that's not the case.In post 145, Ydrasse wrote: do you mean that doctorpepper has become a tr to you at this point? i just wanna clarify that since it seemed like you hadn't cleared him totally in 127. as for owen, i don't think the sheeping pinged me on his posts so much as the subsequent ones he made where he called them suspicious but didn't give the answer until asked. similarly, he didn't give a reason why he sr'd you until he was asked and threw down your name as to who he thought the scum were. (118)
even in that post, i don't get why he called the vote itself empty. also that, and 121 where he states that he's fine keeping his vote on italiano, but he can imagine a world where his actions are towny, and he also agrees with your wagon as well and supports it from a distance. so he's pretty low in my poe. the two other people who i consider pretty low in it are voting him though which.... i think there's at least one scum in {italiano, jt, owen}.
@owen: what do you think of italiano trying to interact with more people now and asking them questions/wanting clarity on things? and offering more of his opinions on other posters.
Not necessarily, it's something I'm wary of because of what I find trustworthy in a player and am likely to be fooled by. That's not what I was saying though. I think DoctorPepper was trying to lead the town out of RVS but I think that was because he wanted to progress the game and he is an experienced player among newbies, not so people would trust him more. "Town leader" hat being something only scum would wear, because true town leaders don't need to put on a hat.In post 149, 72offsuit wrote: Are you saying that you find trying to lead town as being scummy?
If you are town, do you think it is likely that two scum will double team you for a lynch on day one having previously not mentioned thinking you were scum?In post 159, TheThirteenthJT wrote: And I don't agree with your last point. When you are the highest vote count wagon, (l2) were to scum players could still be off wagon and come in and lynch you, you want to know where everyone stands on you in order to see progression vs random voting to join a wagon. Now if I have no votes and I'm going around asking everyone their opinion on me I can see that as scummy reaching for townpoints.
Well you asked me why scum-you would put a target on their back, I'm answering that scum-you wouldn't think they were putting a target on their back. You can say that's not how scum-you would act but it doesn't really help me because you could be lying.In post 188, ItalianoVD wrote: You and I both don't know this. Maybe scum you wouldn't think that, but you don't know what scum me would think and neither do I.
No, I no longer think it is likely that you and JT are scum together. I am struggling with his approach to the game but I doubt you would have twice called him out for voting with you if you were partners. The point you make about pi in your next post is a solid observation and not something I had picked up on, I was surprised to see that pi posted a read list as early as page 4 in that game. It would be good to hear his explanation for why he is now playing so passively.In post 188, ItalianoVD wrote: Do you still think that TTJT is my scum partner? Because I think maybe pii is yours.
What did you have in mind when you talked about a partner protecting you?In post 79, ItalianoVD wrote:I have a question for my voters: DoctorPepper and UNOwen
Even though I am a noob to this version of the game and on this forum, it’s pretty normal and common in scumming/wolfing 101 to not bring any undue and unnecessary attention to yourself. It pretty much puts a target on your back. I don’t know the meta of this site yet, but that seems like something that will never change.
So my question is if I was scum what would be the benefit to me and/or my partner (whether they were a noob or experienced) to put such a blatant target on my back and possibly their back for attempting to “protect” me. If there is a benefit I don’t know about, that’s why I’m asking.
I'd consider something like that as good as a confession, so I don't agree that it's a realistic possibility. Thank you for answering though.In post 198, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Well there are many variables to how things can go down. People can have quick turnarounds when wanting to join a wagon. They can go from defending a player to turn on them quick for various reasons. Sometimes when you have suspicions on someone you want to make sure you know where they stand to see if som something can become suspicious turnaround or gradual. So while it's not likely that two scum off wagon would jump into to quicklynch a player, the possibility exists and you want to make sure you cover some ground so it's not so much of a blindside. There also chance that one town one scum or two town decide to quicklynch a player on accident or as a play and it comes out of nowhere.
I'm sorry I'm posting after waking up not too long ago so I hope I'm not jumbling too much and that I've answered your question. I just might not have much time to post later.
I'm dwelling on it because I want to understand your thought process and you had not made clear a lot of it.In post 206, TheThirteenthJT wrote: So he brought in the initial suspicion on Italiano. While scum do tend piggyback on a wagon, it's also a possibility for them to drive a wagon. Since he was first to do this, he was first in my list of suspicious people. But like I said I have him out of my top read now so you dwelling on my DrPepper push feels like you are trying to divert away from my suspicion on you.
The only read he has given this game is on DoctorPepper, so it was a bit of a contrast. Next post refers to 190, where you talk about his activity level compared to the previous game.In post 208, ItalianoVD wrote: Why were you surprised about his list? And whatnext postare you referring to?
Ok, that's reasonable.In post 208, ItalianoVD wrote: This is what I wrote in 136. I wanted to answer those questions separately from the rest as it was more involved with the quotes and whatnot, etc.
I disagree, it's sensible to consider if your two scum suspects are a plausible team. Maybe not really useful to post but I was asked specifically on the point.In post 225, 72offsuit wrote: I really hate these early association analyses, of the form "player A is unlikely to be with player B"
From what I;ve seen to date, they tend to come from scum.
The pre-flip association analysis this early is giving me the vibe of awkward-scum faking contribution. Rarely does this speculation prove fruitful.
This is not a fair statement. Italiano asserted that he would not put a target on his back as scum, and the entire point is that we don't know that. Since I scum read him naturally I am looking at situations where he would do, the most obvious one being that he didn't think he was putting a target on his back.In post 225, 72offsuit wrote: I'm also disliking the "scum-you" would do X,Y and Z. Everyone plays scum differently. It seems really disingenuous to be making such sweeping generalisations of IVD.
Is this from experience or something?In post 241, DoctorPepper wrote:
Idk, I feel like this mentality comes more from town than scum
unvote
They won't be able to speak for pi so they won't be able to respond to the argument. It's like building a case against a dead man, it's a bit opportunistic. I don't disagree that pi's posts were UTR but GuiltyLion was not so extensive in justifying his previous votes so it struck out.In post 250, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:What makes you so certain the replacement will not respond?
I thought the scum team might have been you + GuiltyLion and wanted to keep the pressure on in case I was right. My suspicions of you both have lessened since then, so it's no longer something I'm interested in pursuing.In post 296, ItalianoVD wrote: See that's just it, I don't think you scumread me naturally. I think you piggybacked and now are trying to force it to be and not looking elsewhere. Who is my potential partner since you said you don't think it's TTJT anymore? Who are your scumreads at the moment?
Yes I know this was the explanation and I don't think it's a good one. Gut scum read is one thing, gut scum partner read when you don't individually suspect that person is more difficult to buy. As for rereading, what you choose to highlight during it is significant.In post 299, TheThirteenthJT wrote: I've answered your question he was mostly a gut read earlier and a bit of POE and potential partners and who I have less scum opinions on. Gut is a justification at times when it's early game. And regardless this was in relation to Drpeppers partner and not as individual scum suspect. My townlean changed because of how I interpreted his posts.and how I was moving away from DrPepper scum. And again you ignored me rereading. During regular play I was focused on answering questions while trying to see other points made by players. I can't catch everything. I am also not solo and have a team I should be listening too. I've noticed I'm lost in some people's reads so clearly I've missed things which is again why I'm going back through everything slower
That's fair actually, I misread that post.In post 300, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Again ignored my point. I never backed down. I made a point, 72 said he didn't see it so I replied with the contradiction a bit clearer. All game it's been like that. You keep picking and choosing to fluff your agrument against me which started when I was at 3 votes. You started trying to justify joining my wagon since then while keeping your vote on Italiano. Ready to jump ship if the Italiano wagon failed.
I've been following your point about survivalism since you first made it, hence why I asked him about his fear of quick lynch.In post 304, 72offsuit wrote: As someone who was scumreading TTJT earlier on in the game, why are you just agreeing with me regarding my post about TTJT being scum-survivalist now? I posted this back in 234 .
I feel like !townUno mindset here would have been to focus on posts pertaining to their scumread (TTJT). The section on TTJT in 234 went by with no comment til now.
I didn't mention, it was something I was looking at. Specifically the scenario of him and you being scum together. I think I was wrong about you, so some of that has fallen by the wayside. As far as reads: 72, Walter and now yourself are leaning town. JT is leaning scum. The rest are under observation to varying degrees.In post 307, ItalianoVD wrote: When did you mention that you thought GuiltyLion was scum? Only mention I see from you regarding GuiltyLion are in posts 167 & 202. As a matter of fact could you give us a reads list?
I'm not sure what you are referring to re: my reasons for scumreading him. I listed it as a reason just then.In post 309, ItalianoVD wrote: If that's something you noticed, why wasn't it one of your main reasons for scumreading him? And I wouldn't say that it was a backwards approach.
It is 100% clear from context why those things are different, and since you were doing a reread and I am your biggest scumread I don't believe you could have missed it.In post 325, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Next I got called out on asking for reads of myself as being scummy but also in post 57 he asks 72 for his reads on himself, Ydrasse and me.
You will have noticed that I said this was a misread. I can only imagine that choosing to persist with it is deliberate.In post 325, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Post 121 and 128 are what really strike me here. He groups himself with DrPepper and states I've been avoiding their posts besides my original post. This was posted a time that gave me no time to respond to some of the latest posts so it seemed opportunistic. He also stated that him and DrPepper had contributed more to the thread but his only posts at the time had been about the Italiano situation. I call him out on this and he changes his point.
Excluding the misread that I have already conceded: what words do you think I've unfairly represented?In post 325, TheThirteenthJT wrote: 297 is an example of him picking and choosing my words to what most benefits him. He had been doing the same to Italiano previously.
You say you were doing PoE, I wonder how you managed to PoE pi out of consideration to leave Walter as the only scum partner.In post 325, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Now more recently in 301 he says gut scum partner reading is bad. At the same he never held open suspicion for GuiltyLion but somehow grouped him with Italiano. Would that not also be a gut scum partner read? You also have to take into account how early in the game this was and I was also doing some POE. 312 mentions their previous suspicion of Italiano and guiltylion but all game he has me and Italiano as his scumreads. The only question I saw to guiltylion was his read on Italiano.
Ok, I see why you are saying this. I stand by my earlier point on quicklynching though.In post 325, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Also to respond, do I have a fear a quicklynch? Yes and you can read my last game why. It's not always a scum move and coming out of that game I am a bit wary of it.
I'm not sure why you separated this, they are the same argument.In post 325, TheThirteenthJT wrote: As to the second point I am doing my best here with what I see and your are discrediting me by saying that I'm simply guessing. Aren't we all in a way? Scum are the only ones who know for certain who town and mafia are.
As to the experienced player point I do want people to look at them. I want people to be wary of everyone. Last game I went after a player who was townread by most because I don't want to be blindsided. Maybe it's a bad trait and bad play on my end but I don't want people to get tok confident trusting everyone.
The GuiltyLion suspicion was dependent on you being scum, the primary reasons being his early game defence and then the way he voted against you. Because it was only valid if you were scum, it made sense to me not to immediately draw attention and instead observe both of you to see if there would be more evidence for my theory. I lost confidence in my scum read on you and so with it my main reasons for suspecting GuiltyLion.In post 328, ItalianoVD wrote:You know, I feel like TTJT is probably scum. Post 321 feels incomplete and forced. Nothing new really stands out from what they have already said. Their theory of at least one experienced player being scum was found to have holes in it. Their reads list is kind of mysterious and they seem to be unable or unwilling to pinpoint or solidify any real thoughts on anyone. Not really feeling good vibes from their recent posts.
With that said, I haven’t felt any better about UNOwen either. The biggest thing is them “scumreading” GuiltyLion, which they never actually did, but stated that they were “looking at it”. It’s a pretty big detail to leave out or not put down if that was/is your scumread and reasons why you were scumreading that person.
Not a fan of this post.In post 352, DoctorPepper wrote:Anyone care to explain TTJT as scum? I'm kinda town reading their posts because the UNOwen analysis makes sense to me
Doctor Pepper is inviting people to convince him to scumread JT, even though the reasons for that suspicion have been well discussed and he can surely make up his own mind. He "kinda" townreads JT, which is a noncommittal read if I've ever seen one. So weak resistance to JT wagon, but one that leaves plenty of room to back down. Then he says the analysis against me "makes sense". It's not clear what he means and it's not paired with a vote, so again vague and noncommittal but this time in support of the wagon against me.In post 371, ItalianoVD wrote:Can you both elaborate why? What stood out to you about that post?In post 369, 72offsuit wrote:Agreed.In post 367, UNOwen wrote:Not a fan of this post.In post 352, DoctorPepper wrote:Anyone care to explain TTJT as scum? I'm kinda town reading their posts because the UNOwen analysis makes sense to me
Why did you reply to a couple of posts from early game and then stop?In post 387, MiniMegabyte wrote:After going over the game again and skim reading everything, i still stick with what I have said in regards to my thoughts. I can see however how you may think i am trying to blend in with others to keep hidden and honestly if I was scum it wouldn't be a bad play until caught out. I am still sticking with TTJT being scummy as fishing for information with the questions being asked just doesn't seem right to me.
VOTE: TheThirteenthJT
Surely scumIn post 398, ItalianoVD wrote:I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? ScumIn post 395, DoctorPepper wrote: As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistakecouldsay it's a "mistake", but how likely?
Why are you deferring your vote choice to me/Walter?In post 424, GuiltyLion wrote: Which leaves TTJT/DoctorPepper which I think is the team. We have TTJT at 3 votes and DocPepper at 2, I don't see a point of switching right at this moment, but happy to go with DocPep if UNOWen/Walter prefer to go there.
The reason I asked is in the question. We had all committed the "greeting-the-entire-thread" scum tell but 72 was only pushing Walter on it.In post 426, TheThirteenthJT wrote: What I was stating with that point was simply, if thats a scum point for other players, I have not been the only one to do it. Do I presonally find it scummy? 50/50 The context is important. The same point may or may not apply to separate situations. Nothing is in a vacuum in this game. Did you ever explain why you asked?
That's not the misread I was talking about. My original point was that you entered the thread decided myself/DrP had 50/50 chances of being scum and then did not attempt to make any determination which of us it was before voting. I know that there were only a few posts at that point but I would have thought you'd use them as a starting point. As it was you voted purely on the 50/50 which by your own logic gave equal chance of being town: therefore not a genuine suspicion. Later you gave further reasoning for the vote but that did not appear when you were first challenged in 68.In post 426, TheThirteenthJT wrote: And me calling out Italiano to give me his read on me was also explained previously. I felt it was an inderect buddy attempt that would be called out by someone else had I not done because of my defence for him. I also asked for walter because he was the only other player left out of his reads besides me.
You stated you misread my point on Italianos bold play. 121 and 128 were not related to that.
He might feel that a Mini vote would look overly opportunistic.In post 435, 72offsuit wrote:I'm wondering why !scum TTJT wouldnt vote for mini
Why ask the people voting DrP how sure they are? Looks to me like JT is saying he'd be willing to hammer but wants to dodge responsibility.In post 468, TheThirteenthJT wrote:GL 72 Ydrasse and aaltee. How much are you willing to bet DP is scum? Like how sure are you from a 1-10. I won't be intenting to hammer until DP makes it clear he has caught up. Or we are under 24 hours.
In post 426, TheThirteenthJT wrote: What I was stating with that point was simply, if thats a scum point for other players, I have not been the only one to do it. Do I presonally find it scummy? 50/50 The context is important. The same point may or may not apply to separate situations. Nothing is in a vacuum in this game.Did you ever explain why you asked?
The reason is literally in the question. I can see scum JT noticing what they think is an easy point and not looking at the context, because his suspicion wouldn't be genuine anyway. I don't know how town JT misses this.In post 57, UNOwen wrote:What do you make of Ydrasse, myself and now JT who also did this?In post 46, 72offsuit wrote:By the way, need more votes on Dunce.
Classic greeting-the-entire-thread scum tell:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490
I asked because 72 wasn't random voting Walter, his previous post gave Walter scum points and I was calling out 72 for using a scumtell selectively.In post 540, TheThirteenthJT wrote: On the first point that's exactly what I'm getting at. Why would you be worried about how 72 read you in context. I know you Ydrasse and I all did newbie greeting the thread. I want you to explain why you would ask. For me I took as sometimes you need an rvs reason to vote someone and that's what 72 did here. He chose to push Walter and that was his choice. Similar at the end of the day I chose to vote DrPepper over you despite both of you doing the same reason. Internally I had more reasons to pressure him first over you. I really feel you and I are having a hard time seeing this point eye to eye.
There was still time left, as you yourself acknowledged. And you didn't state where you were on the wagon (in terms of whether you agreed with it or not), only that you were willing to hammer it.In post 542, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Tell me something Uno. Regardless of alignment what would have been the easy way for me to save myself day 1. Not sticking to my guns. I've had my people laid out on who I'm ok voting. I could have joined any other wagon and even hammered DrPepper if I wanted to. I want to take advantage of every last hour we have here day one when people seem to be all over the place.
The only reason I was ok intending to hammer was due to time. Would you prefer a no lunch. Obviously I wanted to state where I was at on that wagon while I was still on. One I'm not particularly fond off but will vote if it comes down to it.
Ok, that's fair enough.In post 550, GuiltyLion wrote: This was the VC at the time that I said that - modified to include Ydrasse's vote in 423:I don't believe in UNOwen or Walter lynches. You and Walter were the main active townreads who may have switched to DoctorPepper instead of Thirteenth. I'm still fine with Mini too but that wagon didn't have any momentum behind it. I guess I could have mentioned Italiano too, but IIRC he indicated at some point he preferred the TTJT lynch.In post 412, Micc wrote:
Bolded holds regardless.In post 202, UNOwen wrote:In post 198, TheThirteenthJT wrote: Well there are many variables to how things can go down. People can have quick turnarounds when wanting to join a wagon. They can go from defending a player to turn on them quick for various reasons. Sometimes when you have suspicions on someone you want to make sure you know where they stand to see if som something can become suspicious turnaround or gradual. So while it's not likely that two scum off wagon would jump into to quicklynch a player, the possibility exists and you want to make sure you cover some ground so it's not so much of a blindside. There also chance that one town one scum or two town decide to quicklynch a player on accident or as a play and it comes out of nowhere.
I'm sorry I'm posting after waking up not too long ago so I hope I'm not jumbling too much and that I've answered your question. I just might not have much time to post later.I'd consider something like that as good as a confession, so I don't agree that it's a realistic possibility. Thank you for answering though.
When you get the chance I would appreciate an answer to my question in 162 as well.
Well I wasn't thinking too deeply about it, just my initial reaction. Having considered I think my reaction was right though. 72 doesn't take that kind of risk unless he thinks his partner is well positioned to win the game, and my first instinct is that would be you. DoctorPepper is not worth considering. Italiano and Walter I think are town but I don't think they would fit anyway. Mini - not a chance. However Ydrasse is also a potential partner that didn't occur to me until rereading. Italiano raised a good point in 682, since at end of day Ydrasse seemed to be favouring DrP/JT as the scum team.In post 689, GuiltyLion wrote: IMO both these twilight shades were ugly
I would like both of you to explain why exactly you think scum!GL and scum!72 have any kind of need to coordinate a quickhammer there. I know it may not mean much coming from me, but I believe scum quickhammers on D1 are tremendously bad play unless you're absolutely sure you've got the PR (even then, it's a gamble that can easily sink you), and I really don't see how you think TTJT was such an urgent need to remove that our hypothetical team would need to trash my good standing as well as 72's in order to secure THAT specific D1 mislynch.
72's push against DrP was uneccessary from a scum perspective, unless he bought in to the "softing" talk in which case he was aggressively pr hunting. That's not a way to play when your partner is everyone's compromise lynch.In post 690, GuiltyLion wrote:IMO either Mini is 72's partner and he felt the need to make a desperation Hail Mary turbohammer D1 because he knew the team was absolutely screwed if he got lynched D1
Not sure why this is odd, the point was straightforward and I agreed with it. Your explanation is that you reconsidered after 72 hammered, which doesn't seem all that coherent (if someone is getting townier and townier, but it takes the person they were pushing against scumclaiming for that to be obvious, then they weren't getting townier and townier). I know you have said you were thinking his posts had improved anyway and just didn't have the opportunity to mention it but I can only take your word for that.In post 710, Ydrasse wrote: for owen i have to reread, because i don't remember him ever making a push on me and i don't understand why he's saying that i'm one of two required partners for 72,and instead saying that you brought up a good point and then not offering his own opinions from the reread that he did. his response to guiltylion in 695 seems deflective of the pressure put onto him imo without giving reasons.
If we take this hypothetical and say 72 feels the situation is desperate, I don't know why he decides to kamikaze himself instead of attempting to throw Mini under the bus - something he had already set up. We are agreed he is a strong player, even if he was under pressure do we really think he decides Mini is the better bet to win the game than he is?In post 744, GuiltyLion wrote: I guess as a starting point, UNOwen I want to get more of your thoughts on this. Are you really comfortable totally ruling out Mini as a partner based on this logic? I get where you're coming from and I've been thinking much the same way, but I think I still have hesitation in that if his partneristhe compromise lynch and now he's perceiving that he's losing a 1v1 with DP - what if he felt the loss was inevitable if he was hammered yesterday and hence he took the first opportunity to guarantee survival for at least one more day?
Day 1 ended in a way that I was so sure wouldn't happen that I actually suspected JT for entertaining the possibility, so I'm aware that I need to keep an open mind. However I am confident in my logic here and I am confident it is either you or Ydrasse.In post 744, GuiltyLion wrote: I know I'm assuming the conclusion there instead of showing why the evidence supports the conclusion, but I don't know if I want to completely rule out the plausibility of 72/Mini pairing solely on the idea that 72 would have slow played it a little more in that case. You seem to be saying you are willing to do that, and that you'd chain eliminate Ydrasse and myself back to back, and I want to know if you don't have any doubts/uncertainty about that
I don't know the answer to your question, but I don't think it is as significant as you suggest. Both myself and JT were "scumreads" whereas pi was just a lurker. So there's a logic to the post even if he was faking it. I see what you are saying, that he was keeping pi on the table but out of the limelight. I'm not convinced that is the obvious motivation behind the post.In post 745, GuiltyLion wrote: I'm also kinda suspicious again here by him ultimately evolving from a {TTJT/Uno} pool to a DoctorPepper push - while also being open to voting pi/Sera without explicitly putting them in an elimination pool. Again, would like to see if you agree on this UNOwen - if you're town and I'm scum, why does he categorize pi/Sera separately rather than just having a three person elimination pool?
I might just be tired but I don't understand what you're saying in the bolded - could you rephrase that?In post 746, GuiltyLion wrote: I think a plausible explanation for the DP push is this (assuming a scum!Mini partner): 72 noticed that both scum were on a wagon on town, and got nervous abouthow this was not setting them up well for D2 as townies tend to look for at least one scum on-wagon, and two of the off-wagon slots (Ydrasse/Walter) were very widely townread.Thus, by starting a push on DP, he either shifts attention away from TTJT (which leads to TTJT being a viable elimination candidate later in the game if DP wagon goes through), or he sets himself up to push DP again on D2 and also for townies to make themselves look worse by piling on TTJT past this point.
Maybe. You only said he was getting "townier", but the thread-locking concern is a reasonable point.In post 752, Ydrasse wrote: @owen: i don't understand how my stance isn't coherent? DP's presence and content improved as the day goes on but not so much where i am sold on him not being scum. 72's hammer gives me a whole new perspective on their 1v1. i don't see these two things as exclusive concepts, i guess?
maybe it's the choice of saying "townier and townier" because that probably does imply a certain amount of strength to it? post-hammer i was just trying to type out my thoughts then and there so the thread didn't get locked midway through a post.
What do you think of my argument about why 72-Mini is an unlikely scum team?In post 765, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:To me the other potential scum could be mini or unowen, with 72 being one of them.
However, if 72 is town then my reads are off.
I plan to do a reread but need to find the time.
Docpepper is town along with jt now.
He has not claimed yet.In post 786, MiniMegabyte wrote: Okay well ignore my next post then as I think I understand. Has 72 claimed yet?
Do you have any suggestions on this topic?In post 777, DoctorPepper wrote: But the thing is, why waste a day of discussion when we can talk about who else could be scum?